This video is soooo much better than any I've seen. I hate Horsepower TV's video where they buy kits for everything and barely do any work. This is a clear and very well explained video. I learned more from this video than any I've wasted time on. Well Done!
This video makes me regret that I yanked the flatty in my 51 Ford in favor of a small-block Ford. I was afraid that extensive(and expensive) mods would be necessary to get respectable power out of it.
Love to watch Keith Dorton quietly and confidently build an engine... ANY engine. No wasted motion, no second tries, never a false move. A master craftsman at his best!!!
The adjustments to valves were actually much harder as the original lifters were solid with no adjustment bolts. The lash adjustments were accomplished by grinding the ends of the valve stems or by selective fit at the factory. The lifters that Dorton is using are aftermarket made by Johnson tappet company, also instead of using the cumbersome 2 step method shown, we simply drilled 3/16" holes in the side of each lifter bore to temporarily insert a small round tool through hole in the bore into the casting recesses to hold them stationary while adjusting the tappet lash in one step. Also as far as cylinder heads are concerned we used to drive across the border to Canada and buy their Ford flathead cylinder heads that were made of aluminum and performed better. Old school flathead guy
All true, save for the tappets: (lifters) Johnson tappets were hollow, lightweight steel. (and are, now in reproduction) The listers in the film are cast iron, and much heavier.
I was going to add that but you beat me to it ! I did up an 8BA from a '51 F3 and bought the Johnson Adjustables. I used an old set of vintage Offenhauser aluminum heads and a real pretty Edelbrock 2 deuce intake. I had the aluminum all professionally polished. Those engines are so pretty when they're done up like that !
From an old guy, radical modification to ford flat head, reverse flow, intake thru existing exhaust thru block, exhaust out the top, heating issues disappear, exhaust flows better. Use 6 one bbl carbs, huge fabrication required.
@@northdakotaham1752 requires custom cam, ( drag race) that opens exhaust valve on intake stroke, intake valve on exhaust stroke. The rest is fabrication of intake manifolds and linkage, zoomies straight up thru the bonnet for exhaust.
Excellent video. The old flathead engines really do deserve a place in Hot Rod history. Those engines were way ahead of what most other manufacturers had back in the early 30’s. Well done.👍👍🇨🇦
@@nerd1000ify Yeah that's not bad money. Especially when you consider at the time there were fewer expenses. you still had food water electricity possibly and gasoline if you had a car, But you would not have had a cell phone bill or a cable bill and a lot of the other tech related stuff that we have today. $500-600 a week would be pretty good money.
LOL, us too. Back in the day. I started rebuilding engines in 1954. That was when you could buy a fuel pump repair kit, and the pump wasn't in the gas tank. I have never figured out why they came up with that dumb idea. Jezus, what a bunch of useless work and expensive parts. Those sediment bowls come in very handy. Let you know if you have a dirty gas tank before the filter gets plugged up.
@@jamesgerard4505 when the mechanical pump goes out.... it can pump gas right into the oil.....(one of like 3 or 4 failure modes) . electric motor gets pixies and goes BRRRRRRRR look up the "carter p4070 fuel pump"...... electric and still mounted outside the tank . my 77 k10 has one.... works great for winter starting . oh, im 26 by the way.... got a 440 mopar to rebuild this summer, along with newer cars in my own fleet of ever long projects.....
@@kainhall Right you are about diaphragm failure dumping gas in the oil. I have seen that happen. They can also pump oil into the fuel line. Can make you think the engine is shot. So what I think is the fuel pump should be an in-line unit ideally with a sediment bowl on the input side and a filter on the output. But electric pumps in the gas tank? Have you ever replaced one? It is especially fun if the tank is half full or more. I have a Mountaineer, which is a bulletproof vehicle, except for the gas pump. I have had to replace mine twice, and finally figured out how to lower the large, long tank using strap tie-down gadgets over the frame rails. That works with or without a full tank, so you can slide the tank out after disconnecting all the tubing, and then figure out how to get the gas out. (The last time I did it, I was working in the boonies with limited tools.) So explain to me what the barking hell the pump is doing in the tank? PS, LOL, you are 26, huh? Can you feed yourself yet? Kidding, you sound pretty sharp for a young punk. At 82, I am still fixing my own cars, including doing a trans rebuild on the 2000 Mountaineer 5 Liter 2wd by myself. Works great, and it was only the second automatic I worked on. I like fixing stuff.
@@warrenkretzmeier7222 And water. Here's a mechanical pump problem for ya. Old man had a 69 Sport Satellite wagon with a 383 Road Runner engine (equivalent of the Dodge Magnum, tried to opt it with a 426 hemi, then a 440, finally said what the hell CAN I get in it, told a 383 hypo, done) and it developed a problem where it would starve for fuel under extended hard loads. Fuel filter, clear and new, new fuel pump, no difference. Looking lines over for crimp damage, fine. Tiny bit of pressure blown into the tank, flowed out the hose fine. It got steadily worse and worse to where it wouldn't maintain float level even at high speed cruise. Drove him nuts. He even went so far as to verify that the drive cam was still operating normally, and it was. Then he pulled the push rod and noticed something didn't look quite right, so he went and bought a new one, and it was LONGER. Ah hah! Took a while, not something we ever would have expected, but problem solved. A road warrior again. I remember once when he was talking at work about the fact that the thing was still pretty quick, even being a wagon, and a coworker said 'want to try it against my 340 Swinger?". Dad said sure, why not, expecting to get trounced. Long story short, the wagon had a posi and Michelin radials on it, when they were first out, and you absolutely couldn't turn a tire over on it, almost not in the rain, so it would hole shot pretty well (kept trying to get him to drop a 4:11 in it, but it drank gas like a baleen whale drinks water already, so no dice). They came off the light, and the wagon jumped him so badly that Dad's friend just lost it, slammed the throttle and went up in smoke, and started peddling. Dad said he didn't come by him til about 70, goin like a bat out of hell. Harvey was a bit sheepish afterward. Stop light racing (to the speed limit, more or less, it was a different time) the thing would trounce just about anything in the rain. We had times where guys in Corvettes or big block Chevelles and the like that would have destroyed the wagon in the dry, would pull up at the next light and refuse to even make eye contact, hilarious. And then we got the 289 hypo powered 1954 Austin Healy 100-4. Got asked numerous times at the next light if it was a Cobra (some minor resemblance, as it was bumperless). On that one, they almost always wanted to chat, usually starting with 'what the hell have you got in that thing'. Old man used to answer "a big rubber band", engineering nerd humor, long before nerd was even a thing. That one did have a 4:11, still had wire wheels (always worried me, especially since the splines would get really sticky really quickly on the knock off mounts), and a driveshaft about a foot long, which worried me more. Wasn't elegant, almost certainly wasn't safe, though we never had a problem, thank god, but it was damn sure quick, especially 0-60. Good times. We autocrossed it a couple of times. One the more open layouts with 'straights' you could get some speed up on it did OK. On the tight courses, not so much...lousy suspension geometry, king pins, wholly inadequate braking, etc did not compete well against Vettes, Elvas, Lotuses, and one off purpose built cars (this was a mostly engineering/tech club and a few guys went a bit nuts and built some pretty radical tube frame stuff, IIRC. I always wanted to make a killer fast go kart, maybe Kawasaki 750 two stroke powered or something, and take it out. I suspect it would have trounced EVERYTHING (especially since the lane width would have looked like an LA freeway, respectively, compared to a street car, you can really enlarge corner radii that way), but been relegated to a class containing that vehicle, and nothing else, if they even let me run it (probably would have, some of it was only marginally sane, like the one extended to the perimeter road, which was miles long, with no speed limit...again, another time) but maybe with time, who knows, could have had competition...like I said, there were a few guys that were just a bit too serious about winning, and loved to design/build (shocker huh?). My entry would have just been for a hoot, and to play with elsewhere. You can see lots of such karts on YT now, usually built out of standard racing karts, Margays and such. I would have just done mine a purpose designed tubular space frame (get out the ole torch, and circular end cutter, again). :-) I have a motor now to do a reverse trike most similar to the T Rex, but different (better looking, though that one is not terrible) and probably lighter and stronger (triangulate guys, TRIANGULATE, look at the best aircraft fuselage construction for inspiration). Cheers
Before automatic transmissions, this would have probably been marketed as "Makes shifting a breeze! Why, you'd have to be all wet to stall this modern marvel of cutting edge design!". If the engine is for a pickup truck, possibly with a small number of gears to choose from, and likely without creature comforts like Synchros, adding inertia is the answer that doesn't even need a sliderule, and everyone can understand it, from the owner to the mechanic, to the son of the plant manager that has to approve your drawings, won't accept extra R&D expense, and has no technical background.
I have had the desire to "mess with a flathead" for most of my adult life. Just because it is such an iconic engine and a part of automotive history, you know? Well, now that I've seen this video, I realize that it's a good thing I haven't attempted any such project because my knowledge of engines is seriously lacking. I can take apart and reassemble a modern V-8, but the details I saw in this flathead tells me I have a lot to learn. Thanks for the excellent video and enlightenment!
