Why the NGAD is more like the F-111 than you think
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2022
- The Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) fighter has entered a new phase in its development, find out why the current path that the NGAD is on is similar to that of the F-111 Aardvark from 50 years ago.
Link to the Chrome Raptor video: • F-22 Super Raptor - Is...
Link to the F-111 video: • F -111 The Unremembere...
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The Aardvark still killed more tanks than the A-10 in operation desert storm.
A10 sucks.
@@gobshite99 not against incompetent russian soviets
Didn’t the F-111 have superior targeting equipment and ground radar?
@@dnlitsuh and could fight at night and had better reaction times due to its higher speed
Still a sexy bird.
I spent half my Air Force career working on F-111s. I worked on both the FB-111A and the EF-111A. I enjoyed the challenge provided by the airframe to complete the missions it was tasked with. After your jet took off and completed its mission you knew you had done a days hard work. It was a very satisfying feeling. Fond memories for sure.
I worked F-111F until they were retired,
Totally a subjective thing, but to my eye there's nothing more beautiful than a 'vark.
I worked on the F-111 and here is what a engineer said the F 111 is built for war
I worked on the F-111 at RAF Upper Heyford (20th CRS) 1991 - 1993. Loved that old bird. The Aussies did a fantastic job upgrading them from the old analog MUX circuits to the digital age.
@@chadvarnell1889 I first worked the FB-111A at Plattsburgh AFB in the late 79s. Then the EF-111A in the last half of the 80s. I really enjoyed the challenge. Totally underestimate and underappreciated jet.
I remember the high level of anticipation during the ATF competition. My dad and I would sit for hours, discussing the program and resulting prototypes. I must admit that the level of anticipation now, is infinitely more than it was back then. The technology that’s currently being discovered and engineered, is beyond fascinating and I couldn’t be more excited, to see what our brilliant minds construct. You did a terrific job with this video, one can never have enough NGAD intel.
Thank you, and interestingly I had conversations with my dad as well about the ATF competition when it was going on. As soon as I get more info on the NGAD, I’ll put together another video - I always enjoy your comments and thanks for all of your support!
Looking at the f35 and how you can basically see through the fuselage in any direction with the helmet system. I can only imagine what this new fighter will be capable of
@@PilotPhotog 🍻
I imagine your disappointment when the YF-23 lost.
Hindsight is 2020. That aircraft would have been better
Lol wish I could have conversations like that with my dad. He always thinks he’s not smart enough and therefor has zero interest. Seems like that should only make you more interested.
It's hard to imagine that one day the F-22 will be seen as antiquated as the F-111 is right now.
The electronics systems in the f35 are already considerably ahead of the 22’s. It’s arguably the most important aspect of a modern aircraft.
We will have fusion powered jets before too long, it could even be a 7th gen requisite. Imagine, patroling drones and zones of available AI wingmen who can stay aloft for days or weeks! It seems to me though that you'd hit a maintenance limit because of moving parts, friction, moisture/water and temp changes?
I mean to be honest, it is already somewhat antiquated, at least in terms of information and sensor technology. The computational part which is the most important, the truly revolutionary essence of 5th gen technology, and in those terms, it is outdated. That is the reason why the Airforce originally planned to upgrade the remaining F22, but they cancelled those plans, because of cost issues and the reduced need because of the NGAD and other programs that fill this capability requirement.
The F-22 is about to be retired, while the rest of the world is still trying to catch up to it.
@@machdaddy6451 Didn't they just announce a big upgrade program for the F-22's that are in service?
The F-111 was a really good aircraft only held back by complexity and cost. With china looking like a likely future threat, just like in the previous cold war, that's looking like an acceptable price
The F-111 was a great bomber, when McNamara expected it to function as a fighter for the Navy is where the problem came in.
old man reminiscing 👨🦳 : the f111 was badass
kids who grew up with f15s and 22s 👶: dafuq
Any aircraft worthy of "Aardvark " is ok by me.
Don’t forget the engines, they really were underpowered for what the frame was expected to be.
Neither the airforce or navy wanted it. Unfortunately, the program was simply deemed too big to fail. Therefore, but had to use it. By and large, the F-111 was a huge costly failure.
One fantastic tidbit of the F-111 is they never had a top speed, but rather a limit by temperature. They were indeed fast. We've never replaced the F-111 really. The F-15E/X is in it's role, but not really a complete replacement. It would be fantastic if we could finally have a tactical light-to-medium bomber that could carry greater than 20,000lbs of payload over 2K miles, or self-deploy greater than 2,750 miles without refueling. We'll see how this plays out for sure.
Saw that temperature limit one time, @2.65 Mach accelerating
Sure, but it's conflicting these days ... as I've grown up, I've realized we really act like a bully in over 90% of the cases in which we use military force at all. Ironically, before WWII ... we had a dept of war, and we were much more reserved in our uses (as John Quincy Adams said) ... yet now, it's our "Defense Department" ... yet, we're always traveling very long distances to "defend" ourselves. Right now, we're "defending" a buncha NAZIS in Ukraine, after committing a coup in 2014 to expand NATO far past our 1991 guarantee in order to be RIGHT ON RUSSIA'S BORDER ... as we say stupid things like, "quit hitting yourself. Why are you blowing up your own pipeline you could just turn off? Why are you bombing the nuclear reactor you're sitting in ?? that's terrorism." ... and support KILL LISTS of JOURNALISTS...and lock up our own citizens for years denying them their rights to speedy trials or due process to an impartial jury in DC. We have gone NUTS. It's why Tulsi had no home; anti war democrats no longer exist. Partly bc the CIA spies on our congressmen and can threaten them to doing whatever they want on their foreign policy ... you cannot tell me that Obama, Trump and Biden all have identical policies / beliefs in Syria and in Ukraine ... yet, they all have to do exactly what they're told or else! Even the unwieldy trump fell in line and sent them ATGM. And here ... our TROLL FARMS we call journalists flippantly decide whether to run a piece on the Kardashians or Nuclear war. No big deal. Compare that to the reaction to the Cuban missile crisis ...? We used to have people who took their jobs seriously. WTF is wrong with us !?
