The "TV antenna" is for the type-517 radar, it looks that way because it's made up of multiple Yagi antennas operating in the VHF band. The longer wavelengths of VHF band give the radar a better chance of detecting stealth aircraft, since longer wavelengths can result in electromagnetic scattering in the Mie or Rayleigh regions which is less affected by optical region scattering due to stealth shaping techniques.
To add salt to the injury, there had been an image floating around of 5 Type 052DL under construction at the same time in a single dockyard in Dalian. That’s more than the number of destroyers that the Royal Navy can put to sea at the moment.
in Bohai they just finished the new yard for Subs crazy as it sounds 20 construction halls. Not saying they will build 20 ssn/ssbn at one time but they can....insane
@tylerrr3242 They are aware of that, they studied the Soviet Union's collapse intently, but tbh right now the Chinese navy is undersized for its economy, especially since they are decommissioning a lot of old vessels. The new standardized vessels will actually streamline maintenance and also reduce costs of upkeep with the expertise in construction developed, plus the civilian shipyards experience (China produces like 45+% of world's ships, South Korea the other half or so.
Yeah the Royal Navy doesn’t have AWACS planes so they just use a bunch of AWACS merlin helicopters which is actually better than a single AWACS because if one goes down the others just account for it
@@armymanaka360 Type 45 can in theory carry one Merlin HM1/HM2 or two Lynxes, The HM1 has better air surveillance capabilities but is still primarily an anti-surface type, the Lynx is optimised for surface search. There are a handful of Merlin HM2s some of which are fitted with Crowsnest air surveillance RADAR - these are in such short supply they will be reserved for carrier operations. So while in theory Type 45 can carry (and is cleared to carry) the “AWAC” anti-air variant of Merlin - it does not in practice due to a severe shortage of those types.
@@armymanaka360 Sure in exercises they will deploy them but in reality there aren't enough Merlins to satisfy actual RN requirements - particularly those fitted with Crowsnest.
@@armymanaka360No competent navy puts up a single a wax plane at a time. Let's take a look at the US navy. Aboard every single Carrier, there's 4 a wax planes. And there's 2 a wax being used when in a combat environment. And if you can shoot down an a rocks plane, you are probably able to shoot down an a wax helicopter a whole lot easier.
I am British but have always said we need to double the amount of VLS silos on board our Type 45, as it is an anti air destroyer, but I feel they insufficient amount of missiles carried for that role.
@@montys420- Yes, to part of the ship that was designed for the MK41 VLS. Apparently there may even be room for Sylver A70 cells further astern of where the CAMM launchers are going.
They are currently upgrading the weapons systems in the type 45's, of which one of the upgrads increases the amount of missiles each ship has from 48 to 72
Asters, especially the 30s are much much better than modded here. They are known to be better than the American SM family missiles when paired with the type 45’s incredibly powerful and accurate radars. Yes, I agree they don’t have enough but I’m afraid the Type 45’s and the asters are much much better than modded in DCS.
The YJ-18 is not China's most advanced anti-ship missile. However, the YJ-21 is, a hypersonic weapon. And the firing range is 800-1000km. As long as their relay guidance system is reliable. It is quite capable of launching a fatal attack on enemy ships from a distance of 900km.
@@ahboon8101 A range of 2000 kilometers is impossible. The official parameters released by the Chinese military are: full flight at Mach 6, terminal speed at Mach 10
Yeah but just a simple manouver and you are defeated that "ultimate" weapon... Hypersonic right? When the missile enters back to the atmosphere it will build up a "plasma" around itself because of the thickness of the air... The plasma will block everything. Guidance systems the missile radars everything. They will just fly to the "last known location". A quick reaction and a change of direction from the ships will defeat that missile. There is no way with that powerfull radar what the Type 45 got can not see a freaking missile coming down from the "space..." S band AESA Radar with 400km range like come on... Hypersonic missiles are good vs stationary targets... Go read about them and research about them. + the problem here too is the way how the Type 45 vessels wasting 10 missiles on 1 target.... One target one missile, this is what the Royal Navy stated. One target one missile... Not 10 missiles to the same target, thats wasting... Like literally wasting.... 1 target 1 Aster 30 or 15 depending on the range. Shame that it doesnt work in DCSs... Same about the Chinese Type 052D or 055 just wasting missiles for nothing. ONE TARGET ONE MISSILE. Such an easy thing to fix in the game but the DCs developers dont care about it.
@@sulyokpeter3941 The important parameters of the YJ-21 supersonic anti-ship missile were officially disclosed, this missile can carry out hypersonic cruise flight at a speed of Mach 6, and its terminal attack stage speed can reach up to Mach 10, which is also the world's first combat deployment of shipborne hypersonic anti-ship missiles, with 6 times the speed of sound cruise flight and 10 times the speed of sound terminal attack, the current global active air defense and anti-missile interception systems, can not carry out effective interception methods. Hypersonic missiles rely on infrared guidance to strike moving targets.
The thing that makes the Chinese navy so dangerous isn't just that their ships pack so many missiles. It's that all of their modern ships are built to form a single integrated force. The 055 and 052D for example are practically the same ship, just one is (a lot) bigger. That means ships share the same systems which greatly simplifies operations and makes them more effective when working together. It also means it's a lot easier to train crew as knowledge and skills will translate between vessels. It makes the ships cheaper too because of economies of scale, which also makes them faster to build, repair and easier to upgrade. An added benefit to all of that is the momentum of development in the Chinese navy. Due to the sheer number of ships being build the navy as well as the shipyards gain a lot of experience very quickly. We see this being translated in fast incremental upgrades to their ships. For example, the first type 055 ships were built with engines producing 30% more power than needed, implying improvements were already expected, and indeed there are already rumors that the latest type 055 ships under construction will be commissioned as type 055A upgraded ships. The same goes for the type 054 frigates. With 50 planned type 054A ships, of which 30 are commissioned and another 20 are either still planned or already under construction. While at the same time, China launched the first type 054B in August, with a second to be launched soon and possibly more already under construction. There simply isn't any other navy in the world that can produce that many ships at that speed. Let alone continuously upgrade them as they are building them.
