@@alessando63249 Elon is super. He came to the US with pennys and slept on office floors and showered at public gyms while starting companies. Elon is an ace…an American success story.
@@mckinnonbathie5945 Because the workers weren’t getting paid what their work was worth. You want an example of a bad union, look at how SAG-AFTRA threw most of their members under the bus by accepting a deal from studio executives involving AI clauses that were really vague and could screw their “lesser” members over, most notably voice actors, as one of the union’s board members had called them.
You ever do any research or you just spout lies on internet every chance you get? there was no ownership at all. His father for a short time had a stake in an emerald mine in Zambia, but none of his family ever owned one! Idiot.
@@tempesta1229it's not true, because the mine was in Zambia not South Africa. Source - Elon's own words in 2014: "This is going to sound slightly crazy, but my father also had a share in an emerald mine in Zambia. I was 15 and really wanted to go with him but didn’t realize how dangerous it was. I couldn’t find my passport so I ended up grabbing my brother’s -- which turned out to be six months overdue! So we had this plane load of contraband and an overdue passport from another person. There were AK-47s all over the place and I’m thinking, “Man, this could really go bad.” Also Elon's father's words: Errol says he first stumbled into the emerald business while flying from South Africa en route to the UK to sell a Cessna Golden Eagle plane. Landing at an airstrip near Zambia’s northern borders with Tanzania and what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, he met and befriended the Italian owner of the airstrip. It turned out the Italian employed locals to dig out emeralds deep in the Zambian bush and Errol decided to go into business with him. The workers would bring them in for shipment to Errol in what the retired electromechanical engineer described as an “under the table” operation. The Italian business partner would then pay the locals around $2 a load, enough to feed an entire family for a month, Errol says. He explained: “What Elon is saying is that there was no formal mine. “It was a rock formation protruding from the ground in the middle of nowhere. “There was no mining company. There are no signed agreements or financial statements. “No one owned anything. The deal was done on a handshake with the Italian man at a time when Zambia was a free for all. “Not even he knew exactly where the border was. At that time, it was like the Wild West.” Errol can only say for sure that the deposit was about 40 miles from where he had landed his Cessna in Kasaba Bay, which is now a tourist hub. Explaining why he thinks that Elon has pushed back on the emerald mine story, Errol said: “Elon's main concern is not to appear to be a 'trust fund kid’ who got everything given to him on a plate" If your response to this is "They're both just telling an elaborate lie" What does that say about them...?
Where's my right to opt out of a union? Let me guess, lose my job? Not very free now is it? Unions are just mafia shakedowns disguised as "fighting for better working conditions"
Pay people enough and they may not need a union but that’s not what has happened historically. Working people have no leverage to negotiate as individuals against a multi million-billion dollar organization unless they have an organization.
@@dankz7061 Because companies pay donations and have lobby groups. Why? To influence public policy. Get rid of political donations (legalised briary) and lobby groups and the, and only then, would your statement be true. Because when you break it all down, companies and lobby groups are just another gang of people out to maximise outcomes for themselves. So why shouldn't workers have their gangs too?
Whether you are a slave, or a worker, or a bourgeois/business owner, or an aristocratic landlord, you will never felt satisfied. "Enough" is never enough. If you think you generated much more value than you get back, you will find it easy to get a better offer elsewhere. Multi billion dollar corporations are actually the ones that are most receptive toward unionization and regulation, since they can stifle their competition by dramatically increase the cost of doing business for newcomers. Thus maintaining their position in the industry. In such highly regulated and unionized environment, both the workers and the business owners can enjoy relative stability, at the cost of innovation and customer satisfaction. That is till competitors from abroad, which operated in much more _laissez faire_ environment hit you hard with their cheaper and more innovative products.
@@barrytelesford5265 It doesn't really though. It suggests their demand will increase for quality goods while decreasing for inferior goods. Elasticity of demand still applies, as does substitutional goods. Just because I have 3x as much money as my friends, doesn't mean I wear 3x as many clothes. Maybe just slightly more expensive ones, but there's still a point of decreasing demand, and arguably my clothes are a lot better made and so last significantly longer. One doesn't become a pillock just because one's fortunes change. Most wealthy people have significant wealth tied up in illiquid assets, money they really (obviously) don't need.
I guess you just conveniently ignored the part about the employees that were given stock in the company and have as a result become millionaires - this never happens for union members
@@elastotec173 These are startup millionaires. Not rank and file who join up later. I know people who were the original AOL staff who were similarly rewarded.
What’s the condition like? Do you think it’s better off overall to other car factories? Are people well compensated? He makes it sound like he really understands his workers or something
Then the company you worked for was trash for not providing that without one. The difference here is Tesla provides great benefits to all their employees, including top healthcare coverage and stock options for part ownership in the company. The more successful the company, the more the employee makes. When a company structures itself properly all a Union is going to do is disrupt things, create division and promote bad work ethics.
@@Tiigerr You're expecting companies to structure themselves to benefit employees out of the good of their own hearts? Companies work for their shareholders' interests, not their employees. Your example with Tesla is moot since they don't provide healthcare to all of their employees and have a history of breaking labor laws to silence people who work for them. That's not even getting into the international troubles with countries like Sweden. Put down your Elon pom-poms and learn the benefits of organized labor.
Tesla is fighting sweden on this issue, we have very strong unions that are integrated into society and how we run everything, and tesla is trying to be an exception to this
@@AlternativPerspectiv if an immigrant crosses the border, should they be free to do WHATEVER or should they abide by host nation's rules? Sweden chose unions. You as a foreigner don't get to come in and throw a hissy fit.
I worked for a union and I'm for them. I was with a carpenter union and those guys are hard working and have to go through a process to become a carpenter. We made sure they got paid properly, got amazing health insurance, and pensions
I can't speak for the American perspective of unions, however, I couldn't imagine a day at work here in Denmark without the concept of unions. Without them it would feel like a wild west market with no reciprocity between employer and employee. You don't want government set rules but for society to shape them through the free market. It's a big safety net for families and creates better transparency in a working relationship.
I have no idea how Americans got talked out of strong unions. It's why our society has completely eroded. But it's our life now, work hard and set yourself up right or die in the street without healthcare. I'm fortunate that I'm a software engineer who is good with money, but many others are not so fortunate.
America is overrated. The most commonly cited reason for bankruptcy is medical debt. The leading cause of death amongst minors are guns. Conservatives here don't even want school lunches to be free for kids. They are willing to let impoverished children go hungry.
@@ssiko52 Most Americans don't even know what a union is. They really have no idea what unions are, or how they work. All they are told is that greedy union bosses come in and take part of their pay. That's all they are told.
Ive worked in good unions, that stood up for me every chance they got, but I've also worked in two terrible corrupt unions that robbed me and my coworkers for their own benefit and really left a bad taste in my mouth. I think it totally depends, not all unions are good and not all of them are bad.
Afaik Problem in US is that unions become monopolies. There is one union per enterprise. In Poland there is still choice of unions. Many times they just combine their efforts if necessary, but it is good to have competition.
@@radicalaimElon Musk don't know what union is. The lord and peasant is the most stupied I ever heard and I have heard Donald Trump in video interviews.
I've been working at a company since 2003 (basically all my adult life). I've been a union member for most of that time and not once was the union in a position to help our wages catch up to inflation. Every single year we either get no pay increase, or a pay increase that is nowhere near inflation, all while they make layoffs and more work is piled on top of what we already do. I wish we had stock options like the ones Tesla give at a discount to employees. I would have retired by now if that were the case. Some companies can take care of you without constant strike action, and some unions are just so useless they only take your membership fee and never have your back when you need them.
@@abuibu I used to sell credit cards to union members, most people seem fine with what their unions are doing, its rare to get someone that hates thier union.
@@steven7936 I liked my union up until we saw how pathetic they were at fighting for anyone's rights and that we were basically no safer in our positions whether or not we were members.. They were just happy to appear when they wanted their membership fees.
The # 1 way to overcome unions. Is the company provide better benefits with no union dues. #2 Employees are part owners the company, pay based of profits.
The employees could buy stake in the company if they want. The people who get the stake by default are the people who put their money at risk to fund the starting of the company.
@@YHDiamond Yeah... as if. Did you ever work a job you didn't like, but it paid the bills to support your family? Most people have. That's why they form unions, so they can use their collective power to level the scales.
@@tonygrowley5275 I'm not saying you shouldn't take a job you don't like, I'm saying you shouldn't take an abusive job, or if you're at one you should leave.
The free market means that individuals who sell their labor are justified in forming alliances to leverage their negotiating power. The alliance is like a corporation that sells labor to other corporations that want to buy labor. The labor-selling corporation has to be mindful of its prices and terms, and how their "customers" are able to afford them now and how they compare to foreign competition.
@@tiramisuvodka8353 Because it doesn't work anyways and because it is megacringe to give the state more power in any shape or form. Free markets with organised employers and organised employees is the way.
@@programmer1840they can they just don't sign paperwork and fire everyone nothing stopping them from that other than it cost more money to find and hire new people than to keep and pay their current employees.
Unfortunately We don't live in an Ideal world. Companies are greedier than ever. Unions are the only way to get a honest days pay, for a honest days work.
No. If the company offers a good rate of pay and benefits, people will want to work there. Too many unions think they deserve the same as the risk takers when they don't risk a thing. They should trade a good day's work for a fair wage. If it's not a fair wage, don't work there. The company will need to up their game to the point that they attract people/workers.
You forgot Pension, and the most important. A safe workplace, because that is the Law. Problem is too many companies and even Unionized companies, because of the CEO’s only take care of the shareholders and put the workers in danger. Non union crap jobs usually take advantage of immigrants, or temp workers. Temp workers get the most unsafe jobs because they are too scared to be sent home. Do not know the law. I live it and work it and see the abuse. If big business did’t cheat the workers, you wouldn't need Unions. But over 130 years later, they still cant figure it out. So the Need for Unions will always be. Plus all the union dues are tax deductible. another bonus. Unions earn their money. These are the FACTS. NO DISPUTE!!!!@@TeutonicNordwind
@@TeutonicNordwindMany workers can’t pick and choose. I live in Australia where we have universal healthcare, universal compulsory superannuation, 5 weeks annual paid holidays and many other benefits. These conditions were achieved by unions and the Australian Labor Party. Also we have the highest minimum wage in the world. Musk is a fair weather boss!
I disagree with any CEO that fails to negotiate in good faith. Without a union, essentially a form of government a work force has no ability to redress labor issues. Therefore you are actually a Lord without question. It is time to bring you holdings into greater antitrust scrutiny.
"Without a union, essentially a form of government a work force has no ability to redress labor issues." Yes they do. They're free to quit and work for a competitor.
@@ChiefTapion. He incentivized enough not to have one , offered something better, that’s the goal. Union when needed . They don’t want one. He said he wouldn’t stand in their way. Win , win .
What he is talking about is a place where Unions don't need to exist. Yes, a union wouldn't be needed of the workers were happy and felt they were getting a fair piece of the pie.
Without union employers are less free to just "do what they want" and that's both a blessing and a curse. In Europe unions is a pretty standard thing to be honest, not sure why Americans think it's some communist Russia type of deal
So undervoted. He's not against unions in general but against them at the companies he's created because he's tried to foster a sense of community and equality between coworkers at them. He's against unions at his companies because he feels they are unnecessary.
