Listening to this, it made me realize something about the industrial revolution; it never really stopped.. We're all just living in a world of perpetual Industrial Evolution now, which I'd hazard is probably a net-positive thing on balance, over the long term. 🤔 TY both for a great and thought provoking podcast 👍🏼
Hmmm... not entirely convinced about that. I suppose it depends how you measure it. Environmentally-speaking I'd say you are very wrong - but that's not to say we can't have industrial 'progress' and not take care of the environment, too, of course. We just have to accept the cost of doing that. In terms of technology - with all the pros and cons that brings for humanity - then I think you are 100% correct. The question is, how far are 'we' (by which I mean governments and their financial/power/political bed-fellows) going to have go before we realise we have gone too far?
I've now listened to the whole interview with Ed, wow that was fascinating I've saved the video because I'm going to have to listen to it again lots of interesting facts and things talked about in this interview, it's probably one of the best Bob's done so far, definitely hope we get to see Ed Conway again on the channel, I shall buy a copy of his book.
Need more of Ed Conway. A fantastic guest and I never realised he was so into energy and environment. Evolution is what we are doing and this happens as we discover things we were doing are no longer good. Asbestos is another example of things once thought good but now very bad as our understanding grew. EV's, solar, wind are all part of this journey to find a more friendly way to our planet. Can we get Ed at the Fully Charged live shows?
Very interesting conversation, more of him please! In the mid 1700s Sweden had something like 50% of the world export of iron because we still had forests to turn into charcoal. Then someone worked out how to make coal into coke for iron production and then the industrial revolution really kicked off.
Something that stuck in my mind for years was a chemist being interviewed by the BBC, 10 years or more ago. "People in the future will declare us mad for burning oil and gas, which is needed for the production of many valuable products." A whole list, including fertilizers medicines, if I remember correctly.
I have worked in sustainable building for 35 years and have always worked to minimise cement and concrete. I use metal screw piles to support a timber floor and then SIPs for the shell of an airtight building. I contend concrete is one of the greatest polluters after oil because of the embodied energy.
Truly amazing facts and especially showing that nothing is as simple as "can't see just". I can see an opportunity for a connections type programme where coal saved the trees, oil saved us from coal and saved the whale etc.
Brilliant interview and great to be able to put a face and identity to Ed as I'm also reading the book in question, as a result of it being mentioned in past FC podcasts. Just about to finish the sand chapter, and haven't cheated as Robert has, so very much looking forward to the upcoming subjects/chapters. Another interview with Ed would be brilliant and very much looking forward to it.
Have you read Vaclav Smil's book, it also puts scale and perspective on things. The small amount of iron ore mined, is because only 10% is "new" and 90% is recycled, along with aluminium it is one of the most recycled. Thats why Electric Arc Furnaces, which only charge scrap is based on diminishing returns.
The problem with us now wanting sustainability is that we have an economic 'system' that absolutely DEMANDS infinite growth in order to 'work' and the only possible way I can see that we could get ourselves out of it would be to make it financially worthwhile for people to SHARE the jobs we would agree we NEED to have done and work much less. The system would still 'work' but economic growth would not be required.
Thank you for the interview with Ed Conway. I was expecting a one hour lecture on how horrible fossil fuels are and that we should stop using it altogether. However, the conversation you had with him was fascinating and informative. I’m a big fan of EVs because I’d love it if the world was less dependent on the Middle East. I do agree that it will be extremely difficult to wean ourselves off fossil fuels and that they should be part of an overall energy mix in the future. You have a great show, keep up the good work!
I’ve never thought about how everything around me came out of the ground! It suddenly shifts your perspective and creates a better understanding of the developed world. The other comment about that ‘there is still hope’ is something I’ll cling on to despite my feeling of despair at humankind and it’s destructive zeal.
26:36 that pipe is part of a network laid during WWII between all the airfields & military bases & connecting to all the oil refineries. When driving down the road look for black & white horizontally-striped posts with a yellow cap, if you stand beside one you can see the next one in either direction. I would like to see a map but it's probably still a State Secret.
