Purchased this ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y after researching several brands.Reasons for picking this one was, dual fuel, I don't have to carry gasoline and stink up my truck bed!Propane is so much cleaner.Quiet 62 db, won't piss off neighboring campers!Less than 100 lbs, can lift in to truck bed.I can run my 30 foot Transcend 261BH, AC among other appliances.
@PatienceZero ever hear of LifePO4 batteries?? If used solely as backup power, they’ll last a lifetime! Even if used in an off-grid situation with solar and cycle every day, they’ll last 15-20 years! You should do more research.
Had to laugh when I read the comment left by Larry Royovitx saying he'd have to win the lottery to got the battery route. He's not far off, I have a large house. I went out for quotes. If I get the largest air cooled Generac standby generator they offer (i.e. 24K) with a turn key installation, all electrical cableing and gas trenched and buried which includes a 75 foot run of gas line and installing a 200amp transfer switch... the total bill was $12,500. Certainly not inexpensive! BUT... the best price I got to power my home using inverters and batteries would require I win the lottery. 48 kW of power inverters, 30 kW of solar panels and a 50 kW generator would provide me with 200 kWh's of energy storage. Very nice indeed... however the price tag was a little over $150,000. I went with the 24k generator.
except you're not taking into consideration the long term fuel expense and maintenance. Don't know where you live, but if you live near a hurricane area, the power outage can last for several weeks. To power your house for that length of time would cost thousands in fuel cost. Plus if you don't maintain the generator correctly, it may not start when you need it. Not sure why you might need 30kw of solar panels, but my house which has 2 AC units and pool heater will be completely covered with grid live or off grid with an 18.4 kw solar system with 30kw battery system with micro inverters for roughly 80k and my monthly cost is the same as my current bill with the added peace of mind knowing that I have uninterrupted power.
@@Imwright720 You might be thinking of models from Generacs "liquid cooled" lineup. Generacs liquid cooled generators are about twice the price of their air cooled kw equivalent models but the benefit is they are very quiet by comparison and tend have a longer lifespan. I purchased the 24kw "air cooled" installed for $12.5 . Currently Generacs closest to my 24kw from their "liquid cooled" lineup would be their 25Kw RG02515 Protector Series with a price tag $11,300 "without" installation... as opposed to their 24K air cooled unit which starts around $6300 "without" installation.
In the most recent power outage, I was without power for 24 straight hours. In order to run my 3 ton hvac, well pump, refrigerators, and septic system takes 14kw. I'm NOT running the 4ton hack, or hot water heater. There is no battery system for under 10k that will meet the need.
During Sandy, we lost power for three weeks before they replaced the power pole across the street that got taken out by a falling tree. Battery wouldn’t have helped.
Well. I have a Grid tied 10.5KW. Solar Panel system. Backup 2 battery system was 20,000 plus 4,500 INSTALL fee for total 24,500.00 plus solar @14500.00 solar is 39,000.00 US $ generac 22kw $7,500 installed 15 seconds from power failure time.
You can get a 28kwh top quality lifepo4 battery bank and a Sol-ark 12k with 20 350 watt panels for about 25k. Easy to install yourself. It will reduce your power bill and provide backup. No maintenance, higher reliability, longer lasting, no fuel costs. Have you seen the maintenance and repair bills on those generacs? Many power companies are providing incentives for these types of battery backups and even letting you sell back power at critical times at a good rate.
I am all for different alternatives for back up power systems but the reality is that cost of a (battery specific) system that can actually handle an outage for just a few days (let alone weeks) worth of a power that is needed to maintain a home due to a storm does not make sense financially. 2000-4000 thousand for a stand alone natural gas or propane generator vs a Tesla wall / equivalent system which on average will run 30 to 60 thousand is an easy choice IMHO. Even if you factor in all available rebates/tax credits I would think someone that is objectively looking at this problem would choose either a natural gas or propane system unless money is not a real factor in the equation. Please don't get me wrong as I would absolutely prefer a system that was silent and that did not emit any hydrocarbons but again when comparing the pros and cons objectively I think most would lean towards a conventional generator system.
