Years ago when I used to frequent the halls there was a joke doing the rounds. Our very own Joe Davis had gone across to Australia to either play in a billiards match against Walter or take part in an exhibition. Joe arrived somewhat late at the venue and could hear loud cheering and applause. 'What has happened?'' ''Its Walter'' ''Has he just finished a big break?'' ''No he is still at the table'' ''So why are they cheering?'' ''Oh, he has just taken the second cube of chalk, he has finished the first one'' Great respect from England for a very fine cue man and a nice fella to boot.
He went to India I think it was, and gave the top player 10000 points start and when he rapidly closed the gap the crowd dropped off. So he gave his opponent another 5000. Simply the greatest sportsman ( in every way ) that has ever lived to my mind.
Walter Lindrum was a genius. It's got to be remembered that the billiard/snooker tables in the Lindrum era were a world away from the tables used today. The quality of the cloth, the weight and composition of the billiard/snooker balls, even the lip angle of the pockets and the quality of the cushions/rails, were all of far lower quality than the equivalent equipment used in more modern times. Lindrum's mastery of the table and his control of the cueball was nothing less than phenomenal. Even the great Joe Davis acknowledged the superiority of Lindrum. Lindrum's domination of the game and his mastery of the sport is probably without compare. Bradman in Cricket perhaps, Eddy Merckx in Cycling, are the only practitioners in their respective sports to compare with Lindrum's dominance in Billiards. Fascinating too to see Lindrum playing snooker in this great documentary. Nursery cannons were superb, very difficult to do though! Thanks for this fascinating documentary. I've waited years to see this sort of coverage of WL. Greetings
Without a doubt to my mind, the greatest sportsman who has ever lived, I don't know of any other sports person that had the rules changed to curb their ability to score points.
There is a common misconception, as evidenced by your comment, that the equipment used in Lindrum's day was far inferior to today's. That is not the case. The cloths used were of the highest quality, coming out of the Strachan factory who still supply cloths to the WPBSA. The composition balls used in those days were high quality, and while the modern balls are livelier and more suited to snooker, the old balls were very suitable for billiards, with the added advantage that there were many fewer kicks. As you can see from watching old videos, the cut of the pockets was quite receptive, perhaps a little more generous than some modern pockets. And the cushion rubbers were of the highest quality - in those days cushions were made of strip rubber, as opposed to modern cushions which are made of block rubbber. Strip rubber cushions are more receptive to side than block rubber and so are more suitable for billiards. The changes made since Lindrum's time have all benefited snooker, in some cases to the detriment of billiards. But they were playing under very good conditions indeed in those days.
I remember the standard balls being heavier (or feeling heavier). They were made out of Ivory, or Clay - you could play a controlled screw shot with them if you were a good cueist, but they were more suited to the follow-through shots, which I suppose supports your comment about those balls being more suitable for Billiards, which relies on the follow-through shot a lot of the time. As far as the cloths, they didn't have the "shaved" cloths back then, that snooker tables have these days. If you put unintentional side on the ball, it tended to curve a lot more than it does on these modern fine napped cloths. The cloths with the heavier nap tended to make the pockets somewhat tighter than the shaved clothed tables of today - I should know, because I've played on both. Also, the nap tended to affect the line of the ball a lot back then, so it wasn't as easy as one might think. As far as whether or not Walter Lindrum would have been able to make the transition to Snooker, Joe Davis said that Walter was the best Billiards player, & if he took up Snooker, he would have been the best Snooker player (of that era). Unlike us, Joe was actually there, & saw Walter in the flesh, so I'm not going to argue with him.
I had the luck of playing at I believe his niece's (most likely the one in this doco) billiard place in Melbourne in the '70s. It was snooker then. I remember it being on an upper floor room in Flinders Street, but this magnificent story says it was in Flinders Lane. I played with my mates on many visits. We were hopeless players. Until watching this doco I had no clue of his humbleness and philanthropy.
I played and visited both as a boy and young man, Flinders Lane was the original 'Lindrums' billiard room and was later moved to Flinders street (near corner of Spring Street) where they had 2 floors of tables and a small 8-ball table near the main service counter. I used to attend Flinders Street at 11am when Dolly opened up and practise for a few hours.
@@gazncoll You have a better memory than me. I did not know of the 2 floors. I did not go there often and only now do I realise I should have. The place was magic to me. I'm glad I still have it in my memories.
