MarioFan588 / on a real note pusha put drake in a deadly spot yea your right child support isn’t a diss but the fact that drake can’t be transparent and let us the fans know is kinda shady man drake doesn’t speak on his son 🤭 but most importantly j cole went double plastic with no features
tyruss23 What new information did she give? Every question that Clay asked her she would go around in circles. She wasn’t a ghost she was an hallucination.
zero I disagree I feel like they should’ve really sped up that whole lawsuit with the school while still going through all the testimonies and everything because(to me anyway) that was a very important part of the whole getting justice for Hannah plot, but really hitting hard on the tyler school shooting plot. They did in his little side stories with Cyrus but when it came to the climax for him to be talked down so easily made it seem like they played this event up for no reason.
Depressed and formally suicidal person here. When I was 14, I had to be a lab partners with a guy who sexually assaulted (keep in mind that that's a broad term. I'm not talking rape) me when we were 13. The difference is I reported it immediately and the school knew. I was advised to press charges but ultimately decided to forgive him and not ruin his life for something I didn't understand at the time would permanently scar me. I still don't regret forgiving him. I completely have psychological scars from it still. But anyhow, with all that background, I can't stand this show. It's boring and unrealistic. I can't see anything about the show that actually positively helps anyone going through mental issues or wanting to kill themselves. It's just a big downer binge and reinforces how the process of speaking up can be more painful than the original act itself.
Now the one thing that I think made no sense on the show is the compilation of sexual assault stories at Bryce's trial. While it made for a powerful moment, it makes no sense in the context of the show. Many of the stories had nothing to do with Bryce, and wouldn't be allowed in the court. The prevalence of sexual assault should not change the judge's decision on a specific rape case. In the end, it's just a pandering scene which serves no narrative purpose.
Noah Gregory I don’t think they were literally there. I think it was a metaphor for Jessica being brave enough to speak up and maybe empowering more people to speak up in the future. It was in my opinion one of the only scenes that made speaking up, finding help and justice into a good thing and not something that will be punished and is useless.
Noah Gregory I agree, but I do think it’s the only moment that is coherent with the so called purpose of the show. But that’s probably why it felt so random. If the show showed us more empowering scenes were they show you that you are never alone, instead of showing that everything will always get worse, it would have succeeded more in making a positive statement in my opinion. But it was completely random.
75% of 13RW fanbase never actually had depression in their lives. The other 15% says they have depression but they blame their illness for every poor decision they make that ruins, not only theirs lives, but other people lives as well. Shitty series ever. And it is still glorified by a bunch of 15 years old kids who says they want the world to be better but they also wish people to get killed or die if people don't agree with their opinions. And funmy thing is, Hannah Baker didn't even had Depression. She killed herself for revenge. No wonder the name of the show is a short way to say "13 reasons why I killed myself" and then she gives the tapes to every single one of the 13 reasons she quotes to have ruined her life.
There’s really no point at all for a season 3. It was more than very evident what was going to happen AND what direction it was going to take. The dramatic scene of him getting a broomstick up his butt was just to push the idea that he’d go over the edge. That was a bit much. They a milking this heavy. Literally what else can they do? I’m sure they’ll find a way
Hannah showing up as a reoccurring 'talking ghost' was the thing that annoyed me the _most_ about season 2. She didn't contribute much to the plot (except for gradually pissing Clay off...and me), and it took away the point of 'her being gone' and everyone trying to move forward without her. Her being present as a 'ghost that has no clue why she's there' took away the impact of her suicide for me. Also, it wouldn't have hurt the costume designers to at least make her _look_ like a ghost. Maybe have her show up in the clothes she died in?? Make her look...ghostly? Her showing up looking like she never died, in a well put-together outfit seemed so out of place. Sure, let's just assume they have makeup and Forever 21 in the afterlife.
StrawberryCola Except she *wasn’t* really a ghost. It was Clay’s hallucinations. They made it known in Season 1 that Clay had some sort of mental issues that could be remedied by prescribed medication. Couple that with losing a very important person in your life. He probably was going through psychosis, and you can see that affecting him all throughout this season. Remember how out of it he looked when he showed up to Bryce’s house with a gun?
MegaThrasher95 I know, I mean in the perspective of what they’re trying to portray as storywriters/filmmaking. I said ‘ghost’ because Clay sees his hallucinations as her haunting him. Either way, it’s still very poorly executed from a writing/film perspective.
I think you should watch the “behind the scenes” version of 13 reasons why season, or whatever it’s called. They talk about some stuff that is important about why they decided to make the characters make different decisions, like for example why Bryce didn’t get a longer sentence
I watched season 1 last year for pure entertainment without expecting much of it, and I did find it somewhat enjoyable, although I didn't appreciate the ultra-graphic depictions. Then I learnt they were pushing it as some form of PSA against suicide and I was like...what?! Then I learnt they were making a season 2 and I was like WHAT?!? There was absolutely no narrative reason for a second season, and now that I've watched it I'm so enraged with this show. I don't want to write a paper, but I'll put some of my thoughts here: - I'll start with the only little bit of positive: I did somewhat enjoy Jessica's storyline. I found her reactions quite realistic, even those you pointed out. That "whatever", I read it more like her dying inside but trying to play it cool to avoid confrontation; and the polaroid thing: I felt it was realistic that a rape victim (who hasn't at this point come forward with it) wouldn't feel comfortable about forcing another rape victim to come forward. People tend to underestimate how traumatic going to trial is. Jessica also addresses how she isn't "the right victim" to bring a Bryce-type to trial, and I appreciated the fact that in the end, Bryce got out scot-free because that's unfortunately quite true to life. Now on with the rant: - Clay was never a good protagonist, but in this season I found him unbearable. He's so judgemental, he cares way more about "doing right" by a dead person than actually caring about the living, and he was just... too much for me. Also, for a show supposedly about mental health they did a good job of ignoring completely his very obvious issues (like hallucinating Hannah for most of the season) - The obvious references to the Columbine shooters were frankly awful, period. - It already started last season, but in this one, even more, we have these ultra-graphic depictions of brutal violence that are supposedly there to "tell things how they are" and "start a conversation". Like there wasn't plenty of evidence on the contagion effect of these things (they even freaking acknowledge the issue of suicide contagion, ffs!) They're honestly just doing it for shock value, and they know it, and it's disgusting given their target demographic. - that last scene at school, what the hell. Like, is this show seriously suggesting that an appropriate response in a school shooting situation is running in front of the shooter, alone, and try to talk him down? And dissuade everyone else from calling the police? I can't, I swear... Okay, sorry, I did end up writing a paper. Like you said very well, the issue is not censoring certain topics in media, but this is just a BAD representation of those issues, told in a very prescriptive way that does not facilitate a dialogue or critical thought, at all. And completely ignoring all qualified advice and scientific evidence on how to best deal with these sensitive topics. But I guess the show runners just know better than anyone else...
I'm so grateful it came out after I started to get better cause if I saw this show when I was younger, I don't even know. I've had depression, OCD, anxiety my whole life, and now I'm able to recognize the poor writing and melodrama, but then I don't think I'd be able to
Younger ppl tend to romanticize things already. Suicide is one of them. This show romanticized suicide, and it was obvious she was blaming others for her own permanent decision. Ppl may disagree with me here, but it was apparent to me as well that the longer the show aired, the more n more PC crap was shoved down my throat. If the show is about suicide, work on that message. Don't show me politics idc about. Funny how they made damn sure you saw the type of weapon it was haha. As if he would of been able to run in the school and start mowing everyone down with a .22 caliber, likely SEMI-auto AR-15. Ppl wanna act like somehow AR's just blast out a few hundred rounds a minute. Sorry for the ending gun rant, it's just apparent that they injected that gun issue and had a slow close up of the weapon to make you know it's an AR15, to further the narrative that they should ban assault rifles. And to also show another instance of a white kid shooting up a school, as if school shootings have been running rampant, when they have actually declined in number. The only thing that changed is the media blasting it thru your face nonstop.
It does glorify it, and people who have gone through that hate the series or like it bc it glorifies it. Serious issues are not your plot device, and you cant use them to give your series attention, those excuses the creators say are so dumb and even the professionals they talked to told them to not do it that way. If they want a teen drama, dont use serious issues to bring attention, surprise you have to treat them in a serious way.
All I'm saying is this show is the epitome of "Werther effect". There's a reason suicides don't get through the media is because it inspires copycat suicides, known as the Werther effect. And the show just keeps showing all those people missing Hannah and idolizing her, suddenly everyone loves her. If that doesn't show suicide as a good option then i don't know...
13RW is a complex and polarizing show about a sensative topic. U'll have many reasons to hate or love it depending on ur perspective. Sure on the superficial surface there's alot to hate, but if you really think about it, there's more to it. S2 fixes and addresses many of the issues present in S1 like the counselor scene, clay n skye as well as the ending. No despite the foreshadowing, i didn't feel one bit that that school shooting was the main issue. Of course, from my perspective. S2 addresses alot of real world problems that doesn't get mainstream media attention often like mental health issues, male sexual assaults and how no one is truly flawless (Hannah). It also gives possible solutions unlike S1. S2 was better and more appropriate overall in the end.
Fun fact: In the show Preacher, Hell is kind of like a prison and theres a guy that goes there for raping 3 girls, and its played by the same actor that did Bryce in 13RW (Justin Prentice), hell, the character even has the same personality and all, lol
I honestly like the show. Not for the message, but because it is entertaining. I do agree that if you are struggling with any of the issues mentioned in the show, it can make you feel worse. This show is only meant for entertainment.