Man this makes my Ford 400 rebuild look like a walk in the park compared to what they had to work with back then. Mad respect! For both the attention to original details and sticking to stock principals.
I had a 49 Ford in High School. It had the flathead V8 with 3 on the column and overdrive. I put on twin exhausts with glass pack mufflers and some fender skirts. Oh, also had a oogh horn on it. That was a good running car and it sounded great through those glass packs. I traded it a couple years after graduation for a 53 Ford with V8 and overdrive. Those old flatheads were a smooth running engine.
The first flat heads came in 65 and 85 horsepower and had 21 stud heads. The 49 and later had a normal distributer on top. I remember the vapour lock problems on my uncles old farm truck. I should get it going as I've had it sitting here for almost 40 years.
My first car was a 1947 Ford coupe. I was 16 years old and paid $150.00 dollars for it. Rebuilt the engine and drove it through high school and college. Flatheads were durable and reliable engines. I owned several more over the ensuing years and did all of my own mechanical work. I was never left stranded on the road. I love flathead Fords and the cool exhaust sound they made with dual glass packs. I miss those simpler times!!
Me, too. My first car (1961) was also a 1947 Ford 2-door sedan. The car cost $165. Rebuilt the flathead and enjoyed it but later gave the car a 283 Chevy V8 adapted to the Ford transmission. Regrettable, but I did sell the flathead and it continued to work in a '40 Ford.
@@randykelso4079 Still have a Flathead Ford and a Merc. both the second generation (49-53) Tough and still run great. Sound fine with cheap long lasting Thrush Glass packs.
My first car was a '49 Custom Tudor V8 overdrive. Got it when i was 13 (1973 ) dad and I did the brakes exhaust and everything to get it to pass the safety inspection at the time. Then when I was 15 pulled the motor had it remanufactured by Ford and installed it. Drove it as a daily driver till 1985! In stock form the are quiet as a sewing machine too, A switch on the overdrive broke so I bypassed it with a toggle , could split shift all 3 gears Had a lot of fun surprising guys as it was a lot faster than they expected for a 30 year old car !
In 1975 I bought a 1950 F-1 for $75 from an old farmer in Kentucky. Was a friend's grandpa that we helped to bring in tobacco and sweet corn crops when in younger (rode the Monon from Chicago to there and back). It was safe to drive but laid down a smoke screen as I drove it back to Chicago. At the time I worked with an older man that was famous for building hi-performance 239's back in the day and still did that along with the "modern" engines for dragsters. He offered to rebuild the engine for $300 + parts, which included pick up and delivery so jumped on the offer. He had me come over two weeks later and fired up the engine while sitting on the floor of his shop! Paid him $400 before we loaded it to take to my garage. Got it installed and a week later, got a flyer from Job Lot Ford in Queens Village, NYC about a sale of new crated 239's from WW2 that they bought at a government warehouse auction. A huge cache was found in the back of the warehouse that could still be shipped so were being sold for $300 which included shipping. Job Lot said they were still in perfect condition and only needed the cosmoline washed off, a carburetor and generator bolted on then fresh oil and coolant to run. Gave the flyer to my co-worker who bought 5 to resell later. I drove it down to Texas in 1977 and sold it for $1600 thanks to the wad of receipts I kept in an envelope. The buyer finished up the restoration and used it as a daily driver to work for the next 20 years. Last saw him with the truck at a classic car meet in 2007 where he said the only stuff that needed work over the years was rebuilding the water pumps, carburetor and brake master & wheel cylinders. A few months ago I saw a 1953 F-1 for sale outside a local business. It ran, was still all stock and in real good aged condition but the seller wanted $25,000 for it.
Being 80 years old, i had a number of flatheads back in the 50's and early 60's. until chevy came out with a v-8 in 55 the flathead was king.. my first car was a 48 ford 2 dr sedan with a big back seat...lol.
I'm only 55, but first vehicle was a 1954 Mercury 3/4 ton Dad used it in the North and hauled grain in it. Shovel it full, drive to town. Truck is still at the farm.
They’re still pretty cool in my opinion. Those and the Chevy W block are my favorite engines. The first car I remember riding in was my dad’s 49 Mercury. I was born in 1952 so this would have been around 1957 or 58. To him it was just an old car (he wasn’t a car guy) but I always loved that car. He kept it until 1967 when we moved across the country. By then it didn’t run anymore. It sat in our backyard for several years. I was very sad watching the tow truck haul it away. I’ve always wanted one. I wonder where that one is now. I hope it didn’t go to the crusher. I’d like to think that it went to a good home where someone cares about it.
@@zosxavius for sure. The model A 4 banger didn't even have a counter balanced crankshaft. And it was a non pressurized oil system. It didn't have an oil pump. And early model As didn't have a waterpump. Lol
Well the early blocks only had 21... As for Model A's not having Water Pumps... The Only Ford's I saw without Water Pumps were thru 1927 Model-T's. - In late 28 when the A came out with its more powerful engine and REAL 3 speed transmission (though the first clutch was weird) they had water pumps...
@@misters2837 The Model T used Thermosyphon circulation. Water heated up and flowed to the top of the radiator. It flowed through the radiator by gravity, and back into the block.
Outstanding video. You guys covered what most leave out. Very interesting stuff. Thank you. So glad that there is folks out there that still know flatheads and how to build them. My grandfather had a 50 Ford Crestliner 2 door with a V-8 Flathead and 3 on the tree. Blue with gray & red int. Very cool. Wish we still had it.
Thanks for the kind words! Kind of sad to think how nobody realized just how cool cars like that would become. Back then they were just old junk and scrapped.
Had a fifty Ford back in 1958. Two door V-8 Fenton alum heads Fenton alum intake man. Twin Stromberg 97 carbs and a set of steel headers and a mild Isky cam. Three on the tree. It was cheap, easy to work on. Loved it.
These old engines were fun to work on, when I was in my teenage years. A guy down the street raced in the old ARCA hard top division and ran a 52 ford with a Mercury big block in it that I helped work on. It was highly modified and would run with Chevy 283's and 327's all day long. This particular engine uses earlier tech and so not quite as strong. Still, Wow what a great video. I'm 74 and you just took me down memory lane to a time when I learned about auto mechanics. Thanks.;-)
So interesting to see how Ford did things differently in the early days. These were before my time and from the looks of things here learning how these work wouldn't be of much use on a more modern engine but it does make you appreciate the early mechanics.
I love my flathead V8. No rocker arms clacking makes it quiet and smooth. Idles smoothly at 400 RPM. I need this guy to rebuild it though. He's amazing!
Bought my 48 coupe from a wrecking yard for $75. Grandpa owned Mears Auto and Machine Shop so I had an advantage over most 16 year olds because I worked in the shop. Some great surprizes on the teardown was trying to get the two water pumps off the block. I took all the bolts out of the pump and started banging on the housing to loosen them up - they wouldn't come off so I beat some more. Grandpa heard me and came back to see what I was doing. The first thing he asked was "did you get all the bolts our?" Yes. He handed me a flashlight and told me to look down the throat of the waterpump hose connections. There was a large bolt in each one of them. LOL The rest of the maching was done by me - Including a sleve for the number six hole. Grandpa went to the old storage shed and brought back a set of new (Old Stock) pistons, adjustable lifters and an aluminum two carb intake manifold. Wow, What a great experience with my granpops. Since he had been in business since the 30's he had the rest of the parts in stock. It turned out to be the best High School car a young man could have.
The head of the bolt in the water pump inlet was 5/8" but they rusted away after a while, I think that's why socket sets at that time included a 19/32" socket' which you sometimes needed to remove that bolt!
Yeah, what's with Ford and their water pumps? 429/460 pump with a spacer, a backing plate, then the pump held on with at least 27 bolts in 33 different lengths!😆😁
Splendid video!! My first car was a '40 Ford convertible. Brings back memories of things like: the 5 bladed fan mounted on the generator pulley... lost a fan blade once at road speed and the imbalance created broke the generator bracket which then allowed the remainder of the fan/generator assembly to fall into the radiator (ouch! severe damage)... milling the flywheel down some to give faster acceleration... the availability of a fuel pump push rod extension cap to restore full stroke when things wore down... plugging the heat riser ports (made for louder exhaust) by welding pennies in the block or using shim stock... fighting the vapor lock problem due to running the added left-side tailpipe too close to the fuel line that was also on that side... running twin "Smitties" which were steel pack straight through mufflers that sounded great... And lots more things that would likely bore you to tears. I'll close by adding that the old rag top was a real "babe magnet" and well utilized by this 85 year old fart who was a 15 year old boy in 1951 and always had lots of passengers, front seat and back! Thank you Horsepower Monster! Tonight I'll dream of when 100 horsepower was a big mill, barking the tires when shifting to second proved you had the right stuff and the girls were cute as could be. ‹(•¿•)›
First of all many thanks and respect for Keith Dortonj work. I can only imagine meet this kind of proffessional engine mechanic, and watch how he do the job. As an owner of prewar `39 inline six Mercedes i feel lack of pro`s who can help with restoration project like this in Russia. Thank you for video and sorry for my english )
I love seeing old guys still getting after it. Love flatheads too. I remember when I finally thought about why pushrod engines were called overhead valve lol.
