The Camel and Needle: Did Scholars Mistranslate Jesus's Famous Saying?
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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Mark 10:25 says: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." This is one of the most famous sayings of Jesus. But did we translate his saying correctly?
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You cant take everything in the bible as literal. Thats dogma which is a sin. You gotta use your mind do you really think jesus would say rich ppl cant go to heaven? His own grandfathers were very rich like king solomon. Use discernment
Great content, this makes for great dinner talk.
ua-cam.com/video/z0fm_8clgRM/v-deo.html
@@derekstaroba I agree if the bible is taken not as the word of a god but only as a piece of literature, where everybody can use their minds to imagine what the writer supposed to mean. I agree by the way, but I'm aware a huge amount of people would fiercely disagree with us. And that's the context of religions and ideologies or fans in sports, one is not expected to use the mind, only the instinct of human behaviour when feeling part of the masses, feeling the need to eliminate all those that pretend or seems to be different.
Lol you fit the camel in the eye of the needle by looking at the camel from a distance while looking through the eye of the needle
I mean... the saying immediately follows Jesus telling a rich man to sell all his stuff and give all his money to the poor; I don't think there's any ambivalence about what he meant by it.
*ambiguity?
I always thought that it meant that everyone in Heaven is equal. Meaning there is no rich or poor people in Heaven, everyone there is the same.
It is vital to consider such sayings in context, as you point out. Well done!
@@sneakylemon8513 Wow the worst word choice nitpick I have ever seen.
@@Curious_Traveler No it isn't.
“The ancient saying ‘the day pigs fly’ actually intended very plump, almost flightless pigeons humorously called ‘pigs’ in those remote times because of their appearance.” I can almost hear far-future English scholars arguing the point.
I first encountered this saying in college in the US. We don't have an equivalent saying in my language. The funny thing is that when I heard it the first time I completely couldn't figure out what the point was. I was an aerospace major. We could fly pigs any day.
@@andrewsuryali8540 We do have the saying in Argentina but with cows instead of pigs.
a long time ago there was something floating around the internet about all sorts of funny fake etymologies of sayings.
like "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" dated from an era when making hot water was laborious and time consuming, so the whole had to take turns in their pecking order in the same bathtub with a month's worth of grime. by the time the baby was washed, the water was so murky, it would be easy to accidentally throw the baby out with the bathwater.
They would then refer to collection of ancient works of literature by the name of "Harry Potter", in which a girl names her messenger owl "Pigwigeon" and another character shortens to "Pig". The presence of this literary reference would provide evidence for this hypothesis
I want a pig pigeon now. They sound adorable and squishy ❤️
The thing is in those days, safety was found in the gates of cities. To avoid a city being ambushed they closed the city gate leaving only a small gate which entrance was shaped like a eye of a needle, those seeking safety had to completely unpack their camel in order to fit through the eye of the needle
We were taught in Mormon Sunday School that there was a palm tree formation called the "eye if the needle" through which a camel could pass but only on its knees so they taught that the rich man could only enter the kingdom of heaven through prayer. I'm no longer a believer but it's this kind of farfetched thinking that appealed to my oh so eager mind.
It's a place in the desert....
Rich people in hell be like: "I thought getting to heaven was as easy as a rope going through a gate!"
😂
Rich people turning up to the pearly gates holding a giant needle and threading rope through it.
🤷♀️😅
I can see Trump holding a Bible upside down at the gates.
Kind of pointless to say, in that case.
I had heard the gate theory back in CCD as a child, with the teacher really emphasizing that "it is supposed to mean difficult, not impossible. Jesus wasn't saying that you shouldn't try to be rich." Interesting how interested some people are in "softening" this message. ;-)
I was taught this too (though my teacher heavily implied it might be rich people cope!) To be fair to both Jesus and your teacher, he didn't say it was impossible. He says for man it is impossible, but for God all things are possible; the implication being that only those who dedicate themselves to God have a chance, and it is at His will. Also, logically, if you are rich, and give up your wealth, then you are poor, and now can enter the Kingdom of God.
But you are right that over the years there has been a big incentive to soften that particular message. There are a lot of rich churches!
Well if it means impossible than Jesus effectively has to damn most of the Old Testament prophets as most of them were rich
@@DManCAWMaster citation needed. first hurdle is demonstrating most of them existed at all. have fun
@@DManCAWMaster What evidence is there in the Tanakh for most of its prophets being rich?
The next verses make it clear that All people can only be saved by a miraculous act of God, none of us are un-rich enough to save ourselves
Very interesting. I remember hearing in church as a child that the phrase referred to a sort of narrow geological feature or something like that, that required having the camel kneel. The pastor explained that the reference was to how famously stubborn camels were, and that most people traveling with them would be forced to turn back in parallel to the story of the rich man who asks Jesus how to be saved and turns back in dejection. However, I think that the saying being that it is something impossible makes more sense in context of the ensuing verse that it is only possible through God.
If you hear anybody reciting this story again the only proper response is 9:18
It's funny how every rich or aspiring rich person hearing this will just think "oh, I'm a Christian, I'm one of the good ones, that doesn't apply to ME!" Of course, it's just all those other heathen rich people that Jesus is talking about. They can sleep easy at night, Jesus loves them no matter how much they love money
Well done. Growing up in below “poverty level” family, I found it easy , biased, to see the message against rich folks….but decades later I understand it differently now. None of us can enter the kingdom of God, none can be born again but by the mercy of God and a move on our heart by the Holy Spirit…. Having wealth in this world only adds more distraction from our utter sinful state.
Likewise I agree with your sentiment . For over 60 years people try to put their own meaning to anything wrote down in Bible . With over 100 Denominations in what people call Christians or unlimited Bible texts from King James to Catholic to NIV to many more . All have some variations different & words changed to interpretations people want to live how they do or choose . Entering Heaven can be easy & is not what we want to live but how we choose too.
Or... Rich people are people that gather wealth while the poor suffer, so they are just bad people and thus can't get into heaven. Just our basic empathy can see that it is wrong for some people to be so rich while they give nothing for the suffering of others, I don't have any Christian upbringing, but even I can understand and agree with this saying by Jesus, which means it doesn't require the understanding of Christian theology to make sense.
We should still take their excess wealth. Billionaires should not exist
@@patriot9487 Wrong , To say those who have wealth taken away & given to Slackers who waste any idea of bettering themselves is Stupid . Solomon was said to have more wealth or assets than anyone in History yet at no time was it said it should all be taken away . In fact Solomon gained more & more . Yea , I think it was meant that people should help their Neighbor but never to give most to a person who slacks & wants handouts .
@@Kholdaimon Wrong , as a black child who grew up in the project told he would never amount to anything because being Black , in a home with no Father & a Mom who worked scrubbing floors a Boy grew into a Man & became foremost Neurosurgeon . His Name was Ben Carson who even ran for POTUS . Any poor child with a dream can accomplish what they choose if they try . Being lazy & dumb is the reason some don't advance . Get off your pity party .
Idk why but the camel stats and the neutron star thing made me laugh so much. There's just something so funny about somebody dryly explaining why a camel can't fit through the eye of a needle.
I laughed hard too. the seriousness and historical accuracy to explain something so obvious was "seriously" funny. 😅😂
Kind of gave me Half as Interesting vibes
Well, rich people have nevertheless been trying for about 2000 years now. 😜
Do you think R4B watches Kurzgesagt?
