"There are no flawless characters, simply writers who fail to identify a character's flaws." Can't remember where I heard this but it definitely fits here.
I think this quote from Doctor Who defines what a hero is and should be. "I'm not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I want to beat someone, or because I hate someone, or because, because I want to blame someone. It's not because it's fun and God knows it's not because it's easy. Its not even because it works, because it hardly ever does. I do what I do, because it's right! Because it's decent! And above all it's kind. It's just that. Just kind. If I run away today, good people will die. If I stand and fight, some of them might live. Maybe not many, maybe not for long. Hey, you know, maybe there's no point in any of this at all, but it's the best I can do, so I'm going to do it. And I will stand here doing it till it kills me."
@@crapcase3985 Probably not a good ideology for some rando high school kid. But for a time traveling, practically immortal, alien super-genius? They can probably get away with it.
"It's not the end after someone gets hurt. Even if the best possible outcome has someone get hurt to save many others, I still want to pursue a resolution where nobody is hurt. That there is no justice in this world, and that people die meaninglessly in reality... I don't think such words are right…!" -Best Housewife Shirou Emiya
Remember Ruby said "We didn't need an adult to come save us!" to the specific adult who saved specifically her from being kidnapped by the first non-Grimm opponent who tried to take her away.
I'm pretty sure they've been saved by an adult at least once per volume at this point, and usually more than once. And that's just accounting for cases where they were actually saved from a life-or-death situation as well, never mind things like how Weiss needed both Klein and the airship pilot she bribed to escape he family home and get through the Atlas embargo, or how Yang would have probably needed much longer to retrain and adjust her fighting style to account for her injury if not for Ironwood providing her with a prosthetic arm. These little shipdits literally only lasted like one day after Ozpin left before they found themselves in a life-or-death situation that they only escaped because Maria was there to show Ruby how to activate her silver eyes. It's also worth noting that in addition to saying they didn't need an adult to save them, she also said that they didn't need an adult to tell them what to do. Ruby...you literally only had any idea what to do after Beacon because Qrow gave you a lead on where to start. Yang only knew where to find her mother, what her mother could do, and how it would help her get to you because Taiyang told her. It was only after her talk with him, Port, and Oobleck that she finally pushed herself to begin training again. Until Qrow and Ozpin filled them in that something was wrong with Leo they didn't even realize that there was something off about him, and basically would have blindly walked into any trap he led them into.
Y'know I now realize why they didn't bring Sun along. Because he would've immediately told team rwby that a random spot in Vacuo would've been a terrible idea considering that he lives there.
@@bgvo4373 I mean his plan is fucked up but there are no other choices for him.I mean if team rwby talked to him and tried to give another alternative they could have devise plan.
@@lilowhitney8614 Yeah, the same one that wouldve saved 500/1000 instead of 900/1000, cause no matter what, there would be stragglers in rwby's plan. Cinder being that factor you can't account for along with grimm outta nowhere like an rko
Ozpin: How did you know all this would happen? Salem: Simple. YOU chose them. I know how stupid you can be and that you'd only pick the worst possible cadidates. Ozpin:...Am I really that bad at thi- Salem: Yes. Yes you are.
or you know she is the commander and knows that hwile she can't be killed she CAN be beaten? she is powerful. she isn't as powerful as a nation, especially one with weaponry and technology like atlas.
Yang is probably the worst of the entire group She's annoying Entitled Hypocritical Always thinks she's in the right Refuses to accept when she's made a mistake And blames everyone else for her problems
@@Vigriff for me, the moment I lost all respect for her was during her argument with Red in Volume 8 Everything had gone to shit, Oscar was kidnapped, Salem was coming for them and they were all dying and she *still* refused to accept that she had made any mistakes
They need to give Weiss and Blake their personalities back. The Blake we knew at the start of the show would have been horrified at how many lives Ruby endangered to sneak into Atlas, and would never have agreed to the *forced* migration of the entire population of Atlas into an impoverished country like Vacuo. The old Weiss would have literally led a mutiny against Ruby after her deception cost them their most powerful ally while her home country was on the verge of destruction. Weiss is supposed to be smart and opinionated, Blake is supposed to be thoughtful and critical, even of her teammates if necessary. Their silence on Ruby’s track record as a leader doesn’t fit their characterization, and it makes it seem like everything is going wrong in spite of her actions, instead of because of them which is more accurate.
It's criminal how underutilized Weiss was in the ATLAS ARC. Apparently CRWBY considered her yelling at her kid brother to be enough character work for her. The idea that she would be fine with Ruby's plan to drop Atlas from the sky all to save Penny is insane, especially when at the end of Volume 7 she told Marrow that she would never give it up. Blake also apparently doesn't get to be a character outside of Yang's not-gf because people really hated how she acted in Menagerie and the White Fang plot in general. Worse than that, Blake was completely useless in the entire last two volumes: she had to be saved by Yang multiple times in their fight with the Ace Ops, she had to beg an unconscious Ruby to save her from a grimm, and she couldn't save Yang nor Ruby (nor herself, even) from falling into the void.
I’d even just settle for Yang being fun and cool again. God V1-2 had such a pulse and the current cast is like reading the wikipedia article of any movie instead of watching it. All surface level point to point actions, zero humanity or emotion behind action
RT: "Look at how morally gray our show is!" Also RT: *actively undoes any morally gray conflict they accidentally create and replaces it with clownery*
The signs were there as early as the first three volumes (As Critter pointed out). I'll never forget Roman Torchwick challenging Ruby's world view at the end of Vol 3 and hearing the truth behind his motivations... Only for him to get immediately eaten by a bird... :/.
@@nyhtfall1969 Salem could have dropped all the villains she had and hired Team RWBY to do her dirty work. lol They would be MUCH better at taking the relics because they look innocent enough.
There's this interaction from a fanfic called White Sheep, where Salem is Jaune's mom. It's a scene where Salem and Pyrrha are talking to one another and Pyrrha asked how she could put humanity through so much without a care. Salem responds by asking what it is she's done to humanity in recent years. She hasn't started wars, she hasn't made the Grimm go out of their way to destroy human settlements, and she didn't even order the Fall of Beacon. She then goes on to tell Pyrrha she has no reason to care for dividing and destroying humanity herself when they've proven to her time and again that they're more than capable of doing so themselves. That conversation is all I can think of when I think of how downhill modern RWBY seasons have gone.
@@udayveerbhadauria1659 Couer in general is a better writer than most of the CRWBY staff it seems. Dude can take relatively odd or benign concepts and make good stories from them. Hell, Beast of Beacon was basically a de-assassination of Adam into, if not a somewhat likeable character, at least a decent one. Couer may have Jaune on the brain in most of his fics, but it doesn't mean he isn't good (especially considering he shits out a new chapter for each of his stories almost everyday of the week)
In Justice League Unlimited, the League realized that having a massive space weapon in the Watch Tower was a bad idea when Lex Luthor took control of it and fired it to a big city; no one may have died, but a lot of people were injured and A LOT of damage was caused; and after the League deals with Luthor and Brainiac, they get rid of the space weapon and Superman considered disbanding the League, but everyone wanted them to stay together cause they still saved the world from Luthor; Superman agrees to keep the JL going, but says that some changes need to be made with how they operate, like opening a new base on the planet surface so they can work more closely with the people. Wish Team RWBY would take lessons from some real heroes, but knowing them they'd completely villainize Superman.
@Keshuel It has consequences. After the citiy's destroyed, the JL basically becomes Public Enemy no.1. They have to work and work *hard* to regain the trust of the people and they actually acknowledge that the space laser was a horrible idea in hindsight. When was the last time team RWBY *ever* admitted they were wrong about anything? When have they *ever* worked to make amends with or regain the trust fo the people they pushed away? They broke Cordo' mech when she went after them for stealing from her. They verbally and physically assaulted Ozpin after forcing his traumatic past out of him. They villainized Ironwood and then left him, Atlas and Mantle behind to die when all their lying, scheming and belly-aching finally pushed him over the edge. All of this is never brought up to push team RWBY down a peck. Like Critter says, all they ever get is endless praise and rewards and should anyone ever dare criticize them they're either brow-beaten into taking it back later on and kowtowing before the almighty team RWBY or they're killed. The only time I can think of when they faced consequences for their direct actions was the finale of Volume 8 and even that means nothing because we know they'll get out alive and none the worse for wear in the end.
@@Justme-wm8vr to be fair the seeds of doubt have been place with ren and yang questioningly Ruby decisions, I mean the rest of the cast comfort her and reassure her that she doing good but it's a start and after last season if there not any big lash fight dividing the group then yes I think we are going to have a big problem if none of these problem come up A they lost a kingdom due to their decisions B they were stupid to announce to everyone friend and enemy alike about their plans C Salem now has two relics and is half way to her goals due to their mistakes, and if they went with ironwood plan it would have guarantee that one of the relics and maidens would be beyond her gasp for at least years if not decades D if they realize that they are kids, that they shouldn't be given this much responsibility and due to their ignorance they let a friend die when they swore to protect her
I’m now having new thoughts on what Roman Torchwick said before he died; “You wanna be a hero? Then play the part and DIE like every other Huntsmen in History!” There were only THREE heroes in this series. James Ironwood, Penny Pollendina, and Pyrrha Nikos.
I don’t think James can be counted as a hero anymore, but his actions are a lot more justifiable. Needless to say, losing your mind to the point of shooting someone and announcing a future attack on innocents is not heroic.
Has anyone else ever noticed that the Grim are never really shown killing anyone except other villains? They're usually just shown standing menacingly over people and commit property damage. Cinder and Adam have more onscreen kills than the Grim.
And meanwhile, you've got Covenant and Locust killing civvies and their respective games' military forces en masse, capturing and torturing humans to the breaking point (Locust, Gears of War 2,) glassing planets and destroying billions of lives (Covenant, Halo,) and who knows what else.
@@beanother1an690 also the Necromorphs/Markers from Dead Space (the Markers not only cause the Necropmorphs but cause people to turn on each other in a bid to add more bodies to the pile which in some cases includes the person they’ve driven insane, after that more are made).
except that it would have gone much worse for the world had he succeeded too. Put it this way. rwby got defeated and captured in that fight. but even then, would they have been able to stop cinder from taking the maiden powers if Rwby hadn't scared her off? And even then if they somehow captured, killed, or drove off cinder, they would have raised atlas into the sky. all salme would have done was snear and head to vacuo who would be totaly unprepared and be destroyed. likely, salem would have found the maiden somewhere and used that power to access the vault. Now we don't know how the sword of destruction actualyl works. But we can presume that it has a power to unmake things... Such as the very thing that is keeping atlas floating, perhaps?
Also can we talk about Oscar so called "friends" and "teammates" treat him like rubbish and still haven't apologised for punching him and screaming in his face. If I was Oscar I'd leave
@@HyperfixationStation If I was writing the show I'd have Oscar call them out. Team RWBY are jerks as said in the video and they deserve a slap to their arrogance
Jaune punched him in the face because he still grieving, it's only been a year and a half in the show since Pyrrha's death. You've been on the Move unable to properly grieve, he's just really good at hiding his emotions most of the time.
I remember when Ozpin's past was revealed. I felt really bad for him, and his story has a lot of similiarities to my own work with one specific character. I was suprised to see RWBY act all pissy and angry. Like okay, maybe he should have told you about Salem's immortality, but why are you all still mad about everything else? He literally lost his wife (in a way), his children, and all of his friends and family in his previous lives and he has a nearly impossible task ahead of him. Give the poor guy a break
@@totallynotafanficreader7850 Yup and it's not like Team RWBY had proved themselves trustworthy they had done nothing to earn that level of trust. It's so funny how they demand others prove themselves worthy but then simple demand trust and respect.
Because Ozpin pretty much trick them? the entire issue is even if he means well, Ozpin have let RWBY and probably hundred or thousand of hunter that the fight with grimm can be won or even stop, the fact they agree to a fight that lack a important piece of information means at any given moment you are manipulating them, hell they introduce phyrra to this bigger fight and never could tell her what was all about, that is A LOT. Like RWBY is to harsh on ozpin(and they figure out that in volume 8) but focusing more on his feeling would be a) reward ozpin lying because he feel sad about and b) doing him a loki on "who care what he did, didnt seen how sad he feel?"
And then I just realized... Ruby's mimicking what Roman kept doing... She lies, steals and cheats, yet she gets to survive. Christ on a motorcycle. _Facepalm_
@@EMIYA_23 , you’re completely right that Volumes 4-8 team RWBY are all just gender swapped versions of Roman and his team of criminals that he works with hence why he was killed off in the end of Volume 3.
You know they could have had RWBY evacuate people to Vacuo. Just let Ironwood do his plan and the others they run to Vacuo with. Why Vacuo? The genie can only do one gate in (timframe) and the team has to go there to stop the next attack. There. Done. Bunch of Atlas civilians in the desert.
RWBY: We decided to take Ironwood's plan and make it ours. We can do it and do it better. Because ...... it'll be our plan. Gets Amity up, then uses it to tell the world 'Ironwood is a bad man, not to be trusted. Please come and help save Atlas'. Later in V8 in her first talk with Yang since V5. Yang: You did good Ruby. You got Amity up. You got the message out. Ruby: But why didn't anyone come to help? Me, talking to the screen: Maybe because you told the world not to trust the leader of the most powerful millitary on the planet. They are not coming to help. They're busy fortifying their own defenses in response!
Mr Saturday. Facts! But hey, the rules: 1 - Team RWBY are always right(eous). 2 - If ever it may seem that Team RWBY have made a mistake, have erred in judgement, or are just plain wrong, please refer to rule #1 for guidance.
It’s weird how the show wants to be all real and serious but has one of the realest characters be hated and crapped on by story. But the show has never been good with tone.
Not only that, he's the only one with an actual plan. CRWBY wants to 'save' everyone but not once did they come up with an idea to do so. They're just waiting for what's basically a Deus Ex Machina to solve all their problem.
on the contrary, it is one of the most stupid plans that it is envisaged Raising atlases in the atmosphere would have more consequence of this deprivation of dust and would have resulted in a shortage in the long term and therefore a possible destabilization of the atlas. Remmante would have been defenseless against salem and she would very well have seized the other relics Salem would have very well created a grimme adapted to the space or would have very well used the relic of destruction to destroy atlas and seized the relic of creation. and above all cinder was already on atlas and salem needs the relics but not necessarily until destroying a kingdom definitively, so cinder could very well have killed the winter maiden and seized its power and seized the relic and therefore the plans of ironwood would have been useless anyway and above all it becomes completely obsolete from the moment when salem has landed the whale on atlas, its planes (impracticable base and already compromised by cinder) fall into the water.
I still think in Volume 6, it would be cool if Weiss went back to Atlas "alone" but with Qrow keeping her company in his bird form, bypassing security as Weiss's "pet"
They could also have snuck Oscar and/or the lamp in the luggage. And instead of picking a fight with Cordo, the grimm would be attracted by Adam having planted bombs all over the city, BB gets their fight with Adam and Weiss arrives later with the cavalry.
And I’m sure they could sneak Maria in Weiss’s luggage too - that’s the 3 of them on the way to Atlas. It declutters the cordovin fight too. We had 8 people (Oscar Qrow Maria Ruby Weiss Ren Nora Jaune) fight Cordovin’s mech. Scaling that down to just Oscar Ruby Ren Nora Jaune would have given everyone involved more combat time
I swear a better conflict in Vol 8 would have been Pragmatism vs. Principle. Ironwood being on the former, while RWBY&Co. on the latter. Show that both sides have pros and cons, and maybe have both of them realize their error and meet in the middle for some well needed COMPROMISE and WORKING TOGETHER.
That can also lead to another conflict: Results vs. Intentions Sorta like if you have a lifeboat on a sinking ship that can only hold 20 people while the ship has 50 people. The other lifeboats have been sabotaged. Do you seek results and save only 20 people, resulting in the other 30 to die; or have noble intentions and try to save everyone at the risk of getting everyone killed? One could argue that there are no right choices, and that no matter the decision one might choose, the only one that's right is the one you can sleep soundly with and pat yourself on the back for being a "Hero".
I feel like a way they could have team rwby have justifiable reasons for not trusting ironwood is penny, like maybe after some time since the fall of beacon ironwood forced Pietro to rebuild penny but without her memories and makes her more like one of his soldiers. So when team rwby and Co. go to atlas and see penny again but quickly realizes she's not the penny as the from beacon, so in this scenario our heroes are hesitant on trusting ironwood because he brought penny back and turn her into a weapon
The sad truth is it was already there. IN VOLUME TWO…BY THE SAME TWO PEOPLE AFTER THE DANCE FESTIVAL WHEN RUBY FAILS TO CAPTURE CINDER!!! James even PRAISES her for her efforts. “…you recognized a potential threat. You took ACTION. And you did the best you could.” I REMEMBER THAT SCENE!!!
They do get praise by everyone who has the wool over their eyes and can't/won't see what the "Heroes" really do, and are manipulated and gaslit into thinking they're doing good.
The worst part about them turning on Ozpin is that literally none of what Jinn told them was his fault. He literally died, got rezzed, died again and spent the next few thousand* years trying to fix the world his wife broke.
I consider it very bad that they can't show self restraint and resort to being violent when upset, especially when the consequences of that had been rather harshly drummed into them earlier. But then, I didn't make it that far in the series before giving up.
I have to imagine there's a draft version of season 6 where the backstory is different and Oz was the one at fault for what happened, certainly there's a giant amount of foreshadowing that points towards that in every previous season. I had an idea for a rewrite of that sequence where Salem was the one who died and Oz put her in the pools in an attempt to bring her back, turning her into a monster as a result, and was then cursed to reincarnate until he can fix his mistake. He always has been portrayed as something of a shady character, especially in season 3, so it seems like the plan originally was him being responsible for the problems going on, but that isn't really what we got in the end product
@@Fixer_Su3ana To make matters worse, their violence is STILL against a child. And even going "well ozpin's in that child's head so how else are you gonna violence him?", my reply is "if you're not abnormal, even just looking like a child should give you pause. and that IS a child. A child who will suffer the same consequences of being punched as ozpin.". Like, in every fucking media where an antagonist can shapeshift, if they don't know someone close to their enemy they'll just be a child. And it will still work in giving the hero some pause, even if they know the child's not really a child.
Oz is partially at fault. He should never have stuck it in crazy in the first place. Salem was selfish, manipulative, and evil when he rescued her. To bad he did not see the red flags.
Hell, all Qrow needed to do was turn into a bird and then travel with Weiss. They don’t even need to prove Qrow has clearance this way, just say it’s her pet bird or something. This is assuming Qrow can maintain his bird form indefinitely or at least long enough for the trip of course.
Considering his bird form was specifically meant for use in long-term reconnaissance and general spying for Ozpin, I have no doubt he'd have been able to hold it for however long it took to sneak him through. Unfortunately sneaking him through security as Weiss' exotic avian pet would've actually been kind of interesting, which makes it all the more disappointing it wasn't considered....
@@thejasminedragonmerchant6843 Heck, they wouldn't even need to sneak him through as a pet. Weiss was able to sneak Maria onto the airship in one of her bags, and while Maria's not a large person, she's certainly larger than Qrow's bird form.
You forgot one. Before entering Beacon Blake was part of what could be described as a terrorist group and specifically worked with someone who was actively murdering people. She apparently never wore a mask like Adam or Illya to possibly hide her identity. And Ozpin just lets her into the academy with apparently no questions asked. Then when the White Fang the organization Blake was apart of helped destroy the school no one dared question her allegiance after she disappeared. Instead Yang is just beefed that Blake ran away, and never even tried to understand WHY Blake ran away.
Well, it's possible that Blake might have been wearing a WF mask for previous missions (just not in the Black Trailer because she may have lost it, or it got destroyed) and I think Yang is right to be angry at her. Blake said she wouldn't run away again after V1 and she did. Blake acknowledges this in show, and thinks her team hates her for it. As for the other students and staff, I'd say they had bigger problems.
@@tmntfangirl6898 Oh I agree. I actually like the idea of redemption for a character arc, and I could see Ozpin blindly trusting Blake because he sees that everyone (but Salem) is worthy of being redeemed because of all the guilt he feels over what he's done. But I don't remember it ever being addressed and that's the problem. The closest we get is Blake working her self to death trying to stop the white fang; that shows her guilt and her hope for redemption, but again that doesn't address the blind trust Ozpin had. I would also agree with your assessment on Yang's reaction; by that point it is clear that Blake isn't a traitor, but in the real world and even other shows that's not what would happen.
@@ninjagirl226 someone would’ve thought it at one point even if it was only a temporary thing that pretty much immediately went away. Also no it’s not addressed strangely, the most one on one time Ozpin and Blake get together which could’ve provided insight as to why he let her in the school just has her explain why she’s hiding being a Faunus and her spiel about how “I grew up outside of the kingdoms, if you didn’t fight you didn’t survive.”
Redemption in this show is very selective and illogical. Done purely for social media and virtue signalling points. Not only are certain characters eligible for it, it is handled as a complete and utter pardon. All past transgressions forgiven and forgotten. Their turn to the 'good' side even rewarded. Emerald got it despite having blood on her hands as well as her part in the fall of beacon. Not to mention actively assaulting the heroes mentally and physically. Illia got it despite running with the more extremes factions of the white fang. No doubt blood on her hands as well. Not to mention assaulting one of the main heroes and attempting to assassinate her family. Harriet and Elm turned over a new leaf and very likely all will be forgiven and forgotten at their next encounter with RWBY. As for Neo. No need to guess. Despite having an active role in the fall of beacon, as well as attempted murder of one of the main characters. After a little girl talk on the beach to air out differences and grievances. Neo will flip, and be granted all the aforementioned perks. On a side note. Almost any male character who flips, seemingly death will soon follow. They usually don't live long enough to enjoy those same aforementioned perks that come with redemption. Their redemption seems to be relegated to sacrificing themselves for the greater cause. Just an observation.
