Good comparison, a much more straight forward explanation and video than I've seen elsewhere. I only shoot ISSF .177 at 25 yards target shooting, mainly because the effect of the wind on group size is a lot less at that distance, for hunting there's virtually no requirement for hold over out to 30 yards zero because the zero is the same at 15 yards & 30 yards, and the differences at 10, 20, 25, and 30 yards, is at worst half an inch low at 35 yards. However, the wind is always an issue, but as long as your group is good enough for the quarry, then its acceptable, although the number of opportunities to shoot is dependent on the weather. If you're hunting with .22 then its a different kettle of fish, you have more energy delivered due to the mass, but you need a range finder and be accurate on hold over. The compromise I have is I run .177 4.52 JSB Monster, which has a better ballistic coefficient and delivers almost the same energy at the target. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike .22, but I think I'd be happier using FAC Air .22 in terms of muzzle energy, but as I have .22lr I don't really need the FAC Air. .22lr I shoot ISSF at 25 yards, 50 metres, and 100 yards, and WBSF 100 yards for .22lr subsonic 1073fps is a bit of a challenge in the wind, so far the best five shot group I've managed in competition is 0.661 of an inch, which isn't the best In fact, I'm experiencing the same issue at WBSF 600 and 1000 yards, the electronic targets only detect impact of supersonic rounds, which is fine for 168 grain .308 at 600, but sketchy at 1000, as the bullet starts to get transonic, and that introduces a wider group size & may not detect impacts. So I'm having to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor rifle for 1000 yards, due to a better ballistic coefficient. Downside is the barrel wear, 6.5 target barrels last 2500 rounds, .308 barrels last upwards of 8000 rounds.
I can say...with our restricted 6 fp of energy here in Germany (to buy it from 18years of age) the .177 is far better in case of drop and accuracy on distances of 25+meters than the .22 - so you can say the less the energy of an airgun the better the .177 is for sure! If I would buy an FAC air rifle I would go for the .22!
I shoot .177 exclusively because you get better ballistics in sub-12, it's just way more accurate. I use 8.44gn JSBs for target shooting with springers and 10.34gn Bisley mags (a great pellet for any Weihrauch barrel) for hunting with my HW100, nearly as much clout as a light .22 pellet but way less hold-over at 35~40m, which is my maximum pesting range. I am looking for a .22 currently for short-range ratting, maybe even a .25, because I'm sick of pass-throughs in the barns at 20m. Great vid buddy, enjoyed it. You obviously put a lot of good thought into it and presented your ideas really well. Subbed.
@davidpaylor5666 cheers mate. I'm. 22 through and through. My rifle will sub inch group at 75m. I have a .177 that will also, but only of there's not a gnat farting within 50yards of it. Thanks for the sub!!!
@@Airgunmarksmanofficial It's all personal preference at the end of the day. I can group at sub one inch with my .177 at 75m too, I just don't shoot live quarry at more than 40m with ANY sub-12.
What a cheek(s)! 8-) I've lately been using 11.9 grain .22 RWS 'Hobbys' in my Air Arms S200. Never owned a .177, other guns, a Weihrauch HW35 and Walther LGV Pro being 22s as well. 22s are easier to load especially in the cold and the 'Hobbys' have a flat enough trajectory and are very accurate for no ranging worries between 10 and 25 yds when ratting. Being flat headed wadcutters too, they don't half land with a smack, dumping energy like it's an ex mother-in-law. (Subscribed, cos I enjoyed everything about your cheeky presentation )
Haha thanks for the sub mate! Yeah wadcutters are good for very short ranges, absolute dogsh!t a bit further out. I'm always in the pursuit of accuracy at range, so ballistic coefficiency is always a factor in my choice of pellet. Thanks for the comment mate!
Phil you said that after hours of shooting your eye hearts . I had the same mate but now I shoot with both eyes open now I don't get any problems and more accurate. That's also my friend how a proper marks man shoots thank me later lol
I tend to go more for 177 as I like the challenge of the wind plus the distance effects when paper punching. I can only go out to 60 ish yards on the ranges in my area though. Interesting to see the two calibres compared side be side.
Great vid, I prefer .22 for the reason you said - less affected by wind. Could you do a similar vid at distances shorter than the rifles sighting e.g. 5,10,15 & 20 to show how far the pellets rise above?
@@AsbestosAssessment hello mate, ahhh nice..... We are in Lincolnshire, about 15mins from Lincoln, in Bardney. We are open Saturday and Sunday 10am-4pm, and Wednesday evenings 4pm til late.
@markwilliams5553 Cheers mate!!! well, we could...... but nobody uses them, so there wouldn't be much point really ;-) hahaha I would guess that the impacts would be similar with the same weight, and the .22 would drop a little more, with the larger surface area, due to wind resistance. Thanks for the comment mate!