Love your comment about executives separate elevators. At State Farm Insurance executives have separate underground parking. Next to that is their own elevators to whisk them up to the penthouse, bypassing the slaves so they never have to interact with common employees. Talk about a distorted version of reality!!!
@@polarxta2833 No, CEOs created a them vs. us situation. CEOs have been exploiting employees at most companies for centuries. Elon says that there's no hierarchy in Tesla, but he's lying. Elon hasn't worked the line. He's never depended on a line job to provide food for his family. All Elon cares about is his own profit margin and he'll happily step on his workers in order to get it - just like every other CEO. As long as that's the case, unions will be needed.
@@andremessado7659 I understand where you are coming from. I have a feeling he is more popular with conservatives. Not your old school hardened ones who were cynical about all forms of authority though. New age conservatives who tend to be ridiculously obsequious about wealth and power. Their reasoning mostly tends towards 'if you are right/successful/happy where is your wealth?' They seem like blue pills under the delusion they cracked the Matrix and see through it all 😄.
@@KH-qy7fm the source is the employees themselves 🤣 all the people that got fired and cried on the internet worked in the Human Resources department for cultural and sociological aspects of the business. You don't see any videos of actual technicians that literally build the website crying about being fired
@@KH-qy7fm spoiler alert: its because they weren't fired. The actual useful stem majors were kept and the useless pink haired sociology majors were all fired.
It's the corporate executives who create the adversarial relationship that make unions necessaary. When the executives, who live in gated communities, and whose compensation is many multiple times more than the workers who produce the product, and whose compensation barely pays for their basic living expenses, there will be resentment and conflict.
Are you kidding? Unions have as much political and financial clout as rich people these days. Unions are equally responsible. I've worked in corporate America with no unions for 23 years across multiple companies and I have never experienced any animosity from management.
@@jpete3027666corporations haven't increased wages to match worker's productivity... and more recently, to match historic inflation.... that is the animosity we speak of
If you come up with the next big idea, invest all your money and time into to risk bankruptcy, and all that hard work pays off and the company becomes a global phenomenon where your shares make you a multi-billionaire within years. What have you done wrong? and what would you do in that position since you "disagree with the idea of billionaires"?
@@abuibuI’d limit my compensation and pay my workers higher salaries - say at Amazon for starters. You wonder why American wages have stagnated when CEOs are paying themselves 300x (2000x for abezos)the average salary. There is no money tree. We can all be prosperous, but not if the top is siphoning off too much.
@dannysullivan3951 The gap between the upper echelons of a company and its workers is often ludicrous. When someone can earn what you earn in a year on one regular day it's obviously unfair. But I've never seen a union successfully change that
This Headline is so mis-leading. He had a great answer to that loaded question. And yes it is true, I come from a union household. I absolutely understand and appreciate the reason why we have unions. But in some cases, they are completely unnecessary and they stifle expansion and job growth opportunities. And some unions also have a tendency for protecting incompetent staff. So unless people are getting grossly underpaid or being forced to work in unsafe conditions = there's absolutely no reason to have a union.
Oh don't forget he wants everyone to have large families of kids to populate the world. He himself isn't a present father. But maybe he's suggesting women go back to only child care.
"I don't like unions, lords and peasants. I'd prefer there just being lords - and nobody else talking" lol. Unions can ask for too much, same as Execs can be greedy. But fundamentally, it's absurd to be against humans grouping up to increase their leverage, if they're being mistreated. If Musk can keep the workers content and avoid a union, good for him. But he saying he's a Saint-Friend of all workers, begs the question, do others love him as much as he says all love him? Don't tell him to his face, it's said he fires ya on the spot - and with no Union protection, you're gone Lol
Regardless of what party you lean towards the average worker does not have a seat at the table. We don’t have lobbyists fighting for our best interest. We don’t have politicians, red or blue fighting for our best interest. Greed has broken democracy and it is going to get much worst with this administration now with Billionaires being appointed. They want us divided cause it makes us beatable.
As a person who retired from a skilled trade union, we are not like govt. employees. They can lay us off with no explanation needed. We go back to the hall and take another job. The unions with seniority are the real issue. No way to get rid of deadwood at all
@@clydecash5659 no. Seniority kills motivation. In the skilled trades seniority does not exist. We have no problem at all with older workers. They show up everyday to work. It’s the younger ones we have issues with.
Almost all companies are against unions because it takes some of the power away from the employer and gives it to the lowly worker. It's all about keeping your job as insecure as possible. That way employees are less likely to complain about their working conditions. Keep people scared for their jobs and they'll keep their mouths shut.
Companies tend to be against unions because they slowly burn profits ultimately slowly burning down entire industries . Why are so many coal mining towns , ghost towns now
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That’s probably correct, but taxes in Germany are 17% higher on wages than the US, and Sweden is roughly 30% higher than an OECD nation like the U.S., so comparatively, it’s better for the Tesla employees to be paid 10% less.
Ask how many gm union employees are millionaires because of their stock options. Unions were good in the beginning but the UAW is too corrupt at this point and will inevitability be responsible for bankrupting the big 3
Once part of a union you are a slave to the union, having the option not to be part of a union is the freedom option. Unions sometimes get so big, it becomes a government itself, just as dethatched from the workers as governments usually is today.
@@ShiftheadsO.k. how many. Do you also understand who benefits from stock buybacks, I'll give you a clue, it's not the employees. I guess someone should really tell unions they should stop raising the CEO's pay by so much. Shame on the unions for doing that.
I have spoken to many americans that are against unions. The problem is that most of the time they don't fully understand how a proper union is managed and what they actually do for the society and it's people. Where I come from they are in active conversations with the various businesses and everyone always try to come to an agreement before going on strike. But sometimes the workers, the unions and the businesses are so far apart from one another that a strike occurs. And then usually they meet each other halfway. So it's not that having unions are bad, the businesses are the same. When they do come to an agreement you notice very fast that there was actually room for negotiations and the workers got better paid.
Or got out of a job cause the company went belly up. In America, that is the case a lot of times. The unions can make it so hard to remove useless employees that the company suffers as a whole in the long run, and then everyone's out looking for new work.
All a 'proper' union does is steal from a company who is forced by that to do a variety of things because of it... all or some of....raising its price on its goods or service....lay off or fire employees to compensate and other possibilities including putting businesses out of work...and looking at the 'big picture hurts everyone...the mantra used in the government bailout of the automobile industries was...according to the commie at the time was...they are too big to fail....no they are not...tax payers funded corrupt 'unions'
The Toyota Camry sold millions more than Tesla Model Y. In total, Toyota Camry sold 30mil units globally, Tesla Model Y sold 3.4mil units. The best selling Camry model is the Toyota Camry LE, making up about 60% of Toyota Camry sales at 12.5-18mil units. The best selling version of the Tesla Model Y is the Long Range AWD, accounting for 60-70% of its sales at 2-2.4mil units.
The purpose of the union is to try, often unsuccessfully, to equalise the power differential between capital and labour. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I worked for a big social media company, before the union got involved they were stricter and gave out warnings suspension without salary no batrhom time issues with holiday request, once the union got involved the power balanced changed in favour of the employee, everybody looks out for their own interests and the unions give the workers more power thats straight facts
Me too. I submitted a script and the company didn’t pay me for the work for 4 months. The reason? They couldn’t be bothered. Not until the WGA got involved and made this company pay me. The work took me four months to create and I couldn’t pay mortgage buy food etc until I was paid. Some people are idiots. They don’t understand how important unions are even when the unions are helping them.
My company hates its revenue generating employees and always seeks to limit any amount of sharing the company’s success with them at every turn. We actually had a chapter 11 and the ceo flew to Europe for an in person visit to a supplier that anyone else would have gained the info off a website. They earned our union because without it they’d ultimately fail due to not having any employees left.
you should just go work for someone else if they are that bad. unions are terrorists filled with talentless people who can't simply get jobs at other companies.
Exactly. It would be utterly foolish to trust anyone who desires that power without safeguard. That's what a Union is. He knows that, and so no matter what he says his word shouldn't be entirely trusted. Even if he can be trusted him and his ethos are temporary.
CLAIMS YET THERES PLENTY OF EVIDENCE OF HIM BEING AWFUL TO HIS EMPLOYERS DISMISSED BY SECURITY CARD BEING WIPED NOT A WORD OF THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AT THE COMPANY. I WOULDNT TRUST HIM FOR A SECOND
In Mitt Romney's book, when his father ran and had saved American Motors, he was surprised that he was not to be allowed to go onto the factory shop floor without guards because he would not be safe!
Because unions are not greedy, right? In my country unions have destroyed entire industries with the sole purpose of get established as powers, they even force the national government to take all the policy decisions that they want by enforcing nation-wide strikes on transports, paralizing the economy until the conflict resolves in their favor. Union leaders have gain so much power here that their sons literally inherit the leadership and many don't even care about workers. A lot of times workers would prefer to stay out of the union, but they are now forced to join because otherwise the union makes sure they don't get prioritized to get the jobs. At least corporations need to play by market rules, they can go bankrupt and workers would eventually go away if their payment is too bad, while unions here have been controlled for decades by the same dynasties and keep shielding themselves behind labor laws that they protect with strikes and violence. They pay people to go to public places and create chaos. I'm not exaggerating, some years back they attacked the national congress while on session to stop an unfavorable law, by surrounding the building and throwing thousands of stones. If police intervenes strikers promote confrontation and let their people die, so then they can make a propaganda show on the media convincing the population of how bad the government is that it killed these poor citizens that were "only defending their rights". All started like is now starting in USA. Beware of what you wish for.
@@mist273 Unions in the USA are the only reason workers have rights, such as 8hr work days, weekends off, minimum wage, child labor, maternal leave, etc. You should do more research on early 20th century america.
@@Th3Chuzzl3r Ok fair enough, I don't know much about USA labor history so it might be in a different situation that I'm not aware of. I'm just saying that you need to be careful, because any power structure like that is subject to inefficiency, corruption and big time bad economic impact. Unions brought short-term benefits for workers here, but their long term impact on the economy was disastrous. The key is to setup the right incentives.
We have weekends because unions pushed for more breaks in the latter half of the 19th century. Then in the 1930s the weekend was finally here. Mostly due to unions and then employers noticing an increase in production.
Henry Ford, a capitalist, created the weekends in 1920’s because he understood it would increase productivity. It’s in unions interests to take as much credit as possible.
@@HENRYGCOLLINS Saint Monday was customary in Britain even earlier in the 19th century for those who filled their quotas. Bank holidays were also introduced in 1871 by a banker. People were having days off way before unions.
If GM has private elevators for their senior executives then maybe it’s the mindset of administration that is creating a mentality of lords and peasants and the unions are simply a response to that type of work environment.
It's a chicken-egg situation I think. Collective bargaining REINFORCES the lords and peasants culture. It's like the plebians of ancient Rome; having one collective vote is better than zero, but you are still serfs of the nobility. Unions are always doomed due to middle management and over-regulation. Individual bargaining leverages better pay, better production, and less bureaucratic waste
@@trequor please study the history of labor, you are talking out your ass. Unions are the only reason we have made progress and allowed any bargaining at all i.e. the 5 day work week, 40 hour work week etc.
Yeah right! Born into blood money, never worked an honest day in his life. Gimme a break. Of course he doesn't, they're completely antithetic to any worldview he's ever had to experience.