@@albertlanger2339 A snooker buddy of mine knew Dolly and set it up for me able to visit her in Walter's home in South Melbourne and see his home table set up. Great experience!
Billiards is not a great spectator sport. It's ok for players that can only string small breaks together at the club, but not when you have people capable of staying on the table for hours in one go. That's what killed Billiards. Lindrum just highlighted the games weakness by mastering it in a way others could not get close to. It's a pity he didn't get into Snooker, it's a very different game, but with that sort of cue ball control, he would have done well regardless.
I've been lucky enough to stay in the Lindrum hotel on Flinders Street. I think it's the old lindrum billiard saloon. On the ground floor, they have in there, Walter Lindrums personal private table in there, I believe it's either a Thurston's or an Alcock & Sons from memory. Steel block cushions and they reclothed it in 30oz 6811 recently and it feels like you a playing on a period correct star/shender. What a privilege to say that I've played on that table.
Sorry to disappoint, but that was not Walter's private table. Walter's private table stood in the family home at 158 Kerford Rd Albert Park and stayed there unmoved for decades, until a few weeks ago when it was shipped back to Alcocks for loving restoration following the sale of the house. It is hoped that it will eventually find a home in a sports museum, ideally at the MCG.
i always believed Joe Davies was the best but after watching this i'm inclined to change my mind i love all cue sports snooker , 8 ball pool ,all forms of American pool, Chinese pool etc i'm fascinated by the cue action and discipline of top players but they all make mistakes eventually so the trick is to be ready and take your chance and make less mistakes and if they beat you well have the grace to admit they were better than you and shake his hand, it's much easier to be a good sportsman than a good player !!!!!!!!
There's even better in store. Look up the clip from 1931 when he calls every shot of a 100 break, when he was in his competitive prime. It's terrifying how effortless he makes it look.
At 22:26 It looks like he is out of position but he gets a massive transfer of side on to the red ball. Wtf I wonder if the ivory balls were different back in the day because I can't see a modern ball picking up that much side. Snooker and pool players often used to say that transfer of side is bullshit. I remember Steve Davis showing a demonstration with a half coloured ball once trying to prove that it's a myth. But check out that shot by Lindrum, that's transfer of side if I've ever seen anything.
I re-watched it to see what you mean, but can't really see anything myself. The camera angle doesn't help much. Nothing out of the ordinary I can see, beyond he can play billiards really, really well.
There's also a clip during this exhibition where the opponents white is partially blocking the line for the spot shot to the top left corner. You can hear Walter say to the ref: "up a bit", when he's spotting the red.
While I think Joe Davis is severely underrated these days when compared to modern players. I think even Joe himself would agree Lindrum was the master of Billiards bar none. He moved to Snooker as his main game mainly because he thought Billiards had been mastered (by Lindrum) and thought Snooker was the way to go. As it turns out, it was a good move for him :)
@@RetroGamebloke When I was seriously into Snooker, I got lessons from the late great Murt O'donogue, whom used to play with Walter Lindrum a lot. Murt said Lindrum found snooker quite boring and he would clear the table and make 147 breaks often. Murt further told me that Joe Davis could not beat Lindrum at Billiards, so he turned to snooker to become the master at that. Murt was a real gentleman and the first to make a 147 break.
@@steveh7216 I have heard that as well regarding Joe's change to snooker, rather than continuing to pursue billiards. Perhaps as far as snooker goes, Lindrum didn't have enough competition to make it interesting at the time.
Years ago when I used to frequent the halls there was a joke doing the rounds. Our very own Joe Davis had gone across to Australia to either play in a billiards match against Walter or take part in an exhibition. Joe arrived somewhat late at the venue and could hear loud cheering and applause. 'What has happened?'' ''Its Walter'' ''Has he just finished a big break?'' ''No he is still at the table'' ''So why are they cheering?'' ''Oh, he has just taken the second cube of chalk, he has finished the first one'' Great respect from England for a very fine cue man and a nice fella to boot.
It was said the Walter killed the game of billiards because no one could beat him.
He went to India I think it was, and gave the top player 10000 points start and when he rapidly closed the gap the crowd dropped off. So he gave his opponent another 5000. Simply the greatest sportsman ( in every way ) that has ever lived to my mind.
Definitely the best sportsman ever, along with maybe Don Bradman. They were better than the next best by a country mile
There will only be one Walter Lindrum in 100 year he will still be the best billiard player ever.
what a great guy and wonderful billiards player. RIP Walter.