FB-22.
Replace the 12 Growlers and 24 Super Hornets left with 36 F-15EX.
@@johnshipman403 ... a bit like the SR71 ... but advanced materials and design enabled the temperature limited speed to be higher with the SR71.
All I can say is that I loved my "Pigs" and enjoyed his comment near the end that the 111's were very underrated in the eyes of history. I worked as an ECM Tech on F's and FB's during my career and always thought they were the meanest combat bird to hit the sky.
Thank you, William. I am very glad you liked the video and thanks for your service on a legendary airframe. Cheers!
Pretty much every new fighter has been the most expensive fighter ever. I just hope they actually let them build them. It's very short-sighted to stop building them, you just delay the need for a even more expensive replacement
I dont think that the NGAD fighters Would be expensive since yes due To it making foreign sales Obviously which can reduce costs Of the jet. Just like how the F-35 Did it litrellaly costed 337 million Dollars which is very expensive but Then due to it making foreign sales. It got cheaper. to around 80 million Dollars.
And the use of digital engineering Can cut costs and times.
@@ramirezyzz6748 it does incorporate research from the JSF program, but make no mistake, this will cost monumentally more than an F-35 even the first unit sold. The NGAD can be designed on a computer, but the truth is, problems that arise in the real world happen because the computer cannot predict every factor in the sky. What if the g pull in a turn caused air to leak in through a new hole on the fuselage and confuses the flight computer (example) another thing to consider is that it is stealth. The materials it will be made of and coatings baked in are very expensive to manufacture, the sensor package, the advanced flight computer that can probably Google and watch UA-cam screen shared to an F-15EX.
@Solar Warden the only thing keeping the world together right now IS our military strength. If the Chinese currency became the global trading currency, Europe and American territories collapse in hyper inflation
@Solar Warden I do agree with you. We have to change our ways as a whole and try to not have so much debt.
USAF fighter inventories are too old and too low. Need 1000 new fighters during the 2020s to be ready for war. NGAD is a nice fighter to buy in more limited quantities during the 2030s, after the war.
Australia definitely missed not having an option to replace the capabilities the F111, it gave Australia a long range strike and power projection.
The “ Pig “ was a beast and was a major loss to Australia
@@hermanmusimbi4337 I definitely think all F35s will be fitted with the new engine including ours, with external fuel tanks with a B-62 nuke bomb also the Loyal wingman protecting its flanks hopefully will be able to project out far enough to keep China at bay, and I dont see how Australia's airforce can help with the Tiawan situation without having a base to our north to operate out of or we buy F35B's
@@hermanmusimbi4337 the F35C already has a range of "in excess of 1200 nmi" on internal fuel alone (~20k lbs of fuel weight). Clearly the answer is an F35A with the F35C wing. Probably won't even need the adaptive engine to make range needs.
The,loyal wingman also being made in australia
@@stretchka111 I was talking about Australia's loyal wingman program
The F-111 was my favourite aircraft. The history behind the Aardvark and the Raven is something that interested me so much as a teen.
I disagree on the "too expensive for export customers"- argument: without the congress ban, the japanese would have absolutely bought the f22 - and with better economies of scale, perhaps it would have been attractive for korea, taiwan or israel.
So in the current geostrategic climate, I think an export ban on the ngad will be counterproductive for western security on a global scale. then again, this is the us congress we are talking about...
Japan is still trying to court Lockheed and Congress for an export aircraft that would essentially be an F-22 with all of the F-35’s avionics and streamlined logistics chain. There has been quite a lot of work done to establish the total cost of restarting the F-22 production line. Last I saw, they were estimating around $10billion US. That would be closer to $14billion in 2022.
I was under the impression that the F-22’s tooling had been scrapped once it was cancelled, but apparently it’s almost all still in storage. That said, with todays rapid prototyping and materials, there’s one school who is arguing that a clean sheet fighter would actually be better and less expensive, though it would likely take a little longer to bring to life.
Id love to see a twin engine F-35 variant. Two P&W F-135’s would easily carry an airframe that size to Supercruise around (probably higher) than M1.8.
We live in interesting times…
@@FloridaManMatty While I think an export ban makes sense from a national security standpoint, it's hard to justify given how deeply China has already penetrated our government. It is likely they will get their hands on this tech before we even field it. Most of what they have now is the result of their theft of US tech over the last 3 decades. We have too many corrupt and willing participants in their espionage schemes here now at all levels of government (including the IC) for us to keep anything secret anymore.
The technology in the f-22 was too advanced to export. Even to allies. Because if they crash the plane and it is retrieved by Chinese or Russian combatants then the technology is compromised. Makes perfect sense.
@@AlphaPackBoi I am sure that you are right, this was the explanation given then, and it will be the explanation for the ngad export ban.
