It’s so refreshing to see some reasoned, moderate content on a You Tube channel. Keep it going, it’s such a relief after all the clickbait, speculative and wishful thinking, superficiality and downright lies
Lets hope for a coalition with, this time, the Liberal Democrats absolutely insisting on PR. With a large Labour majority there would be no hope for PR. Starmer: what a depressing prospect! He has gone back on all the promises he made in his leadership campaign in an attempt to woo back those who voted Tory the last time, under the influence of the popular press. Its only the smaller parties including the greens, which could hold him to progressive policies.
Exactly the Lib Dem’s learned a hard lesson from 2015 if labour depends on Lib Dem for forming a government they will be asking for a lot more than PR ,massive constitutional reform .
Starmer might be a ''depressing prospect'', but at this point I'd dismantle the parliamentary system and give Charlie a go before I'd vote Tory. Given the choice between Starmer and absolute monarchy, I'll take the former and just thank God there isn't some culture-war peddling white collar criminal in charge for once.
"Fewer people describe themselves as habitual voters" - because parties used to have a dependable position. These days they won't tell us what they stand for, so how can we be habitual voters?
Great discussion. I look forward to vlogs with Andrew Marr. To some degree both Sunak and Starmer have the same problem. They are predominantly trying to appease voters and not lead them, even in part. This can only deliver stunted polices delivered with a lack of will. Thanks. P.S. The Can Do advert on the end was magnificent satire too. 😅
Marr is a man who talks through his mouth and brain in unionson. Always watched him on Sunday morning. Not surprised he left the BBC. His programmes before he left, kicked gravitas, I think he was nibbled by the BBC board and their Tory friends
As someone who is fairly left wing relative to English standards, I would say the biggest problem with Keir starmer is that he continues to try to appeal to the moderates more by cutting back on important policies (i.e. energy nationalization), despite already having a very large lead. My concern is that very little will be achieved during his run as PM, which could make it easy for Tories to retake power. Overall the key problem is that Keir is only being elected because people actively dislike conservatives, and that he doesn't particularly inspire anyone to support him. There is also a massively growing negative sentiment towards him from the more left-wing part of labour, and while he essentially holds us hostage due to tactical voting, it could really create some issues for labour if the greens continues to grow as we have seen it do so in the past. At this point, I really dislike Keir and I hope that we can get rid of first past the post so that someday my vote will actually matter and I can vote for candidates that don't simply try to appeal to the median voter
Looking at the latest published poll, the Greens are at 5% which is not great for them at this point of the electoral cycle, they're likely to go lower the closer we get to election day as more people focus on the question of who should be in government. My guess is, as far as non-Labour/Conservative parties are concerned, Reform UK and the Lib Dems are likely to have a bigger impact on the outcome of the next election, as they'll be more likely to capitalise from the Tories' misfortunes than from Labour's, and given the Tories are in power, they're more vulnerable, while the Greens would need some big scandal to hit Labour. If Reform UK gets anywhere between 3-5% Labour's chances of an outright majority will be very good indeed.
@@henners1574 I'll have to closely study all other parties manifestos first, then decide which sounds less like empty rhetoric aka promises promises, before I choose. I might even just go and spoil my vote. I know I'll get abused by some for my attitude, but shrug 🤷♀️ that's me
Really refreshing to hear this. Great conversation. I really hope you are both correct and Keir Starmer does become the next PM. Britain now does need that change and finally a credible Labour party worth voting for
@@bbasleigh6149 EXACTLY! But your reply wasn't visible in "Sort by / Top Comments" view. I had to switch to "Sort by / Newest First" to see it. Neoliberal censorship in action, I suppose !
This is what a conversation "over the fence" should sound like- mutual respect, mutual understanding, and statements based on facts, on objective reality. Where did that decorum go in the last decade?
My problem with Starmer is I've no idea what he proposes to do to fix the messes Tories have created. I even imagine he might perpetuate them. It's why I stopped voting Labour after Corbyn's Brexit debacle and switched to SNP, and I'll vote for independence once we get the opportunity to. It's Labour at fault as much as the Tories, and Starmer won't tell me that's changed.
@@notch7139 Nope, it's the essential step to rid us of the Tories, and return to the EU where we belong. The English will eventually wake up and follow. At least that way we'll be associated as equal nations, rather than Scotland as one of the last English colonies.
@@casteretpollux Well, we may get lucky yet. Maybe, as others have read the tea-leaves, he's staying schtum so not to give the Tories ammo too far ahead of time. But it does mean we won't know what he'll do unless he becomes more forthright during the election campaign.
The divisions in the Conservative Party in regards to liberal home counties vs culturally conservative red wall are not unique to the Tories. It's a genuine division in our nation. And if Labour win back a lot of the red wall while still dominating London and cities then Labour will suffer from the same divisions. Red wall Lab MPs vs London MPs on Europe, immigration etc... Red wall Lab MPs in future are going to be very wary of losing their seats, unlike pre 2019 when they took them for granted.
On home ownership the record of this Government is abysmal. A peak of 73% under Tony Blair, about 60% now, could be below 50% in another decade. They’ve undone in 13 years the biggest post war achievement the Tories were associated with. Little wonder in recent months Labour have been going hard on homes and home ownership, it’s a massive open goal and one of the symbolic failures of this Government.
I don't think it will need Tory negativity, slander, vile, I'm sure SIR Keir Starmer will cut his own throat and shoot his foot off, In the BBC we trust.Keir will soon be knocking on Murdoch's door.
Good to see a conversation between two comentators with different political bias have a conversation where they analyse the topic rathar than fight each other.