Would love to see the german F124 in DCS. 32 cells with mostly ESSM and some SM-2`s, as well as 2 RAM-Launchers with each 21 missiles. 8 NSM and 2 MLG 27 CIWS from Rheinmetall. As far as I know there are also 3D Models of the ship available online.
Not all of them will be able to be used chines navy is more of a coastal defence force lacks logistics to even go fair britian will use type23 frigates along with the 45a and f35bs plus the rest of NATO’s navel power witch fight together
Said this on the previous video and I'll say again here. Sorry, but the Type 45 just isn't modelled correctly. They were literally designed to track and destroy targets like the YJ-18. Here's a quote from 2009: "Daring’s PAAMS air defence system can track over 1,000 objects simultaneously and order the ship’s 48 Aster missiles to destroy a tennis-ball sized target travelling at Mach 3." That is a harder target than the YJ-18. They also do this with an almost 90% efficacy rate due to their thrust-vectoring known as 'pif-paf'. Type 45s have the ability to deconflict targets with other Type 45s and NATO ships. On the mod, not only were lots of missiles missing, but they were also not being deconflicted at all.
@@hughmungus2760 they shouldn't be *that* difficult to shoot down in their terminal phase either. Mach 3 isn't that much of a challenge anymore. Type 45 has been doing tests as far back as 2020 against hypersonic targets and, while not perfect, it has faired better than a lot of people expected it to. This will be improved with the upgraded Sea Cepter that was discussed in the video. It'll also likely mean the removal of the Aster15 missiles and replaced with a full compliment of 48 Aster 30. But even before this, the YJ-18 should simply be an easy target for the Type 45 with a deconflicted almost 1-1 kill ratio, because that's exactly what this ship was designed to do and was capable of doing it way back in 2009.
@@LondonSteveLee same goes for most missiles, but they have been used extensively in testing and they have a great reputation for a reason. Friend of mine was serving on one during some NATO training before the ABs got their latest upgrades. He said that the rest of the NATO ships asked for the Type 45s to stop reacting because none of the other NATO ships were getting any training value. The Type 45 was detecting, tracking, engaging, and destroying all of the targets before the other ships could start tracking them.
@@skatman3278 Yes, they are bleeding edge in a few ways - interesting that the modelling chose to use ASTER 30 in engagements where ASTER 15 would be the correct choice. ASTER 15 has enough problems with minimum engagement profile - let alone ASTER 30! Terrible modelling.
The problem with the Type-45 is that it only has one set of VLS whereas the Type-052Ds and Type-055s have two. The Type-45 is what happens when you build a warship on a budget that has been gutted to nothing. One future battle I would love to see is a combined flotilla of 052Ds and 055s vs a combined flotilla of Burkes and Ticos.
Yes it's criminal - when the Navy accepted the order to be cut to 6 (from 12) Destroyers the promise was the remaining 6 are fully equipped to their full potential - pah - nowhere near!
YJ18 will be pulled up and accelerated to Mach 3 in the last period of attack, so this simulator does not actually simulate the real attack mode of YJ18.
Fantastic! now china finally has all its principle surface combatants modelled. I guess what you could try to implement next would be some Type 022s fast attack boats or wait for the Type 054B to come out this year.
Dang! SEIZURE WARNING 7:56 That muzzle flash off the 30mm made my brain hurt lol. To CH, could you be persuaded to add another camera angle for firing ship guns that is further back away from the muzzle flash? It obscures the impact. We like to see our booms. 🙂
@@georgedang449 true but the missiles do seem more effective when they fire later on and intercept with more speed. Also, as they discuss in the video, the Chinese missile should be subsonic until the terminal phase when it goes supersonic
Can you mod the Chinese fleets so they actually try a saturation attack, rather than so much waiting? At minimum, it seems they should shoot at least 2-3 ASMs per target per salvo.
I think the prices of the type-45s wrong - you are quoting the first in class, which was sold/billed to the government with a lot of testing/debug work attached to it. In contrast, when I looked it up in Hansard, HMS Dragon had a "net book value" of £343m one year after launch, which is what the giovernment had spent on it in total up to that point.
Proves why Type 45 defiantly needs the extra CAMM cells..... Not sure if it could be modelled but the ASTER missile uses a Piff-Paff system for terminal maneuvering specifically for dealing with very fast anti ship missiles and to give (probably) best in class terminal maneuvering ability, which doesn't seem to be fully accounted for here. has the very low RCS of NSM also been modelled?
Sea Ceptor was supposed to be the solution to the lack of missile problem, freeing up VLS cells for all ASTER 30s, or a mixture of ASTER 30 and NT if we decide to buy in to the project - NATO want us to convert Type 45 into a fully-fledged anti ICBM platform - the RADAR has already passed trials in this application. But constant critical underfunding has left Type 45 in a pitiful state.
052D actually does carry some HMGs like type 89 HMG and other small arms operating by onboard marines/ship crews. There are lots of pictures and video shows those 052Ds carry mounted HMGs in any operation involving anti-piracy mission. However, I doubt those HMG pods are modified by the ship crews/onboard marines.
