Thanks for this. I'm not a min/maxer or hardcore player but this has really helped me with my spellcaster build. I one shot Vellexia and almost her entire crew with a prismatic spray spell after respeccing based on your tips. Its like a whole different game now.
glad to hear it helped.... it really is about teaching how things can be done... I'm glad you realized the principles are the important part and the specifics are just for fun
@@Lorespire did this with my illusion lich who also got evocation and necromancy it just rekts people even early on i managed to 3 shot staunton and mingho in drezen
This is perfect for your build (there are two copies of these in the game): Magician's Ring: This ring grants the wearer a +5 competence bonus on all Use Magic Device skill checks and increases the save DC against all spells of the Illusion school the wearer casts by 2.
Awesome! THanks DarkPhoenix! That definitely adds to the build. Appreciate the info... I'll have to look up where to get those from. I'm sure I've seen it before but missed it in this one
that is extremely impressive. I've managed to eek out up to 46dc on overwhelming presence with Ember cross blooded fey but that is the tippy top. I can't imagine having such high dcs for all schools.
You can actually make this work for ridiculously high DC with Lich (arcane) and angel (holy) by merging spellbooks. As it will increase the caster level of your class by your mythic spellcasting level.
Enhanced Arsenal isn't supposed to work that way, that is a bug exploit. It won't work if you had taken either SF or SF and GSF in Illusion. That is actually one of the things the Tabletop Tweaks mods fixes.
Can you go into more detail on how you got the Con to Cha conversion from the undead bloodline? The capstone from that bloodline does not have that effect in my game. The only way to get this effect is to go with the Lich Mythic path in my testing.
Secondary bloodline mythic selection only available to sorcerer. It's there in his mythic skill page. Just select it as mythic feat and you will get bonus from it as high as your sorcerer level.
I added "The Covenant of the Inheritor"The Covenant of the Inheritor. This symbol of Iomedae, when placed on the belt, emits a holy aura. All party members within 30 feet get a +2 bonus to caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. Their weapons become Good-aligned and count as if they were made of cold iron. Would The Bound of Possibility be better? I'm playing demon mythic so Demon Rage and Demon Aspects now grant bonuses as if you were 3 mythic ranks higher.
After watching twice i still have no idea how to achieve what you set out to explain, perhaps going in order from start to finish with options sprinkled in between would be better then jumping around all over with your level 20 results.
Whoa der lil fella. Does the undead bloodline allow you to use your CHA as HP and AC? Do you have to get all 20 levels or do you just need the capstone ability?
The undead bloodline allows you to use compulsion spells on undead (which they are otherwise immune to). And as a Lich (Mythic Rank 8 or 9) you will lose Con and use Cha instead to determine HP. I know there are ways to get Cha for AC (Scaled Fist and Nature Mystery off the top of my head). Not sure he mentioned Cha for AC.
The capstone of the Undead bloodline alloys you to use CHA for HP and fortitude, as if you were an undead, instead of CON. This does not effect AC in any way. The Lich transformation make you an ACTUAL undead and does the same but Lorespire was a demon in this video, not a lich.
@@cuspofexposure8242 the capstone of the Undead bloodline does NOT have any effect on AC with regards to CHA. But it is supposed to effect HP. Is your CON bar a line instead of a number?
I'm sorry but I do not understand what you are asking here... can you be more specific and perhaps provide timestamps to the parts of the video you are referring to? All of the ideas pressented here are sound so I Should be able to explain what you want to know if I can better understand your question
@@Lorespire Maybe I misunderstood how expanded arsenal works, but it should give you all of the SR penetration and DC bonus feats that you get for other schools, right? So if you have expanded arsenal (illusion), and take school power (abjuration), you should also get +2 DC bonus for illusion. But if you take school power (illusion), you get the same +2 DC bonus for illusion, but not abjuration, assuming everything works the way I assumed, meaning that school power (abjuration) is strictly better.