Dr. Henry’s comedic timing is perfect and always has been.
"Seriously, go check your favorite Aramaic dictionary."
And it was at this moment that I knew I was not as scholarly as the general audience of this video.
Exegesis within exegesis! I assumed this was a bit of a joke as all three dictionaries were written by the same person and therefore not likely to contradict each other!
My favorite one is not a physical book but an internet site called "the CAL", so I felt the same.
I'm a retired librarian, and yes I have reference books at home, and yes some are for Biblical study ... but I overlooked getting an aramaic dictionary. I lost it!!
And all from the same guy, which was hilarious. I guess he really nailed it on the 3rd edition.
or go ask a Chaldean, for a simpler option
Weirdly, I heard an priest say that the 'eye of the needle' referred to a specific kind of pointed arch over a gateway that for some reasons camels hated and would buck and spit rather than pass through. The idea was that some archways were deliberately designed to exploit a psychologic fluke of the camels to keep pack animals out of certain areas of the city.
What about pine needle.....eye....pineal....place where Jacob wrestled God....face of God.
Yes, I heard of that too where the camels actually had to get down on their knees and crawl through the arched gateway it was so small....on the silk road somewhere near the ocean I believe.
@@karenmmcthreeno
That was my understanding.
9:19
I've been a Christian for 58 years and have heard this passage discussed as metaphor versus reality many, many times. Always I've wondered at the tendency of mere such speculation to distract from the broader meaning, and further, to take one's focus off the speaker, Jesus. He was pointing out the difficulty of prioritizing things of God over things of the world, like wealth or power. He didn't say it was impossible, just harder, and He could have said it differently; harder for a ship to sail a small creek, harder for a man to enter into his mother's womb and be reborn (Oh, He did, didn't he?), harder for a mature tree to uproot itself and move to another location, harder for a blind man to pint a landscape, etc. His point would still be the same. This endless parsing of words is exactly why I left seminary 50 years ago in pursuit of a more authentic walk with Jesus.
"He didn't say it was impossible," what? He compared it to getting a huge thing through a tiny hole. That is literally impossible.
@@brianfarley4814 Nickle/dime.
Ive always imagined there's a rich guy somewhere on the planet who's been researching methods to pass a camel through a needle eye... he's got graphs, equations, and a whole team of world class scientists and mathematicians working around the clock... they've been able to successfully pass a llama, but the camel is still wildly out of reach 🤣
@Tut Dvd Your prejudice is showing. Jews don't believe in Jesus. Only Christians care about what Jesus says.
That's funny. Like they've spent millions of dollars trying to figure out how to do it.
@@BleedingBasco some Jews do care about Jesus- they are called Messianic Jews.
Also, all of the original Christians were Jewish; they believed the Messiah had come but didn't stop their Jewish beliefs or traditions.
@@davidm4566 The Christain bible is just the Jewish Scriptures (now commonly known as the Old Testament) with the scriptures of Jesus as the Messiah (New Testament) added on. They are the same God with the same beliefs about that God.
The main difference between Jewdiasm, Messianic Jewdiasm, and Christianity is their stance on Jesus and their traditions stemming from that.
Jesus was Jewish, as were his followers. The split to Messianic Jews stems back to the apothles, and was that they believed Jesus was the Messiah coming to give them salvation. They were essentially the first Christians, but held the Jewish traditions. Jews, as most people refer to today, do not believe Jesus was the Messiah.
The step from Messianic Jewdaism to Christianity was a slower process, and came with dropping the Jewish traditions and gradually coming to the belief of the Holy Trinity. Whereas God and Jesus are the same being.
Messianic Jewdaism pretty much died out, then began again in the 1800s by focusing on just the scriptures (both new and old) to get back to that place of practicing Jewish traditions while also believing Jesus was the Messiah.
@@davidm4566 In short I agree with you on most of it, but not about Messianic Jews being what people refer to when they say Jews.
Edit: Corrected a spelling error.
Jesus: "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven"
Rich people and prosperity gospel preachers: "WELL HE DID NOT ACTUALLY MEAN THAT"
But literally everything else is literally also literal. Except that. I have to keep all my money. And never give it away. Even to Cesar. Or sell everything I own, give the money to the poor and follow Jesus. Nah. Everything He said about money was figurative, but everything else is literal.
The problem is the OT literally says God's people are wealthy a bunch of times.
Not to mention the Kingdom of God was literally a Kingdom and to come at Jesus time so... So no one (rich or poor) ever entered it anyway lol
Osteen's Bible has no fingerprints on any page
Thru the lord all things are possible so jot that down
To see the Pharisees' yeast doing fine today. To check out the yeast of gold rotting the hearts of people.
Blessed be thee, untouched by true corruption, so normalized today.
Interesting to see most churches fighting over scraps, seeking power, weilding lies...
Fascinating to witness the distortion of our lord thus far, heavily supported with phariseic reading of the old scripture.
Great to see the contrast between the dead sea scrolls and the _codex vaticanus_ we call the "version of the 70 greeks"
And to see the message twisted, the love for god handled by wolves as it was written, the angular stone rejected, churches causing secularization of society. An imperial collapse.
WILL WE ONE DAY TAKE THE ROAD OF RADICAL HONESTY AND RADICAL LOVE THAT OUR LORD DEMANDED FROM US??
Wilst thee choose life? Or continue down the path of _D E A T H_ ?
I thought this had to do with the camel going through the man sized gate in the city wall called the eye of the needle. The camel would have to have all of it's cargo removed and then crawl on it's knees to get through. Definitely a suitable metaphor for a rich man who is attached to his possession and status.
This is answered at 9:45
Niiiiceee!!! My thought is if our Lord is so gracious! We don’t need to waste “precious” time being matter-of-fact; as long as we understand the principle?
Elaborate please
This is what I was taught as a child
No it’s a literal needle
Fascinating! 2 of my favorite topics, linguistics and religion study, in one video. I love it :)
I learned at school in Norway that it was a gate in Jerusalem called "the camel`s eye". This made the saying completly meaningless, it was very confusing.
This is like that child's game , Telephone. Every detail gets totally scrambled over the course of time.
I guess it needs the extra context that the camel had to shed its load to pass through (like a rich person giving up their wealth) to make total sense. I suppose that context was left out by rich people looking to reinterpret the passage!
I have also heard this interpretation many years ago. It came from teaching from a Baptist seminary, so I took it with a grain of salt.
I can't recall where I read it , but yes the gates to Jerusalem were known as ' eyes of the needle ' . Camels were not allowed past those gates . You only have to look at the teachings and lives of saints of all traditions were obviously anti materialism when done for its own sake 🕊️
That's what I was taught by multiple Christian denominations here in the US
I think people's reaction to this statement and the attempt to undermine its message just proves Jesus' point even more: those with wealth are so concerned with keeping it that they will do just about anything, including damn themselves.
Even to the point of blasphemously rewriting the teachings of their own god. Their arrogance is astounding.
@@Serai3 Wealth is addiction. I have had a time of prosperity in life, it was the worst era of my life. Wealth requires you to be involved in all of the mortal sins in order to keep that status. We can use the example of Epstein.
Jesus straight up said that if you allow poverty and suffering to persist without doing what you can to alleviate it, he will take that as if you had refused to help him and leave you to your fate. And somehow these people think Jesus was going to cut the rich some slack.