I'm quite looking forward to it, because i think the population is gonna be completely dissapointed by him. Then maybe some kind of alternative can finally get in.
I think Starmer would be a hybrid of Blair and Cameron - he's moved the party quite some distance away from "normal" Labour. All I would ask from him is to be less disastrous than any of the previous 4 PMs (not too high a bar yet Sunak is failing to meet it). PR would be a MASSIVE bonus to have grown up politics in the UK.
He's been polling ahead for quite some time and to say you think his voters will be disappointed is to say you think you know something no one else does. You would be rich from trading stocks if you could predict how people behave. Truth is your confidence is based on an arrogant delusion. What Kier has achieved with the Labour takes a lot of hard work and it's unlikely he'll throw it away. He might decline in popularity, but I bet he won't leave office until 2029.
@@jakel8627 He's only been polling well.... Because the Tories are doing soooo badly right now. Labour should be absolutely miles ahead if everything they said about getting "the grown ups " back in charge was actually correct and it isn't. There's absolutely 0 vision from this Blair.2 rehash, apart from shiting all over half of his party as much as possible. And at a point where the country actually needs some radical ideas to address ALOT of issues, we've got Captain i won't repeal Tory laws. And you lot think he's gonna save the country, haaa!!! It's gonna be hilarious when the penny drops and everyone suddenly realises these rightwing so called Labour mps aren't actually gonna be much different to what we've got now.😂
@@jakel8627polls in opposition are not governance. Kier starmer is ahead, it doesn't mean he's doing well. He's shown an ability not to scare middle the road voters by lying over and over again, that might get him ahead in some polls but there is very little chance he'll deliver the change the country needs.
Labour has no idea what to do in power. The Tories have failed miserably, again. Im not voting for Labour or Conservatives. Neither will tackle the climate crisis, the NHS or inflations. I'll vote Greens before I vote for Rishi or Keir
Another example of how Britain's political landscape is markedly different to that of the US. Voters here are much more changeable in their allegiances and willing to countenance either Sunak or Starmer's respective offers, both of whom have shifted their parties towards the centre ground. Whereas in America, the presidential race is determined by around 80,000 votes out of 160 million every time.
Centre ground? are you ok? Do you think being authoritative, downright lying and political divisive is centre ground? Crazy. Both Tories and Labour are now on the right.
The centre ground is halfway between left and right. The centre ground is not a fixed point it has been steadily moved to the right for the last 40 years. The country is out of balance and needs a good dose of Democratic socialism to rebalance it.
Centre ground is militantly right wing economically with scraps of progressive social politics. Its an enforced arm of a rightwing establishment, because it always thrusts rightwards.
His mum was a pharmacist or something, aren't oligarchs people who buy public assets at a massive discount because they're friends with people in the government ?
Currently a female Labour MP has reported a male colleague to the Police for sexual assault, part of a 'wider pattern of behaviour'. She went to the Police as she didn't trust her own party to deal with this properly due the popularity of the man.
Basically Rarely does any party win, usually a party loses, There is little or no appetite for either, the low turnout shows the apathy. Frankly until everyone gets the balls to not vote for anyone, nothing will change,
People could wake up and see him for what he is, and he's a Tory way too far to the right to be a socialist and the sooner Labour supporters realise this and remove him the better.
Remember the 2010 general election, there was a big surge in the Lib Dem vote after Nick Clague was seen on the TV debates. Lib Democrats won about 61 seats
I had my political education in France in the 80s and 90s. I also had my eyes opened about the UK. Sadly with the system we have it's Hobson's choice. I would prefer a party much further to the Left.
What's 'absolutely fascinating' is that nothing will - in so much as getting better for the general public and science returning to fact not fiction. And Starmer will essentially maintain the already rotten status quo. Won't that be 'absolutely fascinating?'
Kier Starmer is a barrister who is used to keeping in order,he wil be a calm and precise he is a calming person and can do the job precisely,properly and will do his best for the country as a whole!
The turnout for the 2023 local elections was 30.62%. The turnout for the last General Election in 2019 was 67.3%. If you factor in the dfferent boundaries involved and different numbers of local councillors and MP candidates, it seems to me a rather wild guess to predict a Labour government in 2024 based on local election results.
Local elections turnouts are always low but they’ve always provided a decent bellwether on the state of the parties at a national level. Taken with the national opinion polls, and the opinion polls in Scotland it does all point to Labour being where they need to be to win a general election. Given the mountain they have to climb from 2019 it’s unlikely to be a 1997 sized majority, even if the swing is in that territory, but it doesn’t need to be, there are enough natural allies in Parliament for a Labour Government with a small to medium majority to see a full term without too many problems.
All very well Labour promising to give 16 year olds the vote, how about giving them an electoral system that genuinely adds value to their vote wherever it is cast. Commit to Proportional Representation and actually give them real influence over who will shape their future and govern this country. Without a representative, proportional voting system you just create more disillusioned people only 2 years earlier. FGS Labour, bloody grow a pair and do something meaningful and radical !
I do not doubt that KS would be the next PM. But what kind of PM would he be? He does not inspire much confidence in me. The voters would have a Hobson's choice in selecting the right government for the country.
Just on the young person vote: is house prices / housing availability really the best that politicians can give us?? That is SO long term. Surely there must be something on curbing landlord powers, improving social rights, nationalising public services to bring down costs... All these could be done in first 100 days and have a big impact on our lives now.
Thatcher was asked during her final Years what she considered her greatest achievement. She answered tony bLIAR and New Labour. She was asked again recently during a seance and she said Sir Block of Wood.