Can someone explain to me what the difference between spell penetration and ascendant element are? Do they both work on the same stat? And just the spell pen is generic for all elements and the ascendant is specific to an element?
Many enemies in the game have a stat called “spell resistance.” This stat has to be rolled against by your caster in order to affect the enemy with the spell AT ALL. The roll is d20+caster level+modifiers. If this roll is failed, your casters spell doesn’t even hit them. Enemies may also have resistance to any one of, multiple of, or all the elements. 20 fire resistance for example reduces all fire damage they take by 20, regardless of source. There is no roll against this. It works like damage reduction. Ascendant element bypasses and form of elemental resistance of a target your caster targets. Hope I simplified it.
*edit Ascendant element bypasses any form of elemental resistance of the element you take AE for. Yes you can take AE for every element but that’s generally wasteful.
Great Question Jarred. And Franklin gave an excellent answer. THe only thing I would like to add (just to make it completely clear) is that spell resistance is necessary for nearly every offensive caster. Even with ascendant element fire (or any element) the enemy's spell resistance can completely negate your fire spell, so you'll want to get Spell penetration to go with your ascendant element. I suggest both spell penetration feats and mythic spell penetration if you are playing on core difficulty or above... additional spell penetraion is probably a good idea if you are playing on hard/unfair. Anyways, if you have any more questions be sure to ask and feel free to join our discord where you can get real time answers to questions like these and others from the community - here's an invite link for the discord - ua-cam.com/video/sdye1NK5qm4/v-deo.html
aye, so much of what used to be possible was a bug exploit and after thousands of hours of playtime and hundreds of videos covering the game i did finally move on
yes demon do great with dc but thats only bc deskari of all bosses is not immune to mind affecting effects. also arcanist is better in terms of having highest dc
Thanks for letting me know this FRZKHRX, but it isn't just deskari... at the end of the video I demonstrate it on Areelu as well. Also, the one shot thing was mostly just to grab peoples attention the real point of the Video is to show people how they can build for ultra High Spell DC that works even on unfair. It can be done for any school and with any mythic path (not to the same level, but still high enough to be made effective). I just went with the illusion school and demon mythic path for more dramatic effect.
@@АнтонСтепанов-ъ2у thats true but it was bugged some time before, well some time before the 4 month i commented, it doesnt work at all which makes cc immunities on bosses really hard to deal with or you go lich but whatever, nobody hardly plays the game anymore, at least until a new dlc drops
So wait, your Headband does stack with Eagle's Splendor, does it? It didn't seem to, but you mentioned it in buffs and I started wondering about headbands and whether you skipped them but then you showed the headband.
I can't manage to recreate this build no matter what i do the closest i can get with lv9 PhK is 50 10 lower than you have they changed some of the bonuses? or can you write out everything you using and the class feats and mythics feats you are using?
sorry i didn't explain it better... spell focus and greater spell focus for conjuration. THen spell penetration, spell focus abjuration, greater spell penetration, persistent metamagic, heighten metamagic, greater spell focus abjuration then spell focus enchantment and greater spell focus enchantment. That's all of the feats in order, mythic feats are expanded magic school illusion then spell focus conjuration , spell focus abjuration, spell penetration mythic and then spell focus enchantment... you need to be a half elf to start with 22 charisma and then max your charisma as you level. get the profane acension bonus by acceptiong nocticula's gift and then put on as much plus charisma gear as you can... you have to be a demon and use demonic rage with the aspect of succubus, aspect of nabasu, aspect of incubus and aspect of socothbonoth active... you do not have to have all of these active to be effective but to be the absolute most effective you need all of these things.... also you should use your overwhelming spell ability that you getfrom the overwhelming mage archetype of the sorcerer class and you should have the arcane bloodline. with all of that you should be able to oneshot demonlords with weird and/or phantasmal killer.... also you should have staff of the war mage and magicians ring which are easily attainable items... aside from that there isn't much to say.... make sure you have the best charisma gear you can get and anything else that increases spell dc or illusion spell dc
only issue i have with this build is why on your arcane bloodline did you choose illusion as your school choice of dc? wouldn't that be better off in another school since illusion would already get that benefit from expanded arsenal?