@@alhassani626 Yes, exactly. They didn't have the concept of addiction as we have it, but I think that's what Jesus was getting at. "It's not his money; it's HIM." :)
@@alhassani626 "We can use the example of Epstein."
Or the long long list of catholic clergymen involved in the ongoing childabuse scandals where even the pope himself helped to protect the guilty.
Chruch = rich = doesn't care about justice.
These are fantastic. Keep up the great work
During religious instruction in high school, We were told this was a metaphor. Threading the eye of the needle was an ancient siege tactic. Soliders would remove the blocks in the city's wall and attempt entrance that way. Yes you can get a camel through, but it is difficult.
Our pastor told us in a sermon that the 'eye of the needle' was a gate into Jerusalem where a laden camel wouldn't fit so, you had to unload the camel to get it through. He said rich people have to unload themselves of their love of riches to get through the gate of Heaven.
Did he say if they get to take up their love for riches again once they enter, just like the camel in this scenario is probably laden with all the stuff again once it is inside the gate?
@@yllejordi would think that if they unloaded the camel before going through, they would have to leave their riches on the other side, and not be able to go back for them.
@@karollisa7022 I think Jesus was better at parables than this mess. It's not about a gate. Simple as that.
Quite simply he said it would be "easier" because a man, alone, not laden with goods can pass through the small needle gate where one with a camel loaded with posessions would find it extremely difficult, if not impossible.
Jesus made a plain as day statement to the people of the time.
If we would learn about the time and culture in which He lived, many of these things would be just as obvious to us.
@@yllejord No because the city guards would not allow the small gate to remain open while he unloaded it. He had to make a choice, enter and leave the camel with all his goods outside, or stay with his goods outside the safety of the city walls.
The original meaning definitely throws a huge wrench in prosperity doctrine. Completely understandable why that would be a popular interpretation as the church enjoys so much wealth.
The give every thing to the poor and following Jesus and holding all things in common and multiplying in numbers daily also mess it up.
@@Sunflowrrunner not really, Tithes consolidate the power of the church over people, just like your God doesn't want intelligent people.
While I generally agree, Christianity (as a movement) had--at least by the time of Paul--accepted the patronage of the wealthy was valuable for its growth. While many Protestant and Evangelical communities today extol an "Acts 2" community, Paul's discourse letters clearly show that the wealthy play a role in supporting the movement's growth at large.
In general, Christianity has a challenge of practicality for maintenance of the organization (i.e., paying bills) and idealism which truely commits to the jist of Christ's demands.
@@jdmbapastor5172 That's probably because Jesus' idea of "The Church" doesn't jive with an actual, organized church either.
Prosperity doctrine is Mammonism
The medieval annotation makes so much sense. They can get in, but by setting aside their possessions, and being humble
This was very informative thank you.
Shocking that a number of elite scholars, who were often the descendants of royalty, would seek to blunt the force of Jesus' condemnation...
It isn't condemnation but instead a point of faith as it symbolizes what is impossible for a human is possible for God. God is more powerful than a neutron star and can keep the camel alive to boot.
Its not a condemnation, and your argument as to the scholars' class is badly flawed.
"elite scholars, who were often the descendants of royalty" - that gave me a laugh.
@@kerwinbrown4180
What would the point of the text be if not to condemn the hoarding of wealth? This is not the only passage where Christians are told give away their money for salvation. The way you're describing it is like, "Greed is bad but that doesn't matter, because Jesus loves you." But Jesus is the one telling people to give their worldly possessions to the poor.
@@benjamintillema3572 You are talking of a Jewish Rabbi teaching his student-adherents. Jews have no problem with the pursuit of wealth but they do have a problem with idolatry. Paul of Tarsus teaches his students that the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. That is idolatry and is a grave sin to the Jewish that Jesus was teaching. If you read further down in the account to the following verse in Luke 25 the disciples ask "Who then can be saved" which reveals the disciples understood the "rich man" to mean all humans. Jesus answered with "What is impossible with man is possible with God".
I bought into the whole "it was actually rope not camel" theory until today. I'm always happy to be proven wrong, thank you and great video :)
But what will make if the intention is the same, rich ppl doesn't go to heaven
Don't be so sure. The Gospel texts were initially written in Greek, likely by Greek authors for predominantly for Greek audiences.
I had never actually heard the theory, but I admit it has at least some theological appeal. A rope can be pared down to a single thread to pass through the eye of a needle. Likewise, one is tempted to believe Jesus would have someone in His kingdom who was a formerly rich person who gave up their wealth to follow Him.
But if the word just isn't there -- and it isn't in the earliest texts -- then it just isn't there.
The rich being barred from heaven is consistent with Jesus philosophy.
A rich man asked how to folow Jesus,. Reply 'give all your wealth to the poor'
About money, 'give to Caesar what is Caesar's' implying that earthly wealth does not belong to those seeking the kingdom of heaven.
The sermon in the mount is perfectly clear about posessions as well.
Conclusion: Jesus was completely focused on relying on God for everything, and had strong contempt for earthly wealth and security.
Take it as you will, but you will have to bend over backwards to match earthly posessions wirh his philosophy
@@celsus7979 But what if the rich man gives too much money to the poor, making them rich and therefore condemning them?
Actually he was referring to the one of the gats of Jerusalem that was designed so that to pass through you had to make a sharp turn similar to a sheep gate in a field that livestock can't navigate but a two legged animal can. The gate was to stop horse soldiers from invading and it was commonly called "The Eye of the Needle."
I heard the gate theory when I was a Christian, and it does make sense. Many fortifications had small doors people could use during a siege. For a camel to fit through such a door, it would have to kneel down, which is quite difficult for a camel to do while walking. The message I learned from it was one of humility. The idea was that wealth often accompanies arrogance and it would be harder for a rich man to truly and earnestly humble himself and kneel before god than for a camel to kneel to get through such a gate.
This is the poise I take.
Then who can be saved ? With man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible
@@jwsanders1214 - It's a good thing no one needs saving then.
@@hollyhartwick3832 sounds like you haven’t come to the realization that you are a sinner .
“ God did not send his Son to condemn the world, but that through him the world might be saved “ John 3:17
@@jwsanders1214 - Why do you evangelicals always assume people don't know about your religion? I was a Christian for 25 years, a Bible scholar, an apologist, and went to university with the intention of entering the ministry. I know full well what the Bible says and I know full well that it's, and this is being generous, unreliable. You're wasting your time preaching at the majority of non-Christians. We know what Christianity is about, and we aren't buying what you're selling. Do yourself a favour and take it somewhere else. Sin is defined as an offense against god. You can't offend someone who doesn't exist. As such, sin doesn't exist.
I'm really glad you didn't leave out the part where Jesus says, "With man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible." That was a big part of His point.
I agree. We even see what the rich young man that he is justified before the more radical call to give up everything that he owns. He asks what he must do to be saved in Jesus tells him. The man wants more and Jesus invites him to a more radical following, personally, I think Jesus was inviting him to become an apostle. Power corrupts and wealth is a form of power. The only way for a rich man avoid corruption is to open his heart to the Lord and allow the Lord to guide him. Thus, I don't think it's impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, but I do think it's quite difficult for people with lots of possessions and wealth and power to rely on God and requires the grace of God to accomplish. We All must do this of course, but I think it's harder for someone with lots of wealth and power to humble himself. Just my opinion.