Poll of Polls (aggregates all the polls) Labour 44% Conservative 29% Lib-Dem 11% Green 6% Reform 6% Been steady for a while the locals looked to be tactical voting at a huge scale anyone but a Tory
I was set to mention something not addressed - until David Gauke did so at 13:10 the Conservatives have been in power for a long time... When they discussed voters being undecided of the two main parties due to some similarities in their pledges - I reckon for many despite this indecision they will simply want a change and sway to Labour for that - or vote for another smaller party/spoil paper. I read Seb Coe's autobiography - very interesting to read that shortly after his '92 election win, John Major told his cabinet they will not win another general election, and i think tried to push through policies as much as they could, or at least that was the plan. Ultimately in a democracy, a political party doesn't govern forever, and this is now 13 years including tough austerity for many, and even though he is an competent PM, I think Rishi Sunak was given the helm of a sinking ship, struck by two torpedoes from Johnson's scandals and Truss's devastating incompetence with the economy
I was apathetic until a few days ago, but I’ll vote Conservative at the next GE. Any future Labour government would build on Green Belt Land. As they know that most people in the Green Belt are not going to vote Labour anyway they have little to lose. As well as steadily losing this precious green space it will cause increased road congestion (with further surface deterioration), increased population density and put additional pressure on already hard-pressed services. We can of course kiss goodbye to our precious countryside but can the infrastructure where I live support Labour’s building targets? They would also relax planning restrictions in order to meet mandatory targets. So, if you (like me) have successfully fought a planning application in the past then you must be prepared for a reversal if the application is re-submitted.
Absolutely agree. They're all shouting into the wind trying to effect any change to the Conservative party in its current for. Gauke was a pretty competent minister, he should get back into politics.
Labour can't have the Tories willingness to remove rights from ordinary people shown by these rabid Tories. In the last few days we have heard of two Tory voters disenfranchised because they didn't have ID. A young royalist lady arrested and imprisoned for 9 hours for no good reason. A Tory jack in office made complaints against 3 Labour activists and they were visited and harassed by the police who thendecided that there was no crime. He was then provided with a report of their activities. And now we have the secretary of state reprimanded in Parliament for revealing a huge change in British law to the Telegraph instead of to Parliament. She was reprimanded by the speaker but continued with the insouciant arrogance we have leaned to expect from Tories. The British constitution was supposed to work because people were 'good chaps' and behaved decently. This government is filled with arrogant 'cads and bounders' and the British constitution is dying.
The electorate are more volatile and the issues are too. Inflation and the financial state of Europe as a whole especially with the bad state of German finances caused by QE make promises like spending large on the green agenda quite a dangerous strategy. The money markets are ruthless as we know. Who is going to be the PM who reverses the ban on petrol and diesel cars after the election and will that become a topic this side of it?
Even if a party gets 40% of the people who vote there will be a majority of the population who didnt vote for them and we are such a divided nation now they will struggle to govern and introduce moderate reforms without opponents and the press going into meltdown!!
Its interesting to hear people on the right say they have underestimated Keir and 'he knows exactly what he is doing', bc on the left his reputation has plummeted. Labour did well in the local elections primarily bc of bad Tory governance not bc Keir is particularly likeable or charismatic. If Rishi does a good job over the next 18months the GE could be close
I would suggest who is Starmer, what does he stand for, the answer may be nothing, he's ditched all his leadership promises, he's flip flopped on every new pledge and he's become authoritarian. One thing that always bothers me is the disdain on political topics where the English talk about the SNP in a derogatory way. Of course, no one would have a coalition with the SNP. No one wants any input from the SNP because they actually deliver socialist policies and would show up Starmer for the charlatan that he is
I really do find this characterisation of the red wall as right wing seriously short sighted. For decades the red wall was and still is solidly economically left wing yes hence RED wall. Make no mistake Labour lost the red wall because they wouldn't respect the democratic result of the referendum. We want more democracy, more devolved power, more investment in the north. We have been ignored by London since time immemorial and people will vote for whoever will listen to us, not patronise and stereotype us with right wing soundbites like STOP THE BOATS, TOUGH ON CRIME, BS.
I was pretty sure that final nail was hammered in when Corbyn's Labour gave Boris Johnson an 80+ majority in 2019. Unsurprisingly it seems most of Corbyn's fans in Parliament have preferred to sit back rather than try to pick up that particular torch.
We need to change our system. It’s not great to have to choose between the Tories or Labour. At the same time a coalition will be 5 years of treading water which essentially is going backwards
Imagine the frowning Starmer on the world stage. I am sorry he just is not a leader. We need a visionary, someone to galvanize and inspire the country.
The conservative party has a strategy to go after the front bench of the 'Labour Party'. The feeling is to leave the leader out of the debate. The shadow bench are all weak if not easily brought down. The soft underbelly.
Labour is not a silver bullet solution to the Tory political-economic devastation. Nevertheless, Labour is by far the better option. Tories should never ever be able to govern alone again. No ifs no buts prison for all Tory MP's. Plus anyone who even suggests the Tories are an option.
What could go wrong? Well, that was the question to be asked when Cameron took over, then May, then Johnson, then Truss and then Sunak. Those five presided over a massive transfer of wealth from the middle and working classes to the already wealthy. Starmer hopefully will reverse that.