@@grone1778 yes but doesnt it also stack with expanded arsenal? why take 2dc when you can get 4 is my question (2 in some other school, then 2 from expanded arsenal).
No idea how you managed to make it so that you got to replace con with cha but i did a quick build like yours and it didnt work. Must be a bug in your version
iv got a sneaking feeling that they made this on the version of the game were demon and lich's con setup unstead of normal or they made this build using a very maxed out toybox setup to alter their stats
@@lordsathariel4384I know this is probly pointless to message this here It's because he has the undead bloodline that makes you undead at level 20 until they changed it after a patch itdoesn't work like this in game any more but in the table top it does.
@@rayclawicefire2503 ye i know that's what i meant when i said the demon lich con setup because in the first 3 months of wrath the undead bloodline gave you the lich con score conversion to charisma meaning if you went undead and charisma based build you could end up getting crazy constitution as a sorcerer arcanist or bard
you could use it with a kitsune no problem.... there is no disadvantage here for a kitsune. you would not be fully utilizing their their natural talents with enchantments but you could tweak the build towards enchantments if you wanted. Not being a half elf would decrease your charisma a bit which would lower your spell effectiveness a bit but it shouldn't make much of a difference on lower difficulties and even on unfair it would still be viable.... just a little less effective. hope that helps. Let us know how your playthrough goes
This build may actually be better on Azata. Just make sure you take Zippy Magic when it becomes available so you can make your targets roll twice against your dc and take the lower result
@@Lorespire Yea. It's a good video, but it's hard to see which part of the screen you're talking about. You're obviously hovering over abilities. Just don't know which ones ^_^
Deskari not being immune to death spells is a joke. So any lvl 7 Wizard can kill Deskari with one Phantasm Killer if Deskari rolls a double 1. Nah that's just bad Lore sorry. Or we can use scrolls at lvl 1, right? Ok let's just get 100 x lvl one Wizards each with a scroll of Phantasm Killer and the world is saved.
in the older versions of pathfinder wrath the undead bloodline at 20th level made you use charisma unstead of con for hp like the lich mythic but they changed it because it really took away from going lich same as the issue of loremaster used to be able to use trickster tricks meant no point in going trickster
the game is so full of bugs its hard to know what is or isn't..... anyways, given how unfair unfair is i suggest exploiting whatever you have to at that level...
Thanks for this. I'm not a min/maxer or hardcore player but this has really helped me with my spellcaster build. I one shot Vellexia and almost her entire crew with a prismatic spray spell after respeccing based on your tips. Its like a whole different game now.
glad to hear it helped.... it really is about teaching how things can be done... I'm glad you realized the principles are the important part and the specifics are just for fun
@@Lorespire did this with my illusion lich who also got evocation and necromancy it just rekts people even early on i managed to 3 shot staunton and mingho in drezen
This is perfect for your build (there are two copies of these in the game):
Magician's Ring: This ring grants the wearer a +5 competence bonus on all Use Magic Device skill checks and increases the save DC against all spells of the Illusion school the wearer casts by 2.
Awesome! THanks DarkPhoenix! That definitely adds to the build. Appreciate the info... I'll have to look up where to get those from. I'm sure I've seen it before but missed it in this one
@@Lorespire One of the early crusade conquests gives you one.
that is extremely impressive. I've managed to eek out up to 46dc on overwhelming presence with Ember cross blooded fey but that is the tippy top. I can't imagine having such high dcs for all schools.
Looks awesome, but what does character creation look like?
You can actually make this work for ridiculously high DC with Lich (arcane) and angel (holy) by merging spellbooks. As it will increase the caster level of your class by your mythic spellcasting level.
I don't think that's true, Caster level doesn't increase the DC. However your Spell level and the Casting Stats do.