I know that there is some issues and possibly some inaccuracies with the type 45 but I do hope that in the future we will get the type 45 with its upgraded SAMPSON multifunction radar plus it's extra Sea ceptor missiles and it's upgraded Aster 30 block 1 NT missile's !!
Yes, but modern AESA RADAR should have that capability too - Type 45 can track "stealth" aircraft at the maximum range dictated by the earth's curvature without resorting to longer wavelength RADAR. It shows that the Chinese systems are inferior to the Wests' - as long as they work I guess...
Loving all of CH's work. Would be cool if he added the Zumwalt with its hypersonic missile refit. I know it's a bit of a disaster of a ship in reality, but man do I love it anyway.
Can you guys model the Chinese Sovremenny-class destroyer after its refitting? They installed new missile systems on Hangzhou (136) and enchanced its air defences. I think China will upgrade in the similar way the rest three vessels of Sovremenny-class in their posession.
My suggestion to our dear British friends is to build your type 26 frigates as the upgunned missile frigate variant currently being offered to the Australian Navy, whereby the multi mission bay is being sacrificed and replaced with a second VLS ( 64 cells) giving it a total of 96 VLS & four quad packs of NSM ( ie 16 anti ship missiles )
Binkov says that one ship like this, specifically the one helecopter, could have completely changed the battle of Midway. I wonder if you guys could validate his assumptions.
Very entertaining video once again, thank you for chucking out content in this rate. Just one small thing. Could you make the money counter a little bit bigger? Because it's kinda hard to read, you have to really focus. If it was a little bigger it still wouldn't block the screen but it would be easier to read.
Can you give the ASMs a more unpredictable path to their targets rather than just firing them all on the same vector? In real life the NSM can be programmed to fly to different waypoints, ect before reaching their targets.
@@timphillips9954 "years late for WW2", bro, the fuck you talking about? Without the US Navy safeguarding convoys across the Atlantic, the Brits would never have held out through the blitz while also keeping their interests in the Mediterranean secure. If the US Navy hadn't been taking that load, the Royal Navy would have had to write off North Africa entirely.
Great video. I recently did some testing and found that 5 Visbys could take down a 055 but I'm not certain I set it up correctly. Might be worth running through your tests.
Our testing also showed the US can't handle a simple coronavirus outbreak. Over a million dead for a weapon that can be reengineered for less than a million bucks
052D use the same VLS as 055, so they would have YJ-21 as well. 055 is basically a bigger 052 with better sensors and sub systems, they uses the same weapons
All british/european stuff is way underpowered in all these videos. The aster 30 struggling to take down the chinese missiles when there have been multiple tests confirming aster 30 can shoot down supersonic (mach 2.5) ski skimming missiles
Avoiding or denying the existence of the problem is not a healthy coping strategy. Nor is it healthy to get angry or surrender yourself to the problem. Better to accept the problem, and start fixing it. In this context, it means the Royal Navy (and European navies in general) needs more and better warships. Preferably ASAP.
@lukio12 Exactly that, the GQM-163 Coyote is both smaller in diameter and length than the YJ-18 while flying a sea-skimming height of 5m and flying over mach 2.5 The Aster-30 was tested and succeeded against this, the same target drones the US uses. These same drones can fly at up to mach 4 terminal speed if flying from a higher altitude before doing a terminal dive. YJ-18 estimated at about 24' in length and 20" diameter, Coyote is about 18' in length and 14" diameter. I think it'd be more fair to also model decoys for other ships. For example, Arleigh Burke can have up to 8 Nulka and with Mk36 it'd be 36 more decoys since it uses mod 12 and it could potentially be FLYRT as the decoys loaded up. Not to mention the IDS300 floating decoys used also by the Royal Navy
Try the same scenario without the fixed wing airborne early warning platforms giving 20/20 battle space vision. Airborne early warning should only come from the aircraft the Destroyers can carry and operate themselves. That way it wouldn't be solely down to who has the biggest magazine of missiles.
How about making a match between Kirov Battle Cruiser and type 052d, please? I am curious about comparing a 7000tons modern destroyer with a 20000tons old cruiser.
Again there is the issue of not the target not turning out from the threat. Maybe wouldn't be that helpful but it would allow for overlapping coverage.
How about we put the type 052D up against an Australian Hobart Class AWD! - Particularly since it will soon be replacing its current load of Harpoon2s with SM2, SM6, LRASMs and NSMs as well as the TOMAHAWK5bs for maritime strike. ( also ESSM quad pack)
It’s not about which ship has slight edge. China shipyards can build entire royal navy tonnage in a year. It’s not even a comparison of same class navies
Ships are the hidden Gem of DCS... Would be great if they created a standard bridge to control these awesome machines instead of having to use the F10 menu.
ED should just hire the guy. Very high quality mods like this or stuff like the A4 or SRS would be an enrichment for DCS if they were included by default. At the very least an automatic mod downloader for joining servers that have mods, or an automatic updater would be nice.
Surely if you were a naval weapon designer making weapons that might be used against Chinese vessels, you'd be giving them attack patterns that prefer frontal approach to take out the C&C first and avoid the close-in missile systems? Also, if you can't link the ships for whatever reason, why do 4v4 and not just 1v1?
@@hughmungus2760 Yeah I get that, I just mean IRL, having seen that the new Chinese ships seem to have a bunch of their defensive weapons at the rear half of the ship.