I don't agree with your half baked victim comment... I believe that whole, "you wanna chill?" scene one hundred percent. That kinda trauma, I couldn't even imagine, so if she would've stood up to him and been the hero; that would've been a lot harder to believe for me than her trying to get over what happened and trying to act normal with him again. However! She's the only character I can get behind. Hannah's character is just so extra. Even in season 2! 13 Reasons Why? More like 6 Reasons, maybe. I'm sticking to your reviews cuz I just can't sit through 13 more episodes of this 😂 👌🏽
i absolutely loved the first season of the show. Kinda liked the second but not as much. I see a lot of people hate this show because they believe that the depictions of suicide and rape are used for just shock value but i disagree completely. I feel like it's great to show violence in it's purest form because it captures the attention of people who would have dismissed issues like these and would have turned their heads away from this kind of thing. Also, a lot of people are sheltered and like to believe that the events that happen in this tv show are over exaggerated/over-dramatic and don't happen in real life; therefore, raw depictions of these actions are somewhat necessary to raise awareness about how events like these actually happen and can help prevent more events like these from happening in the future. It's good that you dont need to see it graphically to realize that things like this happen and that your imagination can do the work for you, however others arent like that and if the show is going to raise awareness it needs to catch the attention of people who may be oblivious. One if the things that people like to turn their heads away from is sexual harassment. The response to the generalization about how most women are sexually harassed is evidence of how sheltered people are and how insensitive they are when it comes to the topic. Catcalling is sexual harassment and im sure plenty women don't appreciate that kind of disrespect. Although i enjoyed the second season, even i found the presence of hannah's ghost character to be funny at first, which i feel is intentional but later on i felt like hannah is simply how clay deals with finding this new information about her. Since clay wasn't in the most intimate relationship with hannah i always thought of his love for her to be an unrequited idealized infatuation. he was in love with the thought of hannah. hannah's presence was also a representation of clay's guilt. if i know someone that passed away by suicide was also raped and the rapist was roaming free and i knew who they were, i would feel guilty as well. I always hoped the conversations were in clays head as well but if it was in public i can see why that aspect didn't sit well with you. i feel like It isn't explained because this was a point of the show where they managed to be subtle and leave something to the imagination rather than being blunt. when it comes to tyler, I would appreciate if the show didn't hold back more and actually went forward with showing a school shooting instead of cutting it out. In the last season they did a good job of building up to why Hannah Baker did what she did and it payed off to gut wrenching scene even though we all knew it was coming later on. However, not all people resort to suicide. Sure it would make some sense for Tyler to commit suicide as well however watching the show i felt like Tyler was the type of person who wanted to push through the issues at school. To me Hannah already seemed relatively hopeless and unfortunately she felt like suicide was the best option. Hannah never made too much of an effort to fight back against the people who tormented her. Tyler actually took action and took matters into his own hands during the show's second season which is why to me it made sense that he wouldn't fall down without a fight of some kind. Tyler had all the motivation in the world and it would have completely made sense to move forward with the school shooting. I noticed in the video that you said there are so many ways someone can become suicidal, a school shooter, or how complex bi-polar disorder is and I just felt that was a bit nit picky. The show can't go over every single example of how one gets to a dark place in their life. Can you imagine how ambitious that would be and long that would take (multiple seasons probably). I wouldn't say it's binary thinking. and i think you're mistaken when saying the the writers are using this show as an answer to mental illness or something. i would say the show is trying to tell it's own unique individual story. I dont think the show's intention was to ever tell people to commit suicide for revenge or shoot up a school. I think it was trying to explain 1 particular and common scenario of why these kinds of things can happen. One criticism that I also disagree with is when people say this show doesn't know how teenagers talk. Just because you personally haven't met teenagers who don't talk like they do in the show doesn't mean they aren't out there. There isn't a one size fits all for how teens talk. Yes the line "all my scars are inside" is a bit cringey; however, there are definitely some cringey teens out there who would say that kid of thing. I absolutely disagree with the statement where you said that the show was romanticizing drug abuse by showing kids taking molly?! molly isn't a hard drug at all. It's another form of ecstacy and is barely used recreationally. most teens do it once and then they're done with it. plenty of teenagers have done it along smoking weed or taking acid. i wouldn't say the character's are two dimensional without the tragic events in the story. without those events they're just regular high school teenagers who deal with the teenage angst we all deal with when we were at that age. that doesn't make them 2 dimensional that just makes them ordinary humans. I dont have a problem with a show having a somber tone. u said that the show seemed hopeless and over bearing and to me life can be very hopeless with almost no brightside. it's unfortunate but it is what it is. that's not a flaw to me that's one of the reasons why i resonated with the show so much. I can agree that at most half of the 13th episode is filler. to me a lot still happens. they show the horrible reality of bryce practically getting away with rape. clay finally gets closure and his family adopt justin who hooks up with jessica at the dance. we find out chloe's pregnant which leaves some people wondering how she's going to get out of the situation with bryce. tyler tries to turn his life around but feels like he cant once he's sodomized in the bathroom. it wasn't that much of mess. if you couldnt understand why clay would want to save tyler i feel like maybe you weren't paying attention to the show's 2 seasons. In both seasons clay regrets that he wasn't able to stop hannah from doing what she was did. however he sees a chance to help tyler in the way he couldn't help hannah. clay may not know about what happened in the bathroom but he knows tyler has been suffering badly at the school and letting tyler throw his life away would be unfair. it is definitely wrong to advise someone to approach a school shooter in any way but tyler isn't any school shooter. if he was then he wouldn't of texted his ex. that text was a last cry for help and if it wasn't answered tyler would have felt absolutely alone and went through with it. sure it is stupid to run up to a school shooter but the show has shown us that clay would regret not trying to help someone like tyler; therefore, if clay has to risk death stop another victim of bullying at the school so be it. i'm sure that would be the mentality that he has. the rest of the criticisms that were here to me are ultimately subjective. whether or not you find the show to be interesting or entertaining is matter of your personal preference i guess. I can admit hat show definitely has flaws but a lot of them part of what i actually appreciate about. i just decided to leave this comment since to me the hate this show gets is so not deserved. at least thats how i feel.
I didn't watch the whole video cause I haven't seen season 2 yet. I just wanna say that I loved the show cause I've been through some shit by myself and something I've actually seen people doing. So actually I relate to 13 reasons why. But call me confused but I really loved your video too and I watched reviews for this show just to get another perspective and I think you did that really well. Thanks for the video. and if you came here before watching the show and you wanted to see the review first then I wanna say that you should watch this show only if you get emotionally connected to the character cause otherwise, you might end up getting bored.
I think that she comes across like a vindictive selfish bitch which makes me think that she probably deserved most of the bad things that happened to her.
I think more people would appreciate the show if the producers said it’s for the people who aren’t dealing with depression and bullying. So that they can see signs and educate them on how things that seem little to you on the outside can have a greater effect on others. The show is also not a cookie cutter for all cases of depression and suicide. Different things work differently for different people. It’s intellectually dishonest to say that this is gonna help all people or no people. You have to way the cost but if you never try then everybody is lost. Also I hate that people poke holes in Hannah’s reasons, it is victim blaming. Nobody is a perfect victim and maybe things were over exaggerated based on your view point. But if it meant a lot to her than it’s jus as valid. We gotta do better at operating outside of our own reality.
Wow! Those people in the comments... Hypocrites. PS: I did not watch the show, but I read the book and I hated it. I really disliked Hannah and found her vindictive and eager to blame everyone for every single thing that went wrong in her life. Speak your mind AtZ!
Its not the writers themselves saying its everyone else. Its her. The character. She is blaming everyone one else when she could of done plenty of things to help herself.
This show has so many chances to be good and ignores all of them. in the first season it should be focused on clay and how hannah is fucking up his life . how he is driven by morbid curiosity which he cannot escape. the focus should not be on hannah and they should not have centered so much on how hannahs plan is going perfectly and how everything she wanted is good and how she was just a poor victim. they should have played up how much damage hannah is doing and how she somewhat caused her own problems. making a show about how the suicide is affecting the people she knows would be a far better than the martyrdom of her death where everyone who speaks badly of her is seen as a bad guy. yes some of her actions can be explained by her depression and her traumatic experiences and some other people may act in a similar way however that does not mean you should play that as being a good action or the only choices she had
I like the show and I respect your opinion. I like the storyline and was hooked. But if you have an opinion on this show then I'll respect it and I agree with some of it. (Also I enjoyed the video and you earned a subscriber)
as someone who has struggled with suicidal thoughts etc. i have mixed feelings on this show. though i definitely thought about hurting myself a lot more after watching the show, it also low key helped me just because it put it into perspective how much it would affect my family if i were to do something like that, because of the way it portrayed her parents after her death. i even talked to another friend who has a similar issue as me and he said the same thing. for lack of a better term, it triggers me a bit, but also helps me. the show's still low key shit tho
You don't have to be silent, but realistic and serious. They portray and play with suicide as if it's just a shock factor. I won't write an essay here on why 13RW is hot trash, but one thing that I will say is that 13RW doesn't treat death seriously. Hannah kills herself, but hey, she recorded some tapes with her thoughts and memories, she appears to people as a ghost/hallucination, so really, Hannah's death ain't so serious. It's almost like she isn't even gone, like death doesn't mean that you... die.
my thoughts exactly and also the ghost telling Clay what actually happened so he's got all figured it out but then it's like... did you really do this and hannah's playing the victim ...
But isn’t that true? You’re not gone until you’re forgotten. Regardless of their relationship, her death had an impact on all of them in one way or another, just like in real life. What this show did was glorify suicide as a way to get people to care.
Just to focus on a single aspect, the person who committed suicide gets to give these tapes to people... when I was in middle school, I used to fantasize about having a suicide note read over the loud speaker, telling certain people how they hurt me, and also telling others how much they meant to me. Of course, that's a pretty ridiculous fantasy, that's not something that would happen in million years. Buuuut, maybe, sending tapes out? I'm glad I never thought of that. I'm glad there wasn't a show giving me suggestions. I'm glad there wasn't an outside source reinforcing that internal narrative, validating it. Cause I don't hate life as much as I did then, I'm not hopeless everyday. I don't know if I would be here to know that if I had been getting encouragement, and whatever the proclaimed purpose of the show, that's how I would have interpreted it when my brain was working against me.
Same. I thought about leaving a suicide note, to show them how much they hurt me, and if i would have seen the show back then, i dunno if would be still alive...
I was also thinking about how the show would have affected me, had it existed during my first bad years when I was in high school, and that thought scares me. The scene where she killed herself would have thrown me over the edge, it looked so easy. Though every time I'm thinking about that scene I get mad, because she obviously didn't really want to die. She did it when her parents were home, she didn't lock the door, and she let the water run over. But hey.
... so in a single day, there are already comments from at least two more of us who aren't sure we'd be here with this kind of show out there. Three people, just in this one video's comment section. Three people who could be dead. How many more are out there? How many people could this be hurting? I wonder if anyone making this really realizes the damage they could do...? It sounds like at least one expert tried to raise an alarm, so whoever is producing this can't be completely ignorant- it looks like a deliberate choice to ignore the risks. That seems inexcusable... Also, even now, it's nice to know I wasn't alone, so thanks. Fighting against your own mind is a tough battle, and I'm glad you guys are still here, after whatever you've gone through, to show that it's worth it to keep fighting.
my idiot ass mates thought it was gonna be a "suicide attempt" like what, they already did that with Alex but na its a suicide attempt. and then they got mad kuss i "spoiled" the school shooting...WHAT DA FACK?