Keir Starmer has been calm and calculated - and patient despite the silly 'Captain Hindsight ' comments ... And the rest. I know he comes across as a bit boring - we need a boring politician that is calm and collected. He's playing the long game and it's working
What you say about greenfield house building may be true in the Home Counties (I've never lived in them so can't comment) but the opposite is true in the red/blue wall for a few reasons: 1) Greenfield building will not reduce prices (rent or buy) in these areas, partly because prices are already relatively low and availability is already there. 2) The biggest beneficiaries are big business, like Tory donor Persimmon. 3) Privatisation, and the fragmentation it causes, directly feeds in to the "build, sell and run" house building which companies do with no thought for the wider long term implications including economic. Younger voters are turned off by Blairism, and the failed pro-privatisation experiment which happened under him (not to single him out, or Labour). 4) The young voters the Lib Dems are targeting are big on environmentalism. They won't vote for greenfield house building, miles away from the nearest town to have a train station. The resulting car ownership is another reason why building in these places is nonsensical. 5) Younger voters in these places are if anything more impacted by lack of public transport, something there is night and day between the Blairites and the Corbynites. This is also far more likely to drive them away and lose their votes. So there is a squeeze of people not voting for the party most likely to stop the Tories, and lack of public transport pushing people away from these areas, and people who should be voting Labour and Lib Dem even voting Tory. Durham County Council lost most of the County Durham seats in 2019 partly due to cosying up to the likes of Persimmon.
The build all over the green belt promise of Starmer will destroy plenty of areas. There isn’t a housing shortage that can be fixed by building houses. The reason they want to build houses is that this creates money and therefore growth. House building in green belt in the south east is because the building companies make the maximum profit. What we should be doing is building new large towns up north along with transport links to london. This should be built by public sector building companies to a good standard and to passiv haus standard. But it won’t because the big house builders have lobbying companies to push the government. Starmer dosnt actually have any concrete proposals that he has costed. The trouble with the tories is that they are incompetent because they though Corbyn made labour unelectable and have become complacent. What pisses me off is people like this muppet being interviewed using the word NIMBY because they don’t live in the real world where you can’t get a GP appointment or even take stuff to the tip because of over housing. You won’t solve either of those problems by building more houses in over crowded areas.
I don’t see labour lasting 5 years, other than Blair. Labour don’t usually last that long. The tories need an actual conservative to put them back in number 10
Well I don't like any one of them. Can we have a political party who believes you can do what you want as long as you're not causing problems and harm to people?
Always a breath of fresh air to hear reasonable people with intelligent things to say.
Even though he couldn’t admit to which side of the fence he sat for twenty years
I agree. The newly unshackled version of Marr is a breath of fresh air. I love his LBC show.
It would be if you could only believe anything he says. Think Boris with a better haircut and you will be spot on.
Not a labour voter but anyone would do a better job than the current shower.
Of course you aren’t child🤡👍
Don't get too excited. Labour policies are very similar underneath the rhetoric
It’s so refreshing to see some reasoned, moderate content on a You Tube channel. Keep it going, it’s such a relief after all the clickbait, speculative and wishful thinking, superficiality and downright lies
Well said that man!
A conservative worried about an opposition government might be incompetent?
That's a very low bar to cross.
Lets hope for a coalition with, this time, the Liberal Democrats absolutely insisting on PR. With a large Labour majority there would be no hope for PR. Starmer: what a depressing prospect! He has gone back on all the promises he made in his leadership campaign in an attempt to woo back those who voted Tory the last time, under the influence of the popular press. Its only the smaller parties including the greens, which could hold him to progressive policies.
I do not trust Lib Dems. Remember when the vote for David Cameron was not enough, so Lib Dems formed a coalition with the greedy TORIES.
Exactly the Lib Dem’s learned a hard lesson from 2015 if labour depends on Lib Dem for forming a government they will be asking for a lot more than PR ,massive constitutional reform .
We need PR enacting, have Labour reneged on this then?
Starmer might be a ''depressing prospect'', but at this point I'd dismantle the parliamentary system and give Charlie a go before I'd vote Tory. Given the choice between Starmer and absolute monarchy, I'll take the former and just thank God there isn't some culture-war peddling white collar criminal in charge for once.
@@mikenowacki9729 The only thing Stammerer has done is renege.
"Fewer people describe themselves as habitual voters" - because parties used to have a dependable position. These days they won't tell us what they stand for, so how can we be habitual voters?
Great discussion.
I look forward to vlogs with Andrew Marr.
To some degree both Sunak and Starmer have the same problem. They are predominantly trying to appease voters and not lead them, even in part. This can only deliver stunted polices delivered with a lack of will.
Thanks.
P.S. The Can Do advert on the end was magnificent satire too. 😅
Marr is a man who talks through his mouth and brain in unionson.
Always watched him on Sunday morning.
Not surprised he left the BBC. His programmes before he left, kicked gravitas, I think he was nibbled by the BBC board and their Tory friends
He left before he was pushed because of his left wing bias.
@@lestrem11 Yes he wasn't a slack jawed right wing twat.
As someone who is fairly left wing relative to English standards, I would say the biggest problem with Keir starmer is that he continues to try to appeal to the moderates more by cutting back on important policies (i.e. energy nationalization), despite already having a very large lead. My concern is that very little will be achieved during his run as PM, which could make it easy for Tories to retake power.
Overall the key problem is that Keir is only being elected because people actively dislike conservatives, and that he doesn't particularly inspire anyone to support him.
There is also a massively growing negative sentiment towards him from the more left-wing part of labour, and while he essentially holds us hostage due to tactical voting, it could really create some issues for labour if the greens continues to grow as we have seen it do so in the past.