Can you explain the stats like what you put for level one ?
I was not aware of the multiple spell focus and expanded arsenal trick... damn.. means I might have to rethink my Winter Witch build.
It's a bug.
Enhanced Arsenal isn't supposed to work that way, that is a bug exploit. It won't work if you had taken either SF or SF and GSF in Illusion.
That is actually one of the things the Tabletop Tweaks mods fixes.
Can you go into more detail on how you got the Con to Cha conversion from the undead bloodline? The capstone from that bloodline does not have that effect in my game. The only way to get this effect is to go with the Lich Mythic path in my testing.
Secondary bloodline mythic selection only available to sorcerer. It's there in his mythic skill page. Just select it as mythic feat and you will get bonus from it as high as your sorcerer level.
I added "The Covenant of the Inheritor"The Covenant of the Inheritor. This symbol of Iomedae, when placed on the belt, emits a holy aura. All party members within 30 feet get a +2 bonus to caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. Their weapons become Good-aligned and count as if they were made of cold iron. Would The Bound of Possibility be better? I'm playing demon mythic so Demon Rage and Demon Aspects now grant bonuses as if you were 3 mythic ranks higher.
After watching twice i still have no idea how to achieve what you set out to explain, perhaps going in order from start to finish with options sprinkled in between would be better then jumping around all over with your level 20 results.
Whoa der lil fella.
Does the undead bloodline allow you to use your CHA as HP and AC?
Do you have to get all 20 levels or do you just need the capstone ability?
The undead bloodline allows you to use compulsion spells on undead (which they are otherwise immune to). And as a Lich (Mythic Rank 8 or 9) you will lose Con and use Cha instead to determine HP. I know there are ways to get Cha for AC (Scaled Fist and Nature Mystery off the top of my head). Not sure he mentioned Cha for AC.
The capstone of the Undead bloodline alloys you to use CHA for HP and fortitude, as if you were an undead, instead of CON. This does not effect AC in any way.
The Lich transformation make you an ACTUAL undead and does the same but Lorespire was a demon in this video, not a lich.
@@franklinxavierdixon2231 I got it. It doesn't seem to make my charisma to AC or my HP. Is it a modded thing?
@@cuspofexposure8242 the capstone of the Undead bloodline does NOT have any effect on AC with regards to CHA. But it is supposed to effect HP.
Is your CON bar a line instead of a number?
@@franklinxavierdixon2231 nah its still on the same # -7, cuz i thought it would replace con mod. :)
Wouldn't taking a different school for School power be a better idea because you would get +2 Illusion from it anyway via expanded arsenal?
I'm sorry but I do not understand what you are asking here... can you be more specific and perhaps provide timestamps to the parts of the video you are referring to? All of the ideas pressented here are sound so I Should be able to explain what you want to know if I can better understand your question
@@Lorespire Maybe I misunderstood how expanded arsenal works, but it should give you all of the SR penetration and DC bonus feats that you get for other schools, right? So if you have expanded arsenal (illusion), and take school power (abjuration), you should also get +2 DC bonus for illusion. But if you take school power (illusion), you get the same +2 DC bonus for illusion, but not abjuration, assuming everything works the way I assumed, meaning that school power (abjuration) is strictly better.
Can someone explain to me what the difference between spell penetration and ascendant element are? Do they both work on the same stat? And just the spell pen is generic for all elements and the ascendant is specific to an element?
Many enemies in the game have a stat called “spell resistance.” This stat has to be rolled against by your caster in order to affect the enemy with the spell AT ALL.
The roll is d20+caster level+modifiers. If this roll is failed, your casters spell doesn’t even hit them.
Enemies may also have resistance to any one of, multiple of, or all the elements. 20 fire resistance for example reduces all fire damage they take by 20, regardless of source.
There is no roll against this. It works like damage reduction. Ascendant element bypasses and form of elemental resistance of a target your caster targets.
Hope I simplified it.