If not for labor unions, the world would be a "lords and peasants" environment... company stores, company schools, company dorms for families, etc., along with the company thugs like the Pinkertons. Unions have gone awry, with the government employees having their own unions which is absolutely absurd, resulting in the deterioration of public education, and police and firefighters unions, resulting in fatal welfare checks, pet shootings, and no personal responsibility. But labor unions, though badly needing restoration, are necessary.
Unions had a place at the time you mentioned. But that time has long passed. I am a union worker and I can tell you 100% the only thing a union does anymore is cause anger towards fellow workers, cause good workers to be lazy and further divides workers and management. It truly gives the workers and management an adversarial relationship. I have only been with the union for 7 years and I had a brother work 30 years and retire. The few industries the unions remain a hold of are being hurt by them. And of course I'm in 100% agreement with you that government unions are wrong and should be illegal.
Ah yes, the mind-reading question. Does he really like the idea of fair and equal pay for the workers, or does he actually hate the idea of somebody’s somebodies ganging together for negotiations? I’m really honestly open to either side of this, should he ever decide to reach out to me… Because I’m not a mind-reader. 😂
A company can only pay their workers more if the end customer is willing to pay more for the product. You can't try to build cheaper cars while paying more wages at the same time. Where do you think money comes from? Go read a book.
@@AashrayPaul97not necessarily you could also simply reduce your profit margins to facilitate a wage increase. Tesla had net profits in 2022 of 12.5 Billion dollars
All I'm saying is nobody owes anybody anything. If you can't retain people for difficult work at a certain price point you should consider increasing the pay in order to incentivize workers to stay. If not then you need to be ok with large turnover. If you can't afford the higher pay, then you need to plan how to handle the high turnover. But I have a feeling that Tesla has plenty of profit margin to cover a pay increase.
Having worked both union and nonunion, i would say both are good for a balance of power / fairness ? The non union jobs usually try to give perks to keep from becoming union. I suppose without unions there would be no incentive for such things.
They offer incentives because thats less costly than having a union form. So no matter how you boil it down, they're trying to keep more money in their own pockets.
@@cory99998 It's called capitalism. Regardless of our opinions, capitalism has raised the standards of living for all classes than any other system. I'm not saying there is not anything better. I'm saying to date, there has not been anything better. We are open for idea's. Any idea's?
"I don't want lords and peasants" Ok sell/redistribute all your stock, dismantle the board of directors, and convert Tesla into a worker-owned cooperative
I read a lot of people making claims that unions are bad or not resulting in what they need. Remember US is one of the only countries in western society that is this far behind on this subject. The biggest car brands in Germany have unions. (BMW, Mercedes, Porsche) In Germany I believe it is by law that they even need a representative of the general work force in board meetings and have full voting rights. So if the general luxury brands can do it so can American brands. I am always so amazed at how these US workers get taken advantage off. And this notion of that this makes brands less competitive is such a joke.
Just because some people elsewhere can, it doesn't mean we should here. We have so many red tapes, regulations, and taxes that standardizing unions might affect the job market of small and medium businesses, who are the largest employers). The central issue is endless money printing (inflation) and a government that's too large to bare. It is government that worsened the cost of living through taxes and inflation. One paycheck was sufficient for a decent life in the 50s because the currency was sound and the government was small. This whole union/company infighting let's loose the main culprit (government).
@@aritvanegas619 yep but we spend more on average and we have additional costs like health care that are already covered in the take-home pay in Germany, so I don't really agree that we make more ("purchasing power")
I used to think like that, but then I realised it was just the envy talking and that heavily taxing them out of existence reduces incentives for huge ideas and products to get developed and scaled up that make all our lives better.
I had been a card carrying union member from 1998 until 2017, for two different Unions. The Unions created an adversarial relationship between the represented employees and management. Management would want to do something cool for the employees, but the Union would scream about it. So I understand the Lords/Peasants concept that Musk is talking about here. The Union jobs I had promoted lowest common denominator type work and if you exceeded expectations that was treated no differently than if you only met expectations. Seniority was the only reason you got promoted, not ability, education, work ethic or anything else. I left my Union job in 2017 and started working for a company that valued my abilities and work ethic, have had many promotions and raises based on that. I have never been happier.
@@Ryanderson8467 it’s not more efficient as a nation to decrease the amount of people working and increase the tax burden on those that still do by driving jobs overseas. I’m sorry, I deal with unions on construction jobs all the time, they aren’t more efficient. They don’t always do the best work. They drive up costs on construction projects. The combination of 4 million less people in the work force since COVID, government regulations on building codes, and inflation have driven home prices and rents so high that people live in tents. Come over to reality, it’s a nice place to live.
It’s kind of insane really. He is a billionaire and whether he admits it or not, semantics do not matter because when compared with the average employee at his companies, they are at the complete mercy of his decisions.
"China is super-good at manufacturing and I think there work ethic is incredible." You can't make this up. Is this what America wants for its future???
Reminds me when they told us they needed market recovery to squeeze out the old blood. The old ways ruined the unions image they told our class. Lift the burdens of the countries economic troubles and shoulder it up where it needs to be. Get it done right the first time. What an orientation day. Took me a while to realize it was not just a union apprenticeship, but a newer collaboration in a wider contractor pool to work with the unions to turn out more skilled journeypeople. And it took another couple years to realize that turn was woke! An instructor actually told our class we were the wrong minorities for a certain opportunity we were competing for. What a career building experience of trial by fire. Don't even get me started on what could of been hazing. This topic is always hard for me not to rage a bit over. I've seen lesser people use up good hard workers and that wasn't right. Some of us were lucky to survive our injuries because of someone's greed. Alright done adding context.
I worked on writing softwares for gm and fords defined benefit pension plans. The running joke was that these were retirement homes masquerading as car manufacturers. They spent more money on retired employees than on innovation.
I grew up in an automotive town in Michigan, The population was cut in half, and those left 30% are in poverty. My father would tell me stories about people that would clock in walk across the street to a bar for eight hours come back and clock out ,that’s the union. That’s why a truck cost $80,000.
first of all to address what musk said, EV cars are widespread in China because the people dont have a choice , the government simply forces their will upon the people. 2) of the “work ethic“ again is forced upon them because of the extremely low pay to European countries in the US .and 3 if the public has not noticed by now, products made in China, unlike Japan are inferior as we’ve seen with all the bike battery explosions so if you’re going to use China as a model that’s a pretty low bar. and finally I completely disagree with Elon on unions unions of vital but with the caveat private units! Not public sector unions private union employees are paid fairly but they’re also subject to strict rules Liakh government and city unions who can do whatever they want and get away with it so that distinction has to be made I personally 100% in favor of private unions I think they should be more private unions.
Although Tesla workers have stock options, their compensation is far less than the UAW’s compensation package at GM, Ford and Stellantis. At Tesla, it’s $45 an hour in wages and benefits versus about $65 for UAW workers at the Detroit automakers - and that was before the UAW won a 25% raise over four and a half years after its six-week strike.
Actually, that’s incorrect not all workers at GM made $45 an hour much of their labor force was part time and got no benefits while my wife worked there for a couple years between 2018 and 2020. Her hourly wage was $18 an hour, if she would’ve been able to afford to stay there, she would’ve been made a full-time employee and eventually would’ve made a much higher hourly wage and her wage would’ve went up significantly but not to the $65 an hour wage you mentioned
Having a hierarchy that gets down in the trenches with the workers would be beneficial in helping them lead more efficiently. Every parent or aunt/uncle of young children knows that you have to be able to get on the level of understanding of the person before you can provide adequate support.
having a union that can do collective bargaining on behalf of the workers would be beneficial. this idea of bosses and workers magically transcending their class differences and working together in harmony is remeniscent of volksgemeinschaft which was embraced by the nazis while they initially pretended to be on the side of workers.
Argentina is full of unions, how is it working for them? Incompetent workers that cant be fired, corrupt unions that work for the powerfull and keep the poor on the floor, black market of goods, its just a mess Believing in unions is for naive people that think humans will just unite for the greater good and be happy, never using an unregulated un controled power for their own benefits, joning forces with the same people you were supposed to fight People are so naive or dishonest...
@@shway1 Every Marxist ideology(and yes I count fascism, communism and wokism as Marxist) claims to be on the side of workers when its time to recruit but end up betraying workers by imposing unhinged systems, Hitler and Mussolini simply took good ideas(like Nationalism and class cooperation) and twisted them almost beyond recognition(partially by applying Marx ideas of group struggle to the relationship between nations and in Hitler's case races) to make them fit there own totalitarian goals. Also while outlawing unions wouldn't be worth doing there books need to be open to members and the Marxists and organised crime need to be kept out of unions for them to be anything other then a tool of shady factions, I live in Canada and feel the Marxists and organised crime turned unions into a dangerous net loss for Canada(in terms of freedom, prosperity and security) and the issues are not only in Canada(there wherever Unions are not safeguarded from such bad actors). .
@@shway1 Yea I mean it's beyond idealistic, it's a kind of fantasy. Truth is they are treated differently in pay. No one part of a working interdependent machine is any more important than the other, if one part fails they all fail. For me personally though money is like this: Ants don't use money yet they work together and have different jobs. Humans use money because money and power appear synonymous, and humans have separated from all other life because of our desire to control the environment around us on some very fundamental level. Money appears to be the key to that. But it's not, people working together is the key to that, people have just bought into the lie that it can only be achieved with money. It's a scam, a scam set up by wealthy people to enslave others. Truth is people have lived on this planet without money for upwards of 500,000 years, and we'd be to some degree civilized and have some form of technology despite money if it was never invented. Think about it, most people really do hold 2 hardcore beliefs: 1. You cannot physically survive in this world without money 2. Me nor anyone else will work at all without receiving money. What a joke. It's honestly kind of creepy how hardcore of a belief that is for people. There are an insane number of people on this planet that work together and don't get paid a dime, and a staggering number of people who have never held a single dollar in any currency who live to be quite old. It's mind boggling really.
@@bgrl6422 and I could say increasing wages leads to greater consumer demand, which increases the number of jobs. increases in the minimum wage also have a tendency to push up the wages of people earning more than the new minimum. and it's not "artificially" increased by unions, it's artificially decreased by the power and information imbalance, which is why there are unions. also tbh this kind of armchair reasoning about supply and demand is pretty limited. a lot of these assumptions fall apart when you do actual economic research and realize things are much more complicated. meta-analyses show there is basically no correlation between increases in the minimum wage and unemployment.
@@SogonD.Zunatsu I feel like one's economic status should not affect one's ability to criticise someone who banned the use of high vis vests due to a dislike of bright colors in a facility that already had 6 times the rate of injuries of other companies in the aerospace industry.
*Mr Musk disagrees with the idea of unions? I'm really shocked!!!* There have always been rich people in America. But never as concentrated as today. In the 19th century, they were honestly referred to as “Robber barons”: they robbed. This is how large fortunes are created. The claim that a billionaire has acquired his wealth through hard work is ridiculous and cynical towards people who really do work hard every day. Self-made billionaires are a myth. No single person can earn billions through his work alone. But that's not all. All these billionaires hide their wealth in tax havens so that it cannot be taxed, and so failing to pay their fair share of taxes. They accumulate their wealth by paying garbage wages, utilizing tax loops and by corrupt politicians.
"Unions create a Lords and peasants situation". Whines one of the world's richest, currently going through court for not paying thousands of employees. Yep it's those damn unions...
@@MillsGotSkillsif your riches are in oil, gold, stocks, houses whatever and not cash you're still powerful. Power is the key-word. You have the means to have more power than democratic elected people have.
