You need to learn Java to pay for your Rust habit lol! If you are lucky you may get to write Go instead of Java. If you are unlucky you will be writing Node microservices.
@@letsgetrusty sadly at the moment there's no rust job in my region, I don't mind that much because I love rust and I want to continue using it for my own project but would be even better if I can find a job that let me use my favorite language
I’ve been using both RustRover, and VSCode, and I would say that if you include the right extensions, they’re practically the same on language features. One thing that VSCode really does way better is the Remoting over container/SSH/WSL, it just works flawlessly with everything including Rust projects
@@lukeskywalker7029 I found that a lot of times it would fail to show compiler errors correctly, show errors that weren’t actually there, fail to find the definition of a symbol, etc. I mean, sure, the bugs were likely located in the extensions responsible for those features, rather than VS Code itself, but what does it matter when I can use a JetBrains IDE which “just works”, while VS Code oftentimes doesn’t work too well (for certain languages/frameworks).
@@wrong1029I’m not too sure because I’m not familiar with VSCode but the thing with Jetbrains is they index the entirety of your codebase and file structures including names of files, functions, variables, and even string paths to files and make trees with the underlying data, so that when you refactor anything including moving a file, all the variables, strings and functions and imports all update to the new path. And so on. They get really language specific, like when you use Golang changing a mod name will change every call to the modules as well as all the imports to the new name.
I do not doubt that RR is a good IDE. But I feel like the thing that would be useful for most devs is not in any way rust specific. It's that you get your IDE pre-configured. I've just checked and rust-analyzer has the exact same snippets (tmod, tfn, ...). And that's because rust-analyzer is an impressive tool which is available from the rust devs themselves. So again... RR looks nice. But the thing actually "setting it apart" is having the http client and crate integration out of the box.
The thing setting it apart is JetBrains. I've been using JB IDEs for years and it would be a considerable productivity hit to move to something else. With RustRover, we have even more competition in the Rust IDE space, which should make all tools better
I know that Rust and C and C++ people think that debugger is this ugly thing that is hard to use and mostly useless... But if they get it right in RR, it will be a game changer for Rust. If they get 50% of what JetBrains offer for Java or C# in this regard, you would be blown away. Also, the IDE can do SO MUCH MORE. It's one of the best DB tools on the market already - I don't use PgAdmin or MSSQLS anymore, it's Rider (IDE for C#). It can recognize the SQL in your code, and when you select the schema, type check it for you. Display sample rows or columns. It remembers your context per git branch - opened docs, bookmarks etc Of course, you probably can get all of this in VS code or even Nvim, but with the IDE you get it out of the box. I've been using Rider for the last 4 years, I am still discovering features - mostly new places where I can just start typing to filter the options
It's always Good to have more options After all, these are just tools. So use whatever suits you Most of the people will still be using VSCode or *Vim as these are free and OSS + battle tested. But also having a somewhat strong competitor like JB is a bonus. It'll for sure push the development of rust-analyzer
I'm so gutted for Vim. . . I think over time NeoVim will take over for that community seeing as Bram was so dedicated to it's development. There's already been talk of only having security support for Vim.
In what sense is VS Code limited in refactoring and debugging? I couldn't experience this within my little Rust projects. The work is essentially done by the Rust plugins which are pretty great.
@@StefaNoneD vscode is functional enough, but as soon as you want to do something like or more than stepping through the program with a debugger then it expects you to write a full debugging setup per project, and its very prone to breaking in my experience of using it for the last year or so. I’m using RustRover atm., and even though the IDE itself isnt stable yet, the rust functionality is on point and just works. If you’ve used a JetBrains IDE you know why people buy them, they really are better than the alternative unless you’re making a neovim setup from scratch or use a custom visual studio setup for work that only works with another editor.
@@mikkelens If you would talk about C++, I could follow, because C++ and VS Code is PITA. I use CLion for C++. But altough CLion is better for C++, for me it's still PITA, because refactoring is error prone and slow, and - for some reasons - debugging is very slow (there is a very old ticket for that) and there are many regressions on version updates.
@@StefaNoneD TBF, there's probably no full featured IDE that can handle C++ correctly because the entire ecosystem is fragmented (5+ mainsteam build systems) and the language is basically a rube goldberg machine. Even very stable tools like clang-format have issues dealing with its syntax.
I would really use either NeoVIM or Helix .. but none of the other IDEs mentioned in the video .. they are good .. Specially RR, but none compares to VIM productivity once fully configured
Completely agree, vim is ultimate especially. All these IDE features shown in the video can be integrated with vim/nvim by anybody with some knowledge around this. Plus you only have the features you need and it's not proprietary rubbish and doesn't bloat your system
I'm coming at this the other way around, as a daily user of JetBrains products, the announcement of the RustRover preview has made me try out Rust for the first time.
I would like to see a community driven development continuation of the IntelliJ Plugin - as I will not pay for RR as long as I am just learning the language and mostly developing something small for fun, for learning or open source programs.
@@wumwum42Probably not as Rust is far less popular than Python. By providing a community edition for Pycharm JetBrains gets new programmers who usually start with Python used to their great products straight away and more likely to continue using them
Tested the RR and Clion+newest plugin, now it has the ability to give semantic completion and code navigation inside macro_rules while rust-analyzer can't. I thought this is a big step forward and the reason why they are pushing a new Rust IDE
Who tf cares about the performance of my ide. I have plenty of ram and it taking seven cpu cycles more to render the font is not the reason my code doesn’t work.