Where did you hear about PAC-3 integration into the Arleigh Burke's Aegis Combat System? The SM-6 already fulfills that role in essence, as does SM-2 and ESSM for much shorter ranges. Plus, SM-3 is there for all sorts of longer ranged ballistic missiles. The SM-3 BlkIIA is even capable of intercepting ICBMs at some stages of flight
They are better than Harpoons but be aware, the NSM is specifically designed to be an interim missile whilst FC/ASW is being developed. Hence the reason we bought them over the much, much more expensive LRASM’s and the like. They are purely a.m stop gap measure.
The CWIS is amazing, but the muzzle flash is way too pronounced, you can barely see what you're shooting at... should be reduced or optionally even able to be turned off entirely.
I'd have to disagree a bit with the destroyer v destroyer duels because the west and the east(?) have different doctrines. While China and Russia use their ships as their main attackers(maybe for now, in China's case), western navies use aircraft as their main attackers. Hence Chinese and Russian ships tend to, if not always, have more and better anti-ship weaponry that their western counterparts. Anyway, props to CH for making another well done model!
A good last ditch defence in my armchair opinion would be large caliber metal storm guns to absolutely shred incoming missiles. Seriously go have a look at metal storm and see if it was of no use as a cwis option.
Every country seems to be focusing on fast or stealth anti ship missiles... why nobody is working on stealth anti ship missiles... that at some point go underwater to sink the ships? Ships have great anti-air capabilities but how many have great anti-torpedos capabilities as good as anti air defenses?? Where are the hypersonic torpedoes?
The yj 18 missile has a detachable warhead carrying rocket for supersonic terminal phase.
The "TV antenna" is for the type-517 radar, it looks that way because it's made up of multiple Yagi antennas operating in the VHF band. The longer wavelengths of VHF band give the radar a better chance of detecting stealth aircraft, since longer wavelengths can result in electromagnetic scattering in the Mie or Rayleigh regions which is less affected by optical region scattering due to stealth shaping techniques.
To add salt to the injury, there had been an image floating around of 5 Type 052DL under construction at the same time in a single dockyard in Dalian.
That’s more than the number of destroyers that the Royal Navy can put to sea at the moment.
That's just one shipyeard PLAN is laying down 10 052D in 2023
in Bohai they just finished the new yard for Subs crazy as it sounds 20 construction halls. Not saying they will build 20 ssn/ssbn at one time but they can....insane
@Tylerrr324 maintenance is only a problem if you don't have the shipyards when your ships need it.
@@hughmungus2760 Good thing most shipyards in the world are in China then
@tylerrr3242 They are aware of that, they studied the Soviet Union's collapse intently, but tbh right now the Chinese navy is undersized for its economy, especially since they are decommissioning a lot of old vessels. The new standardized vessels will actually streamline maintenance and also reduce costs of upkeep with the expertise in construction developed, plus the civilian shipyards experience (China produces like 45+% of world's ships, South Korea the other half or so.
6:00 If properly equipped, helicopters can be a useful tool for long range detection of surface vessels.
Yeah the Royal Navy doesn’t have AWACS planes so they just use a bunch of AWACS merlin helicopters which is actually better than a single AWACS because if one goes down the others just account for it
@@armymanaka360 Type 45 can in theory carry one Merlin HM1/HM2 or two Lynxes, The HM1 has better air surveillance capabilities but is still primarily an anti-surface type, the Lynx is optimised for surface search. There are a handful of Merlin HM2s some of which are fitted with Crowsnest air surveillance RADAR - these are in such short supply they will be reserved for carrier operations. So while in theory Type 45 can carry (and is cleared to carry) the “AWAC” anti-air variant of Merlin - it does not in practice due to a severe shortage of those types.
@@LondonSteveLee I was referring to their use in csg21
@@armymanaka360 Sure in exercises they will deploy them but in reality there aren't enough Merlins to satisfy actual RN requirements - particularly those fitted with Crowsnest.
@@armymanaka360No competent navy puts up a single a wax plane at a time. Let's take a look at the US navy. Aboard every single Carrier, there's 4 a wax planes. And there's 2 a wax being used when in a combat environment. And if you can shoot down an a rocks plane, you are probably able to shoot down an a wax helicopter a whole lot easier.
I am British but have always said we need to double the amount of VLS silos on board our Type 45, as it is an anti air destroyer, but I feel they insufficient amount of missiles carried for that role.
Arent CAM and CAM-ER cells being added??
@@montys420- Yes, to part of the ship that was designed for the MK41 VLS. Apparently there may even be room for Sylver A70 cells further astern of where the CAMM launchers are going.
u needs more ship....
And the lack of point defence means it has to be escorted by Type 23 - not clever when you are a tiny Navy trying to police the globe.
They are currently upgrading the weapons systems in the type 45's, of which one of the upgrads increases the amount of missiles each ship has from 48 to 72
Our Chinese 052D is only suitable for fishing. will not engage in war. . 052D is peaceful 052D.
Cannot agree more!. Indian navy is the strongest in the world. I strongly recommend UK and US seriously treat this mighty military power.
That is so TRUE. 052D is used for bombing fish.
@@larrysaul3795 Or rival fishing boats...
@@larrysaul3795 yeah, hope Uncle Sam don’t threat China no more.
全是战忽局的同志啊🎉
FYI, YJ 18's max range is more than 500 km, in fact around 600 km.
Will be nice to see this in future videos! Wasn't expecting this!
Asters, especially the 30s are much much better than modded here. They are known to be better than the American SM family missiles when paired with the type 45’s incredibly powerful and accurate radars. Yes, I agree they don’t have enough but I’m afraid the Type 45’s and the asters are much much better than modded in DCS.
I 100% agree wit you on this.