@@levelup843 There is no way in the world a battery solution with solar will keep up with anything but the tiniest of homes in an area where you need AC. If you live in an area where temperatures get above 80 degrees you can't make a battery solution that will be self sufficient and run everything in the home. It's just not possible, so for the rest of the country that doesn't live in a tiny house in a permanent 70 degree climate (which is about 92% of us), it's not a solution even worth considering. Battery is great as a very short term bridge between using a generator and getting power back in a 1-2 hour outage. I live in an area that has no earthquakes and an unlimited supply of natural gas, and temperatures often over 105 degrees for at least 1/2 the year, so solar is impractical, cannot keep the house running more than a few hours, and ridiculously expensive if you need the level of power we do. Our grid is old, and the local power company ignores it and hardly ever upgrades or does maintenance so we are guaranteed anywhere from 5-15 days a year with no power, maybe even more in tornado season. A natural gas generator is our only option of staying alive when we get a week long outage and the temps are 100+. Also what happens when you get 5 days of rain or overcast sweltering conditions? Your battery solution charges at a third of it's normal rate due to the overcast and of course not at all at night, but your consumption doesn't change..however the natural gas generator doesnt care if it's cloudy or not, its a constant KW all day every day, except for the hour or so to do maintenance every 3-4 days of use. Well worth it... I'm not bashing battery power options, if you can get away with just battery by all means rock on, but they are not for everyone and people that live in specific areas and climate types need to be very careful committing to them, they just don't work without a generator to rechange them in many cases and locations due to a variety of factors. I have a neighbor who tried a exclusive battery and solar panel solution, and he wound up scrapping it for a NG generator after only a couple of miserable summers where it failed him and his family. Now it's supplemental power, which is really cool, but it could never work as exclusive.
I fixed it for you. So what happens in snow storms when your commercial power is out....your solar panels are covered in snow (on your roof) and your batteries are dying, and the wind turbines are frozen solid, like in Texas. Batteries are nice to run your TV and computer, but cannot run a heater for a long duration of time.
What happens when you have no gas supply? You are hosed. You can always move the snow off the panels, panels are widely popular in very cold places like Norway
Hurricane rita, power was out for 21 days. Hurricane ike, 7 days. Harvey, 4 days. Currently in day number 4 without power due to winter storm uri. A decent battery backup system would likely cost me around $50k, and may give me 2 days of heating or cooling if I'm lucky. $65 in gasoline has lasted 4 days and I still have enough to power me through tomorrow night. If you're scared of the dark and need a night light to get to the bathroom, go with battery. If you your family's life depends on it, stick with what works.
@@ryanfoster6514 Been on generator power now for 14 days (Hurricane Ida ) and probably 7-12 more days wait on power restoration at 25.00 a day on fuel plus expense of getting gas for generator. Does not seem to cost efficient to me
@@michaelmccormick3077 do you have an idea how many batteries you’ll need in your case? At least $130,000 in batteries alone, not to mention solar panels, which might get blown away in the hurricane.
I DON'T want to be that one neighbor with lights on in a blackout. Depending on how long the blackout lasts, you will make yourself a target? No thanks.
@@BY-fd7bi Well... It's not like your solar ARRAY isn't visible from your rooftop assuming your roof-type is a cape. Assuming you didn't go with the silent diesel generator................ LOL.
I'm that guy. For the last 10+ years I had a large AGM battery bank transfer switches and inverters. A few years ago when we lost power in the evening for 8 hours, I lined up my system and turned on my outside lights, opened my windows, vacuumed my upstairs bedroom, then put War of the Worlds on the big screen and turned up the surround sound. Meanwhile, the neighbor had candles lit. Its a safe upscale neighborhood and nobody has a clue about these things. Its cool to look down the canyon and not see any lights on for a mile. The next day the neighbor lady asked why I had power and no generator sound. I told her that I was on Southern California Edison (400 miles away) and she was on PG&E. I am more careful these days and don't show off. I even have rolls of heavy aluminum foil to black out windows as needed for long term outages. But at Thanksgiving in 2019, we lost power for 9 hours after dark when the first rains came and a car took out a power pole. I was probably the only person for miles who cooked a turkey on batteries. The new second battery bank is lithium LiFeP04 and it was a great field test. They did very well.
@@rpbajb With a whole neighborhood of darkness to target, you can be sure that the house with the lights ON is the house that the bad guys will avoid. No lights mean the bad guys are less likely to be seen and if they are seen, it means a homeowner will be less likely to shoot, since he cannot positively identify the target as friend or foe. The bad guys love darkness and hate lights. That's why houses near street lights are burglarized far less often than houses several houses away from a street light. If you're worried about burglars, then you definitely want to be the one guy in the neighborhood with lights on, in a blackout.
Yes, these are reasons batteries might be preferable but this guy presents them as if they are overwhelming better choices when they aren’t. There are plus and minuses for both batteries and generators and cost is a factor. Many people with batteries rely on generators to recharge batteries during long outages when solar isn’t available. Batteries are a good choice for some and generators are better for others.