Kenneth Copeland would agree. More money
"With man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible." That was a big part of His point.
That was THE point. One of the Apostles asks "Then who can be saved?" Then Jesus replies the part about With man it is not possible but with God EVERYTHING is possible. A sinner like me can be saved whether we are talking about a large animal or a large piece of rope passing trough the eye of a needle.
If the person who put up the video had simply mentioned this to begin with, the video would have only been about one minute long.
Same. I heard ppl use the needle verse since I was little. At a church I heard the "through God all things are possible" quote and used it as a counter. Had no idea they were connected till high-school.
Christ is the way, the truth, and the light. Through Him all things are possible. My understanding is if you try to use your money to get into heaven instead, you will fail. And it's speaking against the "money can buy anything" belief.
@@dcw56 It's good to take a scripture and get its entire meaning. There is a lot more there than just that nothing is impossible for God, and that anyone can be saved (which is two points right there). There is also the nuance of considering that the riches of this world are not the Way, and that you can get tangled up in them if they are your focus, kind of like the thorny ground in the Parable of the Sower. Plus, looking at the culture, and manners and customs of the time, can help you get a better picture of the heart of what is being said, and why it is being said. I don't want a one-minute view of the scriptures; I want to dig in and get the complete meaning.
The "easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle..." phrase has always been a favorite of mine. If I may remind you again, you have deaf viewers (like me) that need subtitles for better understanding of what's being said in your videos. I struggled to listen with powerful hearing aids to catch most of what you said, and sometimes I managed to lip-read whenever you show your face, but not always. I am grateful, by-the-way, that you do speak clearly, and you enunciate your words well for me to lip-read. This message will probably get lost in this comment section since already 1,751 viewers posted their comments. Hopefully, you will see my message someday.
Why not get a cochlear implant?
@@serronserron1320 I am a Christian minister who has worked in the Deaf community for over 20 years can i point out that cochlear implants do not work for everyone. They work better when implanted early - and while sometimes helpful for many people , for others they simply don't work or are disappointing
@@serronserron1320 Well, yeah, I guess complex and expensive surgery is an alternative to just not turning off the auto generated subtitles
co-signing this. I'm not hearing impaired but I do have ADHD, which makes my auditory processing Not Amazing, and on top of that I often watch UA-cam videos in slightly noisy environments like in the kitchen or in the shower. subtitles are really important!
@@alligatrix How do you watch videos in the shower without getting the appliances water saturated?
Thanks. This came up in my feed and I ignored it for quite a while believing it would be info that was slanted to a particular religion. When you gave the proposed Hebrew/Aramaic camel-rope theory, I had an Ah-ha moment as I am very familiar with both. But then you gave more to it, I was delighted at your scholarship. Thanks for such a wonderful explanation.
He has a lot of really good informative videos with no agenda!
Excellent treatise! Thank you! Just subscribed
I like how Chesterton put it:
“If you use your imagination, and shrink the camel as small as possible, and enlarge the needle as much as you can, in other words, if you take Christ’s words to mean the least that he could have meant, then the least thing that Christ was saying, is that; rich men are not all that trustworthy.” 😀
I get that. But just hear me out first.
Me: continues to confuse by explaining......
Somehow the guy in the video totally misinterprets this famous passage by not reading the rest of the discussion. It is clear from that the rich (and nonrich) can go to Heaven by an act of God.
However, the hyperbole by Jesus should not be explained away but meditated on.
I recommend Soren Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling for a discussion of the hyperbole by Jesus and why we should really study them and take their effects super seriously.
@@OnTheThirdDay I think the presenter is focusing too narrowly on translation and grammar of older languages…missing the forest for the trees.
@@KbB-kz9qp Agreed. However, if one is to do a proper analysis of a text, one should start with reading it in context beifre trying to reread it differently.
I don't like to "call out" people and say they aren't trustworthy, but it is a reminder to keep in mind that even if someone makes good arguments about something then they might be very incorrect elsewhere.
A person can be very trustworthy in life, and a monster spiritually. Al Capone kept his word as an example. It is more an issue of being attached to worldly things and not spiritual principles.
When I was still a Christian, I remember teaching a a Sunday School lesson to young kids about this parable. The resources the church gave me were all about the second interpretation. It had images of a camel, loaded with cargo trying to squeeze into a small gate. It probably did have the intended meaning to soften the impossibility of the task and allow for rich people to simply give up some of their wealth. I see now how it takes away the radical nature of what could have been the original. I find it sad that an interpretation based on no evidence at all is still taught and believed in modern Christian circles. Whether the original meaning was about a camel or a thick anchor rope, the imagery of that interpretation is quite clear - the task is not just extremely difficult but *impossible* Thanks for the video!
Someone (many someones) didn't read their Bible, apparently: "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2
Pick and choose exegesis is a very bad principle for earnest-sounding religious practice.
Once I started learning about the Bible outside of church I realized the church was no authority on it. The 'turn the other cheek' and the 'go the extra mile' and 'give them your cloak' were all forms of nonviolent protest back in the day. Churches ;eave that part out and do not explain why
Not everyone who believes themselves a Christian is. In my Christian schooling the literal eye of a needle was taught. It makes me sad that hateful and self serving churches lead people astray and give Christians a bad rep.
@@staindnirv Reminds me of this 'oldie' from when I believed the Christian way: ua-cam.com/video/iSi-aRvhwkU/v-deo.html
@@LastOne155 Reminds me of this 'oldie' from when I believed the Christian way: ua-cam.com/video/iSi-aRvhwkU/v-deo.html
This channel is great, as always
I love this stuff. It shows how cool and colorful people have always been with expressions. Especially Jesus that guy had bars.
that's why he's the Savior and Messiah
When I was in religion class as a kid our teacher told us that the "Eye of a Needle" is believed to have been a really small gate that Camels are too big to fit through.
no, that was just a myth invented so that rich people could trick Christians into thinking they had a chance of going to heaven
Well that would mean every single human could fit thus render the whole saying meaningless.
It means what it it says the eye of a needle.
Thanks for your post. Jesus often used play on words. I think he ment both the narrow gate and camel as well as rope and needle's eye.
Look at petra and Peter ("upon this rock"), the parable of the children's food and the dogs.
@@swirvinbirds1971 You need to rethink this. It said in metaphor ... easier for a camel to go thru the gate. IMPOSSIBLE. Rich man IMPOSSIBLE. See if you can handle a metaphor.
okay but the fact that the words for camel and cable have sounded so similar to each other throughout the ages in several different languages is amazing
It's really strange
It's not that amazing. Most of the European languages have roots in Tamil. There is also some evidence there are Tamil influences in the north American Indian tribal languages.
@@thefoxhat6163 nope. Proto Indo european is not closely related to tamil. PIE languages: Iranian, Sanskrit, Slavic, Greek Latin, German
@@halohaalo2583 You're wrong. Don't let the history you' want to believe get in the way of current thinking based on the evidence. Perhaps you're one of those supremacists who has convinced themselves the superior ancient civilisations were far too stupid to be anything other than cave dwellers. Modern humans are barbarians in comparison.
@@thefoxhat6163 eh
Eye of the needle is also a phrase used referring to the smaller gate in a fortified city. The main gates would be closed at night. A traveler would have to use the smaller gate, referred to as the eye.