Wait, I just realized something... _confusing._ WHY is the ship 'stolen'? Didn't Cordovin, like, give them the, obviously not earned, right to go? Wouldn't that mean she'd have given HQ the heads up about the kids coming? What?!
She didn't give them the right to go so much as she said "go and I'll pretend I didn't notice." It's like when Dad catches you sneaking a cookie from the jar, but just sort of whistles and looks away; you're still breaking the rules, but he's not telling Mom.
I think she said something along the lines of 'amidst the chaos of the leviathan attack, if one extra ship went missing I think I wouldn't notice' or something so techinically was more looking the other way than giving them the green light to continue.
@@groynin Man, either Cordovin is THAT vindivtive, our main cast VERY STUPID, or the writers really didn't think about the fact that she could have just given them the go-ahead.
There is zero chance of being able to justify sending the refugees to a random spot in a desert wasteland instead of vale or mistral. The only reason the writers chose Vacuo is because that's where the last relic is and the heroes have to go there.
Which makes it all the more baffling as they KNOW there is a relic there that Salem is after....so instead of getting the civilians to safety they are literally putting them at the next location in Salem's path XD
I’m reminded of Dragon Ball Z Abridged when they bring Piccolo to Namek. Dende: “He is on Namek.” Gohan: “Wait where is he?” Dende: “On Namek” Piccolo: “YOU DUMBASS!” Krillin: “why didn’t it bring him “here”?” Dende: “You must be specific.”
@@thomasraines1396 that makes me think of when rwby and jaune fall off the bridge the relic told them not to fall off but you can bet it's only going to benefit them in some way
the first episode of Ruby being somewhat useless made sense, since she was just a kid. and we can excuse that the ONLY reason that Oz had her advance two grades was the fact that she had silver eyes. So that ONE part I feel should be a pass, for narrative reasons. but I agree and CAN'T excuse later fucks ups. Especially when they become official hunters and huntress. I mean, who in their right mind back stabs the very person that had you graduate and be official hunters and huntresses? Then ABUSE this power to only make things WORSE?!
@@Hartzilla2007 yeah. like MrTrigacho said. they stopped the robbery. but not did not catch Roman, who robbed the majority of dust since then. it shows she is skilled, but still somewhat inexperienced.
Finally! Someone speaks of Blake’s attitude in volume 4. It bothered me for so long thinking that Sun really didn’t do anything bad; yes, he followed her without permission but looking at what he did to get slapped, he helped her save an entire boat of people and tried to warn her of the White Fang and the dangers she and her parents were in.
Really? She'd been stabbed saw Yang maimed, had her abusive ex return to haunt her AND Sun is stalking her. Sun's lucky she didn't kick him in the nuts.
@@brainflash1 he was trying to tell her about some potential White Fang activity. She doesn’t even apologize for doing, or just treating him like crap in general.
RWBY is a perfect case study of what not to do in character writing and world building in like 90% of cases and it's fantastic to watch it just crash and burn for so many seasons.
The realization that the girls' decisions ultimately led to the one true and absolute destruction of a Kingdom, something that the _villains,_ in eight years of this show, barely accomplished, made me lose it laughing. I love this show and I look back on it fondly, but by _god._ Ad.: I feel like I should clarify that nowhere am I saying that James' plan was good either, nor am I trying to absolve the character of the - albeit _dumb as bricks_ - hand he had in worsening things. The entire situation was ridiculous; I'm just having a hoot over the outcome.
Except they really didn't. Ironwood's plan was "rise to the clouds, let the poor people burn". He refused to trust others, and when people did try to reason he got murderous. He was ALWAYS a tyrant and he got what he deserved
I suppose the real question we have to be asking is who should be the first to initiate a relationship of trust if nobody trusts each other? If only one person does so, it leaves them at a disadvantage, and nobody wants to be taken advantage of. Perhaps when multiple parties put themselves in the vulnerable position of extending olive branches can true trust be earned. The one thing I find weird is that when people demand to be trusted, they expect The Other Side to willingly put themselves in a disadvantageous situation without complaints because they can't trust the Other to not stab them in the back. Meanwhile, the Other demands that they should be put in an advantageous position to show that they can be trusted not to betray the first person. If both sides do not make themselves vulnerable, and open to dialogue, it will just be an endless cycle of, "No, you first".
@Otneimica Should they have just let Ironwood sacrifice whoever he chooses because it's not "their decision to make"? Because he has some arbitrary power that supposedly gives him the authority to do so, even though he never asked the actual people whether they were okay with it? That's not really the way governments are supposed to work I think...
@Otneimica Um... Did you actually watch the show? They did start trusting him in the middle of V7, enough to tell him about Salem's immortality. I just love it when a critic's narrative about how the show is ever-so-terrible relies on not remembering the actual events of the show lol.
The scene where Blake said she doesn't want "ambush someone who is only trying to help" is so dumb. Of all the characters in this show, she knows best how "trying to do the right thing" does not negate the lives you endanger.
Not to mention that they have no real reason to believe that Robyn is "trying to help" in the first place. They know basically nothing about her save for what she's said on the campaign trail, and that she immediately turned to violence to get what she wanted when she lost. Worse, she turned to violence in order to get something that she can't even plausibly use. She allegedly wants to use the supplies she's stealing to fix the wall, but the military is keeping an eye on the wall (even before Robyn started stealing their shit they were still patrolling the thing). Meaning that the moment they attempted to use any of those supplies for the thing Robyn said they were going to use them for, the military would almost certainly just reclaim them and probably have justification to arrest those attempting to make the repairs as accomplices since they would presumably need to have made contact with Robyn and her people to get them. So even if we put aside that Blake should know better than anyone where this road can lead (and that the team has explicitly condemned Ozpin and distrusted Ironwood for exactly the same thing - having good intentions but making questionable decisions), it still makes them come off as twits for blindly trusting a politician they barely know on nothing but their word because they say things that sound nice.
@@VenathTehN3RD Let it be known that by this point, they knew for a fact that Salem had a spy within the city. For all any of them knew, Yang and Blake delivered the entire plan to a Salem’s eyes in the city.
@@VenathTehN3RD Following up on this how would anything made to build a new amity help fix a wall? Crap like that is custom made to fit a purpose and would have to be remolded to work for another project and even then what would she have done with the large amount of computer software and hardware amity was going to use? This plan makes no sense because material wouldn’t work from the beginning and anyone who saw them would know that instantly so that whole plot points is BULLCRAP!
I will be forever astounded at RWBY's ability to be the pinnacle of "What NOT to do when making a story" while still being made. It's hilarious how many video essays use it as an example of bad writing and how others can create better stories by avoiding the pitfalls RWBY fell into. There is good writing every so often, but most of the best examples are isolated moments whilst the bad writing is a chain of sequential events culminating in a flashy trash fire. Miles and Kerry probably went into this show thinking they'd write the next Avatar:TLA with epic Monty action, but instead they wrote Season 8 of Game of Thrones if it was an entire show.
It really is a gift to writers in the long term. You can do an entire course on creative writing that is built entirely on how RWBY manages to make the wrong call basically every time. With the little bits that do work giving some verity to the whole thing.
When Ozpin's backstory was told to everyone, I felt bad for him. Being pulled from reviving to dying like he was a toy in the brothers hands. Finally being with Salem only for his quest that the brother gave him to cause Salem to kill their children and him. Trying his best to counter Salem's forces over the years, even hiding things that would cause everyone to lose hope and panic, understandably so. Only more people would die that way. Yet RWBY pryed into his entire life without his permission, reopening all of those wounds over centuries. Then proceed to yell and abuse him cause he lied about something that almost had them giving up hope the following episodes, like he predicted. Even with the Apathy there they still were thinking of "why are we doing this if she can't be killed?'. I'm surprised that none of them had a shred of empathy after hearing all of that. If they were in his shoes what would they do, cause I don't hear any answers besides confront them and win. Which isn't a plan.
Fr, it’s so horrible that Ozpin had to go through all his memories/trauma again. Nobody apologized to him, including Qrow as well. He had no right to punch Oscar across the face nor even get all mad at Ozpin for keeping the whole thing a secret. It wasn’t even any of their business to begin with yet they still forced it out of him. Then they betray General Ironwood for wanting to save Atlas over Mantle. He had a plan while team Rwby didn’t. Even if it a good one he still did. They even end up easily forgiving Emerald when she helped Cinder and she even used her semblance on Pyrrah, which ended up killing Penny. It’s really stupid 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Ren was absolutely right. All they've done is make the situation worse. And note Salem didn't destroy Atlas. She didn't do anything last season. RWBY's crew did. They destroyed Atlas and might as well have allowed the big bad to have 2 out of 4 magical items. It's madness they are doing more damage than the labeled villains. Like it clearly isn't Salem their world has to worry about. I'm really really hoping that gets shoved into their faces. Hard. Edit: And I really really hope, just as Ren did, I hope Jaune is to bury them in that fact. The moment one of the four dare say "Why did you kill Penny?!" I want him to scream "Because we fucked up. That is all we've ever done since this started. We've fucked things up. We haven't helped anyone." I want him to tear down all disallusions that their group has been remotely hopeful and they've done more damage than the "villains" ever have. And if not Jaune, I hope someone does. Unfortunately, as I have been pointed out. It's doubtful. Highly doubtful it'd happen.
And of course, in typical RWBY fashion, they made Ren the bad guy in that situation. God forbid even RWBY’s closest allies point out their incompetence.
I think it will happen but it will follow with "No, Jaune, we did what we thought was for the best. We saved all those people." "You're right Ruby! I'm sorry. It's Ironwood's fault that Penny died, just like it was his fault that Clover died. Curse you Ironwood!"
If this was realistic they would have a body count in the thousands as they displaced the aforementioned thousands of people in the middle of a desert, with no supplies, no idea how far they are from civilization and surrounded by monsters. But we know all of those random schmucks will either disappear or Team RWBY will still be seen as the heroes.
@@nyhtfall1969 i think thats why Salem and Tyrian smile when Ruby does the global broadcast. Shes the perfect fall villain... If season 10 reclaims reality and reason with some hard speaking Vacuans with Dune vibes, and a Salem who planned to have eliminated 3 of 4 academies and gathering all her technological and warrior enemies to one place, the show might redeem itself.
@@philippschwarz4539she shouldn’t and Winter has not only never won a fight she seems pretty easy to bait, also the fact she doesn’t have aura, if anything she would’ve been one of the first ones to die.
You know the biggest thing that confuses me the most is why the "heroes" are angry at Ozpin for "keeping secrets" I completely understand the reasons WHY he did and I'm actually sympathetic to his story and here's why 1) why would he tell a bunch of wannabe huntresses and hunters the whole truth when all they were doing was transporting the relic. The rest of the information wouldn't change the mission at hand. In fact it made things worse when they DID learn the truth before they got to atlas 2) ozpin loved Salem but she became evil and wants to destroy the world. I'm sure in the thousands of years Ozpin has been around he came to the realization that despite his love for his wife, she has to be put down. That's not a good thing but its neccessary to keep the world from ending 3) him using the relic to find out how to kill Salem was smart considering that her immortality is not natural so it would probably require supernatural means to kill her and he's gonna need information. 4) ozpin kept all of this a secret........ so what? That's his private life and again it has nothing to do with the mission at hand. Maybe if they waited until they got to Atlas, where it's safe and the relic is secured, that maybe Ozpin could sit them all down and tell them why the relics need to be protected. Considering that Salem is attacking the academies it would be important to know why. And who is Salem really They call him a basterd and beat him yet none of them acknowledge that salem was his WIFE. Someone whom he loved and saw turned into a monster that needs to be stopped at any cost. They witnessed firsthand how dangerous she is when Beacon fell yet Ozpin is the bad guy for wanting to stop her? Or am I too analytical on a show written by idiots lol
They also got mad at him over his backstory... But he was *dead* for most of it. Hell, the Gods even flipped his mortality like a lightswitch at one point, which had to have been traumatic. And then we learn he spent multiple lifetimes a drunken depressed wretch over how *his wife is a demon witch now,* and it was only relatively recently he got his shit in order, *knowing* it was a hopeless battle. He fought a battle that may have been without end because he thought it was the right thing to do. And he's the bad guy... why?
@@blueline4857 and he's been fighting grimm and her ever since, even making the academies. Something they go to so without him, they wouldn't even have a means to become huntresses. Talk about gratitude lol
Yep, that's when the show hurt me lol. He has LIFETIMES of experiences dealing with Salem, keeping these secrets were probably the best lesson he could afford to do. Then, Imagine watching his life, and feeling absolutely no pity for what he's gone through, and had to do. Of course, if he revealed that she was unkillable, all of humanity's morale would decrease lol
Yeah. The second he said "Don't you think Leo said the same thing?!" (Or something close to that) I thought the girls would recoil and have a moment of realization. I gave the show too much credit
This just reminds me of when Ren, Watts, and Ironwood skyrocketed to top tier with a lot of fans because they were pointing out the others' flaws and holding them accountable. And considering two out of three are dead, I wonder how they'll carry on if someone else tries to do the same.
Yeah, I call BS on that. Not their popularity, that’s justified. I call out the fact that the characters state the obvious flaws when in reality, IT WAS US.
By that logic, Ren might be in danger. Nora is trying to separate herself from him, and his death would certainly help that process. Not saying it's going to happen, but I won't be surprised if it does.
@@callofhaloinfinite6336 Ruby is blessed by the god of light with the silver eyes, that brings death to anyone that doesn't accept her world views and is beyond any form of redemption (From her PoV). On second thought it sounds more like a curse from the god of darkness... :/
@@callofhaloinfinite6336 if they actually do that then the Renora shippers are gonna lose their minds. Doubly so because Ren was sorta Monty's character so killing him off might be interpreted as another disrespect to Oum's legacy which will certainly fueltothe burning recycling plant that is the Current RWBy fandom.
The only way RT is going to salvage Team RWBY's failed attempt at being heroes is if Volume 9 actually acknowledges how badly they fucked up in Atlas and the girls actually fight among one another over who fucked up the most, and then RWBY has a legit mental breakdown seeing Penny's dead body, if Penny's dead body is anywhere to be seen. Actually have the heroes suffer consequences for their actions and point out how their moral high ground way of doing things was stupid. It won't make up for how badly they messed up Team RWBY's 'characters' and it won't make up for all of the bad Volume 8 did, but at the very least, I'd respect the showrunners a little bit more if they actually have Team RWBY acknowledge their mistakes and actually, you know, GROW as characters from it. XP
@@bgvo4373 If any of them WANT to find their way home. Maybe they’ll meet some Sirens there that keep them from leaving kinda like the Apathy but not as gloomy lol.
@@bgvo4373 Bull, that is not the consequences we are talking about. I’m definitely sure the team are not gonna treat it like that, this is a new adventure more than anything to them.
Team RWBY is how rich entitled kids see the world, it has to be about them specifically, any other worldview or possibility that they disagree with is a threat
And that worst part: The mentality, is being pushed at the RIGHT thing to do. Not as a failing they have to overcome. They're entire character, reeks of "I'm perfect, it's the world that needs to change!" The sheer pretentiousness of it all is sickening.
Funny Enough... The "Heroes" acting horribly / doing horrible things and getting rewarded for it and those who oppose them or try to tell them otherwise is EXACTLY what the Toxic Fans and Creators of the Fandom have done and are doing.
Honestly fuck the gods. They started this ness in the first place the moment they turned Salem immortal instead of nuking her ass. Technically the entire series is all of humanity being left behind to deal with their mess.
@@TheLastHylianTitan If not for who the show was written by, you could almost deem that clever for current era. Those with power leaving the world's problems for the meek masses. Common worry for the current and upcoming generations.
I think what they tried to do was make it so that after they saw the state of Mantle, they started to wonder if they made a mistake. But it's very poorly conveyed. What should have happened is that if they saw Mantle in disarray - Atlas troops forcing people back and forth between work and home, or arresting people for looking at them wrong - one of the characters could then say, "Maybe we should've gone somewhere else?" or something to the effect of showing that they're suddenly not so sure that Ironwood is going to be helpful. And even then, that would've been helped if in Season 6, instead of JNR doing the exact same thing RWBY already did with pitching a fit about Ozpin's lies, they had sat down and discussed what they wanted to do, eventually deciding that even though they still don't know what to think about Oz, Ironwood is still the most suited to aid them, and the group deciding (with some like Yang or Jaune being very reluctant about it) to still head for Atlas, not because they're following Ozpin, but because it's the best option available to them, as Atlas would be the best defended kingdom and most suited for helping them. It would've allowed each of the characters to give a bit more of their personal opinions, allowed them to actually look like they consider other options, and at least helped them look a tad more mature. Obviously, of course, that didn't happen. But there is still fanfiction rewrites. Out of curiosity, would my idea above need more work? I've been trying to write either a rewrite of RWBY or a version based on RWBY but with my own OCs, and I want to make sure I don't fall into the same holes Miles and Kerry did. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated; the last thing I want is for my OCs to behave the way RWBY did. Thank you for your time and have a great day. :)
Honestly, it was such a cathartic moment when James called out RWBY on their lying. However, we can't have another character call out on our heroes' bullshit, so we gotta dehumanize them. Edit: It does make me cringe how blatantly hypocritical RWBY are, especially on when they get mad at Ironwood for lying about Amity to take out Watts. Have the writers forgotten Watts is on Team Evil?
There's also the fact they try to paint the White Fang, an in-universe civil rights organization, as bad for being violent...despite solving literally all of their problems with violence.
Ruby could have easily asked the naked genie man for an antivirus for Penny, or a jar to permanently seal Salem in (nullifying the greatest threat to humanity), or some minor terraforming to prevent TWO Major Population Centers from getting Atlantis'd, or an entire army of robots to fight the Grimm, Or.... Anything really. But instead she makes the canon plan that's so convoluted that her now-human friend dies (I don't even think she lives long enough to eat anything), Atlas AND Mantle get destroyed, the population of that city gets displaced to a different city that is TOTALLY prepared to take on that many refugees. Oh, and Salem still exists, because she can tank blasts that can arguably border on thermonuclear weaponry. Though with Heroes like these, Salem doesn't need to do anything.
That's yet another problem of writing in this show. The first genie had very specific rules and limitations (although it stills doesn't explain why they didn't use the last question to ask how to stop Salem). The second genie however never really explains what the limits are. They could have done so much with his power, he is basically a god. But no.
@@GerardMenvussatechnically the limit is that they have to tell him the exact specifications of what they want, they have to know how to make it themselves. Plus there’s that “only one creation can exist at a time” thing.
@@theheroneededwillette6964and yet Penny got a new flesh and blood body simply because they told him to “get creative” when he was seemed legitimately cornered as to what the end result would be since he didn’t have enough to go off of.
@@theheroneededwillette6964 well limitless engery is on the table so an auto manufactury of warmachines and ships that speedruns the process sounds reasonable in comparison
Also, we have to remember that Oscar was also a victim here as that punch would've hurt both Ozpin and Oscar as well as RWBY, JNR and Qrow all mainly seeing him as just another vessel for Ozma, not even sugarcoating the fact that the poor farm boy could potentially lose who he was (and the whole thing of Jaune pinning him to the wall). It feels like this was just ignored and Oscar came to terms with it off-screen. And making Penny human ultimately was pointless because she died soon after and by making her human, she can't come back. Pietro permanently lost his daughter and making her human flies in the face of her development which was that even though she wasn't human from a technical standpoint, she still possessed humanity and can make choices for herself.
We have to remember that possibly losing your own self to another person's soul and being hunted for it was Pyrrha's huge fear in volume 3. And the writing completely forgets this even though Oscar didn't even have a choice on it.
It’s funny to me how Volume 8 turned from everybody trying to stop Salem from destroying Atlas to a race to see who can destroy Atlas first lol, and I guess team RWBY won
More like a race to destroy Mantle since Ironwood wants to save Atlas. And Yeah, Team RWBY won because they killed two birds with one stone or killed two birds by smashin them to each other
If the writers wanted to write flawed heroes, that would’ve been fine, HOWEVER the narrative would have to treat their flaws and screw ups like they’re actually flaws and screw ups.
They really aren’t, more often than not turn out to be extremely cringy and horribly written, makes the main show look like a masterpiece by comparison
What makes Blake slapping Sun even worse is the fact her being slapped by Adam was seen as some cruel act of a heartless insane monster (which is perfectly fine), but Blake can do it and we as the audience are meant to find it “funny”. She also never apologizes for treating him like crap. Also Blake letting Adam run from Haven like a dumbass is in no way defendable. Why in the absolute hell would she do that when she heard from the man himself he’s going to “destroy everything you love”? Cordo using the mech was stupid I will admit, but she wasn’t a character, she was a caricature, a walking pile of ham, so of course she was going to do something insanely stupid all in the name of showing how “crazy” she was. That’s the problem with a good majority of the villains in the show: they ham them up in the name of making Team RWBY look better simply by comparison. Ruby makes the declaration that “we didn’t need adults to save us” and comes off as complete and utter delusion: 1. Yang was saved by Raven from Neo in Volume 2. 2. All of Team RWBY had to be saved by the older students/professors at the end of Volume 2. 3. The only reason Ruby was there to say that is because Qrow stopped her from being taken by Tyrian in Volume 4. Maria mere episodes ago saved Ruby, Weiss, Blake and Yang from Grimm as she told Ruby how to use her silver eyes. Yang whining to Ironwood about his lie which he used to lure out Watts reminds me of a quote from “Red Dead Redemption”: “You hear that Marston? We just butchered a gang of thieves, and the town is up in arms about a missing snake oil merchant. I’m so glad to be serving a such a wise and respectable people.”- Marshal Leigh Johnson. Sending the people of Atlas and Mantle to Vacuo was insanely stupid: not only do they not have any supplies, not only do they not know where they are in relation to civilization, not only do they only have a handful of protectors (who are either out of power or should be running low on it at the very least), not only do the citizens of Atlas and Mantle come from a extremely cold place (so just plopping them all in a desert is the worst thing that could be done) but also Vacuo is meant to be a barely survivable shit hole (this is made very apparent because it's like the books can't go five minutes without mentioning how dangerous the place is), the people that live there struggle to live. Do they honestly expect us to think a place like that is going to be able to accommodate thousands of more people? That’s not even getting into the different Grimm that inhabit the area (like the big sand worm things which are basically the worm from Dune or Beetlejuice) Team RWBY’s journey is just them meandering around failing but being praised. They should do what “Spec Ops: The Line” did where the main character comes to the realization he’s utterly delusional and simply made things worse. Also when I think of RWBY and their gaggle of hanger ons I’m reminded of a Dragon Ball Z abridged quote: “Our, ahem, “heroes””.