However, I think that reverse engineering of super complex semiconductor structures is not as easy as just looking at it under a microscope. So, I don't believe russia/china/... could simply clone such a complex system just from a wreckage. So I already have my doubts about explanation #1.
explanation #2: the wreckage could expose weaknesses of the design that can be exploited by the enemy.
Yes - I am sure that is true.
However, that is also true if the us military crashes such a jet - and there is no jet the us military hasn't crashed in one way or another.
IMO, Ultimately, a war machine is built to be put in harm's way and must be designed in such a way that it can be lost without consequences - with some exeptions.
(e.g. one exeption being any nuclear weapon. losing nukes and/or nuclear reactors always has consequences)
Trouble is are you aware of the insane discount offered for such programs? Guess who eats the remainder. The American DoD frequently picks the pocket of our own war fighting budget and by extension the tax payer to arm our allies. The F35 arguably being the best example to date. 20 years from now we may know the actual cost.
During Vietnam 72 -73 Linebacker II, the F-111 was the aircraft for high value and SAM targets. They not only did the job no other aircraft could do, they did it day after day and went first.
I still have a great appreciation for the long development timeline for the F-111 and its great performance over many years. Seeing one up close and personal was a fascinating experience, especially considering the side-by-side seating configuration. I believe the only other fighter/bomber aircraft with this seating arrangement was the Navy A-6. As for the NGAD, I hope whoever the contractor for its development will be both transparent and HONEST with the Air Force since we all know that cost overruns are always inevitable. Another thing is that I hope the Air Force AND the Pentagon don't go about this in a half-assed way as they did with the B-2. Meaning, that if you're going to invest in the production of this very complicated air platform, then make sure you're able to produce it in sufficient numbers. While I totally admire the remarkable job that Northrop Grumman did with the B-2, they should have been allowed to produce many more than the 21 aircraft that they did. One of them crashed at Andersen AFB in Guam a while back, so now they only have 20. The same goes for the current Northrop Grumman development of the B-21.
The F111 was affectionately known as the ‘Pig’ in RAAF service and served much longer in Australia than in the US.
My last assignment with the Air Force was at Pease AFB. We had 44 FB-111s. They were amazing aircraft. Night takeoffs were spectacular.
My grandfather worked at General dynamics, consolidated many names from the B-24 through the F-111. Making $1.00 a day at a cotton gin he immediately rose to $.68 hr because of war. He said the terrain following radar was very good 2-300 ft zero visibility I hope it goes well. It must be a major step to trust an aircraft fast and low.
I worked on the aardvark from '80 to' 88 from Plattsburgh, NY to RAF Upper Heyford, England to Pease AFB in NH. F-111As to FB-111a to EF-111. I enjoyed the challenges with the systems. I did computer, ARS radar, TFR, HUD and doppler. Enjoyed the video
12:03 The last Add-Vark? 🤔
Fantastic video as always, TOG! The time you must spend on these certainly reflects in the research and overall quality of the production. My hat's off to you, Sir.
Wild to me that the movie “stealth” seems to have predicted the NGAD concept to a tee with their antagonistic UCAV, known as EDI.
The F-111 gives me memories of being out bush on Australia at the age of 16. A F-111 did a dump and burn over my head. When I joined the army reserves at 17 I found out it was doing a recognises training mission with the army . Basically hide and seek for the army and air force.
Wish the USN would've put the YF-23 on their flat tops! And yeah the NGAD does indeed look like a chopped down version of the Black Widow. Tempest looks impressive, especially if the energy return system works as well as it appears to on paper?
The appearance is only superficial. The 23 sounded like a very capable aircraft but it was projected to use a lot of technology that remained unfinished during the competition. Which, as the Zumwalt and F-35 have shown, can be very expensive red flags.
As for the NGAD, I guarantee it shares absolutely nothing with the 23 aside from the diamond shape. It makes sense they would look alike, as both designs focused on speed and stealth over agility.
Iirc one reason the F22 was chosen was because it was more likely/easier to outfit the the equipment needed to land on carriers.
@@caleb7631 I don't believe that's right seeing as it wasn't carrier capable nor has received any upgrades to allow carrier ops (hence the F-35C). While the YF-23 was generally faster and stealthier, the F22 was much more maneuverable due to thrust vectoring that was absent on the YF-23
@@subzerogH21 There was an F-22 designed for carrier ops it was just never built just like there is a carrier version of the F-16 designed but never built. Both were just modifications of the existing design.
@@subzerogH21 maneuverability isn't really as important as it was considering usaf usage of bvr combat.
Weren't the J58 engines of the SR-72 "adaptive"? They used different airflow paths depending on whether it was in take-off turbojet mode or high-supersonic turbo-ramjet mode. At speeds above mach 2 the airflow was diverted around the compressor section directly to the afterburner.
Yes it was like that
Yes. the SR71 was an adaptive Turbo-Ram Jet. I think this one for F35 and NGAD will be an adaptive turboFAN-Turbojet.
Who knows, maybe the high altitude recon SR72 will have an adaptive TurbFAN-TurboJET-Ramjet???
Yeah, it was adaptive but only for speed reasons and only in one way. The new engines are Adaptive in multiple ways, changing bypass ratio, intake geometry, cooling air and exhaust geometry in such a way that they can operate as incredibly efficient, stealthy or powerful engines, or a mix of the three.