There was a section at the gates of Jerusalem called the eye of the needle. Camels had enter through this narrow passage after the merchandise was removed from the camels back.
*Plot twist:* Jesus really did say camel and the original scribe made the typo, but divine power intervened thus causing the next translator to mistranslate the typo fixing the error.
Thanks to your graphics, my favorite translation is now “It’s easier for a Tyrannosaurus rex to get through the eye of a needle than a rich person to get into heaven.” Thank You! 👍🏼
You should switch the eye of the needle bit too into something else even more ridiculous.
What's the actual space between sewing threads called? Does it have a name? A stitching gap?
That's funny! Immediately, it came to mind sailors use large needles to sew fishing nets & to splice ropes. Not to be contrary, but maybe Jesus was simply saying it was hard but not impossible... being rich & knowing how to use a boat to catch fish & teach people ⛵️🐟 😉 Goes with his teachings.
@@joshjones6072 Had a fascination with knots since I was 12 when I began racing sailboats with my Evangelical Xtian father. I’ve crossed the Atlantic, not seen land for 15 days. Like I asked my Sunday School teacher when I was 8: “You mean to tell me Noah built a boat big enough for 2 of every animal?” “Yep! Sure did!”. What my little brain should’ve asked was, “what’s the Aramaic word for Kangaroo? Penguin?”
Maybe, just maybe, Jesus’ teachings about being a friend to the tax man had to do with the conquering people’s (*the Romans) need to tax a people who refused to have ‘graven images’ in their presence. Let’s ask Flavius Jocephus, yeah?
The “eye of the needle” refers to an old Hebrew reference to the narrow path that came down from a mountain into a town. When a camel was heavily loaded down and came down this back path into town, it was very difficult for a camel to take this path - the eye of the needle. I have seen this narrow path in Israel.
that quote is in mathew, mark ,luke and john the needle is an opening in the castle wall barely wide enough for a camel to sqeeze through, the opening is shaped like the eye in the needle and is also called the same
I always wondered about the misinterpretation of the eye of a needle meaning a gate. I heard this when I as a child. I think maybe by a pastor of a megachurch. Seems pretty obvious why he would prefer the incorrect translation rather than the true translation.
Thanks so much for covering this :)
funny how everything else is meant to be completely literal- and even stuff that's never even mentioned - eg abortion, is considered 100% certain in the christian conservative worldview, but the second god clearly denounces their life style and asks them to give up their wealth, unambiguously in like 12 different places they're like
"wait, no, not like that! he didn't really mean it! it was a figure of speech!"
absolute jokes. they have zero convictions
It's one of those funny things. Maybe the obvious obvious interpretation is the logical one. I.e Jesus said give your wealth away and look after the poor. Which is especially relevant back when there was no government support for the poor and sick.
The only reason it's not interpreted that way is that religious leaders who are wealthy don't like that their leader, who spends the entire time talking about how the poor and meek are godly could be preferable over them.
I heard that gate 'explanation' from a teacher as a Catholic child; utter 'bovinum excrementum', of course. I must have had a strong doubting streak even then.
As an older and more questioning young person I researched it a bit - and found that there was no gate in Jerusalem called 'the eye of the needle'.
I'm still a Catholic and camel and needle it is.
Same reason he told you catholics, protestants or every single other Christian denomination aren't Christians.
@Eddard Tyrsson Christianity originated with the ministry of Jesus in the 1st century Roman province of Judea which became the catholic church & the coptics. The new breed of born agains branched from the southern baptists in 1975 in America.
I find the meaning obvious: the mindset needed to get rich and the mindset needed for spiritual progression are very different and are often opposed.
It wasn't that obvious to me. But I like your point.
Apparently you can still see the "Eye of the Needle Gate" even today and there was yet another of the same name in Nazareth. Here is what a recent traveler said on his social media post. "In Jerusalem, there is an Eye of the Needle Gate. The large green gate in the photo above that is located behind my friends, Roger and Linda, is a larger gate door that would be closed at night, but the little door that is open behind them is called the Eye of the Needle Gate."
There was a very low gate/door in the Jerusalem wall, so low a man had to stoop to go through. A donkey could. This was to protect in case of siege, people could creep out but an army could not come in. The door was called the eye of the needle
Was taught the gate myth in highschool by my New Testament teacher and believed it until today. Thank you for the in depth look!
Does it matter?
The gate myth is as good as any myth
Either way, it means you can't love your money and God at the same time. A rich man will choose his money
@@thedevilsadvocate5210 If you're implying that the whole of the bible is myth and that's why it doesn't matter, what would be the whole point of the video? Or RfB's career along with his colleagues'? Matters a lot to many people.
I happened to visit Damscus many years back and remember the tour guide telling us that "eye of the needle" actually was an archway on the straight street and it was not tall enough for a camel to pass through and hence the saying. I thought that make sense as Jesus was explaining to very ordinary people in simple terms about salvation.
FIRSTLY PLEASE READ QURAN 7:40.... CONFIRMS WHAT J ESUS/ESSA SON OF MARY SAID "MEANING IS VERY SIMPLE A PERSONS BELIEF IN 1 AND ONLY GOD/ALLAH IS MUST THEN LIVING ON THIS EARTH AS IF WE ARE TRAVELLERS JUST PASSINGBY " NOT THOSE WHO ARE BUSY COMPILING WEALTH THINKING THEY ARE {RICH} ARE LIVING ON THIS EARTH FOREVER. (THEY ARE DOOMED.)
Who are the modern day descendants of all the people made famous household names in Christian holy books? Surely so many famous people should have modern descendants.
I think that archway is actually completely theoretical and there’s no proof that it actually exists
You are CORRECT!
@@TAHIRALI-me3sv Now that we have figured out A rich man Devoting too much Time gathering money🥵.. And unable to give it up.. And The camel rope main discussion? And how God Almighty wants your complete attention!! Can one of the trinitarians please explain Matthew 3:13 When I was young in CCD class How Jesus is God Almighty? 🙏🙏
Hi just seeing your channel for the first time. Thank you for sharing your research.
Do you have any content about the original Aramaic name of Jesus? Would appreciate your insight. Thank you.
Good stuff, subscribed
When I lived in Tripoli, Libya, we visited many historic sites.
In the old city walls, there were special places built as a way to get in or out in emergencies. It was like a tunnel that goes under the wall. It was designed ensure that no could easily use it as a way to attack the city. It was so cramped, that a person could no crawl through with a weapon, and would be vulnerable while inside the passage.
This passageway was called the Arabic word meaning "eye of the needle". A person can get through it slowly, but a camel, not at all.
What Jesus compared was living one's not materials to go through. Therefore, camel is right for the comparison any way. No hairsplitting needed further. The comparison of wealth for the rich man is unnecessary and obstructive burden, (not for the camel) is the implied spiritual truth which makes sense.
I heard that was a myth, as there was no gate in Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle" Jesus would've referenced.
@@JTheTeach Yes, more likely the famous phrase influenced Arabs to name it that. Israeli tour guides say a lot of things that contradict Christians. Indeed, because they are not Christians, some like to “correct” Christian thinking with their Jewish explanations. Scholars look for evidence.
@@markdouglas8073 Arabs would call it that because Jesus made that analogy? Seems like a total stretch. I saw them in 5 or 6 old city ruins, some of which were built BC.
@@danieljsm218 Why are you so sure that you know what Jesus meant?