The biggest issue with 13 Reasons is that it's _not_ about suicide. It's about bullying, from an immature and self-centered perspective. Her suicide is a narrative tool used punish everyone else. That's why it doesn't deal with anti-depressants, therapy, or the most basic rule that survivors should _not_ blame themselves or others, but does blame the first rape victim for how her rape affected the main character, and treats her family's money problems as more important and severe than those of the character living in poverty with abusive and drug abusing parents. Even though Hannah is a) in the most privileged position of her group and b) initially focused on graduating and leaving this small town, the narrative jumps through illogical hoops to create a situation where the middle class girl with the stable family life is the primary victim with no emotional obligations to anyone else. It's even twisted to the point that when she makes out with another girl, that's only about that girl's sexuality and not her own. Even the tapes don't express vulnerability, insecurity, and lack of self-worth. They express vindictiveness and blame through snide remarks and "drop the mike" lines. Essentially, it's a long, drawn out version of, "You're being mean to me! How would you like it if I just died? You'd feel bad then!" Which is _not_ going to prevent suicides. It's not even going to prevent people being mean, because everyone who identifies with it sees themselves as Hannah while missing all the really terrible things she does to others. The only act in the story actually linked to inciting suicide is blaming teens for a suicide. Don't get me wrong, the rapist should face legal repercussions, as should the stalker. But in the real world, young people in Clay's position often commit suicide themselves. Hannah gets _everything_ she wanted from her suicide. She gets to tell everyone off without having to hear about one thing she's done wrong, or how a healthy person would have found better solutions. Or how she sees causality where it doesn't exist (even when police are involved, a downed stop sign often won't be replaced for ages). She gets to blame everyone else while taking no responsibility for her actions, and never has to justify her highly skewed perspective. Even her parents stop grieving and start blaming and attacking the people she blamed in the ways she wanted but didn't bother to do while she was alive. And they even depict her essentially getting to see her victory. The narrative amplifies sympathetic viewers' self-pity and self-righteousness while depicting suicide as a very romantic, productive, and satisfying act which canonizes the suicide and destroys their enemies.
It went over your head Such a poor understanding of the show Hannah didn't do terrible things to others wtf are you even saying The show is against suicide so IDK why you think like that
@@ibrahimzulfiquar668 I notice you have zero analysis or points to show it went over my head, or that you're right and she did nothing wrong by blaming others for her own, solitary actions and choices. Just to repeat, for everyone out there, first rule of suicide survivor's club is it's absolutely not your fault. Healthy people, especially ones in Hannah's extremely privileged position, do not choose suicide as a solution to problems they themselves explicitly admit they plan to leave behind in a year or less. That is mental illness, and terribly, tragically, heartbreakingly sad, but the reason is a chemical imbalance, and _not_ that you didn't read their mind and figure out a way to save them from themselves. And any real media against suicide wouldn't lie and depict the "reasons why" as external when they aren't. If this had been about her inability to afford therapy and anti-depressents, or the difficulties of finding one that works, or coping with the various side-effects, or even how peers and teachers reacted to her mental health struggles, it would have been more honest about external factors.
I found your arguments really compelling and am not trying to argue with any of the main ones but 2 minor things came to mind I just wanted to point out...I wouldn't say that Hannah seems to be the most privileged or well off person in her friend group, have you seen Clay's house? Not to mention their "guest house" or whatever they call it that Clay & Justin move into in later seasons is bigger than my apt! Really most of those kids seem to be extremely privileged and well off with the exception of Justin. Also, I wouldn't say Hannah's parents "stopped grieving" either, I mean you never stop grieving when losing a loved one, particularly a child I would imagine, & if anything I think it actually *was* their grieving that led them to start looking for "someone to blame", particularly the mother. I mean if God forbid my daughter were to do that, I can't imagine my first instinct would be to sue her school but everyone deals with grief in different ways and I think that was just part of her process. But yeah, that's all, otherwise I was pretty in agreement with most of your arguments.
@@ibrahimzulfiquar668 lol she wasnt perfect. She was also mean, she didn't stand up for herself which essentially is an oxymoron since she isn't shown as a weak and quiet girl, she's this witty teenage girl who knows how to deal with shit. She was just an attention seeker honestly. The character I mean. If someone is dying to take revenge and not end the pain, then honestly fuck that person.
The thing about the book was that it made Hannah almost unlikable. She was only made sympathetic through the eyes of the boy who liked her. The show messed this up so badly by showing the world through her lens and not his. She isn’t necessarily supposed to be sympathetic, but rather tragic. She was supposed to represent a large group of suicidal teens, not be turned into a soap opera.
Chris G that's just a dumbass comment you don't know people's Mental Health people get so offended over everything you got offended over a comment you don't think someone with mental health issues could be influenced by show based around suicide I'm sorry how you talk to people
Chris G You do know some ppl can be very fragile and experts warn that showing a graphic deception of suicide and the message of using suicide as a means of revenge can be tempting. In fact 2 separate girls (Priscilla and Bella) did kill themselves after apparently watching the show, and in Austria apparently 2 friends were forced to stop their suicide pact and copy cat suicides are a thing.
Preach!! Freaking Amen! Snaps all around. I struggle with Depression, anxiety, and PTSD from emotional and verbal abuse (I call it a triple threat). As someone that was a targeted demographic 13 Reasons why failed on so many reasons for me. This show does not encourage healing and triumph over mental illness. This show can cause serious damage through triggering individuals which can result in attempts, relasps, and actual death. Hannah Baker chose to take her life; she chose that. She can not put that on anyone else. She potrayed revenge suicide which is incredibly toxic and should NEVER be incouraged. I agree with the message that words can hurt but this show took that to an unhealthy extreme. From personal experience you cannot force someone to try to get better. The individual have to make a daily choice to get better. Hannah didn't choose that. I myself even though I can blame my depression, anxiety, and PTSD on my abuser but if that is all I do then I will never ever get better. I choose to live. I choose to try to get better. I choose to try to move on and continue with my life. That is the only way individuals will get better and 13 Reasons why does not show that. Entertainment can portray a message of you can choose to get better. Examples of these are Dear Even Hansen, Silver Linings Playbook, and To the Bone. I will not watching the second season for the fact that I do not want to encourage the film industry to continue to put out content that sends this kind of dangerous message
My issue with this show was, is and still is how they romanticize suicide and the other thing about it is Hannah herself, if you aren't engaged with the story you start to notice how mean spirited she is, the same goes for all the characters.
I feel that it does. It makes you believe that the person you have a crush on will suddenly realize that they loved you all along and be heartbroken over your death.
Anne Rittwage that's exactly why it appeals to many teenagers and it's very dangerous. That psychologist told Netflix not to go with this project for a reason but I guess money is more important. It's funny how a show that basically explains that a person's suicide is everyone else's fault would portray suicide in a way that actually made some teens kill themselves yet they don't feel like they have any kind of responsibility for those deaths and should stop right now. Fake wokeness at its best.
This season was SO god damn bad. Poorly acted, and disgustingly pandering to young kids. As a person who is a personal survivor of sexual assault, I can understand the whole being afraid to name your attacker thing, but Jesus H Christ, Jessica with the "it's my story to tell" shit is utter trash. The only episode that really resounded with me was the beginning of the final season where all the women stood up and told their stories about their encounters with sexual assault. It happens so often, and I'm happy that 13 reasons why covered it at least half assed correct. Really loved the book as depressed teenager. Am hugely dissapointed in the series
The fans claim that the show is "helping" people with mental illness and assault survivors by "spreading awareness" but come on...if that was the point they would've a) done only one season and b) not be so unapologetically graphic. Many people with ptsd from their own assaults have said the rape scenes in both seasons have made them physically ill. How is that helping? The writers are just doing this for shock value at this point. It's exploitation plain and simple. I'm not saying censor the show, but can it stop claiming to be so "woke" and to be doing this for people who are struggling? Because it's not for a lot of people. The show can be as shocking as it wants, but at least be genuine about it. The writers and the fans need to quit being so preachy when they know damn well it's for entertainment and nothing else.
The fact that the show's fans, despite claiming it's trying to stop suicide tell people to kill themselves or threaten to murder them for not liking it shows that they only watch it to try to feel deep and intelligent. A show being about suicide, rape and bullying doesn't make it a good show or make it above criticism.
After stomaching all episodes of season 1, I can safely say, as someone who is legitimately depressed and has repeatedly been suicidal, it not only incorrectly portrays suicide and depression, but presents dangerous ideas which can seriously harm those who are at risk of suicide, such as implying that Hannah had no way of getting help and that turning to an adult who can help you does absolutely nothing, making death seem meaningless, and portraying suicide as a good or effective method of revenge. No clue why this got a season 2, it breaks several of the guidelines put in place by CASP (the Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention), guidelines specifically meant to make sure that when a show or movie portrays suicide, they don't encourage or glorify it. Overall, they failed to do what they set out to (besides make money, they succeeded at that,) and have likely done far more harm than good.
Hated the first season. I couldn't validate this girl making multiple bad decisions & blaming everyone else for the consequences of that. It just angered me. I will probably watch the second season just to confirm my original thoughts. ❤❤❤ATZ
Carys Is Awesome I do hate how everyone was treating Hannah as innocent when she was clearly wasn't. And as mentioned in the video, they still did in season 2. It pissed me off that Hannah had the nerve to be mad at Clay.
Alexis Roth I think the second season did a pretty good job at snatching her halo. She wasn't made out to be an angel, but was still able to be seen as a sympathetic figure
Considering how the lawsuit against the school didn't go through and Hannah's mother lost, it's kinda ridiculous how anyone could possibly say the show is purposely trying to make Hannah the innocent one.
Carys Is Awesome I agree, it was truly aggravating and an awful message from the series, i know... Don't blame the victim, but saying you don't have to have common sense since if you end up being a victim is everyone else's fault... If you see a guy rape your friend, well maybe don't go to a party after a few days, alone, in his home and go swimming in your underwear? If 4 guys have rapist rumors around them, may be don't go to an abandoned shack with them? Hannah "we can't control who we fall for", i was like sure you can!!! You're declaring girls are governed by their instincts and emotions like animals with that, isn't that exactly what you're asking guys not to do?.
Art account IT Ya know, just this morning I thought about that. I wondered who's decision it was at the writing table to leave her character's moral compass on the fence. I feel like in theory it makes sense because that's how people work but in the story it translated to her being hypocritical, which was aggravating.
I like your fearlessness in criticizing this show. I mean the show wasn't perfect. It has its flaws like many other shows out there. I definitely wouldn't recommend it to anyone suicidal, it definitely makes the victim look perfect, justifies her suicide and blames everyone else for her actions. It opens up the conversation but is meant to entertain not to solve the problem.
Gracie Grace - Season 2 definitely did not make Hanna look like a victim. Even in season 1, she witnessed a murder and did nothing about it. Season 2 took any empathy away from our feelings about Hanna because we find out she was just as bad as the rest of them. Not to say people can’t change and the actions of the others are justified. It’s just Hanna wasn’t a good person to start with which took a lot away from her as a character.
“It opens up the conversation but is meant to entertain” That’s the problem. The topic of suicide shouldn’t be treated as entertainment, it shouldn’t be glorified or romanticized. It’s disgusting in it’s approach, offensive to those dealing with depression and suicide, people who actually had relatives that fell victim to it. Glad I didn’t watch it.