Yeah I agree the whole Sun slapping moments I seen fans either find it funny or bumblebee shippers saying "Yeah, that's what Sun gets for stalking and butting it etc". Blake never even apologize to him for the slapping.
RIGHT?? AND THEN BLAKE'S VA DEFENDED HER SAYING "SHES A VICTIM OF ABUSE, SO SHE GETS A FREE PASS!!" no. thats not how that works. victims of abuse dont get to abuse other ppl. thats how u create more abuse victims. its genuinely sickening how blake is being written as the hero, and sun is also the punchline
I think the main reason why they didn't trust Ironwood was because Mantle looked awful. But Mantle frankly didn't look too bad, it was 'tell don't show ' all over again. Thus it was hard to take RWBY's reasoning for not trusting Ironwood seriously.
Also haven't like, the majority of them never been to atlas/mantle? (Or haven't been in a while?) How do they know if mantle doesn't look that way all the time, just with less security around?
@@igegoe123 This is something I also hate from RT. They expect you to buy and get infos outside the show just to understand the plot in the first place. Thats a very bad written show if you have to buy books and go to conventions and ask them direct questions because they arent capable to portray the story in the first place. I also think they dont think about those things and when someone asks they can easily add the typical "Oh we didnt have time" "Oh we will add more info about that in X bonus book." BS-excuses. They arent thinking about the story they just act like they were so it isnt thaaat obvious that they are writing without thinking.
"Mantle looked horrible! There were some drunk people standing around that insulted one of my friends! And you had law enforcement actually out *doing* things instead of just leaving it to random teenagers in their first year of learning how to do their job! And you arrested us after we didn't do anything but illegally infiltrate your city after evading authorities in a stolen military airship and running around fighting grimm without authorization, almost like a bunch of half-trained kids running around getting into fights could potentially interfere with the people who are actually professionally trained to do that! Obviously this is too suspicious!" Honestly, that seems to be the mindset the protagonists have. If the writers were actually competent, I could see that making for an interesting storyline. Most of RWBY's career so far has involved them disregarding authority and taking action on their own, with Ozpin repeatedly enabling that behavior by making excuses for them and letting them off the hook. It could actually be a neat little character arc to depict them as genuinely thinking that what was going on in Mantle was excessive because they're used to living in a place where there's far less police presence (the most we see in Vale, even during the invasion, is a handful of detectives), and authorities are much more wiling to let vigilante actions slide. It'd be a good opportunity for the characters to learn and grow by experiencing one of the different types of legal and cultural environment they might have to work in someday. But the writers want to have their heroic rebels resisting the evil, fascist military state, so dammit, they're going to insist that everything is horrible even if they can't be bothered to actually think of a way to show it (and in spite of the same military being depicted as a positive force that the protagonists respect and admire in literally every appearance prior to when they decided they wanted to tell a "military BAD!" story).
Ruby: “We did it Team RWBY! We saved the city! Just think what might’ve happened if we just stood by and did nothing.” (Meanwhile, the city burns behind Team RWBY)
These guys have been reduced to sniveling brats with the most backwards, hypocritical morals ever made. The kid wanting ice cream comparison and throwing a tantrum if they don't get it is highly appropriate.
The show should've died when Monty Oum did. The fight choreo was 75% of RWBY's appeal - without his talents, the writing and animation had to carry. Meanwhile, we can see clearly that the writing staff are fucking hacks and somehow the show got uglier over time.
“Anyone who tells them no is the bad guy, doesn’t matter how close they are!” DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner, folks! Someone with an audience GETS IT! The writers literally believe this about the characters they write!
@@NiteSteel000 There is the one time their choice is internally questionable, but it gets subverted by the other guy becoming worse and threatening to do a mass casualty event So basically, even if they are ever objectively making a wrong choice, the opposition is either worse than it or at fault for it.
Yeah and after V9.. I’ve officially given up. The scene of them reflecting to their past selves was the BEST opportunity to address their issues.. yet they all(except Ruby) got softballed with questions about issues that they’ve LITERALLY never had. Weiss has never cared about being free of her name, that’s literally never been a thing with her. Blake has never battled between wanting to be human or a cat.. all she’s ever wanted was equality for her race. Again… WHAT?? Yang’s is just.. I’m not even gonna waste my breath on it. These girls are guilty of so much hypocrisy, self righteousness, factual mistakes yet NONE of it is brought up. #DontgreenlightV10 because id rather something I love just go away rather than watching it constantly burn and be ridiculed for being such a bad show. That or bring it back with a different studio and more importantly, WRITING team. IQ showed that team rwby as characters are only hard to write for the actual show-runners lmao.. which is hilarious.
During your list of all the times RWBY got told "no" by an authority, I noticed a pattern. Whenever RWBY get told no, it's by someone painted to be incompetent. Ironwood went from "general who has doubts but can be counted on" to "psycho", Cordovin is a petty nutjob over cashews, the authority is always undermined. What did the writers say about the criticisms they got for their writing? They said, several times, "we get a lot of feedback, some of it is good/constructive, but some of it is rude, so that makes it hard to listen to any of the feedback". For years, the writers have been doing to their conflicts what they did to feedback; undermine it. There are fans who said "yo, ice cream and ketchup for dinner at your place? I'm in!" And there are fans who said "guys, my stomach still hurts from the last time we did that; I'm down for junk food, but can we at least eat it right, or not mix the ketchup into the ice cream?" The parallel between the writing team and the heroes wanting it their way or the highway and demonizing any opposition is so apparent to me now, it's shocking. There can't be any sympathy for a bad guy, there can't be any truth to the critique of the audience; the bad guy is a genocidal general, the audience is raving mad, either for us or against us. What's crazy is that, in their attempts to make the store-brand equivalent to Avatar: The Last Airbender (which I only recently watched, so I'm not nostalgia blind on this), they've done all the important lessons wrong. ATLA humanizes every side, showing that there are corrupt people in the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribe, but also good people in the Fire Nation; heck, even Azula is sympathetic, she's a child soldier of an actual crazy person. RWBY turns good guys into bad guys just so they can have more bad guys to not do anything with; half of Salem's Council just died, and they still made the Ace Ops and Ironwood turn heel. ATLA had the heroes lose and deal with the consequences of their actions, as well as dealing with their personal hangups (Aang running from things, Katara and Sokka with their mom's death and dad's absence); RWBY wins even when they lose (remember how Blake abandoned Yang, whose entire backstory is based on her abandonment issues, after Blake's ex cut off Yang's arm, and then just shows back up into the team's waiting arms to end up in a relationship a volume after her return?). Heck, even the idea of "finish the show before expanding the universe" isnt being observed: card games, fan made games, books, manga, comic book tie ins with the Justice League, board games, RWBY chibi, that RWBY fairy tales thing, a different mobile game set in Atlas with the stuff that probably should have been in the show; every new project I see, I think "man, these people just really dont want to sit down and iron out this plot". They're just now coming out with an ATLA ttrpg; I'd wager we'll get RWBY's equivalent "Dungeons and Huntresses" before volume 10, right after they announce the live action movie that's basically a shot for shot remake of volume 1. Talk about self-inserts, the production of this show is a fan fiction of the production of ATLA: "people doubted our passion project, but we didnt let that stop us, we championed rights and issues in children's media, made a modern fairy tale about war, and created a beloved multimedia empire of merch and art and characters people will talk about for years after we're done. Except ours also has guns!"
Talking about side projects,just like they don't iron out the mains series I have heard multiple times that RT just ditch every video game they do. Grimm Eclipse? Add team JNPR aaaaand.... That was it. No other team made it in, not even single characters like Penny for example
I feel like Ren and Watts and Ironwood yelling at the cast is symbolic of fan criticism, and RWBY's reactions and decisions is the RT crew handling those criticisms.
I will never forget that time Weiss used her Semblance on a drunk guy and made him fall on his back from more than 10 feet in the air. Like yes the dude was being racist but he was also drunk. Weiss and Blake are trained warriors. That'd be like if a drunk guy said, "Fuck mutants", and Cyclops fucking blasted him. She used her fucking superpowers on an Aura-less civilian! Theres no justification for that!
Exactly it’s crazy, yeah the guy was a prick but Weiss (and Cyclops) clearly overpower them in every conceivable way, them resorting to using their powers to solve the problem, instead of I don’t know ignoring it shows them as really petty.
It could've been made into a nice moment where Weiss and Blake walk away from the drunk guy and show that they're mature enough to not take public slander to heart. Instead, nah! I guess Weiss is allowed to attack civilians now if they insult her teammates while clearly under the influence of a mental capacity-affecting substance like alcohol. Without Aura unlocked and Semblance active, humans in the RWBY universe can still clearly get hurt, so her doing this could've potentially *killed* him since he fell back-first from a decent height, too....
Ironwood wanted to protect the staff, team rwby wanted to protect the people. there was literally nothing stopping them from doing both other than the plot demanding conflict.
There are three constants in this world. Time will pass RWBY will always be a valuable tool on what not to do And Critter will giggle at some point in her video and it will be super charming.
Weiss vs Marrow Weiss: “this is my home and I’m not giving it up without a fight” Also Weiss: I agree with letting atlas drop Would have been cool to see how much she was against this idea considering this was her “home”. Maybe even let it lead to a different use of the staff, or at least a smarter plan.
Rwby's story writing has no flexibility to it. The writer's come up with the basic story and then force the pieces (I.e. characters, world building, etc.) to fit in it. Then after realising the pieces as are don't fit in the plot, instead of doing what a good writer would do and change the plot, they take a file and resize the pieces to fit inside. I hope that analogy made sense
As a writer myself, I completely agree with this. Like in all of my storytelling writing classes we were taught that if the pieces aren't fitting like they're supposed to, use them in a way that does and stays true to what you're doing. Don't ruin what you already have to get the result you want which is how I feel the show is going
"The writer's come up with the basic story and then force the pieces (I.e. characters, world building, etc.) to fit in it." That is how I feel about the illogical way the CCT was made. One falls and all the others don't work just as a way to keep the Kingdoms divided and increase tension for their weird message, while also making no logical sense. This is also my hold up. I want to write stuff, but I can only come up with the big moments. All the little things that ned to make sense, like character motivation and worldbuilding, are very hard to keep track of/have organically flow into what I want to happen. RT is like "fuck that"
@@adamzielke3541, I find character motivation and worldbuilding to be easy. But I don't know how to do small moments between the big stuff or how they get to the big stuff, but I still try to find a way to make it work by trying to build bridges between each piece of the puzzle, fleshing it out as I go along and making it work while also making sure none of it feels forced. Removing pieces that don't work and replacing them with pieces that do. RT still doesn't do any of that.
I guess Ruby really listened to Roman when he said that the only way to go in this world is "Lie, steal, cheat and survive" Cool video btw, never thought about this before
I used to be so excited that Qrow was the adult overseeing team RWBY and JNR, but when he, a full grown adult, hit Ozcar, a young teen, after he got angry at Ozpin for "lying", I started to really hate Qrow. He had hardly had any reason to be so furious at Ozpin, and to hit the face of a basically a child, when Qrow is a full grown man, just made me start to really despise the character. I literally don't know how the writers haven't felt the need to have some kind of meaningful conclusion about Qrow hitting Ozcar. It's baffling and makes me having Qrow being my favourite to Qrow being my most disliked and that's a pretty high bar.
Qrow could’ve died in Volume 4 and nothing would really be lost, hell the only time he was useful was when he saved Ruby and the rest from Tyrian. It’s really fucked up that literally the only character who even attempts to apologize for treating Oscar like crap is Jaune and even then he gets brushed off.
A long time coming but freaking worth it. I bet in the next volume, when Team RWBY hears about Atlas and Mantle being destroyed, they will blame all this on Cinder despite the fact fact they are the dumbasses who not only forgotten about her but caused the entire mess in the first. It’s amazing that the villains haven’t destroyed a single city and yet RWBY destroyed not one but TWO in a single damn volume. Thank you so much for a well informed video, Critter.
Hahahahaha Its funny because Cinder DOES have the power to destroy everything and everyone…but she doesn’t need to do that. RWBY got that covered with sheer stupidity and reckless behavior XD Oh god…good thing i left the fandom after v5 in going to the Precure Fandom instead cause WOW! Seeing this all play out, WOW they f**ked it up…and they STILL blame the baddies for it??? I…I don’t see the logic here =A=
@@taylorslade8080 eh. So so =v= Its a mixed bag but overall, we get along fine regardless of our opinions on who’s the best and/or worst seasons of the franchise.
@@t3ch5upp0rt8 Didn’t most of them evacuated from that portal thingy? Oh riiiight…some of them fell to their deaths because of Cinder ^^; Others are just panicking in various realms. Oddly enough, the RWBY team [and Jaune and Neo] didn’t fell to their deaths compared to the extras. They ended up in some island…plot armor =^=
Ruby loves to say that "We should work together" and stuff like that but what she really means is that "We should work together but only if it's under my terms and done my way." People on the same side as her like Ironwood are treated as villains for disagreeing with Ruby, this even extended to Yang in Volume 8... So she decides to steal an airship, Jaune's sisters decide to commit actual treason by abetting her and she damages the Atlas mech... The funny thing about the mech and the airship is that both of these things are crimes that Roman Torchwick committed but Ruby treats these moments like they're morally right... She is not just a My way or the Highway kind of hero, she's basically a Karen, stealing from the company and wanting to break the law to see the manager.
I love this hypocrisy (That many have already pointed out). *Raven: Leads are tribe of bandits, those said bandits tried to beat up Yang, the tribe also kidnaps Weiss and this is the same woman that abandoned her own family (Plus who knows what other crimes she's committed). Ruby: "Work with us" *Ironwood: Leads the largest military on the planet, is in same circle as Qrow, gave Yang her new prosthetic arm, helped fight off the Grimm invasion of Vale and even stood up for Weiss against her father at the charity event (Plus even Weiss' sister trusts him). Ruby: "Let's lie to Ironwood" WTF!?!
@@lynxfresh5214 I think the worst one is Emerald. Ironwood has done everything in his power to try to help people, but he's not perfect and has made mistakes while put into an insanely difficult position. When his prediction came true, and staying to fight ended up putting them all in a situation where they were effectively trapped and unable to win, Ruby still condemned him and even added in her message to Remnant that he couldn't be trusted. Emerald willingly followed Cinder and Salem's plans. She willingly helped orchestrate the invasion of Vale and destruction of Beacon. She willingly aided in the crimes and terrorist activities of Torchwick and the White Fang. She willingly helped frame Yang on worldwide television. She willingly ensured Penny's death in her match with Pyrrha. Ruby has lost *multiple* friends due to both Emerald's direct and indirect actions, and while we never hear specific casualties, it's likely that the various attacks she's been involved with have caused at least hundreds of casualties and thousands of injuries. Yet when Emerald betrays Salem purely in the name of self-preservation (and doesn't seem shy about admitting it), Ruby and Co. accept her with open arms. It takes them all of a matter of hours (if that) to completely forgive the actions that Emerald knowingly and willingly took part in and only stopped doing in order to save her own ass, while James is forever irredeemable because he dared to try to save people in a way that Team RWBY didn't agree with and wasn't delusional enough to ignore the reality that they likely couldn't save everyone. But Emerald is a cute anime girl, so I suppose that doesn't count in the eyes of the writers.
@@amandaslough125 Yep. It's a consistent problem with RWBY's writing, and one that a lot of fans love trying to fall back on when you point out problems with the story. It seems like an increasingly common misconception in the fandom that "foreshadowing" and "development" are interchangeable. And the thing is, her initial turn wasn't particularly poorly set up. It makes sense for characters like her and Mercury, who have no real personal investment in Salem's plans, to NOPE right the hell out when they realized that she plans to wipe out humanity, and to tag along with the protagonists if they're the ones with a ride out of there. The writers just flubbed it by having everyone forgive her (and her flip into genuine hero mode) over the course of a single episode that covered a span of *maybe* a couple of hours. It reminds me a lot of when Game of Thrones ended and you had some fans desperately trying to defend some of the poor choices made in the final season by saying that those things were foreshadowed, as if foreshadowing excuses the eventual execution being rushed and poorly thought out.
It occurred to me whilst watching this (around the 8:00 mark): Huntsmen don't come in pairs. They come in Fours. So either Dudley has to go and tell his other two teammates that they've lost one of their Team, or he's the LAST of his team. And our 'Heroes' yelled at him for doing the necessary thing. (Which is an interesting point in and of itself. RWBY doesn't run on "Do what is Right, not what is Easy', but on 'Do what is necessary, not what is 'Right'.')
Actually, they said back in Vol 1 that teams don't have to stay together after graduation. They could've separated on their own. Like maybe the train company only wanted to hire 2. But yea, poor guy.
@@MisteRRYouTuby Do they do evil and cause mass panic and hysteria and sometimes enjoy their evildoing? If your answer is yes, even if it's on majority, then there ya go. Also, did ya not get the reference?
The villains have motivation and goals and somewhat relatable background,they also suffered failure and losses (rip torchwick). Villains are more developed and interesting tbh.
@@JanizMakudomaru let me guess. Mmmmmm. A red gem with sliver, a black cat who likes to run away, Goldilocks who fights, and snow white with daddy issues.
To quote Merasmus the Magician; "Most villains don't think they're evil. They think they're heroes. Not me. I'm reclaiming it: EVIL WIZARD! I'm rotten to the bone, and I don't care who knows it!"
Honestly, the only way I see the writers actually fixing the main cast is by having the island literally be a version of Hel from Norse mythology. Confront them with the consequences of their actions. All of their actions in the show. Show Blake smacking Sun next to Jacque smacking Weiss. Show all the destruction and death their actions have caused. They need to own up to their mistakes otherwise the fan base will end up hating them more. The biggest difference in a hero and a villain in any storytelling is that the villain doesn’t usually care about who their actions effect so long as it furthers their goals. A hero will always care who their actions will effect. It’s also insulting as an audience member to constantly have the script tell me who should be in the right rather than have me come to that conclusion myself. There’s a reason that the words protagonist and antagonist exist. The protagonist is not a “hero,” the protagonist is literally the character that we follow through the majority of the story. The antagonist is not a “villain,” they are simply the character that stands on the way of the protagonist in their journey. Thanos is the Protagonist of Infinity War, while the Avengers are the Antagonists of the movie. However, we as the audience are given the chance to decide whether or not Thanos is a villain. RWBY, however, explicitly tells us time and time again that Team RWBY is good and anyone who disagrees is bad and as a writer, I FUCKING hate it.
"However, we as the audience are given the chance to decide whether or not Thanos is a villain." I mean, maybe, but one would have to be pretty stupid to think he isn't. A genocidal madman who doesn't cackle in delight at the deaths he causes is still a genocidal madman. If anything, he's even worse than the average genocidal madman in fiction, because limitations are null and void to him once he gets the Stones. He could use them to help the people that are supposedly struggling with resources. But that's not his grand vision. Because he's a villain.
@@damkylan3 yes it would be foolish for someone to think he’s not the villain, but the difference is that they don’t smack us over the head with shitty “villain” dialogue. He just has dialogue explaining his character and motivations. RWBY just tells us explicitly who is supposed to be the villain and who is supposed to be the hero’s. There’s no room for nuance or subtlety.
There is a problem with expecting this. RT doesn't have a single moral bone between them. Can't expect someone with bad morals to be able to write a character with good morals. RT are kinda shit people and team RWBY reflects that.
"I'm curious if Team RWBY will ever face consequence for their actions." At this point, I can only think in two possibilities: 1 - Either this thread will be completely forgotten or left aside for something else (*Cough* White Fang *Cough*); 2 - Or it is gonna end in a ham-fisted way (*Cough* Ironwood's arc *Cough*). But my biggest fear of Volume 9 is that RT might try to take things slower, which isn't gonna be easy since Salem already got out of her mansion and started to mess around.
Something i just noticed Vale: rwby helps a little: minor structural damage Haven: rwby barley helps: barley any damages, no seen casualties Atlas/mantle: rwby tries really hard to help: both cities get destroyed The more team rwby helps, the worse the situation gets.
I feel in a better story, they would've been executed for making two cities being lost. Seriously!! You don't brush that aside, you punish someone for it severely!
I never really understood why they got so pissy at Ozpin after finding out his tragic origin story and how the woman he loved turned against him, they got their children killed, and that he's cursed to live forever after being brought back over and over when the gods argued each other when Salem wanted him back. He's died over and over, watched people he loved and cared about die, and I think he also feels guilty when he completely takes over or merges with the soul of whoever he's in. I bet there were a lot of people like Oscar who didn't want to lose themselves as Ozpin took over but Ozpin couldn't do anything about it and had to fill the role of that person. I felt really bad for him after seeing that backstory and was horrified when they started verbally and physically assaulted him. None of what happened was his fault it was all Salem's manipulation. He probably should've said Salem can't be killed but Jinn specifically said that Ozpin couldn't kill her. They only mentioned that once and never bring it up again. Ozpin has suffered life time after life time and I'm sure there were people who turned against him when he told them everything from the start so it would make sense why he kept secrets from them. It seems like no matter what this show just has it out for the poor guy. And I also wanna mention whenever Qrow punched Oscar and Jaune slammed him to the wall they didn't seem to care that they were also hurting Oscar who's been dragged into all of this.
@@christianvirtudazo3106 exactly but no she dies and the one character who hated being put on pedestal will remain on a pedestal forever (thanks to the giant statue in Argus).