The key takeaway is that people really wanted "burden" not to mean "money" so that they could continue to violate Jesus's teachings and still go to heaven. Especially given the sheer amount of money that was coming into the church at the high medieval period.
...and I find it tempting to think that the caveat: "For/through a man it would be Impossible, while through God, ALL things are Possible." would be 'a wink and a nod" to the Medieval practice of Holy Roman- & then Roman Catholic Clerics pulling-in bribes by granting "Indulgences" ('Get Out of HELL for a Fee" duccuments) to wealthy patrons for Sins ALREADY Committed -- or to Crusader Knights who expected To Commit Sins as they hacked their ways to- & through 'The Holy Land'...
...and I find it tempting to think that the caveat: "For/through a man it would be Impossible, while through God, ALL things are Possible." would be 'a wink and a nod" to the "loop-hole" Medieval practice of Holy Roman- & then Roman Catholic Clerics pulling-in bribes by granting "Indulgences" ('Get Out of HELL for a Fee" duccuments) to wealthy patrons for Sins ALREADY Committed -- or to Crusader Knights who expected To Commit Sins as they hacked their ways to- & through 'The Holy Land'...
I do feel that the material comfort of my late middle age life has compromised the more spiritual tendencies that I had as a young man, when I bought a bread on sale and a carton of six eggs for food for the last day of the month before my paycheck, and had the modern US equivalent of US 1$ left in my name.
Thank you, any theory related to origin text is essential. With hope to better understanding the teachings of Jesus. And we all need to have open minded and heart.
I love that you described a 500 year period as a "sudden explosion" in the popularity of that interpretation
In the context of time, 500 yrs is sudden. Lol
@Rich Wilson not in Your time 😄
He described the mass adoption of the theory in th 19th century specifically as a 'sudden explosion', not the entire 500 years. Which is a fair description.
@@tylowstar9765 "... sudden explosion between the eleventh and sixteenth century" 11:50 Which is an unfair description
@Rizza wouldn't be better if we had evidence about any gate that had the name "Eye of the Needle" ? I mean any gate! Anecdotes are "good," but evidence is much better !
What an excellent and thorough discussion. I agree that Jesus's saying was intended to be surprising and radical. Many things that he said surprised and shocked people. And the context of the passage supports this. When Jesus said it, his disciples were "greatly astonished" and asked "Who then can be saved?" Jesus answered that is it impossible for MEN to accomplish salvation, "but with God, all things are possible." His core message, no matter how you look at it, is that salvation is only possible with God's help.
Interestingly, the first edition of the Bible in Portuguese (published 1681) translates it as "cable" (with a footnote with the alternative translation "camel"). It seems this was already a point of contention back then.
A shorter version of what I typed. It is an expression referring to the idea that a camel can read; and that it would help if it could; and that by being rich ~ you simply cannot understand what the leader and his son understand; while they still do understand everything about hard work. If you are rich you are like a person trying to read instructions with a camel reading with you to help; so that you understand what should be done. While the leader will just say whatever too make it so you are not as smart as he is.
It’s like you cannot even be made to understand a thing that you must accomplish or die. It cannot even be made to happen is the expression.
It's also interesting to note the absence of any mention of a gate called "eye of the needle" in any context other than discussing the meaning of Jesus's saying. If the gate was commonly called that, shouldn't there be some mention of it in any other context?
Yes agree
My thoughts too.
He talks about that in the video.
City gates or large, heavy gates in general have posterns (integrated or close to the gate) which would allow a person to pass. Reads as you'd need to leave your belongings (and wealth) before passing. No need for a gate of that name.
If Jesus existed, wouldn’t there be mention of him and his works by at least a single person during his lifetime? Why did it take 2 decades for Paul to imagine him and the. 2 decades more for the gospels to be written by anonymous Greek authors? 🤔
My favorite thing about the Needle Gate theory is how much of a fool it makes God/Jesus out to be. In the original understanding of the verse He employs a metaphor that, in an almost miraculous fashion, has managed to maintain a clear and concise meaning through THOUSANDS of years of changing language, culture, translation, and technology. In the gate theory, he instead uses a veiled localized geographical reference that wouldn't even be understood by most of the people of that time. Brilliant.
Not saying the gate theory is correct, but the new testament is full of local references, idioms, metaphors that would only be understood by locals.
@@WojciechP915 like what?
@@th3unmaker Matthew 4:19 "I will make you fishers of men" is the first line that comes to mind.
@@WojciechP915 that isn't a local idiom. Just like all the others i can think of, it is a practically universally understood one.
@@WojciechP915 could you think of another example? “Fishing” isn’t at the top of my list of localised, obscure professions, and while location names and people are referenced throughout, none of them are so implicating that a passage is indecipherable unless the listener was familiar with the colloquial name for a small spot in town.
The term "eye of a needle" is used as a metaphor for a very narrow opening.
It's a gate with narrow entrance where people need to bow down low to pass the gate.
Most rich people won't bow down. They have much pride and full of themselves. They won't leave their stuffs behind.
The quote says "it's easier" for the camel to enter means rich people can enter but it will be very hard for them to pass because of pride.
Hope it helps.
Yah bless us all!
I'm curious about the parallel saying's phonetic aspect: are you aware of what the talmud's word for elephant is and whether or not it could be homophonous (or quasi homophonous) or homographic (or quasi homographic) to the word for cable?
Thank you for this! About 20 years ago I heard a sermon that explained the belief that eye of a needle meant a thin crack between rocks (meant for a person to be able to squeeze through). I could never find references to that belief online and wondered if it was true. Now I see why I couldn't find supporting documents of this idea.
Do go walking into thin cracks. That's how you clip through to the backrooms.
With the "gate" theory, i always thought it to mean: a camel must offload their worldly posessions to pass through. indicating what a rich person must do to get into heaven. "those who love their life will lose it" etc.
Noooo this saying is clearly dressing the power imbalances taht capital causes and the immorality it synthesizes
its what it means actually, so you're not wrong, this video doesnt do good job explaining it,
@@SlavicAfatarly Got any examples of the gate being called that?
Yes this is the exact meaning!
But that's not the comparison being used, so that explanation makes no sense.
4:50 And that "favoritism" is the main problem with oh so many critical editions relying solely on "filiation" (father-son) stems instead of "phylogeny" (father-son on evolution context) ones, thus ignoring that later texts can be making a copy of an older text and rejecting proper readings "just because it's not an older copy".
The translation of the Aramaic Bible by George Lamsa gives the word, "rope." It says that some copyist added the little dot representing "e" to turn "gamla" (rope) into "gamela," (camel). That makes sense to me.
Prosperity Gospel has its roots deep back in the medieval era, seems like.
But yeah, as a teen in the LDS church I was taught both interpretations, which isn't surprising because there are a lot of rich mormons.
Prosperity gospel roots are in the Old Testament. According to OT God's people are blessed with prosperity and joy.
So as much as I hate Prosperity preachers, I have to admit they kinda have a point...
@@ww2germanhero prosperity - eg having enough to live comfortably, or having a good family who makes you happy is absolutely not the same thing as having an excess of material wealth the way the super rich do.
Ah, a very elegant catch there. The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus .
For maximal hilarity watch the video in which Jim Caveziel who while playing Jesus was properly crucified nails and all (by surgeons) and struck by lighting and whose response to that was "Thank you Lord!" talk to the Property Gospel types . Two different religions . One book.