Good ol' Flatties, gotta love 'em! They say that when this world ends only 3 man-made machines will still be running - Flattie V8s, Chevy smallblocks and Mopar 318s, tho some say the Slant-Six will outlive them all
In about 1964 ...I was 14 I had a 41 Ford pickup. My dad was a long time mechanic and he came up with a tired 59ab engine for it. He put in new rings and thats about it. I was in flathead heaven at that time. Those flatheads have some inherent problems they were born with. They run hot and vapor lock a lot. They love to burn exhaust valves but they do have a unique and great sound to them. .Dad always adjusted the valves a bit loose to try and prevent them from burning....they clicked and clacked just a bit.
Excellent write up, given the fact that you could go on about the intricacies of Flatheads for hours! I'm in the process of building a Lincoln HV-12 (the Flathead, of course) that shares similarity with the V8s. Still determining what the final configuration will be as it basically costs 2-3 times as much to make half the horsepower, but that's the price we pay to retain the Godfather of all production engines! I bought a '39 Zephyr a few weeks ago, and have decided to keep the HV-12 instead of going with a 385 Series Big Block. I figure the V-12 is something I can always swap into another car if I decide to modernize the Zephyr, and whatever I invest in the HV-12 engine will surely hold its value. No, they are not capable of gobs of power, but ya gotta figure in the "cool" factor! Hat's off to 'Ole Henry!
I had a 1950 Ford coupe in 1962. Put in a '52 Merc (255 cubes) engine from a local junk yard. I paid the guy $15 and he delivered to my buddy's garage!
I have N series Ford tractors so this engine looks fully normal to me. Those valve lifters are actually the more advanced rotating type. The tractor engines were basically just half of this one.
its for draining cold oil, old oil didn't have stabilizers in it and got very thick when cold, worse than honey, that large opening allowed cold oil to drain in a timely fashion.
Back in the 80's, a friend of mine, on older Machinist, had a Flathead in a coup and I think it was a 39. Th installed a turbo with a waist gate that gave him about 7-8 lb. of boost. He said it crawled over the hills great. Cool guy! RIP Ray Goodrich!
appreciate all the torque specs and bore/stroke numbers. I'm a numbers person. great video was raised around these things. lotta time under the hood. great video.
My 52 Ford Ambulance snapped the fuel pump rod 225 miles from home back in 71. By using a copper line direct to the carburetor, and my buddy holding a gas can in the window, we made it to 14 miles from home, then blew a head gasket. What a trip!
Same thing happened to us in Pasadena; Ran a hose to the carb through the fire wall put a funnel in the hose and poured gas into it from a beer bottle and drove seven miles home.
Brings back memories....had about 4- 5 early Ford cars...all flat heads...even had a 2 door partial glass roof ..i used mostly the 255 merc.version..had one with highlift cam,2 carb intake,made headers..1950 coupe..it rotated rims inside the tires ..welded diff..would have been early 60's...shocked a lot of rodders...cheers..!
its good to learn that about the rope seal. its the route I took and always preferred rope seals on other applications. you have to be sure and leave about a paper thick sized amount and not cut them flush or they wont seal right either.
A friend of mine had a chopped 'n channelled 32 roadster with 24 stud with all the candy on it. We met him at a rod run one time, & just as he got into town the motor started to miss. After setting up camp he started diagnosing & found a cylinder with no compression. After removing the cylinder head he found a broken exhaust seat. After removing the old seat he bumped the starter to clean & check the bore & the damn thing started & idled! We were amazed! The old boy couldn't help himself, he jumped into his roadster & spent half the afternoon doing short trips round the campsite showing off his V8 that only needed 1 head to run! To my knowledge, the side valve is the only V8 capable of this feat.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster with the crank weights,id be stripping 50 lb off that f/wheel,or get a new one cnc,d. 1300 f/w on a 1600 ford. or make a 2 lt pinto f/w into a dinner plate. 2 lt pinto,shave 100 th off head & bore. same off crank. = 2.1 lt. 190 kw.. go get a 351c,with 302c heads.. big cam.. nothing else needed.
Sure brought back memories. In the middle 60's I helped my friend rebuild his 1951 Ford flathead. We used the same Isky cam as is being used here and added headers and aluminum "Denver Heads" which raised compression considerably. It was topped by a Navarro twin carb intake with two Holleys(I believe) rather than Strombergs. We backed it up with Lincoln Zephyr gears and a 4:11 rear end. We had free-flowing duals with reversed glasspacks and a cross-pipe in the exhaust system. It was a sweet little '51 that was very snappy for what it was. The only thing I would change today would be the 4:11 gears.....with the good torque we were pulling it could have had perhaps a 3:90 or 3:73 and not have to have been twisted so tight on the highway. Great upload.
Tom interesting observations. I've got a '40 Ford pickup with a '42 flattie in it. Two '97s. Stock intake manifold with a 2 into 1 Almquist adaptor. Went to dual Fenton headers with Porter mufflers - nice rumble. Still has the stock 4:11 rear gears in the banjo rear end. Great for off the line and pulling stumps, not so great cruising at 65 MPH. Those flatties like it low and slow. Planning on swapping out to 3:54 and letting that engine rumble along about 3000 RPM doing 65 MPH..
well heard great things about those Flatheads but think someone once went with a Dual 4 set up and headers and claimed it worked a ton better but hey thanks for sharing this was indeed fun to watch
This is crazy. I'm building a Flathead in my garage right now. You didn't say anything about the engine using two water pumps (one for each side of the block). Also the two water pumps act as the motor mounts.
I learned the hard way to replace both water pumps at the same time, because they did double as engine mounts and you have to remove both just to get the bad one off! I think they were about 7 bucks apiece!
I had one of those flat head engines in an old truck and being youg teenager i took it apart and looked into fixing it. My father decided he didn't want that blanket blank piece of junk on his property so he sold it for scrap. I miss that truck, it was all black , no rust, and no dents and no broken glass.
Did it have a gravel box and hoist on it? I might have your truck here. The one I have is a 41, ex-Army. Pretty much complete but the engine is stuck, tires rotten to nearly nothing and the seat is missing??
Great build of a nice slice of history. It's always refreshing to see someone go with a (mostly) authentic rebuild rather than a "restomod" using a modern engine or the tragically common LS swap that everyone seems to love. Not to hate on the LS (it's a very good engine), but how sad would it be to go to a car show where every response to "what's under the hood?" is "LS"? There are other engines out there; try something different, such as learning to improve what was already in there from experienced technicians such as Mr. Dorton here.
Had a while to go before the small block hit the scene, Y block / MEL, then the FE, almost 20 years between the flathead and the fairlane v8, ie, ford small block.
My experience with a Ford flathead is just one. A friend and I went to the Salton Sea in his 1951 Mercury. It was hat, summertime. We drove onto a deserted beach and decided to do a little fishing. The Mercury got halfway to the water when the engine quit. What to do? We were stalled in middle of nowhere. But then I remembered something about vapor lock and the flathead would start to run again after it cooled. Fifteen minutes later the engine restarted. Whew! Five minutes later it quit, still cool. Now what? Long, long story and many hours later a man came by to help us. It was dark and we were a long way from home, just teenagers, you see. We explained what had happened with the engine. He smiled, shook his head and looked under the hood. Using the plastic end of a screwdriver he banged on the carburator fuel bowl. Engine started right up. He said that a needle valve of some sort often got stuck in the up position after being on bumpy roads, which was the Salton Sea beach we were on.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster - Skyler is correct. By the way, without the adjustable tappets, the valve tips have to be ground to adjust clearance. And I believe there is a break in the early flattie, 1932-36 and 1937-48.
@@hughstewart547 - The way the coolant was circulated was changed too. The first series drew water from the block. The lowest pressure was where the coolant temp was highest which lowered to boiling point of the water. This was reversed in 1937 so that the inlet of the pumps drew water from the radiator so the low pressure side of the pump had the coolest water. Less prone to boiling. Ford was able to reduce radiator size fort '37 . And there was the 3 more studs per head, like you said. Hey ! I'm a poet and don't know it!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Isn't Keith Dorton the brother of Randy Dorton who used to be the head engine builder at Hendrick Motorsports? Randy Dorton was killed in that plane crash with Ricky Hendrick.
The "adjustable" lifters were first introduced in the Ford 8N tractor; before that, the ends of the valves had to be ground for correct valve clearance. My Dad was a hot-rodder from those days; raced '32, '34 fords stock on half mile tracks until they blew up!
Yes, smooth as butter. And in the automobile version it seemed like you could do 90 in second gear. But shifting into high didn't seem to buy you much more speed!
My father had a 50 Ford with the latter day flathead, and I remember him rebuilding the engine. This would have been about 1959. He had to send it out for machining, and I remember helping him set that valve lash with a feeler gauge. The famous family story is that he got everything installed in the engine bay and reconnected, put the covers on and went inside to clean up. He got dressed to go out, and took my mom out to the finished car, which started after just a few turns and ran great. If you really knew those old engines, they were simple enough to be really reliable. But they were weird as hell compared to anything that came much later. TWO water pumps, anyone?