At this point, I really dislike Keir and I hope that we can get rid of first past the post so that someday my vote will actually matter and I can vote for candidates that don't simply try to appeal to the median voter
Looking at the latest published poll, the Greens are at 5% which is not great for them at this point of the electoral cycle, they're likely to go lower the closer we get to election day as more people focus on the question of who should be in government.
My guess is, as far as non-Labour/Conservative parties are concerned, Reform UK and the Lib Dems are likely to have a bigger impact on the outcome of the next election, as they'll be more likely to capitalise from the Tories' misfortunes than from Labour's, and given the Tories are in power, they're more vulnerable, while the Greens would need some big scandal to hit Labour. If Reform UK gets anywhere between 3-5% Labour's chances of an outright majority will be very good indeed.
Well said Leon, unfortunately I can't bring myself to vote for Kier. He's lied too much
@@vietashroffoliver2521 which party are you choosing to vote for instead?
I totally agree. Not my prime minister, but the best I'm going to get.
@@henners1574 I'll have to closely study all other parties manifestos first, then decide which sounds less like empty rhetoric aka promises promises, before I choose. I might even just go and spoil my vote. I know I'll get abused by some for my attitude, but shrug 🤷♀️ that's me
Starmer is far too timid, far too frightened of the Red Wall and the right wing press.
Or maybe he's a closet right wing?
Starmer is a sit on the fence geezer he wont win a majority the council elections prove hes in for a hung parliament 😅😅
Really refreshing to hear this. Great conversation. I really hope you are both correct and Keir Starmer does become the next PM. Britain now does need that change and finally a credible Labour party worth voting for
@@bbasleigh6149 EXACTLY! But your reply wasn't visible in "Sort by / Top Comments" view. I had to switch to "Sort by / Newest First" to see it. Neoliberal censorship in action, I suppose !
This is what a conversation "over the fence" should sound like- mutual respect, mutual understanding, and statements based on facts, on objective reality. Where did that decorum go in the last decade?
The tories shouldn't worry, they've still got their Thatcherite traditions firmly represented in the politics of Starmer.
Will anyone notice more than a change of personnel, a change of optics, and some new deckchair formations 🤔
As they used to say, 'It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always wins'.
My problem with Starmer is I've no idea what he proposes to do to fix the messes Tories have created. I even imagine he might perpetuate them. It's why I stopped voting Labour after Corbyn's Brexit debacle and switched to SNP, and I'll vote for independence once we get the opportunity to. It's Labour at fault as much as the Tories, and Starmer won't tell me that's changed.
Scottish independence is the same mad nationalism as Brexit.
@@notch7139 Nope, it's the essential step to rid us of the Tories, and return to the EU where we belong. The English will eventually wake up and follow. At least that way we'll be associated as equal nations, rather than Scotland as one of the last English colonies.
He's now announced that he's "Blair on steroids". Moving right so fast he will soon make Sunak look pink.
@@notch7139 Breaking up the Old Empire would do a service to the world.
@@casteretpollux Well, we may get lucky yet. Maybe, as others have read the tea-leaves, he's staying schtum so not to give the Tories ammo too far ahead of time. But it does mean we won't know what he'll do unless he becomes more forthright during the election campaign.
14:04 yes, abandoning pledges on a near constant basis
The divisions in the Conservative Party in regards to liberal home counties vs culturally conservative red wall are not unique to the Tories. It's a genuine division in our nation. And if Labour win back a lot of the red wall while still dominating London and cities then Labour will suffer from the same divisions. Red wall Lab MPs vs London MPs on Europe, immigration etc... Red wall Lab MPs in future are going to be very wary of losing their seats, unlike pre 2019 when they took them for granted.
On home ownership the record of this Government is abysmal. A peak of 73% under Tony Blair, about 60% now, could be below 50% in another decade. They’ve undone in 13 years the biggest post war achievement the Tories were associated with. Little wonder in recent months Labour have been going hard on homes and home ownership, it’s a massive open goal and one of the symbolic failures of this Government.
I'm just wondering when the negative, slanderous, vile campaigning against Labour and its leadership will begin..
In the Daily Mail it has been going since 1900 on a daily basis.
Starmer fired the gun with the gutter politics with those nonsense rishi attack ads.
The lot in charge this time did that last time to their own leadership.
Labour usually get in first don't they.
I don't think it will need Tory negativity, slander, vile, I'm sure SIR Keir Starmer will cut his own throat and shoot his foot off, In the BBC we trust.Keir will soon be knocking on Murdoch's door.
Good to see a conversation between two comentators with different political bias have a conversation where they analyse the topic rathar than fight each other.
Marr isn't really showing any particular bias here at all
They struggle to communicate 'big messages' because neither has a big message to communicate, 'hedging' being common to both.
Love Andrew Mar he is so lever
Sigh, a non choice between, Sir Keir 'Broken Pledges' Starmer or closet Oligarch, Rishi 'Tax Haven' Sunak...☹
Labour don't have a hope in Scotland the SNP will get back again because 50%+ of Scotland want out of the UK.
I'm quite looking forward to it, because i think the population is gonna be completely dissapointed by him. Then maybe some kind of alternative can finally get in.
I think Starmer would be a hybrid of Blair and Cameron - he's moved the party quite some distance away from "normal" Labour. All I would ask from him is to be less disastrous than any of the previous 4 PMs (not too high a bar yet Sunak is failing to meet it). PR would be a MASSIVE bonus to have grown up politics in the UK.
Both Left and Right in Britain have embraced open borders Globalisation and have no solutions.