The greatest that ever played the game.
Lindrum was the greatest master of the slate ever. no pool, snooker or billiard player had his level of control and skill. incredible
Great video
Walter Lindrum was a genius. It's got to be remembered that the billiard/snooker tables in the Lindrum era were a world away from the tables used today. The quality of the cloth, the weight and composition of the billiard/snooker balls, even the lip angle of the pockets and the quality of the cushions/rails, were all of far lower quality than the equivalent equipment used in more modern times.
Lindrum's mastery of the table and his control of the cueball was nothing less than phenomenal. Even the great Joe Davis acknowledged the superiority of Lindrum. Lindrum's domination of the game and his mastery of the sport is probably without compare. Bradman in Cricket perhaps, Eddy Merckx in Cycling, are the only practitioners in their respective sports to compare with Lindrum's dominance in Billiards.
Fascinating too to see Lindrum playing snooker in this great documentary. Nursery cannons were superb, very difficult to do though! Thanks for this fascinating documentary. I've waited years to see this sort of coverage of WL. Greetings
Without a doubt to my mind, the greatest sportsman who has ever lived, I don't know of any other sports person that had the rules changed to curb their ability to score points.
If he had taken up snooker seriously he would be the best ever at that as well. Forget Ronnie, Hendry ,Davis, he's the greatest
There is a common misconception, as evidenced by your comment, that the equipment used in Lindrum's day was far inferior to today's. That is not the case. The cloths used were of the highest quality, coming out of the Strachan factory who still supply cloths to the WPBSA. The composition balls used in those days were high quality, and while the modern balls are livelier and more suited to snooker, the old balls were very suitable for billiards, with the added advantage that there were many fewer kicks. As you can see from watching old videos, the cut of the pockets was quite receptive, perhaps a little more generous than some modern pockets. And the cushion rubbers were of the highest quality - in those days cushions were made of strip rubber, as opposed to modern cushions which are made of block rubbber. Strip rubber cushions are more receptive to side than block rubber and so are more suitable for billiards. The changes made since Lindrum's time have all benefited snooker, in some cases to the detriment of billiards. But they were playing under very good conditions indeed in those days.
So why did he never beat Joe for World snooker champion?
I remember the standard balls being heavier (or feeling heavier). They were made out of Ivory, or Clay - you could play a controlled screw shot with them if you were a good cueist, but they were more suited to the follow-through shots, which I suppose supports your comment about those balls being more suitable for Billiards, which relies on the follow-through shot a lot of the time.
As far as the cloths, they didn't have the "shaved" cloths back then, that snooker tables have these days. If you put unintentional side on the ball, it tended to curve a lot more than it does on these modern fine napped cloths. The cloths with the heavier nap tended to make the pockets somewhat tighter than the shaved clothed tables of today - I should know, because I've played on both. Also, the nap tended to affect the line of the ball a lot back then, so it wasn't as easy as one might think.
As far as whether or not Walter Lindrum would have been able to make the transition to Snooker, Joe Davis said that Walter was the best Billiards player, & if he took up Snooker, he would have been the best Snooker player (of that era). Unlike us, Joe was actually there, & saw Walter in the flesh, so I'm not going to argue with him.
A GREAT BILLIARD PLAYER EVEN TO THIS DAY
His nephew, Horace Lindrum, was a great snooker player.
I had the luck of playing at I believe his niece's (most likely the one in this doco) billiard place in Melbourne in the '70s. It was snooker then. I remember it being on an upper floor room in Flinders Street, but this magnificent story says it was in Flinders Lane. I played with my mates on many visits. We were hopeless players. Until watching this doco I had no clue of his humbleness and philanthropy.
I played and visited both as a boy and young man, Flinders Lane was the original 'Lindrums' billiard room and was later moved to Flinders street (near corner of Spring Street) where they had 2 floors of tables and a small 8-ball table near the main service counter. I used to attend Flinders Street at 11am when Dolly opened up and practise for a few hours.
@@gazncoll You have a better memory than me. I did not know of the 2 floors. I did not go there often and only now do I realise I should have. The place was magic to me. I'm glad I still have it in my memories.
@@albertlanger2339 A snooker buddy of mine knew Dolly and set it up for me able to visit her in Walter's home in South Melbourne and see his home table set up. Great experience!