Thanks for the video. I generally love the JetBrain IDEs. However the current build of Rust Rover (still in early access) is almost unusably unstable. 20s freezes, out-of-memory errors, and slow analysis are common. It will need major bug fixing before it is usable for me.
I'm very surprised about them bot being sure if they want to keep a rustrover plugin in clion. Rust is a low level system programming language and ffi with C and C++ is an important feature. Separating the IDEs needed into two seems like a bad move.
The main reason I transferred from vscode to JetBrain product is the indexing. Performance wise I think JetBrain is a lot worse but indexing can help me navigate through large code base a lot easier.
My only problem is there is no difference between RustRover and the current Rust plugin implementation as a CLion plugin. Was a full fledged IDE necessary?
I mean obviously that plugin is not going to get any more improvements, and they're only going to improve RustRover. I could be mistaken, but I think they already did this with Go. I can see people talk about how there used to be a CLion plugin for Go years ago, but I can't find it anymore now that JetBrains has the GoLand IDE.
@@jolynele2587I felt that way with RubyMine tbh. Also, Fleet is still a thing, right? I guess It aint a concern to me, I don’t use jetbrains stuff lol.
@@twenty-fifth420 fleet is available non commercially. i haven't used fleet and don't plan to, but a vscode alternative not written in electron is always welcome
Since rust is living and has regular updates I think we should expect to pay someone to put in the work to keep our IDEs in sync with all the cool stuff rolling out. As long as they are charging less than my streaming service does I am more than happy to pay. How many times have I tried to use a new Rust feature only to find it "confused" my current IDE, my hope is that updates will happen faster on a payed product but only time will tell...
In my experience JetBrains IDEs are very quick to add support for new language features even before they're officially released. E.g. they added support for GoLang generics when they were still a preview feature.
i have used this IDE and i must say its pretty amazing, i was using sublime for rust before but it was not that good, rustrover is good but still its a bit buggy and has glitches
Do you think RustRover will be free to academic use like the other JetBrains' IDEs? Im member of my university's robotics team and we've recently migrated our codebase to Rust, and we consider using RustRover, but we have no means to pay it at the moment.
In terms of SSH Connection - i use Vscode there is nothing better. In terms of having a solid editing experience - I prefer Jetbrains But I use nvim if I can
The problem with vscode is that they don't support cargo features. The default features are enabled for the project by default and you can switch them in the rust configs but you can only switch it for the complete workspace, not for a crate inside a workspace. Rustrover can enable and disable features in your cargo.toml file for each crate individual. Vscode is unusable for some of my bigger projects where i work with many different features. I hope they will fix this issue. But if you working on a project without internal features then vscode is as good as rust rover.
@@avinashthakur80 Yes thats right, it is the extension. Are they working on it to get that cargo support with feature switch for packages inside a workspace? That would be great.
If the entire community is behind rust-analyzer, this will split the community, Jetbrains IDEs tend to ignore standards, introduce their own tooling that prevents collboration.
JetBrains has always done their own thing with their own tooling and it's fantastic. I don't remember any time in the past they've "split the community" by doing their own thing, there'll still be a huge backing for rust-analyzer especially given this will eventually be a paid product.
@@RyanBreaker nothing they realy do is fantastic sub par at best there is literally no reason to pay for their product apart from branding and marketing you just pay for stuff that you can have for free
@@NonsensGamingI've used JetBrains for pretty much my entire career and it provides for me great value out of the box. The refactoring, git, database, and other tools are fantastic compared to getting the same functionality out of VS Code. I say this as a proud nvim user on the side, too.
OSS does not mean paid products do not have their value. YOU are a developer, you can spend that money in a weekend doing stupid stuff, or invest it for a year to have a professional tool. Don't be cheap.
I have all sorts of non language specific customizations in my editor, it would take a lot of convincing to get me to switch to a different editor just for one particular language.
I'm on the other side, I just use the correct Jetbrains IDE for everything. That way a get consistency between languages, but also to right custom stuff for each language without endless fiddling with plugins and settings.
it's actually way more efficient then vscode from my experience. if i ever want to change a function or create a test. i would waste half of the time on rustrover than on vscode. and the best part is that this is just a preview, so the actual release is gonna be 100x better then this.
the features he showed (besides the integrated HTTP server) are all things vscode already has though? you can make a snippet for a test module/test function if you want to and it's even pretty easy
@@oxey_ i meant the inegrated part. If i rename a function in rustrover, it would change that function across all of my project. On vscode this is something that takes a while and isnt worth it
I am so sure about your point about performance. VSCode uses Electron - which is very performance hungry - and IntelliJ / RustRover is implemented in Java which is also not know for its good performance. Why did you not include some alternative Editors like NeoVim or Helix in your comparision?
It is not going to be as fast as NeoVim or Helix however the performance shouldn't be an issue. IntelliJ is an outlier when it comes to JetBrains tools as it is notoriously slower than the other IDE's provided such as CLion, PHPStorm, Webstorm, and RustRover.
When I was an beginner like everyone was some time back I really thought you need such IDEs but many years gone by and now I have a self costumized neovim version which I carefully build with only the things I found useful. But people indirectly supporting rust language by buying such IDE is a good thing
6:00 If you are willing to use devcontainers, the Rust _feature_ already contains all of these extensions. Adding in sccache is a touch tricky since you'll want a docker volume mounted for that. I am considering releasing a feature specifically for sccache, if I can figure out the permissions of the volume consistently.