I have to admit I'm not worried about the climate, BUT I am a gear-head and I love the EV technology. I'm very happy with my decision to purchase an EV and at least I feel like I'm doing my part for cleaner air. Also, to pass by the gas stations is pretty fun. I haven't purchased any petrol in several months and charging at home during "off-peak" is wonderful. My electric bill has not gone up. For anyone that is on the fence about buying an EV, education is important but I think it's a great idea. I will never buy anrother ICE vehicle. I am looking forward to new battery technologies with higher energy density and faster charge rates. Some day an EV will have range on par or greater than ICE vehicles, at that point there will be no excuses.
Ed's point about how we've become/becoming increasingly divorced about how stuff is made, where raw materials come from etc, reminds me of how I often reflect on how long it would take for modern civilisation to become a historical curiosity because nobody knows how to make anything anymore or how to repair thousands items we take for granted, primarily in the developed world, in our daily lives. Within one to two hundred years modern conveniences would have to have largely turned into junk or disappeared For example: a toaster or an electric kettle. These two everyday items are rarely, if ever, repaired, don't have a very long lifespan, and due to costs associated with repairs & general lack of repair shops, are chucked into the bin before buying a new one. It would be fantastic to be able to, at the very least, recycle them, but in Swansea City for example, there's no kerbside e-waste provision, recycling facilities for e-waste make having access to/use of a car, a necessity, and the WEEE Directive allows retailers to charge for e-waste disposal that in the case of a typical value toaster or kettle, has a tendency to be at or greater than the cost of a new item; very few would bother with WEEE directive collection as things stand.
This is your best video. Loved it. Getting the book. Robert there is always something we will learn and someone will have great brains superfluous journalist.
Love listening to EVs, sustainability, green tech podcasts, Robert and the team at Fully Charged keep up with great work, spreading words about everything electric 😊❤❤ With love from sLOVEnia ❤❤
Do have a look at the Just Have A Think video on refining oil. It turns out that we can reconfigure refineries to meet the new demands of crude oil distillates avoiding creating petroleum and diesel.
From my research, which includes the mining and refining of minerals, we are reinventing the wheel and making it square, whilst at the same time expecting it to be more productive.
28:08 refineries fascinate me too, especially the _"cat cracker",_ they can take in anything that will compost plus plastics & pretty much any hydrocarbon, the cat crackers smash it into component atoms which are reassembled & out the other end pops whatever hydrocarbons you want. The main products (methane, "natural" gas, petrol, kerosene, jet fuel, Diesel, bunker fuel for ships etc) are separated off first by fractional distillation as you describe but then it gets interesting...
As an Electrical Engineer, it is annoying how many electricians, technicians and line workers subscribe to the fossil fuel narratives on the grid. My usual answer is "if you can cook you can charge".
Great discussion. My thoughts are: 1. The overarching problem is overpopulation. World resources may be able to support 2 billion people. Europe and North America need to reshore manufacturing. 3. We need to develop inexpensive home and business storage batteries that are made of common materials. That will democratize energy. 4. Agree about oil. Supplies are more precarious than we think.
@@Apjooz There are other methods of getting graphite. Getting it from oil only makes sense as it's available, but it's MUCH better to end all oil production and use other sources for the graphite. (aka find a better pain killer than Heroin for the addict)
I got a copy of this book off of Amazon's UK contingent based on your mentioning the book some weeks ago on the "Stop BS" launch. Before the US release!
Tar sands may have high yields of graphite with fewer lighter oils. I wonder if that refinery explosion was a hydrogen leak? What impressed me is how vehemently some people will defend burning ancient vegetable oil. Are they extreme vegans?
I always knew that at one time, oil was seen as the more environmentally friendly option to coal, but I didn't know that coal itself was seen as the more environmentally friendly option to alternatives Given the examples that were listed, that make a lot of sense.
so renewable's is really to bring back balance to the cycle of material? I never thought in that way before. It makes sense and will make it much more likely that more people is getting it.
Don't forget, Robert, when you were a hippy there were less than 4 billion people on earth. And we (the over 60's) use twice the energy per person our parents did, who used twice the energy their parents did. An expanding population with increasing wealth is increasing energy and material demand many times over. A difficult equation to solve.