The thing about the breach is that the Atlas armed forces, Glynda, Port, Ooblick, CVFY and to a lesser extent JNPR were the ones to actually stop the breach, team RWBY stood in the middle of the square and actually needed saving by everyone else.
Yeah, the ending of V2 is one of my least favorite moments in early RWBY (which is saying a lot) considering how team RWBY is suddenly useless out of nowhere despite this being their first mission where they can't handle normal grimm anymore? Are you really going to suddenly nerf the main characters for side characters that don't even show up in later volumes? Really?
Oz was the one punished for that, because he allowed them to go in the first place. I actually get in arguments with people that think Team R going was a good decision and think Ironwood lied to take over security. Sheesh
When Yang first fell off I was happy that something happened to the main characters and I wanted her to die. but I thought that they were going to pull something that kept her alive because of the bumble bee shippers, but then Blake and Ruby fell off and then I knew immediately that they weren't going to die.
I never really looked into the Cordova part like RT really forget there own universe, that whole episode could've been avoided if Qrow showed his license and told her what was going on. My probably with are "heroes" is that they think their above the law like their "reason" is above everyone and everything. For example ironwood had been through everything more than once who's a general for a reason, if ironwood knew the relic can attract the grimm then he would've definitely evacuated mantel and prepared his defenses just in case it's true but nope are little band of Mary sue's don't think about that fact. And then theres penny she only turned on him because Ruby hit her with the Mary sue verse.
I never minded ironwoods plan he didn't have enough time to evacuate a whole town without causing panic which in hindsight is probably the worst possible scenario, grimm can fly and are always somewhat powerful and could of caused many casualties in the process which will make people scared and horrified which is worst. Another thing is emerald why did she get accepted so quickly she's done so much wrong that one right changed that?
@@eclipsedragonx906 because she is a female just like iliya. So she deserve her chance at redemption even though she doesn't have any redeeming quality.
I just wanted to go out of my way to thank you for all the hard work you do putting these videos together! I know it can't be easy, what with all the analysis, the editing, vitriolic comments, migraines probably, all while also having to dodge Rooster Teeth's copyright gun. Its incredibly refreshing to find well constructed, meaningful, and FAIR criticism/analysis in a community rife with outrage channels. They've not only been entertaining but they've also been a great reference for what NOT to do with your series and have been helping me elevate my own personal work to a higher standard, so thank you! 😁
19:13 Ironwood is honestly more justified than RWBY when he finds out, because Oscar probably told him about how the Relics attracted Grimm. He probably was kicking himself over letting them carrying the dumb thing *EVERYWHERE,* attracting Grimm to citizens who can't defend themselves.
I've always thought that what Team RWBY needed was their own Archer figure: A fallen foil who has seen where their path of heroism ends and, while still following their ideals to a degree, would rather see them dead than see them continue walking the path. A potentially substantial challenge to the team on a level that I haven't seen them be truly challenged on. However, I doubt the writers would be able to actually pull that kind of dynamic off.
That could of been Torchwick have his backstory be he was a naive kid growing up on the streets who believed in heroes like Ruby. Maybe have him have some friends who thought the same, who tried to help. But then attracted the ire of a crime boss and slowly but surely have each of his friends die because of the crime boss. Who gives Roman the leader a choice ether work for him or die like his friends.
You know, I’ve recently felt that Ruby and her entourage in these past few volumes (especially 8) is effectively doing the same thing as Captain Walker, the player character from Spec Ops: The Line. Forcibly inserting themselves into a delicate situation beyond the original scope of their mission? Check. Hero complex the size of Texas? Check. Making the situation far worse than it was? Absolutely! When shit does go wrong, doubles down, claims they had no choice, and blames the situation on someone else? YOU BET YOUR ASS! Except instead of calling out this destructive and selfish behavior, RWBY effectively is written as if Walker was the hero. And if you know the plot of Spec Ops… this is not a good thing! Hell so many of the quotes from that game eerily fit what Ruby & co have done, it would almost be comical if it wasn’t so soul crushing. ”Well done, Ruby. You've done what Salem could not - destroyed the Kingdom of Atlas. Do you feel like a hero yet?”
Slight change to that quote would be pretty much perfect IMHO. "You've done what I could not." no need to go into 'with my armies of grim, magic and total immortality.' Or point out that the armed forces of Atlas were basically the largest impediment to, and long term threat looming over, Salem. After all, given enough development time, Atlas might have gone full Final Fantasy 8 and imprisoned Salem on the moon/orbital station or something. Salem couldn't crush them under the Grim, but Ruby managed to destroy them utterly while discrediting them in the eyes of the people. (somehow)
I'm late to this, but the reason is pretty simple: especially since Monty's death, the RWBY cast have been written by bad people without self-reflection. They don't see any of the actions the heroines take as being evil, because "I'd do the same thing!" And the writers' presumption is that they are all not just normal people: they believe themselves, in general, to be paragons. So that same narcissism, casual cruelty, instant victimhood mentality whenever they receive pushback for their bad actions, all of that leaks its way onto the screen without any filter because the writers have no self-awareness. It's always everyone else who is bad, and never they who have erred. It was never a particularly well thought-out show but it only became more cruel in its one-sided moralizing as time progressed.
Team RWBY are the type of people who rather risk everyone's lives than save the ones they could. I find their desire to save everyone admirable. But it's also really naive. And now because of that, we have: 1. Lost Mantle *and* Atlas 2. Lost both relics 3. Displaced an entire Kingdom's population in a harsh desert wilderness infested with grimm. 4. Created a potential refugee crisis for *another* kingdom 5. And (in my opinion) mishandled what Ironwood was going to do regarding Amity due to a.) lack of proof to back up their claims, b.) straight up outing Glynda and Theodore, and c.) (potentially) screwed over Atlas by stating Atlas needs help while at the same time declaring Ironwood-- you know, Atlas' leader-- untrustworthy But at least they have a maiden... so... hurray...
They also now showed the world that the most powerful kingdom in the world stood zero chance against Salam so this will inspire fear across the rest if the world. If anything RWBY had made it harder for the world to come together and probably doomed everyone
@@4wheal Nah, the characters are somehow gonna find a way to use plot armor despite literally everything being against them with zero signs of getting better.
They may or may not have saved less than 1% of the population as Atlas and Mantle has over 100 million people. Yet, only few thousands got through the portals and were being picked off by Grimm. Their plan was 100% worse than Ironwood's. He could've saved 50 million people. While I'm not good at Logistics, I'm pretty sure 50 million is more than a few thousand.
That's why I hate the later volumes. 6-8 is where RWBY became writers' pets and it's so stupid. It reminds me of that one episode of SpongeBob where Squidward tries to go choir practice and SpongeBob decides to stop him at every turn, tortures him and then upstages him. Plus this is one of many SpongeBob episodes that you could even reference to RWBY's action.
The irony in Ozpin's lies being objectively the best choice available to him. It's not even a shortcoming. He made the right decision. But then Ruby tries to do the same thing, but doesn't stick the landing.
Only thing I would say Team RWBY has a right to be mad about is the info that Salem can’t be killed/destroyed being kept from them, because even being on a need to know basis that seems like something you’d want your allies to be in the know about. Aside from that yeah, they didn’t really need to know the specific details about Ozpin’s past.
@@michaeldorsey9231 That's the worst part you'd want to share, and the show proves that. Every time someone finds out they immediately think, "I'm going to give up fighting." or worse, "I might as well join Salem." These are things that only assist Salem and make it harder to fight against her. Ozpin hiding that info is objectively the most logical and correct decision to make.
@@Coffy-chan is it because if the knowledge itself, or because Ozpin was trying to keep that knowledge under wraps from his closest allies that they respond so badly? To be frank, if you have vital knowledge of your enemies limitations/strengths, you should make your allies aware of them, especially so they don’t tackle anything more than they could realistically chew.
@@michaeldorsey9231 Firstly, the knowledge itself is demoralizing. Morale management is vital to leading any sort of effort. Low morale is directly counterintuitive to defeating her. So the information itself is what demoralizes them. However the information being hidden also leads to a response where they feel there has been a betrayal of trust. This is purely an immature and emotional response however. It is illogical, therefore shouldn't be taken seriously as proof that he should reveal the information, as experience has taught him that this always leads to the objectively more negative outcome. Hiding it always leads to better results, and revealing it always leads to worse results. Ozpin is in a leadership position, so he has to value outcomes more than individual feelings if he has any hopes of suceeding. And yes, information is generally good to have. But it works on a need to know basis. Information is classified for a reason. Ozpin's forces were objectively more effective when they were unware, and demoralized when they were made aware. In other words, revealing this information weakened his position, while strengthening Salems. The truth of the matter is Ozpin never betrayed anyone. He merely protected them an infohazard. Revealing this information was damaging to Ozpin, his cause, the subject that recieved it, and all of humanity. Everyone that recieved the information gave up. But the only way to fight back, is to not give up. Therefore revealing the information is objectively the worst option at his disposal. In fact, revealing it to the world at large would cause mass hysteria, and result in an automatic win on Salem's part. Salem is toying with him by staying hidden.
To quote Tony Stark 'If you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it'. In this case, if Team RWBY aren't learning from their mistakes or see how wrong they are by scolding the ones who scold them, they shouldn't have their weapons or hunter licenses. And letting them get away with everything without consequences? As if that actually works. Talk about a bad message to those watching. No wonder some of the fans are childish enough to try and justify Team RWBY's actions and villainise anyone with a decent mind who opposes Team RWBY. I'll tell you this, if there was a lesson in school that teaches good and bad writing, there is a good enough chance the writing and morals in RWBY would be labelled as bad writing.
And in that Spider-Man movie, they rightly portrayed how an inexperienced, headstrong noob would make things worse, but not realize his own fault until a grownup told him off.
I'd like to personally thank you for this video. Out the many thought pieces and good criticisms out there, this, I believe struck a visceral core root of why the show RWBY in its entirety met its downfall. Protagonist Centered Mortality reflects a writers bias so extreme and ironically, they showed how it's drudges deep into the material in all it's screwed over glory. How you showed when any action no matter how bad is performed by one party, can only be 'Good' when done by the people that they want to be seen as heroes, that's a red flag for any inspiring story maker to learn they're skipping down a bad direction. In truth, and this is just more of my personal speculation here, I believe this thought echoes out as to why the Rwby fandom at large performs their more toxic behaviors. In some weird way the show's ideals echoed into their behavior in terms of the treatment of others and how they come to clash in a subliminal sense. 'Ice cream for dinner' and it's end result if left unchecked. It made me happy to see someone put that particular feeling I always had into a cohesive explanation. While I often look at this series as a lesson on what to avoid, you personally satisfied that bone deep angle I always had about it.
This was what I was waiting for for a long time: a detailed explanation as to why our heroes aren't being heroic and why they don't work as main characters. The morality of the show is askew so the conflict doesn't work.
Yep!! Our heroes aren't heroic but they're still portrayed and treated as such, which is the main issue. It would be cool if rwby framed rwby as morally grey, but I don't think the writers have the guts/skill/desire to even consider writing their precious protags as such.
The fact that people would still go out of their way to defend RWBY's actions is preposterous to me. We all know how toxic reddit is, but man, have you seen these people? They defend Team RWBY to the DEATH of them, Christ.
My biggest problem with the protagonist's blatant hypocrisy is that it goes completely unaddressed in universe, in fact, it even gets justified. This points to unconscious hypocrisy on the part of the writers themselves.
This part of the story basically killed the show for me. I'll always credit the show for being a inspiration for my own work, but the fact that they don't give the heroes consequences and since volume six they've become almost unlikeable as well as being massive hypocrites, ruined the show for me. I might watch volume 9 but only when it finishes airing, but yeah, safe to say that I'm not a RWBY fan anymore, and I'm angry that I kept trying to defend the even to the point of being a complete jerk to others for trying to give any type of criticism Great video and will always watch your videos on it^^
I havent been a fan since volume 6 ended, I still watch it for maybe a glimmer of hope that something good might come out of it but no luck. Everything that team RWBY has done is, what was said in the video, hypocritical and spoiled. The only reason I'm still going to watch this show is for Jaune, who I want some more backstory for his family, and to see if RT gives consequences to the characters. and lets hope a REAL main character gets killed off.
"There are no flawless characters, simply writers who fail to identify a character's flaws."
Can't remember where I heard this but it definitely fits here.
this is such a great quote
So true.
just placing my comment here
Agreed
Facts
I think this quote from Doctor Who defines what a hero is and should be.
"I'm not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I want to beat someone, or because I hate someone, or because, because I want to blame someone. It's not because it's fun and God knows it's not because it's easy. Its not even because it works, because it hardly ever does. I do what I do, because it's right! Because it's decent! And above all it's kind. It's just that. Just kind. If I run away today, good people will die. If I stand and fight, some of them might live. Maybe not many, maybe not for long. Hey, you know, maybe there's no point in any of this at all, but it's the best I can do, so I'm going to do it. And I will stand here doing it till it kills me."
So no matter how many times one gets hurt one shouldn't stop until many are saved?
@@thewhiteweaver8629 no one is saying that's a good ideology, shirou emiya is an example of it.
God i loved peter cappaldis run as the doctor.
@@crapcase3985 Probably not a good ideology for some rando high school kid. But for a time traveling, practically immortal, alien super-genius? They can probably get away with it.
"It's not the end after someone gets hurt.
Even if the best possible outcome has someone get hurt to save many others, I still want to pursue a resolution where nobody is hurt.
That there is no justice in this world,
and that people die meaninglessly in reality...
I don't think such words are right…!"
-Best Housewife Shirou Emiya
Remember Ruby said "We didn't need an adult to come save us!" to the specific adult who saved specifically her from being kidnapped by the first non-Grimm opponent who tried to take her away.
And Maria saving them in the cellar...Ghira and Kali bringing an army from Menagerie..... XD They don't mention those parts lol.
They would’ve died several times if it weren’t for adults.
I’m not kidding, the first time I saw Ruby say that, I immediately said out loud “You are so full of shit, Ruby!”
@@Crazieyboy15 that sounds like the appropriate reaction.
I'm pretty sure they've been saved by an adult at least once per volume at this point, and usually more than once. And that's just accounting for cases where they were actually saved from a life-or-death situation as well, never mind things like how Weiss needed both Klein and the airship pilot she bribed to escape he family home and get through the Atlas embargo, or how Yang would have probably needed much longer to retrain and adjust her fighting style to account for her injury if not for Ironwood providing her with a prosthetic arm. These little shipdits literally only lasted like one day after Ozpin left before they found themselves in a life-or-death situation that they only escaped because Maria was there to show Ruby how to activate her silver eyes.
It's also worth noting that in addition to saying they didn't need an adult to save them, she also said that they didn't need an adult to tell them what to do. Ruby...you literally only had any idea what to do after Beacon because Qrow gave you a lead on where to start. Yang only knew where to find her mother, what her mother could do, and how it would help her get to you because Taiyang told her. It was only after her talk with him, Port, and Oobleck that she finally pushed herself to begin training again. Until Qrow and Ozpin filled them in that something was wrong with Leo they didn't even realize that there was something off about him, and basically would have blindly walked into any trap he led them into.
Y'know I now realize why they didn't bring Sun along. Because he would've immediately told team rwby that a random spot in Vacuo would've been a terrible idea considering that he lives there.
I’m glad Sun’s not with them anymore, he deserves better then being yelled at and slapped.
@@thomasraines1396 And almost got threatened with a punch while he sat on the couch injured from that Chameleon Faunus
@@normantheclown3746 wow.
@@thomasraines1396 Which he did after he said something she didn't like
@@normantheclown3746 again wow, I do remember she tells him to shut up.
"It's cute you all think you're the heroes of this little adventure"
Handsome Jack
The ending of this series will unfortunately paint them as such.
"Buuut you're not."
This...is such a fitting quote that I can't help but think what their reactions be like should they finally see what their actions had done.
"Ahh yes, these Mushroom Chicken kebabs are super good." - Manly Jack, Handsome Jack's 19th cousin
"It's cute you all think you're the heroes of this little adventure."
- Handsome Jack, the guy that thinks he's the hero of this little adventure
"Team RWBY may not have liked Ironwood's plan, but at least he had one" - Twiins Iink
He had several plans, one where he would’ve abandoned people, and the other where he would’ve committed genocide and destruction.
@@bgvo4373 Two controversial plans is still two more than what the supposed heroes had at the time
@@bgvo4373 I mean his plan is fucked up but there are no other choices for him.I mean if team rwby talked to him and tried to give another alternative they could have devise plan.
@@bgvo4373 "One where he would abandon people" you mean the one where he would've saved half the population instead of saving no one?
@@lilowhitney8614 Yeah, the same one that wouldve saved 500/1000 instead of 900/1000, cause no matter what, there would be stragglers in rwby's plan. Cinder being that factor you can't account for along with grimm outta nowhere like an rko
I swear Salem can see the future or something....I'm serious
All Salem has to do is sit down and watch our "heroes" do the work for her
“Salem’s a poorly written villain, she never does anything”. Yeah, because clearly she knows she doesn’t need to XD
@@conortheslayer the heroes keep beating her at her own game 🤣
Ozpin: How did you know all this would happen?
Salem: Simple. YOU chose them. I know how stupid you can be and that you'd only pick the worst possible cadidates.
Ozpin:...Am I really that bad at thi-
Salem: Yes. Yes you are.
or you know she is the commander and knows that hwile she can't be killed she CAN be beaten? she is powerful. she isn't as powerful as a nation, especially one with weaponry and technology like atlas.
@@taddad2641 Woosh.
Yang gets even worse when we consider she never says how she got the relic or that Raven is the Spring Maiden, but bitches at Oz for his secrets
And completely neglects to thank Ironwood for her arm
It’s different because of reasons.
Yang is probably the worst of the entire group
She's annoying
Entitled
Hypocritical
Always thinks she's in the right
Refuses to accept when she's made a mistake
And blames everyone else for her problems
@@panpan1287 And let's not forget how much she lets her temper get the best of her.
@@Vigriff for me, the moment I lost all respect for her was during her argument with Red in Volume 8
Everything had gone to shit, Oscar was kidnapped, Salem was coming for them and they were all dying and she *still* refused to accept that she had made any mistakes
They need to give Weiss and Blake their personalities back. The Blake we knew at the start of the show would have been horrified at how many lives Ruby endangered to sneak into Atlas, and would never have agreed to the *forced* migration of the entire population of Atlas into an impoverished country like Vacuo. The old Weiss would have literally led a mutiny against Ruby after her deception cost them their most powerful ally while her home country was on the verge of destruction. Weiss is supposed to be smart and opinionated, Blake is supposed to be thoughtful and critical, even of her teammates if necessary. Their silence on Ruby’s track record as a leader doesn’t fit their characterization, and it makes it seem like everything is going wrong in spite of her actions, instead of because of them which is more accurate.
Blake hasn’t had personality for years.
It's criminal how underutilized Weiss was in the ATLAS ARC. Apparently CRWBY considered her yelling at her kid brother to be enough character work for her. The idea that she would be fine with Ruby's plan to drop Atlas from the sky all to save Penny is insane, especially when at the end of Volume 7 she told Marrow that she would never give it up. Blake also apparently doesn't get to be a character outside of Yang's not-gf because people really hated how she acted in Menagerie and the White Fang plot in general. Worse than that, Blake was completely useless in the entire last two volumes: she had to be saved by Yang multiple times in their fight with the Ace Ops, she had to beg an unconscious Ruby to save her from a grimm, and she couldn't save Yang nor Ruby (nor herself, even) from falling into the void.
You want consistant characterization? What are you, a Nazi? LMAO
I’d even just settle for Yang being fun and cool again. God V1-2 had such a pulse and the current cast is like reading the wikipedia article of any movie instead of watching it. All surface level point to point actions, zero humanity or emotion behind action
@@PraiseTheSunset omg
I'm surprised people even watch this show
Do the writers live under a rock or something
RT: "Look at how morally gray our show is!"
Also RT: *actively undoes any morally gray conflict they accidentally create and replaces it with clownery*
The signs were there as early as the first three volumes (As Critter pointed out). I'll never forget Roman Torchwick challenging Ruby's world view at the end of Vol 3 and hearing the truth behind his motivations...
Only for him to get immediately eaten by a bird... :/.
in rwby the their is no grey its either your with team rwby or you get villianized
@@nyhtfall1969 In terms, I feel like Team RWBY is getting Villianized... XD
@@ArmageddonEvil says alot when their better villians then salem could dream of
@@nyhtfall1969 Salem could have dropped all the villains she had and hired Team RWBY to do her dirty work. lol
They would be MUCH better at taking the relics because they look innocent enough.
There's this interaction from a fanfic called White Sheep, where Salem is Jaune's mom. It's a scene where Salem and Pyrrha are talking to one another and Pyrrha asked how she could put humanity through so much without a care.
Salem responds by asking what it is she's done to humanity in recent years. She hasn't started wars, she hasn't made the Grimm go out of their way to destroy human settlements, and she didn't even order the Fall of Beacon. She then goes on to tell Pyrrha she has no reason to care for dividing and destroying humanity herself when they've proven to her time and again that they're more than capable of doing so themselves.
That conversation is all I can think of when I think of how downhill modern RWBY seasons have gone.
What chapter was that?
@@devilknight358 I can't remember the exact chapter
White Sheep is the shit. My favorite RWBY fanfic of all time. RoosterTeeth definitely could’ve used some pointers from that story
@@udayveerbhadauria1659 Try Also Grimm fate where you got a Grimm Turned Faunas Human Hybrid learning what it means to be one. I HIGHLY recommend it.
@@udayveerbhadauria1659 Couer in general is a better writer than most of the CRWBY staff it seems. Dude can take relatively odd or benign concepts and make good stories from them.
Hell, Beast of Beacon was basically a de-assassination of Adam into, if not a somewhat likeable character, at least a decent one.
