"it's hard to watch" -> valorant pro player -> valorant esport be like: lets use 10 ults at the same time, kill everyone, no one understands shit, not even the casters, game ends
@@Finland-od7gbexcept league?😂 MOBAs have it worse. I think good esports games with great viewing experience for casuals or total newcomers or even non gamers are shooting game and fighting games. These are super easy to see what’s happening and be drawn in by good commentary and have a good time without needing to know the game ins and out or deep knowledge of the meta.
Gotta disagree. Deadlock is significantly easier to watch than overwatch or a moba like dota or league (cant compare to valorant cause ive never watched that garbage lmao). Mainly due to the coloring, the environment is bland while effects are vibrant which reduces visual clutter and makes it easier to see what is going on
@ITZBROKENhotDOG12 incorrect Also the point is less about how intelligent you are at understanding the game and more about how easy it is to tell whats going on Hard to tell whats going on spectating in ow even if you are a good player who knows everything about the game just due to the visual clutter
@@ITZBROKENhotDOG12how tf is a moba hard to understand man? You build your character and fight your character and keep an eye on spawn timers it’s that simple coordinate with your team on those times to see which OBJ you are going for and try to win. Very simple games people just make them harder than they have to be
it's a common misconception that any game that is remotely complex will be bad for spectating, this is a take held by mainly CS and valo players, even though LOL and Dota are the two biggest esports in the world, with both of them being worse to spectate than Deadlock
Its because of the third person aspect of it. In other mobas, you can see what 2 or more people are doing at the same time because of the top down nature of it.
@@ljjebi in fact I think that since it is third person, spectators are able to more easily relate to each player. A top down spectator cam can be easily provided as well
league is only a big esport cause it has a MASSIVE player base. Now I don't have the stats but I get the feeling that only a very small % of league players have any interest in the esport but since the playerbase is so huge it amounts to a lot of viewers. CS has a much smaller playerbase than league but still has comparable views to league because the average player is more likely to watch the esports. I'd say the reason for that is that CS is inherently a more competetive game. It's very hard to play cs casually, it's almost always sweaty. League offers you many ways to play casually and it's a more chill environment to play in.
if the argument only because "its hard to watch, confusing for viewers" i just dont buy it. League of Legends viewership its 6.4 million (All-time Peak Viewers) and it is a MOBA game, Mobile Legends: Bang Bang (its mobile game btw) viewership 5.1 million All-time Peak Viewers and it is a MOBA game... so clearly moba isnt the problem gamer would know what happened.. the only problem that i can think of is just the camera perspective.. in MOBA you have "bird view perspective"... i just dont know how they would approach this game for viewers with the camera view perspective.. and for the "casual wont understand" i dont know who said it but "you dont build live service game base on casual" and i agreed with that statement because casual would just leave.. its for the people who actually love the game or you may say "hardcore fans", why do you think game like CS still have huge amount of player after 20 years? or maybe game like LoL, WoW, or any other live service game that already established almost 10+ years? its because the "hardcore fans" not because some "casual fans".
I think quick replay and caster explaining what happened previously is a way to solve this during the match. Dota 2 also do this IIRC. It's a MOBA so only some parts are highlight worthy.
@@oozy1333 yeah not sure why people are making these comparisons. Dota & League are both top down and map movements take significantly longer than in Deadlock. Ganking another lane takes longer. Movement spells like Blink and Flash are like an inch or two on the screen.
But what I like about Deadlock is how straight forward some of the abilities and items are. That would make it easier to digest for average viewers. The only problem is the observer. Sometimes there is a lot of flashy effects and explosions and it make the viewers clueless what is going on, which itself is already confusing for the regular player perspective.
and neither did Valve. they still think DOTA was the origins of MOBA genre. when it was actually countless of community made maps. fight of characters on different fan made maps.