"For not paying thousands of employees." Why so vague? Yes the former Twitter employees who got fired but want a severance pay up to 6 months. That lawsuit was back in July and went nowhere. There's no report of him "currently going through court" for that one. You pulled that out of your ass.
One issue folks miss is there is often Wall Street pressure to lower costs, including labor costs. Executives out of ideas also cost cut. The benefit of lower costs (at least in the short run) goes to shareholders which include executives. One counterweight to wage deterioration besides quitting quitting is unions. High turnover can negatively impact a company in spite of mgmt pretending otherwise.
Traded companies are anti-worker and are beholden to chasing short term profits. It's why the economy implodes every few decades. They put short term gains ahead of long term growth, sustainability, and stability. Then, when they implode the economy, it is the mega wealthy that are in position to capitalize, getting a soft "reset" of the economy to dump their billions into. In the case of covid, we saw billionaires in some cases double their net worth in a few months. While Covid wasn't a result of irresponsible profit chasing, the result was essentially the same. Economy tanks, billionaire class only ones in position to capitalize, and they are the ones that own the giant corporations that drive the economy.
> One issue folks miss is there is often Wall Street pressure to lower costs, including labor costs. Wall Street does fack all, most of Tesla's shareholders are passive index funds who don't interfere with operations.
Unions use governmental powers to coerce employers into forcibly keeping them when they don’t want to and increasing rates without allowing the employer to legally replace them with lower cost staff. The opposite is not true though employers do not forcibly coerce employees into staying forever. Consent seems to go one way. Research why an employer cannot legally fire a union worker.
Not all businesses have an adversarial relationship with the union that represents their employees, you know. It doesn't have to be conflict oriented. It's not the unions that create the lords and peasants feeling, but the CEOs. He even admitted as such in his own just then by giving the example of the CEOs from GM and their behaviour, yet somehow turns this around as if it is the union's fault? If he truly does have an egalitarian "we're all equals" approach to his workforce, then he has nothing to fear from his workers unionising.
He feels Unions and the more snooty/corrupt of CEO's are both guilty of creating that feeling of class struggle. The bad CEO's by treating workers badly and the unions by often(not always) pushing a adversarial relationship between employee and employer even when none exists. The minute the Marxists get involved with a Union is the minute many things start to go wrong.
I don't know about China, but in Japan, the price we pay for work efficiency is the slow flaking of our humanity. I worked in an Aisin AW line where we built automatic transmissions. 10 seconds of precision work, insert a piece here, twist, insert a piece there, and repeat. 10 to 12 hours a day on a 4 day work, 2 day rest, and then 4 day night work, 2 day rest endless cycle. No music, audiobooks, or talking allowed. On top of that, they constantly played a certain melody "The Insy Winsy Spider," on repeat the entire day. But they cut the melody at "down came the rain and washed the spider out" and repeat, all day, every day. I couldn't stand it and quit after 3 months. I don't know if that's how they still do it, but it was hell, like literally. I vowed never to work a line job again. I would much rather die as cannon fodder in some unknown battle on some unknown field, and left to rot in some unknown shallow grave. Stocks? 😂 A pie in the sky utopian pipe dream. You're all lucky you have a boss like Elon! Happy Thanksgiving!
"Elon Musk: I disagree with the idea of unions" Well obviously.... Your goal is to maximize profit. You'd have slaves if that were an option. The goal of a union is to maximize wages. As someone who works for a wage, Im obviously siding with unions
True. I mean, Teslanaires are a thing... GManaires?? Not so much. Listen to the way the UAW talks about their latest deal as if they are in a war and "conquered" their own employers. A combative relationship between workers and the company just can't possibly the recipe for long term success for either party.
Musk took a 45 billion salary increase and fired 10,000 workers, and he has a 17.2 margin on his TSLA, and Mercedes has an 8.2 , margin, but workers are the problem? ELOn is the lord, give me a break.
Evs are clearly worse and we have enough oil for a long long time at the rate we are headed towards. Elon is the only 1 ev makers thats blind to how bad they are. Liberals are no hope as well. Hopeless braindead morons enslaving us literally
I like the idea of collective bargaining. Workers are just as powerful as the business but the power is difused so they often get ripped off. Workers need to bargain with the longer term interests of the business in mine because their incentives should be aligned with the success of the business. What i hate is entrenched unions who are effectively just another level of tax and bargain in their own interests. Here in Australia, unions did not support workers who were fired for not taking covid vacines. The support fringe issues and incompetent, dangerous behavior from employees.
Deny, Defend, Depose
Literally came to say this
Based
@@Infinitebruhmoment69420lol come up with something new
Musk will be deposed . Hanging with Hoffa pretty soon
free luigi
The richest man on the planet doesn't like the idea of a "lords and peasants situation". What a shocker!
Because Elon knows what it takes to build a successful business.
@@matt01155 yeah, a rich daddy
@@alessando63249 Elon is super. He came to the US with pennys and slept on office floors and showered at public gyms while starting companies. Elon is an ace…an American success story.
@@matt01155 Elon has never built anything. He is as good as a marketer as Steve Jobs but that's it.
Imagine thinking Elon Musk is the richest man on the planet.
Unions protect American workers.Huge corporations don’t make record profits from paying fair living wages.
Unions can also be bullies and thieves, some are good and some are bad
@@mckinnonbathie5945 Even an extremely corrupt union is preferable to not having one.
@@mckinnonbathie5945That rarely happens, and it’s usually because of the people elected in charge of the union…kinda like who gets elected president…
@@MetalSonicReject Look at the dockworker strike that happened on the east coast.. the dude threatened all of America if he didn't get his way.
@@mckinnonbathie5945 Because the workers weren’t getting paid what their work was worth.
You want an example of a bad union, look at how SAG-AFTRA threw most of their members under the bus by accepting a deal from studio executives involving AI clauses that were really vague and could screw their “lesser” members over, most notably voice actors, as one of the union’s board members had called them.
Shocking to know that a man who grew up as the owner of an Apartheid Emerald Mine in South Africa would be against the idea of workers having rights.
You ever do any research or you just spout lies on internet every chance you get? there was no ownership at all. His father for a short time had a stake in an emerald mine in Zambia, but none of his family ever owned one! Idiot.
lmao this isn't even true. please post your source (you won't).
@@tempesta1229it's not true, because the mine was in Zambia not South Africa.
Source - Elon's own words in 2014:
"This is going to sound slightly crazy, but my father also had a share in an emerald mine in Zambia. I was 15 and really wanted to go with him but didn’t realize how dangerous it was. I couldn’t find my passport so I ended up grabbing my brother’s -- which turned out to be six months overdue! So we had this plane load of contraband and an overdue passport from another person. There were AK-47s all over the place and I’m thinking, “Man, this could really go bad.”
Also Elon's father's words:
Errol says he first stumbled into the emerald business while flying from South Africa en route to the UK to sell a Cessna Golden Eagle plane. Landing at an airstrip near Zambia’s northern borders with Tanzania and what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, he met and befriended the Italian owner of the airstrip. It turned out the Italian employed locals to dig out emeralds deep in the Zambian bush and Errol decided to go into business with him. The workers would bring them in for shipment to Errol in what the retired electromechanical engineer described as an “under the table” operation. The Italian business partner would then pay the locals around $2 a load, enough to feed an entire family for a month, Errol says. He explained: “What Elon is saying is that there was no formal mine. “It was a rock formation protruding from the ground in the middle of nowhere. “There was no mining company. There are no signed agreements or financial statements. “No one owned anything. The deal was done on a handshake with the Italian man at a time when Zambia was a free for all. “Not even he knew exactly where the border was. At that time, it was like the Wild West.” Errol can only say for sure that the deposit was about 40 miles from where he had landed his Cessna in Kasaba Bay, which is now a tourist hub. Explaining why he thinks that Elon has pushed back on the emerald mine story, Errol said: “Elon's main concern is not to appear to be a 'trust fund kid’ who got everything given to him on a plate"
If your response to this is
"They're both just telling an elaborate lie"
What does that say about them...?
Where's my right to opt out of a union? Let me guess, lose my job? Not very free now is it?
Unions are just mafia shakedowns disguised as "fighting for better working conditions"
@@onetwo8847 "having shares" in a mine means he "owned" the mine in the same way I "own" Apple as a shareholder through my retirement.
Pay people enough and they may not need a union but that’s not what has happened historically. Working people have no leverage to negotiate as individuals against a multi million-billion dollar organization unless they have an organization.
the income effect suggest that people dont ever feel they are paid enough.
Everyone I know that works in the trades always wants to work union because they pay the best and have good benefits.
@@dankz7061 Because companies pay donations and have lobby groups. Why? To influence public policy. Get rid of political donations (legalised briary) and lobby groups and the, and only then, would your statement be true. Because when you break it all down, companies and lobby groups are just another gang of people out to maximise outcomes for themselves. So why shouldn't workers have their gangs too?
Whether you are a slave, or a worker, or a bourgeois/business owner, or an aristocratic landlord, you will never felt satisfied. "Enough" is never enough.
If you think you generated much more value than you get back, you will find it easy to get a better offer elsewhere.
Multi billion dollar corporations are actually the ones that are most receptive toward unionization and regulation, since they can stifle their competition by dramatically increase the cost of doing business for newcomers. Thus maintaining their position in the industry.
In such highly regulated and unionized environment, both the workers and the business owners can enjoy relative stability, at the cost of innovation and customer satisfaction.
That is till competitors from abroad, which operated in much more _laissez faire_ environment hit you hard with their cheaper and more innovative products.
@@barrytelesford5265 It doesn't really though. It suggests their demand will increase for quality goods while decreasing for inferior goods. Elasticity of demand still applies, as does substitutional goods. Just because I have 3x as much money as my friends, doesn't mean I wear 3x as many clothes. Maybe just slightly more expensive ones, but there's still a point of decreasing demand, and arguably my clothes are a lot better made and so last significantly longer. One doesn't become a pillock just because one's fortunes change. Most wealthy people have significant wealth tied up in illiquid assets, money they really (obviously) don't need.
I never know a CEO that love the unions
Do unions have CEOs?
@@MaximilienDantonno
Ford when he first started actually invited in and worked with the unions. That’s honestly the only example I can think of.
What do unions do and why is it so not very desired by Elon ? Thanks
@@JusZardthey deny employers the ability to exploit workers.
Wow. The richest man in history doesn’t see the need for unions. I’m . . . Shocked! 🙄
Did you listen to his reason for this?
@@davidmolesworth583 Because it's bad for his margins ? Because it's harder to cut down staff and employee salary ?
I guess you just conveniently ignored the part about the employees that were given stock in the company and have as a result become millionaires - this never happens for union members
@@elastotec173 These are startup millionaires. Not rank and file who join up later. I know people who were the original AOL staff who were similarly rewarded.
I've worked in his factory. I've seen why he doesn't want unions. It would end him.
What’s the condition like? Do you think it’s better off overall to other car factories? Are people well compensated? He makes it sound like he really understands his workers or something
Which one and what was it like? He can't be fair....
Good
LIAR
A union enabled me to save money,, get top quality healthcare for my whole family for life and retire comfortably
Tesla helped me retire comfortably, at 22
Then the company you worked for was trash for not providing that without one. The difference here is Tesla provides great benefits to all their employees, including top healthcare coverage and stock options for part ownership in the company. The more successful the company, the more the employee makes.