Couer may have Jaune on the brain in most of his fics, but it doesn't mean he isn't good (especially considering he shits out a new chapter for each of his stories almost everyday of the week)
In Justice League Unlimited, the League realized that having a massive space weapon in the Watch Tower was a bad idea when Lex Luthor took control of it and fired it to a big city; no one may have died, but a lot of people were injured and A LOT of damage was caused; and after the League deals with Luthor and Brainiac, they get rid of the space weapon and Superman considered disbanding the League, but everyone wanted them to stay together cause they still saved the world from Luthor; Superman agrees to keep the JL going, but says that some changes need to be made with how they operate, like opening a new base on the planet surface so they can work more closely with the people.
Wish Team RWBY would take lessons from some real heroes, but knowing them they'd completely villainize Superman.
You can’t compare JL/A to RWBY. It’s like gold to a piece of rotted wood.
@@tlkfanrwbyfan8716 AGREED!
@Keshuel You have small things like that against RWBY’s five VOLUMES of terrible writing. Again, not comparable.
@Keshuel It has consequences. After the citiy's destroyed, the JL basically becomes Public Enemy no.1. They have to work and work *hard* to regain the trust of the people and they actually acknowledge that the space laser was a horrible idea in hindsight.
When was the last time team RWBY *ever* admitted they were wrong about anything? When have they *ever* worked to make amends with or regain the trust fo the people they pushed away? They broke Cordo' mech when she went after them for stealing from her. They verbally and physically assaulted Ozpin after forcing his traumatic past out of him. They villainized Ironwood and then left him, Atlas and Mantle behind to die when all their lying, scheming and belly-aching finally pushed him over the edge. All of this is never brought up to push team RWBY down a peck. Like Critter says, all they ever get is endless praise and rewards and should anyone ever dare criticize them they're either brow-beaten into taking it back later on and kowtowing before the almighty team RWBY or they're killed.
The only time I can think of when they faced consequences for their direct actions was the finale of Volume 8 and even that means nothing because we know they'll get out alive and none the worse for wear in the end.
@@Justme-wm8vr to be fair the seeds of doubt have been place with ren and yang questioningly Ruby decisions, I mean the rest of the cast comfort her and reassure her that she doing good but it's a start and after last season if there not any big lash fight dividing the group then yes I think we are going to have a big problem if none of these problem come up
A they lost a kingdom due to their decisions
B they were stupid to announce to everyone friend and enemy alike about their plans
C Salem now has two relics and is half way to her goals due to their mistakes, and if they went with ironwood plan it would have guarantee that one of the relics and maidens would be beyond her gasp for at least years if not decades
D if they realize that they are kids, that they shouldn't be given this much responsibility and due to their ignorance they let a friend die when they swore to protect her
I’m now having new thoughts on what Roman Torchwick said before he died; “You wanna be a hero? Then play the part and DIE like every other Huntsmen in History!”
There were only THREE heroes in this series. James Ironwood, Penny Pollendina, and Pyrrha Nikos.
"You wanted to be a hero? Then DIE LIKE ONE."
"Name one hero who was happy. They don't let you be a hero AND be happy."
This gives further credence to the saying “You either die a hero, or live long enough to be the villain.”
I'd argue about Penny. Mostly because RWBY did everything in their power to make sure she didn't do anything heroic.
I don’t think James can be counted as a hero anymore, but his actions are a lot more justifiable. Needless to say, losing your mind to the point of shooting someone and announcing a future attack on innocents is not heroic.
@@fishnewt1331 Nor is that James Ironwood. This was the actions of the writers not recognizing how well crafted James ended up in Volume 7.
Has anyone else ever noticed that the Grim are never really shown killing anyone except other villains? They're usually just shown standing menacingly over people and commit property damage. Cinder and Adam have more onscreen kills than the Grim.
They’re basically like the Stormtroopers from Star Wars: endless droves of canon fodder that are only threatening against random nobodies.
And meanwhile, you've got Covenant and Locust killing civvies and their respective games' military forces en masse, capturing and torturing humans to the breaking point (Locust, Gears of War 2,) glassing planets and destroying billions of lives (Covenant, Halo,) and who knows what else.
@@beanother1an690 also the Necromorphs/Markers from Dead Space (the Markers not only cause the Necropmorphs but cause people to turn on each other in a bid to add more bodies to the pile which in some cases includes the person they’ve driven insane, after that more are made).
@@thomasraines1396 Yeah, those motherfuckers were absolutely terrifying, and all I did was watch an in-depth review and some clips of the game.
Roman became too confident in the story.
Grim attack now!
With heroes like these, who needs villains?
Big thanks to both you and Twiins ink for your spot-on RWBY criticisms!
I know, right?!?! It’s like they are in sync or something!
@@MisteRRYouTuby well they are twins so.....
except that it would have gone much worse for the world had he succeeded too.
Put it this way. rwby got defeated and captured in that fight. but even then, would they have been able to stop cinder from taking the maiden powers if Rwby hadn't scared her off? And even then if they somehow captured, killed, or drove off cinder, they would have raised atlas into the sky.
all salme would have done was snear and head to vacuo who would be totaly unprepared and be destroyed. likely, salem would have found the maiden somewhere and used that power to access the vault.
Now we don't know how the sword of destruction actualyl works. But we can presume that it has a power to unmake things... Such as the very thing that is keeping atlas floating, perhaps?
@@taddad2641 basically adam taurus sword
@@donutbevil9669 I can’t tell if you are pro or anti Atlas evacuation.
Also can we talk about Oscar so called "friends" and "teammates" treat him like rubbish and still haven't apologised for punching him and screaming in his face. If I was Oscar I'd leave
IKR?! Boy really suffering just by being around them 💀💀
please they act like nothing ever happened once Jaune gave half an apology and no one else acknowledged how they treated him
@@HyperfixationStation If I was writing the show I'd have Oscar call them out. Team RWBY are jerks as said in the video and they deserve a slap to their arrogance
@@HyperfixationStation and even then Oscar brushes him off.
Jaune punched him in the face because he still grieving, it's only been a year and a half in the show since Pyrrha's death. You've been on the Move unable to properly grieve, he's just really good at hiding his emotions most of the time.
I remember when Ozpin's past was revealed. I felt really bad for him, and his story has a lot of similiarities to my own work with one specific character. I was suprised to see RWBY act all pissy and angry. Like okay, maybe he should have told you about Salem's immortality, but why are you all still mad about everything else? He literally lost his wife (in a way), his children, and all of his friends and family in his previous lives and he has a nearly impossible task ahead of him. Give the poor guy a break
Also, people have been betraying him left and right for CENTURIES! Heaven forbid the guy is a little careful about trusting a bunch of teenagers.
Because he lied to them. First rule of RWBY, never be on the opposite end of where they stand no matter what.
@@totallynotafanficreader7850 Yup and it's not like Team RWBY had proved themselves trustworthy they had done nothing to earn that level of trust.
It's so funny how they demand others prove themselves worthy but then simple demand trust and respect.
Because Ozpin pretty much trick them? the entire issue is even if he means well, Ozpin have let RWBY and probably hundred or thousand of hunter that the fight with grimm can be won or even stop, the fact they agree to a fight that lack a important piece of information means at any given moment you are manipulating them, hell they introduce phyrra to this bigger fight and never could tell her what was all about, that is A LOT.
Like RWBY is to harsh on ozpin(and they figure out that in volume 8) but focusing more on his feeling would be a) reward ozpin lying because he feel sad about and b) doing him a loki on "who care what he did, didnt seen how sad he feel?"
Exactly man when I first heard it I was literally like but doesnt this make Ozpin Salem's first victim?
And then I just realized... Ruby's mimicking what Roman kept doing... She lies, steals and cheats, yet she gets to survive. Christ on a motorcycle. _Facepalm_
That could be used to develop her character, if it was intentional which it most likely isn't
@@TupocalypseShakur Cosidering Rooster Teeth, I doubt it was intentional.
you mean by losing one of the people she was trying t osave, being thrown into a void, and generally having a mental braekdwon the entire chapter?
@@EMIYA_23 , you’re completely right that Volumes 4-8 team RWBY are all just gender swapped versions of Roman and his team of criminals that he works with hence why he was killed off in the end of Volume 3.
Dont do my boy like that!
Rwby:ironwoods plan is bullshit so we’re not going with it
Jaune: so you guys made your own plan right?
Rwby:...
Jaune:right?
Omg literally😂
You know they could have had RWBY evacuate people to Vacuo. Just let Ironwood do his plan and the others they run to Vacuo with. Why Vacuo? The genie can only do one gate in (timframe) and the team has to go there to stop the next attack. There. Done. Bunch of Atlas civilians in the desert.
RWBY: We decided to take Ironwood's plan and make it ours. We can do it and do it better. Because ...... it'll be our plan.
Gets Amity up, then uses it to tell the world 'Ironwood is a bad man, not to be trusted. Please come and help save Atlas'.
Later in V8 in her first talk with Yang since V5.
Yang: You did good Ruby. You got Amity up. You got the message out.
Ruby: But why didn't anyone come to help?
Me, talking to the screen: Maybe because you told the world not to trust the leader of the most powerful millitary on the planet. They are not coming to help. They're busy fortifying their own defenses in response!
@@DocMicrowave And the fact she just name drops Salem who most of the world doesn't know who that is.
Mr Saturday. Facts!
But hey, the rules:
1 - Team RWBY are always right(eous).
2 - If ever it may seem that Team RWBY have made a mistake, have erred in judgement, or are just plain wrong, please refer to rule #1 for guidance.
Ironwood may not have had the most moral plan, but from a military standpoint and a survival standpoint, it's the right plan
It’s weird how the show wants to be all real and serious but has one of the realest characters be hated and crapped on by story. But the show has never been good with tone.
Not only that, he's the only one with an actual plan. CRWBY wants to 'save' everyone but not once did they come up with an idea to do so. They're just waiting for what's basically a Deus Ex Machina to solve all their problem.
As has sometimes been said, doing the right thing in crisis will rarely, if ever, feel righteous. But it needs to be done by someone.
on the contrary, it is one of the most stupid plans that it is envisaged
Raising atlases in the atmosphere would have more consequence of this deprivation of dust and would have resulted in a shortage in the long term and therefore a possible destabilization of the atlas.
Remmante would have been defenseless against salem and she would very well have seized the other relics
Salem would have very well created a grimme adapted to the space or would have very well used the relic of destruction to destroy atlas and seized the relic of creation.
and above all cinder was already on atlas and salem needs the relics but not necessarily until destroying a kingdom definitively, so cinder could very well have killed the winter maiden and seized its power and seized the relic and therefore the plans of ironwood would have been useless anyway
and above all it becomes completely obsolete from the moment when salem has landed the whale on atlas, its planes (impracticable base and already compromised by cinder) fall into the water.
@@anonyme117delt5 hush rwby stan
I still think in Volume 6, it would be cool if Weiss went back to Atlas "alone" but with Qrow keeping her company in his bird form, bypassing security as Weiss's "pet"
They could also have snuck Oscar and/or the lamp in the luggage. And instead of picking a fight with Cordo, the grimm would be attracted by Adam having planted bombs all over the city, BB gets their fight with Adam and Weiss arrives later with the cavalry.
And I’m sure they could sneak Maria in Weiss’s luggage too - that’s the 3 of them on the way to Atlas.
It declutters the cordovin fight too. We had 8 people (Oscar Qrow Maria Ruby Weiss Ren Nora Jaune) fight Cordovin’s mech. Scaling that down to just Oscar Ruby Ren Nora Jaune would have given everyone involved more combat time
Bruh. . . So many creatives way to do this storyline. Damn, what's on the writters mind?
@@MrTigracho Mostly bees and little else.
@@lynxfresh5214 at least bees contribute to the environment and are helpful, unlike the protagonists
I swear a better conflict in Vol 8 would have been Pragmatism vs. Principle. Ironwood being on the former, while RWBY&Co. on the latter. Show that both sides have pros and cons, and maybe have both of them realize their error and meet in the middle for some well needed COMPROMISE and WORKING TOGETHER.
A narrative arch with a THEME??? Say it ain’t so! That’s honestly a really good idea for how it should have gone.
Yeah like they could have solve their problem if team rwby didn't immediately villainize ironwood but instead try to talk to him with a plan
That can also lead to another conflict: Results vs. Intentions
Sorta like if you have a lifeboat on a sinking ship that can only hold 20 people while the ship has 50 people. The other lifeboats have been sabotaged.
Do you seek results and save only 20 people, resulting in the other 30 to die; or have noble intentions and try to save everyone at the risk of getting everyone killed?
One could argue that there are no right choices, and that no matter the decision one might choose, the only one that's right is the one you can sleep soundly with and pat yourself on the back for being a "Hero".
I feel like a way they could have team rwby have justifiable reasons for not trusting ironwood is penny, like maybe after some time since the fall of beacon ironwood forced Pietro to rebuild penny but without her memories and makes her more like one of his soldiers. So when team rwby and Co. go to atlas and see penny again but quickly realizes she's not the penny as the from beacon, so in this scenario our heroes are hesitant on trusting ironwood because he brought penny back and turn her into a weapon
The sad truth is it was already there. IN VOLUME TWO…BY THE SAME TWO PEOPLE AFTER THE DANCE FESTIVAL WHEN RUBY FAILS TO CAPTURE CINDER!!! James even PRAISES her for her efforts.
“…you recognized a potential threat. You took ACTION. And you did the best you could.”
I REMEMBER THAT SCENE!!!
It’s almost like a metaphor for the writers: thinking they’re doing good writing, doing everything wrong and then (expecting to) get praise for it.
Art truly imitates life, eh?
@@theSceptile01 And life imitates art
They do get praise by everyone who has the wool over their eyes and can't/won't see what the "Heroes" really do, and are manipulated and gaslit into thinking they're doing good.
The worst part about them turning on Ozpin is that literally none of what Jinn told them was his fault. He literally died, got rezzed, died again and spent the next few thousand* years trying to fix the world his wife broke.
I consider it very bad that they can't show self restraint and resort to being violent when upset, especially when the consequences of that had been rather harshly drummed into them earlier. But then, I didn't make it that far in the series before giving up.
I have to imagine there's a draft version of season 6 where the backstory is different and Oz was the one at fault for what happened, certainly there's a giant amount of foreshadowing that points towards that in every previous season. I had an idea for a rewrite of that sequence where Salem was the one who died and Oz put her in the pools in an attempt to bring her back, turning her into a monster as a result, and was then cursed to reincarnate until he can fix his mistake. He always has been portrayed as something of a shady character, especially in season 3, so it seems like the plan originally was him being responsible for the problems going on, but that isn't really what we got in the end product
@@Fixer_Su3ana To make matters worse, their violence is STILL against a child. And even going "well ozpin's in that child's head so how else are you gonna violence him?", my reply is "if you're not abnormal, even just looking like a child should give you pause. and that IS a child. A child who will suffer the same consequences of being punched as ozpin.".
Like, in every fucking media where an antagonist can shapeshift, if they don't know someone close to their enemy they'll just be a child. And it will still work in giving the hero some pause, even if they know the child's not really a child.
@@chukyuniqul Apparently it is ok if team R/W/BY abuses a kid because their 'upset'. Have any other character do it ......... Not so ok.
Oz is partially at fault. He should never have stuck it in crazy in the first place.
Salem was selfish, manipulative, and evil when he rescued her.
To bad he did not see the red flags.
Hell, all Qrow needed to do was turn into a bird and then travel with Weiss. They don’t even need to prove Qrow has clearance this way, just say it’s her pet bird or something. This is assuming Qrow can maintain his bird form indefinitely or at least long enough for the trip of course.
He probably could have just turned into a bird and sneaked onto a airship.
@@igegoe123 true, there’d be a little risk involved, but that could have worked as well.
Considering his bird form was specifically meant for use in long-term reconnaissance and general spying for Ozpin, I have no doubt he'd have been able to hold it for however long it took to sneak him through. Unfortunately sneaking him through security as Weiss' exotic avian pet would've actually been kind of interesting, which makes it all the more disappointing it wasn't considered....
@@thejasminedragonmerchant6843 Heck, they wouldn't even need to sneak him through as a pet. Weiss was able to sneak Maria onto the airship in one of her bags, and while Maria's not a large person, she's certainly larger than Qrow's bird form.
There have been a number of situations that were easily solvable by Qrow just turning into a bird. Like any time he was arrested.
You forgot one. Before entering Beacon Blake was part of what could be described as a terrorist group and specifically worked with someone who was actively murdering people. She apparently never wore a mask like Adam or Illya to possibly hide her identity. And Ozpin just lets her into the academy with apparently no questions asked. Then when the White Fang the organization Blake was apart of helped destroy the school no one dared question her allegiance after she disappeared. Instead Yang is just beefed that Blake ran away, and never even tried to understand WHY Blake ran away.
Yeah it is pretty messed up.
Well, it's possible that Blake might have been wearing a WF mask for previous missions (just not in the Black Trailer because she may have lost it, or it got destroyed) and I think Yang is right to be angry at her. Blake said she wouldn't run away again after V1 and she did. Blake acknowledges this in show, and thinks her team hates her for it. As for the other students and staff, I'd say they had bigger problems.
@@tmntfangirl6898 Oh I agree. I actually like the idea of redemption for a character arc, and I could see Ozpin blindly trusting Blake because he sees that everyone (but Salem) is worthy of being redeemed because of all the guilt he feels over what he's done. But I don't remember it ever being addressed and that's the problem. The closest we get is Blake working her self to death trying to stop the white fang; that shows her guilt and her hope for redemption, but again that doesn't address the blind trust Ozpin had. I would also agree with your assessment on Yang's reaction; by that point it is clear that Blake isn't a traitor, but in the real world and even other shows that's not what would happen.
@@ninjagirl226 someone would’ve thought it at one point even if it was only a temporary thing that pretty much immediately went away.
Also no it’s not addressed strangely, the most one on one time Ozpin and Blake get together which could’ve provided insight as to why he let her in the school just has her explain why she’s hiding being a Faunus and her spiel about how “I grew up outside of the kingdoms, if you didn’t fight you didn’t survive.”
Redemption in this show is very selective and illogical. Done purely for social media and virtue signalling points. Not only are certain characters eligible for it, it is handled as a complete and utter pardon. All past transgressions forgiven and forgotten. Their turn to the 'good' side even rewarded.
Emerald got it despite having blood on her hands as well as her part in the fall of beacon. Not to mention actively assaulting the heroes mentally and physically.
Illia got it despite running with the more extremes factions of the white fang. No doubt blood on her hands as well. Not to mention assaulting one of the main heroes and attempting to assassinate her family.
Harriet and Elm turned over a new leaf and very likely all will be forgiven and forgotten at their next encounter with RWBY.
As for Neo. No need to guess. Despite having an active role in the fall of beacon, as well as attempted murder of one of the main characters. After a little girl talk on the beach to air out differences and grievances. Neo will flip, and be granted all the aforementioned perks.
On a side note. Almost any male character who flips, seemingly death will soon follow. They usually don't live long enough to enjoy those same aforementioned perks that come with redemption.
Their redemption seems to be relegated to sacrificing themselves for the greater cause.
Just an observation.
Wait, I just realized something... _confusing._
WHY is the ship 'stolen'? Didn't Cordovin, like, give them the, obviously not earned, right to go? Wouldn't that mean she'd have given HQ the heads up about the kids coming? What?!
Im not sure bcs my memory is stuffy but i think ppl dont know cardin gave them a ship, and the staff assumed it was stolen
Apparently she didn't.
She didn't give them the right to go so much as she said "go and I'll pretend I didn't notice." It's like when Dad catches you sneaking a cookie from the jar, but just sort of whistles and looks away; you're still breaking the rules, but he's not telling Mom.
I think she said something along the lines of 'amidst the chaos of the leviathan attack, if one extra ship went missing I think I wouldn't notice' or something so techinically was more looking the other way than giving them the green light to continue.
@@groynin Man, either Cordovin is THAT vindivtive, our main cast VERY STUPID, or the writers really didn't think about the fact that she could have just given them the go-ahead.
There is zero chance of being able to justify sending the refugees to a random spot in a desert wasteland instead of vale or mistral. The only reason the writers chose Vacuo is because that's where the last relic is and the heroes have to go there.
Which makes it all the more baffling as they KNOW there is a relic there that Salem is after....so instead of getting the civilians to safety they are literally putting them at the next location in Salem's path XD
@@Dunedan2 I think everyone can agree that the writing/plot is the worst part of the show.
I’m reminded of Dragon Ball Z Abridged when they bring Piccolo to Namek.
Dende: “He is on Namek.”
Gohan: “Wait where is he?”
Dende: “On Namek”
Piccolo: “YOU DUMBASS!”
Krillin: “why didn’t it bring him “here”?”
Dende: “You must be specific.”
@@thomasraines1396 that makes me think of when rwby and jaune fall off the bridge the relic told them not to fall off but you can bet it's only going to benefit them in some way
@@bradleyedson8596 wow.
the first episode of Ruby being somewhat useless made sense, since she was just a kid. and we can excuse that the ONLY reason that Oz had her advance two grades was the fact that she had silver eyes.
So that ONE part I feel should be a pass, for narrative reasons.
but I agree and CAN'T excuse later fucks ups. Especially when they become official hunters and huntress.
I mean, who in their right mind back stabs the very person that had you graduate and be official hunters and huntresses?
Then ABUSE this power to only make things WORSE?!
"the first episode of Ruby being somewhat useless made sense, since she was just a kid."
To be fair she also did stop the robbery.
@@Hartzilla2007 but didn't captured the criminal.
What a big Foreshadowing.
@@Hartzilla2007 yeah. like MrTrigacho said. they stopped the robbery. but not did not catch Roman, who robbed the majority of dust since then.
it shows she is skilled, but still somewhat inexperienced.
Now she’s experienced, but practically useless in every way.
I'll tell you who does that
A villain
wait we also forgot that in Winter vs Ironwood fight Winter is also a hypocrite, she agree with Ironwood and then she blames him a second later
They'll just say she was just following orders
@@TupocalypseShakur yeah but she agreed to close the border and everything she said was hypocrisy against ironwood
@@luizpkgamer also she the one who suggest martial law to ironwood
@@kienluanngo9337 yeah also that and she blames ironwood
@@luizpkgamer yeah lol i don't know why she pull 180° like that 😂
Finally! Someone speaks of Blake’s attitude in volume 4.