The YJ-18 is not China's most advanced anti-ship missile. However, the YJ-21 is, a hypersonic weapon. And the firing range is 800-1000km. As long as their relay guidance system is reliable. It is quite capable of launching a fatal attack on enemy ships from a distance of 900km.
Y21 250-2500km
@@ahboon8101 Your data is not reliable. 2500 km is too far for anti-ship missiles. It is unlikely to reach.
@@ahboon8101 A range of 2000 kilometers is impossible. The official parameters released by the Chinese military are: full flight at Mach 6, terminal speed at Mach 10
Yeah but just a simple manouver and you are defeated that "ultimate" weapon... Hypersonic right? When the missile enters back to the atmosphere it will build up a "plasma" around itself because of the thickness of the air... The plasma will block everything. Guidance systems the missile radars everything. They will just fly to the "last known location". A quick reaction and a change of direction from the ships will defeat that missile. There is no way with that powerfull radar what the Type 45 got can not see a freaking missile coming down from the "space..." S band AESA Radar with 400km range like come on... Hypersonic missiles are good vs stationary targets... Go read about them and research about them. + the problem here too is the way how the Type 45 vessels wasting 10 missiles on 1 target.... One target one missile, this is what the Royal Navy stated. One target one missile... Not 10 missiles to the same target, thats wasting... Like literally wasting.... 1 target 1 Aster 30 or 15 depending on the range. Shame that it doesnt work in DCSs... Same about the Chinese Type 052D or 055 just wasting missiles for nothing. ONE TARGET ONE MISSILE. Such an easy thing to fix in the game but the DCs developers dont care about it.
@@sulyokpeter3941 The important parameters of the YJ-21 supersonic anti-ship missile were officially disclosed, this missile can carry out hypersonic cruise flight at a speed of Mach 6, and its terminal attack stage speed can reach up to Mach 10, which is also the world's first combat deployment of shipborne hypersonic anti-ship missiles, with 6 times the speed of sound cruise flight and 10 times the speed of sound terminal attack, the current global active air defense and anti-missile interception systems, can not carry out effective interception methods. Hypersonic missiles rely on infrared guidance to strike moving targets.
The thing that makes the Chinese navy so dangerous isn't just that their ships pack so many missiles. It's that all of their modern ships are built to form a single integrated force. The 055 and 052D for example are practically the same ship, just one is (a lot) bigger. That means ships share the same systems which greatly simplifies operations and makes them more effective when working together.
It also means it's a lot easier to train crew as knowledge and skills will translate between vessels. It makes the ships cheaper too because of economies of scale, which also makes them faster to build, repair and easier to upgrade.
An added benefit to all of that is the momentum of development in the Chinese navy. Due to the sheer number of ships being build the navy as well as the shipyards gain a lot of experience very quickly. We see this being translated in fast incremental upgrades to their ships. For example, the first type 055 ships were built with engines producing 30% more power than needed, implying improvements were already expected, and indeed there are already rumors that the latest type 055 ships under construction will be commissioned as type 055A upgraded ships.
The same goes for the type 054 frigates. With 50 planned type 054A ships, of which 30 are commissioned and another 20 are either still planned or already under construction. While at the same time, China launched the first type 054B in August, with a second to be launched soon and possibly more already under construction.
There simply isn't any other navy in the world that can produce that many ships at that speed. Let alone continuously upgrade them as they are building them.
A load of BS, with nothing to back it up! china has been saying a lot of things, but their wares don't prove themselves.
Very well put, the Wall Street Journal did several videos about this
Would love to see the german F124 in DCS. 32 cells with mostly ESSM and some SM-2`s, as well as 2 RAM-Launchers with each 21 missiles. 8 NSM and 2 MLG 27 CIWS from Rheinmetall. As far as I know there are also 3D Models of the ship available online.
I didn;t even realise Germany had Frigates. Cool.
Chinese carrier battle group is now complete so we can expect some naval war games now.
actually in reality，Royal navy only have 6 type 45 and PLAN have nearly 30 type 052D. so each type 45 should against 5 type 052d in the same time.
Not to mention China's most advanced Type 055, eight of them already commissioned, and eight more to be launched in a year or two.
Not all of them will be able to be used chines navy is more of a coastal defence force lacks logistics to even go fair britian will use type23 frigates along with the 45a and f35bs plus the rest of NATO’s navel power witch fight together
In the battle just now, the Royal Navy of the British Empire lost 2/3 of all destroyers
Hahaha so much for the Royal Navy XD
@@Chickenworm9394 🤡
Great job CH. Truth sometimes sucks but it is what it is. Thanks GR!
It’s a GREAT DAY! Good job, CH!
Said this on the previous video and I'll say again here. Sorry, but the Type 45 just isn't modelled correctly. They were literally designed to track and destroy targets like the YJ-18. Here's a quote from 2009:
"Daring’s PAAMS air defence system can track over 1,000 objects simultaneously and order the ship’s 48 Aster missiles to destroy a tennis-ball sized target travelling at Mach 3."
That is a harder target than the YJ-18.
They also do this with an almost 90% efficacy rate due to their thrust-vectoring known as 'pif-paf'. Type 45s have the ability to deconflict targets with other Type 45s and NATO ships.
On the mod, not only were lots of missiles missing, but they were also not being deconflicted at all.
The RADAR is incredible - nobody really knows how good various ASTER missiles are - they've not really been used in anger.
yes the YJ18s are massively overpowered in this game, they should be easy to shoot down in their cruise phase when they're all moving subsonic.