Honestly your average parolee in church trying to go straight would be far more recognizable to Jesus than almost any rich man. After all Jesus was the guy who told a rich man to \give away everything and follow him (he didn't) and took a killer to heaven.
@@chriss780 Old Testament heroes were rich af. They were literally portrayed as kings, land lords, conquerors and patriarchs.
Jesus was the hippie one.
It is one of the best sayings in the whole bible; it's such a sarcastic, funny, and even spiteful metaphor and gives me a grasp on Jesus' personality.
On the personality of God.
He said it out of love not spite.
Passing over to the spiritual side requires giving up the material side, and a rich man will never want to do that.
The eye of the needle was a well known small passage way. Not an actual needle. People couldn't fit through with their goods.
@@Odo-so8pj What? Did you watch the video?
@@Odo-so8pj That’s a lie and blasphemy.
A eye of needle is a small opening in the wall surrounding of a city where a person can enter: but not room for a camel
My church interprets it as the greedy rich not just any rich person. They rely on 1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
Eh, rope or camel they ain't going through any needles eye regardless
Thank you professor
Unless you are a rich man who can commission a needle large enough for rope or Camels to pass through.
@@Gravelgratiouscomically large needle
Some rope, eh? 🇨🇦
Unless you have God
Thanks for explaining the gate theory. That's the interpretation I was taught as a kid.
Then there is the "hey rich kid, sell all your stuff and give it to the poor" parable, which arguably goes along with this one... And the disciples, when they were sent out, were instructed to take almost nothing with them... because God would provide everything they needed. Being a heavy loadout hiker, backpacker, mountaineer type with the underlying philosophy of "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it", that last one is hard for me.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil." It is very difficult for rich people to not develop love for their money. It's the Golden Rule principle, i.e., Whoever has the gold makes the rules, and that kind of power is intoxicating. It's not sinful to have money, it is sinful to love money. It's the reason why monks of all spiritual paths take a vow of poverty.
If they’d also mistranslated ”love thy neighbor” to ”have a romantic relationship with the person living next door”, the whole world would be a mess
oddly enough love is a very easy word to understand the meaning of in greek b/c of the many specific words used for it.
Or would it? 😉
It certainly got King David into trouble, even before it was stated by Jesus.
The whole world is a mess lol
how so?
"romantic relationship" implies a loving, harmonic relationship.
I was taught the gate theory as fact back in (Lutheran) elementary school. These days, I don't particularly care what Jesus may or may not have said, but I'm still kinda glad to hear that it's BS. The eye-of-the-gate interpretation REALLY watered down the original saying to something meaningless.
Growing up as a non-Christian, I was told that the eye of the needle was a gate only tall enough for a human pass through and not a camel. The metaphor that I always found particularly meaningful was that in order for a camel to pass through the gate it would have to kneel down awkwardly and unload its cargo, therefore in order for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, one would have to bow down to God and shed themself of earthly wealth, and in essence show humility.
Very soon most of the world will not care what the god of any religion said. its been long enough since our tribal days.
@@ApurvaSukant based and reality pilled. Forget god n strive for the greater unification and betterment of all mankind in the name of being a cool dude or lass.. its enough to just want your brothers n sisters to live better without a threat of eternal punishment or reward.. do it for its own sake as hitch said
The thing that really throws a wrench into that theory, is that none of Jesus speeches in the New Testaments are simple transcriptions, they are heavily edited and aimed to capture much wider audiences. Using an analogy that only the locals in Jerusalem could possibly understand is just illogical given how focused their editing is.
@@ApurvaSukant I disagree. People will always want to feel like they can control their outcome after death. Religion is the closest thing people have to that. I personally accept death and welcome it as a part of life, but I don't think it's the most common way of thinking.
In Quran:
{ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا وَاسْتَكْبَرُوا عَنْهَا لَا تُفَتَّحُ لَهُمْ أَبْوَابُ السَّمَاءِ وَلَا يَدْخُلُونَ الْجَنَّةَ حَتَّىٰ يَلِجَ الْجَمَلُ فِي سَمِّ الْخِيَاطِ ۚ وَكَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُجْرِمِينَ (40)}
(40) Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.
Surat Al-A'raaf, verse40
A group of monks are making copies of the Bible when the priest walks past. One of the monks calls him over and asks…
Monk: Father, when was the last time anybody checked our work?
Priest: what do you mean brother?
Monk: I’ve been making copies of the Bible for 30 years now. They have always been copies of copies though. When, if ever, has anyone checked our work against the original works?
Priest: I see what you mean. I’m not sure anyone ever has thought to.
A few days later the head monk is asking if anyone has seen the priest lately. It’s been 2 days and he simply can’t find the priest for mass. The monk from earlier mentions their conversation from a few days before and suggests that they check the catacombs beneath the monastery. As they search the catacombs they find the priest, covered in dust and grime sitting at a small table covered by scrolls, laughing uncontrollably. The monks try calming him down and ask
Monk: Father. Father what is so funny that you laugh so like a man possessed?
Priest: CELEBRATE! The damned thing says Celebrate.
It's hilarious that this saying of Jesus attracts all this desperate re-explaining. I guess the idea that wealth is inherently immoral really panics some people. :D:D:D
EDIT: By the way, I don't think Jesus was damning the rich. I think he was pointing out that they _damn themselves_ by not being willing to give up their wealth. Remember that Jesus said it precisely because a rich young man asked him how to get into heaven, and Jesus said sure, just give up everything you have. Kid didn't wanna do that, and thus Jesus's rather sadly stated assessment.
He said he would bless his wealth 10 times over... don't be silly. Jesus ran a stone masonry business and funded a ministry and 12 disciples for 3.5 years. Then they gambled over his clothes. If you think the wealth doctrine is scandalous, so is the poverty doctrine.
@@davidsaroea5530 everybody assumes wealth is cash. I don't think Jesus could guarantee 10x someone's money. He wasn't dealing crypto. Wealth can mean many other things and all good things, like health and safety and SALVATION. Salvation is worth 10x more than however many coins on Earth. Salvation is worth 10x whatever coins that rich man was hoarding.
Edit: words and their meaning evolve over time. The meaning of "happiness" has changed over time. While being smiley and perpetual good fortune could be described as happiness, more commonly it was good health, many children and healthy children and a steady job (not necessarily a great job. A just a steady that can feed you and your family.) You can look up the history of the word happiness yourself.
@@delia_watercolors8186 if that's the way you want to interpret it, but God was known for prospering his people time and time again...Jireh is one of his names. Poverty doctrine is extremely dangerous and undermines God's goodness
It the greed where wealth becomes an idol not wealth itself. Communist misinterprets it to support their ideology.
@IcedGreenPee It's not a literal everything.
Wow, thank you. I was taught around 40+ years ago that the Eye of the Needle was a gate in Jerusalem in which a fully loaded camel could not pass through. This was apparently for defense from raiders. I personally looked at it as the great divide between the wealthy and the poor during that time was great and historically wealth and power came hand in hand. We also know from history that many of these wealthy people could be ruthless thus making their indiscretions more frequent.
Seriously, I can remember a Catholic priest explaining this to us in a sermon in the eighties.
not much different from today. Rich people are ruthless no matter the era
hmm i guess that just means that you should unload everything before you can go to heaven
@@Ozone946 Being rich or poor has nothing to do with it.