That's a good point. The 13.43 in .177 would have a much higher BC which means much flatter trajectory and much less cross section to be pushed by the wind. The issue is that it takes more pressure to push the heavier .177. But if your capped under 12 FPE I'm not sure that would matter if you want a pellet that would hold it's energy at farther distances.
I have 3 rifles soon to be 4 and all will be .22 for one reason only stopping power and transferance of that power to prey/target. Higher power rifles shooting over longer distances will probably benefit from using different size pellets and what your actual target is. Each to their own and what works for the individual, me it's hitting power, 7.62 V 5.56 do i need say any more.
I just subscribed so I can say..... Stoopid question. If you own a pcp, live miles from a dive shop and can not afford a decent compressor you will need a hand pump. I have 2 versions of the same gun, the .177 does 55-60% of the shots per charge compared to the .22. THAT's a lot of extra pumping. .25 is a volley gun over 30m in sub 12. Good luck with the channel
@vf19blue we were going to shoot through the chronograph at each distance, but we were running out of light on the day and only had an hour spare to film, so we just cracked on without the faff. If you download the Chairgun ballistics app, you can input your pellets details and it will give you a graph showing everything. If I remember correctly, the .22 was holding nearly 1 ftlb more energy than the .177 at 75m...... I don't remember exact figures though. I'll go into more depth on another video. Thanks for the feedback buddy and thanks for watching!
on you tube you might be able to find an old vid by a woman shooter(kubbly cat)who done that experiment the 22 held far more of its power the further you got from the end of the barrel than the 177
it would be intresting in .20 best of both words i grew up using .177 have old air rifles and new in 177 and aload in .20 one in .22 spingers and pcp like fx king top end airrifles in my apinion .20 slugs13.43g or pellet 10.34g all shoot well cant beet them same fx dont do .20 cal wish they would wake up
@mickphilp9 .20 is a pointless calibre. You can get .22s down at 13gr and you can get .177 upto 13gr...... Most manufacturers don't waste thier time making .20 because there isn't a call for it...... most gun manufacturers don't bother with .20 for the same reason. There's only a small handful of .20 pellets on the market, which is no good if you are after true accuracy, as there's not enough sizes shapes and weights to test.
@Airgunmarksmanofficial yeah I get ya mate I find the 8.4s quite below average these days especially with the heavier options available in qys and biz mags if youve not already tried them qys 9.56 grains are really good pellet in both domed and streamlined
@rolexr 100% buddy same with the accuracy vid that was done not long ago in windy conditions...outcome is alwasy going to be the same if you go to it with a bias attitude but if you have the chance to acctually try the same rifle in different calibres but with the more average/optimal pellet to use you'd see a fairer conclusion for example.. I get that he's testing jsb 8.4 but I litterally don't know any .177 users that use jsb 8.44 majority of us use heavys these days qys 9.56 h&n 9.57 or jsb 10.34 biz mags 10.65 qys 13 grain etc etc and so on think the only time I'd even look at using 8.4 pellets would be below 20m in an indoor range
.20 call all day,in sub 12 and in a different leage again when you go fac 20 cal.better than both other calls put together and dont get me started on the stupid sub 12 25 call, pathetic.
.20 cal is fine in theory...... that is all. With bugger all choice for pellet selection, you'll never be as accurate as you should be. Also, it's pointless because there's more 13-14g .22 pellets and more 13gr .177 pellets out there than your .20 cal, bridging the gap... hence why no manufacturers waste their time with that calibre. Let alone people choosing different pellet sizes down to 0•05 mm nowadays. Best cal in fac??? That's utter crap. How does your 13gr pellet do against a .35 cal slug at 250m? I'll tell you.... it's laid in the grass, barely penetrating the dirt at about 130m, and 5m off course after running out of velocity and being sent off by the wind, and the .35cal slug flies straight and gets 2" groups at 250m. I'm all for opinions, we are all allowed to have them but your statement above is just straight up wrong mate.
Good comparison, a much more straight forward explanation and video than I've seen elsewhere.
I only shoot ISSF .177 at 25 yards target shooting, mainly because the effect of the wind on group size is a lot less at that distance, for hunting there's virtually no requirement for hold over out to 30 yards zero because the zero is the same at 15 yards & 30 yards, and the differences at 10, 20, 25, and 30 yards, is at worst half an inch low at 35 yards. However, the wind is always an issue, but as long as your group is good enough for the quarry, then its acceptable, although the number of opportunities to shoot is dependent on the weather.
If you're hunting with .22 then its a different kettle of fish, you have more energy delivered due to the mass, but you need a range finder and be accurate on hold over.