Our energy use peaked in 2005. Currently we used 75TWh less per year than we did in 2005. If we all had EV's and charged them everyday (which we never would) we would need 75TWh, so back to 2005 levels. That's partly why National Grid isn't concerned about EV's. Plus there is increasing solar use, battery storage, efficiency of appliances etc that will gradually increase offsetting some of the requirements to charge EV's.
@@Jamessansome To make petro fuels takes an enormous level of electricity. When EV sales rise and ICE car's sales drop then the electricity used to make petro fuels is used charge batteries directly. One cancels the other out.
@@smvsspouldRepublicans, hawkish Democrats and Laborite’s, Russia, Israel, Hamas and China all doing a good job of positioning us to reach your downward population goal
That was really interesting. I have ordered Ed’s book but unfortunately it will be delivered tomorrow by a diesel powered van from Amazon, not an electric van from Amazon.
I know this is strictly a boys zone - but I was doing chemistry and we had a school visit to Fawley oil refinery in the mid 1960s. Some of us were girls too! Maybe we ( now oldies ) have always had a better grasp of where ‘stuff’ comes from. And we had chemistry teachers! Hope big brother doesn,t delete these comments. All the last have been wiped.
Must be bigger front and or a good amount of source notes in the book as the audio on libro (cough cough, you accidentally own the downloads on libro vs. Amazons Audible) from the publisher is under 16 hours for those 512 pages of the book. Great interview!
So I feel like this episode should of come with a public health warning. I’m now crushing on Eddie C badly. Who can I talk to about restoring my heartbeat? 😍
Simon Michaux Energy density Why there won't be enough energy for everyone Nuclear, Renewables, fossil fuels Do yourself a favour and listen to some facts like this gentleman's insights. With facts we can move in the right direction.
I have a (bad) joke about the "Greenbelt" north of the Toronto area where I live. By the time that we finally agree how to manage the land it will have all been dug up and trucked away...
Industrial wiring in Canada is now using a new aluminum alloy because they save 30%-50% on the installation vs copper.
Listening to this, it made me realize something about the industrial revolution; it never really stopped..
We're all just living in a world of perpetual Industrial Evolution now, which I'd hazard is probably a net-positive thing on balance, over the long term. 🤔
TY both for a great and thought provoking podcast 👍🏼
The Daily Mail & all the other scandal rags that came after have robbed us of so much with their dumbed-down thinking. :'-(
Hmmm... not entirely convinced about that. I suppose it depends how you measure it. Environmentally-speaking I'd say you are very wrong - but that's not to say we can't have industrial 'progress' and not take care of the environment, too, of course. We just have to accept the cost of doing that. In terms of technology - with all the pros and cons that brings for humanity - then I think you are 100% correct. The question is, how far are 'we' (by which I mean governments and their financial/power/political bed-fellows) going to have go before we realise we have gone too far?
Another fabulous interview Bobby, thanks.
Its been a genuine joy, listening here, thank you.🌿
Two brilliant episodes in 2 weeks. More please. Look forward to the Monday podcasts.
I've now listened to the whole interview with Ed, wow that was fascinating I've saved the video because I'm going to have to listen to it again lots of interesting facts and things talked about in this interview, it's probably one of the best Bob's done so far, definitely hope we get to see Ed Conway again on the channel, I shall buy a copy of his book.
These podcasts are great. Keep them coming, Robert.
Need more of Ed Conway. A fantastic guest and I never realised he was so into energy and environment. Evolution is what we are doing and this happens as we discover things we were doing are no longer good. Asbestos is another example of things once thought good but now very bad as our understanding grew. EV's, solar, wind are all part of this journey to find a more friendly way to our planet.
Can we get Ed at the Fully Charged live shows?
Very interesting conversation, more of him please!
In the mid 1700s Sweden had something like 50% of the world export of iron because we still had forests to turn into charcoal. Then someone worked out how to make coal into coke for iron production and then the industrial revolution really kicked off.
That was the best podcast yet. Fascinating stuff.
Love this guy - the sensible way he explains his point of view. His book is magic
Something that stuck in my mind for years was a chemist being interviewed by the BBC, 10 years or more ago.
"People in the future will declare us mad for burning oil and gas, which is needed for the production of many valuable products."