When a company structures itself properly all a Union is going to do is disrupt things, create division and promote bad work ethics.
Exactly, it's just about fairness.
Hard work will also achieve this goal.
@@Tiigerr You're expecting companies to structure themselves to benefit employees out of the good of their own hearts? Companies work for their shareholders' interests, not their employees.
Your example with Tesla is moot since they don't provide healthcare to all of their employees and have a history of breaking labor laws to silence people who work for them. That's not even getting into the international troubles with countries like Sweden.
Put down your Elon pom-poms and learn the benefits of organized labor.
Tesla is fighting sweden on this issue, we have very strong unions that are integrated into society and how we run everything, and tesla is trying to be an exception to this
Do you believe in freedom of choice? Or is that too old fashioned/
@@AlternativPerspectiv if an immigrant crosses the border, should they be free to do WHATEVER or should they abide by host nation's rules?
Sweden chose unions. You as a foreigner don't get to come in and throw a hissy fit.
So you chose the mafia model.. ok... @@babufits1584
@@babufits1584also applies to people
Tesla is an exception to many old ways - Tesla is literally disruptive, and I, for one, am hugely grateful. Their cars are incredible.
I worked for a union and I'm for them. I was with a carpenter union and those guys are hard working and have to go through a process to become a carpenter. We made sure they got paid properly, got amazing health insurance, and pensions
I can't speak for the American perspective of unions, however, I couldn't imagine a day at work here in Denmark without the concept of unions. Without them it would feel like a wild west market with no reciprocity between employer and employee. You don't want government set rules but for society to shape them through the free market. It's a big safety net for families and creates better transparency in a working relationship.
You nailed it
I have no idea how Americans got talked out of strong unions. It's why our society has completely eroded. But it's our life now, work hard and set yourself up right or die in the street without healthcare. I'm fortunate that I'm a software engineer who is good with money, but many others are not so fortunate.
America is overrated. The most commonly cited reason for bankruptcy is medical debt. The leading cause of death amongst minors are guns. Conservatives here don't even want school lunches to be free for kids. They are willing to let impoverished children go hungry.
@@ssiko52 Most Americans don't even know what a union is. They really have no idea what unions are, or how they work. All they are told is that greedy union bosses come in and take part of their pay. That's all they are told.
*it's a great way for the lazy and people who don't want to work hard to keep their jobs until they want to quit.
It's like Congress!
Ive worked in good unions, that stood up for me every chance they got, but I've also worked in two terrible corrupt unions that robbed me and my coworkers for their own benefit and really left a bad taste in my mouth. I think it totally depends, not all unions are good and not all of them are bad.
I think Musk would agree with this, he was referring to corrupt unions but a good union is not inconceivable.
Yes
Afaik Problem in US is that unions become monopolies. There is one union per enterprise.
In Poland there is still choice of unions. Many times they just combine their efforts if necessary, but it is good to have competition.
Unions are always good.
@@radicalaimElon Musk don't know what union is. The lord and peasant is the most stupied I ever heard and I have heard Donald Trump in video interviews.
A billionaire against unions. Never!
You didnt watch the whole video lol
What is more LOL? Me thinks it is the 42 likes. Go team!
Unions killing business? no way...
Outside of sports (which is held up by gambling anyway), name one industry that unions haven't completely f**ked.
dont be an npc...the title is put there by nbc--they are low iq'ers plus they have an agenda. dont be duped.
Richest man in the world is against unions
I've been working at a company since 2003 (basically all my adult life). I've been a union member for most of that time and not once was the union in a position to help our wages catch up to inflation. Every single year we either get no pay increase, or a pay increase that is nowhere near inflation, all while they make layoffs and more work is piled on top of what we already do.
I wish we had stock options like the ones Tesla give at a discount to employees. I would have retired by now if that were the case.
Some companies can take care of you without constant strike action, and some unions are just so useless they only take your membership fee and never have your back when you need them.
@@abuibu I used to sell credit cards to union members, most people seem fine with what their unions are doing, its rare to get someone that hates thier union.
@@steven7936 I liked my union up until we saw how pathetic they were at fighting for anyone's rights and that we were basically no safer in our positions whether or not we were members.. They were just happy to appear when they wanted their membership fees.
@@abuibuok well that’s not a problem with unions that’s a problem of a weak Union with poor leadership
We disagree with the idea of multinationals and billionaires
send them to mars ... one way ticket!!!
and communist oligarch sympathists
@@squidjames7735 don't waste food
Billionaires are a sign of a sick society
Be fair, without the unions he might be worth 500 billion instead of a measly 300bn, poor Elon
The # 1 way to overcome unions. Is the company provide better benefits with no union dues. #2 Employees are part owners the company, pay based of profits.
The employees could buy stake in the company if they want. The people who get the stake by default are the people who put their money at risk to fund the starting of the company.
When you have a union you have a negotiated contract. Without a contract the company can abuse the workers.
@@tonygrowley5275 if the workers are being abused they should leave...
@@YHDiamond Yeah... as if. Did you ever work a job you didn't like, but it paid the bills to support your family? Most people have. That's why they form unions, so they can use their collective power to level the scales.
@@tonygrowley5275 I'm not saying you shouldn't take a job you don't like, I'm saying you shouldn't take an abusive job, or if you're at one you should leave.
The free market means that individuals who sell their labor are justified in forming alliances to leverage their negotiating power. The alliance is like a corporation that sells labor to other corporations that want to buy labor. The labor-selling corporation has to be mindful of its prices and terms, and how their "customers" are able to afford them now and how they compare to foreign competition.
it's not enough tho, why can't we use the state?
@@tiramisuvodka8353commie scum
@@tiramisuvodka8353 Because it doesn't work anyways and because it is megacringe to give the state more power in any shape or form. Free markets with organised employers and organised employees is the way.
But if it's a free market, shouldn't the company be able to fire people if they form a union? It's taking the company hostage in some ways.
@@programmer1840they can they just don't sign paperwork and fire everyone nothing stopping them from that other than it cost more money to find and hire new people than to keep and pay their current employees.
in an ideal world, unions wouldn't be necessary. but it is important in order to make sure people are not being taken advantage of.
Unfortunately We don't live in an Ideal world. Companies are greedier than ever. Unions are the only way to get a honest days pay, for a honest days work.
@@davebrennan-d5yUnions are also a way to over pay the low skill workers and help drive up costs.
No. If the company offers a good rate of pay and benefits, people will want to work there. Too many unions think they deserve the same as the risk takers when they don't risk a thing. They should trade a good day's work for a fair wage. If it's not a fair wage, don't work there. The company will need to up their game to the point that they attract people/workers.
You forgot Pension, and the most important. A safe workplace, because that is the Law. Problem is too many companies and even Unionized companies, because of the CEO’s only take care of the shareholders and put the workers in danger. Non union crap jobs usually take advantage of immigrants, or temp workers. Temp workers get the most unsafe jobs because they are too scared to be sent home. Do not know the law. I live it and work it and see the abuse. If big business did’t cheat the workers, you wouldn't need Unions. But over 130 years later, they still cant figure it out. So the Need for Unions will always be. Plus all the union dues are tax deductible. another bonus. Unions earn their money. These are the FACTS. NO DISPUTE!!!!@@TeutonicNordwind
@@TeutonicNordwindMany workers can’t pick and choose. I live in Australia where we have universal healthcare, universal compulsory superannuation, 5 weeks annual paid holidays and many other benefits. These conditions were achieved by unions and the Australian Labor Party. Also we have the highest minimum wage in the world. Musk is a fair weather boss!
I disagree with any CEO that fails to negotiate in good faith. Without a union, essentially a form of government a work force has no ability to redress labor issues. Therefore you are actually a Lord without question. It is time to bring you holdings into greater antitrust scrutiny.
Why, it’s his ducking company. Why do people sign contracts then whine? Stay unemployed then. And if it’s so easy to start your own business.
@@Pezzerd because people deserve dignity? Just throwing it out there that your fellow man is a person who deserves to live and be treated well
@@Pezzerd Idk, I just thought that was a general understanding we all operate on, that people deserve to bo treated decently. Food for thought
"Without a union, essentially a form of government a work force has no ability to redress labor issues."
Yes they do. They're free to quit and work for a competitor.
@@ChiefTapion. He incentivized enough not to have one , offered something better, that’s the goal. Union when needed . They don’t want one. He said he wouldn’t stand in their way. Win , win .
You don't like lords and peasants? That's what life was literally like BEFORE UNIONS!
yeah his argument is pretty much complete nonsense
Its true though @@Shajirr_
You could also say that's what life was like before toothpaste, and you still technically wouldn't be wrong.
@@jesuschrist6878 toothpaste freed us from peasantry
Technology, not unions have made life better for all.
What he is talking about is a place where Unions don't need to exist. Yes, a union wouldn't be needed of the workers were happy and felt they were getting a fair piece of the pie.
I mean, we wouldn't need police is nobody committed crimes... Same idea
How about work the contract you sign? Don’t like it? Leave.
Without union employers are less free to just "do what they want" and that's both a blessing and a curse. In Europe unions is a pretty standard thing to be honest, not sure why Americans think it's some communist Russia type of deal
@@Ryanderson8467But Tesla’s work conditions aren’t the same. So the historical comparison is irrelevant.
So undervoted. He's not against unions in general but against them at the companies he's created because he's tried to foster a sense of community and equality between coworkers at them. He's against unions at his companies because he feels they are unnecessary.
He disagrees because it reduces his bottom line.
If businesses put half the energy into their employees as they do into making profits at all costs, there would be no unions.
Love your comment about executives separate elevators. At State Farm Insurance executives have separate underground parking. Next to that is their own elevators to whisk them up to the penthouse, bypassing the slaves so they never have to interact with common employees. Talk about a distorted version of reality!!!
that isn't a union thing.
@@juanvasquez6535 Unions create a them and us situation which was the point of Musks comment.
@@polarxta2833they don't though it's better for the company and the employee skilled labor for a fair rate
@@yesac101 Except what then happened is the companies moved overseas for cheaper labour. Australia no longer manufacture's any cars because of unions.
@@polarxta2833 No, CEOs created a them vs. us situation. CEOs have been exploiting employees at most companies for centuries. Elon says that there's no hierarchy in Tesla, but he's lying. Elon hasn't worked the line. He's never depended on a line job to provide food for his family. All Elon cares about is his own profit margin and he'll happily step on his workers in order to get it - just like every other CEO. As long as that's the case, unions will be needed.
I was part expecting the comment section to be blue pills simping for their rich overlords. This comment section is refreshing.
I would have to say that Elon is way more celebrated and simp'd on by red pills.
@@andremessado7659 I understand where you are coming from. I have a feeling he is more popular with conservatives. Not your old school hardened ones who were cynical about all forms of authority though. New age conservatives who tend to be ridiculously obsequious about wealth and power. Their reasoning mostly tends towards 'if you are right/successful/happy where is your wealth?' They seem like blue pills under the delusion they cracked the Matrix and see through it all 😄.
Maybe you should stop seeing people as purely "pills" and expand your mind.
Same here
The billionaire saying he doesn’t like unions because of the lords and peasants dynamics lmao this is hilarious
All you have to do is google how he treated Twitter employees after he bought it.
Go tell it to Earth!
You mean firing the useless people and propping up the hard workers? Man what a monster
@@donovanhouse9584 Proof?