It bothered me for so long thinking that Sun really didn’t do anything bad; yes, he followed her without permission but looking at what he did to get slapped, he helped her save an entire boat of people and tried to warn her of the White Fang and the dangers she and her parents were in.
Really? She'd been stabbed saw Yang maimed, had her abusive ex return to haunt her AND Sun is stalking her. Sun's lucky she didn't kick him in the nuts.
@Maswartz226 Ah, like a good hero. Kicking their close friends in the balls.
I bet your friends just love you, huh?
@@Maswartz226 Oh so abuse is okay if a person is feeling bad? Even though Sun didn’t cause any of those bad things to happen? You are sick, no joke.
She slapped him for spying on her private conversation with her dad. An overreaction sure, but he did do something wrong there.
@@brainflash1 he was trying to tell her about some potential White Fang activity. She doesn’t even apologize for doing, or just treating him like crap in general.
RWBY is a perfect case study of what not to do in character writing and world building in like 90% of cases and it's fantastic to watch it just crash and burn for so many seasons.
The realization that the girls' decisions ultimately led to the one true and absolute destruction of a Kingdom, something that the _villains,_ in eight years of this show, barely accomplished, made me lose it laughing. I love this show and I look back on it fondly, but by _god._
Ad.: I feel like I should clarify that nowhere am I saying that James' plan was good either, nor am I trying to absolve the character of the - albeit _dumb as bricks_ - hand he had in worsening things. The entire situation was ridiculous; I'm just having a hoot over the outcome.
So... What were they supposed to do instead? Just let Mantle, and potentially all of Remnant barring Atlas, die?
Except they really didn't. Ironwood's plan was "rise to the clouds, let the poor people burn". He refused to trust others, and when people did try to reason he got murderous. He was ALWAYS a tyrant and he got what he deserved
I suppose the real question we have to be asking is who should be the first to initiate a relationship of trust if nobody trusts each other? If only one person does so, it leaves them at a disadvantage, and nobody wants to be taken advantage of. Perhaps when multiple parties put themselves in the vulnerable position of extending olive branches can true trust be earned.
The one thing I find weird is that when people demand to be trusted, they expect The Other Side to willingly put themselves in a disadvantageous situation without complaints because they can't trust the Other to not stab them in the back. Meanwhile, the Other demands that they should be put in an advantageous position to show that they can be trusted not to betray the first person.
If both sides do not make themselves vulnerable, and open to dialogue, it will just be an endless cycle of, "No, you first".
@Otneimica Should they have just let Ironwood sacrifice whoever he chooses because it's not "their decision to make"? Because he has some arbitrary power that supposedly gives him the authority to do so, even though he never asked the actual people whether they were okay with it? That's not really the way governments are supposed to work I think...
@Otneimica Um... Did you actually watch the show? They did start trusting him in the middle of V7, enough to tell him about Salem's immortality. I just love it when a critic's narrative about how the show is ever-so-terrible relies on not remembering the actual events of the show lol.
The scene where Blake said she doesn't want "ambush someone who is only trying to help" is so dumb. Of all the characters in this show, she knows best how "trying to do the right thing" does not negate the lives you endanger.
Poor writing * coughing profusely*
Not to mention that they have no real reason to believe that Robyn is "trying to help" in the first place. They know basically nothing about her save for what she's said on the campaign trail, and that she immediately turned to violence to get what she wanted when she lost. Worse, she turned to violence in order to get something that she can't even plausibly use. She allegedly wants to use the supplies she's stealing to fix the wall, but the military is keeping an eye on the wall (even before Robyn started stealing their shit they were still patrolling the thing). Meaning that the moment they attempted to use any of those supplies for the thing Robyn said they were going to use them for, the military would almost certainly just reclaim them and probably have justification to arrest those attempting to make the repairs as accomplices since they would presumably need to have made contact with Robyn and her people to get them.
So even if we put aside that Blake should know better than anyone where this road can lead (and that the team has explicitly condemned Ozpin and distrusted Ironwood for exactly the same thing - having good intentions but making questionable decisions), it still makes them come off as twits for blindly trusting a politician they barely know on nothing but their word because they say things that sound nice.
@@VenathTehN3RD Let it be known that by this point, they knew for a fact that Salem had a spy within the city.
For all any of them knew, Yang and Blake delivered the entire plan to a Salem’s eyes in the city.
She comes off as delusional, but considering it’s Blake I’m not surprised.
@@VenathTehN3RD Following up on this how would anything made to build a new amity help fix a wall? Crap like that is custom made to fit a purpose and would have to be remolded to work for another project and even then what would she have done with the large amount of computer software and hardware amity was going to use? This plan makes no sense because material wouldn’t work from the beginning and anyone who saw them would know that instantly so that whole plot points is BULLCRAP!
I will be forever astounded at RWBY's ability to be the pinnacle of "What NOT to do when making a story" while still being made. It's hilarious how many video essays use it as an example of bad writing and how others can create better stories by avoiding the pitfalls RWBY fell into. There is good writing every so often, but most of the best examples are isolated moments whilst the bad writing is a chain of sequential events culminating in a flashy trash fire. Miles and Kerry probably went into this show thinking they'd write the next Avatar:TLA with epic Monty action, but instead they wrote Season 8 of Game of Thrones if it was an entire show.
It really is a gift to writers in the long term. You can do an entire course on creative writing that is built entirely on how RWBY manages to make the wrong call basically every time. With the little bits that do work giving some verity to the whole thing.
When Monty died, the show died too and it hurts seeing something we all felt was going to be great become....the tirefire we know it as now
This should be an episode on Terrible Writing Advice.
@@shadowednight1600 Actualy he gave his vision to us, its up to us to fallow that steps
My bro, I recommend you to see "Miraculous: Ladybug adventures"
When Ozpin's backstory was told to everyone, I felt bad for him. Being pulled from reviving to dying like he was a toy in the brothers hands. Finally being with Salem only for his quest that the brother gave him to cause Salem to kill their children and him.
Trying his best to counter Salem's forces over the years, even hiding things that would cause everyone to lose hope and panic, understandably so. Only more people would die that way.
Yet RWBY pryed into his entire life without his permission, reopening all of those wounds over centuries. Then proceed to yell and abuse him cause he lied about something that almost had them giving up hope the following episodes, like he predicted.
Even with the Apathy there they still were thinking of "why are we doing this if she can't be killed?'.
I'm surprised that none of them had a shred of empathy after hearing all of that. If they were in his shoes what would they do, cause I don't hear any answers besides confront them and win. Which isn't a plan.
Agreed :(
Fr, it’s so horrible that Ozpin had to go through all his memories/trauma again. Nobody apologized to him, including Qrow as well. He had no right to punch Oscar across the face nor even get all mad at Ozpin for keeping the whole thing a secret. It wasn’t even any of their business to begin with yet they still forced it out of him. Then they betray General Ironwood for wanting to save Atlas over Mantle. He had a plan while team Rwby didn’t. Even if it a good one he still did. They even end up easily forgiving Emerald when she helped Cinder and she even used her semblance on Pyrrah, which ended up killing Penny. It’s really stupid 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Ren was absolutely right. All they've done is make the situation worse.
And note Salem didn't destroy Atlas. She didn't do anything last season. RWBY's crew did. They destroyed Atlas and might as well have allowed the big bad to have 2 out of 4 magical items.
It's madness they are doing more damage than the labeled villains. Like it clearly isn't Salem their world has to worry about.
I'm really really hoping that gets shoved into their faces. Hard.
Edit: And I really really hope, just as Ren did, I hope Jaune is to bury them in that fact.
The moment one of the four dare say "Why did you kill Penny?!" I want him to scream "Because we fucked up. That is all we've ever done since this started. We've fucked things up. We haven't helped anyone."
I want him to tear down all disallusions that their group has been remotely hopeful and they've done more damage than the "villains" ever have.
And if not Jaune, I hope someone does.
Unfortunately, as I have been pointed out. It's doubtful. Highly doubtful it'd happen.
I'ed love it if it was juane
Even Cinder admired it was team RWBY fault for the destruction of Atlas.
And of course, in typical RWBY fashion, they made Ren the bad guy in that situation. God forbid even RWBY’s closest allies point out their incompetence.
They saved the people instead of the place
I think it will happen but it will follow with "No, Jaune, we did what we thought was for the best. We saved all those people."
"You're right Ruby! I'm sorry. It's Ironwood's fault that Penny died, just like it was his fault that Clover died. Curse you Ironwood!"
Crazy how they're piling up more bodies than cinder does on a weekend
Salem would wet herself seeing how much destruction team rwby are doing
If this was realistic they would have a body count in the thousands as they displaced the aforementioned thousands of people in the middle of a desert, with no supplies, no idea how far they are from civilization and surrounded by monsters. But we know all of those random schmucks will either disappear or Team RWBY will still be seen as the heroes.
@@nyhtfall1969 i think thats why Salem and Tyrian smile when Ruby does the global broadcast. Shes the perfect fall villain...
If season 10 reclaims reality and reason with some hard speaking Vacuans with Dune vibes, and a Salem who planned to have eliminated 3 of 4 academies and gathering all her technological and warrior enemies to one place, the show might redeem itself.
@@Peter09876- Winter is there to save them. She's one of the few with a level head. I think?.
@@philippschwarz4539she shouldn’t and Winter has not only never won a fight she seems pretty easy to bait, also the fact she doesn’t have aura, if anything she would’ve been one of the first ones to die.
You know the biggest thing that confuses me the most is why the "heroes" are angry at Ozpin for "keeping secrets" I completely understand the reasons WHY he did and I'm actually sympathetic to his story and here's why
1) why would he tell a bunch of wannabe huntresses and hunters the whole truth when all they were doing was transporting the relic. The rest of the information wouldn't change the mission at hand. In fact it made things worse when they DID learn the truth before they got to atlas
2) ozpin loved Salem but she became evil and wants to destroy the world. I'm sure in the thousands of years Ozpin has been around he came to the realization that despite his love for his wife, she has to be put down. That's not a good thing but its neccessary to keep the world from ending
3) him using the relic to find out how to kill Salem was smart considering that her immortality is not natural so it would probably require supernatural means to kill her and he's gonna need information.
4) ozpin kept all of this a secret........ so what? That's his private life and again it has nothing to do with the mission at hand. Maybe if they waited until they got to Atlas, where it's safe and the relic is secured, that maybe Ozpin could sit them all down and tell them why the relics need to be protected. Considering that Salem is attacking the academies it would be important to know why. And who is Salem really
They call him a basterd and beat him yet none of them acknowledge that salem was his WIFE. Someone whom he loved and saw turned into a monster that needs to be stopped at any cost. They witnessed firsthand how dangerous she is when Beacon fell yet Ozpin is the bad guy for wanting to stop her?
Or am I too analytical on a show written by idiots lol
They also got mad at him over his backstory...
But he was *dead* for most of it. Hell, the Gods even flipped his mortality like a lightswitch at one point, which had to have been traumatic. And then we learn he spent multiple lifetimes a drunken depressed wretch over how *his wife is a demon witch now,* and it was only relatively recently he got his shit in order, *knowing* it was a hopeless battle. He fought a battle that may have been without end because he thought it was the right thing to do.
And he's the bad guy... why?
@@blueline4857 and he's been fighting grimm and her ever since, even making the academies. Something they go to so without him, they wouldn't even have a means to become huntresses. Talk about gratitude lol
Yep, that's when the show hurt me lol. He has LIFETIMES of experiences dealing with Salem, keeping these secrets were probably the best lesson he could afford to do. Then, Imagine watching his life, and feeling absolutely no pity for what he's gone through, and had to do. Of course, if he revealed that she was unkillable, all of humanity's morale would decrease lol
Yeah. The second he said "Don't you think Leo said the same thing?!" (Or something close to that) I thought the girls would recoil and have a moment of realization. I gave the show too much credit
Why should you analyse the trash show in the first place? There's nothing to be analyzed, it's a trash show. That's it.
Team RWBY are the definition of 'Gaslight, Gatekeep and Girlboss'
those sound like decent villain names, ngl
@@christopherbravo1813just a reminder there was going to be a superhero team with members with the names of “Safe Space” and “Snowflake”.
@@thomasraines1396 if I were working at Marvel I would have made them super *villains.*
This just reminds me of when Ren, Watts, and Ironwood skyrocketed to top tier with a lot of fans because they were pointing out the others' flaws and holding them accountable. And considering two out of three are dead, I wonder how they'll carry on if someone else tries to do the same.
Yeah, I call BS on that. Not their popularity, that’s justified. I call out the fact that the characters state the obvious flaws when in reality, IT WAS US.
By that logic, Ren might be in danger. Nora is trying to separate herself from him, and his death would certainly help that process. Not saying it's going to happen, but I won't be surprised if it does.
@@callofhaloinfinite6336 Ruby is blessed by the god of light with the silver eyes, that brings death to anyone that doesn't accept her world views and is beyond any form of redemption (From her PoV).
On second thought it sounds more like a curse from the god of darkness... :/
@@lynxfresh5214- bs = U
@@callofhaloinfinite6336 if they actually do that then the Renora shippers are gonna lose their minds. Doubly so because Ren was sorta Monty's character so killing him off might be interpreted as another disrespect to Oum's legacy which will certainly fueltothe burning recycling plant that is the Current RWBy fandom.
The only way RT is going to salvage Team RWBY's failed attempt at being heroes is if Volume 9 actually acknowledges how badly they fucked up in Atlas and the girls actually fight among one another over who fucked up the most, and then RWBY has a legit mental breakdown seeing Penny's dead body, if Penny's dead body is anywhere to be seen. Actually have the heroes suffer consequences for their actions and point out how their moral high ground way of doing things was stupid. It won't make up for how badly they messed up Team RWBY's 'characters' and it won't make up for all of the bad Volume 8 did, but at the very least, I'd respect the showrunners a little bit more if they actually have Team RWBY acknowledge their mistakes and actually, you know, GROW as characters from it. XP
But they did suffer consequences. They’re stuck in another world and have to find their way home.
Lol
@@bgvo4373 If any of them WANT to find their way home. Maybe they’ll meet some Sirens there that keep them from leaving kinda like the Apathy but not as gloomy lol.
You STILL have respect for the showrunners? You’re a better person than I am.
@@bgvo4373 Bull, that is not the consequences we are talking about. I’m definitely sure the team are not gonna treat it like that, this is a new adventure more than anything to them.
Team RWBY is how rich entitled kids see the world, it has to be about them specifically, any other worldview or possibility that they disagree with is a threat
And that worst part: The mentality, is being pushed at the RIGHT thing to do. Not as a failing they have to overcome. They're entire character, reeks of "I'm perfect, it's the world that needs to change!"
The sheer pretentiousness of it all is sickening.
Protagonist-Centered Morality literally plagues this show lol
Kinda like toxic fans. I know most Rwby fans are not like that. But it is hard to avoid the toxic ones on Twitter.
Funny Enough... The "Heroes" acting horribly / doing horrible things and getting rewarded for it and those who oppose them or try to tell them otherwise is EXACTLY what the Toxic Fans and Creators of the Fandom have done and are doing.
Very fitting with both RTs political and general worldview, and the audience they tried to court...
the way Blake treats sun... I can't imagine any self respecting guy tolerating that
At least he eventually got away from all the abuse.
@@Tediez_the_honored_one I’m fine with it seeing as how Blake and Yang are both awful people, they deserve each other.
@@thomasraines1396 They really that bad? I'm just asking, since I don't know that much about their characters. Just don't get me wrong.
@@О.Р.О.К.И.Н they’re both pretty bad in my opinion. Do want to me to go more in depth?
@@thomasraines1396 I wouldn’t mind a small lesson in doucheology
I can imagine the Gods just watching their actions and treating it all like a comedy.
Honestly fuck the gods. They started this ness in the first place the moment they turned Salem immortal instead of nuking her ass. Technically the entire series is all of humanity being left behind to deal with their mess.
It be an interest plot if team RWBY becomes the next girls cursed with immortality when the gods come back and has hit the reset button
@@TheLastSterling1304
So, the whole Remnant world is a game to them
@@randomblacktemplar738 Well they are gods , and gods do be like that.
@@TheLastHylianTitan If not for who the show was written by, you could almost deem that clever for current era. Those with power leaving the world's problems for the meek masses. Common worry for the current and upcoming generations.
The thing that always upset me, Is you went to Ironwood for help! But you don't trust him? Than Why Are You Going To Him FOR HELP!?!
You can't expect anything worth a damn from these writers, they can't remember anything they set up.
Because Ozpin told them...oh wait, they don't trust him either! The show needs to be remade from scratch, it can't be fixed anymore.
LMFAO
That’s Easy; to HELP themselves to his resources and status as a world leader to get others to fight Salem for them.
I think what they tried to do was make it so that after they saw the state of Mantle, they started to wonder if they made a mistake. But it's very poorly conveyed.
What should have happened is that if they saw Mantle in disarray - Atlas troops forcing people back and forth between work and home, or arresting people for looking at them wrong - one of the characters could then say, "Maybe we should've gone somewhere else?" or something to the effect of showing that they're suddenly not so sure that Ironwood is going to be helpful.
And even then, that would've been helped if in Season 6, instead of JNR doing the exact same thing RWBY already did with pitching a fit about Ozpin's lies, they had sat down and discussed what they wanted to do, eventually deciding that even though they still don't know what to think about Oz, Ironwood is still the most suited to aid them, and the group deciding (with some like Yang or Jaune being very reluctant about it) to still head for Atlas, not because they're following Ozpin, but because it's the best option available to them, as Atlas would be the best defended kingdom and most suited for helping them. It would've allowed each of the characters to give a bit more of their personal opinions, allowed them to actually look like they consider other options, and at least helped them look a tad more mature.
Obviously, of course, that didn't happen. But there is still fanfiction rewrites.
Out of curiosity, would my idea above need more work? I've been trying to write either a rewrite of RWBY or a version based on RWBY but with my own OCs, and I want to make sure I don't fall into the same holes Miles and Kerry did. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated; the last thing I want is for my OCs to behave the way RWBY did.
Thank you for your time and have a great day. :)
Honestly, it was such a cathartic moment when James called out RWBY on their lying. However, we can't have another character call out on our heroes' bullshit, so we gotta dehumanize them.
Edit: It does make me cringe how blatantly hypocritical RWBY are, especially on when they get mad at Ironwood for lying about Amity to take out Watts. Have the writers forgotten Watts is on Team Evil?
There's also the fact they try to paint the White Fang, an in-universe civil rights organization, as bad for being violent...despite solving literally all of their problems with violence.
The real annoying part is how the fandom pretends nothing is wrong. The loud minority (or is it now majority?) is drowning out any and all criticism.
However, I get the writers are trying to make Team RWBY seem more morally ambiguous, but it falls flat on its face.
Team WTCH* well… I guess now it’s team CT. when did we start playing counter strike?
@@conortheslayer
Probably why they called them Team Evil.
Ruby could have easily asked the naked genie man for an antivirus for Penny, or a jar to permanently seal Salem in (nullifying the greatest threat to humanity), or some minor terraforming to prevent TWO Major Population Centers from getting Atlantis'd, or an entire army of robots to fight the Grimm, Or.... Anything really.
But instead she makes the canon plan that's so convoluted that her now-human friend dies (I don't even think she lives long enough to eat anything), Atlas AND Mantle get destroyed, the population of that city gets displaced to a different city that is TOTALLY prepared to take on that many refugees. Oh, and Salem still exists, because she can tank blasts that can arguably border on thermonuclear weaponry.
Though with Heroes like these, Salem doesn't need to do anything.
That's yet another problem of writing in this show. The first genie had very specific rules and limitations (although it stills doesn't explain why they didn't use the last question to ask how to stop Salem).
The second genie however never really explains what the limits are. They could have done so much with his power, he is basically a god. But no.
@@GerardMenvussatechnically the limit is that they have to tell him the exact specifications of what they want, they have to know how to make it themselves. Plus there’s that “only one creation can exist at a time” thing.
@@theheroneededwillette6964and yet Penny got a new flesh and blood body simply because they told him to “get creative” when he was seemed legitimately cornered as to what the end result would be since he didn’t have enough to go off of.
@@theheroneededwillette6964 well limitless engery is on the table so an auto manufactury of warmachines and ships that speedruns the process sounds reasonable in comparison
Also, we have to remember that Oscar was also a victim here as that punch would've hurt both Ozpin and Oscar as well as RWBY, JNR and Qrow all mainly seeing him as just another vessel for Ozma, not even sugarcoating the fact that the poor farm boy could potentially lose who he was (and the whole thing of Jaune pinning him to the wall). It feels like this was just ignored and Oscar came to terms with it off-screen.
And making Penny human ultimately was pointless because she died soon after and by making her human, she can't come back. Pietro permanently lost his daughter and making her human flies in the face of her development which was that even though she wasn't human from a technical standpoint, she still possessed humanity and can make choices for herself.
Indeed
Penny's tail is Pinocchio, if the story you based on ends you die apparently
mechanicus intro plays
We have to remember that possibly losing your own self to another person's soul and being hunted for it was Pyrrha's huge fear in volume 3.
And the writing completely forgets this even though Oscar didn't even have a choice on it.
@@milhy6567
Indeed
"Is mayonnaise an instrument?"
This question makes more sense than most of RWBY's decisions.
“I thought you said ‘Weast’.”
This quote is smarter than a single thought any of team RWBY has had since volume 3.
An instrument is a device created or adapted to make musical sounds.
Mayonnaise can make musically sounds.
Mayonnaise is an instrument
@@justasentientmclarenp1879 What about horseradish?
@@GoldmansNephew Hit something with it and you got a percussion instrument.
It’s funny to me how Volume 8 turned from everybody trying to stop Salem from destroying Atlas to a race to see who can destroy Atlas first lol, and I guess team RWBY won
"Salem can't destroy Atlas if we do it first!" possibly Ruby.