I never argue with people I know who like this show. Tried it. The show is Not for me. But I've grown to hate the show and I never really could put the reason into words. Your last point is exactly why.
"They made it for awarness" Bullshit They trigger the People that live with these Problems Its not raising awarness it makes These People with these People feel even worse because the Show is using the rape for example as a shock to shock the audience. I know People with these Problems and they cried and felt horrible watching it Not because of the Show but of the Things the Show did to them and reminded them off It makes them feel horrible Dont know how to Explain it but it does everything exept raising awarness in a helpfull way
The scene with Tyler in the bathroom was probably the most painful and unnecessary scene I've ever watched. Instead of just implying what happened, they literally showed EVERYTHING. They even left the sound in, and you could hear the screams and cries of terror of Tyler. All the while Monty has a sick and heartless look on his face. I've watched plenty of horror and graphic shows in my life, (including Hannah's suicide scene) but I have NEVER in my life had to pause the scene, walk around my house for 20 minutes and desperately try to convince myself that it wasn't real. Everytime I think about it, I have to clench myself for a bit, just to not imagine the terrible pain he went through.
Just because something has a good message doesn't make it good. That's a pretty shallow way of judging material. The thing about the creators of this show and I problem I'm seeing in most of the world's media today is that while a lot of people have good intentions they have pretty bad ideas at how to implement them.
I don't think they had good intentions due to the fact that they absolutely disregarded everything the psychologists told them about how to handle such a topic. They wanted publicity, and money.
I liked season 1 but season 2 is unnecessary and then leading it onto a 3rd season towards the end is a complete joke and trying to turn it into some kind of show kind of shows how they want to milk the success.
This show is pure evil. It's damaging so many of the very people it promised to help. Someone needs to get a mop and give this show the Tyler treatment.
man, i liked the first season, i thought suicide is a real issue, we need to pay more attention to it, i have friends that are dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts but this second season is so bad, man, sooo bad. The way they tried to approach these problems is so wrong. And confusing, i thought it was so stupid that firstly they tell you hannah is so perfect and then they come out like "hey, hannah is a bitch but also a victim" like... what? and I agree with the jessica's problem saying it's not her story to tell... man, rape is a fucking crime and also CLAY... how come no one even noticed he's alone and he's talking to no one? and the "ghost" of hannah telling him what happened or that he can think whatever he wants...? it so fucked up. And when Tayler got raped at school.... and then he's at home just like nothing happened... no one noticed THAT?
If you think about we're all both victims and perpetrators in many different contexts, the old "you're the hero of your own story, but the villain of someone's else" and that's what the second season is about and everyone deals with that in so many different ways... the same about being raped while drunk or if you're a boy. Of course most of the decisions for the characters and plot will consider what they're doing to keep the show going on and ratings always high, so we shouldn't expect some "Requiem for a Dream -level" of complexity and darkness, but I believe it's going somewhere.
This show sucks, period. It has nothing to do with the problems they are talking about. THE SHOW IS TRASHHHHHHH. I DON'T CARE HOW ANY OF YOU FEEL. STOP COMBINING YOUR PERSONAL SHIT WITH THE ACTUAL ART OF IT. IT ISN'T GOOD, IT ISN'T WRITTEN WELL, IT ISN'T EDUCATIONAL, IT DOESN'T TEACH YOU ANYTHING NEW ABOUT THESE ISSUES, MENTAL AND OTHERWISE, IT'S NOT EVEN A VIVID PORTRAYAL, I WROTE SOMETHING LIKE THIS FOR MY WRITER HOUSE WHEN I WAS 16, THIS IS A JOKE, THE WRITERS ARE A JOKE, AND NO ONES LAUGHING. THIS SHOW IS WRITTEN PURELY TO MOVE EMOTION, WITHOUT ANY REAL PURPOSE, WITHOUT ANY REAL MESSAGE, AND LIKE MOST SHEEP YOU HAVE ALL FALLEN FOR IT. BUT WHAT THE FUCK DO I KNOW, I JUST LIKE HAVE BEEN THROUGH MOST OF THESE MENTAL AND PHYSICAL BATTLES WITH MYSELF AND FOR FRIENDS. SO WHEN I SEE A BULLSHIT PORTRAYAL OF SUICIDE AND RAPE I'M GOING TO CALL IT, AND THIS IS EXACTLY THAT. A COLLEGE THESIS PAPER DOES A BETTER JOB
Yea my girl and I binged and was like is it me or is Hannah kind of a bitch and then ending in cliffhanger saving the school shooter tf and now you are telling kids to confront a school shooter lol
Ok, I actually understand Jessica when she said it's not their story to tell. I believe you even said in your first video and Hannah revealing Jessica's rape to her over the tape was manipulative. See, Jessica was saying that the girls needed to tell the story themselves because it would be a moment of power for them. Otherwise, if they hear it from someone else, they're crushed.
Omg you should watch Riverdale. The first season was pretty good and the characters were actually likeable and it was good dumb fun. Then in season 2 it became a total mess like the characters and the plots and everything, but it was still fun to watch because you can criticize and make fun of the writing (even the own Riverdale fans were ridiculing the show) because its a fictional thing. BUT in 13 reasons why you cant say shit to any die hard fan because ITS A SHOW ABOUT SUICIDE, ARE YOU BLAMING THE VICTIM, YOU SICK FUCK, and all that shit that people tell you, LIKE ITS FICTIONAL PEOPLE IT IS!!
I haven’t watched the show, but I read the book in high school. It was because a dear friend of mine was going through depression and my friends and I wanted to monitor what she was reading, and let me tell you, I was never as relieved as when she told me that she would never do what Hannah did because it was bullshit. That’s why I can’t support the show: mentally ill people are drawn toward mental illness stories, and that’s a good thing but only if the stories can be helpful to their struggles, not if they glorify the illness and legitimize toxic/harmful behavior
my overall problem are the tapes(dude really thats pycho) and the fact that literal doctors told them not to portray suicide the way they were going to and did it anyways. im sorry but it should not take a god damn show/book to realize you need to treat people like a human being. i get that it starts a "conversation" but for someone thats dealing with their mental health, i feel like its a slap in the face. idk lol let me shut up now. and since you bring up riverdale...i genuinely love the show but the "dark betty" stuff is fuckin weird
I honestly liked season 1. Thought it was great and had mature story telling. Yes it was graphic, but it never felt like exploitation to me anyway. Season 2 had the exact opposite effect. I get it though, they want to start a conversation, but in season 2 it felt like they just wanted to shock us more than have a compelling story.
"I ain't MatPat, my theories do come true."
**mic drop**
OHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Shots fired ...he speaks pure fact
BARS
just yadi This can be a pun. Think about it
Someone alert the theorist!!MatPat down MatPat Down!!!!😂
This is gonna be the youtube version of the Drake & Pusha-T beef
Netflix is milking this so much
peoples "fans" are like "omg is there going to be a season 3??" but like we all know there is probably going to be...
Marina Panda sure enough you were right. It's been renewed for a 3rd season.
LordIron tapes then polaroids what next ???? MF carbon copies
Eccentric Vlogs probably. That or hand written letters probably
Probably gonna end with some hot button issue
Don’t let this distract you form the fact that drake has a son and he been paying child support huge L for drake pusha won the beef
MarioFan588 / pusha won he’s a winner 🤨 do u need 13 reasons why?
MarioFan588 / on a real note pusha put drake in a deadly spot yea your right child support isn’t a diss but the fact that drake can’t be transparent and let us the fans know is kinda shady man drake doesn’t speak on his son 🤭 but most importantly j cole went double plastic with no features
Apparently, Jay-Z is dodging his son too
YESPLEASE PRESENTS life’s crazy smh one of us could be some rapper son
Son Momo it seems like he was only hiding it until his Adidas press release.. he was going to use his son for publicity with his new clothes lol.
As a person who was bullied and considered suicide, I am glad this show did not come out back in the day
Season 2 should of started with of shooting and that should of been the focus. Hannah arc was over. Maybe bring up brace trial but thats about it
tyruss23 What new information did she give? Every question that Clay asked her she would go around in circles. She wasn’t a ghost she was an hallucination.
But then how would they stretch the content out long enough to have more seasons? (edit: sarcasm)
ikr
zero That’s the ending.
zero I disagree I feel like they should’ve really sped up that whole lawsuit with the school while still going through all the testimonies and everything because(to me anyway) that was a very important part of the whole getting justice for Hannah plot, but really hitting hard on the tyler school shooting plot. They did in his little side stories with Cyrus but when it came to the climax for him to be talked down so easily made it seem like they played this event up for no reason.
Depressed and formally suicidal person here. When I was 14, I had to be a lab partners with a guy who sexually assaulted (keep in mind that that's a broad term. I'm not talking rape) me when we were 13. The difference is I reported it immediately and the school knew. I was advised to press charges but ultimately decided to forgive him and not ruin his life for something I didn't understand at the time would permanently scar me. I still don't regret forgiving him. I completely have psychological scars from it still. But anyhow, with all that background, I can't stand this show. It's boring and unrealistic. I can't see anything about the show that actually positively helps anyone going through mental issues or wanting to kill themselves. It's just a big downer binge and reinforces how the process of speaking up can be more painful than the original act itself.
Season 2 should've started with the shooting. Would've been 100 times better
But then it couldn't have taken place on the anniversary of Columbine
Eve Green oh shit, didn’t notice that til you said it. Damn. Wicked.
If you want to see the premise of 13 Reasons Why done much better, I'd recommend checking out the movie/manga A Silent Voice
This is a great manga and a beautiful movie, not to spoil anyone but the way they set up the phrase "see you later" is amazing.
it made me cry. Ishida made me cry
I agree completely. Gets the positive message across without any controversy.
Thank you for remembering this masterpiece 👌
Yes.
LISTEN TO A D I D O N
Now the one thing that I think made no sense on the show is the compilation of sexual assault stories at Bryce's trial. While it made for a powerful moment, it makes no sense in the context of the show. Many of the stories had nothing to do with Bryce, and wouldn't be allowed in the court. The prevalence of sexual assault should not change the judge's decision on a specific rape case. In the end, it's just a pandering scene which serves no narrative purpose.
Noah Gregory I don’t think they were literally there. I think it was a metaphor for Jessica being brave enough to speak up and maybe empowering more people to speak up in the future. It was in my opinion one of the only scenes that made speaking up, finding help and justice into a good thing and not something that will be punished and is useless.
Klaartje ok. Even if it was a metaphor, it completely takes you out the story. It served no narrative purpose.
Noah Gregory I agree, but I do think it’s the only moment that is coherent with the so called purpose of the show. But that’s probably why it felt so random. If the show showed us more empowering scenes were they show you that you are never alone, instead of showing that everything will always get worse, it would have succeeded more in making a positive statement in my opinion. But it was completely random.