@@KH-qy7fm the source is the employees themselves 🤣 all the people that got fired and cried on the internet worked in the Human Resources department for cultural and sociological aspects of the business. You don't see any videos of actual technicians that literally build the website crying about being fired
@@KH-qy7fm spoiler alert: its because they weren't fired. The actual useful stem majors were kept and the useless pink haired sociology majors were all fired.
It's the corporate executives who create the adversarial relationship that make unions necessaary. When the executives, who live in gated communities, and whose compensation is many multiple times more than the workers who produce the product, and whose compensation barely pays for their basic living expenses, there will be resentment and conflict.
Well said.
Agreed.
Are you kidding? Unions have as much political and financial clout as rich people these days. Unions are equally responsible. I've worked in corporate America with no unions for 23 years across multiple companies and I have never experienced any animosity from management.
@@jpete3027666corporations haven't increased wages to match worker's productivity... and more recently, to match historic inflation.... that is the animosity we speak of
Do you have to work for them if it’s that bad? If they are such scoundrels, you should be ashamed of yourself to work for them in the first place.
I disagree with the idea of billionaires
Lol. Touché
Why because you are jealous that you don't have the skill to get there?
If you come up with the next big idea, invest all your money and time into to risk bankruptcy, and all that hard work pays off and the company becomes a global phenomenon where your shares make you a multi-billionaire within years. What have you done wrong? and what would you do in that position since you "disagree with the idea of billionaires"?
@@abuibuI’d limit my compensation and pay my workers higher salaries - say at Amazon for starters. You wonder why American wages have stagnated when CEOs are paying themselves 300x (2000x for abezos)the average salary. There is no money tree. We can all be prosperous, but not if the top is siphoning off too much.
@dannysullivan3951 The gap between the upper echelons of a company and its workers is often ludicrous. When someone can earn what you earn in a year on one regular day it's obviously unfair.
But I've never seen a union successfully change that
This Headline is so mis-leading. He had a great answer to that loaded question.
And yes it is true, I come from a union household. I absolutely understand and appreciate the reason why we have unions. But in some cases, they are completely unnecessary and they stifle expansion and job growth opportunities. And some unions also have a tendency for protecting incompetent staff.
So unless people are getting grossly underpaid or being forced to work in unsafe conditions = there's absolutely no reason to have a union.
"If people want a union then we failed" says the guy who wants people at Twitter to sleep in the office and work 20 hour days
For paying six figures he demands a six figure work ethic. You problem?
@@Lukaszplgrom Salary is determined by your value to the company's ability to make profit, not by the number of hours you work.
@@Lukaszplgrom yeah because shitposting on Twitter everyday is really working hard
@@timdurgan but what if the number of hours you work is a direct contributor to the value you generate
Oh don't forget he wants everyone to have large families of kids to populate the world. He himself isn't a present father. But maybe he's suggesting women go back to only child care.
"No lords and peasants, everyone should eat at the same table." If there has ever been a time in humanity to change this, it's now!
yeah unions are there to get a seat at the table.
US Oligarchs love XI he keeps people inline permanent ruling class standing O all hail president for life XI
nope
i dont want to eat at the same table as meth addicts and junkies.
It's a great idea. No one in Musk's position has presented a single good idea on how to make that happen. They all just lobby for more power.
"I don't like unions, lords and peasants. I'd prefer there just being lords - and nobody else talking" lol. Unions can ask for too much, same as Execs can be greedy. But fundamentally, it's absurd to be against humans grouping up to increase their leverage, if they're being mistreated. If Musk can keep the workers content and avoid a union, good for him. But he saying he's a Saint-Friend of all workers, begs the question, do others love him as much as he says all love him? Don't tell him to his face, it's said he fires ya on the spot - and with no Union protection, you're gone Lol
Regardless of what party you lean towards the average worker does not have a seat at the table. We don’t have lobbyists fighting for our best interest. We don’t have politicians, red or blue fighting for our best interest. Greed has broken democracy and it is going to get much worst with this administration now with Billionaires being appointed. They want us divided cause it makes us beatable.
And now with the GOP in charge they are going to union bust.
Democrats tried to pass PRO act.
As a person who retired from a skilled trade union, we are not like govt. employees. They can lay us off with no explanation needed. We go back to the hall and take another job. The unions with seniority are the real issue. No way to get rid of deadwood at all
deadweight
That is correct. When someone with seniority can stay above someone who is a harder worker, there is a problem.
Why are they deadweight? Too old to work?
@@clydecash5659 no. Seniority kills motivation. In the skilled trades seniority does not exist. We have no problem at all with older workers. They show up everyday to work. It’s the younger ones we have issues with.
@@clydecash5659 seniority is just another name for socialism. I don’t have to do anything and you can’t get rid of me…..
Almost all companies are against unions because it takes some of the power away from the employer and gives it to the lowly worker. It's all about keeping your job as insecure as possible. That way employees are less likely to complain about their working conditions. Keep people scared for their jobs and they'll keep their mouths shut.
Companies tend to be against unions because they slowly burn profits ultimately slowly burning down entire industries . Why are so many coal mining towns , ghost towns now
"Fear will keep them in line"-Grand Moff Tarkin
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Of course. He pays in average at least 10% less than the unionized companies for example in Germany or in Sweden.
That’s probably correct, but taxes in Germany are 17% higher on wages than the US, and Sweden is roughly 30% higher than an OECD nation like the U.S., so comparatively, it’s better for the Tesla employees to be paid 10% less.
Ask how many gm union employees are millionaires because of their stock options. Unions were good in the beginning but the UAW is too corrupt at this point and will inevitability be responsible for bankrupting the big 3
Once part of a union you are a slave to the union, having the option not to be part of a union is the freedom option.
Unions sometimes get so big, it becomes a government itself, just as dethatched from the workers as governments usually is today.
@@michaeldodd3563 That's not how that works.
@@ShiftheadsO.k. how many. Do you also understand who benefits from stock buybacks, I'll give you a clue, it's not the employees. I guess someone should really tell unions they should stop raising the CEO's pay by so much. Shame on the unions for doing that.
I have spoken to many americans that are against unions. The problem is that most of the time they don't fully understand how a proper union is managed and what they actually do for the society and it's people. Where I come from they are in active conversations with the various businesses and everyone always try to come to an agreement before going on strike. But sometimes the workers, the unions and the businesses are so far apart from one another that a strike occurs. And then usually they meet each other halfway. So it's not that having unions are bad, the businesses are the same. When they do come to an agreement you notice very fast that there was actually room for negotiations and the workers got better paid.
Or got out of a job cause the company went belly up. In America, that is the case a lot of times. The unions can make it so hard to remove useless employees that the company suffers as a whole in the long run, and then everyone's out looking for new work.
All a 'proper' union does is steal from a company who is forced by that to do a variety of things because of it... all or some of....raising its price on its goods or service....lay off or fire employees to compensate and other possibilities including putting businesses out of work...and looking at the 'big picture hurts everyone...the mantra used in the government bailout of the automobile industries was...according to the commie at the time was...they are too big to fail....no they are not...tax payers funded corrupt 'unions'
The Toyota Camry sold millions more than Tesla Model Y. In total, Toyota Camry sold 30mil units globally, Tesla Model Y sold 3.4mil units. The best selling Camry model is the Toyota Camry LE, making up about 60% of Toyota Camry sales at 12.5-18mil units. The best selling version of the Tesla Model Y is the Long Range AWD, accounting for 60-70% of its sales at 2-2.4mil units.
The purpose of the union is to try, often unsuccessfully, to equalise the power differential between capital and labour. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I worked for a big social media company, before the union got involved they were stricter and gave out warnings suspension without salary no batrhom time issues with holiday request, once the union got involved the power balanced changed in favour of the employee, everybody looks out for their own interests and the unions give the workers more power thats straight facts
Lol. Nice try.
How long have you been a Union representative
Me too. I submitted a script and the company didn’t pay me for the work for 4 months. The reason? They couldn’t be bothered. Not until the WGA got involved and made this company pay me. The work took me four months to create and I couldn’t pay mortgage buy food etc until I was paid. Some people are idiots. They don’t understand how important unions are even when the unions are helping them.
Well of course he doesn’t believe in unions. 😆😆😆😆
My company hates its revenue generating employees and always seeks to limit any amount of sharing the company’s success with them at every turn. We actually had a chapter 11 and the ceo flew to Europe for an in person visit to a supplier that anyone else would have gained the info off a website. They earned our union because without it they’d ultimately fail due to not having any employees left.
Quit
you should just go work for someone else if they are that bad. unions are terrorists filled with talentless people who can't simply get jobs at other companies.
Unions are necessary to keep balance because not all employers are as progressive as Elon claims to be.
Exactly. It would be utterly foolish to trust anyone who desires that power without safeguard. That's what a Union is. He knows that, and so no matter what he says his word shouldn't be entirely trusted. Even if he can be trusted him and his ethos are temporary.
CLAIMS YET THERES PLENTY OF EVIDENCE OF HIM BEING AWFUL TO HIS EMPLOYERS DISMISSED BY SECURITY CARD BEING WIPED NOT A WORD OF THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AT THE COMPANY. I WOULDNT TRUST HIM FOR A SECOND
I disagree with the idea of getting screwed by giant corporations.
In Mitt Romney's book, when his father ran and had saved American Motors, he was surprised that he was not to be allowed to go onto the factory shop floor without guards because he would not be safe!
Wouldn't need unions if corporations weren't the greediest entities in the entire universe
You need to be more specific.
Exactly
It is that simple.
Because unions are not greedy, right? In my country unions have destroyed entire industries with the sole purpose of get established as powers, they even force the national government to take all the policy decisions that they want by enforcing nation-wide strikes on transports, paralizing the economy until the conflict resolves in their favor. Union leaders have gain so much power here that their sons literally inherit the leadership and many don't even care about workers. A lot of times workers would prefer to stay out of the union, but they are now forced to join because otherwise the union makes sure they don't get prioritized to get the jobs. At least corporations need to play by market rules, they can go bankrupt and workers would eventually go away if their payment is too bad, while unions here have been controlled for decades by the same dynasties and keep shielding themselves behind labor laws that they protect with strikes and violence. They pay people to go to public places and create chaos. I'm not exaggerating, some years back they attacked the national congress while on session to stop an unfavorable law, by surrounding the building and throwing thousands of stones. If police intervenes strikers promote confrontation and let their people die, so then they can make a propaganda show on the media convincing the population of how bad the government is that it killed these poor citizens that were "only defending their rights". All started like is now starting in USA. Beware of what you wish for.
@@mist273 Unions in the USA are the only reason workers have rights, such as 8hr work days, weekends off, minimum wage, child labor, maternal leave, etc. You should do more research on early 20th century america.
@@Th3Chuzzl3r Ok fair enough, I don't know much about USA labor history so it might be in a different situation that I'm not aware of. I'm just saying that you need to be careful, because any power structure like that is subject to inefficiency, corruption and big time bad economic impact. Unions brought short-term benefits for workers here, but their long term impact on the economy was disastrous. The key is to setup the right incentives.
Unions create a lord and peasants? No sir, you already did that.
We have weekends because unions pushed for more breaks in the latter half of the 19th century. Then in the 1930s the weekend was finally here. Mostly due to unions and then employers noticing an increase in production.
Henry Ford, a capitalist, created the weekends in 1920’s because he understood it would increase productivity.
It’s in unions interests to take as much credit as possible.