More like a race to destroy Mantle since Ironwood wants to save Atlas. And Yeah, Team RWBY won because they killed two birds with one stone or killed two birds by smashin them to each other
@@saofanidwi I'm dying trying to imagine someone smashing a bird with another bird 😂
If the writers wanted to write flawed heroes, that would’ve been fine, HOWEVER the narrative would have to treat their flaws and screw ups like they’re actually flaws and screw ups.
This is why the fanfics are better in almost every way now.
a dungeon master ai could come up with a better story than roosrerteeth writers at this point.
@ǞЯƮΦЯiǞ РęПDЯǞgΦП Hinata is FINE as she is in the show…
@ǞЯƮΦЯiǞ РęПDЯǞgΦП That’s kind of the point with her…
They really aren’t, more often than not turn out to be extremely cringy and horribly written, makes the main show look like a masterpiece by comparison
@ǞЯƮΦЯiǞ РęПDЯǞgΦП Never said it was. ;)
What makes Blake slapping Sun even worse is the fact her being slapped by Adam was seen as some cruel act of a heartless insane monster (which is perfectly fine), but Blake can do it and we as the audience are meant to find it “funny”. She also never apologizes for treating him like crap.
Also Blake letting Adam run from Haven like a dumbass is in no way defendable. Why in the absolute hell would she do that when she heard from the man himself he’s going to “destroy everything you love”?
Cordo using the mech was stupid I will admit, but she wasn’t a character, she was a caricature, a walking pile of ham, so of course she was going to do something insanely stupid all in the name of showing how “crazy” she was. That’s the problem with a good majority of the villains in the show: they ham them up in the name of making Team RWBY look better simply by comparison.
Ruby makes the declaration that “we didn’t need adults to save us” and comes off as complete and utter delusion: 1. Yang was saved by Raven from Neo in Volume 2. 2. All of Team RWBY had to be saved by the older students/professors at the end of Volume 2. 3. The only reason Ruby was there to say that is because Qrow stopped her from being taken by Tyrian in Volume 4. Maria mere episodes ago saved Ruby, Weiss, Blake and Yang from Grimm as she told Ruby how to use her silver eyes.
Yang whining to Ironwood about his lie which he used to lure out Watts reminds me of a quote from “Red Dead Redemption”: “You hear that Marston? We just butchered a gang of thieves, and the town is up in arms about a missing snake oil merchant. I’m so glad to be serving a such a wise and respectable people.”- Marshal Leigh Johnson.
Sending the people of Atlas and Mantle to Vacuo was insanely stupid: not only do they not have any supplies, not only do they not know where they are in relation to civilization, not only do they only have a handful of protectors (who are either out of power or should be running low on it at the very least), not only do the citizens of Atlas and Mantle come from a extremely cold place (so just plopping them all in a desert is the worst thing that could be done) but also Vacuo is meant to be a barely survivable shit hole (this is made very apparent because it's like the books can't go five minutes without mentioning how dangerous the place is), the people that live there struggle to live. Do they honestly expect us to think a place like that is going to be able to accommodate thousands of more people? That’s not even getting into the different Grimm that inhabit the area (like the big sand worm things which are basically the worm from Dune or Beetlejuice)
Team RWBY’s journey is just them meandering around failing but being praised.
They should do what “Spec Ops: The Line” did where the main character comes to the realization he’s utterly delusional and simply made things worse.
Also when I think of RWBY and their gaggle of hanger ons I’m reminded of a Dragon Ball Z abridged quote: “Our, ahem, “heroes””.
That’s double standards for you.
Yeah I agree the whole Sun slapping moments I seen fans either find it funny or bumblebee shippers saying "Yeah, that's what Sun gets for stalking and butting it etc". Blake never even apologize to him for the slapping.
@@mauriceisaac3646 the series is chalk full of them.
What’s worse is that she was actually fighting Adam.
RIGHT?? AND THEN BLAKE'S VA DEFENDED HER SAYING "SHES A VICTIM OF ABUSE, SO SHE GETS A FREE PASS!!"
no. thats not how that works. victims of abuse dont get to abuse other ppl. thats how u create more abuse victims. its genuinely sickening how blake is being written as the hero, and sun is also the punchline
I think the main reason why they didn't trust Ironwood was because Mantle looked awful. But Mantle frankly didn't look too bad, it was 'tell don't show ' all over again. Thus it was hard to take RWBY's reasoning for not trusting Ironwood seriously.
Also haven't like, the majority of them never been to atlas/mantle? (Or haven't been in a while?) How do they know if mantle doesn't look that way all the time, just with less security around?
I was laughing at that part because Mantle looks so much better than my hometown
A interaction I had with Kerry did confirm that, they just didn't make it clear in the show.
@@igegoe123 This is something I also hate from RT. They expect you to buy and get infos outside the show just to understand the plot in the first place. Thats a very bad written show if you have to buy books and go to conventions and ask them direct questions because they arent capable to portray the story in the first place. I also think they dont think about those things and when someone asks they can easily add the typical "Oh we didnt have time" "Oh we will add more info about that in X bonus book." BS-excuses. They arent thinking about the story they just act like they were so it isnt thaaat obvious that they are writing without thinking.
"Mantle looked horrible! There were some drunk people standing around that insulted one of my friends! And you had law enforcement actually out *doing* things instead of just leaving it to random teenagers in their first year of learning how to do their job! And you arrested us after we didn't do anything but illegally infiltrate your city after evading authorities in a stolen military airship and running around fighting grimm without authorization, almost like a bunch of half-trained kids running around getting into fights could potentially interfere with the people who are actually professionally trained to do that! Obviously this is too suspicious!"
Honestly, that seems to be the mindset the protagonists have. If the writers were actually competent, I could see that making for an interesting storyline. Most of RWBY's career so far has involved them disregarding authority and taking action on their own, with Ozpin repeatedly enabling that behavior by making excuses for them and letting them off the hook. It could actually be a neat little character arc to depict them as genuinely thinking that what was going on in Mantle was excessive because they're used to living in a place where there's far less police presence (the most we see in Vale, even during the invasion, is a handful of detectives), and authorities are much more wiling to let vigilante actions slide. It'd be a good opportunity for the characters to learn and grow by experiencing one of the different types of legal and cultural environment they might have to work in someday.
But the writers want to have their heroic rebels resisting the evil, fascist military state, so dammit, they're going to insist that everything is horrible even if they can't be bothered to actually think of a way to show it (and in spite of the same military being depicted as a positive force that the protagonists respect and admire in literally every appearance prior to when they decided they wanted to tell a "military BAD!" story).
"Lets antagonize a mayor support character while the main villains home moved into the neighborhood."
-RWBY Writing team
Ruby: “We did it Team RWBY! We saved the city! Just think what might’ve happened if we just stood by and did nothing.”
(Meanwhile, the city burns behind Team RWBY)
The end of every fighting game and Marvel movie be like:
I’m picturing that one scene from SpongeBob with bikini bottom on fire but replace it with RWBY.
Basically that one sponge bob episode forgot its name
@@Germanalbanianman2 the episode is called “Wormy”.
@@thomasraines1396 thanks I have not watched spongebob in forever still Patrick is more intelligent than all of team rwby
These guys have been reduced to sniveling brats with the most backwards, hypocritical morals ever made. The kid wanting ice cream comparison and throwing a tantrum if they don't get it is highly appropriate.
Suzaku Kururugi from the Code Geas Abridged has better morales than whatever team RWBY has, and the guy's morale compass is that of a Roulette Wheel
Just remember, Team RWBY's morals are a reflection of the writing team's morals.
@@vardiganxpl1698 Even his canon-self has more dignity than Team RWBY!
The show should've died when Monty Oum did. The fight choreo was 75% of RWBY's appeal - without his talents, the writing and animation had to carry. Meanwhile, we can see clearly that the writing staff are fucking hacks and somehow the show got uglier over time.
@@jasminelav.332 Stopped watching after season three. This just confirms it turned into a complete shit show.
RWBY: I WANT IT THAT WAY
Qrow: TELL ME WHY?
RWBY: ...
Qrow: what's wrong?
RWBY: v-v-VILLAIN
XD No dissent will be tolerated towards Dear Leader Ruby.
That setup be like: ua-cam.com/video/yUpJaiKXfvM/v-deo.html
@@nevisysbryd7450 Perfect XD
“Anyone who tells them no is the bad guy, doesn’t matter how close they are!”
DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner, folks! Someone with an audience GETS IT! The writers literally believe this about the characters they write!
The only way to escape Team RWBY and their gaggle of hanger on’s criticism is by falling in line like a good little sheep.
Are you kidding me? And they don't even try to fix it?
@@NiteSteel000 There is the one time their choice is internally questionable, but it gets subverted by the other guy becoming worse and threatening to do a mass casualty event
So basically, even if they are ever objectively making a wrong choice, the opposition is either worse than it or at fault for it.
Yeah and after V9.. I’ve officially given up. The scene of them reflecting to their past selves was the BEST opportunity to address their issues.. yet they all(except Ruby) got softballed with questions about issues that they’ve LITERALLY never had.
Weiss has never cared about being free of her name, that’s literally never been a thing with her.
Blake has never battled between wanting to be human or a cat.. all she’s ever wanted was equality for her race. Again… WHAT??
Yang’s is just.. I’m not even gonna waste my breath on it.
These girls are guilty of so much hypocrisy, self righteousness, factual mistakes yet NONE of it is brought up.
#DontgreenlightV10 because id rather something I love just go away rather than watching it constantly burn and be ridiculed for being such a bad show. That or bring it back with a different studio and more importantly, WRITING team. IQ showed that team rwby as characters are only hard to write for the actual show-runners lmao.. which is hilarious.
Fr!
And it makes me so mad how the fans start on berating people who say the truth just because it’s their favorite show/character
During your list of all the times RWBY got told "no" by an authority, I noticed a pattern. Whenever RWBY get told no, it's by someone painted to be incompetent. Ironwood went from "general who has doubts but can be counted on" to "psycho", Cordovin is a petty nutjob over cashews, the authority is always undermined.
What did the writers say about the criticisms they got for their writing? They said, several times, "we get a lot of feedback, some of it is good/constructive, but some of it is rude, so that makes it hard to listen to any of the feedback". For years, the writers have been doing to their conflicts what they did to feedback; undermine it.
There are fans who said "yo, ice cream and ketchup for dinner at your place? I'm in!" And there are fans who said "guys, my stomach still hurts from the last time we did that; I'm down for junk food, but can we at least eat it right, or not mix the ketchup into the ice cream?"
The parallel between the writing team and the heroes wanting it their way or the highway and demonizing any opposition is so apparent to me now, it's shocking. There can't be any sympathy for a bad guy, there can't be any truth to the critique of the audience; the bad guy is a genocidal general, the audience is raving mad, either for us or against us.
What's crazy is that, in their attempts to make the store-brand equivalent to Avatar: The Last Airbender (which I only recently watched, so I'm not nostalgia blind on this), they've done all the important lessons wrong. ATLA humanizes every side, showing that there are corrupt people in the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribe, but also good people in the Fire Nation; heck, even Azula is sympathetic, she's a child soldier of an actual crazy person. RWBY turns good guys into bad guys just so they can have more bad guys to not do anything with; half of Salem's Council just died, and they still made the Ace Ops and Ironwood turn heel. ATLA had the heroes lose and deal with the consequences of their actions, as well as dealing with their personal hangups (Aang running from things, Katara and Sokka with their mom's death and dad's absence); RWBY wins even when they lose (remember how Blake abandoned Yang, whose entire backstory is based on her abandonment issues, after Blake's ex cut off Yang's arm, and then just shows back up into the team's waiting arms to end up in a relationship a volume after her return?). Heck, even the idea of "finish the show before expanding the universe" isnt being observed: card games, fan made games, books, manga, comic book tie ins with the Justice League, board games, RWBY chibi, that RWBY fairy tales thing, a different mobile game set in Atlas with the stuff that probably should have been in the show; every new project I see, I think "man, these people just really dont want to sit down and iron out this plot". They're just now coming out with an ATLA ttrpg; I'd wager we'll get RWBY's equivalent "Dungeons and Huntresses" before volume 10, right after they announce the live action movie that's basically a shot for shot remake of volume 1.
Talk about self-inserts, the production of this show is a fan fiction of the production of ATLA: "people doubted our passion project, but we didnt let that stop us, we championed rights and issues in children's media, made a modern fairy tale about war, and created a beloved multimedia empire of merch and art and characters people will talk about for years after we're done. Except ours also has guns!"
Their guns are useless! The Fire Nation has better “Fire” arms. 😏
@@darthkai3621 And fire feet!
@@jaketionary2543 and fire _breathing_ thanks to Uncle Iroh 💀
Talking about side projects,just like they don't iron out the mains series I have heard multiple times that RT just ditch every video game they do. Grimm Eclipse? Add team JNPR aaaaand.... That was it. No other team made it in, not even single characters like Penny for example
I feel like Ren and Watts and Ironwood yelling at the cast is symbolic of fan criticism, and RWBY's reactions and decisions is the RT crew handling those criticisms.
RWBY: But we're team RWBY. We don't quit just because we're wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing until it turns out right.
I understood that reference XD
@@jonathanboyd7327 And I love you for it 😂
Oh my lord, you just opened up a can of good old memories for me with that
That's my strategy's to Chemistry multiple choice tests
Boondocks FTW😄
Ironwood was right, you can't save everyone but save as many as you can and mourn those you couldn't, it's literally 0art of being a hero
Also war.
Funny, a Spider Man Comic said the same thing in a way.
ua-cam.com/video/djDgz8JGV6A/v-deo.html
"So obviously we need to jump to a FEDERAL CRIME"
Damn near shot milk out my nose
I will never forget that time Weiss used her Semblance on a drunk guy and made him fall on his back from more than 10 feet in the air.
Like yes the dude was being racist but he was also drunk. Weiss and Blake are trained warriors.
That'd be like if a drunk guy said, "Fuck mutants", and Cyclops fucking blasted him.
She used her fucking superpowers on an Aura-less civilian! Theres no justification for that!
Exactly it’s crazy, yeah the guy was a prick but Weiss (and Cyclops) clearly overpower them in every conceivable way, them resorting to using their powers to solve the problem, instead of I don’t know ignoring it shows them as really petty.
It could've been made into a nice moment where Weiss and Blake walk away from the drunk guy and show that they're mature enough to not take public slander to heart. Instead, nah! I guess Weiss is allowed to attack civilians now if they insult her teammates while clearly under the influence of a mental capacity-affecting substance like alcohol. Without Aura unlocked and Semblance active, humans in the RWBY universe can still clearly get hurt, so her doing this could've potentially *killed* him since he fell back-first from a decent height, too....
@@thejasminedragonmerchant6843 He would have been crippled for life
Well, just to play devil's advocate, one could easily make an argument for "don't poke the bear"... but, hey - each to their own.
@@PeteTheGrouch he was drunk.
Ironwood wanted to protect the staff, team rwby wanted to protect the people. there was literally nothing stopping them from doing both other than the plot demanding conflict.
It feels like a CW show.
@@thomasraines1396 a shitty cw show at that
@@Germanalbanianman2yeah.
@@thomasraines1396 written by chat gpt in 2 seconds
@@Germanalbanianman2 what?
There are three constants in this world.
Time will pass
RWBY will always be a valuable tool on what not to do
And Critter will giggle at some point in her video and it will be super charming.
Weiss vs Marrow
Weiss: “this is my home and I’m not giving it up without a fight”
Also Weiss: I agree with letting atlas drop
Would have been cool to see how much she was against this idea considering this was her “home”. Maybe even let it lead to a different use of the staff, or at least a smarter plan.
Then v9:
Lost her home
Rwby's story writing has no flexibility to it. The writer's come up with the basic story and then force the pieces (I.e. characters, world building, etc.) to fit in it. Then after realising the pieces as are don't fit in the plot, instead of doing what a good writer would do and change the plot, they take a file and resize the pieces to fit inside. I hope that analogy made sense
As a writer myself, I completely agree with this. Like in all of my storytelling writing classes we were taught that if the pieces aren't fitting like they're supposed to, use them in a way that does and stays true to what you're doing. Don't ruin what you already have to get the result you want which is how I feel the show is going
"The writer's come up with the basic story and then force the pieces (I.e. characters, world building, etc.) to fit in it."
That is how I feel about the illogical way the CCT was made. One falls and all the others don't work just as a way to keep the Kingdoms divided and increase tension for their weird message, while also making no logical sense.
This is also my hold up. I want to write stuff, but I can only come up with the big moments. All the little things that ned to make sense, like character motivation and worldbuilding, are very hard to keep track of/have organically flow into what I want to happen.
RT is like "fuck that"
@@adamzielke3541, I find character motivation and worldbuilding to be easy. But I don't know how to do small moments between the big stuff or how they get to the big stuff, but I still try to find a way to make it work by trying to build bridges between each piece of the puzzle, fleshing it out as I go along and making it work while also making sure none of it feels forced. Removing pieces that don't work and replacing them with pieces that do.
RT still doesn't do any of that.
RWBY: Ironwood your plan is crazy !
Ironwood: Oh so do you have a better idea?
RWBY: just wing it?
Ironwood: ... Get out.
I guess Ruby really listened to Roman when he said that the only way to go in this world is "Lie, steal, cheat and survive"
Cool video btw, never thought about this before
Roman Torchwick: "I'm so proud of you Little Red."
Unfortunately Ruby doesn’t have Roman’s over the top camp.
Perhaps Roman's ghost has possessed her.
I used to be so excited that Qrow was the adult overseeing team RWBY and JNR, but when he, a full grown adult, hit Ozcar, a young teen, after he got angry at Ozpin for "lying", I started to really hate Qrow.
He had hardly had any reason to be so furious at Ozpin, and to hit the face of a basically a child, when Qrow is a full grown man, just made me start to really despise the character.
I literally don't know how the writers haven't felt the need to have some kind of meaningful conclusion about Qrow hitting Ozcar. It's baffling and makes me having Qrow being my favourite to Qrow being my most disliked and that's a pretty high bar.
Qrow could’ve died in Volume 4 and nothing would really be lost, hell the only time he was useful was when he saved Ruby and the rest from Tyrian.
It’s really fucked up that literally the only character who even attempts to apologize for treating Oscar like crap is Jaune and even then he gets brushed off.
A long time coming but freaking worth it. I bet in the next volume, when Team RWBY hears about Atlas and Mantle being destroyed, they will blame all this on Cinder despite the fact fact they are the dumbasses who not only forgotten about her but caused the entire mess in the first. It’s amazing that the villains haven’t destroyed a single city and yet RWBY destroyed not one but TWO in a single damn volume. Thank you so much for a well informed video, Critter.
Hahahahaha
Its funny because Cinder DOES have the power to destroy everything and everyone…but she doesn’t need to do that. RWBY got that covered with sheer stupidity and reckless behavior XD
Oh god…good thing i left the fandom after v5 in going to the Precure Fandom instead cause WOW! Seeing this all play out, WOW they f**ked it up…and they STILL blame the baddies for it??? I…I don’t see the logic here =A=
@@curepanda2646 looking for new fandoms to join; is the Precure fandom good?
@@taylorslade8080 eh. So so =v=
Its a mixed bag but overall, we get along fine regardless of our opinions on who’s the best and/or worst seasons of the franchise.
Not even just a city, a whole country literally doesn't exist anymore and everyone got displaced
@@t3ch5upp0rt8 Didn’t most of them evacuated from that portal thingy? Oh riiiight…some of them fell to their deaths because of Cinder ^^;
Others are just panicking in various realms. Oddly enough, the RWBY team [and Jaune and Neo] didn’t fell to their deaths compared to the extras. They ended up in some island…plot armor =^=
Ruby loves to say that "We should work together" and stuff like that but what she really means is that "We should work together but only if it's under my terms and done my way." People on the same side as her like Ironwood are treated as villains for disagreeing with Ruby, this even extended to Yang in Volume 8... So she decides to steal an airship, Jaune's sisters decide to commit actual treason by abetting her and she damages the Atlas mech... The funny thing about the mech and the airship is that both of these things are crimes that Roman Torchwick committed but Ruby treats these moments like they're morally right... She is not just a My way or the Highway kind of hero, she's basically a Karen, stealing from the company and wanting to break the law to see the manager.
Agreed
I love this hypocrisy (That many have already pointed out).
*Raven: Leads are tribe of bandits, those said bandits tried to beat up Yang, the tribe also kidnaps Weiss and this is the same woman that abandoned her own family (Plus who knows what other crimes she's committed).
Ruby: "Work with us"
*Ironwood: Leads the largest military on the planet, is in same circle as Qrow, gave Yang her new prosthetic arm, helped fight off the Grimm invasion of Vale and even stood up for Weiss against her father at the charity event (Plus even Weiss' sister trusts him).
Ruby: "Let's lie to Ironwood"
WTF!?!
@@lynxfresh5214 I think the worst one is Emerald. Ironwood has done everything in his power to try to help people, but he's not perfect and has made mistakes while put into an insanely difficult position. When his prediction came true, and staying to fight ended up putting them all in a situation where they were effectively trapped and unable to win, Ruby still condemned him and even added in her message to Remnant that he couldn't be trusted.
Emerald willingly followed Cinder and Salem's plans. She willingly helped orchestrate the invasion of Vale and destruction of Beacon. She willingly aided in the crimes and terrorist activities of Torchwick and the White Fang. She willingly helped frame Yang on worldwide television. She willingly ensured Penny's death in her match with Pyrrha. Ruby has lost *multiple* friends due to both Emerald's direct and indirect actions, and while we never hear specific casualties, it's likely that the various attacks she's been involved with have caused at least hundreds of casualties and thousands of injuries. Yet when Emerald betrays Salem purely in the name of self-preservation (and doesn't seem shy about admitting it), Ruby and Co. accept her with open arms. It takes them all of a matter of hours (if that) to completely forgive the actions that Emerald knowingly and willingly took part in and only stopped doing in order to save her own ass, while James is forever irredeemable because he dared to try to save people in a way that Team RWBY didn't agree with and wasn't delusional enough to ignore the reality that they likely couldn't save everyone.