@@GamingDualities well dotA 1 is the inspiration of all moba genre, may be because of that inspiration and popularity = "Origin" because the element of the game is almost the same? well who knows
I think the problem isn't whether it is impossible to watch or not as an esport, but the ability of the casters to effectively translate and hype the game for the viewers to watch. The importance of casters are crucial to the viewing experience as they make it easier to understamd games not only for experienced players, but for casual viewers, or even viewers that have never even heard of the game at all. Like for example, anything involved with Faker's greatest moments in league or Tenz's insane plays insane plays in Valorant, or even in games that are less related in genre to deadlock like: moment 37 from SF3 or the WOMBO COMBO moment from smash melee. Even if the moment was small like korean casters for league hyping up every creep score they get in laning phase. The Casters (and the community) were there to make it hype, and somehow, you also find yourself hyped within that moment and you may not even understand why it was hype, but it was hype nonetheless. So if the casters and community can bring the hype in these games, then they can certainly be watchable.
what tenZ says is true, it share the same problem with OW. Said that i think people is also more "used" to see game with more mechanics or more stuff going on. The thing that scare me more for the future of deadlock, its Valve advertisement, theyr known to not care much.
this guy says it's confusing to watch and he comes from valorant pro league, this thing when you can see 10 guys ulting on the same site and understanding nothing
I mean yeah mobas may be hard to understand to a completely outside viewer but if you are watching proscene/tournament you know the bare minimum to understand what is happening. I would say since deadlock has shooter components its even easier to get into/understand since you see oh he is shooting at the enemy, he threw something like a grenade etc which is very active and enjoyable just for aim factor
I've never played a MOBA before and Deadlock was infinitely more intuitive to understand compared to every other MOBA I got to see, that guy is talking nonsense
It's impossible to watch for people who don't know the game. Even me if I'm to watch it after over 100 games I need to be able to mouse over items because I can't immediately tell what 13 different items someone has. It's hard to even tell what level of a spell someone has. Like dynamo 1 does extra damage at 3 ap how is anyone even supposed to know. There's a reason why in game you can see EVERYTHING about every hero. It's impossible to track.
Of course it's a skill issue that's the problem. If you have to be skilled to even grasp the game that makes it a bad spectator esport. There's a reason counter strike is so popular to watch.
Dota and League are some of the hardest esports to watch for someone who don't know anything about the game, yet it's still two of the most succesfull esports game for more than a decade
I may be baised since i came from having experience in both dota and league but it is definitely an easy game to play and learn, though its skill ceiling is extremely high due to a lot of creativity you can have when approaching fights, i feel learning the game will be 10 times easier than learning league and like 5 times easier than learning dota, the understanding of mechanics and items will come as you play and i feel like it would come faster than games like league and dota, so calling something difficult to understand feels like a BS of an excuse also deadlock has pretty good skill based matchmaking at the moment, so newer players will play with newer players and slowly as they get better so will their mmr, i understand its chaotic but even in a team fight for example with everyone throwing out ults and skills it should feel way for harder to understand whats going for the person that is experiencing it but once you played enough you will know every that is going on so from a viewing perspective i think its fine. the games still really brand new and people are still learning things but the games been out for such a little time and its so fun and has a lot of people playing it already, just from a its fun perspective i believe it will be a huge e-sports, like people are saying that it may be hard since its a 6v6 in 4 different lanes but we have seen Battle royals being extremely popular esports when there are almost 100 players or more with a lot of fights taking place at the same time. ALSO, so many pros and content creators from many other esports titles have already said they would be making the move to deadlock. Tenz has had some bad takes but if he plays the game more he would probably have a different opinion, this video is a month old but Tenz has also questioned whether if he puts more time into it if he could be better and consider being a pro if a pro scene does happen.
If Valorant was so optimal then why is every single player complaining about it, not to mention how many players are leaving the game right now. I think he doesn't know what is he talking
He's making zero sense... The e-sport audience is based on players who like and know the game, they already understand it. Randoms dont just tune into to esports they watch what they know, follow and enjoy.
They already did a mini tournament, and it was fine watching it, I haven't played the game yet but I understand what is happening. Deadlock is still in Alpha and Tenz is already retiring? 🤣
Harder to understand? I hated all the mobas ive tried because of how confusing they are. This is the first one im addicted to because of how simple it is compared to others.