A whole list, including fertilizers medicines, if I remember correctly.
They are needed now but won't be in the future.
Well done for getting Ed Conway on Robert. I used to look forward to his weekly column in the Times, he’s such an interesting man.
I have worked in sustainable building for 35 years and have always worked to minimise cement and concrete. I use metal screw piles to support a timber floor and then SIPs for the shell of an airtight building. I contend concrete is one of the greatest polluters after oil because of the embodied energy.
Hmm, you might research CO2 sequestration by concrete.
It is suggested that this makes the concrete "stronger".
I researched this in 1986 and found it's impractical. Since then I've built without using any concrete. @@t1n4444
Always interesting guests. He was refreshingly grounded in reality.
The oil industry also continues to 'extract the piss' at a relentless rate.
Truly amazing facts and especially showing that nothing is as simple as "can't see just". I can see an opportunity for a connections type programme where coal saved the trees, oil saved us from coal and saved the whale etc.
I have just ordered the book, I've had a couple of people recommend it already but seeing this interview was the clincher!
Excellent interview, really enjoyed that. Ed's book will be under the tree!
Excellent episode, finished off with a superbly inspiring few minutes from Ed at the end!
I'd happily listen to another few hours.
Great, just pre-ordered the audiobook which comes out next week
Brilliant interview and great to be able to put a face and identity to Ed as I'm also reading the book in question, as a result of it being mentioned in past FC podcasts. Just about to finish the sand chapter, and haven't cheated as Robert has, so very much looking forward to the upcoming subjects/chapters.
Another interview with Ed would be brilliant and very much looking forward to it.
Have you read Vaclav Smil's book, it also puts scale and perspective on things. The small amount of iron ore mined, is because only 10% is "new" and 90% is recycled, along with aluminium it is one of the most recycled. Thats why Electric Arc Furnaces, which only charge scrap is based on diminishing returns.
More of Ed, yes please. Absolutely fascinating.
The problem with us now wanting sustainability is that we have an economic 'system' that absolutely DEMANDS infinite growth in order to 'work' and the only possible way I can see that we could get ourselves out of it would be to make it financially worthwhile for people to SHARE the jobs we would agree we NEED to have done and work much less. The system would still 'work' but economic growth would not be required.
The Green Party have a plan for prosperity without "growth", vote Green & find out how it works.
I suspect you either have read, or should read, Donut Economics. I suspect you’d find it very interesting! 😊
AI will probably sort that out and UBI as a consequence.
Thank you for the interview with Ed Conway. I was expecting a one hour lecture on how horrible fossil fuels are and that we should stop using it altogether. However, the conversation you had with him was fascinating and informative. I’m a big fan of EVs because I’d love it if the world was less dependent on the Middle East. I do agree that it will be extremely difficult to wean ourselves off fossil fuels and that they should be part of an overall energy mix in the future. You have a great show, keep up the good work!
Looking forward to seeing the first chapter of the first series of many seasons of concrete 👍🏽😊
Liiviing in a material world..
I need to listen to the remix again…
Fabulously interesting stuff. So much so, I’ve bought the book 😊
I’ve never thought about how everything around me came out of the ground! It suddenly shifts your perspective and creates a better understanding of the developed world. The other comment about that ‘there is still hope’ is something I’ll cling on to despite my feeling of despair at humankind and it’s destructive zeal.
Just bought Ed’s book!
26:36 that pipe is part of a network laid during WWII between all the airfields & military bases & connecting to all the oil refineries. When driving down the road look for black & white horizontally-striped posts with a yellow cap, if you stand beside one you can see the next one in either direction. I would like to see a map but it's probably still a State Secret.
I have to admit I'm not worried about the climate, BUT I am a gear-head and I love the EV technology. I'm very happy with my decision to purchase an EV and at least I feel like I'm doing my part for cleaner air. Also, to pass by the gas stations is pretty fun. I haven't purchased any petrol in several months and charging at home during "off-peak" is wonderful. My electric bill has not gone up. For anyone that is on the fence about buying an EV, education is important but I think it's a great idea. I will never buy anrother ICE vehicle. I am looking forward to new battery technologies with higher energy density and faster charge rates. Some day an EV will have range on par or greater than ICE vehicles, at that point there will be no excuses.