Re 0:49 - where’s the `#![no_std]` project template? And where’s RustRover’s equivalent of `.vscode/settings.json` for customizing the check-on-save command, which needs to happen in order for Rust kernel projects to even compile?
There's a .idea folder for every Intellij Project instantiated through the IDE. But its hidden in the IDE unless you toggle it in the settings or go to the folder directly in the explorer. check-on-save, and other on-save actions can also be configured in the settings, no different from VSCode.
@@BlaQsheeeP Including target specs? Because when you’re compiling for `x86_64-unknown-none` it helps to make sure the IDE knows that so it doesn’t try to compile `std` against your will and throw a cascade of errors.
@@kennystrawnmusic I am really not sure! I'm playing around with Rust Rover a little, if I find out I will let you know. I would assume that its somewhere in the idea folder.
I am trying Zed and Helix specifically for Rust. Zed is performance is better than VSCode, and it's comparable to Vim editors. Also customizable. So far, I am satisfied with Zed for Rust coding.
I reckon it's worth emphasising that RustRover's web experience also beats what's in VS Code, not just the Rust experience. There's also Git support built in that makes other tools redundant.
All of this sounds great, but have you considered the thrill of having your own nvim config? Haven't touched mine with a stick for over half a year, because I am too afraid to loose another week of my life down that path. This keeps me sharp and focused. What other IDEs give you that?
Why does the programming language written and compiled from, matters for a development environment? I can understand this for interpreted languages, but isn't it the point of compiled languages that the source does not matter, unless you are working with the source?
@@thingsiplay If you don't improve your tools then you cap your maximum efficiency. Tailoring your tools to deal with your code allows you to further increase your productivity, and this may be more easily achieved when everything's written in the same language.
@@ShadoFXPerino No, this is not more easily achieved if the tools are written in the language. That has no impact, unless you are working with the source itself. It has 0 impact (again, unless you work or need the source of the editor itself). You should focus on the quality of the product instead the language it is written in, if you want improve and choose the best editor/ide for you.
Honestly its nice to see to get a jetbrains IDE but I switched to nvim a while ago and cant be more happy Just am worried that once i graduate and look for a job the employer might force me to use an IDE. is that a thing?
Agree; However, via WSLg you can run it from your Linux distro, install locally. I found JetBrains WSL integration lacking and poor performance compaired to VSCode. I switched to running the tools from Linux when I do. I mostly rely on Helix though.
@@ShayneHartford I don’t want a remote workspace, I just want rustrover to use the toolchain in WSL. That does not work yet despite similar things working in RubyMine and Webstorm.
Tried using Kate for C++ way back and while it worked better than I initially expected, it wasn't the best experience. Never tried it with Rust though, given how great the tooling is Kate might be nice to use. I'm personally waiting for Lapce to fix last few quirks and then I'm switching to it instead.
My only problem with the JetBrains IDEs is that the cost isn’t just a one time payment it’s a subscription. I would likely have bought Rust Rover if I could just pay once and then only pay again when I want updated features in a newer version.
I like the toml autocompletion and debugger so I will consider it as an extra tool, but I will def. Stick with helix as an editor. Also I dont see how the intellij rust completion are better than rust-analyzer
@@jonnyso1 no, theyre using the rust Plugin previously provided for intellij that uses a jetbrains standard instead of lsp, since intellij didnt get lsp support unil very recently.
Whenever I come across a statement like “...VS Code has the same developer experience as a JetBrains IDE...”, I want to ask that person: Can you do code refactoring in the same way as it is possible in a JetBrains IDE? Because in the area of code refactoring VS Code is still a notepad on steroids in can only find words based on patterns. Another misleading part - the comparison chart at the end. JetBrains IDEs support almost all popular languages, and it is not in a single application but in a bundle. They provide the best tool for coding in the same UI. It is not free - Yes, and how much? I am sure 100-200 USD per year(!) is a small price for the main professional tool for programmers with their salary. Some people need to understand - a good product needs good professionals who want to earn money for a living. Or you can work “for free”?
Right! I'm forced to use VSCode at my current client for security reasons (I.e., its the only approved IDE) and I can't fathom how anybody can compare it to a JetBrains IDE. Clunky, slow, plug ins are variable at best, integration is meh. But hey, its free. Can't help but laugh at the irony of professional devs crying about paid tools. I guess they're all full time volunteers for FOSS projects because they're definitely not making commercial software.....
I have kind of like a not related to this video question. I am watching you since last 2 yrs. Introduction us to rust and new releases and other news. But I want to know, what's the coolest thing you made using rust ?? 😊
I personally dislike a new editor for a new language, being a polyglot developer. But I gotta admit, if you use only rust in job, this is a really neat editor.
I love IntelliJ, but as I'm learning Rust with NeoVim (which I hadn't used prior to learning Rust). I'm curious: what is the advantage of Rust Rover over NeoVim?
Rust rover would have some better snippets and code suggestions. If you are new to rust those might be helpful. Setting up debugger and refactoring is also pretty nice in jetbrains products
Maybe I couldn't find it, but it didn't seem like RR had remote editing over ssh. that's a dealbreaker for me and I bet a lot of rust devs who rely on cloud vm's for development
To be honest RR doesn't seem to bring much to the table that I don't already have in vscode. Nvim is probably even better, but with a bit more initial elbow-grease put in. So do I want to pay for features I already have for free? Nope.