He's been polling ahead for quite some time and to say you think his voters will be disappointed is to say you think you know something no one else does. You would be rich from trading stocks if you could predict how people behave. Truth is your confidence is based on an arrogant delusion. What Kier has achieved with the Labour takes a lot of hard work and it's unlikely he'll throw it away. He might decline in popularity, but I bet he won't leave office until 2029.
@@jakel8627 He's only been polling well.... Because the Tories are doing soooo badly right now. Labour should be absolutely miles ahead if everything they said about getting "the grown ups " back in charge was actually correct and it isn't.
There's absolutely 0 vision from this Blair.2 rehash, apart from shiting all over half of his party as much as possible.
And at a point where the country actually needs some radical ideas to address ALOT of issues, we've got Captain i won't repeal Tory laws.
And you lot think he's gonna save the country, haaa!!!
It's gonna be hilarious when the penny drops and everyone suddenly realises these rightwing so called Labour mps aren't actually gonna be much different to what we've got now.😂
@@jakel8627polls in opposition are not governance. Kier starmer is ahead, it doesn't mean he's doing well. He's shown an ability not to scare middle the road voters by lying over and over again, that might get him ahead in some polls but there is very little chance he'll deliver the change the country needs.
Labour has no idea what to do in power. The Tories have failed miserably, again. Im not voting for Labour or Conservatives. Neither will tackle the climate crisis, the NHS or inflations. I'll vote Greens before I vote for Rishi or Keir
Another example of how Britain's political landscape is markedly different to that of the US. Voters here are much more changeable in their allegiances and willing to countenance either Sunak or Starmer's respective offers, both of whom have shifted their parties towards the centre ground. Whereas in America, the presidential race is determined by around 80,000 votes out of 160 million every time.
Centre ground? are you ok? Do you think being authoritative, downright lying and political divisive is centre ground? Crazy. Both Tories and Labour are now on the right.
The centre ground is halfway between left and right. The centre ground is not a fixed point it has been steadily moved to the right for the last 40 years. The country is out of balance and needs a good dose of Democratic socialism to rebalance it.
Centre ground is militantly right wing economically with scraps of progressive social politics. Its an enforced arm of a rightwing establishment, because it always thrusts rightwards.
rishi sunak is a British oligarch equivalent
His mum was a pharmacist or something, aren't oligarchs people who buy public assets at a massive discount because they're friends with people in the government ?
@@jakel8627 shhh don't let facts get in the way of a fun narrative...
He definitely is a British oligarch equivalent, my hope is oligarchs will soon become an extinct species like the dinosaurs they are.
Currently a female Labour MP has reported a male colleague to the Police for sexual assault, part of a 'wider pattern of behaviour'. She went to the Police as she didn't trust her own party to deal with this properly due the popularity of the man.
Basically Rarely does any party win, usually a party loses, There is little or no appetite for either, the low turnout shows the apathy. Frankly until everyone gets the balls to not vote for anyone, nothing will change,
"It's Time for a Change" - now that's a uniting slogan
No Proportional Representation then
Keir Starmer is not a safe pair of hands
People could wake up and see him for what he is, and he's a Tory way too far to the right to be a socialist and the sooner Labour supporters realise this and remove him the better.
Remember the 2010 general election, there was a big surge in the Lib Dem vote after Nick Clague was seen on the TV debates. Lib Democrats won about 61 seats
Who was the Labour leader then, I have forgotten. Was it Gordon Brown?
When we see Keir in his place in the House of Commons, he always has his carers sitting alongside him, making sure that he sticks to the script
I had my political education in France in the 80s and 90s. I also had my eyes opened about the UK. Sadly with the system we have it's Hobson's choice. I would prefer a party much further to the Left.
What's 'absolutely fascinating' is that nothing will - in so much as getting better for the general public and science returning to fact not fiction. And Starmer will essentially maintain the already rotten status quo. Won't that be 'absolutely fascinating?'
That point about not getting permission is a very interesting one and I think is an insightful one
Yes we want change ,he is a lawyer ,we are very tired arrogant Government ,,especially the PM never answer a question .
Actually, your problems with the language are wore than i thought. Where are you from?
Kier Starmer is a barrister who is used to keeping in order,he wil be a calm and precise he is a calming person and can do the job precisely,properly and will do his best for the country as a whole!
The turnout for the 2023 local elections was 30.62%. The turnout for the last General Election in 2019 was 67.3%. If you factor in the dfferent boundaries involved and different numbers of local councillors and MP candidates, it seems to me a rather wild guess to predict a Labour government in 2024 based on local election results.
Local elections turnouts are always low but they’ve always provided a decent bellwether on the state of the parties at a national level. Taken with the national opinion polls, and the opinion polls in Scotland it does all point to Labour being where they need to be to win a general election. Given the mountain they have to climb from 2019 it’s unlikely to be a 1997 sized majority, even if the swing is in that territory, but it doesn’t need to be, there are enough natural allies in Parliament for a Labour Government with a small to medium majority to see a full term without too many problems.
you better hope that Labour win,reesemogg is spouting sufficient fascist rhetoric to make adoph Hitler blush.
The bookies have a hung election as favourite atm, they are usually right
I am so sorry but is the UK press in this interview is it a plant?
There was a lot of parking, that was the transit focus rather than public transport
Wake up , its begun already... Compared to SNP . ??
Why can't politicians talk this honestly while still in office? X
Clever
All very well Labour promising to give 16 year olds the vote, how about giving them an electoral system that genuinely adds value to their vote wherever it is cast.