*edit
Ascendant element bypasses any form of elemental resistance of the element you take AE for. Yes you can take AE for every element but that’s generally wasteful.
Great Question Jarred. And Franklin gave an excellent answer. THe only thing I would like to add (just to make it completely clear) is that spell resistance is necessary for nearly every offensive caster. Even with ascendant element fire (or any element) the enemy's spell resistance can completely negate your fire spell, so you'll want to get Spell penetration to go with your ascendant element. I suggest both spell penetration feats and mythic spell penetration if you are playing on core difficulty or above... additional spell penetraion is probably a good idea if you are playing on hard/unfair. Anyways, if you have any more questions be sure to ask and feel free to join our discord where you can get real time answers to questions like these and others from the community - here's an invite link for the discord - ua-cam.com/video/sdye1NK5qm4/v-deo.html
Thanks for the Great answer Franklin!
did you make another updated video this 1 is 8 months old and from what im seeing its a non optimal build.
Fuckin' A.
Learned a lot. Thanks!
You just "forgot" an item that you need to remove their immunity to weird.
So for anyone visiting now: this was a bug exploit, and the channel doesn't play the game anymore.
aye, so much of what used to be possible was a bug exploit and after thousands of hours of playtime and hundreds of videos covering the game i did finally move on
while yes, getting that high of spell dc doesnt need the exploit, there are other ways to get dc that high or eve higher.
Any thoughts on top spell DC now that the Mythic power was fixed?
I'm sorry to say I haven't played the game in a while... if these strats no longer work I have nothing for you atm.... sorry
yes demon do great with dc but thats only bc deskari of all bosses is not immune to mind affecting effects.
also arcanist is better in terms of having highest dc
Thanks for letting me know this FRZKHRX, but it isn't just deskari... at the end of the video I demonstrate it on Areelu as well. Also, the one shot thing was mostly just to grab peoples attention the real point of the Video is to show people how they can build for ultra High Spell DC that works even on unfair. It can be done for any school and with any mythic path (not to the same level, but still high enough to be made effective). I just went with the illusion school and demon mythic path for more dramatic effect.
You use grandmasters rod to bypass mind affecting immunities for Weird.
@@АнтонСтепанов-ъ2у thats true but it was bugged some time before, well some time before the 4 month i commented, it doesnt work at all which makes cc immunities on bosses really hard to deal with or you go lich
but whatever, nobody hardly plays the game anymore, at least until a new dlc drops
Was this ever fixed or adjusted by Owlcat? Does it still work with the current version of the game?
So wait, your Headband does stack with Eagle's Splendor, does it? It didn't seem to, but you mentioned it in buffs and I started wondering about headbands and whether you skipped them but then you showed the headband.
Hellow! I’ve been looking for a build just like this! But I don’t know if this still works on current patch. Any idea if it does?
This does not work anymore - they fixed it.
I can't manage to recreate this build no matter what i do the closest i can get with lv9 PhK is 50 10 lower than you have they changed some of the bonuses? or can you write out everything you using and the class feats and mythics feats you are using?
sorry i didn't explain it better... spell focus and greater spell focus for conjuration. THen spell penetration, spell focus abjuration, greater spell penetration, persistent metamagic, heighten metamagic, greater spell focus abjuration then spell focus enchantment and greater spell focus enchantment. That's all of the feats in order, mythic feats are expanded magic school illusion then spell focus conjuration , spell focus abjuration, spell penetration mythic and then spell focus enchantment... you need to be a half elf to start with 22 charisma and then max your charisma as you level. get the profane acension bonus by acceptiong nocticula's gift and then put on as much plus charisma gear as you can... you have to be a demon and use demonic rage with the aspect of succubus, aspect of nabasu, aspect of incubus and aspect of socothbonoth active... you do not have to have all of these active to be effective but to be the absolute most effective you need all of these things.... also you should use your overwhelming spell ability that you getfrom the overwhelming mage archetype of the sorcerer class and you should have the arcane bloodline. with all of that you should be able to oneshot demonlords with weird and/or phantasmal killer.... also you should have staff of the war mage and magicians ring which are easily attainable items... aside from that there isn't much to say.... make sure you have the best charisma gear you can get and anything else that increases spell dc or illusion spell dc
@@Lorespire what's the point in anything other than one items that gives you +6 Charisma since they don't stack with others?