To be truly rich. You have to have some level of greed. Don't listen to this guy It's blasphemy
What's interesting is not so much how sure we can be about the phrase's original meaning, as: how much _interest_ there is in finding a way to justify wealth among Christians. The more extreme affluence becomes in our society - and so, the greater the contrast between the rich and the poor - the greater the need for affluent Christians to legitimize it, despite the inequity.
I was a child when I first heard the eye of needle/small doorway theory from my great grandmother. She heard/read it somewhere, and I can remember her scouring her Bible trying to prove or disprove it.
It's not that it's in the Bible it's that history and history scholars have known this definition and thus is why it has been repeated
@@z.louisecoombsrambouillet8395 I inherited my healthy skepticism from my great grandma. She'd heard someone preach about the eye of the needle being a small doorway, but she wasn't going to accept it until she verified it against holy writ - which she was not able to do, but not for lack of trying. In the same way, I grew up listening to preachers illustrate their sermons with apocryphal stories presented as gospel truth. We didn't have any internet back then to make them cite their sources.
It already makes perfect sense. A camel can pass through the eye of a needle, by cutting it into very small pieces. This is no more radical a transformation than turning a rich man into someone fit for heaven.
Blender.
Indeed. A rich man is only fit for heaven if he is mincemeat.
Its almost like the creator of this video like many who think themselves enlightened on the philosophy used in the bible completely missed the wisdom trying to be conveyed in this statement, rope or camel the ease of getting either thru the eye of the needle is compareable to the difficulty of a rich person being worthy of entering the heavenly afterlife. Seems the word of god neednt be perfectly worded the ignorant will never divine the wisdom intended regardless what wording is used. Like how most take the bible literally and not seeing it as a means of conveying concepts beyond a material minds grasp. Philosophers like Alan Watts and others have thru out time tried to help the masses understand how to properly interpert the bible but few listen.
How small would those pieces need to be 😂
@@drayko-okamidirewytch5542 That was a lot of words, but you sure didn't make your point clear-at least, not to me.
Thank you for your comment on “needle“. I believe there are two things that are missing. Number one the Jewish people were extremely strict on their Saturday sabbath observance. You could not even carry to hankies only one. In my understanding the gates of the city were closed on Sabbath, so that merchants could not come in and tempt the Jewish people to purchase on the Sabbath, which was a violation of the 10 Commandments. So the only way to get in out of the city was through the small gate called the eye of the needle, however, it was normal on a sabbath that a merchant would try to offload his camel. Take it through the eye of the needle and reloaded and go into the city and sell this. This was not unusual. So they viewed this is a normal issue that they would experience every sabbath. You may not find it somewhere else and I understand.
I would suggest additionally that as a devout Christian, I would first of all choose to believe that God is an all powerful God who will protect his word basically. Does that mean there cannot be errors there are some errors, but there slight words they’re not whole phrases from what I understand. Thank you great!!!
I heard of a good interpretation and it goes like this : the city has a surrounding wall and it also has a tall stall which was its gate door so to speak ,resembling an eye of a needle . To fit through the camels had to knee their way in.
For anyone interested about the Talmudic usage: Loosely translated, the Emorah Rabah says "Not a golden palm [tree] nor an elephant entering the eye of the needle", as in things that appear in dreams have some basis in what people ponder, in their hearts. In other words, dreams aren't completely detached from what happens in reality.
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The camel and an actual needle really mesh with everything else Jesus taught. For example, when he told the wealthy man if he wanted to follow him and enter into the kingdom of God then he had to sell/give away everything he had.
Other people said
.... what Jesus was supposed to have said and taught
@@oftin_wong sounds very probable.
Or as my mother said there are no pockets in a shroud.
Deuteronomy 15. It doesn’t say sell everything. It says sell everything that you don’t need.
It is not the man's wealth keeping him out of heaven, it is his "love" of wealth that's the problem. In the OT many of God's favourite people were extremely wealthy, but always put God first.
Either way, Jesus' point is the same. One of my favorite prayers from Scripture is:
Proverbs 30:7 Two things I ask of thee;
deny them not to me before I die:
8 Remove far from me falsehood and lying;
give me neither poverty nor riches;
feed me with the food that is needful for me,
9 lest I be full, and deny thee,
and say, “Who is the Lord?”
or lest I be poor, and steal,
and profane the name of my God.
If you want to see a camel pass through the eye of a needle - just lift the needle to your eye. It's an astonishingly simple riddle that was no doubt well known and well understood. What the heck has gone wrong with the intellects of modern people that they don't get this?
An issue somewhat similar to this that I think would be interesting to cover is the singular usage of the word "epiousios" in the Lord's prayer, which is usually translated as "daily" but who's original meaning has been lost.
I can't remember where, but I have this feeling that he has talked about it. It may have been some other channel though, I can't be certain.
“It is easier for heaven to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter a camel” - KLF
The lesson I derived was that we should not be envious of the rich but should pity their plight for they are more prone to excess and more easily fall to temptation and hedonistic acts. Human nature is to acquire possessions but what must be learned is a respect for the acquisitions for others, rather than succumb to envy and therefore covet, the planning of theft, of 'thy neighbors goods'.
Many years ago I heard the story of the "eye of the needle" from Reverend Dr. Gene Scott that I like best. Scott said that Jerusalem in the old days used to close its large gates at night. One of the gates had a small door in it for pedestrians that come in after hours. If a merchant wanted to bring his camel with all his wears but showed up late he would have to either camp outside the gate till morning or he could unload his camel, pull the camel down to his knees and pull him through the small door way which was called "the eye of the needle" on his knees, then load up the camel again and be on his way.
I took"Camel through the/an eye of the/a needle" literally when I heard it as a child. I also tried to make it a quantum camel before I knew what quantum was.
It seems like you still don’t know what quantum is
In my language, that passage is translated as the camel going through the needle's point.
@@MrShanester117 where are you getting that? they haven’t tried to explain it yet
Why were you so concerned with finding a loophole for rich people to pull a fast one on god?
@@chompythebeast When I was a kid I wasn't wondering about parables or the fates of random rich people, moreso the logistics of a thing being possible.
This channel is underrated. I'm a Christian who wants to practice proper exegesis and this is just pure gold
If you're motivated enough, learning Koine Greek (the Ancient Greek of the Bible) is as "easy" as learning any ancient Western language, since it tends to use word order that is very familiar to modern audiences. One way to do this on your own is to acquire an Interlinear Bible that has your preferred translation on one page and the Greek on the opposite (or in alternating lines)―with just the ability to sound out Greek letters and a small vocabulary, you'll be able to see differences between how the New Testament was recorded and how it is relayed to moderns today.
It's more work than watching a UA-cam channel, but if you happen to feel your very soul depends on it, it's well worth it
@@chompythebeast Waw, thank you so much mate.
Do you have any tips for Old Testament? I mean, will Ancient Hebrew do it or any other language be more suitable?
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@Eddard Tyrsson Thanks, so the study of masoretic text will have little to no advantage over the Septuagint right?
The Bible says you should go out am enslave the heathens around you. If you are not willing to enslave people, then you will never reach your goal of living life faithfully as to the "text."
An old walled city had SALLY PORTS, a very small opening for raiders could go out at night to raid a siege camp, would not have a name but known at the time…..
Empty of ego (separateness) = Full of Life.