For me it's hard to justify paying for a closed source IDE when a free, open source IDE does as good or better job. Also, I write in multiple languages, and VSCode provides a relatively consistent experience across languages.
was that sponsored ? i can't see why this is excellent over most other editors especially ones with plugin ecosystem ? because of the heavy bloat and closed source / proprietary its just a more negative to use jetbrains.
The language server is surprisingly slow at updating in rustrover. If they dont improve that by the time it goes paid i dont see how itll be worthwhile for me
Thanks for this comparison, but pretty much every feature you highlighted is available in VSCode as well. You said you were going to compare features, but you never did a 1-to-1 comparison. The way you structured your video made it seems that the features you showed off were unique to RustRover, which is unintentionally misleading.
I dont see how any IDE can be a gamechanger. They all use the same lsp, format tools etc, just bring them in a different design. I thought jetbrains have their own intellisense but it also just seems same as vscode.
Helix Is the plug and play true Rust ide, Just install helix, then install rust-analyzer and you have a Dream vim-like setup with fuzzy Finder and written in your favorite language 🔥 and It Is OPEN SOURCE
Vscode isn't performant, by any means, it is after all an Electron app, and last time I checked fleet it managed to be even laggier than vscode. Though I do think feet's performance will get better
"they have great performance" he said pointing to VSC. My guy, performance is one of the things everyone objectively agrees VSC sucks at. Where th did you pull that info from?
📝Get your *FREE Rust cheat sheet* :
letsgetrusty.com/cheatsheet
Man you hurt my feeling 😢😂
“On top of not being able to make any money writing rust you actually have to pay money to write rust”
You need to learn Java to pay for your Rust habit lol!
If you are lucky you may get to write Go instead of Java.
If you are unlucky you will be writing Node microservices.
In case you're looking for a Rust job: letsgetrusty.com/jobs
@@letsgetrusty sadly at the moment there's no rust job in my region, I don't mind that much because I love rust and I want to continue using it for my own project but would be even better if I can find a job that let me use my favorite language
I’ve been using both RustRover, and VSCode, and I would say that if you include the right extensions, they’re practically the same on language features. One thing that VSCode really does way better is the Remoting over container/SSH/WSL, it just works flawlessly with everything including Rust projects
I've found VSCode to be slow and buggy for Rust.
yeah, codespaces are a pain on jetbrains ide's but their docker and database integration is a fair trade for me
@@LetrixAR I found VS Code to be slow and buggy for almost anything. :(
@@ThePC007 yes its Slow on bigger code bases and not so powerful machine, but buggy? 🤔
@@lukeskywalker7029 I found that a lot of times it would fail to show compiler errors correctly, show errors that weren’t actually there, fail to find the definition of a symbol, etc. I mean, sure, the bugs were likely located in the extensions responsible for those features, rather than VS Code itself, but what does it matter when I can use a JetBrains IDE which “just works”, while VS Code oftentimes doesn’t work too well (for certain languages/frameworks).
Jetbrains IDE is very good at refactoring.
I'm confused. What kind of refactor can a jetbrains editor do that vscode or neovim cannot?
@@wrong1029nothing realy times where that was a jetbrais only pro is long gone
@@wrong1029I’m not too sure because I’m not familiar with VSCode but the thing with Jetbrains is they index the entirety of your codebase and file structures including names of files, functions, variables, and even string paths to files and make trees with the underlying data, so that when you refactor anything including moving a file, all the variables, strings and functions and imports all update to the new path. And so on. They get really language specific, like when you use Golang changing a mod name will change every call to the modules as well as all the imports to the new name.
@@massy-3961 Underrated power.
@@wrong1029 you can refactor even in notepad.exe. Main question how much pain it will cause. JB products - less pain
I do not doubt that RR is a good IDE.
But I feel like the thing that would be useful for most devs is not in any way rust specific.
It's that you get your IDE pre-configured.
I've just checked and rust-analyzer has the exact same snippets (tmod, tfn, ...).
And that's because rust-analyzer is an impressive tool which is available from the rust devs themselves.
So again... RR looks nice.
But the thing actually "setting it apart" is having the http client and crate integration out of the box.
The thing setting it apart is JetBrains. I've been using JB IDEs for years and it would be a considerable productivity hit to move to something else. With RustRover, we have even more competition in the Rust IDE space, which should make all tools better
I know that Rust and C and C++ people think that debugger is this ugly thing that is hard to use and mostly useless... But if they get it right in RR, it will be a game changer for Rust. If they get 50% of what JetBrains offer for Java or C# in this regard, you would be blown away.
Also, the IDE can do SO MUCH MORE. It's one of the best DB tools on the market already - I don't use PgAdmin or MSSQLS anymore, it's Rider (IDE for C#). It can recognize the SQL in your code, and when you select the schema, type check it for you. Display sample rows or columns.
It remembers your context per git branch - opened docs, bookmarks etc
Of course, you probably can get all of this in VS code or even Nvim, but with the IDE you get it out of the box. I've been using Rider for the last 4 years, I am still discovering features - mostly new places where I can just start typing to filter the options
It's always Good to have more options
After all, these are just tools. So use whatever suits you
Most of the people will still be using VSCode or *Vim as these are free and OSS + battle tested. But also having a somewhat strong competitor like JB is a bonus. It'll for sure push the development of rust-analyzer
Agreed!