@@hughmungus2760 they shouldn't be *that* difficult to shoot down in their terminal phase either. Mach 3 isn't that much of a challenge anymore. Type 45 has been doing tests as far back as 2020 against hypersonic targets and, while not perfect, it has faired better than a lot of people expected it to. This will be improved with the upgraded Sea Cepter that was discussed in the video. It'll also likely mean the removal of the Aster15 missiles and replaced with a full compliment of 48 Aster 30.
But even before this, the YJ-18 should simply be an easy target for the Type 45 with a deconflicted almost 1-1 kill ratio, because that's exactly what this ship was designed to do and was capable of doing it way back in 2009.
@@LondonSteveLee same goes for most missiles, but they have been used extensively in testing and they have a great reputation for a reason.
Friend of mine was serving on one during some NATO training before the ABs got their latest upgrades. He said that the rest of the NATO ships asked for the Type 45s to stop reacting because none of the other NATO ships were getting any training value. The Type 45 was detecting, tracking, engaging, and destroying all of the targets before the other ships could start tracking them.
@@skatman3278 Yes, they are bleeding edge in a few ways - interesting that the modelling chose to use ASTER 30 in engagements where ASTER 15 would be the correct choice. ASTER 15 has enough problems with minimum engagement profile - let alone ASTER 30! Terrible modelling.
The problem with the Type-45 is that it only has one set of VLS whereas the Type-052Ds and Type-055s have two. The Type-45 is what happens when you build a warship on a budget that has been gutted to nothing.
One future battle I would love to see is a combined flotilla of 052Ds and 055s vs a combined flotilla of Burkes and Ticos.
Yes it's criminal - when the Navy accepted the order to be cut to 6 (from 12) Destroyers the promise was the remaining 6 are fully equipped to their full potential - pah - nowhere near!
@@LondonSteveLee Did the original plan also call for the ships to have two sets of VLS?
As long as we get to watch it to the end and not just when the missiles run out.
@@Stinger522 That design never made it off the drawing board.
YJ18 will be pulled up and accelerated to Mach 3 in the last period of attack, so this simulator does not actually simulate the real attack mode of YJ18.
Fantastic! now china finally has all its principle surface combatants modelled.
I guess what you could try to implement next would be some Type 022s fast attack boats or wait for the Type 054B to come out this year.
Awesome vid cap
As i mentioned in more detail in the last Type 45 video, the Asters are way under-modeled.
I suspect the "pif-paf" system isn't even modeled.
And it fired ASTER 30 against targets that would be intercepted by ASTER 15.
I totally agree.
RN has 6 x Type 45, the PLA Navy has 40 x Type 052C/D/DL.
Just as a point of reference, MACH3 is roughly twice the speed of a rifle bullet, give or take. No wonder they are hard to hit.
Dang! SEIZURE WARNING 7:56 That muzzle flash off the 30mm made my brain hurt lol. To CH, could you be persuaded to add another camera angle for firing ship guns that is further back away from the muzzle flash? It obscures the impact. We like to see our booms. 🙂
The Aster missiles seem broken, in the sense they fire way too early and are useless when they actually reach their target
In this case, their targets are VASTLY harder to hit than the typical subsonic antiship missiles they're designed to intercept.
@@georgedang449 true but the missiles do seem more effective when they fire later on and intercept with more speed. Also, as they discuss in the video, the Chinese missile should be subsonic until the terminal phase when it goes supersonic
@@georud54 Well later firing means less time to intercept and more chance something will get through.
The older radar is China trying to counter stealth cause supposedly the modern stealth works against modern radar but not older radar
It would be awesome to see the hobart-class destroyer and type 45 together.
Ah the Imperial master and the expendable Australian Cannon fodder.
Brings back sweet memories of Gallipoli all over again
Can you mod the Chinese fleets so they actually try a saturation attack, rather than so much waiting? At minimum, it seems they should shoot at least 2-3 ASMs per target per salvo.
Time for Agentina to buy some 052D LOL
I think the prices of the type-45s wrong - you are quoting the first in class, which was sold/billed to the government with a lot of testing/debug work attached to it. In contrast, when I looked it up in Hansard, HMS Dragon had a "net book value" of £343m one year after launch, which is what the giovernment had spent on it in total up to that point.
At this point we could do a destroyer tournament, with each destroyer facing off one on one to another destroyer until the best one wins!
Proves why Type 45 defiantly needs the extra CAMM cells..... Not sure if it could be modelled but the ASTER missile uses a Piff-Paff system for terminal maneuvering specifically for dealing with very fast anti ship missiles and to give (probably) best in class terminal maneuvering ability, which doesn't seem to be fully accounted for here. has the very low RCS of NSM also been modelled?
Sea Ceptor was supposed to be the solution to the lack of missile problem, freeing up VLS cells for all ASTER 30s, or a mixture of ASTER 30 and NT if we decide to buy in to the project - NATO want us to convert Type 45 into a fully-fledged anti ICBM platform - the RADAR has already passed trials in this application. But constant critical underfunding has left Type 45 in a pitiful state.
it does make you wonder why western navies are all building new large destroyers with low numbers of VLS. Its like they want to lose.
@@hughmungus2760 Politicians want to destroy the west - they don't work for us.
kick ass, watching. thank you vvvvv
052D actually does carry some HMGs like type 89 HMG and other small arms operating by onboard marines/ship crews. There are lots of pictures and video shows those 052Ds carry mounted HMGs in any operation involving anti-piracy mission.
However, I doubt those HMG pods are modified by the ship crews/onboard marines.
not necessary. There is the remote-controlled close-in weapon system (CIWG) that is essentially a minigun.
Hi Cap! You make my evening👍
Great Video per usual
I know that there is some issues and possibly some inaccuracies with the type 45 but I do hope that in the future we will get the type 45 with its upgraded SAMPSON multifunction radar plus it's extra Sea ceptor missiles and it's upgraded Aster 30 block 1 NT missile's !!
