Tormach Dual-Station Orange Vise Production Run! WW119
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Using a dual-station Orange Vise + Tormach CNC Mill to machine a production run of brass parts!
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Music copyrighted by John Saunders 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH
A little trick I have learned for fixturing multiple blanks that vary in length a small amount, place a piece (or more) of aluminum welding rod on the movable jaw. it'll compress enough to account for length variation
You'd be surprises but a lot of aerospace parts I've worked on are +/- .030. It might as well be a mile.
That Haas in your shop will be a huge force multiplier when it comes! The jobs you will be able to take on...I'm excited to watch how fast and far you will grow!
Areospace parts i am running right now have a couple +/- 0.001 tolerences. And require CMM every 10 pieces and full inspection report every 50.
The look on your face at 9:03 was classic. I'm sorry but it made me laugh out loud. Your expression showed exactly what you were feeling. I could feel your heart sinking as you waited for the snap boom bang or zing !!!! LOL!!! That was awesome.
I always enjoy watching your channel and I send everyone I know to you.
Keep up the good work John.
You are an inspiration!
All the best!
I love that you love machining and share it with us all! I truly cannot wait until you get that full fledged VMC up and running :D
About 6 years ago I got in to running and programming a CNC at work. We had no CAM software, I didn't even know it existed. I taught myself to do all the coding by hand. One thing I learned early on was to close subroutines and subprograms with a G90 call. This ensured that anytime I was editing code to optimize or fix problems in the program I could easily make sure the machine was in the proper mode (G90 or G91). It is easy to make mistakes when jumping up and down the page of a program with lots of subroutines or subprogram calls. It only took a couple of crashes to learn this was a good idea.
I also got in the habit of closing all programs with a block of code that put the machine in the default state when new programs are loaded to run, crashed do not occur. I'm not sure if Fusion 360 puts a G54 call at the start of all programs that aren't set to use a work offset. The software we use does not. So, making sure the machine is in G54 at the end of the program is always a good idea. Once you start working heavily with offsets I find it better to be safe than sorry.
I also run a lot of brass in my VMC. UNS C36000 or 360 brass or EN CW603N is known as free cutting brass. It has the highest machinability rating of 100 and is often used as a reference standard for machinability of other metals. Go Faster!! You can double (maybe triple) your feed rates when using a high shear end mill.
That was fun to watch John! You always make some enjoyable and informative videos. 👍🏻👍🏻
Dude! I didn't know you could reorder tools by clicking that on the post page!!! That should save me some time on the Mori since I do so many ops at once.
I like that philosophy of "If it ain't broke don't fix it"!! In my experience if you push pretty well anything to it's limits (if not beyond) then problems will occur sooner or later. - Just look around you at the natural world of plants, animals and even people and see many, many examples of this never mind machines.
I've needed to edit one of the posts in Fusion 360 and I've noticed that there is a logical check of the WCS offset number. So it checks if the offset is zero and if it is it makes it one(1). I assume this facilitates the work when there is only one WCS. If you forget to specify 1 the post change it to 1 anyway.
Awsome videos you make. You make everything very easy to understand. I have run multiple Machines from Hass, Mazak, Matsuraa, Okuma, to the 5 axis Kuraki Horizontal Boring machine that I'm currently running.
Finally something that can calm my nerves over this election as I watch the results come out!
I would like to do such things but the program is too expensive for me; /
Rafał Nie podam Fusion 360 is free for students and companies that make under 100k a year.
but it probably has some features disabled
Nope@ Appears to be full, even has 5 axis cam.
4:40 "this isn't aerospace tolerances" most of my parts go on the airbus a340 and a380 and the general tolerance is + or - 0.3mm, they are basically parts that could be fabricated but obviously can't because they're on a plane and need to be made of a solid billet with a certain grain flow etc so there are some really interesting shapes.
there are some parts that are a thou or less on every dimension but 98% of them are insanely open, just thought it was interesting to be honest because it surprised me at first.
wish I had tolerances like that on our aerospace work, +/- 0.003mm here :(
people think aerospace have amazing tolerances, automotive have much higher tolerances, especially with the likes of crankshaft grinding!
garyhowe88 is that milling too or a different operation? that's extremely tight!
+Limosical mostly grinding, but some milling and turning as well, all on a vtg, most annoying thing is in the real world application it makes no difference, as it's all clearance.
that seems like a real pain, i can't say i've ever had to work to a tolerance that tight, i don't think i'd be able to with our tooling/machines.