The compromise I have is I run .177 4.52 JSB Monster, which has a better ballistic coefficient and delivers almost the same energy at the target.
Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike .22, but I think I'd be happier using FAC Air .22 in terms of muzzle energy, but as I have .22lr I don't really need the FAC Air.
.22lr I shoot ISSF at 25 yards, 50 metres, and 100 yards, and WBSF 100 yards for .22lr subsonic 1073fps is a bit of a challenge in the wind, so far the best five shot group I've managed in competition is 0.661 of an inch, which isn't the best
In fact, I'm experiencing the same issue at WBSF 600 and 1000 yards, the electronic targets only detect impact of supersonic rounds, which is fine for 168 grain .308 at 600, but sketchy at 1000, as the bullet starts to get transonic, and that introduces a wider group size & may not detect impacts.
So I'm having to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor rifle for 1000 yards, due to a better ballistic coefficient. Downside is the barrel wear, 6.5 target barrels last 2500 rounds, .308 barrels last upwards of 8000 rounds.
It’s about knowing your gun/pellet combination then working with it.
I can say...with our restricted 6 fp of energy here in Germany (to buy it from 18years of age) the .177 is far better in case of drop and accuracy on distances of 25+meters
than the .22 - so you can say the less the energy of an airgun the better the .177 is for sure! If I would buy an FAC air rifle I would go for the .22!
I shoot .177 exclusively because you get better ballistics in sub-12, it's just way more accurate. I use 8.44gn JSBs for target shooting with springers and 10.34gn Bisley mags (a great pellet for any Weihrauch barrel) for hunting with my HW100, nearly as much clout as a light .22 pellet but way less hold-over at 35~40m, which is my maximum pesting range. I am looking for a .22 currently for short-range ratting, maybe even a .25, because I'm sick of pass-throughs in the barns at 20m.
Great vid buddy, enjoyed it. You obviously put a lot of good thought into it and presented your ideas really well. Subbed.
@davidpaylor5666 cheers mate.
I'm. 22 through and through.
My rifle will sub inch group at 75m.
I have a .177 that will also, but only of there's not a gnat farting within 50yards of it.
Thanks for the sub!!!
@@Airgunmarksmanofficial It's all personal preference at the end of the day.
I can group at sub one inch with my .177 at 75m too, I just don't shoot live quarry at more than 40m with ANY sub-12.
What a cheek(s)! 8-) I've lately been using 11.9 grain .22 RWS 'Hobbys' in my Air Arms S200. Never owned a .177, other guns, a Weihrauch HW35 and Walther LGV Pro being 22s as well. 22s are easier to load especially in the cold and the 'Hobbys' have a flat enough trajectory and are very accurate for no ranging worries between 10 and 25 yds when ratting. Being flat headed wadcutters too, they don't half land with a smack, dumping energy like it's an ex mother-in-law. (Subscribed, cos I enjoyed everything about your cheeky presentation )
Haha thanks for the sub mate!
Yeah wadcutters are good for very short ranges, absolute dogsh!t a bit further out.
I'm always in the pursuit of accuracy at range, so ballistic coefficiency is always a factor in my choice of pellet.
Thanks for the comment mate!
Phil you said that after hours of shooting your eye hearts . I had the same mate but now I shoot with both eyes open now I don't get any problems and more accurate. That's also my friend how a proper marks man shoots thank me later lol
I tend to go more for 177 as I like the challenge of the wind plus the distance effects when paper punching. I can only go out to 60 ish yards on the ranges in my area though. Interesting to see the two calibres compared side be side.
cracking vid mate
Great vid, I prefer .22 for the reason you said - less affected by wind. Could you do a similar vid at distances shorter than the rifles sighting e.g. 5,10,15 & 20 to show how far the pellets rise above?
@andyc2744 yep, that's another day mate!
Thanks for the comment
Good video interesting stuff 👍
Thanks mate!
.25 for close range vermin control fantastic stopping power out to 25 yards.
Cracking comparison. I shoot a HW100 .177 and a FX King .22. I was going to do the same. Where is your range and when are you open?
@@AsbestosAssessment hello mate, ahhh nice.....
We are in Lincolnshire, about 15mins from Lincoln, in Bardney.
We are open Saturday and Sunday 10am-4pm, and Wednesday evenings 4pm til late.
@@Airgunmarksmanofficial How do I contact you in private?
@AsbestosAssessment add us on Facebook mate, Airgun Marksman club and Range.
excellent video how about you take a jsb 13.43 in both calibres and see what happens
@markwilliams5553
Cheers mate!!!
well, we could...... but nobody uses them, so there wouldn't be much point really ;-) hahaha
I would guess that the impacts would be similar with the same weight, and the .22 would drop a little more, with the larger surface area, due to wind resistance.