But Emerald is a cute anime girl, so I suppose that doesn't count in the eyes of the writers.
@@VenathTehN3RD Emerald was totally set up since the beginning to have a heel face turn. They just totally forgot that she should have to work for it.
@@amandaslough125 Yep. It's a consistent problem with RWBY's writing, and one that a lot of fans love trying to fall back on when you point out problems with the story. It seems like an increasingly common misconception in the fandom that "foreshadowing" and "development" are interchangeable. And the thing is, her initial turn wasn't particularly poorly set up. It makes sense for characters like her and Mercury, who have no real personal investment in Salem's plans, to NOPE right the hell out when they realized that she plans to wipe out humanity, and to tag along with the protagonists if they're the ones with a ride out of there. The writers just flubbed it by having everyone forgive her (and her flip into genuine hero mode) over the course of a single episode that covered a span of *maybe* a couple of hours.
It reminds me a lot of when Game of Thrones ended and you had some fans desperately trying to defend some of the poor choices made in the final season by saying that those things were foreshadowed, as if foreshadowing excuses the eventual execution being rushed and poorly thought out.
that one spongebob meme going "we did it patrick, we saved the city!" as everything burns down
It occurred to me whilst watching this (around the 8:00 mark):
Huntsmen don't come in pairs. They come in Fours. So either Dudley has to go and tell his other two teammates that they've lost one of their Team, or he's the LAST of his team.
And our 'Heroes' yelled at him for doing the necessary thing. (Which is an interesting point in and of itself. RWBY doesn't run on "Do what is Right, not what is Easy', but on 'Do what is necessary, not what is 'Right'.')
Actually, they said back in Vol 1 that teams don't have to stay together after graduation. They could've separated on their own. Like maybe the train company only wanted to hire 2. But yea, poor guy.
No wonder people like the villains more, THEY KNOW THEIR DAMN ROLE AND THEY DO THEIR DAMN JOB!!!
…are you sure about that?
@@MisteRRYouTuby Do they do evil and cause mass panic and hysteria and sometimes enjoy their evildoing? If your answer is yes, even if it's on majority, then there ya go.
Also, did ya not get the reference?
The villains have motivation and goals and somewhat relatable background,they also suffered failure and losses (rip torchwick). Villains are more developed and interesting tbh.
@@JanizMakudomaru let me guess. Mmmmmm. A red gem with sliver, a black cat who likes to run away, Goldilocks who fights, and snow white with daddy issues.
To quote Merasmus the Magician; "Most villains don't think they're evil. They think they're heroes. Not me. I'm reclaiming it: EVIL WIZARD! I'm rotten to the bone, and I don't care who knows it!"
Honestly, the only way I see the writers actually fixing the main cast is by having the island literally be a version of Hel from Norse mythology. Confront them with the consequences of their actions. All of their actions in the show. Show Blake smacking Sun next to Jacque smacking Weiss. Show all the destruction and death their actions have caused. They need to own up to their mistakes otherwise the fan base will end up hating them more. The biggest difference in a hero and a villain in any storytelling is that the villain doesn’t usually care about who their actions effect so long as it furthers their goals. A hero will always care who their actions will effect.
It’s also insulting as an audience member to constantly have the script tell me who should be in the right rather than have me come to that conclusion myself. There’s a reason that the words protagonist and antagonist exist. The protagonist is not a “hero,” the protagonist is literally the character that we follow through the majority of the story. The antagonist is not a “villain,” they are simply the character that stands on the way of the protagonist in their journey. Thanos is the Protagonist of Infinity War, while the Avengers are the Antagonists of the movie. However, we as the audience are given the chance to decide whether or not Thanos is a villain.
RWBY, however, explicitly tells us time and time again that Team RWBY is good and anyone who disagrees is bad and as a writer, I FUCKING hate it.
Either Hel from Norse mythology or something like nine circles of hell from Dante's Inferno?
"However, we as the audience are given the chance to decide whether or not Thanos is a villain." I mean, maybe, but one would have to be pretty stupid to think he isn't. A genocidal madman who doesn't cackle in delight at the deaths he causes is still a genocidal madman. If anything, he's even worse than the average genocidal madman in fiction, because limitations are null and void to him once he gets the Stones. He could use them to help the people that are supposedly struggling with resources. But that's not his grand vision. Because he's a villain.
@@damkylan3 yes it would be foolish for someone to think he’s not the villain, but the difference is that they don’t smack us over the head with shitty “villain” dialogue. He just has dialogue explaining his character and motivations. RWBY just tells us explicitly who is supposed to be the villain and who is supposed to be the hero’s. There’s no room for nuance or subtlety.
There is a problem with expecting this. RT doesn't have a single moral bone between them. Can't expect someone with bad morals to be able to write a character with good morals. RT are kinda shit people and team RWBY reflects that.
@@propheinx2250 In the beginning, they were decent. Recently though, they seem to be reflecting what you said massively.
"I'm curious if Team RWBY will ever face consequence for their actions."
At this point, I can only think in two possibilities:
1 - Either this thread will be completely forgotten or left aside for something else (*Cough* White Fang *Cough*);
2 - Or it is gonna end in a ham-fisted way (*Cough* Ironwood's arc *Cough*).
But my biggest fear of Volume 9 is that RT might try to take things slower, which isn't gonna be easy since Salem already got out of her mansion and started to mess around.
she lost most of her grimm forces and a massive asset to get that relic. So she'll be slowed down.
Something i just noticed
Vale: rwby helps a little: minor structural damage
Haven: rwby barley helps: barley any damages, no seen casualties
Atlas/mantle: rwby tries really hard to help: both cities get destroyed
The more team rwby helps, the worse the situation gets.
Kinda ironic isn´t it? Yet they could have tried to help better.
I feel in a better story, they would've been executed for making two cities being lost. Seriously!! You don't brush that aside, you punish someone for it severely!
Torchwick "Lie, cheat, steal, survive!"
Ruby "You're evil . . .but I may just take your advice someday."
I never really understood why they got so pissy at Ozpin after finding out his tragic origin story and how the woman he loved turned against him, they got their children killed, and that he's cursed to live forever after being brought back over and over when the gods argued each other when Salem wanted him back. He's died over and over, watched people he loved and cared about die, and I think he also feels guilty when he completely takes over or merges with the soul of whoever he's in. I bet there were a lot of people like Oscar who didn't want to lose themselves as Ozpin took over but Ozpin couldn't do anything about it and had to fill the role of that person. I felt really bad for him after seeing that backstory and was horrified when they started verbally and physically assaulted him. None of what happened was his fault it was all Salem's manipulation. He probably should've said Salem can't be killed but Jinn specifically said that Ozpin couldn't kill her. They only mentioned that once and never bring it up again. Ozpin has suffered life time after life time and I'm sure there were people who turned against him when he told them everything from the start so it would make sense why he kept secrets from them. It seems like no matter what this show just has it out for the poor guy.
And I also wanna mention whenever Qrow punched Oscar and Jaune slammed him to the wall they didn't seem to care that they were also hurting Oscar who's been dragged into all of this.
Jaune did try to apologize exactly once but Oscar brushed him off.
I just want Ozpin to try to apologize to Jaune for lying to and manipulating Pyrrha and ultimately having her die for nothing
@@CharlemagneGuy127 Pyrrha basically killed herself.
@@thomasraines1396 she could have lived if they listened to Ozpin but no, they try to be a hero then gets killed.
@@christianvirtudazo3106 exactly but no she dies and the one character who hated being put on pedestal will remain on a pedestal forever (thanks to the giant statue in Argus).
A nicely presented video on Team RWBY and their failures throughout the whole show.
"congratulations Ruby Rose, you did something that Salem cannot do, you destroyed the entire Kingdom of Atlas,... DO YOU FEEL LIKE A HERO YET?."
Ooo😂
The thing about the breach is that the Atlas armed forces, Glynda, Port, Ooblick, CVFY and to a lesser extent JNPR were the ones to actually stop the breach, team RWBY stood in the middle of the square and actually needed saving by everyone else.
oh rrrrriiiigggghtttt
They’re useless!
Yeah, the ending of V2 is one of my least favorite moments in early RWBY (which is saying a lot) considering how team RWBY is suddenly useless out of nowhere despite this being their first mission where they can't handle normal grimm anymore? Are you really going to suddenly nerf the main characters for side characters that don't even show up in later volumes? Really?
Oz was the one punished for that, because he allowed them to go in the first place.
I actually get in arguments with people that think Team R going was a good decision and think Ironwood lied to take over security. Sheesh
@@konstellashon1364i don't understand where the idea Ironwood stabbed Ozpin in the back over the breach came from either.
When they fell off the Bridge, I was like:
“Goodbye horrible people”.
I don’t usually say lol often but lol
When Yang first fell off I was happy that something happened to the main characters and I wanted her to die. but I thought that they were going to pull something that kept her alive because of the bumble bee shippers, but then Blake and Ruby fell off and then I knew immediately that they weren't going to die.
And just like that the world was saved.
@@marcksman7896 It's a shame cause Yang was my favorite in the first 3 seasons
@@flamelover1746 Same. she's just become an unlikable character.
I never really looked into the Cordova part like RT really forget there own universe, that whole episode could've been avoided if Qrow showed his license and told her what was going on. My probably with are "heroes" is that they think their above the law like their "reason" is above everyone and everything. For example ironwood had been through everything more than once who's a general for a reason, if ironwood knew the relic can attract the grimm then he would've definitely evacuated mantel and prepared his defenses just in case it's true but nope are little band of Mary sue's don't think about that fact. And then theres penny she only turned on him because Ruby hit her with the Mary sue verse.
I never minded ironwoods plan he didn't have enough time to evacuate a whole town without causing panic which in hindsight is probably the worst possible scenario, grimm can fly and are always somewhat powerful and could of caused many casualties in the process which will make people scared and horrified which is worst. Another thing is emerald why did she get accepted so quickly she's done so much wrong that one right changed that?
@@eclipsedragonx906 It's because Emerald is a woman so is deserving of forgiveness and trust.
@@4wheal I can tell ozpin got disrespectful for valid points but emerald defects and she's alright in their eyes
@@eclipsedragonx906 because she is a female just like iliya. So she deserve her chance at redemption even though she doesn't have any redeeming quality.
@@RohitSharma-vj1sw The politics sticks out like a bad smell, doesn't it?
I just wanted to go out of my way to thank you for all the hard work you do putting these videos together! I know it can't be easy, what with all the analysis, the editing, vitriolic comments, migraines probably, all while also having to dodge Rooster Teeth's copyright gun. Its incredibly refreshing to find well constructed, meaningful, and FAIR criticism/analysis in a community rife with outrage channels. They've not only been entertaining but they've also been a great reference for what NOT to do with your series and have been helping me elevate my own personal work to a higher standard, so thank you! 😁
Thank you! It really does mean a lot!
19:13 Ironwood is honestly more justified than RWBY when he finds out, because Oscar probably told him about how the Relics attracted Grimm. He probably was kicking himself over letting them carrying the dumb thing *EVERYWHERE,* attracting Grimm to citizens who can't defend themselves.
I've always thought that what Team RWBY needed was their own Archer figure: A fallen foil who has seen where their path of heroism ends and, while still following their ideals to a degree, would rather see them dead than see them continue walking the path. A potentially substantial challenge to the team on a level that I haven't seen them be truly challenged on. However, I doubt the writers would be able to actually pull that kind of dynamic off.
That could of been Torchwick have his backstory be he was a naive kid growing up on the streets who believed in heroes like Ruby. Maybe have him have some friends who thought the same, who tried to help. But then attracted the ire of a crime boss and slowly but surely have each of his friends die because of the crime boss. Who gives Roman the leader a choice ether work for him or die like his friends.
There were Adam and torchwick but both of them are dead now.
You know, I’ve recently felt that Ruby and her entourage in these past few volumes (especially 8) is effectively doing the same thing as Captain Walker, the player character from Spec Ops: The Line.
Forcibly inserting themselves into a delicate situation beyond the original scope of their mission? Check.
Hero complex the size of Texas? Check.
Making the situation far worse than it was? Absolutely!
When shit does go wrong, doubles down, claims they had no choice, and blames the situation on someone else? YOU BET YOUR ASS!
Except instead of calling out this destructive and selfish behavior, RWBY effectively is written as if Walker was the hero. And if you know the plot of Spec Ops… this is not a good thing! Hell so many of the quotes from that game eerily fit what Ruby & co have done, it would almost be comical if it wasn’t so soul crushing.
”Well done, Ruby. You've done what Salem could not - destroyed the Kingdom of Atlas. Do you feel like a hero yet?”
Ruby would be forever stuck at the “This ISN’T my fault” line of thinking.
Slight change to that quote would be pretty much perfect IMHO. "You've done what I could not." no need to go into 'with my armies of grim, magic and total immortality.'
Or point out that the armed forces of Atlas were basically the largest impediment to, and long term threat looming over, Salem. After all, given enough development time, Atlas might have gone full Final Fantasy 8 and imprisoned Salem on the moon/orbital station or something. Salem couldn't crush them under the Grim, but Ruby managed to destroy them utterly while discrediting them in the eyes of the people. (somehow)
That game still somewhat haunts me
@@skelepunner745sans5 I played and beat it recently and yeah it’s extremely fucked up.
Or like Flash in Flashpoint(the comics version). He messed with something he didn't understand and it almost got all of humanity wiped out.
I'm late to this, but the reason is pretty simple: especially since Monty's death, the RWBY cast have been written by bad people without self-reflection. They don't see any of the actions the heroines take as being evil, because "I'd do the same thing!" And the writers' presumption is that they are all not just normal people: they believe themselves, in general, to be paragons. So that same narcissism, casual cruelty, instant victimhood mentality whenever they receive pushback for their bad actions, all of that leaks its way onto the screen without any filter because the writers have no self-awareness. It's always everyone else who is bad, and never they who have erred.
It was never a particularly well thought-out show but it only became more cruel in its one-sided moralizing as time progressed.
Team RWBY are the type of people who rather risk everyone's lives than save the ones they could. I find their desire to save everyone admirable. But it's also really naive. And now because of that, we have:
1. Lost Mantle *and* Atlas
2. Lost both relics
3. Displaced an entire Kingdom's population in a harsh desert wilderness infested with grimm.
4. Created a potential refugee crisis for *another* kingdom
5. And (in my opinion) mishandled what Ironwood was going to do regarding Amity due to a.) lack of proof to back up their claims, b.) straight up outing Glynda and Theodore, and c.) (potentially) screwed over Atlas by stating Atlas needs help while at the same time declaring Ironwood-- you know, Atlas' leader-- untrustworthy
But at least they have a maiden... so... hurray...
They also now showed the world that the most powerful kingdom in the world stood zero chance against Salam so this will inspire fear across the rest if the world.
If anything RWBY had made it harder for the world to come together and probably doomed everyone
@@4wheal Nah, the characters are somehow gonna find a way to use plot armor despite literally everything being against them with zero signs of getting better.
Huh, I'm reminded of what Perfect Cell said to Vegeta in DBZA after the latter allowed Cell to achieve his Perfect form.
Soooo...Captain America in the MCU?
They may or may not have saved less than 1% of the population as Atlas and Mantle has over 100 million people. Yet, only few thousands got through the portals and were being picked off by Grimm. Their plan was 100% worse than Ironwood's. He could've saved 50 million people. While I'm not good at Logistics, I'm pretty sure 50 million is more than a few thousand.
That's why I hate the later volumes. 6-8 is where RWBY became writers' pets and it's so stupid. It reminds me of that one episode of SpongeBob where Squidward tries to go choir practice and SpongeBob decides to stop him at every turn, tortures him and then upstages him. Plus this is one of many SpongeBob episodes that you could even reference to RWBY's action.
The irony in Ozpin's lies being objectively the best choice available to him. It's not even a shortcoming. He made the right decision. But then Ruby tries to do the same thing, but doesn't stick the landing.
Only thing I would say Team RWBY has a right to be mad about is the info that Salem can’t be killed/destroyed being kept from them, because even being on a need to know basis that seems like something you’d want your allies to be in the know about.
Aside from that yeah, they didn’t really need to know the specific details about Ozpin’s past.
@@michaeldorsey9231 That's the worst part you'd want to share, and the show proves that. Every time someone finds out they immediately think, "I'm going to give up fighting." or worse, "I might as well join Salem." These are things that only assist Salem and make it harder to fight against her. Ozpin hiding that info is objectively the most logical and correct decision to make.
@@Coffy-chan is it because if the knowledge itself, or because Ozpin was trying to keep that knowledge under wraps from his closest allies that they respond so badly?
To be frank, if you have vital knowledge of your enemies limitations/strengths, you should make your allies aware of them, especially so they don’t tackle anything more than they could realistically chew.
@@michaeldorsey9231 Firstly, the knowledge itself is demoralizing. Morale management is vital to leading any sort of effort. Low morale is directly counterintuitive to defeating her. So the information itself is what demoralizes them.
However the information being hidden also leads to a response where they feel there has been a betrayal of trust. This is purely an immature and emotional response however. It is illogical, therefore shouldn't be taken seriously as proof that he should reveal the information, as experience has taught him that this always leads to the objectively more negative outcome.
Hiding it always leads to better results, and revealing it always leads to worse results. Ozpin is in a leadership position, so he has to value outcomes more than individual feelings if he has any hopes of suceeding.
And yes, information is generally good to have. But it works on a need to know basis. Information is classified for a reason. Ozpin's forces were objectively more effective when they were unware, and demoralized when they were made aware. In other words, revealing this information weakened his position, while strengthening Salems.
The truth of the matter is Ozpin never betrayed anyone. He merely protected them an infohazard. Revealing this information was damaging to Ozpin, his cause, the subject that recieved it, and all of humanity. Everyone that recieved the information gave up. But the only way to fight back, is to not give up. Therefore revealing the information is objectively the worst option at his disposal.
In fact, revealing it to the world at large would cause mass hysteria, and result in an automatic win on Salem's part. Salem is toying with him by staying hidden.
@@michaeldorsey9231 Unrelated, but nice profile pic lol.
To quote Tony Stark 'If you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it'. In this case, if Team RWBY aren't learning from their mistakes or see how wrong they are by scolding the ones who scold them, they shouldn't have their weapons or hunter licenses.
And letting them get away with everything without consequences? As if that actually works. Talk about a bad message to those watching. No wonder some of the fans are childish enough to try and justify Team RWBY's actions and villainise anyone with a decent mind who opposes Team RWBY.
I'll tell you this, if there was a lesson in school that teaches good and bad writing, there is a good enough chance the writing and morals in RWBY would be labelled as bad writing.
And in that Spider-Man movie, they rightly portrayed how an inexperienced, headstrong noob would make things worse, but not realize his own fault until a grownup told him off.
@@konstellashon1364 Spider-Man Homecoming, Great film, that.
I'd like to personally thank you for this video. Out the many thought pieces and good criticisms out there, this, I believe struck a visceral core root of why the show RWBY in its entirety met its downfall. Protagonist Centered Mortality reflects a writers bias so extreme and ironically, they showed how it's drudges deep into the material in all it's screwed over glory. How you showed when any action no matter how bad is performed by one party, can only be 'Good' when done by the people that they want to be seen as heroes, that's a red flag for any inspiring story maker to learn they're skipping down a bad direction.
In truth, and this is just more of my personal speculation here, I believe this thought echoes out as to why the Rwby fandom at large performs their more toxic behaviors. In some weird way the show's ideals echoed into their behavior in terms of the treatment of others and how they come to clash in a subliminal sense. 'Ice cream for dinner' and it's end result if left unchecked.
It made me happy to see someone put that particular feeling I always had into a cohesive explanation. While I often look at this series as a lesson on what to avoid, you personally satisfied that bone deep angle I always had about it.
This was what I was waiting for for a long time: a detailed explanation as to why our heroes aren't being heroic and why they don't work as main characters. The morality of the show is askew so the conflict doesn't work.
Yep!! Our heroes aren't heroic but they're still portrayed and treated as such, which is the main issue. It would be cool if rwby framed rwby as morally grey, but I don't think the writers have the guts/skill/desire to even consider writing their precious protags as such.
The fact that people would still go out of their way to defend RWBY's actions is preposterous to me. We all know how toxic reddit is, but man, have you seen these people? They defend Team RWBY to the DEATH of them, Christ.
@Esork Gonzalez Ironwood’s plan was straight up stupid
@@RioPheonix35555 And team RWBY's was better?
@@RioPheonix35555 Yeah, but at least his plan EXISTED.
My biggest problem with the protagonist's blatant hypocrisy is that it goes completely unaddressed in universe, in fact, it even gets justified. This points to unconscious hypocrisy on the part of the writers themselves.
This part of the story basically killed the show for me.
I'll always credit the show for being a inspiration for my own work, but the fact that they don't give the heroes consequences and since volume six they've become almost unlikeable as well as being massive hypocrites, ruined the show for me. I might watch volume 9 but only when it finishes airing, but yeah, safe to say that I'm not a RWBY fan anymore, and I'm angry that I kept trying to defend the even to the point of being a complete jerk to others for trying to give any type of criticism
Great video and will always watch your videos on it^^
I havent been a fan since volume 6 ended, I still watch it for maybe a glimmer of hope that something good might come out of it but no luck. Everything that team RWBY has done is, what was said in the video, hypocritical and spoiled. The only reason I'm still going to watch this show is for Jaune, who I want some more backstory for his family, and to see if RT gives consequences to the characters. and lets hope a REAL main character gets killed off.
Question
Are you not a team rwby fan
Or
Are you not a fan of rwby
@@dasherplayz4471 both
@@dasherplayz4471 you can be a fan of something and dislike parts of it, I mean, have you seen the whole star wars fandom?
@@Katie-pz4vx but the guy said it himself that he " wasn't a rwby fan anymore "