I've done work for Airbus, Boeing, NASA, DoD, NovaBus, Baker, McDonnell Douglas ... Yada yada, interestingly the tightest tolerances on a whole belong to none other than ... The oilfield. Kind of surprising to me, honestly. Besides that, medical work is relatively tight too, and dental, but that's largely due to the fact that +/- .03 on a part that's .02 in diameter or with .008 fins doesn't really make sense!
If this turns out to be a repeat job for you, you might want to see if you can get some hydraulic jaws that distribute the vise forces on all 4 parts. It doesn't take much gap to throw a part when you have more than two pieces clamped.
Well you're not wrong, but I don't know. 25 minutes to 19 minutes over 400 parts is a royal ton of time. (40 hours of just cycle time). But you make a great point though. If the cycle time gets too short, you need a person at the machine full time to keep production. But if you're doing something else during the whole thing, your personal time at that machine gets effectively cut in half regardless. The Tormach is basically just a 2nd Op machine. Great to use to load a basic job up and have it run for hours. Tool changer? totally worth it. Great video. :)
Great, you really showing how simple things are. Kip on
That vice looks useful as you get repeat ability with the jaws and you can make the jaws yourself which helps when your tight lol
Cool to see how you go about a production run.
NYC CNC
That will be a whole new world to me!
Awsome !
Awesome John, Great WW as always! Thanks :-)
7:50 what john is saying you don't step over a dollar to pick up a nickle.
That thing is SLOOOOOOOWWWWWW
Great
great
Also you should of had the parts turned 90 degrees in the vise....especially soft material like brass....
note you won;t crash the machine if you post to offset 1. offset 0 gives no offset in the gcode so it won't change the gcode. it will assume you are in the proper offset. so always set an offset in each setup in fusion 360 and you will never have a problem. i run fixtures with multiple offsets and constantly swap back and forth. so long as the minions load the right fixture for the right gcode file, the code always selectes the proper offset. no need to rezero between runs. makes it super fast to run batches of different parts.
TLDR
offset 0 and offset 1 are NOT the same in fusion. offset 0 will not change the current offset. offset 1 will change the current offset to g54.
Awesome john..
You should use a torque wrench when setting the parts up thei way you have better consistency from part to part on production parts
How about mounting the camera on the movable table to keep the part in the middle of the frame? I think the FF part is a bit hard to watch when the part moves around in the frame.
That sure is a neat little machine.....how much table sage do you get now since you have used the machine for some time because I noticed in the machine design that the x directions the table hangs out quite a bit from the bed...
Yeah, I heard that....
Why the hussle with G55. When you could just add it to the code into the end, to switch it to "default" setting.
You da Man!
I'm not that familiar with CNC equipment, and haven't been following your channel since the beginning. I am curious what are the main differences between the Tormach and HAAS vmc?
Gcode newbie here. As far as G54 vs G55 status, would it be possible/desirable to insert Gcode at the end of G55 code to switch the status back to G54? That way you'd always be leaving the machine in a known status.
This is cool. Can't wait to run a job like this. I'm a little unclear on what the op was you had to run to the blanks. Also,
which fixture plate is that you have mounted? Do you ever end up removing it?
Rick I know it's a year later, lol, but the blanks were saw cut on the clamping edge, so he had to machine the saw cut edges to make all the blanks effectively the exact same size. That way they don't pull out of the vise do to varying part lengths.
Could you try to machine out parts and assemble another milling machine?
Actually I'll see you next Tuesday as one of your students your in Vegas.
So I have to ask, why bother with G54 and G55 for this at all? I have been very successful in setting my WCS to one of the dowel pin holes in the bed of the orange vise and using it to machine all sorts of parts. When your cutting the jaws and the parts with the same WCS there's no need to complicate things with two different work offsets. Setup a "template" file in fusion that has the vise and a set of blank softjaws and use that as your base for anything you need to make in the orangevise. Its a very powerful and quick way to do things IMHO.
Because if you take two vices out and redo it later, it takes forever to set them up. Where with g54 and g55 you only zero each, done.
yeah man, whats up with using Clicksprings music?
I'm no machinist and this might be a stupid idea, but is there any reason that that the stock needs to be separate pieces in the first place?