Lilly Pfeilsticker at 00:54 "Welcome to your tape" 😂😭
75% of 13RW fanbase never actually had depression in their lives. The other 15% says they have depression but they blame their illness for every poor decision they make that ruins, not only theirs lives, but other people lives as well.
Shitty series ever. And it is still glorified by a bunch of 15 years old kids who says they want the world to be better but they also wish people to get killed or die if people don't agree with their opinions.
And funmy thing is, Hannah Baker didn't even had Depression. She killed herself for revenge. No wonder the name of the show is a short way to say "13 reasons why I killed myself" and then she gives the tapes to every single one of the 13 reasons she quotes to have ruined her life.
There’s really no point at all for a season 3. It was more than very evident what was going to happen AND what direction it was going to take. The dramatic scene of him getting a broomstick up his butt was just to push the idea that he’d go over the edge. That was a bit much. They a milking this heavy. Literally what else can they do? I’m sure they’ll find a way
Hannah showing up as a reoccurring 'talking ghost' was the thing that annoyed me the _most_ about season 2. She didn't contribute much to the plot (except for gradually pissing Clay off...and me), and it took away the point of 'her being gone' and everyone trying to move forward without her. Her being present as a 'ghost that has no clue why she's there' took away the impact of her suicide for me. Also, it wouldn't have hurt the costume designers to at least make her _look_ like a ghost. Maybe have her show up in the clothes she died in?? Make her look...ghostly? Her showing up looking like she never died, in a well put-together outfit seemed so out of place. Sure, let's just assume they have makeup and Forever 21 in the afterlife.
StrawberryCola
Except she *wasn’t* really a ghost. It was Clay’s hallucinations. They made it known in Season 1 that Clay had some sort of mental issues that could be remedied by prescribed medication. Couple that with losing a very important person in your life. He probably was going through psychosis, and you can see that affecting him all throughout this season. Remember how out of it he looked when he showed up to Bryce’s house with a gun?
MegaThrasher95 I know, I mean in the perspective of what they’re trying to portray as storywriters/filmmaking. I said ‘ghost’ because Clay sees his hallucinations as her haunting him. Either way, it’s still very poorly executed from a writing/film perspective.
I think you should watch the “behind the scenes” version of 13 reasons why season, or whatever it’s called. They talk about some stuff that is important about why they decided to make the characters make different decisions, like for example why Bryce didn’t get a longer sentence
I watched season 1 last year for pure entertainment without expecting much of it, and I did find it somewhat enjoyable, although I didn't appreciate the ultra-graphic depictions. Then I learnt they were pushing it as some form of PSA against suicide and I was like...what?! Then I learnt they were making a season 2 and I was like WHAT?!? There was absolutely no narrative reason for a second season, and now that I've watched it I'm so enraged with this show. I don't want to write a paper, but I'll put some of my thoughts here:
- I'll start with the only little bit of positive: I did somewhat enjoy Jessica's storyline. I found her reactions quite realistic, even those you pointed out. That "whatever", I read it more like her dying inside but trying to play it cool to avoid confrontation; and the polaroid thing: I felt it was realistic that a rape victim (who hasn't at this point come forward with it) wouldn't feel comfortable about forcing another rape victim to come forward. People tend to underestimate how traumatic going to trial is. Jessica also addresses how she isn't "the right victim" to bring a Bryce-type to trial, and I appreciated the fact that in the end, Bryce got out scot-free because that's unfortunately quite true to life.
Now on with the rant:
- Clay was never a good protagonist, but in this season I found him unbearable. He's so judgemental, he cares way more about "doing right" by a dead person than actually caring about the living, and he was just... too much for me. Also, for a show supposedly about mental health they did a good job of ignoring completely his very obvious issues (like hallucinating Hannah for most of the season)
- The obvious references to the Columbine shooters were frankly awful, period.
- It already started last season, but in this one, even more, we have these ultra-graphic depictions of brutal violence that are supposedly there to "tell things how they are" and "start a conversation". Like there wasn't plenty of evidence on the contagion effect of these things (they even freaking acknowledge the issue of suicide contagion, ffs!) They're honestly just doing it for shock value, and they know it, and it's disgusting given their target demographic.
- that last scene at school, what the hell. Like, is this show seriously suggesting that an appropriate response in a school shooting situation is running in front of the shooter, alone, and try to talk him down? And dissuade everyone else from calling the police? I can't, I swear...
Okay, sorry, I did end up writing a paper. Like you said very well, the issue is not censoring certain topics in media, but this is just a BAD representation of those issues, told in a very prescriptive way that does not facilitate a dialogue or critical thought, at all. And completely ignoring all qualified advice and scientific evidence on how to best deal with these sensitive topics. But I guess the show runners just know better than anyone else...
I'm so grateful it came out after I started to get better cause if I saw this show when I was younger, I don't even know. I've had depression, OCD, anxiety my whole life, and now I'm able to recognize the poor writing and melodrama, but then I don't think I'd be able to
« Listen to Adidon » in the background 😂 This guy is funnyyy 😂😂😂
“ I ain't Matpat, my theories do come true.”
but that’s just a theory, a FILM THEORY!!
Younger ppl tend to romanticize things already. Suicide is one of them. This show romanticized suicide, and it was obvious she was blaming others for her own permanent decision. Ppl may disagree with me here, but it was apparent to me as well that the longer the show aired, the more n more PC crap was shoved down my throat. If the show is about suicide, work on that message. Don't show me politics idc about. Funny how they made damn sure you saw the type of weapon it was haha. As if he would of been able to run in the school and start mowing everyone down with a .22 caliber, likely SEMI-auto AR-15. Ppl wanna act like somehow AR's just blast out a few hundred rounds a minute. Sorry for the ending gun rant, it's just apparent that they injected that gun issue and had a slow close up of the weapon to make you know it's an AR15, to further the narrative that they should ban assault rifles. And to also show another instance of a white kid shooting up a school, as if school shootings have been running rampant, when they have actually declined in number. The only thing that changed is the media blasting it thru your face nonstop.
It does glorify it, and people who have gone through that hate the series or like it bc it glorifies it. Serious issues are not your plot device, and you cant use them to give your series attention, those excuses the creators say are so dumb and even the professionals they talked to told them to not do it that way. If they want a teen drama, dont use serious issues to bring attention, surprise you have to treat them in a serious way.
This show just does not make sense! It's like the writers wanted us to dislike Hannah from the beginning!
This is my first time seeing you as a human and not a cartoon. Wild
Man you are the king of outros
All I'm saying is this show is the epitome of "Werther effect". There's a reason suicides don't get through the media is because it inspires copycat suicides, known as the Werther effect. And the show just keeps showing all those people missing Hannah and idolizing her, suddenly everyone loves her. If that doesn't show suicide as a good option then i don't know...
13RW is a complex and polarizing show about a sensative topic.
U'll have many reasons to hate or love it depending on ur perspective.
Sure on the superficial surface there's alot to hate, but if you really think about it, there's more to it.
S2 fixes and addresses many of the issues present in S1 like the counselor scene, clay n skye as well as the ending.
No despite the foreshadowing, i didn't feel one bit that that school shooting was the main issue. Of course, from my perspective.
S2 addresses alot of real world problems that doesn't get mainstream media attention often like mental health issues, male sexual assaults and how no one is truly flawless (Hannah). It also gives possible solutions unlike S1.
S2 was better and more appropriate overall in the end.
Fun fact: In the show Preacher, Hell is kind of like a prison and theres a guy that goes there for raping 3 girls, and its played by the same actor that did Bryce in 13RW (Justin Prentice), hell, the character even has the same personality and all, lol
13 Reasons Why still sucks anyways. Gonna wait for Cobra Kai season 2.
I honestly like the show. Not for the message, but because it is entertaining. I do agree that if you are struggling with any of the issues mentioned in the show, it can make you feel worse. This show is only meant for entertainment.
13 reasons why except that my death actually has no effect and i don't even know why im depressed and suicidal lmao
Listen to Adidon.
jfassettx123 he said something about Push so i guarantee he did 😂
the whiteboard in the background 😂
I don't agree with your half baked victim comment... I believe that whole, "you wanna chill?" scene one hundred percent. That kinda trauma, I couldn't even imagine, so if she would've stood up to him and been the hero; that would've been a lot harder to believe for me than her trying to get over what happened and trying to act normal with him again.
However! She's the only character I can get behind. Hannah's character is just so extra. Even in season 2! 13 Reasons Why? More like 6 Reasons, maybe.
I'm sticking to your reviews cuz I just can't sit through 13 more episodes of this 😂 👌🏽
I loved last year's video that you made on it lol
I completely agree with you
i absolutely loved the first season of the show. Kinda liked the second but not as much. I see a lot of people hate this show because they believe that the depictions of suicide and rape are used for just shock value but i disagree completely. I feel like it's great to show violence in it's purest form because it captures the attention of people who would have dismissed issues like these and would have turned their heads away from this kind of thing. Also, a lot of people are sheltered and like to believe that the events that happen in this tv show are over exaggerated/over-dramatic and don't happen in real life; therefore, raw depictions of these actions are somewhat necessary to raise awareness about how events like these actually happen and can help prevent more events like these from happening in the future. It's good that you dont need to see it graphically to realize that things like this happen and that your imagination can do the work for you, however others arent like that and if the show is going to raise awareness it needs to catch the attention of people who may be oblivious.
One if the things that people like to turn their heads away from is sexual harassment. The response to the generalization about how most women are sexually harassed is evidence of how sheltered people are and how insensitive they are when it comes to the topic. Catcalling is sexual harassment and im sure plenty women don't appreciate that kind of disrespect.
Although i enjoyed the second season, even i found the presence of hannah's ghost character to be funny at first, which i feel is intentional but later on i felt like hannah is simply how clay deals with finding this new information about her. Since clay wasn't in the most intimate relationship with hannah i always thought of his love for her to be an unrequited idealized infatuation. he was in love with the thought of hannah. hannah's presence was also a representation of clay's guilt. if i know someone that passed away by suicide was also raped and the rapist was roaming free and i knew who they were, i would feel guilty as well. I always hoped the conversations were in clays head as well but if it was in public i can see why that aspect didn't sit well with you. i feel like It isn't explained because this was a point of the show where they managed to be subtle and leave something to the imagination rather than being blunt.
when it comes to tyler, I would appreciate if the show didn't hold back more and actually went forward with showing a school shooting instead of cutting it out. In the last season they did a good job of building up to why Hannah Baker did what she did and it payed off to gut wrenching scene even though we all knew it was coming later on. However, not all people resort to suicide. Sure it would make some sense for Tyler to commit suicide as well however watching the show i felt like Tyler was the type of person who wanted to push through the issues at school. To me Hannah already seemed relatively hopeless and unfortunately she felt like suicide was the best option. Hannah never made too much of an effort to fight back against the people who tormented her. Tyler actually took action and took matters into his own hands during the show's second season which is why to me it made sense that he wouldn't fall down without a fight of some kind. Tyler had all the motivation in the world and it would have completely made sense to move forward with the school shooting.