Type 45s are critically under-funded - we learned nothing from the Falklands.
问题是CAMM ER只是计划增强中近距离防空，类似海麻雀导弹。
block30 1NT That is to say, the interception slant range reached 150 kilometers.
what other ships are in the works
Isn't the L-band radar on that to 'find' stealth aircraft? .. not good for pinpointing stealth, but good at determining they are out there somewhere.
Yes, but modern AESA RADAR should have that capability too - Type 45 can track "stealth" aircraft at the maximum range dictated by the earth's curvature without resorting to longer wavelength RADAR. It shows that the Chinese systems are inferior to the Wests' - as long as they work I guess...
Loving all of CH's work. Would be cool if he added the Zumwalt with its hypersonic missile refit. I know it's a bit of a disaster of a ship in reality, but man do I love it anyway.
What hypersonic missile?
@@georgedang449 Yo 21
CH the God of DCS
Can you guys model the Chinese Sovremenny-class destroyer after its refitting? They installed new missile systems on Hangzhou (136) and enchanced its air defences. I think China will upgrade in the similar way the rest three vessels of Sovremenny-class in their posession.
why bother upgrade 。。。 just get more 052d
Can you do a video on if NATO did an amphibious raid on Kuwait during desert storm?
My suggestion to our dear British friends is to build your type 26 frigates as the upgunned missile frigate variant currently being offered to the Australian Navy, whereby the multi mission bay is being sacrificed and replaced with a second VLS ( 64 cells) giving it a total of 96 VLS & four quad packs of NSM ( ie 16 anti ship missiles )
my advise is UK carrier group should not sail to SCS anytime soon...
Obviously 52 is better than 45. UK needs to rename their ships!
Type 999????
@@grimreapers That’ll do the trick (at least until chinese lauch their type 1001)
We may have had too few missiles, but we have the best music . . .
Rule Britannia and all that.
Binkov says that one ship like this, specifically the one helecopter, could have completely changed the battle of Midway. I wonder if you guys could validate his assumptions.
Yup we can do that.
Very entertaining video once again, thank you for chucking out content in this rate.
Just one small thing. Could you make the money counter a little bit bigger? Because it's kinda hard to read, you have to really focus. If it was a little bigger it still wouldn't block the screen but it would be easier to read.
CH thanks for the model Cap thanks for the boom boom
Pleasure
Boooom first. Cap I’m taking my son to the Duxford summer air show on june 24th (I think) and tickets for the goodwood festival of speed.
Awesome!
Whoop… boom, boom, mini bam, bam! Wonderful!
Royal Navy really need to hurry up with those upgrades to the Type 45 and give her the the increased VLS space. Think 24 extra missiles.
Can you give the ASMs a more unpredictable path to their targets rather than just firing them all on the same vector? In real life the NSM can be programmed to fly to different waypoints, ect before reaching their targets.
Model in the Australian Hobart class destroyer and that'll be a good match up.
052d is widely used in fishing to satisfy huge population demand.
Brittania has not, in fact, ruled the waves since Jutland. Y'all just been leaning on the US Navy to carry the load.
:p
Don't be a fool. The American Navy was years late for WW2 and never fired a shot in anger in WW1, LOL.
@@timphillips9954 "years late for WW2", bro, the fuck you talking about? Without the US Navy safeguarding convoys across the Atlantic, the Brits would never have held out through the blitz while also keeping their interests in the Mediterranean secure. If the US Navy hadn't been taking that load, the Royal Navy would have had to write off North Africa entirely.
Great video. More please.
Great video. I recently did some testing and found that 5 Visbys could take down a 055 but I'm not certain I set it up correctly. Might be worth running through your tests.
Our testing also showed the US can't handle a simple coronavirus outbreak. Over a million dead for a weapon that can be reengineered for less than a million bucks
052D use the same VLS as 055, so they would have YJ-21 as well. 055 is basically a bigger 052 with better sensors and sub systems, they uses the same weapons
@@cj64343 nope, that standard comes in 3, 7 and 9m.
Both YJ18 and YJ18 uses the 9m vls.
@@cj64343 from what I read, both 052d and 055 has 9m vls. Those cell are for cj10, yj18 and yj21
@@cj64343
>classified docs
I seriously doubt the PLAN will let you see their classified docs
@@cj64343 post link then
@@cj64343 "just trust be bro" is not a source
Warrior has been ingame for years, this version is maybe a higher fidelity version.
Maybe I just missed it!
My god, that CIWS is just the Woodchipper from Hell 😧😧
Well this is a mod and not accurate (I’m trying to cope)
All british/european stuff is way underpowered in all these videos. The aster 30 struggling to take down the chinese missiles when there have been multiple tests confirming aster 30 can shoot down supersonic (mach 2.5) ski skimming missiles
Agreed
Avoiding or denying the existence of the problem is not a healthy coping strategy. Nor is it healthy to get angry or surrender yourself to the problem. Better to accept the problem, and start fixing it.
In this context, it means the Royal Navy (and European navies in general) needs more and better warships. Preferably ASAP.
@lukio12 Exactly that, the GQM-163 Coyote is both smaller in diameter and length than the YJ-18 while flying a sea-skimming height of 5m and flying over mach 2.5
The Aster-30 was tested and succeeded against this, the same target drones the US uses. These same drones can fly at up to mach 4 terminal speed if flying from a higher altitude before doing a terminal dive. YJ-18 estimated at about 24' in length and 20" diameter, Coyote is about 18' in length and 14" diameter.