I’d wager that thing is already flying. A love child between Lockheed Martin, and Northrop sound like a goddess of war.
The Air Force admitted the prototype has been flying for quite some time in secret.
Uh, they went and announced that they'd already flown and qualified the prototypes and were ready for production/acquisition like two years ago. The prototypes have already been retired.
@@Solnoric no no, not an X variant. A proper conforming test bird. A YF.
@@mikewaterfield3599 ahhh, so you don't know how they've been doing things lately. The prototypes now are basically production ready designs, not test-beds.
@@Solnoric given the extended development process of the 35 and the 22 and the fact that the 23 prototypes Grumman still has are designated YFs I’m not so sure that much has changed. Fundamentally X series are still subject to major changes to the airframe, Y series are effectively non final conforming prototypes. Avionics packages, fine tuning of systems ect. At a glance YF14-3 for example on display in Riverside CA is indistinguishable from the production 14 alphas. In truth she had different AMADs different transceivers, and unlike the production alpha no damn kapton wiring. Regardless of what Lockheed may claim Northrop is the master of stealth, and I see skunk works and bethpage in even measure in that beast.
R/NCD will have a field day here
I don't think the parallel are quite accurate (except for the ability of the army to go overbudget)
The NGAD has other platforms which are part of the program. It's not "just the fighter" but the overall architecture of platforms.
Which mean, they are likely more flexible in costing as it's not so much the aircraft which will cost money but the "Systems" of which the aircraft is one of them.
*Air Force*
The overall planform shown for NGAD reminds me a lot of the "Bearcat" fighter from Wing Commander 4 sci-fi game from the mid-90s. Also, the diamond-shaped wings have a heavy YF-23 influence.
Love how much research and work you’ve put into your videos.
Thank you I appreciate that!
Great video! I see that your channel is growing, and it should be. Well done. I remember that aircraft. I built a kit model F-111 that my father sent me for my birthday from his first tour in Viet Nam.
I was a USAF AGE troop in 1989 assigned to RAF Upper Heyford, Oxfordshire, UK ...Most of my buddies were crew chiefs, egress, etc & I had good friends who were Pilots & EWO's... I was assigned to a hand full of Ghost Gray Electronic Warfare EF111's Raven's... 2 years of supporting them & even chasing them to Saudi Arabia for Operation Desert Storm... My older Brother was 7 years earlier at RAF Lakenheath UK where he worked Sensors on the 111's that in 1986 struck Gaddafi's Libya in Operation El Dorado Canyon... The F111 was a monster... a marvel of a plane. They retired them 3-4 years after the Gulf War but I would not have wanted to support any other Aircraft at that time & miss that aviation history...
That NGAD looks pretty tough . The adaptive cycle engines are going to have a lot of bugs I fear , as with any new system . But , after you shake 'em all out , you're going to have one badazz platform . Great video bro , as usual , two enthusiastic thumbs up from this camp 👍👍
I don't think it will. If anything it likely will use the research and development that has been done for the B-2, the F-22, the F-35 and various drones stealth craft.
This bypasses a number of issues it would have as all the tech likely has evolved and matured enough for it.
From the testing that has been carried out with the adaptive engine it seems it is progressing well.
Regarding export options for the NGAD, there is one country where the F-111 is anything but underrated.
Just put “like a F-111” on the marketing brochure and the prime minister of Australia is going to show up in Washington the next day willing to say and pay anything for a couple of squadrons.
it is an ideal weapon for Australia, both nations need a long range multi-role interceptor option. And Australia has been putting a lot of effort into air combat drones, so maybe there will be room for trading tech...
Reminded of YF23 Gray Ghost I seen as a child out near Mohave as kid I still remember the sound as it passed by and my Grandpa saying wee bad
I was blessed to have a supervisor in the Air National Guard who worked on the F111. He spoke of this aircraft in respectful and reverent tones. It challenged him and I believe he was a better tech because of his work on it. The problems with programs is changes in one thing affect others and not all cost overruns are avoidable. You may not agree, but unless you see what the engineers fight, you don’t get it. The F22 and F35 were both criticized for their costs on the front end. If you want certain things out of an aircraft, you can’t expect it to be a free lunch. That airplane won’t fly!
I get the sense that the current generation of weapons programs are being developed with a sense that pushing through a good enough system fast with few if any cost overruns is better than trying to make a perfect system that never achieves its potential due to wasted time and cost. Goes for both the NGADs, the B-21, and the new IFV for the Army.
@@j.f.fisher5318, Mr Fisher, your point is spot on. The problem basically is a lack of patience. No one wants to wait for anything. Hurry up is the order of the day. You want a system at a reasonable price point. This is a tall order given the specifications each system must meet. There have been companies that have gouged the gov and they’re being paid back with less orders to recoup their research expenses. Hard to balance all the costs unless you can sell a reasonable number of units. If you had been in their shoes, you would think differently perhaps. I wouldn’t want to be in their predicament.
I ❤️ the F-111 and I wish they made a stealthy version of this awesome aircraft.
More brilliant work from PilotPhotog!
The NGAD reminds me of the ADF-11F from Ace Combat 7. Even is going to have compatible UAVs just like the Raven
I can’t wait to see the NGAD Fighter!! It will be a sight to behold.
The concept around the NGAD seems really promising. The jet looks amazing as well
I`m most impressed by how seamlessly this aquisition process is going. I know most data is confidental, but it does seem to be progressing as a decent speed and hopefully we will have a usable platform before 2030. Much better than FCAs, which will probably be outdated before it ever happens.