My wooden speedboat build 1947 uses an OSCO PHILADELPHIA Ford Flathead V8 year 1937. It’s mixed of old parts. I rebuild the engine with professional help, got the valves converted to unleaded gasoline... about 12 years ago. It’s still in use on lake Zürich.
Local guy raced these motors and didn't have the $$ for the tool to adjust the lifters so they drilled holes in each lifter bore to match up with the divit on the side of the lifters drop a finish nail in the hole adjust the lifters without rotating the motor over made it like adjusting a "normal " rocker
@@loboheeler the lifter would not stay true so I used locking nuts on them this save a lot of time and effort keeping them adjusted. a pain taking the intake off to adjust the valves!
@@shawnoshea3958 I have Sioux valve grinding machine in perfect condition in my little machine shop ( there is a video of it on my UA-cam channel: highwatercircutrider ).
I built a flathead engine in 1976 when I was 17. I ordered a 4 inch crank and aluminum pistons from "Speed-o-motive" in California and used Edelbrock heads and 3-deuce intake with Hollys. It was before the internet so I had to learn everything from books! Drove that '48 sedan for a few years but oiling problems caused it to turn a rod bearing and sold it 8 years later as-is before moving to Atlanta with my wife and kids. Miss that car badly. Maybe I'll do it again when I retire!😁
My 1938 flathead block (550 lbs) had inserts, not poured babbitt bearings. My 1940 Chevy 6 had poured babbitt bearings and hemispherical combustion chambers.
Fascinating video. My first thought upon listening to the intro was, why didn't the owner just get a second engine to build into his performance power plant. No need to compromise on performance and no future cost to change back to all stock. Presumably, he / she would then have a second engine to sell separately or with the truck in the future which would add value to the deal. I wish I was there to see the arithmetic.
I was wondering about that also. It seemed to get louder off throttle as the engine was revving down. Made me a little concerned that it might be a rod journal. Generally valve train noise isn't going to change in tone on load versus off load. He mentioned in the comment below that he was using a shotgun mic. And as he said those often will accentuate high frequency noises. Generally speaking engine designs like this with the cam in the center and the valve train all in the block should be mechanically pretty quiet. Possible to that after a little bit of wearing and a valve readjustment it'll quiet up a bit. I've heard a couple of flatheads in person and when they're running they are virtually silent mechanically.
After having overhauled thousands of engines. Most with rope seals i always remember what dad told me when both them and lip seals were sent "if you want it to be dry for a while, but cut a crank use the lip, ropes are SUPPOSED to drip a little, but they flush out dirt and won't cut a crank" lips are eaiser by far to R&R with the crank IN. rope pump shaft packings have adjustable tension. You never tighten enough to dry them. A few drips a minute for lube and cooling, but no shaft damage and you can add more rope in situ. People absolutely freak out over a drip, sorry, they leaked when new! . That oil film from leather seals, ropes, also protects the shaft, (and sometimes the rest of the vehicle!) from corrosion. Ive seen shafts rusted out from under many lip seals. One small pit and leaksville! Many pitted shafts seal with ropes. If you are storing inside more than running it lip seals because organics need splashed frequently or they dry out and shrink. So when im looking at old equipment i use the military classification for leaks, basically, stage 1 is damp with dust accumulated (run it!), stage 2 is dust with a drip something like 3x a minute while in operation, (run it but schedule a repair) stage 3 is oil washed off dust, constant drip or stream, (unless being shot at deadline it!). This doesn't apply if the components leak into a sensitive area like brakes or electrical etc. I actually like to see a little damp dust if it has organics. Means its set right, and isn't dried from sitting. If they do dry, drive it awhile and see if it improves. (Remember leather accelerator pumps?)
Great build. The air cleaners were a dud. There should be a good alternative that doesn't kill the performance. Interesting how the air cleaners looked so cool and promising, but sapped the hp and torque.
some people just drill holes into the sides of lifter journal; Then you can put an allan wrench through the hole, and stop the lifter from turning while you set the lash.
Very good video, plenty of extra horses to be had just by upping the compression ratio to suit modern fuels. The build quality and attention to detail was top notch on this, Keith is a true master engine builder.
Its not called a fuel filter, its called a sediment bowl. When I helped my dad rebuild his 1950 F-1 pick up. It was his daily driver up until 1998 when my dad had a stroke. I still have the truck but it is now a basket case (long story) I truly enjoyed your video. Hope to see many more.
great video! im 24 years old on my second flathead rebuild. The one im working on now is a custom ordered performance crate motor from 39', i get lucky and find the blocks that have been sitting in a field for 50 years so its a great time taking them apart.
This video is soooo much better than any I've seen. I hate Horsepower TV's video where they buy kits for everything and barely do any work. This is a clear and very well explained video. I learned more from this video than any I've wasted time on. Well Done!
Hey, thanks for the kind words! And thanks for watching!
This video makes me regret that I yanked the flatty in my 51 Ford in favor of a small-block Ford. I was afraid that extensive(and expensive) mods would be necessary to get respectable power out of it.
Ok o ok
Good guy GBG ç
@@TheHorsepowerMonster +q+
Love to watch Keith Dorton quietly and confidently build an engine... ANY engine. No wasted motion, no second tries, never a false move. A master craftsman at his best!!!
The adjustments to valves were actually much harder as the original lifters were solid with no adjustment bolts. The lash adjustments were accomplished by grinding the ends of the valve stems or by selective fit at the factory. The lifters that Dorton is using are aftermarket made by Johnson tappet company, also instead of using the cumbersome 2 step method shown, we simply drilled 3/16" holes in the side of each lifter bore to temporarily insert a small round tool through hole in the bore into the casting recesses to hold them stationary while adjusting the tappet lash in one step. Also as far as cylinder heads are concerned we used to drive across the border to Canada and buy their Ford flathead cylinder heads that were made of aluminum and performed better. Old school flathead guy
All true, save for the tappets: (lifters) Johnson tappets were hollow, lightweight steel. (and are, now in reproduction) The listers in the film are cast iron, and much heavier.
I was going to add that but you beat me to it ! I did up an 8BA from a '51 F3 and bought the Johnson Adjustables. I used an old set of vintage Offenhauser aluminum heads and a real pretty Edelbrock 2 deuce intake. I had the aluminum all professionally polished. Those engines are so pretty when they're done up like that !
From an old guy, radical modification to ford flat head, reverse flow, intake thru existing exhaust thru block, exhaust out the top, heating issues disappear, exhaust flows better. Use 6 one bbl carbs, huge fabrication required.
Learned about this from a dude who had a turbo one. It was mental
Carbs on the exhaust ports?? How does that work?
@@northdakotaham1752 requires custom cam, ( drag race) that opens exhaust valve on intake stroke, intake valve on exhaust stroke. The rest is fabrication of intake manifolds and linkage, zoomies straight up thru the bonnet for exhaust.
@@davidsample9130 bet Ford never considered that one!
@@northdakotaham1752 backwards ground cam. was done on nailheads too. look up tv tommy ivos nailhead dragster. i think it was reverse flow.
Excellent video. The old flathead engines really do deserve a place in Hot Rod history. Those engines were way ahead of what most other manufacturers had back in the early 30’s. Well done.👍👍🇨🇦
Thanks a lot! And thanks for watching
I cannot imagine the poor guy at the factory that had to adjust valve lash all day. Awesome build video.
they came with solid lifters the gap was set grinding the valve stem
Well that guy's probably dead
@KeweKrypto 12 now I'm wondering what you can afford with 5 bucks a day
@@ilham7345 Based on inflation, $5 in 1936 is worth about $95 today.
@@nerd1000ify
Yeah that's not bad money. Especially when you consider at the time there were fewer expenses. you still had food water electricity possibly and gasoline if you had a car, But you would not have had a cell phone bill or a cable bill and a lot of the other tech related stuff that we have today. $500-600 a week would be pretty good money.
What you call a "very cool glass fuel filter", we used to call a sediment bowl.
Sediment bowls let you see what kind of contaminants were in your engine's fuel. Good to know.
LOL, us too. Back in the day. I started rebuilding engines in 1954. That was when you could buy a fuel pump repair kit, and the pump wasn't in the gas tank. I have never figured out why they came up with that dumb idea. Jezus, what a bunch of useless work and expensive parts.
Those sediment bowls come in very handy. Let you know if you have a dirty gas tank before the filter gets plugged up.
@@jamesgerard4505 when the mechanical pump goes out.... it can pump gas right into the oil.....(one of like 3 or 4 failure modes)
.
electric motor gets pixies and goes BRRRRRRRR
look up the "carter p4070 fuel pump"...... electric and still mounted outside the tank
.
my 77 k10 has one.... works great for winter starting
.
oh, im 26 by the way.... got a 440 mopar to rebuild this summer, along with newer cars in my own fleet of ever long projects.....
@@kainhall Right you are about diaphragm failure dumping gas in the oil. I have seen that happen. They can also pump oil into the fuel line. Can make you think the engine is shot.
So what I think is the fuel pump should be an in-line unit ideally with a sediment bowl on the input side and a filter on the output.