Commit to Proportional Representation and actually give them real influence over who will shape their future and govern this country. Without a representative, proportional voting system you just create more disillusioned people only 2 years earlier.
FGS Labour, bloody grow a pair and do something meaningful and radical !
Will make no difference if it's the blue one or the red one, nothing will change for the better.
Perhaps the Labour party could go into coalition with the Conservatives ...oh I'm forgetting they already have! ConLab
Let’s give him a chance.
He will wreak havoc on the country. It's going to be an expensive shot.
At the next general election it's for Keir Starmer's time to shine.
@@denzel270 we've found the bot
I do not doubt that KS would be the next PM. But what kind of PM would he be? He does not inspire much confidence in me. The voters would have a Hobson's choice in selecting the right government for the country.
The backdrop is greyer than John Major.
Just on the young person vote: is house prices / housing availability really the best that politicians can give us?? That is SO long term. Surely there must be something on curbing landlord powers, improving social rights, nationalising public services to bring down costs... All these could be done in first 100 days and have a big impact on our lives now.
Thatcher was asked during her final Years what she considered her greatest achievement.
She answered tony bLIAR and New Labour.
She was asked again recently during a seance and she said Sir Block of Wood.
Poll of Polls (aggregates all the polls) Labour 44% Conservative 29% Lib-Dem 11% Green 6% Reform 6%
Been steady for a while the locals looked to be tactical voting at a huge scale anyone but a Tory
What could go wrong is Starmer will be another of Murdoch's a..e kissing Tories.
I was set to mention something not addressed - until David Gauke did so at 13:10 the Conservatives have been in power for a long time...
When they discussed voters being undecided of the two main parties due to some similarities in their pledges - I reckon for many despite this indecision they will simply want a change and sway to Labour for that - or vote for another smaller party/spoil paper.
I read Seb Coe's autobiography - very interesting to read that shortly after his '92 election win, John Major told his cabinet they will not win another general election, and i think tried to push through policies as much as they could, or at least that was the plan.
Ultimately in a democracy, a political party doesn't govern forever, and this is now 13 years including tough austerity for many, and even though he is an competent PM, I think Rishi Sunak was given the helm of a sinking ship, struck by two torpedoes from Johnson's scandals and Truss's devastating incompetence with the economy
I was apathetic until a few days ago, but I’ll vote Conservative at the next GE. Any future Labour government would build on Green Belt Land. As they know that most people in the Green Belt are not going to vote Labour anyway they have little to lose. As well as steadily losing this precious green space it will cause increased road congestion (with further surface deterioration), increased population density and put additional pressure on already hard-pressed services. We can of course kiss goodbye to our precious countryside but can the infrastructure where I live support Labour’s building targets?
They would also relax planning restrictions in order to meet mandatory targets. So, if you (like me) have successfully fought a planning application in the past then you must be prepared for a reversal if the application is re-submitted.
what could possibly go wrong, no clear manifesto possibly clearly most people dont like him
David Gauke should join the Lib Dems. We need good ex Tories in public life and their old party wont ever have them back.
Absolutely agree. They're all shouting into the wind trying to effect any change to the Conservative party in its current for. Gauke was a pretty competent minister, he should get back into politics.
I agree the electorate has lost trust in all parties, hence volatility in voting, I believe voters are voting against a party rather than for a party.
This would be a total devastation for the country. No, No No.
Labour can't have the Tories willingness to remove rights from ordinary people shown by these rabid Tories. In the last few days we have heard of two Tory voters disenfranchised because they didn't have ID. A young royalist lady arrested and imprisoned for 9 hours for no good reason. A Tory jack in office made complaints against 3 Labour activists and they were visited and harassed by the police who thendecided that there was no crime. He was then provided with a report of their activities. And now we have the secretary of state reprimanded in Parliament for revealing a huge change in British law to the Telegraph instead of to Parliament. She was reprimanded by the speaker but continued with the insouciant arrogance we have leaned to expect from Tories. The British constitution was supposed to work because people were 'good chaps' and behaved decently. This government is filled with arrogant 'cads and bounders' and the British constitution is dying.
The electorate are more volatile and the issues are too. Inflation and the financial state of Europe as a whole especially with the bad state of German finances caused by QE make promises like spending large on the green agenda quite a dangerous strategy. The money markets are ruthless as we know. Who is going to be the PM who reverses the ban on petrol and diesel cars after the election and will that become a topic this side of it?
Almost one year later and the forecast is still the one to make.
I hope he won't be PM
Even if a party gets 40% of the people who vote there will be a majority of the population who didnt vote for them and we are such a divided nation now they will struggle to govern and introduce moderate reforms without opponents and the press going into meltdown!!
Its interesting to hear people on the right say they have underestimated Keir and 'he knows exactly what he is doing', bc on the left his reputation has plummeted. Labour did well in the local elections primarily bc of bad Tory governance not bc Keir is particularly likeable or charismatic. If Rishi does a good job over the next 18months the GE could be close
I notice they never touched on immigration. I wonder why that is
GANGLE MARRRRRRRR
I would suggest who is Starmer, what does he stand for, the answer may be nothing, he's ditched all his leadership promises, he's flip flopped on every new pledge and he's become authoritarian. One thing that always bothers me is the disdain on political topics where the English talk about the SNP in a derogatory way. Of course, no one would have a coalition with the SNP. No one wants any input from the SNP because they actually deliver socialist policies and would show up Starmer for the charlatan that he is
I really do find this characterisation of the red wall as right wing seriously short sighted. For decades the red wall was and still is solidly economically left wing yes hence RED wall. Make no mistake Labour lost the red wall because they wouldn't respect the democratic result of the referendum. We want more democracy, more devolved power, more investment in the north. We have been ignored by London since time immemorial and people will vote for whoever will listen to us, not patronise and stereotype us with right wing soundbites like STOP THE BOATS, TOUGH ON CRIME, BS.