@@realityalwaysbulliesopinio1961 I think time off on a Saturday on Sunday started in Manchester in the 19th century. Ford gave the full 48 hrs
@@HENRYGCOLLINS Saint Monday was customary in Britain even earlier in the 19th century for those who filled their quotas.
Bank holidays were also introduced in 1871 by a banker.
People were having days off way before unions.
voting rights too depending on your country
If GM has private elevators for their senior executives then maybe it’s the mindset of administration that is creating a mentality of lords and peasants and the unions are simply a response to that type of work environment.
It's a chicken-egg situation I think. Collective bargaining REINFORCES the lords and peasants culture. It's like the plebians of ancient Rome; having one collective vote is better than zero, but you are still serfs of the nobility.
Unions are always doomed due to middle management and over-regulation. Individual bargaining leverages better pay, better production, and less bureaucratic waste
@@trequor please study the history of labor, you are talking out your ass. Unions are the only reason we have made progress and allowed any bargaining at all i.e. the 5 day work week, 40 hour work week etc.
I disagree with the idea of Billionaires. Bigly.
Try a Trillionaire.
Billionaire: i don't like unions
No surprise there
This guy worked on the line guys, hes just like us peasants, the richest guy in the world is just like us
Worked on the line for a few minutes with his body guards around him, more likely.
Yeah right! Born into blood money, never worked an honest day in his life. Gimme a break. Of course he doesn't, they're completely antithetic to any worldview he's ever had to experience.
This is the first time I've watched a full interview on CNBC
this is still only a clip of the full interview....
Wew congratulations on watching a 5 minute clip.
@@flouserschirdCNBC is unbearably biased
@@flouserschirdAs if that was his point ...
Why? Musk is painful to listen to.
If not for labor unions, the world would be a "lords and peasants" environment... company stores, company schools, company dorms for families, etc., along with the company thugs like the Pinkertons. Unions have gone awry, with the government employees having their own unions which is absolutely absurd, resulting in the deterioration of public education, and police and firefighters unions, resulting in fatal welfare checks, pet shootings, and no personal responsibility. But labor unions, though badly needing restoration, are necessary.
Unions had a place at the time you mentioned. But that time has long passed. I am a union worker and I can tell you 100% the only thing a union does anymore is cause anger towards fellow workers, cause good workers to be lazy and further divides workers and management. It truly gives the workers and management an adversarial relationship. I have only been with the union for 7 years and I had a brother work 30 years and retire. The few industries the unions remain a hold of are being hurt by them. And of course I'm in 100% agreement with you that government unions are wrong and should be illegal.
Remember, this guy now has a seat in government. You voted for this.
"If tesla ends up unionizing it is because WE deserve it and we failed someway" -Musk
Cnn- "Musk admits to HATING unions"
I feel like this went over most peoples heads .. most companies don’t offer stock options or benefits tbh
Ah yes, the mind-reading question. Does he really like the idea of fair and equal pay for the workers, or does he actually hate the idea of somebody’s somebodies ganging together for negotiations?
I’m really honestly open to either side of this, should he ever decide to reach out to me…
Because I’m not a mind-reader. 😂
Pretty simple. If you are having a hard time retaining people you should consider paying them more. That would do the trick
A company can only pay their workers more if the end customer is willing to pay more for the product. You can't try to build cheaper cars while paying more wages at the same time. Where do you think money comes from? Go read a book.
Right on!
@@AashrayPaul97not necessarily you could also simply reduce your profit margins to facilitate a wage increase.
Tesla had net profits in 2022 of 12.5 Billion dollars
All I'm saying is nobody owes anybody anything. If you can't retain people for difficult work at a certain price point you should consider increasing the pay in order to incentivize workers to stay. If not then you need to be ok with large turnover. If you can't afford the higher pay, then you need to plan how to handle the high turnover. But I have a feeling that Tesla has plenty of profit margin to cover a pay increase.
NO! Musk CANNOT raise wages at his own expense. He has to be able to eat!
Having worked both union and nonunion, i would say both are good for a balance of power / fairness ? The non union jobs usually try to give perks to keep from becoming union. I suppose without unions there would be no incentive for such things.
They offer incentives because thats less costly than having a union form. So no matter how you boil it down, they're trying to keep more money in their own pockets.
Yes, unions even help non union workers!
@@tonygrowley5275Problem with unions is that low performers benefit the most.
@@cory99998 It's called capitalism. Regardless of our opinions, capitalism has raised the standards of living for all classes than any other system. I'm not saying there is not anything better. I'm saying to date, there has not been anything better. We are open for idea's. Any idea's?
@@homeontherange733 It's pretty simple, socialist elements being incorporated into the current system
"I don't want lords and peasants"
Ok sell/redistribute all your stock, dismantle the board of directors, and convert Tesla into a worker-owned cooperative
I would rather take stock options than be in a union. Let's get real, people.
How about stock options in your union contract
we dont all have that option
Can literally have both. I don't know where people get the idea that you have to choose between them comes from.
@@brianleonard6598it comes from capitalists.
@@Louis13XIII You aren't wrong.
I read a lot of people making claims that unions are bad or not resulting in what they need. Remember US is one of the only countries in western society that is this far behind on this subject. The biggest car brands in Germany have unions. (BMW, Mercedes, Porsche) In Germany I believe it is by law that they even need a representative of the general work force in board meetings and have full voting rights. So if the general luxury brands can do it so can American brands. I am always so amazed at how these US workers get taken advantage off. And this notion of that this makes brands less competitive is such a joke.
If, for no other reason at all, unions are good at keeping companies from screwing us more! That’s why Elon does not like unions
the workers in the us make far more than the ones in germany, not much of an advantage there
Just because some people elsewhere can, it doesn't mean we should here. We have so many red tapes, regulations, and taxes that standardizing unions might affect the job market of small and medium businesses, who are the largest employers). The central issue is endless money printing (inflation) and a government that's too large to bare. It is government that worsened the cost of living through taxes and inflation. One paycheck was sufficient for a decent life in the 50s because the currency was sound and the government was small. This whole union/company infighting let's loose the main culprit (government).
@@aritvanegas619 yep but we spend more on average and we have additional costs like health care that are already covered in the take-home pay in Germany, so I don't really agree that we make more ("purchasing power")
@@bengsynthmusicPlease stop simping for the political elite. This is literal brainwashing. You’re against your own interests.
I disagree with the idea of billionaires. Heavily marginally tax them out of existence.
I used to think like that, but then I realised it was just the envy talking and that heavily taxing them out of existence reduces incentives for huge ideas and products to get developed and scaled up that make all our lives better.
I had been a card carrying union member from 1998 until 2017, for two different Unions. The Unions created an adversarial relationship between the represented employees and management. Management would want to do something cool for the employees, but the Union would scream about it. So I understand the Lords/Peasants concept that Musk is talking about here. The Union jobs I had promoted lowest common denominator type work and if you exceeded expectations that was treated no differently than if you only met expectations. Seniority was the only reason you got promoted, not ability, education, work ethic or anything else. I left my Union job in 2017 and started working for a company that valued my abilities and work ethic, have had many promotions and raises based on that. I have never been happier.
NAA IT NEVER HAPPENED
Unions only work in trades that can’t be exported. In every other situation they drive jobs overseas.
@@Ryanderson8467 it’s not more efficient as a nation to decrease the amount of people working and increase the tax burden on those that still do by driving jobs overseas. I’m sorry, I deal with unions on construction jobs all the time, they aren’t more efficient. They don’t always do the best work. They drive up costs on construction projects. The combination of 4 million less people in the work force since COVID, government regulations on building codes, and inflation have driven home prices and rents so high that people live in tents. Come over to reality, it’s a nice place to live.
USA was mostly non union in eighties when jobs were exported.
easy to brush off the old "lord and peasant" situation when you are the executive
It’s kind of insane really. He is a billionaire and whether he admits it or not, semantics do not matter because when compared with the average employee at his companies, they are at the complete mercy of his decisions.
You SOOOoooo missed the point.... Dude... try again....
@@EVChargers-d9z look into how current and ex-Tesla employees are treated.
edit: why is your name EV Chargers 😂😂😂 what am i up against
@@EVChargers-d9z no i think you did.
That’s the piece of work that helped elect Trump. That’s what some of these union people voted for alongside with Trump. Never forget that!
So you're saying that the billionaire nepo baby is against unions? Shocking
"China is super-good at manufacturing and I think there work ethic is incredible." You can't make this up. Is this what America wants for its future???
Could you explain your comment please
What do you mean? He's stating a fact. He's looking at the data. I don't understand your question.
yeah.
they want americans to work like chinese with no rights
Objective truth is objective truth. Just like Mexicans can out work most American born citizens. The mentality is just different.
Greed is why you need a union until the union smells blood and then you need a co-op instead of a union.
Reminds me when they told us they needed market recovery to squeeze out the old blood.
The old ways ruined the unions image they told our class. Lift the burdens of the countries economic troubles and shoulder it up where it needs to be. Get it done right the first time.
What an orientation day.
Took me a while to realize it was not just a union apprenticeship, but a newer collaboration in a wider contractor pool to work with the unions to turn out more skilled journeypeople.
And it took another couple years to realize that turn was woke!
An instructor actually told our class we were the wrong minorities for a certain opportunity we were competing for.
What a career building experience of trial by fire.
Don't even get me started on what could of been hazing.
This topic is always hard for me not to rage a bit over.
I've seen lesser people use up good hard workers and that wasn't right.
Some of us were lucky to survive our injuries because of someone's greed.
Alright done adding context.
I Disagree with the Idea of a Single Person being a Billionaire.
I worked on writing softwares for gm and fords defined benefit pension plans. The running joke was that these were retirement homes masquerading as car manufacturers. They spent more money on retired employees than on innovation.
thats why these brands are losing to Elon and co
Exactly. Ford and GM are not car manufacturers; they are pension fund organizations.
What does all this "innovation" get us at this point? We had a great way of life up until "innovation" started happening.
@@denysivanov3364and already lost to Toyota
Only americans can be so stupid as to see getting a good pension and not being left with nothing after retirement as a bad thing
I grew up in an automotive town in Michigan,
The population was cut in half, and those left 30% are in poverty. My father would tell me stories about people that would clock in walk across the street to a bar for eight hours come back and clock out ,that’s the union. That’s why a truck cost $80,000.
That is a management problem not a union problem.
EVs are successful in China because of the policies in China. They made it expensive to own a gasoline car so people are forced to give in to EVs... 😂
When you're done parroting your echo chamber, do the math.
Wrong
actually they dont have a choice but EV
You are a fool bruh
@@Cordycep1 oh I havent heard of that before, why can't they buy IC engine cars?
first of all to address what musk said, EV cars are widespread in China because the people dont have a choice , the government simply forces their will upon the people. 2) of the “work ethic“ again is forced upon them because of the extremely low pay to European countries in the US .and 3 if the public has not noticed by now, products made in China, unlike Japan are inferior as we’ve seen with all the bike battery explosions so if you’re going to use China as a model that’s a pretty low bar. and finally I completely disagree with Elon on unions unions of vital but with the caveat private units! Not public sector unions private union employees are paid fairly but they’re also subject to strict rules Liakh government and city unions who can do whatever they want and get away with it so that distinction has to be made I personally 100% in favor of private unions I think they should be more private unions.
“We made many people on the line - who didn’t know what stock options were - we’ve made them millionaires”
complete lie lol
Cope
Although Tesla workers have stock options, their compensation is far less than the UAW’s compensation package at GM, Ford and Stellantis. At Tesla, it’s $45 an hour in wages and benefits versus about $65 for UAW workers at the Detroit automakers - and that was before the UAW won a 25% raise over four and a half years after its six-week strike.