I'm so gutted for Vim. . . I think over time NeoVim will take over for that community seeing as Bram was so dedicated to it's development. There's already been talk of only having security support for Vim.
isn't jetbrains also using rust analyzer?
VS Code is not really FOSS considering the proprietary telemetry. Apart from that, I agree!
@@t-e-eVS Codium
If they get debugging and refactoring tools right, it's a win for me. VS Code is very limited at that.
In what sense is VS Code limited in refactoring and debugging? I couldn't experience this within my little Rust projects. The work is essentially done by the Rust plugins which are pretty great.
debugging and refactoring should works great, I've used these features in the rust plugin for IntelliJ and CLion which got turned into this new IDE
@@StefaNoneD vscode is functional enough, but as soon as you want to do something like or more than stepping through the program with a debugger then it expects you to write a full debugging setup per project, and its very prone to breaking in my experience of using it for the last year or so. I’m using RustRover atm., and even though the IDE itself isnt stable yet, the rust functionality is on point and just works. If you’ve used a JetBrains IDE you know why people buy them, they really are better than the alternative unless you’re making a neovim setup from scratch or use a custom visual studio setup for work that only works with another editor.
@@mikkelens If you would talk about C++, I could follow, because C++ and VS Code is PITA. I use CLion for C++. But altough CLion is better for C++, for me it's still PITA, because refactoring is error prone and slow, and - for some reasons - debugging is very slow (there is a very old ticket for that) and there are many regressions on version updates.
@@StefaNoneD TBF, there's probably no full featured IDE that can handle C++ correctly because the entire ecosystem is fragmented (5+ mainsteam build systems) and the language is basically a rube goldberg machine. Even very stable tools like clang-format have issues dealing with its syntax.
4:16 My heart gave weird twinkle when I've seen vscode and great performance toogether :D
It's a generous relative comparison.
I'm already subscribed to Jetbrains and write in pure rust, so for me this is an absolute win
Vim is the ultimate Rust IDE.
You need to be stopped
I would really use either NeoVIM or Helix .. but none of the other IDEs mentioned in the video .. they are good .. Specially RR, but none compares to VIM productivity once fully configured
Completely agree, vim is ultimate especially. All these IDE features shown in the video can be integrated with vim/nvim by anybody with some knowledge around this. Plus you only have the features you need and it's not proprietary rubbish and doesn't bloat your system
agreed, thats why I use helix
@@DiaaKasem0Just use ideavim
I'm coming at this the other way around, as a daily user of JetBrains products, the announcement of the RustRover preview has made me try out Rust for the first time.
stay away from async for as long as you can, king. it's well worth it to learn the core language first and all of the async rust gotchas later
@@jenreiss3107
lol, async with rust is very simple if you are not doing complex stuff
I personally find Lapce to be one of the best Rust editors. It covers mentioned features, has Plugin support and is written in Rust by itself.
Rustrover is available for free for non-comercial, single-developer use. That means you only start paying for it when you start making money using it.
I would like to see a community driven development continuation of the IntelliJ Plugin - as I will not pay for RR as long as I am just learning the language and mostly developing something small for fun, for learning or open source programs.
RR is free for the moment. I also have vs code.. try one , try another
I really hope they do an community edition like they did with pycharm
@@wumwum42Probably not as Rust is far less popular than Python. By providing a community edition for Pycharm JetBrains gets new programmers who usually start with Python used to their great products straight away and more likely to continue using them
Tested the RR and Clion+newest plugin, now it has the ability to give semantic completion and code navigation inside macro_rules while rust-analyzer can't. I thought this is a big step forward and the reason why they are pushing a new Rust IDE
VSCode, and great performance in the same sentence, I was not expecting that.
That's cause you've never tried Visual Studio :)
Electron and performance are oxymoronic
@@happygofishingStill better performance than any of JetBrains IDEs though
@@whatever990because we never tried shit
Who tf cares about the performance of my ide. I have plenty of ram and it taking seven cpu cycles more to render the font is not the reason my code doesn’t work.
Been using RR since last week. Love it
Thanks for the video. I generally love the JetBrain IDEs. However the current build of Rust Rover (still in early access) is almost unusably unstable. 20s freezes, out-of-memory errors, and slow analysis are common. It will need major bug fixing before it is usable for me.
I'm very surprised about them bot being sure if they want to keep a rustrover plugin in clion. Rust is a low level system programming language and ffi with C and C++ is an important feature. Separating the IDEs needed into two seems like a bad move.
The main reason I transferred from vscode to JetBrain product is the indexing.
Performance wise I think JetBrain is a lot worse but indexing can help me navigate through large code base a lot easier.
My only problem is there is no difference between RustRover and the current Rust plugin implementation as a CLion plugin. Was a full fledged IDE necessary?
that's how jetbrains does things, i guess
I mean obviously that plugin is not going to get any more improvements, and they're only going to improve RustRover. I could be mistaken, but I think they already did this with Go. I can see people talk about how there used to be a CLion plugin for Go years ago, but I can't find it anymore now that JetBrains has the GoLand IDE.
@@jolynele2587I felt that way with RubyMine tbh. Also, Fleet is still a thing, right? I guess It aint a concern to me, I don’t use jetbrains stuff lol.