If Starmer gets in, it will be the final nail in the coffin of having a Socialist party in the UK. I'm investing in a pitchfork manufacturer today.
I was pretty sure that final nail was hammered in when Corbyn's Labour gave Boris Johnson an 80+ majority in 2019. Unsurprisingly it seems most of Corbyn's fans in Parliament have preferred to sit back rather than try to pick up that particular torch.
The UK population don't want socialism, because the media have convinced them it would be a terrible idea.
Scythes and brush hooks are useful, too.
Why does the New Statesman ignore the success of the Greens at the local elections the week before last?
I thought Andrew Marr was the wrong'un, it's actually Andrew Neil who's the bellend.
We need to change our system. It’s not great to have to choose between the Tories or Labour. At the same time a coalition will be 5 years of treading water which essentially is going backwards
Imagine the frowning Starmer on the world stage. I am sorry he just is not a leader. We need a visionary, someone to galvanize and inspire the country.
How did the Postal votes vote? Was it a high turnout?
The conservative party has a strategy to go after the front bench of the 'Labour Party'. The feeling is to leave the leader out of the debate. The shadow bench are all weak if not easily brought down. The soft underbelly.
this is a selfreferential statement
From my side of the fence 🙄
Starmer has only one chance. Saying absolutely nothing until after the election.
All as bad as other no matter who we vote for. He gets what he needs
Labour is not a silver bullet solution to the Tory political-economic devastation. Nevertheless, Labour is by far the better option. Tories should never ever be able to govern alone again. No ifs no buts prison for all Tory MP's. Plus anyone who even suggests the Tories are an option.
A majority for Nu-Blu-Labour would be an utter disaster. Hopefully they'll be the largest party, but without a majority.
excellent analysis
Everything
The comments are more interesting than the interview. Why ask a conservative what he thinks about conservatives?
Don’t worry about the Conservatives Kier, look behind you chap, it’s Angela Rayner and the hard left that will get rid of you.
What could go wrong? Well, that was the question to be asked when Cameron took over, then May, then Johnson, then Truss and then Sunak. Those five presided over a massive transfer of wealth from the middle and working classes to the already wealthy.
Starmer hopefully will reverse that.
Keir Starmer has been calm and calculated - and patient despite the silly 'Captain Hindsight ' comments ... And the rest.
I know he comes across as a bit boring - we need a boring politician that is calm and collected. He's playing the long game and it's working
He doesn't do detail and has no political principles.
Hope so😅
What you say about greenfield house building may be true in the Home Counties (I've never lived in them so can't comment) but the opposite is true in the red/blue wall for a few reasons: 1) Greenfield building will not reduce prices (rent or buy) in these areas, partly because prices are already relatively low and availability is already there. 2) The biggest beneficiaries are big business, like Tory donor Persimmon. 3) Privatisation, and the fragmentation it causes, directly feeds in to the "build, sell and run" house building which companies do with no thought for the wider long term implications including economic. Younger voters are turned off by Blairism, and the failed pro-privatisation experiment which happened under him (not to single him out, or Labour). 4) The young voters the Lib Dems are targeting are big on environmentalism. They won't vote for greenfield house building, miles away from the nearest town to have a train station. The resulting car ownership is another reason why building in these places is nonsensical. 5) Younger voters in these places are if anything more impacted by lack of public transport, something there is night and day between the Blairites and the Corbynites. This is also far more likely to drive them away and lose their votes. So there is a squeeze of people not voting for the party most likely to stop the Tories, and lack of public transport pushing people away from these areas, and people who should be voting Labour and Lib Dem even voting Tory. Durham County Council lost most of the County Durham seats in 2019 partly due to cosying up to the likes of Persimmon.
The build all over the green belt promise of Starmer will destroy plenty of areas. There isn’t a housing shortage that can be fixed by building houses. The reason they want to build houses is that this creates money and therefore growth.
House building in green belt in the south east is because the building companies make the maximum profit.
What we should be doing is building new large towns up north along with transport links to london. This should be built by public sector building companies to a good standard and to passiv haus standard. But it won’t because the big house builders have lobbying companies to push the government.
Starmer dosnt actually have any concrete proposals that he has costed.
The trouble with the tories is that they are incompetent because they though Corbyn made labour unelectable and have become complacent.
What pisses me off is people like this muppet being interviewed using the word NIMBY because they don’t live in the real world where you can’t get a GP appointment or even take stuff to the tip because of over housing. You won’t solve either of those problems by building more houses in over crowded areas.
I don’t see labour lasting 5 years, other than Blair. Labour don’t usually last that long. The tories need an actual conservative to put them back in number 10
Except that things are very different now these conservatives are mad extremists who will have to change far more than labour have
Better get some shovels then.
Harold Wilson
Love left wing comments on here aren’t you slightly disturbed your leader changes policy every five mins
A week in politics is a long time. All political careers end in failure.
He'll bore us to death thereby reducing the NHS waiting times? I'm not a conservative I just don't like Starmer, he lacks integrity!
Well I don't like any one of them. Can we have a political party who believes you can do what you want as long as you're not causing problems and harm to people?
Marr bringing his old BBC MSM bias to the debate. The Green candidate in the middle wasn't asked a question once. Disgraceful.