But electric pumps in the gas tank? Have you ever replaced one? It is especially fun if the tank is half full or more. I have a Mountaineer, which is a bulletproof vehicle, except for the gas pump. I have had to replace mine twice, and finally figured out how to lower the large, long tank using strap tie-down gadgets over the frame rails. That works with or without a full tank, so you can slide the tank out after disconnecting all the tubing, and then figure out how to get the gas out. (The last time I did it, I was working in the boonies with limited tools.)
So explain to me what the barking hell the pump is doing in the tank?
PS, LOL, you are 26, huh? Can you feed yourself yet? Kidding, you sound pretty sharp for a young punk. At 82, I am still fixing my own cars, including doing a trans rebuild on the 2000 Mountaineer 5 Liter 2wd by myself. Works great, and it was only the second automatic I worked on. I like fixing stuff.
@@warrenkretzmeier7222 And water. Here's a mechanical pump problem for ya. Old man had a 69 Sport Satellite wagon with a 383 Road Runner engine (equivalent of the Dodge Magnum, tried to opt it with a 426 hemi, then a 440, finally said what the hell CAN I get in it, told a 383 hypo, done) and it developed a problem where it would starve for fuel under extended hard loads. Fuel filter, clear and new, new fuel pump, no difference. Looking lines over for crimp damage, fine. Tiny bit of pressure blown into the tank, flowed out the hose fine.
It got steadily worse and worse to where it wouldn't maintain float level even at high speed cruise. Drove him nuts. He even went so far as to verify that the drive cam was still operating normally, and it was. Then he pulled the push rod and noticed something didn't look quite right, so he went and bought a new one, and it was LONGER. Ah hah! Took a while, not something we ever would have expected, but problem solved. A road warrior again.
I remember once when he was talking at work about the fact that the thing was still pretty quick, even being a wagon, and a coworker said 'want to try it against my 340 Swinger?". Dad said sure, why not, expecting to get trounced. Long story short, the wagon had a posi and Michelin radials on it, when they were first out, and you absolutely couldn't turn a tire over on it, almost not in the rain, so it would hole shot pretty well (kept trying to get him to drop a 4:11 in it, but it drank gas like a baleen whale drinks water already, so no dice). They came off the light, and the wagon jumped him so badly that Dad's friend just lost it, slammed the throttle and went up in smoke, and started peddling. Dad said he didn't come by him til about 70, goin like a bat out of hell. Harvey was a bit sheepish afterward. Stop light racing (to the speed limit, more or less, it was a different time) the thing would trounce just about anything in the rain. We had times where guys in Corvettes or big block Chevelles and the like that would have destroyed the wagon in the dry, would pull up at the next light and refuse to even make eye contact, hilarious.
And then we got the 289 hypo powered 1954 Austin Healy 100-4. Got asked numerous times at the next light if it was a Cobra (some minor resemblance, as it was bumperless). On that one, they almost always wanted to chat, usually starting with 'what the hell have you got in that thing'. Old man used to answer "a big rubber band", engineering nerd humor, long before nerd was even a thing. That one did have a 4:11, still had wire wheels (always worried me, especially since the splines would get really sticky really quickly on the knock off mounts), and a driveshaft about a foot long, which worried me more. Wasn't elegant, almost certainly wasn't safe, though we never had a problem, thank god, but it was damn sure quick, especially 0-60. Good times.
We autocrossed it a couple of times. One the more open layouts with 'straights' you could get some speed up on it did OK. On the tight courses, not so much...lousy suspension geometry, king pins, wholly inadequate braking, etc did not compete well against Vettes, Elvas, Lotuses, and one off purpose built cars (this was a mostly engineering/tech club and a few guys went a bit nuts and built some pretty radical tube frame stuff, IIRC.
I always wanted to make a killer fast go kart, maybe Kawasaki 750 two stroke powered or something, and take it out. I suspect it would have trounced EVERYTHING (especially since the lane width would have looked like an LA freeway, respectively, compared to a street car, you can really enlarge corner radii that way), but been relegated to a class containing that vehicle, and nothing else, if they even let me run it (probably would have, some of it was only marginally sane, like the one extended to the perimeter road, which was miles long, with no speed limit...again, another time) but maybe with time, who knows, could have had competition...like I said, there were a few guys that were just a bit too serious about winning, and loved to design/build (shocker huh?).
My entry would have just been for a hoot, and to play with elsewhere. You can see lots of such karts on YT now, usually built out of standard racing karts, Margays and such. I would have just done mine a purpose designed tubular space frame (get out the ole torch, and circular end cutter, again). :-) I have a motor now to do a reverse trike most similar to the T Rex, but different (better looking, though that one is not terrible) and probably lighter and stronger (triangulate guys, TRIANGULATE, look at the best aircraft fuselage construction for inspiration). Cheers
The first engine I tore down in high school automotives was a Flat Head Ford. Thanks for the memories
With a 60lb crank and a 50lb flywheel, that thing is gonna have some serious rotational inertia!
Yeah, it's like hauling around an extra girlfriend, back when your girlfriend weighed 110 pounds.
@@anonymike8280 Yeah, I think she put on an extra flywheel.
Before automatic transmissions, this would have probably been marketed as "Makes shifting a breeze! Why, you'd have to be all wet to stall this modern marvel of cutting edge design!".
If the engine is for a pickup truck, possibly with a small number of gears to choose from, and likely without creature comforts like Synchros, adding inertia is the answer that doesn't even need a sliderule, and everyone can understand it, from the owner to the mechanic, to the son of the plant manager that has to approve your drawings, won't accept extra R&D expense, and has no technical background.
I have had the desire to "mess with a flathead" for most of my adult life. Just because it is such an iconic engine and a part of automotive history, you know? Well, now that I've seen this video, I realize that it's a good thing I haven't attempted any such project because my knowledge of engines is seriously lacking. I can take apart and reassemble a modern V-8, but the details I saw in this flathead tells me I have a lot to learn. Thanks for the excellent video and enlightenment!
Thanks!
going from 6:1 ish to about 8.5:1 is honestly really impressive thats a 41.6% increase
Man this makes my Ford 400 rebuild look like a walk in the park compared to what they had to work with back then. Mad respect! For both the attention to original details and sticking to stock principals.
nah
I could watch skilled craftsmen all day long... What a great gift to have! Greetings from Ireland 🇮🇪
I had a 49 Ford in High School. It had the flathead V8 with 3 on the column and overdrive. I put on twin exhausts with glass pack mufflers and some fender skirts. Oh, also had a oogh horn on it. That was a good running car and it sounded great through those glass packs.
I traded it a couple years after graduation for a 53 Ford with V8 and overdrive. Those old flatheads were a smooth running engine.
I've got a 49 ford pickup. Flathead V8 and 4 speed. Bone stock. People constantly try to trade me for newer F150's.
Love them had a 50 Merc, now a Ford, don't care what anyone says, I have a 302 Ford also but the flat head V8 is special for me.
My first car was a '54 Ford. Don't know how many times I engaged the starter on an already running engine, it was that quiet.
@@jaysee5688 Yep!
The first flat heads came in 65 and 85 horsepower and had 21 stud heads. The 49 and later had a normal distributer on top. I remember the vapour lock problems on my uncles old farm truck. I should get it going as I've had it sitting here for almost 40 years.
My first car was a 1947 Ford coupe. I was 16 years old and paid $150.00 dollars for it. Rebuilt the engine and drove it through high school and college. Flatheads were durable and reliable engines. I owned several more over the ensuing years and did all of my own mechanical work. I was never left stranded on the road. I love flathead Fords and the cool exhaust sound they made with dual glass packs. I miss those simpler times!!
Me, too. My first car (1961) was also a 1947 Ford 2-door sedan. The car cost $165. Rebuilt the flathead and enjoyed it but later gave the car a 283 Chevy V8 adapted to the Ford transmission. Regrettable, but I did sell the flathead and it continued to work in a '40 Ford.
@@randykelso4079 Still have a Flathead Ford and a Merc. both the second generation (49-53) Tough and still run great. Sound fine with cheap long lasting Thrush Glass packs.
Yep.....know just what you mean. 51 2-Door here.
My first car was a '49 Custom Tudor V8 overdrive. Got it when i was 13 (1973 ) dad and I did the brakes exhaust and everything to get it to pass the safety inspection at the time. Then when I was 15 pulled the motor had it remanufactured by Ford and installed it. Drove it as a daily driver till 1985! In stock form the are quiet as a sewing machine too, A switch on the overdrive broke so I bypassed it with a toggle , could split shift all 3 gears Had a lot of fun surprising guys as it was a lot faster than they expected for a 30 year old car !