2 of my favourite human beings! Wonderful conversation. Vital topic. 👏
I’m getting this book. Thanks Ed
Ed's point about how we've become/becoming increasingly divorced about how stuff is made, where raw materials come from etc, reminds me of how I often reflect on how long it would take for modern civilisation to become a historical curiosity because nobody knows how to make anything anymore or how to repair thousands items we take for granted, primarily in the developed world, in our daily lives. Within one to two hundred years modern conveniences would have to have largely turned into junk or disappeared
For example: a toaster or an electric kettle. These two everyday items are rarely, if ever, repaired, don't have a very long lifespan, and due to costs associated with repairs & general lack of repair shops, are chucked into the bin before buying a new one. It would be fantastic to be able to, at the very least, recycle them, but in Swansea City for example, there's no kerbside e-waste provision, recycling facilities for e-waste make having access to/use of a car, a necessity, and the WEEE Directive allows retailers to charge for e-waste disposal that in the case of a typical value toaster or kettle, has a tendency to be at or greater than the cost of a new item; very few would bother with WEEE directive collection as things stand.
This is your best video. Loved it. Getting the book. Robert there is always something we will learn and someone will have great brains superfluous journalist.
Congratulations,Very good show Robert. So much better than last weeks.
What a lovely chap! Amazing insights, I don't know if I should be cheered or chilled...👏👍
Love listening to EVs, sustainability, green tech podcasts, Robert and the team at Fully Charged keep up with great work, spreading words about everything electric 😊❤❤
With love from sLOVEnia ❤❤
Lithium in batteries can be recycled. Once petrol, oil and gas is burned that's the end of the story.
Do have a look at the Just Have A Think video on refining oil. It turns out that we can reconfigure refineries to meet the new demands of crude oil distillates avoiding creating petroleum and diesel.
one of the best things i've ever watched
Thank you for these conversations.
From my research, which includes the mining and refining of minerals, we are reinventing the wheel and making it square, whilst at the same time expecting it to be more productive.
Thank you so much for a vision of a somewhat hopeful future for the world as my personal situation and local area go down in flames.
As when you ask a children "where dos food come from" and they answer "From the supermarket" 🤣
28:08 refineries fascinate me too, especially the _"cat cracker",_ they can take in anything that will compost plus plastics & pretty much any hydrocarbon, the cat crackers smash it into component atoms which are reassembled & out the other end pops whatever hydrocarbons you want.
The main products (methane, "natural" gas, petrol, kerosene, jet fuel, Diesel, bunker fuel for ships etc) are separated off first by fractional distillation as you describe but then it gets interesting...
Another eye opening interview, thank you.
"...THAT BOOK ladies and gentlemen. I cannot recommend it highly enough." *puts book down and desk almost collapses* 😂
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
Excellent!
75% of the electricity production in October 2023 in Denmark was renewable energy..
This was BRILLIANT
Best episode this year!
Great interview - I hope Ed can join one of the panels at Live London.
Thanks! Just bought the audio book 😉
Brilliant
Brilliant, brought the book. Get him back soon!
When can we expect the extended edition of the concrete episode? 😁
As an Electrical Engineer, it is annoying how many electricians, technicians and line workers subscribe to the fossil fuel narratives on the grid. My usual answer is "if you can cook you can charge".
Great discussion. My thoughts are: 1. The overarching problem is overpopulation. World resources may be able to support 2 billion people. Europe and North America need to reshore manufacturing. 3. We need to develop inexpensive home and business storage batteries that are made of common materials. That will democratize energy. 4. Agree about oil. Supplies are more precarious than we think.
Continuing to collect oil for the secondary product of graphite makes as much sense as giving a Heroin Addict Heroin for his pain.
So it kind of makes sense? (not a real doctor I just play as one).
@@Apjooz There are other methods of getting graphite. Getting it from oil only makes sense as it's available, but it's MUCH better to end all oil production and use other sources for the graphite.
(aka find a better pain killer than Heroin for the addict)
I got a copy of this book off of Amazon's UK contingent based on your mentioning the book some weeks ago on the "Stop BS" launch. Before the US release!