@@gazncoll I am happy for your memories. To be in Walter's home. If you ever got to play on that table - mate, what an experience to have in memory.
Billiards is not a great spectator sport. It's ok for players that can only string small breaks together at the club, but not when you have people capable of staying on the table for hours in one go. That's what killed Billiards. Lindrum just highlighted the games weakness by mastering it in a way others could not get close to. It's a pity he didn't get into Snooker, it's a very different game, but with that sort of cue ball control, he would have done well regardless.
Sadly modern life does not encourage patience either in the playing or watching of this great game. The era of instant reward is too pervasive.
I've been lucky enough to stay in the Lindrum hotel on Flinders Street. I think it's the old lindrum billiard saloon. On the ground floor, they have in there, Walter Lindrums personal private table in there, I believe it's either a Thurston's or an Alcock & Sons from memory. Steel block cushions and they reclothed it in 30oz 6811 recently and it feels like you a playing on a period correct star/shender. What a privilege to say that I've played on that table.
Sorry to disappoint, but that was not Walter's private table. Walter's private table stood in the family home at 158 Kerford Rd Albert Park and stayed there unmoved for decades, until a few weeks ago when it was shipped back to Alcocks for loving restoration following the sale of the house. It is hoped that it will eventually find a home in a sports museum, ideally at the MCG.
It's the rule changes that killed off billiards not lindrum.
i always believed Joe Davies was the best but after watching this i'm inclined to change my mind i love all cue sports snooker , 8 ball pool ,all forms of American pool, Chinese pool etc i'm fascinated by the cue action and discipline of top players but they all make mistakes eventually so the trick is to be ready and take your chance and make less mistakes and if they beat you well have the grace to admit they were better than you and shake his hand, it's much easier to be a good sportsman than a good player !!!!!!!!
There's even better in store. Look up the clip from 1931 when he calls every shot of a 100 break, when he was in his competitive prime. It's terrifying how effortless he makes it look.
Absolutely amazing skills from the greatest player to ever pick up a cue 😎😎😎
At 22:26 It looks like he is out of position but he gets a massive transfer of side on to the red ball. Wtf I wonder if the ivory balls were different back in the day because I can't see a modern ball picking up that much side. Snooker and pool players often used to say that transfer of side is bullshit. I remember Steve Davis showing a demonstration with a half coloured ball once trying to prove that it's a myth. But check out that shot by Lindrum, that's transfer of side if I've ever seen anything.
Snooker players say it’s a myth. Pool players use the technique all the time.
I re-watched it to see what you mean, but can't really see anything myself. The camera angle doesn't help much. Nothing out of the ordinary I can see, beyond he can play billiards really, really well.
@@RetroGamebloke Thanks for pointing that out - I put the wrong timestamp. I was talking about this nursery cannon at 22:26
Walter states in his own book that he did not believe in transfer of side.
@@justachristian4072 Caromplayers also. It's not a myth I can tell you.
And that is why billiards died of slow death🤫🤫🤫
He didn’t actually get the canon when 26 was called!
8:38 always provide your own ref in exhibitions :)
I saw that too!
There's also a clip during this exhibition where the opponents white is partially blocking the line for the spot shot to the top left corner. You can hear Walter say to the ref: "up a bit", when he's spotting the red.
Better than Michael Jordan!
You're hypocrisy hits through the roof 😂
I'm sorry but it's Joe Davis all day every day could play billiards and was a fine snooker player
While I think Joe Davis is severely underrated these days when compared to modern players. I think even Joe himself would agree Lindrum was the master of Billiards bar none. He moved to Snooker as his main game mainly because he thought Billiards had been mastered (by Lindrum) and thought Snooker was the way to go. As it turns out, it was a good move for him :)
@@RetroGamebloke When I was seriously into Snooker, I got lessons from the late great Murt O'donogue, whom used to play with Walter Lindrum a lot. Murt said Lindrum found snooker quite boring and he would clear the table and make 147 breaks often. Murt further told me that Joe Davis could not beat Lindrum at Billiards, so he turned to snooker to become the master at that. Murt was a real gentleman and the first to make a 147 break.
@@steveh7216 I have heard that as well regarding Joe's change to snooker, rather than continuing to pursue billiards. Perhaps as far as snooker goes, Lindrum didn't have enough competition to make it interesting at the time.
Im glad they introduced the rule. This is BS