This guy is comedy! The fact that it has another lane makes it way more impactful and exciting. It isn’t hard to learn that’s just silly. Your average MOBA IS DULL AND BORING. I hated MOBAS before coming to deadlock I’m sure a lot of folks did. He’s got no idea what he’s talking about lol
Huh? No way this is hard to watch it’s more entertaining than league and dota. And Who cares about casuals? Esports are for PROS 😂😂 casuals can watch and learn as you go just like any other MOBA…
The only thing confusing about moba when you first play it is lane and items, other than that it is not that hard, when you played the game long enough. Comparison if talk about hard to learn game, we have: r6s is hardest competitive fps to learn. Dota is hardest moba to learn. Compare to those game listed above deadlock is easiest game ever, even fcking fortnite is harder than deadlock imo with their building mechanic. I think TenZ have only played Valorant and CS more than 10h if he yapping like that imo lol.
That opinion coming from a pro player that comes from a slow pace game is irrelevant and with no sense at all 😂 , in top of that he has never played a Moba I think
This guy had no idea of what he's talking about. Never let him cook
Facts
Exactly
As soon as he said "a step up from MOBAs" he lost all credibility. There is no way Deadlock is a step up from Dota.
@@landocommando7 the kid is clueless, I saw him playing DL and he was like a baby in his 1st steps 🤣
@@AVALONXIX i can vouch for this
"it's hard to watch"
-> valorant pro player
-> valorant esport be like: lets use 10 ults at the same time, kill everyone, no one understands shit, not even the casters, game ends
Every game is hard to watch for esports, but people who watch esports aren’t casual players, they usually have a good understanding watching games
Except league
@@Finland-od7gbexcept league?😂 MOBAs have it worse. I think good esports games with great viewing experience for casuals or total newcomers or even non gamers are shooting game and fighting games. These are super easy to see what’s happening and be drawn in by good commentary and have a good time without needing to know the game ins and out or deep knowledge of the meta.
Gotta disagree. Deadlock is significantly easier to watch than overwatch or a moba like dota or league (cant compare to valorant cause ive never watched that garbage lmao).
Mainly due to the coloring, the environment is bland while effects are vibrant which reduces visual clutter and makes it easier to see what is going on
No way LOL??? mobas are so hard to understand tf
@ITZBROKENhotDOG12 incorrect
Also the point is less about how intelligent you are at understanding the game and more about how easy it is to tell whats going on
Hard to tell whats going on spectating in ow even if you are a good player who knows everything about the game just due to the visual clutter
@@ITZBROKENhotDOG12how tf is a moba hard to understand man? You build your character and fight your character and keep an eye on spawn timers it’s that simple coordinate with your team on those times to see which OBJ you are going for and try to win. Very simple games people just make them harder than they have to be
it's a common misconception that any game that is remotely complex will be bad for spectating, this is a take held by mainly CS and valo players, even though LOL and Dota are the two biggest esports in the world, with both of them being worse to spectate than Deadlock
Its because of the third person aspect of it. In other mobas, you can see what 2 or more people are doing at the same time because of the top down nature of it.
@@ljjebi in fact I think that since it is third person, spectators are able to more easily relate to each player. A top down spectator cam can be easily provided as well
@@kerch00there is free camera mode when spectating where you can watch in birds eye view
@@weeds1336 makes sense, i think you can watch the fortnite tourneys from birds eye too, no?
league is only a big esport cause it has a MASSIVE player base. Now I don't have the stats but I get the feeling that only a very small % of league players have any interest in the esport but since the playerbase is so huge it amounts to a lot of viewers. CS has a much smaller playerbase than league but still has comparable views to league because the average player is more likely to watch the esports. I'd say the reason for that is that CS is inherently a more competetive game. It's very hard to play cs casually, it's almost always sweaty. League offers you many ways to play casually and it's a more chill environment to play in.
if the argument only because "its hard to watch, confusing for viewers" i just dont buy it. League of Legends viewership its 6.4 million (All-time Peak Viewers) and it is a MOBA game, Mobile Legends: Bang Bang (its mobile game btw) viewership 5.1 million All-time Peak Viewers and it is a MOBA game... so clearly moba isnt the problem gamer would know what happened.. the only problem that i can think of is just the camera perspective.. in MOBA you have "bird view perspective"... i just dont know how they would approach this game for viewers with the camera view perspective.. and for the "casual wont understand" i dont know who said it but "you dont build live service game base on casual" and i agreed with that statement because casual would just leave.. its for the people who actually love the game or you may say "hardcore fans", why do you think game like CS still have huge amount of player after 20 years? or maybe game like LoL, WoW, or any other live service game that already established almost 10+ years? its because the "hardcore fans" not because some "casual fans".