Talking to my friend he was saying the fact that congress was largely kept out of the development preventing all the pork that went along with the f35. Along with the sacrifices and complications due to the b model that was one of the biggest reason the f35's costs ran so high.
I looks like they may be on pace to produce a fighter that will ensure American air dominance at a relatively reasonable price tag
As much as I'm annoyed by Pentagon Wars being so woefully inaccurate on the specifics of the Bradley's development, the overall accuracy of how defense projects get screwed up by the bureaucracy was right on the money, and maybe it had an impact. Combined with the recognition that Have Blue was on time and on budget (under, I think) despite being so revolutionary because it was too secret for the bureaucracy to screw with it. And that we are looking at a real threat to focus everyone on what matters.
Oh man, I do so love the Aardvark! Used to have a 3ft long model made from balsa and plastic with working wings as a kid, my grandad was the builder I just made sure to pass him his cup of tea haha!
Good overview video and most enjoyable, as a combat aircraft concept designer myself who worked on UK / French FOAS and F-35 all variants, I found the application of the trapezoidal wing of interest. I am currently working on a new medium bomber concept for a RAeS presentation.
Crazy how so many of prototypes look like the front portion of a F-22 !
Really great content! Thank you.
Don't tell this to the Navy. They'll cancel the project on institutional bias, alone
The last time the Navy aborted an Air Force aircraft from their carrier decks we got the best fighter to ever grace a carrier deck in the F14...
So if aborting NGAD means something akin to the modern day equivalent to the F14 coming out, then let's get to going!
Hell, I'll settle for an updated F14 using the F35 engines, sensors, and avionics! Throw in some quality of life changes for maintenance and FBW, and I think you'd have a pretty nuts aircraft! ;)
I really like the wing speed and stability wing plane form. It looks super cool too!
😎👍
My grandma lived near an airbase and saw Aardvarks almost every day. So lucky
Spent 3 years as an egress tech out of Nellis on the 111. It was a beautiful plane.
My grandfather helped work on the F-111. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
great video!
Still the NGAD looks like a YF23 with the tail chopped off. 🧐
We dont know what it looks like
@Craig To be honest, it looks like a big shovel from the back.🤔
The US needs to think about a hi/lo approach to the NGAD fighter. You wont be able to buy 500 of these, so start thinking about a lesser model that can be in the mix. The F15 had the F18, as did the F14 with the F18. The F18 was a less capable aircraft, but a little cheaper. The NGAD will be super expensive if there are limited production numbers.
I love any videos on the NGAD
The NGAD, based on some of the speculation I've heard about it having to carry a ton of fuel in order to contact targets closer to the Chinese mainland and it being more "quarterback" than street fighter, did remind me of the F111, but because of how large and heavy it has to be in order to complete it's mission. I want to love this program, but I actually believe that it isn't ambitious ENOUGH. Perhaps, I'm wrong and the Pentagon has us all fooled and will pull out something so great that we will have no other option, but to say "Master!" However, the projected cost, along with the rapidly changing battlefield/threats/theaters/etc, just makes me feel like they are going in the wrong direction. Smaller, smarter, more expendable, highly-mobile seems to be the way to go when you're fighting a force with superior numbers. Plus, maintaining the technological edge over China really shouldn't be that hard.
I think they are the NGAD program will basically be 1 aircrew controling 4+ drones
@@Aaron-wq3jz and on paper, it sounds like a great idea, but who's to say that the enemy doesn't figure out how to take out the $400M jet instead of the $50M UCAV. The enemy gets a vote, too.
That'd be the f35b, a vtol fighter that is relatively cheap.
@@rollog1248 Yeah, but it has wack range. Honestly, the US should just leave the region and let the Indians hijack as many Chinese ships as possible and watch China collapse in 3 months.
@Solar Warden here's an art of war lesson for you. The Chinese navy is incapable of blue water operations. If their cargo is getting jacked beyond the south and east China Sea, there is nothing they can do about it for at least another 10 years. No nation is more dependent on trade for survival than China. One child policy has made their (over counted) working age population terminal. They have a brand new super carrier....but barely any naval aircraft. Lol. They have proven incapable of designing their own ANYTHING. Everything they build (which is everything) requires a foreigner to show them how its done. They still haven't figured it out on their own. Discipline, Preparation, Logistics, Geography, Economics.... it's not looking good for them, dude. Building a long range, $400M jet for the Asia Pacific theater that won't fly until 2035, may be a bad bet. We already have the technological edge. It just seems our MIC is overly obsessed with being "invincible."
I loved the F111. They used to fly over where I grew up, they used to use the mountains and valleys to navigate back towards their airbase. They'd fly over at what felt like treetop level super fast. Sometimes they'd go super fast which was naughty because I don't think they were suppose to break the barrier over land but I thought it was so cool and they'd make all the windows rattle. They had a terrain following radar but sadly there was a crash once and I dont think the crew survived. F111 and F14 was just a super cool era. Technology moves on by my heart is with them.
If you're going to talk about NGAD, you need to specify which NGAD.
Both the Navy and the Air Force have completely separate NGAD programs.
Considering the fighter shown doesn't have a horizontal stabilizer boggles my mind just like the B2 Spirit.
Thanks!