I noticed in the video that you said there are so many ways someone can become suicidal, a school shooter, or how complex bi-polar disorder is and I just felt that was a bit nit picky. The show can't go over every single example of how one gets to a dark place in their life. Can you imagine how ambitious that would be and long that would take (multiple seasons probably). I wouldn't say it's binary thinking. and i think you're mistaken when saying the the writers are using this show as an answer to mental illness or something. i would say the show is trying to tell it's own unique individual story. I dont think the show's intention was to ever tell people to commit suicide for revenge or shoot up a school. I think it was trying to explain 1 particular and common scenario of why these kinds of things can happen.
One criticism that I also disagree with is when people say this show doesn't know how teenagers talk. Just because you personally haven't met teenagers who don't talk like they do in the show doesn't mean they aren't out there. There isn't a one size fits all for how teens talk. Yes the line "all my scars are inside" is a bit cringey; however, there are definitely some cringey teens out there who would say that kid of thing.
I absolutely disagree with the statement where you said that the show was romanticizing drug abuse by showing kids taking molly?! molly isn't a hard drug at all. It's another form of ecstacy and is barely used recreationally. most teens do it once and then they're done with it. plenty of teenagers have done it along smoking weed or taking acid.
i wouldn't say the character's are two dimensional without the tragic events in the story. without those events they're just regular high school teenagers who deal with the teenage angst we all deal with when we were at that age. that doesn't make them 2 dimensional that just makes them ordinary humans.
I dont have a problem with a show having a somber tone. u said that the show seemed hopeless and over bearing and to me life can be very hopeless with almost no brightside. it's unfortunate but it is what it is. that's not a flaw to me that's one of the reasons why i resonated with the show so much.
I can agree that at most half of the 13th episode is filler. to me a lot still happens. they show the horrible reality of bryce practically getting away with rape. clay finally gets closure and his family adopt justin who hooks up with jessica at the dance. we find out chloe's pregnant which leaves some people wondering how she's going to get out of the situation with bryce. tyler tries to turn his life around but feels like he cant once he's sodomized in the bathroom. it wasn't that much of mess.
if you couldnt understand why clay would want to save tyler i feel like maybe you weren't paying attention to the show's 2 seasons. In both seasons clay regrets that he wasn't able to stop hannah from doing what she was did. however he sees a chance to help tyler in the way he couldn't help hannah. clay may not know about what happened in the bathroom but he knows tyler has been suffering badly at the school and letting tyler throw his life away would be unfair. it is definitely wrong to advise someone to approach a school shooter in any way but tyler isn't any school shooter. if he was then he wouldn't of texted his ex. that text was a last cry for help and if it wasn't answered tyler would have felt absolutely alone and went through with it. sure it is stupid to run up to a school shooter but the show has shown us that clay would regret not trying to help someone like tyler; therefore, if clay has to risk death stop another victim of bullying at the school so be it. i'm sure that would be the mentality that he has.
the rest of the criticisms that were here to me are ultimately subjective. whether or not you find the show to be interesting or entertaining is matter of your personal preference i guess.
I can admit hat show definitely has flaws but a lot of them part of what i actually appreciate about. i just decided to leave this comment since to me the hate this show gets is so not deserved. at least thats how i feel.
Also I wasn't shocked that Bryce got away with it, rich, popular, star athlete boys don't go to jail for what they do.
I tried getting through it ,i couldnt . I thought it was dumb,it does not address suicide in a realistic manner.
great shit as always arturo!
well spoken brother
Great job
I didn't watch the whole video cause I haven't seen season 2 yet. I just wanna say that I loved the show cause I've been through some shit by myself and something I've actually seen people doing. So actually I relate to 13 reasons why.
But call me confused but I really loved your video too and I watched reviews for this show just to get another perspective and I think you did that really well.
Thanks for the video.
and if you came here before watching the show and you wanted to see the review first then I wanna say that you should watch this show only if you get emotionally connected to the character cause otherwise, you might end up getting bored.
I love how sociopathic she sounds on the tapes.
I think that she comes across like a vindictive selfish bitch which makes me think that she probably deserved most of the bad things that happened to her.
I think more people would appreciate the show if the producers said it’s for the people who aren’t dealing with depression and bullying. So that they can see signs and educate them on how things that seem little to you on the outside can have a greater effect on others. The show is also not a cookie cutter for all cases of depression and suicide. Different things work differently for different people. It’s intellectually dishonest to say that this is gonna help all people or no people. You have to way the cost but if you never try then everybody is lost. Also I hate that people poke holes in Hannah’s reasons, it is victim blaming. Nobody is a perfect victim and maybe things were over exaggerated based on your view point. But if it meant a lot to her than it’s jus as valid. We gotta do better at operating outside of our own reality.
0:45 BAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA I KNEW IT!!
Wow! Those people in the comments... Hypocrites. PS: I did not watch the show, but I read the book and I hated it. I really disliked Hannah and found her vindictive and eager to blame everyone for every single thing that went wrong in her life. Speak your mind AtZ!
Its not the writers themselves saying its everyone else. Its her. The character. She is blaming everyone one else when she could of done plenty of things to help herself.
JackIsNotCool And who is she? A character created by the writers. Come on man.
people think just cause it has a message...it shouldn't be criticized which is fucking stupid
😂😂😂half the time you are right and bathroom scene ahhh 😢😢😢😢
This show has so many chances to be good and ignores all of them. in the first season it should be focused on clay and how hannah is fucking up his life . how he is driven by morbid curiosity which he cannot escape. the focus should not be on hannah and they should not have centered so much on how hannahs plan is going perfectly and how everything she wanted is good and how she was just a poor victim. they should have played up how much damage hannah is doing and how she somewhat caused her own problems. making a show about how the suicide is affecting the people she knows would be a far better than the martyrdom of her death where everyone who speaks badly of her is seen as a bad guy. yes some of her actions can be explained by her depression and her traumatic experiences and some other people may act in a similar way however that does not mean you should play that as being a good action or the only choices she had
Maybe the season one finale was not to put in place this school shooting that didn't happen but it was to put in place the season 2 finale
Are you FREAKIN’ KIDDINGG ME ANOTHER ONE
I couldn’t agree more bruh.
I like the show and I respect your opinion.
I like the storyline and was hooked. But if you have an opinion on this show then I'll respect it and I agree with some of it.
(Also I enjoyed the video and you earned a subscriber)
as someone who has struggled with suicidal thoughts etc. i have mixed feelings on this show. though i definitely thought about hurting myself a lot more after watching the show, it also low key helped me just because it put it into perspective how much it would affect my family if i were to do something like that, because of the way it portrayed her parents after her death. i even talked to another friend who has a similar issue as me and he said the same thing. for lack of a better term, it triggers me a bit, but also helps me.
the show's still low key shit tho
I think only thing I did like about season 2 it show hannah nearly bad everyone they should gave focused on shooting Tyler if that was the case
*yelling* I ENJOY YOUR POINTS IN THIS VIDEO AND I FIND A LOT OF THEM VALID !!!
lets all agree that the mop scene was disgustingly uncomfortable. ok
ok
And I've been through something similar (not 13 tapes but like, suicide) and i hate 13 rw. Her suicide is shown as revenge and makes it look so pretty
Be a Bryce Walker in the world full of Clay Jensen
You don't have to be silent, but realistic and serious. They portray and play with suicide as if it's just a shock factor. I won't write an essay here on why 13RW is hot trash, but one thing that I will say is that 13RW doesn't treat death seriously. Hannah kills herself, but hey, she recorded some tapes with her thoughts and memories, she appears to people as a ghost/hallucination, so really, Hannah's death ain't so serious. It's almost like she isn't even gone, like death doesn't mean that you... die.
Marc Shanahan I agree with everything you said.
my thoughts exactly and also the ghost telling Clay what actually happened so he's got all figured it out but then it's like... did you really do this and hannah's playing the victim ...
But isn’t that true? You’re not gone until you’re forgotten. Regardless of their relationship, her death had an impact on all of them in one way or another, just like in real life.
What this show did was glorify suicide as a way to get people to care.
Pygmy Norton and go against mental health proffesionals directiona to not show suicide exactly as it happend but what do they know?
I hope you guys realize only clay could see Hannah because she is a manifestation of his guilt? Clay is the only one who can see her.
Just to focus on a single aspect, the person who committed suicide gets to give these tapes to people... when I was in middle school, I used to fantasize about having a suicide note read over the loud speaker, telling certain people how they hurt me, and also telling others how much they meant to me. Of course, that's a pretty ridiculous fantasy, that's not something that would happen in million years. Buuuut, maybe, sending tapes out? I'm glad I never thought of that. I'm glad there wasn't a show giving me suggestions. I'm glad there wasn't an outside source reinforcing that internal narrative, validating it. Cause I don't hate life as much as I did then, I'm not hopeless everyday. I don't know if I would be here to know that if I had been getting encouragement, and whatever the proclaimed purpose of the show, that's how I would have interpreted it when my brain was working against me.
Maeve Riden yes! This is a great point you have made
Same. I thought about leaving a suicide note, to show them how much they hurt me, and if i would have seen the show back then, i dunno if would be still alive...
I was also thinking about how the show would have affected me, had it existed during my first bad years when I was in high school, and that thought scares me.
The scene where she killed herself would have thrown me over the edge, it looked so easy.
Though every time I'm thinking about that scene I get mad, because she obviously didn't really want to die. She did it when her parents were home, she didn't lock the door, and she let the water run over. But hey.
... so in a single day, there are already comments from at least two more of us who aren't sure we'd be here with this kind of show out there. Three people, just in this one video's comment section. Three people who could be dead. How many more are out there? How many people could this be hurting? I wonder if anyone making this really realizes the damage they could do...? It sounds like at least one expert tried to raise an alarm, so whoever is producing this can't be completely ignorant- it looks like a deliberate choice to ignore the risks. That seems inexcusable...
Also, even now, it's nice to know I wasn't alone, so thanks. Fighting against your own mind is a tough battle, and I'm glad you guys are still here, after whatever you've gone through, to show that it's worth it to keep fighting.
It is infuriating that people are defending this show, when the producers didn't really seem to care about people who are struggling.
The guy had a tickle trunk of guns at the end of the season, how did anyone NOT think it was setting up a school shooting?
Dude at the end of season 1 I literally thought they were starting up season 2 with that. I was surprised that it was held off till the VERY END.
my idiot ass mates thought it was gonna be a "suicide attempt" like what, they already did that with Alex but na its a suicide attempt. and then they got mad kuss i "spoiled" the school shooting...WHAT DA FACK?