In 1975 I bought a 1950 F-1 for $75 from an old farmer in Kentucky. Was a friend's grandpa that we helped to bring in tobacco and sweet corn crops when in younger (rode the Monon from Chicago to there and back). It was safe to drive but laid down a smoke screen as I drove it back to Chicago. At the time I worked with an older man that was famous for building hi-performance 239's back in the day and still did that along with the "modern" engines for dragsters. He offered to rebuild the engine for $300 + parts, which included pick up and delivery so jumped on the offer. He had me come over two weeks later and fired up the engine while sitting on the floor of his shop! Paid him $400 before we loaded it to take to my garage. Got it installed and a week later, got a flyer from Job Lot Ford in Queens Village, NYC about a sale of new crated 239's from WW2 that they bought at a government warehouse auction. A huge cache was found in the back of the warehouse that could still be shipped so were being sold for $300 which included shipping. Job Lot said they were still in perfect condition and only needed the cosmoline washed off, a carburetor and generator bolted on then fresh oil and coolant to run. Gave the flyer to my co-worker who bought 5 to resell later. I drove it down to Texas in 1977 and sold it for $1600 thanks to the wad of receipts I kept in an envelope. The buyer finished up the restoration and used it as a daily driver to work for the next 20 years. Last saw him with the truck at a classic car meet in 2007 where he said the only stuff that needed work over the years was rebuilding the water pumps, carburetor and brake master & wheel cylinders.
A few months ago I saw a 1953 F-1 for sale outside a local business. It ran, was still all stock and in real good aged condition but the seller wanted $25,000 for it.
Being 80 years old, i had a number of flatheads back in the 50's and early 60's. until chevy came out with a v-8 in 55 the flathead was king.. my first car was a 48 ford 2 dr sedan with a big back seat...lol.
@DD PN Ha ha ha great
I'm only 55, but first vehicle was a 1954 Mercury 3/4 ton Dad used it in the North and hauled grain in it. Shovel it full, drive to town. Truck is still at the farm.
They’re still pretty cool in my opinion.
Those and the Chevy W block are my favorite engines.
The first car I remember riding in was my dad’s 49 Mercury. I was born in 1952 so this would have been around 1957 or 58. To him it was just an old car (he wasn’t a car guy) but I always loved that car. He kept it until 1967 when we moved across the country. By then it didn’t run anymore. It sat in our backyard for several years. I was very sad watching the tow truck haul it away. I’ve always wanted one. I wonder where that one is now. I hope it didn’t go to the crusher. I’d like to think that it went to a good home where someone cares about it.
@The New NKVD Everything is for sale for a fair price.
I'm comin' up on 70, and well remember my folks' '48 Pontiac. Wish I had it today!
24 head studs; 3 mains journals. Lol
whacky, right?
Coming from the earlier 4 cylinders this was light years ahead of what they were making before it was introduced.
@@zosxavius for sure. The model A 4 banger didn't even have a counter balanced crankshaft. And it was a non pressurized oil system. It didn't have an oil pump. And early model As didn't have a waterpump. Lol
Well the early blocks only had 21... As for Model A's not having Water Pumps... The Only Ford's I saw without Water Pumps were thru 1927 Model-T's. - In late 28 when the A came out with its more powerful engine and REAL 3 speed transmission (though the first clutch was weird) they had water pumps...
@@misters2837 The Model T used Thermosyphon circulation. Water heated up and flowed to the top of the radiator. It flowed through the radiator by gravity, and back into the block.
Outstanding video. You guys covered what most leave out. Very interesting stuff. Thank you. So glad that there is folks out there that still know flatheads and how to build them. My grandfather had a 50 Ford Crestliner 2 door with a V-8 Flathead and 3 on the tree. Blue with gray & red int. Very cool. Wish we still had it.
Thanks for the kind words! Kind of sad to think how nobody realized just how cool cars like that would become. Back then they were just old junk and scrapped.
Had a fifty Ford back in 1958. Two door V-8 Fenton alum heads Fenton alum intake man. Twin Stromberg 97 carbs and a set of steel headers and a mild Isky cam. Three on the tree. It was cheap, easy to work on. Loved it.
Thanks guys.
its super to see an experienced engine builder work so carefully, it's not just bolting it together!
Long live Keith Dorton, he's a treasure !
These old engines were fun to work on, when I was in my teenage years. A guy down the street raced in the old ARCA hard top division and ran a 52 ford with a Mercury big block in it that I helped work on.
It was highly modified and would run with Chevy 283's and 327's all day long. This particular engine uses earlier tech and so not quite as strong.
Still, Wow what a great video.
I'm 74 and you just took me down memory lane to a time when I learned about auto mechanics. Thanks.;-)
Thanks for the kind words!
After 50 years as a truck mechanic I now know how advanced yet so primative these engines were,,Love the Video keep them flowing
So interesting to see how Ford did things differently in the early days. These were before my time and from the looks of things here learning how these work wouldn't be of much use on a more modern engine but it does make you appreciate the early mechanics.
I love my flathead V8. No rocker arms clacking makes it quiet and smooth. Idles smoothly at 400 RPM. I need this guy to rebuild it though. He's amazing!
Bought my 48 coupe from a wrecking yard for $75. Grandpa owned Mears Auto and Machine Shop so I had an advantage over most 16 year olds because I worked in the shop. Some great surprizes on the teardown was trying to get the two water pumps off the block. I took all the bolts out of the pump and started banging on the housing to loosen them up - they wouldn't come off so I beat some more. Grandpa heard me and came back to see what I was doing. The first thing he asked was "did you get all the bolts our?" Yes. He handed me a flashlight and told me to look down the throat of the waterpump hose connections. There was a large bolt in each one of them. LOL The rest of the maching was done by me - Including a sleve for the number six hole. Grandpa went to the old storage shed and brought back a set of new (Old Stock) pistons, adjustable lifters and an aluminum two carb intake manifold. Wow, What a great experience with my granpops. Since he had been in business since the 30's he had the rest of the parts in stock. It turned out to be the best High School car a young man could have.
What a cool story!
The head of the bolt in the water pump inlet was 5/8" but they rusted away after a while, I think that's why socket sets at that time included a 19/32" socket' which you sometimes needed to remove that bolt!
Same thing happened to me. Couldn't figure out why the water pumps wouldn't come off. My dad had to show me the bolts inside the water pumps.
Yeah, what's with Ford and their water pumps? 429/460 pump with a spacer, a backing plate, then the pump held on with at least 27 bolts in 33 different lengths!😆😁
The willy's engine had one under the carb was a 4 don't remember if ohv. As I had both . But I remember being fooled 🤗
8 lawnmower engines sharing the same crankshaft.
Kohler K241 for the win!
@@jerrystauffer2351 lol 😅 Harley Davidson v twin " a poor excuse for an air compressor".
@@MitzvosGolem1 honda 250 cc parralel twin needs to be revisited it can make more power
@@DeathracerXD yes Honda made a 6 cylinder 250 GP bike in 1965 won against Europe in Gran Prix racing.
Then look up Honda Asimo..robot
LOL, not really..8 lawn mower engines would have better exhaust porting..
I work the ford rouge plant here in Dearborn Michigan, pretty cool to see exactly how these iconic engines made their mark
I hadn't seen such a sturdy crankshaft like this. Beautiful piece of work.
Your best video yet, I love these more obscure builds and it's cool to see the inside of the old flat head v8. 👍🇭🇲
Thanks!
Yes more obscure engines like this please!
Splendid video!!
My first car was a '40 Ford convertible. Brings back memories of things like:
the 5 bladed fan mounted on the generator pulley... lost a fan blade once at road speed and the imbalance created broke the generator bracket which then allowed the remainder of the fan/generator assembly to fall into the radiator (ouch! severe damage)...
milling the flywheel down some to give faster acceleration...
the availability of a fuel pump push rod extension cap to restore full stroke when things wore down...
plugging the heat riser ports (made for louder exhaust) by welding pennies in the block or using shim stock...
fighting the vapor lock problem due to running the added left-side tailpipe too close to the fuel line that was also on that side...
running twin "Smitties" which were steel pack straight through mufflers that sounded great...
And lots more things that would likely bore you to tears.
I'll close by adding that the old rag top was a real "babe magnet" and well utilized by this 85 year old fart who was a 15 year old boy in 1951 and always had lots of passengers, front seat and back!
Thank you Horsepower Monster! Tonight I'll dream of when 100 horsepower was a big mill, barking the tires when shifting to second proved you had the right stuff and the girls were cute as could be. ‹(•¿•)›
Great comments! Love it
First of all many thanks and respect for Keith Dortonj work. I can only imagine meet this kind of proffessional engine mechanic, and watch how he do the job. As an owner of prewar `39 inline six Mercedes i feel lack of pro`s who can help with restoration project like this in Russia. Thank you for video and sorry for my english )
Outstanding workmanship and a very nicely explained procedure with plenty of close-up video. Thanks for posting!
Hey thanks!
I love seeing old guys still getting after it. Love flatheads too. I remember when I finally thought about why pushrod engines were called overhead valve lol.
The old factory footage is nuts. Every hole gets threads at once!
Good ol' Flatties, gotta love 'em! They say that when this world ends only 3 man-made machines will still be running - Flattie V8s, Chevy smallblocks and Mopar 318s, tho some say the Slant-Six will outlive them all
Ford 300 Big Six
would beat them all including your Slant Six!!!
@@larryst-amour1108 never saw the point of a 300, just put a 302 in it.