The F111 was affectionately known as the pig in Australia. Because of the large size of Australia the F111 was the obvious choice for a tactical fighter bomber. We loved it and we miss it. The FA18 is great don’t get me wrong, but fold those wings back and punch the throttle on a Pig, nothing will catch you.
Great Video! The NGAD doesn't have any vertical stabilizers, which i believe would give it extreme Stealth capabilities, since there wouldn't be anything for the radiowaves of a radar to bounce off of.
According to articles on the fighter and other descriptions of it, it does have canted stabilizers for higher maneuverability. However they are capable of being folded down onto the wings when speed and range are desired.
@@firestorm8074 Ohh! Thanks for the information.
@@firestorm8074 I feel like that would make it way over complicated, and manuverbility isnt as usefull, how do you think the F-104 stayed in service for decades.
@@kousand9917 you do realize the f16 f22 and most 4 gen planes are manurverble
@@kousand9917 It would give it better stealth, and it does not need to maneuver much
I wonder how did you get the Fighter's jet shape, because I can't find a shape on Wikipedia.
GE demonstrated adaptive cycle engines for ATF. The AF selected PW, but then paid PW to develop adaptive cycle capability in the engine selected for the F-22.
Given the AUKUS agreement and the fact that we (Australia) have not found a replacement for the F-111 I would not be surprised if we bought a few NGAD - we do have a fairly substantial defense budget and the AUKUS thing wil hopefuklly allow us to aquire the tech. We may not cause a substantial price drop, but we would add capability to the US fleet at little cost to the US.
Hey wait out on the purchase until th Japan/Uk Tempest shows up. The Brits will give it a good aircraft to hopefully nearly match NGAD the and the Japenese will make it half the price, look better and pick up lots of export orders.
The mock up of the NGAD is pretty!!! Kind of looks like the proposed Lockheed F-44. The "vark" was stationed at Mountain Home AFB when I was in the Civil Air Patrol.
everything we've seen is pure speculation. Maybe it will look similar, or maybe it will be as close to reality as the various ideas of what the "F-19" would look like in the late 80s were to the F-117.
It's sad knowing I never knew the F-111 when I was a boy. I was born back in 2003. And I was 7 years old when it was retired
5:25 FCAS is supposed to replace the Eurofighter and Rafale in the *2040s*, not 2070s.
Since there aren't enough F-22's in service, and instead of building more 5th Gen F-22's, it would be better to build 6th Gen NGAD fighters to fill in the gaps of the remainder air dominance fighters that are desperatly needed. Therefore, building the NGAD fighter is a top priority for the airforce that must be developed. However, as a usual tendency, the Navy will probably end up developing a different variant of the NGAD fighter to fit in with their carrier ambitions.
Hey, wondering where you got the 3d render concept from? Is it sourced or made in house?
Good thoughts on the comparison.
Hi. While watching your video , you show an F111 with the prefix of UH. Well that stood for Upper Hayford in the uk. Well my Farther was the lead Avonics Tec sargent on those aircraft as he started in the early 60's until he retired and rewrote the manual for the Ardvark . His name was staff sergeant Jacob B EHLENBACH . He followed the F1:11 around the world doing his job
Hai...big fan....Can you do please do a video on how the FA 18 might end up with the Indian Navy and it's applications with the Indians...and recently the US senate is discussing the sales of advanced tech like 5th generation fighters and UCAVs to India.....what are your thoughts on this....I mean the growing Chineese presence in both the Pacific and the Indian Ocean has bought both India and the US together...
@@ilikesoccer5799 Wow.....I didn't know that....😅😅
@@dreamhunter2973 sorry that was mean. i apologize
Adaptive engines aren't anything new. The YF-23 and YF-22 actually trialled this kind of engine, specifically the general electric YF120. The technical term is "variable/adaptive cycle engine", whereby the engine varies the bypass ratio of the engine (the amount of air traveling around the combustion chamber as opposed to going through it). Additionally, Rolls Royce and GE had a joint development for the F136 engine, a variable cycle engine for the F-35, but it got cancelled due to lack of funding after about 6 engines were made.
So the technology isn't unheard of and has already technically been tested on the YF-22 and F-35, so it's probably not as costly of a development as you might think.
A study in 2010 showed that producing 75 more F-22s would cost $227 million each, equivalent to over $250 million today, for which you could buy a fully kitted out Boeing 787. So the price for NGAD seems to be in line with the only comparable fighter. Bear in mind also that the price per unit depends greatly on the number of planes purchased as you have to amortize the development costs over the production run. That's why the F-22 was so expensive - they cut production from the planned 700+ to 187.
The NGAD (whether Navy or AF) to F-111 comparison is a farce. One was a penetrating fighter bomber with AIM-9 capability, the other will be the air dominance fighter to end all air dominance fighters.
I worked with an avionics technician who claimed the air force did a project for pure speed F-111. Trailing edges burnt off supposedly they were fast.
I miss working on high performance stuff. Look forward to being told they can't tell us anything about it.
The JSF/F-35 program comes the closest to resembling the F-111 program imo. Both aircraft meant to fulfill multiple rolls for multiple branches. At least the F-35 seems to be more successful in reaching that goal so far.
I remember going through defense acquisitions training and the F-35 being a case study for atrocious overruns. I've been pleasantly surprised that the Services have turned it around somewhat and crammed awesome capabilities into it for the future.
I hope to see a video regarding the Navy F/A-XX NGAD
You guys remember how the aardvark was featured in Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy (my second fav boot by him after THFRO)?
Bedankt
Thank you!