They could do what most fps esports do, where they swap between the viewpoint the players see, and then a birds eye perspective.
league is top down, not hard to spectate at all
Exactly I think watching someone get clapped is entertaining!
I think quick replay and caster explaining what happened previously is a way to solve this during the match. Dota 2 also do this IIRC.
It's a MOBA so only some parts are highlight worthy.
@@oozy1333 yeah not sure why people are making these comparisons. Dota & League are both top down and map movements take significantly longer than in Deadlock. Ganking another lane takes longer. Movement spells like Blink and Flash are like an inch or two on the screen.
But what I like about Deadlock is how straight forward some of the abilities and items are. That would make it easier to digest for average viewers.
The only problem is the observer. Sometimes there is a lot of flashy effects and explosions and it make the viewers clueless what is going on, which itself is already confusing for the regular player perspective.
I guess tenz never played any MOBA games before in his entire life.
Trueeee
believe he was master in league
and neither did Valve. they still think DOTA was the origins of MOBA genre. when it was actually countless of community made maps. fight of characters on different fan made maps.
@@GamingDualities well dotA 1 is the inspiration of all moba genre, may be because of that inspiration and popularity = "Origin" because the element of the game is almost the same? well who knows
I think the problem isn't whether it is impossible to watch or not as an esport, but the ability of the casters to effectively translate and hype the game for the viewers to watch. The importance of casters are crucial to the viewing experience as they make it easier to understamd games not only for experienced players, but for casual viewers, or even viewers that have never even heard of the game at all. Like for example, anything involved with Faker's greatest moments in league or Tenz's insane plays insane plays in Valorant, or even in games that are less related in genre to deadlock like: moment 37 from SF3 or the WOMBO COMBO moment from smash melee. Even if the moment was small like korean casters for league hyping up every creep score they get in laning phase. The Casters (and the community) were there to make it hype, and somehow, you also find yourself hyped within that moment and you may not even understand why it was hype, but it was hype nonetheless. So if the casters and community can bring the hype in these games, then they can certainly be watchable.
what tenZ says is true, it share the same problem with OW. Said that i think people is also more "used" to see game with more mechanics or more stuff going on. The thing that scare me more for the future of deadlock, its Valve advertisement, theyr known to not care much.
This game seems way easier to follow than league
Glue inhaler take
Tbh, if this game doesn't become an Esport heavy game I'm happy for it. Can't stand people sweating as if their life depends on it every single game.
4:36 is just too embarrassing for that Abrams
I’m Ngl tenz just be yappin 😭😭
this guy says it's confusing to watch and he comes from valorant pro league, this thing when you can see 10 guys ulting on the same site and understanding nothing
6:15 I called it when i said "deadlock best moments"
I mean yeah mobas may be hard to understand to a completely outside viewer but if you are watching proscene/tournament you know the bare minimum to understand what is happening. I would say since deadlock has shooter components its even easier to get into/understand since you see oh he is shooting at the enemy, he threw something like a grenade etc which is very active and enjoyable just for aim factor
I think deadlock is rather easy to understand. Hard to watch for me is WoW pvp, fun but super hard to fully grasp what is happening haha
the yapper
bro I love your videos and the effort you put into them, but please remove that image in the top right. Genuinely scares me
every single game is "confusing" for majority of new players /watchers lol ....
I've never played a MOBA before and Deadlock was infinitely more intuitive to understand compared to every other MOBA I got to see, that guy is talking nonsense
It's impossible to watch for people who don't know the game. Even me if I'm to watch it after over 100 games I need to be able to mouse over items because I can't immediately tell what 13 different items someone has. It's hard to even tell what level of a spell someone has. Like dynamo 1 does extra damage at 3 ap how is anyone even supposed to know. There's a reason why in game you can see EVERYTHING about every hero. It's impossible to track.