@DFB58 i really doubt they would. people praise these, but they had a ton of problems and stupid gimmicks. still neat though
In about 1964 ...I was 14 I had a 41 Ford pickup. My dad was a long time mechanic and he came up with a tired 59ab engine for it. He put in new rings and thats about it. I was in flathead heaven at that time. Those flatheads have some inherent problems they were born with. They run hot and vapor lock a lot. They love to burn exhaust valves but they do have a unique and great sound to them. .Dad always adjusted the valves a bit loose to try and prevent them from burning....they clicked and clacked just a bit.
Excellent write up, given the fact that you could go on about the intricacies of Flatheads for hours! I'm in the process of building a Lincoln HV-12 (the Flathead, of course) that shares similarity with the V8s. Still determining what the final configuration will be as it basically costs 2-3 times as much to make half the horsepower, but that's the price we pay to retain the Godfather of all production engines! I bought a '39 Zephyr a few weeks ago, and have decided to keep the HV-12 instead of going with a 385 Series Big Block. I figure the V-12 is something I can always swap into another car if I decide to modernize the Zephyr, and whatever I invest in the HV-12 engine will surely hold its value. No, they are not capable of gobs of power, but ya gotta figure in the "cool" factor! Hat's off to 'Ole Henry!
I had a 1950 Ford coupe in 1962. Put in a '52 Merc (255 cubes) engine from a local junk yard. I paid the guy $15 and he delivered to my buddy's garage!
I have N series Ford tractors so this engine looks fully normal to me. Those valve lifters are actually the more advanced rotating type. The tractor engines were basically just half of this one.
There is a Flathead V8 redbelly Ford tractor , never produced.
Turned Journeyman when 265 small blocks had fresh paint...
Did many inline 6s N 8s N v8s
Real nice for these aged eyes
Thank you....
I have two of these in the garage that I have to go through, I'm learning more and more
Ford 8n tractor had a big drain plug like that on the early ones. I guess they didn't want to wait around for oil to drain.
It also made it easy to remove anything that you may have dropped in the engine while the heads are of. LOL
It held the oil pickup screen
its for draining cold oil, old oil didn't have stabilizers in it and got very thick when cold, worse than honey, that large opening allowed cold oil to drain in a timely fashion.
Back in the 80's, a friend of mine, on older Machinist, had a Flathead in a coup and I think it was a 39. Th installed a turbo with a waist gate that gave him about 7-8 lb. of boost. He said it crawled over the hills great. Cool guy! RIP Ray Goodrich!
Not just first on race day! but first to everyone in sales!
appreciate all the torque specs and bore/stroke numbers. I'm a numbers person. great video was raised around these things. lotta time under the hood. great video.
Thanks for the compliment! And thanks for watching
My 52 Ford Ambulance snapped the fuel pump rod 225 miles from home back in 71. By using a copper line direct to the carburetor, and my buddy holding a gas can in the window, we made it to 14 miles from home, then blew a head gasket. What a trip!
Same thing happened to us in Pasadena; Ran a hose to the carb through the fire wall put a funnel in the hose and poured gas into it from a beer bottle and drove seven miles home.
At least a head gasket change in one of these should be no harder than a rocket cover gasket in a modern engine.
Brings back memories....had about 4- 5 early Ford cars...all flat heads...even had a 2 door partial glass roof ..i used mostly the 255 merc.version..had one with highlift cam,2 carb intake,made headers..1950 coupe..it rotated rims inside the tires ..welded diff..would have been early 60's...shocked a lot of rodders...cheers..!
its good to learn that about the rope seal. its the route I took and always preferred rope seals on other applications. you have to be sure and leave about a paper thick sized amount and not cut them flush or they wont seal right either.
Craftmanship at it's best!. A lost art I'd say!....awesome video
Awesome video, I'm definitely throwing it at the top of my stash for when I start my Flatty build.
A friend of mine had a chopped 'n channelled 32 roadster with 24 stud with all the candy on it. We met him at a rod run one time, & just as he got into town the motor started to miss. After setting up camp he started diagnosing & found a cylinder with no compression. After removing the cylinder head he found a broken exhaust seat. After removing the old seat he bumped the starter to clean & check the bore & the damn thing started & idled! We were amazed! The old boy couldn't help himself, he jumped into his roadster & spent half the afternoon doing short trips round the campsite showing off his V8 that only needed 1 head to run! To my knowledge, the side valve is the only V8 capable of this feat.
Did anyone else notice the "Chewed up" teeth on that flywheel ring gear?
Yeah, all the original equipment is pretty well used up by now. Thanks for watching
@@TheHorsepowerMonster with the crank weights,id be stripping 50 lb off that f/wheel,or get a new one cnc,d. 1300 f/w on a 1600 ford. or make a 2 lt pinto f/w into a dinner plate. 2 lt pinto,shave 100 th off head & bore. same off crank. = 2.1 lt. 190 kw.. go get a 351c,with 302c heads.. big cam.. nothing else needed.
those teeth were machined that way to ease starter engagemant
Ya it's older than my mom
Lol ya a starter and massive tourk. Probably haven't made a new one in years. Metal is metal
Great to see an old mechanic in action. This kids is how it's done.
Sure brought back memories. In the middle 60's I helped my friend rebuild his 1951 Ford flathead. We used the same Isky cam as is being used here and added headers and aluminum "Denver Heads" which raised compression considerably. It was topped by a Navarro twin carb intake with two Holleys(I believe) rather than Strombergs. We backed it up with Lincoln Zephyr gears and a 4:11 rear end. We had free-flowing duals with reversed glasspacks and a cross-pipe in the exhaust system. It was a sweet little '51 that was very snappy for what it was. The only thing I would change today would be the 4:11 gears.....with the good torque we were pulling it could have had perhaps a 3:90 or 3:73 and not have to have been twisted so tight on the highway. Great upload.
Tom interesting observations. I've got a '40 Ford pickup with a '42 flattie in it. Two '97s. Stock intake manifold with a 2 into 1 Almquist adaptor. Went to dual Fenton headers with Porter mufflers - nice rumble. Still has the stock 4:11 rear gears in the banjo rear end. Great for off the line and pulling stumps, not so great cruising at 65 MPH. Those flatties like it low and slow. Planning on swapping out to 3:54 and letting that engine rumble along about 3000 RPM doing 65 MPH..
Great video, i've allways wandered about the flathead v8 and how it was put together, great stuff, Dave from west midlands England,
Flatheads forever. Miss my 50 club coupe.
well heard great things about those Flatheads but think someone once went with a Dual 4 set up and headers and claimed it worked a ton better but hey thanks for sharing this was indeed fun to watch
This is crazy. I'm building a Flathead in my garage right now. You didn't say anything about the engine using two water pumps (one for each side of the block). Also the two water pumps act as the motor mounts.
Not al the Flatheads used the pumps for motor supports, for example the 32.
I learned the hard way to replace both water pumps at the same time, because they did double as engine mounts and you have to remove both just to get the bad one off! I think they were about 7 bucks apiece!
Yes the water pumps acted as the front mounts
its called a twin spinner..
@@martinhavens9916... The originals in 1932, did not.
Wow, that things nothing but a noise machine.... still that old school tech is wild, great video
I had one of those flat head engines in an old truck and being youg teenager i took it apart and looked into fixing it. My father decided he didn't want that blanket blank piece of junk on his property so he sold it for scrap. I miss that truck, it was all black , no rust, and no dents and no broken glass.
Sorry your dad was so impatient with his opinions, hope he was a better parent.
Did it have a gravel box and hoist on it? I might have your truck here. The one I have is a 41, ex-Army. Pretty much complete but the engine is stuck, tires rotten to nearly nothing and the seat is missing??
Great build of a nice slice of history. It's always refreshing to see someone go with a (mostly) authentic rebuild rather than a "restomod" using a modern engine or the tragically common LS swap that everyone seems to love. Not to hate on the LS (it's a very good engine), but how sad would it be to go to a car show where every response to "what's under the hood?" is "LS"? There are other engines out there; try something different, such as learning to improve what was already in there from experienced technicians such as Mr. Dorton here.
Sounds amazing...old school clicky clacky engine noises. That intake sound is amazing. And it revs up pretty good too!
I have seen a few but this work around improved rebuild is eye opening.
That valve adjustment is downright medieval. The small block that came afterwards is such a huge leap forward. A very thorough video!
Had a while to go before the small block hit the scene, Y block / MEL, then the FE, almost 20 years between the flathead and the fairlane v8, ie, ford small block.
They originally came with solid lifters. You had to hand grind each valve stem to set the lash. Now that’s primitive!
My experience with a Ford flathead is just one. A friend and I went to the Salton Sea in his 1951 Mercury. It was hat, summertime. We drove onto a deserted beach and decided to do a little fishing. The Mercury got halfway to the water when the engine quit. What to do? We were stalled in middle of nowhere. But then I remembered something about vapor lock and the flathead would start to run again after it cooled. Fifteen minutes later the engine restarted. Whew! Five minutes later it quit, still cool. Now what? Long, long story and many hours later a man came by to help us. It was dark and we were a long way from home, just teenagers, you see. We explained what had happened with the engine. He smiled, shook his head and looked under the hood. Using the plastic end of a screwdriver he banged on the carburator fuel bowl. Engine started right up. He said that a needle valve of some sort often got stuck in the up position after being on bumpy roads, which was the Salton Sea beach we were on.