A big element for US and Russian developement was the treaty ban on medium range missiles. With missiles having an artificial range limit, planes just needed their effective combat range to exceed the shorter range anti ship missiles. China did sign the treaty and developed missiles that can hit 2000km and out ranges any carrier launched aircraft without fuel pods or midair refueling, both of with increase detection and allow defensive actions. It means the opening salvos of China invading Taiwan will involve 2 carrier getting sunk by missile barrages, as well as air bases in Korea and Japan getting hit. The US Air Force would have to conduct longer range operations to hunt and kill anti ship systems while the Navy brings in carriers from other oceans. This could mean Australia, the Phillipines and even globe encircling missions.
The need for extended range ship based stealth aircraft is extensive, and larger airframes can just carry more fuel and bigger engines.
Australia would be interested. We're also interested in the much more expensive B-21. The key thing for Australia is we need a long-distance, super sonic stealth jet, because of our large country and the distance between the top of our country which is relatively unpopulated but close to other nations, and the east coast where the majority of people live (think Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane etc).
8:10 did they start maneuvering like that bc of Gs and determine this rolling turns are better than a simple straight turn? And if so, why not just tilt all the way right then turn right instead of rolling then turning?
The Light Fighter Mafia was actually right, with one flaw: range. We still need the capabilities that E/M fighters provide, and not just for air superiority, but also "air to surface" superiority, because if you really think about it, ALL threats originate from the surface at some point, and no matter how good your platform is, if it never gets off the ground, or does but is denied situational awareness, it doesn't matter. Precision strike is therefore a critical component, if not the centerpiece, of air superiority. The F-35 was designed precisely for this mission, and will do it well, but there is of course a need for a limited number of long range Interceptor/Fighter-Bombers to perform Penetrating Counter-Air, and Deep Strike. One sufficiently modular platform is perfectly fine for this, and much cheaper than two airframes. This is NGAD. A system as a platform, that can be optionally deployed as complete units for designated roles, and/or as components that can be quickly assembled as a strike package for optimum success against a specific target. This is where the NGAD platform will pay dividends on the investment, as engines, wings, sensors, payloads and pilots can be selected to drastically modify the performance envelope and range. Imagine if F-16 squadrons had F-16XL wings that could be quickly swapped out as desired. This is the level of customization that NGAD will offer, but with Gen6 tech.
Loved the ‘Vark. Although it’s not a fighter it’s a fantastic aircraft. It’s high cost per hour operating expenses and limited support in DOD for upgrades to its systems led to its early retirement
People are missing a HUGE problem with the non-US future fighter programs!
Eurofighter set up to happen again!
France left the Eurofighter program because they insisted theirs needed to be carrier capable, developing Rafale instead.
Now France leads their FCAS program with the very same Germany who they parted ways with on Eurofighter.
Of all the players, only US, France & the UK would insist on fighter carrier capabilities.
And the UK leads the other 6th gen program, the Tempest.
The carrier capabilities engineering are huge, the UK & France should jointly develop a 6th gen fighter, possibly get Japan on board for Izumi carriers,
engineering for carriers, especially STOVL for small carriers like Japan, is massive expense with huge range & payload hits that non-carrier based air forces will not accept.
France's FCAS program is probably going to fork best case, or fracture worst case.
France & Germany only got along in the EU because they could both hate the UK.
Unless Germany shuts up on performance & capability requirements, they wont be in FCAS, Dassault France will never give an inch on that.
For Brits, the Falkand War has forever changed their air power culture demanding STOVL fighters like F35B,
Japan is investing in small Izumi carriers and F35B STOVL,
Italy is F35B too,
there would be alot more synergy if France joined those 3;
the cost & performance concessions for any carrier operations are huge and what broke up the Eurofighter partners.
Its probably going to eventually be pieces like drone controls, avionics, surveillance & signit, engines, radars, licensed to each countries programs.
The F-111 was and probably still is the most advance aircraft produced then and now. Most aircraft produced now have on board what once on the 111s over 50 years ago. Being a fighter designated we could latch nukes on it for that ..." Reach out and Touch Someone". Slogan
Could you please do a video on how the F-106 was the grandfather to both of these aircraft? I worked on F-106, F-4, F-16 and occasionally the F-111. All excellent aircraft in thier own way.
Imagine seeing that you were being tracked by a plane at 70,000 feet flying at you at nearly mach 2 from over 100km away. Then you see that it just fired 2 hypersonic missiles at you. Despite the fact that you're in a 5th gen fighter you can't get through his jamming to fire back. You end up having to defend, and inevitably get shot down.
The addition of drones and loyal wingmen would allow for jamming, tracking, and data collecting technology that is too heavy to fit on the fighter to still work as a part of the fighter. They could also carry extra flares, chaff, and decoys. Not to mention missiles that are too big for the fighter to carry.
A team of 5 planes acting as one unit (the main fighter, a jamming drone, a search and track drone, a drone with mini decoy drones, and 2 missile carrying drones) when combined with highly skilled pilots, high speed, and high altitude, would be nearly unkillable. That's not even taking into account if lazers are a possibility for defending oncoming missiles. Evasion may not be in the 6th generation fighters playbook, instead focusing on staying aggressive and having the lazer equipped drones deal with the missiles. With all this realistic, and possible technology; calling it terrifyingly amazing would be an understatement.