@@twenty-fifth420 fleet is available non commercially. i haven't used fleet and don't plan to, but a vscode alternative not written in electron is always welcome
nope, just killed the plugin to make more cash
I'm learning Rust and the combination RustRover + Copilot is just amazing! I love it.
Since rust is living and has regular updates I think we should expect to pay someone to put in the work to keep our IDEs in sync with all the cool stuff rolling out. As long as they are charging less than my streaming service does I am more than happy to pay. How many times have I tried to use a new Rust feature only to find it "confused" my current IDE, my hope is that updates will happen faster on a payed product but only time will tell...
Updating rustup also updates the compiler, clippy and rustanalyzer... what more do you need?
In my experience JetBrains IDEs are very quick to add support for new language features even before they're officially released. E.g. they added support for GoLang generics when they were still a preview feature.
i have used this IDE and i must say its pretty amazing, i was using sublime for rust before but it was not that good, rustrover is good but still its a bit buggy and has glitches
It would be great to see if RR provides better debugging support than VSCode. Does it do that now?
Do you think RustRover will be free to academic use like the other JetBrains' IDEs? Im member of my university's robotics team and we've recently migrated our codebase to Rust, and we consider using RustRover, but we have no means to pay it at the moment.
Since all their other IDE's are free for academic use I would guess that it will be too.
it is going to be the same as their other ides
Pretty sure it will be free for educational purposes. It is already listed in their all products pack that you get with the edu licence.
@@Vica1904 I didnt know. thx!
In terms of SSH Connection - i use Vscode there is nothing better.
In terms of having a solid editing experience - I prefer Jetbrains
But I use nvim if I can
The problem with vscode is that they don't support cargo features. The default features are enabled for the project by default and you can switch them in the rust configs but you can only switch it for the complete workspace, not for a crate inside a workspace.
Rustrover can enable and disable features in your cargo.toml file for each crate individual.
Vscode is unusable for some of my bigger projects where i work with many different features. I hope they will fix this issue.
But if you working on a project without internal features then vscode is as good as rust rover.
But the good news is that this is not an issue with vscode, but the extension.
It will be ironed out.
@@avinashthakur80 correct, but until then. RR will be the king.
competition is great for that exact reason.
@@avinashthakur80 Yes thats right, it is the extension.
Are they working on it to get that cargo support with feature switch for packages inside a workspace? That would be great.
If the entire community is behind rust-analyzer, this will split the community, Jetbrains IDEs tend to ignore standards, introduce their own tooling that prevents collboration.
JetBrains has always done their own thing with their own tooling and it's fantastic. I don't remember any time in the past they've "split the community" by doing their own thing, there'll still be a huge backing for rust-analyzer especially given this will eventually be a paid product.
@@RyanBreaker nothing they realy do is fantastic sub par at best there is literally no reason to pay for their product apart from branding and marketing you just pay for stuff that you can have for free
@@NonsensGamingI've used JetBrains for pretty much my entire career and it provides for me great value out of the box. The refactoring, git, database, and other tools are fantastic compared to getting the same functionality out of VS Code. I say this as a proud nvim user on the side, too.
How will it split the community? Why can't the two exist? For example, we don't really see only GCC out there, there are others.
OSS does not mean paid products do not have their value. YOU are a developer, you can spend that money in a weekend doing stupid stuff, or invest it for a year to have a professional tool. Don't be cheap.
I have all sorts of non language specific customizations in my editor, it would take a lot of convincing to get me to switch to a different editor just for one particular language.
Same!
I'm on the other side, I just use the correct Jetbrains IDE for everything. That way a get consistency between languages, but also to right custom stuff for each language without endless fiddling with plugins and settings.
If you have a really big vimrc like me, then worry not! All jetbrains ides can parse and use your existing vimrc!
it's actually way more efficient then vscode from my experience. if i ever want to change a function or create a test. i would waste half of the time on rustrover than on vscode. and the best part is that this is just a preview, so the actual release is gonna be 100x better then this.
the features he showed (besides the integrated HTTP server) are all things vscode already has though? you can make a snippet for a test module/test function if you want to and it's even pretty easy
@@oxey_ i meant the inegrated part. If i rename a function in rustrover, it would change that function across all of my project. On vscode this is something that takes a while and isnt worth it
@@pretro6136F2
Ty for this, Im rust beginner who works in spring boot IntellIJ IDE and seeing this Im so happy.
Jetbrain IDE's are just the best out there
A Rust IDE made in Java
please dont remind us, i hate this fact
Wait, does that mean, that I will now need a C/C++ plugin for RustRover?
AAAHAHAHAHAHA
VSCode has great performance? That's some strong COPIUM you smoked there, my friend.
🤓
I am so sure about your point about performance. VSCode uses Electron - which is very performance hungry - and IntelliJ / RustRover is implemented in Java which is also not know for its good performance.
Why did you not include some alternative Editors like NeoVim or Helix in your comparision?
It is not going to be as fast as NeoVim or Helix however the performance shouldn't be an issue. IntelliJ is an outlier when it comes to JetBrains tools as it is notoriously slower than the other IDE's provided such as CLion, PHPStorm, Webstorm, and RustRover.
tbh this is GC hate FUD. Java has had decades to improve it's GC perf and the fact is most working devs don't have time to write their own .vimrc
> ... in Java which is also not know for its good performance
this no longer valid - it's no longer running on jre8
you can absolutely make a performant app in java, and no I dont want to see your microbenchmarks
Do you compare SUVs with intercontinental missiles?