Actually there were many theories about a school shooting
It was held off till the end so it could be milked further, especially since they didn't actually go through with it so there's no aftermath content.
Where did he even get the guns from?
The biggest issue with 13 Reasons is that it's _not_ about suicide. It's about bullying, from an immature and self-centered perspective. Her suicide is a narrative tool used punish everyone else. That's why it doesn't deal with anti-depressants, therapy, or the most basic rule that survivors should _not_ blame themselves or others, but does blame the first rape victim for how her rape affected the main character, and treats her family's money problems as more important and severe than those of the character living in poverty with abusive and drug abusing parents. Even though Hannah is a) in the most privileged position of her group and b) initially focused on graduating and leaving this small town, the narrative jumps through illogical hoops to create a situation where the middle class girl with the stable family life is the primary victim with no emotional obligations to anyone else. It's even twisted to the point that when she makes out with another girl, that's only about that girl's sexuality and not her own.
Even the tapes don't express vulnerability, insecurity, and lack of self-worth. They express vindictiveness and blame through snide remarks and "drop the mike" lines.
Essentially, it's a long, drawn out version of, "You're being mean to me! How would you like it if I just died? You'd feel bad then!" Which is _not_ going to prevent suicides. It's not even going to prevent people being mean, because everyone who identifies with it sees themselves as Hannah while missing all the really terrible things she does to others. The only act in the story actually linked to inciting suicide is blaming teens for a suicide. Don't get me wrong, the rapist should face legal repercussions, as should the stalker. But in the real world, young people in Clay's position often commit suicide themselves.
Hannah gets _everything_ she wanted from her suicide. She gets to tell everyone off without having to hear about one thing she's done wrong, or how a healthy person would have found better solutions. Or how she sees causality where it doesn't exist (even when police are involved, a downed stop sign often won't be replaced for ages). She gets to blame everyone else while taking no responsibility for her actions, and never has to justify her highly skewed perspective. Even her parents stop grieving and start blaming and attacking the people she blamed in the ways she wanted but didn't bother to do while she was alive. And they even depict her essentially getting to see her victory. The narrative amplifies sympathetic viewers' self-pity and self-righteousness while depicting suicide as a very romantic, productive, and satisfying act which canonizes the suicide and destroys their enemies.
It went over your head
Such a poor understanding of the show
Hannah didn't do terrible things to others wtf are you even saying
The show is against suicide so IDK why you think like that
@@ibrahimzulfiquar668 I notice you have zero analysis or points to show it went over my head, or that you're right and she did nothing wrong by blaming others for her own, solitary actions and choices. Just to repeat, for everyone out there, first rule of suicide survivor's club is it's absolutely not your fault. Healthy people, especially ones in Hannah's extremely privileged position, do not choose suicide as a solution to problems they themselves explicitly admit they plan to leave behind in a year or less. That is mental illness, and terribly, tragically, heartbreakingly sad, but the reason is a chemical imbalance, and _not_ that you didn't read their mind and figure out a way to save them from themselves. And any real media against suicide wouldn't lie and depict the "reasons why" as external when they aren't.
If this had been about her inability to afford therapy and anti-depressents, or the difficulties of finding one that works, or coping with the various side-effects, or even how peers and teachers reacted to her mental health struggles, it would have been more honest about external factors.
I found your arguments really compelling and am not trying to argue with any of the main ones but 2 minor things came to mind I just wanted to point out...I wouldn't say that Hannah seems to be the most privileged or well off person in her friend group, have you seen Clay's house? Not to mention their "guest house" or whatever they call it that Clay & Justin move into in later seasons is bigger than my apt! Really most of those kids seem to be extremely privileged and well off with the exception of Justin.
Also, I wouldn't say Hannah's parents "stopped grieving" either, I mean you never stop grieving when losing a loved one, particularly a child I would imagine, & if anything I think it actually *was* their grieving that led them to start looking for "someone to blame", particularly the mother. I mean if God forbid my daughter were to do that, I can't imagine my first instinct would be to sue her school but everyone deals with grief in different ways and I think that was just part of her process.
But yeah, that's all, otherwise I was pretty in agreement with most of your arguments.
I love this comment.
@@ibrahimzulfiquar668 lol she wasnt perfect. She was also mean, she didn't stand up for herself which essentially is an oxymoron since she isn't shown as a weak and quiet girl, she's this witty teenage girl who knows how to deal with shit. She was just an attention seeker honestly. The character I mean. If someone is dying to take revenge and not end the pain, then honestly fuck that person.
man don't watch this just wait for 'coolcat stops a school shooting'
It's not happening, Daddy Derek backed out. Last I heard anyway.
noooooooooo !
Gonzalo is he going at it alone now ?
"Mumkey stops a school shooting but realizes how dumb yugioh is so he ends up doing his own shooting"
Ian lmao I love these coolcat memes. Daddy Derek will bless us with a new coolcat movie
13 reasons why yes:
1: *Money*
Repeat
יהונתן V exactly
If (int reason = 1; reason
The thing about the book was that it made Hannah almost unlikable. She was only made sympathetic through the eyes of the boy who liked her. The show messed this up so badly by showing the world through her lens and not his. She isn’t necessarily supposed to be sympathetic, but rather tragic. She was supposed to represent a large group of suicidal teens, not be turned into a soap opera.
Also, in the book, Hanna isn't the protagonist!
Sofia Sosa makes the book sound better the show had me annoyed
If u speak to any professional who works with people with mental health issues they warn people not to watch the show as it portrays a bad message
+George Fielder
That is so true. For Season 1 I really got the "you'll be sorry when I'm gone" vibe from it.
George Fielder you’re not going to die if you watch the shitty show lmao have control of yourself a shitty show will not manipulate unless you let it
Chris G that's just a dumbass comment you don't know people's Mental Health people get so offended over everything you got offended over a comment you don't think someone with mental health issues could be influenced by show based around suicide I'm sorry how you talk to people
Chris G You do know some ppl can be very fragile and experts warn that showing a graphic deception of suicide and the message of using suicide as a means of revenge can be tempting. In fact 2 separate girls (Priscilla and Bella) did kill themselves after apparently watching the show, and in Austria apparently 2 friends were forced to stop their suicide pact and copy cat suicides are a thing.
Remember the word you used. "some"
This TV-series is disgusting and the plot just awful, it's okay to talk about dark stuff in shows but the way Netflix did it was just terrible
d6d6d6d61 yeah that’s why I watch other Netflix shows.
No stfu
They did a great job
@@dalmir5212 bcz you stupid
The nerve
The audacity
Preach!! Freaking Amen! Snaps all around. I struggle with Depression, anxiety, and PTSD from emotional and verbal abuse (I call it a triple threat). As someone that was a targeted demographic 13 Reasons why failed on so many reasons for me. This show does not encourage healing and triumph over mental illness. This show can cause serious damage through triggering individuals which can result in attempts, relasps, and actual death.
Hannah Baker chose to take her life; she chose that. She can not put that on anyone else. She potrayed revenge suicide which is incredibly toxic and should NEVER be incouraged. I agree with the message that words can hurt but this show took that to an unhealthy extreme.
From personal experience you cannot force someone to try to get better. The individual have to make a daily choice to get better. Hannah didn't choose that. I myself even though I can blame my depression, anxiety, and PTSD on my abuser but if that is all I do then I will never ever get better. I choose to live. I choose to try to get better. I choose to try to move on and continue with my life. That is the only way individuals will get better and 13 Reasons why does not show that.
Entertainment can portray a message of you can choose to get better. Examples of these are Dear Even Hansen, Silver Linings Playbook, and To the Bone. I will not watching the second season for the fact that I do not want to encourage the film industry to continue to put out content that sends this kind of dangerous message
My issue with this show was, is and still is how they romanticize suicide and the other thing about it is Hannah herself, if you aren't engaged with the story you start to notice how mean spirited she is, the same goes for all the characters.
I found her annoying and narcissistic.
I feel that it does. It makes you believe that the person you have a crush on will suddenly realize that they loved you all along and be heartbroken over your death.
Anne Rittwage that's exactly why it appeals to many teenagers and it's very dangerous. That psychologist told Netflix not to go with this project for a reason but I guess money is more important. It's funny how a show that basically explains that a person's suicide is everyone else's fault would portray suicide in a way that actually made some teens kill themselves yet they don't feel like they have any kind of responsibility for those deaths and should stop right now. Fake wokeness at its best.
i hated her from the start she seemed very selfish and extremely oblivious to her friends feelings
Thomas Mitchell As much as I am a fan of it, I think it is quite apparent that the series does romanticise suicide.
This season was SO god damn bad. Poorly acted, and disgustingly pandering to young kids. As a person who is a personal survivor of sexual assault, I can understand the whole being afraid to name your attacker thing, but Jesus H Christ, Jessica with the "it's my story to tell" shit is utter trash. The only episode that really resounded with me was the beginning of the final season where all the women stood up and told their stories about their encounters with sexual assault. It happens so often, and I'm happy that 13 reasons why covered it at least half assed correct.
Really loved the book as depressed teenager. Am hugely dissapointed in the series
The fans claim that the show is "helping" people with mental illness and assault survivors by "spreading awareness" but come on...if that was the point they would've a) done only one season and b) not be so unapologetically graphic. Many people with ptsd from their own assaults have said the rape scenes in both seasons have made them physically ill. How is that helping? The writers are just doing this for shock value at this point. It's exploitation plain and simple. I'm not saying censor the show, but can it stop claiming to be so "woke" and to be doing this for people who are struggling? Because it's not for a lot of people. The show can be as shocking as it wants, but at least be genuine about it. The writers and the fans need to quit being so preachy when they know damn well it's for entertainment and nothing else.
And it tells the viewers that you have to be able to read minds in order to maybe prevent someone from committing suicide.
The fact that the show's fans, despite claiming it's trying to stop suicide tell people to kill themselves or threaten to murder them for not liking it shows that they only watch it to try to feel deep and intelligent. A show being about suicide, rape and bullying doesn't make it a good show or make it above criticism.
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After stomaching all episodes of season 1, I can safely say, as someone who is legitimately depressed and has repeatedly been suicidal, it not only incorrectly portrays suicide and depression, but presents dangerous ideas which can seriously harm those who are at risk of suicide, such as implying that Hannah had no way of getting help and that turning to an adult who can help you does absolutely nothing, making death seem meaningless, and portraying suicide as a good or effective method of revenge. No clue why this got a season 2, it breaks several of the guidelines put in place by CASP (the Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention), guidelines specifically meant to make sure that when a show or movie portrays suicide, they don't encourage or glorify it.
Overall, they failed to do what they set out to (besides make money, they succeeded at that,) and have likely done far more harm than good.