Skill issue
Skill issue
dota streams in twitch have a widget you can hover to check out things, heroes, skills, items hopefully they have that for esports
Of course it's a skill issue that's the problem. If you have to be skilled to even grasp the game that makes it a bad spectator esport. There's a reason counter strike is so popular to watch.
Dota and League are some of the hardest esports to watch for someone who don't know anything about the game, yet it's still two of the most succesfull esports game for more than a decade
I may be baised since i came from having experience in both dota and league but it is definitely an easy game to play and learn, though its skill ceiling is extremely high due to a lot of creativity you can have when approaching fights, i feel learning the game will be 10 times easier than learning league and like 5 times easier than learning dota, the understanding of mechanics and items will come as you play and i feel like it would come faster than games like league and dota, so calling something difficult to understand feels like a BS of an excuse also deadlock has pretty good skill based matchmaking at the moment, so newer players will play with newer players and slowly as they get better so will their mmr, i understand its chaotic but even in a team fight for example with everyone throwing out ults and skills it should feel way for harder to understand whats going for the person that is experiencing it but once you played enough you will know every that is going on so from a viewing perspective i think its fine. the games still really brand new and people are still learning things but the games been out for such a little time and its so fun and has a lot of people playing it already, just from a its fun perspective i believe it will be a huge e-sports, like people are saying that it may be hard since its a 6v6 in 4 different lanes but we have seen Battle royals being extremely popular esports when there are almost 100 players or more with a lot of fights taking place at the same time.
ALSO, so many pros and content creators from many other esports titles have already said they would be making the move to deadlock. Tenz has had some bad takes but if he plays the game more he would probably have a different opinion, this video is a month old but Tenz has also questioned whether if he puts more time into it if he could be better and consider being a pro if a pro scene does happen.
DOTA 2 is incomprehensible, so I think Deadlock is safe
Hopefully it's not an Esport, and instead is a video game.
If Valorant was so optimal then why is every single player complaining about it, not to mention how many players are leaving the game right now. I think he doesn't know what is he talking
Does this man know league of legends exist
He's making zero sense... The e-sport audience is based on players who like and know the game, they already understand it. Randoms dont just tune into to esports they watch what they know, follow and enjoy.
They already did a mini tournament, and it was fine watching it, I haven't played the game yet but I understand what is happening.
Deadlock is still in Alpha and Tenz is already retiring? 🤣
It’s too hard to watch, I can’t aim challenge everything
Alweys wrong, How can he be so wrong?
Harder to understand? I hated all the mobas ive tried because of how confusing they are. This is the first one im addicted to because of how simple it is compared to others.
As opposed to watching fucking half circles of smokes on the entire map? biased af lol
confusing to watch? Watching Valorant as a non valorant player is one of the dumbest things ever. I do agree though, it should be 5v5, not 6v6
This guy is comedy! The fact that it has another lane makes it way more impactful and exciting. It isn’t hard to learn that’s just silly. Your average MOBA IS DULL AND BORING. I hated MOBAS before coming to deadlock I’m sure a lot of folks did. He’s got no idea what he’s talking about lol
Yeah deadlock will not be huge esport, But that is okay.
bro does not know dota hav very big esports
Classic TenZ L take hahahaha this guy kept bitching about valorant now hes gonna yap about deadlock when he's clearly new to mobas
Huh? No way this is hard to watch it’s more entertaining than league and dota. And Who cares about casuals? Esports are for PROS 😂😂 casuals can watch and learn as you go just like any other MOBA…
My guy says it’s hard to watch for casual when he played val as a pro XD that’s an L take
The only thing confusing about moba when you first play it is lane and items, other than that it is not that hard, when you played the game long enough.
Comparison if talk about hard to learn game,
we have:
r6s is hardest competitive fps to learn.
Dota is hardest moba to learn.
Compare to those game listed above deadlock is easiest game ever, even fcking fortnite is harder than deadlock imo with their building mechanic.
I think TenZ have only played Valorant and CS more than 10h if he yapping like that imo lol.
That opinion coming from a pro player that comes from a slow pace game is irrelevant and with no sense at all 😂 , in top of that he has never played a Moba I think
valorant player doesn't know what he is talking about
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