When I was an beginner like everyone was some time back I really thought you need such IDEs but many years gone by and now I have a self costumized neovim version which I carefully build with only the things I found useful. But people indirectly supporting rust language by buying such IDE is a good thing
I always find entertaining to explore the different options that the create project wizard gives you
6:00 If you are willing to use devcontainers, the Rust _feature_ already contains all of these extensions.
Adding in sccache is a touch tricky since you'll want a docker volume mounted for that. I am considering releasing a feature specifically for sccache, if I can figure out the permissions of the volume consistently.
Re 0:49 - where’s the `#![no_std]` project template? And where’s RustRover’s equivalent of `.vscode/settings.json` for customizing the check-on-save command, which needs to happen in order for Rust kernel projects to even compile?
There's a .idea folder for every Intellij Project instantiated through the IDE. But its hidden in the IDE unless you toggle it in the settings or go to the folder directly in the explorer. check-on-save, and other on-save actions can also be configured in the settings, no different from VSCode.
@@BlaQsheeeP Including target specs? Because when you’re compiling for `x86_64-unknown-none` it helps to make sure the IDE knows that so it doesn’t try to compile `std` against your will and throw a cascade of errors.
@@kennystrawnmusic I am really not sure! I'm playing around with Rust Rover a little, if I find out I will let you know. I would assume that its somewhere in the idea folder.
I am trying Zed and Helix specifically for Rust. Zed is performance is better than VSCode, and it's comparable to Vim editors. Also customizable. So far, I am satisfied with Zed for Rust coding.
Superb video! Clean and concise presentation of everything one should know about the new IDE.
I reckon it's worth emphasising that RustRover's web experience also beats what's in VS Code, not just the Rust experience. There's also Git support built in that makes other tools redundant.
Lazygit is the way
if RR do have better macro related feature and FFI (library binding to c/c++ ), that will best thing ever
I'm a neovim user and been months since I started learning rust.
Can and of you suggest plug-ins that could enhance my rust coding experience?
All of this sounds great, but have you considered the thrill of having your own nvim config? Haven't touched mine with a stick for over half a year, because I am too afraid to loose another week of my life down that path. This keeps me sharp and focused. What other IDEs give you that?
i will only use a Rust IDE written in Rust...
Why does the programming language written and compiled from, matters for a development environment? I can understand this for interpreted languages, but isn't it the point of compiled languages that the source does not matter, unless you are working with the source?
So, helix?
if you aren't joking, use helix/lapce.
@@thingsiplay If you don't improve your tools then you cap your maximum efficiency. Tailoring your tools to deal with your code allows you to further increase your productivity, and this may be more easily achieved when everything's written in the same language.
@@ShadoFXPerino No, this is not more easily achieved if the tools are written in the language. That has no impact, unless you are working with the source itself. It has 0 impact (again, unless you work or need the source of the editor itself).
You should focus on the quality of the product instead the language it is written in, if you want improve and choose the best editor/ide for you.
Honestly its nice to see to get a jetbrains IDE but I switched to nvim a while ago and cant be more happy
Just am worried that once i graduate and look for a job the employer might force me to use an IDE. is that a thing?
"All three has great performance."
As a Neovim user, I take great offense to that statement.
Ahahaha ikr, the above are all pretty rubbish in comparison to a personally configured DE
offended by fully-fledged, out of the box, cool-feature-rich commercially standardised ide's?
@stalker200368 nope, just offended by the suggestion that those products are performant
@@yelmak why arent they? A bit of indexing in the beginning and you can do almost everything instantly
Fair
I do hope they put WSL toolchains in soon.
Agree; However, via WSLg you can run it from your Linux distro, install locally. I found JetBrains WSL integration lacking and poor performance compaired to VSCode. I switched to running the tools from Linux when I do. I mostly rely on Helix though.
@@ShayneHartford I don’t want a remote workspace, I just want rustrover to use the toolchain in WSL. That does not work yet despite similar things working in RubyMine and Webstorm.
I just started and I’m just using Kate since it comes baked into KDE. What do y’all think of that?
Tried using Kate for C++ way back and while it worked better than I initially expected, it wasn't the best experience. Never tried it with Rust though, given how great the tooling is Kate might be nice to use. I'm personally waiting for Lapce to fix last few quirks and then I'm switching to it instead.
My only problem with the JetBrains IDEs is that the cost isn’t just a one time payment it’s a subscription.
I would likely have bought Rust Rover if I could just pay once and then only pay again when I want updated features in a newer version.
I like the toml autocompletion and debugger so I will consider it as an extra tool, but I will def. Stick with helix as an editor. Also I dont see how the intellij rust completion are better than rust-analyzer
They are probably using rust-analyzer aahahah
@@jonnyso1 no, theyre using the rust Plugin previously provided for intellij that uses a jetbrains standard instead of lsp, since intellij didnt get lsp support unil very recently.
The RustRover has a community version now 😃
Whenever I come across a statement like “...VS Code has the same developer experience as a JetBrains IDE...”, I want to ask that person: Can you do code refactoring in the same way as it is possible in a JetBrains IDE? Because in the area of code refactoring VS Code is still a notepad on steroids in can only find words based on patterns.
Another misleading part - the comparison chart at the end. JetBrains IDEs support almost all popular languages, and it is not in a single application but in a bundle. They provide the best tool for coding in the same UI.