Hated the first season. I couldn't validate this girl making multiple bad decisions & blaming everyone else for the consequences of that. It just angered me. I will probably watch the second season just to confirm my original thoughts. ❤❤❤ATZ
Carys Is Awesome I do hate how everyone was treating Hannah as innocent when she was clearly wasn't. And as mentioned in the video, they still did in season 2. It pissed me off that Hannah had the nerve to be mad at Clay.
Alexis Roth I think the second season did a pretty good job at snatching her halo. She wasn't made out to be an angel, but was still able to be seen as a sympathetic figure
Considering how the lawsuit against the school didn't go through and Hannah's mother lost, it's kinda ridiculous how anyone could possibly say the show is purposely trying to make Hannah the innocent one.
Carys Is Awesome
I agree, it was truly aggravating and an awful message from the series, i know... Don't blame the victim, but saying you don't have to have common sense since if you end up being a victim is everyone else's fault... If you see a guy rape your friend, well maybe don't go to a party after a few days, alone, in his home and go swimming in your underwear? If 4 guys have rapist rumors around them, may be don't go to an abandoned shack with them? Hannah "we can't control who we fall for", i was like sure you can!!! You're declaring girls are governed by their instincts and emotions like animals with that, isn't that exactly what you're asking guys not to do?.
Art account IT Ya know, just this morning I thought about that. I wondered who's decision it was at the writing table to leave her character's moral compass on the fence. I feel like in theory it makes sense because that's how people work but in the story it translated to her being hypocritical, which was aggravating.
Season 3 video title- Another Another 13 reasons why not
marvin mora please tell me they aren’t making a season 3...
Sydney Kinzy they probably are, they have a talent for stretching out content
They should change the series title to 39 reasons why
@@quentinkinzy2044 they have.... and a fourth season too....
@@thetitanian5544 change that to 52 reasons why and it'll be spot-on.
I like your fearlessness in criticizing this show. I mean the show wasn't perfect. It has its flaws like many other shows out there. I definitely wouldn't recommend it to anyone suicidal, it definitely makes the victim look perfect, justifies her suicide and blames everyone else for her actions. It opens up the conversation but is meant to entertain not to solve the problem.
Gracie Grace - Season 2 definitely did not make Hanna look like a victim. Even in season 1, she witnessed a murder and did nothing about it.
Season 2 took any empathy away from our feelings about Hanna because we find out she was just as bad as the rest of them.
Not to say people can’t change and the actions of the others are justified. It’s just Hanna wasn’t a good person to start with which took a lot away from her as a character.
It doesn't open the conversation then. It's cheap drama done only for shock value.
“It opens up the conversation but is meant to entertain”
That’s the problem. The topic of suicide shouldn’t be treated as entertainment, it shouldn’t be glorified or romanticized. It’s disgusting in it’s approach, offensive to those dealing with depression and suicide, people who actually had relatives that fell victim to it. Glad I didn’t watch it.
That video was actually a reason I subscribed.✌
Katie Scarlett O'Hara was it one of the....13 reasons? I’ll go die now
Katie Scarlett O'Hara omg me toooooo
I never argue with people I know who like this show. Tried it. The show is Not for me. But I've grown to hate the show and I never really could put the reason into words. Your last point is exactly why.
Jason Maddy Yes. Me too. Its popcorn entertainment but when you look at the show from a realistic perspective, its just.. no.
I ain't matpat my theories come true
Ooooooooooooooooooooo burn
"They made it for awarness"
Bullshit
They trigger the People that live with these Problems
Its not raising awarness it makes These People with these People feel even worse because the Show is using the rape for example as a shock to shock the audience.
I know People with these Problems and they cried and felt horrible watching it
Not because of the Show but of the Things the Show did to them and reminded them off
It makes them feel horrible
Dont know how to Explain it but it does everything exept raising awarness in a helpfull way
StuTuDi No you explained it very well. Agree completely.
The scene with Tyler in the bathroom was probably the most painful and unnecessary scene I've ever watched. Instead of just implying what happened, they literally showed EVERYTHING. They even left the sound in, and you could hear the screams and cries of terror of Tyler. All the while Monty has a sick and heartless look on his face. I've watched plenty of horror and graphic shows in my life, (including Hannah's suicide scene)
but I have NEVER in my life had to pause the scene, walk around my house for 20 minutes and desperately try to convince myself that it wasn't real. Everytime I think about it, I have to clench myself for a bit, just to not imagine the terrible pain he went through.
ikr, it was so unecesary for the storyline
tbh i did the exact same thing with the pausing
It was so hard for me I couldn't even continue right after with the episode
DiamondDoodler it's not haunting this is reality. It's like a message to people what rape feels like so don't fucking Do it.
Beauty Geek the scene was still unnecessary. The only reason they put it in was for the shock factor of it.
I'm seeing what you doing in your VISION BOARD 😅
Just because something has a good message doesn't make it good. That's a pretty shallow way of judging material. The thing about the creators of this show and I problem I'm seeing in most of the world's media today is that while a lot of people have good intentions they have pretty bad ideas at how to implement them.
I don't think they had good intentions due to the fact that they absolutely disregarded everything the psychologists told them about how to handle such a topic. They wanted publicity, and money.
I liked season 1 but season 2 is unnecessary and then leading it onto a 3rd season towards the end is a complete joke and trying to turn it into some kind of show kind of shows how they want to milk the success.
This show is pure evil. It's damaging so many of the very people it promised to help. Someone needs to get a mop and give this show the Tyler treatment.
Magicman205 no
man, i liked the first season, i thought suicide is a real issue, we need to pay more attention to it, i have friends that are dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts but this second season is so bad, man, sooo bad. The way they tried to approach these problems is so wrong. And confusing, i thought it was so stupid that firstly they tell you hannah is so perfect and then they come out like "hey, hannah is a bitch but also a victim" like... what? and I agree with the jessica's problem saying it's not her story to tell... man, rape is a fucking crime and also CLAY... how come no one even noticed he's alone and he's talking to no one? and the "ghost" of hannah telling him what happened or that he can think whatever he wants...? it so fucked up. And when Tayler got raped at school.... and then he's at home just like nothing happened... no one noticed THAT?
If you think about we're all both victims and perpetrators in many different contexts, the old "you're the hero of your own story, but the villain of someone's else" and that's what the second season is about and everyone deals with that in so many different ways... the same about being raped while drunk or if you're a boy.
Of course most of the decisions for the characters and plot will consider what they're doing to keep the show going on and ratings always high, so we shouldn't expect some "Requiem for a Dream
-level" of complexity and darkness, but I believe it's going somewhere.
This show sucks, period. It has nothing to do with the problems they are talking about. THE SHOW IS TRASHHHHHHH. I DON'T CARE HOW ANY OF YOU FEEL. STOP COMBINING YOUR PERSONAL SHIT WITH THE ACTUAL ART OF IT. IT ISN'T GOOD, IT ISN'T WRITTEN WELL, IT ISN'T EDUCATIONAL, IT DOESN'T TEACH YOU ANYTHING NEW ABOUT THESE ISSUES, MENTAL AND OTHERWISE, IT'S NOT EVEN A VIVID PORTRAYAL, I WROTE SOMETHING LIKE THIS FOR MY WRITER HOUSE WHEN I WAS 16, THIS IS A JOKE, THE WRITERS ARE A JOKE, AND NO ONES LAUGHING.
THIS SHOW IS WRITTEN PURELY TO MOVE EMOTION, WITHOUT ANY REAL PURPOSE, WITHOUT ANY REAL MESSAGE, AND LIKE MOST SHEEP YOU HAVE ALL FALLEN FOR IT. BUT WHAT THE FUCK DO I KNOW, I JUST LIKE HAVE BEEN THROUGH MOST OF THESE MENTAL AND PHYSICAL BATTLES WITH MYSELF AND FOR FRIENDS. SO WHEN I SEE A BULLSHIT PORTRAYAL OF SUICIDE AND RAPE I'M GOING TO CALL IT, AND THIS IS EXACTLY THAT. A COLLEGE THESIS PAPER DOES A BETTER JOB
man, i agree
Yea my girl and I binged and was like is it me or is Hannah kind of a bitch and then ending in cliffhanger saving the school shooter tf and now you are telling kids to confront a school shooter lol
Movies 4Real she was a bitch from the first few episodes which let me know that i wouldn’t like her
Ok, I actually understand Jessica when she said it's not their story to tell. I believe you even said in your first video and Hannah revealing Jessica's rape to her over the tape was manipulative. See, Jessica was saying that the girls needed to tell the story themselves because it would be a moment of power for them. Otherwise, if they hear it from someone else, they're crushed.
She didnt by name
Omg you should watch Riverdale. The first season was pretty good and the characters were actually likeable and it was good dumb fun. Then in season 2 it became a total mess like the characters and the plots and everything, but it was still fun to watch because you can criticize and make fun of the writing (even the own Riverdale fans were ridiculing the show) because its a fictional thing. BUT in 13 reasons why you cant say shit to any die hard fan because ITS A SHOW ABOUT SUICIDE, ARE YOU BLAMING THE VICTIM, YOU SICK FUCK, and all that shit that people tell you, LIKE ITS FICTIONAL PEOPLE IT IS!!
13 reasons why is the xxxtentacion of netflix shows
Woke
Luke Scott LOOOOOOOLLLL. with a little bit of j cole too
E.t no
This comment has aged interestingly...
Luke Scott rip
*🎵all the other kids with the pumped up kids 🎵*
Oh God.
I remember hearing this song not knowing what it was about, and then hearing Zac Efron and Taylor Swift singing it on Ellen.
I haven’t watched the show, but I read the book in high school. It was because a dear friend of mine was going through depression and my friends and I wanted to monitor what she was reading, and let me tell you, I was never as relieved as when she told me that she would never do what Hannah did because it was bullshit. That’s why I can’t support the show: mentally ill people are drawn toward mental illness stories, and that’s a good thing but only if the stories can be helpful to their struggles, not if they glorify the illness and legitimize toxic/harmful behavior
Thanks for saving me the time cause I wasn't going watch it
my overall problem are the tapes(dude really thats pycho) and the fact that literal doctors told them not to portray suicide the way they were going to and did it anyways. im sorry but it should not take a god damn show/book to realize you need to treat people like a human being. i get that it starts a "conversation" but for someone thats dealing with their mental health, i feel like its a slap in the face. idk lol let me shut up now. and since you bring up riverdale...i genuinely love the show but the "dark betty" stuff is fuckin weird
I honestly liked season 1. Thought it was great and had mature story telling. Yes it was graphic, but it never felt like exploitation to me anyway. Season 2 had the exact opposite effect. I get it though, they want to start a conversation, but in season 2 it felt like they just wanted to shock us more than have a compelling story.
Supernatural and Arrow are the only really good tv shows from the CW
There was literally no need for a season two, they just needed some cash for a life-size statue of Jake Paul dabbing.
Great video man! *claps*