@@MrAdamw117 if you played the older versions of pathfinder find specific items or had toybox their are ways were the charisma bonuses stack
only issue i have with this build is why on your arcane bloodline did you choose illusion as your school choice of dc? wouldn't that be better off in another school since illusion would already get that benefit from expanded arsenal?
School of Magic stacks with SF
@@grone1778 yes but doesnt it also stack with expanded arsenal? why take 2dc when you can get 4 is my question (2 in some other school, then 2 from expanded arsenal).
No idea how you managed to make it so that you got to replace con with cha but i did a quick build like yours and it didnt work. Must be a bug in your version
iv got a sneaking feeling that they made this on the version of the game were demon and lich's con setup unstead of normal or they made this build using a very maxed out toybox setup to alter their stats
@@lordsathariel4384I know this is probly pointless to message this here It's because he has the undead bloodline that makes you undead at level 20 until they changed it after a patch itdoesn't work like this in game any more but in the table top it does.
@@rayclawicefire2503 ye i know that's what i meant when i said the demon lich con setup because in the first 3 months of wrath the undead bloodline gave you the lich con score conversion to charisma meaning if you went undead and charisma based build you could end up getting crazy constitution as a sorcerer arcanist or bard
Did this get patched?
New to the game. Could I use this build with a Kitsune? Would there be a disadvantage?
you could use it with a kitsune no problem.... there is no disadvantage here for a kitsune. you would not be fully utilizing their their natural talents with enchantments but you could tweak the build towards enchantments if you wanted. Not being a half elf would decrease your charisma a bit which would lower your spell effectiveness a bit but it shouldn't make much of a difference on lower difficulties and even on unfair it would still be viable.... just a little less effective. hope that helps. Let us know how your playthrough goes
Can this build work well with Azata mythic path instead of demon? For those of us who want to be good guy sorcerers?
This build may actually be better on Azata. Just make sure you take Zippy Magic when it becomes available so you can make your targets roll twice against your dc and take the lower result
@@brodybunn3804 this caster build to me seems like it would be strongest on azata or lich since their feats can really buff magic into the roof
Lich can achieve highest DC in the game. :)
awww come on now. You can't just drop a bomb like that and not tell us how... Lich is my favorite MP - I'm Dying to know!
Kind of annoying you cannot see your mouse so we don't know what you're pointing at.
Hmmm... perhaps you're right... I'll fix this in future videos. THanks for the advice!
@@Lorespire Yea. It's a good video, but it's hard to see which part of the screen you're talking about. You're obviously hovering over abilities. Just don't know which ones ^_^
Deskari not being immune to death spells is a joke.
So any lvl 7 Wizard can kill Deskari with one Phantasm Killer if Deskari rolls a double 1.
Nah that's just bad Lore sorry. Or we can use scrolls at lvl 1, right?
Ok let's just get 100 x lvl one Wizards each with a scroll of Phantasm Killer and the world is saved.
Basically abusing an unfixed bug. Hope they'll attend to it some day...
Seeker is better
Playback speed: 2x .. you're welcome
so... the undead bloodline doesn't turn you undead. which means mods. which means the entire thing is bullshit.
in the older versions of pathfinder wrath the undead bloodline at 20th level made you use charisma unstead of con for hp like the lich mythic but they changed it because it really took away from going lich same as the issue of loremaster used to be able to use trickster tricks meant no point in going trickster
Bug exploit. Boring.
Bug exploit 🙄
the game is so full of bugs its hard to know what is or isn't..... anyways, given how unfair unfair is i suggest exploiting whatever you have to at that level...
Can you do a level by level bud