I would not want to be a UAW worker right now. Good for them that they won the pay raises they were after, but there's no future in their industry.
Tesla already move to texas@@Ryanderson8467
But then you would have to live in Detroit. Lol
The future of a UAW worker is a jobless one
Actually, that’s incorrect not all workers at GM made $45 an hour much of their labor force was part time and got no benefits while my wife worked there for a couple years between 2018 and 2020. Her hourly wage was $18 an hour, if she would’ve been able to afford to stay there, she would’ve been made a full-time employee and eventually would’ve made a much higher hourly wage and her wage would’ve went up significantly but not to the $65 an hour wage you mentioned
Having a hierarchy that gets down in the trenches with the workers would be beneficial in helping them lead more efficiently. Every parent or aunt/uncle of young children knows that you have to be able to get on the level of understanding of the person before you can provide adequate support.
having a union that can do collective bargaining on behalf of the workers would be beneficial. this idea of bosses and workers magically transcending their class differences and working together in harmony is remeniscent of volksgemeinschaft which was embraced by the nazis while they initially pretended to be on the side of workers.
Argentina is full of unions, how is it working for them? Incompetent workers that cant be fired, corrupt unions that work for the powerfull and keep the poor on the floor, black market of goods, its just a mess
Believing in unions is for naive people that think humans will just unite for the greater good and be happy, never using an unregulated un controled power for their own benefits, joning forces with the same people you were supposed to fight
People are so naive or dishonest...
@@shway1 Every Marxist ideology(and yes I count fascism, communism and wokism as Marxist) claims to be on the side of workers when its time to recruit but end up betraying workers by imposing unhinged systems, Hitler and Mussolini simply took good ideas(like Nationalism and class cooperation) and twisted them almost beyond recognition(partially by applying Marx ideas of group struggle to the relationship between nations and in Hitler's case races) to make them fit there own totalitarian goals. Also while outlawing unions wouldn't be worth doing there books need to be open to members and the Marxists and organised crime need to be kept out of unions for them to be anything other then a tool of shady factions, I live in Canada and feel the Marxists and organised crime turned unions into a dangerous net loss for Canada(in terms of freedom, prosperity and security) and the issues are not only in Canada(there wherever Unions are not safeguarded from such bad actors). .
@@shway1 Yea I mean it's beyond idealistic, it's a kind of fantasy. Truth is they are treated differently in pay. No one part of a working interdependent machine is any more important than the other, if one part fails they all fail.
For me personally though money is like this: Ants don't use money yet they work together and have different jobs. Humans use money because money and power appear synonymous, and humans have separated from all other life because of our desire to control the environment around us on some very fundamental level. Money appears to be the key to that.
But it's not, people working together is the key to that, people have just bought into the lie that it can only be achieved with money. It's a scam, a scam set up by wealthy people to enslave others. Truth is people have lived on this planet without money for upwards of 500,000 years, and we'd be to some degree civilized and have some form of technology despite money if it was never invented.
Think about it, most people really do hold 2 hardcore beliefs:
1. You cannot physically survive in this world without money
2. Me nor anyone else will work at all without receiving money.
What a joke. It's honestly kind of creepy how hardcore of a belief that is for people. There are an insane number of people on this planet that work together and don't get paid a dime, and a staggering number of people who have never held a single dollar in any currency who live to be quite old. It's mind boggling really.
@@bgrl6422 and I could say increasing wages leads to greater consumer demand, which increases the number of jobs. increases in the minimum wage also have a tendency to push up the wages of people earning more than the new minimum. and it's not "artificially" increased by unions, it's artificially decreased by the power and information imbalance, which is why there are unions. also tbh this kind of armchair reasoning about supply and demand is pretty limited. a lot of these assumptions fall apart when you do actual economic research and realize things are much more complicated. meta-analyses show there is basically no correlation between increases in the minimum wage and unemployment.
he doesn't want a lords and peasants situation but doesn't mention the peasants never had any power before they organized.
History tells us, the working man will always need unions
Why is Elon musk being asked about any of this? His opinions should matter not.
"No lords and peasants" says the billionaire....
Try starting your own company , id10t
@@crtruthmusic866 you'll never be that rich, why defend him?
@@DMoneys36Your logic is : "I'll never be that rich, I'll attack him !". WEAK
@@SogonD.Zunatsu I feel like one's economic status should not affect one's ability to criticise someone who banned the use of high vis vests due to a dislike of bright colors in a facility that already had 6 times the rate of injuries of other companies in the aerospace industry.
*Mr Musk disagrees with the idea of unions? I'm really shocked!!!*
There have always been rich people in America. But never as concentrated as today. In the 19th century, they were honestly referred to as “Robber barons”: they robbed. This is how large fortunes are created. The claim that a billionaire has acquired his wealth through hard work is ridiculous and cynical towards people who really do work hard every day. Self-made billionaires are a myth. No single person can earn billions through his work alone. But that's not all. All these billionaires hide their wealth in tax havens so that it cannot be taxed, and so failing to pay their fair share of taxes. They accumulate their wealth by paying garbage wages, utilizing tax loops and by corrupt politicians.
The only way is to maintain a balance on the power given to unions and the management.
The only vay* to maintain a balance on power given to unions and vanagement*
Yeah like the balance between Elon and his board of Directors that are willing to pay him billions?
The CEO of GM is taking down $20,000,000 (that's TWENTY million!) dollars per year. Those bad, bad unions!
The fact that he gives options is a huge lever he has to fight off unionization.
"Unions create a Lords and peasants situation".
Whines one of the world's richest, currently going through court for not paying thousands of employees. Yep it's those damn unions...
You know his riches are in stock and not cash. In companies he built...
@@MillsGotSkillsif your riches are in oil, gold, stocks, houses whatever and not cash you're still powerful. Power is the key-word. You have the means to have more power than democratic elected people have.
Who didn't he pay 🤔
@@iamworthy1302nobody. Its just hate against Elon.
"For not paying thousands of employees." Why so vague? Yes the former Twitter employees who got fired but want a severance pay up to 6 months. That lawsuit was back in July and went nowhere. There's no report of him "currently going through court" for that one. You pulled that out of your ass.
What a shocker, the richest man in the world doesn't like not being able to exploit his workers for his own gain.
One issue folks miss is there is often Wall Street pressure to lower costs, including labor costs. Executives out of ideas also cost cut. The benefit of lower costs (at least in the short run) goes to shareholders which include executives.
One counterweight to wage deterioration besides quitting quitting is unions. High turnover can negatively impact a company in spite of mgmt pretending otherwise.
Traded companies are anti-worker and are beholden to chasing short term profits. It's why the economy implodes every few decades. They put short term gains ahead of long term growth, sustainability, and stability. Then, when they implode the economy, it is the mega wealthy that are in position to capitalize, getting a soft "reset" of the economy to dump their billions into. In the case of covid, we saw billionaires in some cases double their net worth in a few months. While Covid wasn't a result of irresponsible profit chasing, the result was essentially the same. Economy tanks, billionaire class only ones in position to capitalize, and they are the ones that own the giant corporations that drive the economy.
> One issue folks miss is there is often Wall Street pressure to lower costs, including labor costs.
Wall Street does fack all, most of Tesla's shareholders are passive index funds who don't interfere with operations.
Unions use governmental powers to coerce employers into forcibly keeping them when they don’t want to and increasing rates without allowing the employer to legally replace them with lower cost staff.
The opposite is not true though employers do not forcibly coerce employees into staying forever.
Consent seems to go one way.
Research why an employer cannot legally fire a union worker.
Not all businesses have an adversarial relationship with the union that represents their employees, you know. It doesn't have to be conflict oriented. It's not the unions that create the lords and peasants feeling, but the CEOs. He even admitted as such in his own just then by giving the example of the CEOs from GM and their behaviour, yet somehow turns this around as if it is the union's fault? If he truly does have an egalitarian "we're all equals" approach to his workforce, then he has nothing to fear from his workers unionising.
You sir, hit the analysis on the head
He feels Unions and the more snooty/corrupt of CEO's are both guilty of creating that feeling of class struggle. The bad CEO's by treating workers badly and the unions by often(not always) pushing a adversarial relationship between employee and employer even when none exists. The minute the Marxists get involved with a Union is the minute many things start to go wrong.
The problem is that a union may demand way more
@@grav8241 Sometimes even more then a business can payout.
@@Wolf-oc6tx And sometimes a business won't pay enough for people to survive.
I don't know about China, but in Japan, the price we pay for work efficiency is the slow flaking of our humanity.
I worked in an Aisin AW line where we built automatic transmissions.
10 seconds of precision work, insert a piece here, twist, insert a piece there, and repeat.
10 to 12 hours a day on a 4 day work, 2 day rest, and then 4 day night work, 2 day rest endless cycle.
No music, audiobooks, or talking allowed.
On top of that, they constantly played a certain melody "The Insy Winsy Spider," on repeat the entire day.
But they cut the melody at "down came the rain and washed the spider out" and repeat, all day, every day.
I couldn't stand it and quit after 3 months.
I don't know if that's how they still do it, but it was hell, like literally.
I vowed never to work a line job again.
I would much rather die as cannon fodder in some unknown battle on some unknown field, and left to rot in some unknown shallow grave.
Stocks? 😂
A pie in the sky utopian pipe dream.
You're all lucky you have a boss like Elon!
Happy Thanksgiving!
"Elon Musk: I disagree with the idea of unions" Well obviously.... Your goal is to maximize profit. You'd have slaves if that were an option. The goal of a union is to maximize wages. As someone who works for a wage, Im obviously siding with unions
Union also watches for the health and benefits of its workers
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt"
Imagine calling the richest man on earth a fool.
@@R3tr0v1ru5 Imagine being simple enough to think wealth equates to intelligence.
True. I mean, Teslanaires are a thing... GManaires?? Not so much. Listen to the way the UAW talks about their latest deal as if they are in a war and "conquered" their own employers. A combative relationship between workers and the company just can't possibly the recipe for long term success for either party.
Imagine claiming with a straight face that nobody is loyal to brands like Chevy or Ford.
Nothing strikes fear into CEO’s more than union coming in. Being incredibly appreciative of workers means compensating $$$
Musk took a 45 billion salary increase and fired 10,000 workers, and he has a 17.2 margin on his TSLA, and Mercedes has an 8.2 , margin, but workers are the problem? ELOn is the lord, give me a break.
Workers standing up for their rights, what's not to love? ❤
It's cute that he thinks tesla will be number one in EV's.
Evs are clearly worse and we have enough oil for a long long time at the rate we are headed towards. Elon is the only 1 ev makers thats blind to how bad they are. Liberals are no hope as well. Hopeless braindead morons enslaving us literally
Go tell it to Earth!
Well Elon was right
The cyber truck is nothing but a meme at this point. Teslas were built wi
I like the idea of collective bargaining. Workers are just as powerful as the business but the power is difused so they often get ripped off.
Workers need to bargain with the longer term interests of the business in mine because their incentives should be aligned with the success of the business.
What i hate is entrenched unions who are effectively just another level of tax and bargain in their own interests.
Here in Australia, unions did not support workers who were fired for not taking covid vacines. The support fringe issues and incompetent, dangerous behavior from employees.
Of course he does
They cost him money 🤣🤣🤣