That sort of jamming just acts as a beacon for a missile to switch to home on jam. All the current talk about jamming really makes it look like it's subtle and not meant to alert the opponent to the fact that he's being jammed, but instead make it look like there's more contacts and/or they're coming from a slightly different direction/speed/distance.
If it comes to that against a big player on home ground, a small faster more intelligent version of the US Genie missile will be invented to take out the fighter and drones.
7:04
I've heard people say that Congress would've been ready to foot the bill if the USSR didn't fall, I don't disagree
Curious to see whether it ends up being a 2 seat yf-23 (one seat to co-ordinate the attritable wingmen). Excellent stealth, range and speed, but less manoeuvrability as it should have a screen of drones in front to protect it
This just got me pumped to play U.N. Squadron and have an old man sell me state of the art fighter planes
🇦🇺 we miss the F-111 😥
Fun fact the F-111 killed more tanks in desert storm than a-10's.
what an aircraft the f1-11 was n still is n im sure if they coulda kept it here in oz it'd still be od tremendous use. I have 2 vivid memories of it, 1 was while i was living outside of coonabarabran nsw and our farmhouse marked the end of the pleasant ranges where the airforce often used as training and they'd do some aerobatics above us then head home n on one occassion, an f1-11 came screaming up, went wide turn, came back and it was like it hovered for a moment before its wings started to fold back and it hit the afterburners and was gone in the blink of an eye....the same thing with the 2nd event but this time here in wynyard tasmania and on both times i was left gobsmacked
Dude, the Tempest is a multinational program involving BAE, Leonardo and Saab, to which Mitsubishi joined this year. It has much stronger and wider financial support then just being "British and Japan".
The Raptor wasn't exported, not because of being "Too advanced", but because of being "unusable" and generally a failure: maintenance under operational conditions was technically impossible to perform. It never got out of the USA for prolonged times and suffered from the same crippling stealth coating the B2 had, except much worse, because of being an actively manoeuvring fighter plane. any scratch requires the full rebuilt of the radar absorbing "paint", or risk to inficiate most of the stealth performances of the plane. Technology was not mature for creating such a machine in 1990, but it served as a kind of bench test for the F35. The internal computers were also extremely obsolete after a few years, being based on old IBM G5 processors, submerged in oil to manage the incredible heat they produce: they were never good CPU, and ended up crippling the ability for the aircraft to be upgraded. This is the reason for the ridiculously low number of 187 units were produced (including prototypes and pre serie), despite the need for thousands. This is also why the USAF is still buying the F15 in 2023 instead of F22 (in service for 20 years), and why the moulds for the F22 have been destroyed.
The engine explanation, at 8:16 is pure BS: both the F15 and the A10 are powered in fact PURE TURBOFANS, one being equipped with an afterburner and the other not. EXACTLY the same design, a TURBOFAN, but with slightly different tweaking! 🤦🤦♂🤦♀
You probably should have considered the previous generation TURBOJET, much more suited and efficient at going fast, but not really that great for going subsonic where most of the times the plane flies. The J79 and the J75 come to mind. The "future" engine you are trying to describe is just an iteration of the GE120, mounted on both the YF22 and YF23 during the tender, which lost the contract against the PW119. The PW119 currently on the Raptor was a conventional Turbofan, but the GE120 was a variable flux engine, able to switch between Turbofan configuration at cruise speeds and Turbojet (closing the cold air flux to the nozzle) at high supersonic speeds. Once again the General Electric design was probably too advanced for standard production and was delayed.
The speed of modern aircraft is limited by temperature in the INTAKES, not in the nozzles, and this is due to the first stage of the compressor receiving shock waves due to the blades going supersonic at radial speed and due to the high temperatures developed by air friction. The SR71 overcame this by creating something similar to a Ramjet, a compressor less engine, at high speed, but there is no way (and no needs) for a modern fighter plane to really go faster then Mach 2. Even assuming the jet could go very fast (the YF23 was actually MUCH faster then the YF22), going fast at high speeds for a long time is really not advisable, especially with modern composite materials as the plane would literally burn by raw friction from the air.
The SR71, the Mig25 and the XB70 were literally big chunks of Titanium, to withstand that heat, which is not very practical for a plane which presumes to evade radars. Radar absorbing covering are also extremely vulnerable to heat and get damaged fast.
I've never seen so many wrong information in a single video, brought in by unsubstantiated assumptions rather then by dutifully researching the subject. 👎👎👎👎
Hope they put it on carriers too
USN already has a 6th gen program aside from the Air Force one. USAF is F-X while USN is F/A-XX
I always wondered if they could just shorten the F-23 a little bit and delete the horizontal stabilizers. Now I know. Looks great.
it's going to be much bigger. F-111 size, because it needs to carry a lot of fuel to meet the un-refueled range requirements.
Please do a video on the Sparkvark EF-111.
While I've thought about how the NGAD may be like the F-111, my rationale has been from an entirely different approach. I see the needs of what NGAD sets out to be a reciple for a plane more comparable in size to the Ardvark than it seems like most people speculate. Being in command of many "loyal wingmen" seems like it will be an impossible task for a one or even two person crew, so I'd speculate three or possibly four crew to be assigned to a single NGAD. On top of that, IIRC what's known of the requirements indicate that even with more efficient engines, it would need quite a hefty amount of fuel. As such, I'd speculate that NGAD will be more like the carrier capable version of the F-111, but also doubling as an AWACS/EW aircraft in terms of purpose, though the means of achieving the abilities of those latter roles being done by the drones of course.