It is not free - Yes, and how much? I am sure 100-200 USD per year(!) is a small price for the main professional tool for programmers with their salary. Some people need to understand - a good product needs good professionals who want to earn money for a living. Or you can work “for free”?
yep
Right! I'm forced to use VSCode at my current client for security reasons (I.e., its the only approved IDE) and I can't fathom how anybody can compare it to a JetBrains IDE. Clunky, slow, plug ins are variable at best, integration is meh. But hey, its free.
Can't help but laugh at the irony of professional devs crying about paid tools. I guess they're all full time volunteers for FOSS projects because they're definitely not making commercial software.....
The thing that(oddly) saddens me, is that we either have an LSP based Editor or a JetBrains solution. Nothing outside those two.
I'm currently struggling to debug embedded rust code on vscode right now, does RR make it any easier?
I have kind of like a not related to this video question. I am watching you since last 2 yrs. Introduction us to rust and new releases and other news.
But I want to know, what's the coolest thing you made using rust ?? 😊
I kinda wish fleet would just adopt IDEAvim bc it’s vim emulation is just missing so many standard features
my first action after he said "VSCode has great performance" was to check the comment section.
I'm still waiting...
yes that is true. vsc has great performance and lightweight-ness compared to other IDEs and editors.
10 months have gone by. did rustrover mature or improve yet or is vs code still the boss ide?
Wait, people do use regular visual studio? 3:52
Any Code snippet extensions for VSCode recommended?
I personally dislike a new editor for a new language, being a polyglot developer. But I gotta admit, if you use only rust in job, this is a really neat editor.
Using RR now. Also using neovim. Both have its use
In which scenarios does nvim shne where rr does not?
I love IntelliJ, but as I'm learning Rust with NeoVim (which I hadn't used prior to learning Rust). I'm curious: what is the advantage of Rust Rover over NeoVim?
Rust rover would have some better snippets and code suggestions. If you are new to rust those might be helpful. Setting up debugger and refactoring is also pretty nice in jetbrains products
You did not just ask that brother
@@reihanboo why? neovim literally has everything
I think this is a great tool. Helped me start learning Rust at x4 pace
Maybe I couldn't find it, but it didn't seem like RR had remote editing over ssh. that's a dealbreaker for me and I bet a lot of rust devs who rely on cloud vm's for development
This was my experience as well, and prompted me to do an immediate uninstall.. I'll wait until they are ready before trying again.
I failed to find a profiler in RR. Did I miss it or is it not present?
Now RustRover has Free Non-Commercial Option
I would love to see your opinion about Lapce
To be honest RR doesn't seem to bring much to the table that I don't already have in vscode. Nvim is probably even better, but with a bit more initial elbow-grease put in. So do I want to pay for features I already have for free? Nope.
For me it's hard to justify paying for a closed source IDE when a free, open source IDE does as good or better job. Also, I write in multiple languages, and VSCode provides a relatively consistent experience across languages.
you can pay for it in like a day of work
The features you mentioned are not RustRover specific, they are available in all JetBrains products
I really like Not VSCode options
(but I still use VSCode 98% of the time)
was that sponsored ? i can't see why this is excellent over most other editors especially ones with plugin ecosystem ? because of the heavy bloat and closed source / proprietary its just a more negative to use jetbrains.
Cool, but Rust Analyzer basically gives all that anywhere anyway. JetBrains makes good stuff but I don't see any reason to leave Nvim for it.
Is there a community edition like PyCharm or am I never going to use it ?😢
Can you dev remotely with rr like vscode does?
What is that you didn't have before this so called IDE?
Play button?
vscode is faster in my setup with tons of features from extensions than raw rustrover with or without external linting feature enabled, a lot
good luk with your 990000 plugins and still have rust anylazer or any other lang to stop working
The language server is surprisingly slow at updating in rustrover. If they dont improve that by the time it goes paid i dont see how itll be worthwhile for me
very interesting video. I'll stay on VScodium for now.
I thought the caption was #1 must die 😂😂😂
Vscode 🔥
I have the EAP build. I will be purchasing.
jetbrains entered the room
everyone can plietly back off
Just use *Evil Emacs* with rust-mode!
I prefer to never use software behind paywall, I prefer to stay free and independet, and rely mostly on FOSS and Open Source. FREEDOM!
I would like to try it, but it's not even worth it, if I can't even use it after the preview phase.
Thanks for this comparison, but pretty much every feature you highlighted is available in VSCode as well. You said you were going to compare features, but you never did a 1-to-1 comparison. The way you structured your video made it seems that the features you showed off were unique to RustRover, which is unintentionally misleading.
I dont see how any IDE can be a gamechanger. They all use the same lsp, format tools etc, just bring them in a different design. I thought jetbrains have their own intellisense but it also just seems same as vscode.
Helix Is the plug and play true Rust ide, Just install helix, then install rust-analyzer and you have a Dream vim-like setup with fuzzy Finder and written in your favorite language 🔥 and It Is OPEN SOURCE
Thank you for this
Vscode isn't performant, by any means, it is after all an Electron app, and last time I checked fleet it managed to be even laggier than vscode. Though I do think feet's performance will get better
"they have great performance" he said pointing to VSC. My guy, performance is one of the things everyone objectively agrees VSC sucks at. Where th did you pull that info from?
RoverRover in the description :D
i frikkin love rustrover rn!
Rust Rover, Rust Rover, let Jeffrey come over!