A podcast-a-thon I like it
The book is now on my Christmas list
I think the one fact I'd really like to have answered is how much of the oil, gas and coal we actually burn. Essentially the co2 emission part.
Ed Conway for global president!!
Tar sands may have high yields of graphite with fewer lighter oils.
I wonder if that refinery explosion was a hydrogen leak?
What impressed me is how vehemently some people will defend burning ancient vegetable oil. Are they extreme vegans?
fantastic episode
53:05 - "And, not Or"!!
I always knew that at one time, oil was seen as the more environmentally friendly option to coal, but I didn't know that coal itself was seen as the more environmentally friendly option to alternatives
Given the examples that were listed, that make a lot of sense.
Please have this guest back on!
Bring Ed back please
Robert, you should think about inviting Simon Michaux to the show.
another order for the book placed, through Powells
That was great. :)
38:10 I have done the same drive in a hybrid in the opposite direction, and was worried I had overcharged my little Hyundai Ioniq battery!!
Great podcast and sounds like a good book.
Morning mate
Love facts!!
That's a lot of tons
Huuugggeeee
so renewable's is really to bring back balance to the cycle of material? I never thought in that way before. It makes sense and will make it much more likely that more people is getting it.
Don't forget, Robert, when you were a hippy there were less than 4 billion people on earth. And we (the over 60's) use twice the energy per person our parents did, who used twice the energy their parents did. An expanding population with increasing wealth is increasing energy and material demand many times over. A difficult equation to solve.
Our energy use peaked in 2005. Currently we used 75TWh less per year than we did in 2005.
If we all had EV's and charged them everyday (which we never would) we would need 75TWh, so back to 2005 levels. That's partly why National Grid isn't concerned about EV's. Plus there is increasing solar use, battery storage, efficiency of appliances etc that will gradually increase offsetting some of the requirements to charge EV's.
@@Jamessansome
To make petro fuels takes an enormous level of electricity. When EV sales rise and ICE car's sales drop then the electricity used to make petro fuels is used charge batteries directly. One cancels the other out.
It'd be great if our population went back down to 4 billion, think of the resources and space to go around.
@@smvsspould
The world has plentiful resources as it stands.
@@smvsspouldRepublicans, hawkish Democrats and Laborite’s, Russia, Israel, Hamas and China all doing a good job of positioning us to reach your downward population goal
go on do a 10hour podcast in super detail!
Great show guys
You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
That was really interesting. I have ordered Ed’s book but unfortunately it will be delivered tomorrow by a diesel powered van from Amazon, not an electric van from Amazon.
Yes! We are not individuals. We are in a state of interbeing
I could see the ‘CO2 vacuum’ thing being more applicable to pre-cast concrete units than on-site concrete pouring
I know this is strictly a boys zone - but I was doing chemistry and we had a school visit to Fawley oil refinery in the mid 1960s. Some of us were girls too! Maybe we ( now oldies ) have always had a better grasp of where ‘stuff’ comes from. And we had chemistry teachers! Hope big brother doesn,t delete these comments. All the last have been wiped.
So looking forward to November 7.
Must be bigger front and or a good amount of source notes in the book as the audio on libro (cough cough, you accidentally own the downloads on libro vs. Amazons Audible) from the publisher is under 16 hours for those 512 pages of the book. Great interview!
So I feel like this episode should of come with a public health warning. I’m now crushing on Eddie C badly. Who can I talk to about restoring my heartbeat? 😍
Simon Michaux Energy density
Why there won't be enough energy for everyone
Nuclear, Renewables, fossil fuels
Do yourself a favour and listen to some facts like this gentleman's insights.
With facts we can move in the right direction.
Ed is one of the few sane voices in the mainstream media. Interested to hear what he has to say.
Blimey is the word !!!
Thanks for some real truth you guys
Fertilizer can be made through solar now which is 100x more efficient to produce the amonia. Oil isn't needed
It would be nice to have more almost breaking news
Every EV is one less fossil burner.
I have a (bad) joke about the "Greenbelt" north of the Toronto area where I live. By the time that we finally agree how to manage the land it will have all been dug up and trucked away...