Thanks for the comment mate!
That's a good point. The 13.43 in .177 would have a much higher BC which means much flatter trajectory and much less cross section to be pushed by the wind. The issue is that it takes more pressure to push the heavier .177. But if your capped under 12 FPE I'm not sure that would matter if you want a pellet that would hold it's energy at farther distances.
Interesting idea,though a .177 at that weight would probably have to be a slug design.
Would have bean nice to have had the .20 as well as not talked about verry often.
I have 3 rifles soon to be 4 and all will be .22 for one reason only stopping power and transferance of that power to prey/target. Higher power rifles shooting over longer distances will probably benefit from using different size pellets and what your actual target is. Each to their own and what works for the individual, me it's hitting power, 7.62 V 5.56 do i need say any more.
Spot on mate.
I just subscribed so I can say..... Stoopid question. If you own a pcp, live miles from a dive shop and can not afford a decent compressor you will need a hand pump. I have 2 versions of the same gun, the .177 does 55-60% of the shots per charge compared to the .22. THAT's a lot of extra pumping.
.25 is a volley gun over 30m in sub 12. Good luck with the channel
Haha yep.... .22 is much more air efficient than a .177.
Thanks for the comment mate!!
Nice work gents!
Would it be possible to add the ft/lb for each distance too?
@vf19blue we were going to shoot through the chronograph at each distance, but we were running out of light on the day and only had an hour spare to film, so we just cracked on without the faff.
If you download the Chairgun ballistics app, you can input your pellets details and it will give you a graph showing everything.
If I remember correctly, the .22 was holding nearly 1 ftlb more energy than the .177 at 75m......
I don't remember exact figures though.
I'll go into more depth on another video.
Thanks for the feedback buddy and thanks for watching!
Thanks mate, will do
on you tube you might be able to find an old vid by a woman shooter(kubbly cat)who done that experiment the 22 held far more of its power the further you got from the end of the barrel than the 177
it would be intresting in .20 best of both words i grew up using .177 have old air rifles and new in 177 and aload in .20 one in .22 spingers and pcp like fx king top end airrifles in my apinion .20 slugs13.43g or pellet 10.34g all shoot well cant beet them same fx dont do .20 cal wish they would wake up
@mickphilp9 .20 is a pointless calibre.
You can get .22s down at 13gr and you can get .177 upto 13gr......
Most manufacturers don't waste thier time making .20 because there isn't a call for it...... most gun manufacturers don't bother with .20 for the same reason.
There's only a small handful of .20 pellets on the market, which is no good if you are after true accuracy, as there's not enough sizes shapes and weights to test.
What weight was the 177 pellet buddy
8.44 mate, so a typical medium weight pellet.
@Airgunmarksmanofficial yeah I get ya mate I find the 8.4s quite below average these days especially with the heavier options available in qys and biz mags if youve not already tried them qys 9.56 grains are really good pellet in both domed and streamlined
@silverback710 , yeah.... I stock them all at the range mate.
@@silverback710 ...that´s right mate - for example the JSB Heavy and the JSB HADES with 10.34 grain are awesome and not too light!!!
@rolexr 100% buddy same with the accuracy vid that was done not long ago in windy conditions...outcome is alwasy going to be the same if you go to it with a bias attitude but if you have the chance to acctually try the same rifle in different calibres but with the more average/optimal pellet to use you'd see a fairer conclusion for example..
I get that he's testing jsb 8.4 but I litterally don't know any .177 users that use jsb 8.44 majority of us use heavys these days qys 9.56 h&n 9.57 or jsb 10.34 biz mags 10.65 qys 13 grain etc etc and so on think the only time I'd even look at using 8.4 pellets would be below 20m in an indoor range
.20 call all day,in sub 12 and in a different leage again when you go fac 20 cal.better than both other calls put together and dont get me started on the stupid sub 12 25 call, pathetic.
.20 cal is fine in theory...... that is all.
With bugger all choice for pellet selection, you'll never be as accurate as you should be.
Also, it's pointless because there's more 13-14g .22 pellets and more 13gr .177 pellets out there than your .20 cal, bridging the gap... hence why no manufacturers waste their time with that calibre.
Let alone people choosing different pellet sizes down to 0•05 mm nowadays.
Best cal in fac??? That's utter crap.
How does your 13gr pellet do against a .35 cal slug at 250m?
I'll tell you.... it's laid in the grass, barely penetrating the dirt at about 130m, and 5m off course after running out of velocity and being sent off by the wind, and the .35cal slug flies straight and gets 2" groups at 250m.
I'm all for opinions, we are all allowed to have them but your statement above is just straight up wrong mate.