Would it not be easier (holding wise) to machine 4 profiles from a single block, then flip it over into a set of jaws machined to hold the individual parts (even though they're still attached by the base material to begin with they would separate as the excess material from the backside is cut away)
Daryl Ball that's how I machine high production runs one blank multiple parts as long as you hold most of the part in the second vice there not gonna fly
Toms Tiny Shop if it's a rigid set up I'll rough the backside down .02 then it's pretty thin and cuts away but looking at this second vice on this video they are pretty far apart so in this case I would try and keep the pressure pushing in to the vice I normally only leave the endmill width + some so if I'm using a .375 em I'll end up .400 for easy math I'm a hand programmer none of that fancy cam software. If you can on the first op try machining the full depth and just face the backside
Toms Tiny Shop I have also thrown parts doing it too. Doesn't work as well in hard jaws If I'm using hard jaws I stick to two parts per blank the more I can run on a machine is a lot faster than me sitting at the bandsaw
If done from a blank is easiest and most effective to come in with an end mill and 'part' them from the blank and each other, meaning turn then into individual blanks, then deck the backside, then profile. Should save a bunch of heart and head aches.
did you try mazak machine? I love them!
Hi John. Where did you get that "Programmed with Fusion 360" sticker? I'd love to have one :)
Dumbest question ever: When you are doing soft jaws where there will be a big gap between them (like, not just 0.125", but like the 1"+ you're running here), what's your strategy for modeling/machining them? You model them with the desired gap and then use a something as an accurate spacer when you mill them? Or do you model them together and futz with sketches to get each end and mill them that way?
::Runs out and starts looking for quality spacers that aren't parallels::
Thanks!
Greg Koenig just get a cheap set of parallels. for smaller spacings, dowel pins work pretty well.
For softjaw work it doesnt matter. Dont worry yourself with being crazy accurate in things like spacing. When your cutting the jaws and parts with the same WCS it just doesn't matter. I wish I could post the last set of "lathe" parts I made on the Robo, (they are a surprise announcement when I launch the lights), but I was able to perfectly blend cuts on a round part after moving them to the second position in the softjaws.
Could you tell me what computer you are using to run Fusion 360, ie what memory, speed of processor? Thanks Rod
Yes that will be fine. Keep up the great videos.
I Have a haas tm2p i just bought and am running fusion.....is there anywhere you would recomend a guy could go for a week or so for hands on training.....?
Ben Willson hi i am starting with Fusion too in my shop. How are you doing right now after some months?
In the near future it might go that fast!!!
I prefered to use G52
!!!!!!!Nice to see this man's enthusiasm. Also nice that he admitted concerns!!! about "4 in a jaw".....!!!!
But I guess he's making money from promoting Fusion 360? And Lakeside tooling?!!!
Fed up hearing it to be honest. Anyway, crack on!!!
Is that "I" for Inventor @ AU? :)
Would this setup be possible on the 770?
working in the medical industrie, you come across +/- .020 - +/- .030 all the time.
watch the movie : Idiocracy (2006)
Is your rapid turned down. Let that end mill eat man that cycle is way slooowww. Kick up that feed rate
Now this job didn't result from your instagram challenge did it ?:)
lol at 9:02 the sound of the endmill engaging too much material.
This Tormach company does not send products after customer credit card payment. I accuse you of this kind of fraud.
I approved it on October 12th, 2021. Since then, I haven't received any additional products. Please be careful, everyone.
I wish I had an ATC T_T so expensive...
that's one expensive key chain
AvE, skookum as frig.
@ 5:20 ... Hey man, no fair! That's CLICKSPRING's theme music.
How to Hold multiple parts of different sizes in a mill vise
ua-cam.com/video/1JcBphFxEe4/v-deo.html
John do you think President Trump will bring about a new era of CNC machining boom to the USA?!
Someone Else Yes
No.
Very possible. Already starting
I still don't get it. Your toolpaths never seem to keep up with your fixturing. Why have 8 workpieces on the setup and mill 4 at a time. Your tool change time is sooooo long that I would think you would make each one last as long as possible.
According to my experience, I thought there was a company like this only in China, but I knew for the first time that there was a company like this shamelessly low-level in the United States. Do you ruin the name of the country and company because of less than $500?
We want an apology, compensation, and refund at the Tormach company level.
I will share this series of processes with all the companies involved.