That's a cool story. It seems everyone who had a flathead back in the day was in for an adventure! Thanks for watching
Such an amazing video like always! I learn so much everytime! Keep them coming y'all !
Thanks for the kind words! And thanks for watching!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster - Skyler is correct. By the way, without the adjustable tappets, the valve tips have to be ground to adjust clearance. And I believe there is a break in the early flattie, 1932-36 and 1937-48.
@@scootergeorge9576 yup. 21 stud on the early ones and 24 on the later ones.
@@hughstewart547 - The way the coolant was circulated was changed too. The first series drew water from the block. The lowest pressure was where the coolant temp was highest which lowered to boiling point of the water. This was reversed in 1937 so that the inlet of the pumps drew water from the radiator so the low pressure side of the pump had the coolest water. Less prone to boiling. Ford was able to reduce radiator size fort '37 . And there was the 3 more studs per head, like you said. Hey ! I'm a poet and don't know it!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Isn't Keith Dorton the brother of Randy Dorton who used to be the head engine builder at Hendrick Motorsports? Randy Dorton was killed in that plane crash with Ricky Hendrick.
The "adjustable" lifters were first introduced in the Ford 8N tractor; before that, the ends of the valves had to be ground for correct valve clearance. My Dad was a hot-rodder from those days; raced '32, '34 fords stock on half mile tracks until they blew up!
Those adjustable tappets were an aftermarket item.
I had a 1951 Ford F1 with a flat head engine. I loved that engine. I liked the way it buttoned up so cleanly and ran so smoothly.
Yes, smooth as butter. And in the automobile version it seemed like you could do 90 in second gear. But shifting into high didn't seem to buy you much more speed!
My father had a 50 Ford with the latter day flathead, and I remember him rebuilding the engine. This would have been about 1959. He had to send it out for machining, and I remember helping him set that valve lash with a feeler gauge. The famous family story is that he got everything installed in the engine bay and reconnected, put the covers on and went inside to clean up. He got dressed to go out, and took my mom out to the finished car, which started after just a few turns and ran great. If you really knew those old engines, they were simple enough to be really reliable. But they were weird as hell compared to anything that came much later. TWO water pumps, anyone?
Dug an 8ba out of the ground last year. Slowing busting it apart. Hope to hear it live again.
My wooden speedboat build 1947 uses an OSCO PHILADELPHIA Ford Flathead V8 year 1937. It’s mixed of old parts. I rebuild the engine with professional help, got the valves converted to unleaded gasoline... about 12 years ago. It’s still in use on lake Zürich.
Give those air cleaners to your competitor as a gift
No joke!
They remind me of the air cleaners on my BSA!
Other than splash lubrication, I think that this video makes me actually appreciate similar era Chevrolet engine builds more.
Local guy raced these motors and didn't have the $$ for the tool to adjust the lifters so they drilled holes in each lifter bore to match up with the divit on the side of the lifters drop a finish nail in the hole adjust the lifters without rotating the motor over made it like adjusting a "normal " rocker
Yep, most adjustable lifters had a hole in the side for a pin from outside the lifter bore.
@@loboheeler the lifter would not stay true so I used locking nuts on them this save a lot of time and effort keeping them adjusted. a pain taking the intake off to adjust the valves!
This will all be history soon ...well it already is! I can watch these videos all day.
Ford made about 12 million flatheads, I have two bare blocks given to me by a friend, plus a complete 1940 flathead in my shed, flatheads forever.!
I'd love to know which air breather they settled on. I'm having the same issue finding an efficient breather to fit my Stromberg 97.
Iam also, My 1940 came with an 85 H.P.
Ditto
I remember dad adjusting the valves on flatheads by grinding the end of the valve stem on his Sioux valve grinding machine....
Wow. It has been decades since I heard of Sioux valve machines. Very cool.
@@shawnoshea3958 I have Sioux valve grinding machine in perfect condition in my little machine shop ( there is a video of it on my UA-cam channel: highwatercircutrider ).
I built a flathead engine in 1976 when I was 17. I ordered a 4 inch crank and aluminum pistons from "Speed-o-motive" in California and used Edelbrock heads and 3-deuce intake with Hollys. It was before the internet so I had to learn everything from books! Drove that '48 sedan for a few years but oiling problems caused it to turn a rod bearing and sold it 8 years later as-is before moving to Atlanta with my wife and kids.
Miss that car badly. Maybe I'll do it again when I retire!😁
The first car I drove was a 49 ford that I put Merc. heads on for a drop more compression at age14.
The 49 Ford was my first car. I then stepped up to a 50 Ford convertible. I traded a 52 Olds engine for it.
My 1938 flathead block (550 lbs) had inserts, not poured babbitt bearings. My 1940 Chevy 6 had poured babbitt bearings and hemispherical combustion chambers.
Respect to this old man, who is a mechanic artisan
What a fantastic job you did. True craftsmanship.
It seems to me like polishing all the intake and exhaust ports would do a world of good considering the flash all inside from the 1940s casting.
Fascinating video. My first thought upon listening to the intro was, why didn't the owner just get a second engine to build into his performance power plant. No need to compromise on performance and no future cost to change back to all stock. Presumably, he / she would then have a second engine to sell separately or with the truck in the future which would add value to the deal. I wish I was there to see the arithmetic.
So we're not gonna talk about the constant ticking noise on the dyno?
It wasn't that noticeable in the dyno cell, I think my shotgun mic accentuated it. Thanks for watching
I was wondering about that also. It seemed to get louder off throttle as the engine was revving down. Made me a little concerned that it might be a rod journal. Generally valve train noise isn't going to change in tone on load versus off load.
He mentioned in the comment below that he was using a shotgun mic. And as he said those often will accentuate high frequency noises. Generally speaking engine designs like this with the cam in the center and the valve train all in the block should be mechanically pretty quiet. Possible to that after a little bit of wearing and a valve readjustment it'll quiet up a bit. I've heard a couple of flatheads in person and when they're running they are virtually silent mechanically.
Maybe got one of those valves a bit loose? With some break in, go back and check the clearances.
After having overhauled thousands of engines. Most with rope seals i always remember what dad told me when both them and lip seals were sent "if you want it to be dry for a while, but cut a crank use the lip, ropes are SUPPOSED to drip a little, but they flush out dirt and won't cut a crank" lips are eaiser by far to R&R with the crank IN. rope pump shaft packings have adjustable tension. You never tighten enough to dry them. A few drips a minute for lube and cooling, but no shaft damage and you can add more rope in situ. People absolutely freak out over a drip, sorry, they leaked when new! . That oil film from leather seals, ropes, also protects the shaft, (and sometimes the rest of the vehicle!) from corrosion. Ive seen shafts rusted out from under many lip seals. One small pit and leaksville! Many pitted shafts seal with ropes. If you are storing inside more than running it lip seals because organics need splashed frequently or they dry out and shrink. So when im looking at old equipment i use the military classification for leaks, basically, stage 1 is damp with dust accumulated (run it!), stage 2 is dust with a drip something like 3x a minute while in operation, (run it but schedule a repair) stage 3 is oil washed off dust, constant drip or stream, (unless being shot at deadline it!). This doesn't apply if the components leak into a sensitive area like brakes or electrical etc. I actually like to see a little damp dust if it has organics. Means its set right, and isn't dried from sitting. If they do dry, drive it awhile and see if it improves. (Remember leather accelerator pumps?)
Great build. The air cleaners were a dud. There should be a good alternative that doesn't kill the performance. Interesting how the air cleaners looked so cool and promising, but sapped the hp and torque.
KnN air filters from a motorcycle, with the re-usable filter elements, might be just the ticket.
The sound is unique. Thanks for a very informative video.
Thanks!
This is pretty much what I want to do in my older years.
Just get up in the morning, go out to my converted barn shop and build engines.
Cool to see the fuel flowing in the glass bowl and lines :-)
After watching a ton of Honda engine builds this was refreshing and totally fascinating! Norton is a true craftsman.
some people just drill holes into the sides of lifter journal; Then you can put an allan wrench through the hole, and stop the lifter from turning while you set the lash.
Very good video, plenty of extra horses to be had just by upping the compression ratio to suit modern fuels. The build quality and attention to detail was top notch on this, Keith is a true master engine builder.
Modern fuels? At 86 octane?
Its not called a fuel filter, its called a sediment bowl. When I helped my dad rebuild his 1950 F-1 pick up. It was his daily driver up until 1998 when my dad had a stroke. I still have the truck but it is now a basket case (long story) I truly enjoyed your video. Hope to see many more.
great video! im 24 years old on my second flathead rebuild. The one im working on now is a custom ordered performance crate motor from 39', i get lucky and find the blocks that have been sitting in a field for 50 years so its a great time taking them apart.
Thanks!
My favorite channel on UA-cam!
Very impressive knowledge. You can't beat experienced master machinists.
i cant help but love flatheads my very first ever go kart had a 3hp briggs&stratton flathead had some great low speed torque