I think it'd be more fair to also model decoys for other ships. For example, Arleigh Burke can have up to 8 Nulka and with Mk36 it'd be 36 more decoys since it uses mod 12 and it could potentially be FLYRT as the decoys loaded up. Not to mention the IDS300 floating decoys used also by the Royal Navy
@@apolloaero Yh would be really good if they could find a way to implement the decoy systems that navies operate.
Try the same scenario without the fixed wing airborne early warning platforms giving 20/20 battle space vision. Airborne early warning should only come from the aircraft the Destroyers can carry and operate themselves. That way it wouldn't be solely down to who has the biggest magazine of missiles.
How about making a match between Kirov Battle Cruiser and type 052d, please? I am curious about comparing a 7000tons modern destroyer with a 20000tons old cruiser.
The old Kirov Class doesn't have modern electronic for nowadays warfair
kirov vs type 45 or type 052D
Again there is the issue of not the target not turning out from the threat. Maybe wouldn't be that helpful but it would allow for overlapping coverage.
Are you planning on adding Chinese Frigates and Corvettes models to DCS? Any amphibious ships maybe?
Bloody-Hell, knackered again Guvnuh!
How about we put the type 052D up against an Australian Hobart Class AWD! - Particularly since it will soon be replacing its current load of Harpoon2s with SM2, SM6, LRASMs and NSMs as well as the TOMAHAWK5bs for maritime strike. ( also ESSM quad pack)
It’s not about which ship has slight edge. China shipyards can build entire royal navy tonnage in a year. It’s not even a comparison of same class navies
Ships are the hidden Gem of DCS...
Would be great if they created a standard bridge to control these awesome machines instead of having to use the F10 menu.
Neato.
Respect for CH!
Are there plans to do the Type 21 frigate next?
Will ask.
YJ-18 means YingJi-18, meaning eagle attack-18
YJ, or short for YingJi in Chinese, means Eagle Swoop.
Shouldn't it better be Eagle Strike
ED should just hire the guy. Very high quality mods like this or stuff like the A4 or SRS would be an enrichment for DCS if they were included by default.
At the very least an automatic mod downloader for joining servers that have mods, or an automatic updater would be nice.
Could you do the zumwalt just for fun?
Next type 54 frigate vs birtish destroyer
Smile without a word,as long as U are happy
Surely if you were a naval weapon designer making weapons that might be used against Chinese vessels, you'd be giving them attack patterns that prefer frontal approach to take out the C&C first and avoid the close-in missile systems?
Also, if you can't link the ships for whatever reason, why do 4v4 and not just 1v1?
so far I've yet to see antiship weapons do midcourse corrections or have pre-programmed flightpaths in DCS
@@hughmungus2760 Yeah I get that, I just mean IRL, having seen that the new Chinese ships seem to have a bunch of their defensive weapons at the rear half of the ship.
Serious question - Type 051B destroyer WHEN?
Oh come on, 051B is an obsolete design
Real question is can a type 45 take out 334 killer robot cows?
I wonder how the PAC-3 Patriot will perform when integrated into Burke.
Where did you hear about PAC-3 integration into the Arleigh Burke's Aegis Combat System?
The SM-6 already fulfills that role in essence, as does SM-2 and ESSM for much shorter ranges. Plus, SM-3 is there for all sorts of longer ranged ballistic missiles. The SM-3 BlkIIA is even capable of intercepting ICBMs at some stages of flight
Le ciws phalanx il tire sur quoi ? Les Mouettes ?.
How do i get that scoreboard in the top right of your screen?
Saudi Arabia just placed order for 12 ships 052 from China.
I’d like to think the NSM performs better in real life otherwise it’s not better than a Harpoon really but with a lower payload
British NSM are much worse because - er - we don't have them. We don't have Harpoon either (onboard Type 45) taken off and given to Ukr.
They're already doing better than harpoons because they weren't engaged until they were
They are better than Harpoons but be aware, the NSM is specifically designed to be an interim missile whilst FC/ASW is being developed. Hence the reason we bought them over the much, much more expensive LRASM’s and the like. They are purely a.m stop gap measure.
That goes 2/3 of the Royal Navy's destroyer fleet
Please super cap do the gurshkov freight vs type 45
The CWIS is amazing, but the muzzle flash is way too pronounced, you can barely see what you're shooting at... should be reduced or optionally even able to be turned off entirely.
I'd have to disagree a bit with the destroyer v destroyer duels because the west and the east(?) have different doctrines. While China and Russia use their ships as their main attackers(maybe for now, in China's case), western navies use aircraft as their main attackers. Hence Chinese and Russian ships tend to, if not always, have more and better anti-ship weaponry that their western counterparts.
Anyway, props to CH for making another well done model!
UK doesn't even make its own naval fighter anymore
A good last ditch defence in my armchair opinion would be large caliber metal storm guns to absolutely shred incoming missiles. Seriously go have a look at metal storm and see if it was of no use as a cwis option.
Where can I download the mods in this simulation?
So which one of you has ever served? Done a anti missile drill? every shot down an enemy missile?
No. Have you?
Keep relaxed everyone, this ship 052D was used only for fishing 😅
Every country seems to be focusing on fast or stealth anti ship missiles... why nobody is working on stealth anti ship missiles... that at some point go underwater to sink the ships? Ships have great anti-air capabilities but how many have great anti-torpedos capabilities as good as anti air defenses??
Where are the hypersonic torpedoes?
Hypersonic torpedoes? Did you routinely fall asleep during physics at school?
It's always fun to watch these fights that never happen. Poor British army boys can't escape from a Chinese warship even in a navy video.😂😂