So, 2x Tesla Powerwall 2 with installation is around $20K, giving you a total capacity of around 27kWh. This will power your home for around 6-8hrs, even less in extreme conditions (freeze or high heat). By comparison, $10K gets you a 14kWh+ generator, installed, which will power your home indefinitely. This is not even apples to oranges. One is a toy for the rich, other is a viable backup solution.
Check out my system, ask for an estimate. I typically sell Sol-Ark units with a 28kwh battery bank. With 20 panels its about 25k. Can install 40 panels. Lifepo4 batteries last a lot longer, you can plug in a $800 generator and you have a backup system that will offset your power bill last much longer and has no maintenance.
I agree with the base price. But, how much does the fuel cost for the generator? I'm not bashing generators. I really am looking at both types to get a good total cost of each. I have an all electric house. No gas or propane lines here. So, I'd need a tank of some sort. That's why I'm trying to figure fuel costs. I'm assuming I'd need to fill that tank up.
Fuel cost would vary depending on year and location. If you have high capital and live in a place where it does not snow, I generally* suggest solar with battery. If you live in a snowy, tear your roof, any hail commin down. Get a generator. Sizing also play into the cost. I'd say pick the smaller generator and run it intermitently. Eco mode in generators are prolong operation, but severely lessen the total power generated per fuel used.
@@christopherort2889 Here in Louisiana I can run my whole home 24kw Natural Gas generator at a cost of about 200$ for the NG for 7 days. That's one night in a hotel cost...not to mention the value of saving all my frozen food and meat...etc. That is with everything i need running, business as usual home operation. 200$ to not be displaced for a week and lose all my food? Yeah not even a question..EASILY worth it and affordable. I have a neighbor who went battery bank/solar about 2 years ago and during our last outage that lasted 5 days...he left on day 2 to find a hotel. His batteries were totally drained and the panels were charging at a deficit that he couldn't ever catch up to, even with everything off. Temps were over 100 in his house after the batteries gave out. I wound up taking his food for him and putting it into my nice and cold mud room fridge till he and his wife came back. First thing he did when the power came back on, he installed a NG generator to keep the batteries running......he was not a happy camper with the company that overstated the battery bank capability and panels when they sold him on it......
If I had the money I personally like Generac's ability to have the generator be able to charge the batteries when solar is not enough. Pacific Sun Tech is in S. California. They may get snow once every 3-5 years and the chances of that snow covering their solar panels for more than a day (unless up in Big Bear) is slim to none. In the rest of the country (and now Texas) it's sometimes more than a week before solar panels are uncovered. Having a generator to supplement when solar fails is the trifecta in energy independence. Anyone have a Spare $85,000 sitting around that I can use?
Hey there! I totally get where you're coming from, it's important to have a backup plan when relying on solar power. If you're looking for an alternative to generators, I'd recommend checking out the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series. It's a versatile powerhouse with a massive capacity, fast recharging, and comprehensive protections. Plus, it's built tough and even waterproof! Definitely worth considering for outdoor enthusiasts like us. Cheers!
We're, presently, testing these battery operated generators. Our findings are that the batteries are still not adequate for the duration of emergencies, unless you have them hooked-up to solar cells to recharge them. Gas generators meet those needs, but are dangerous to operate for people who do not know safety instructions. But no, battery generators are NOT there yet.
What you failed to disclose is the difference in price, 899.00 for a generator and 60,000 for the solar battery setup. Not to mention if the sun doesn’t shine for 2 days you will need to buy a generator anyway.
This is completely bias in favor of home batteries. I’d love to have a battery scenario set up in my house but I’d have to have roof solar panels installed but still if a hurricane passes by, it won’t be certain to have sun for days so where will the batteries get recharged from. Also, I’d need at least 3 batteries installed in order to run most of the stuff in the house mainly A/C system, but they won’t last long either. It is definitely not the best solution for now. Maybe when they get cheaper in the future. And a gas generator doesn’t only get installed via city gas supply. There are gas tanks (like 500 gallon tanks) that get buried underground and connected to the generator. There are all kind of options out there and you just need to do your research and see what best applies to your needs. Btw, nowadays standby gas generators are not that noisy like the one on the video. That must’ve had some type of issue to make that noise.
It sounds like you are perfectly happy with the idea of a battery system, as the large tanks of gas are just the same, but you would prefer not to be connected to uncertain gas for uncertain times. Keep the regular electric sources, but also charge up your backup battery. If electric companies choose a variety of ways to get energy they would be more reliable than having only 1 source. How do you feel about a hybrid-source system with home battery for emergencies and peak-use hours?
Having just survived Hurricane Ida with little roof damage and no damage to my solar panels, I'd be more than interested in adding battery backup. I live in an area that was ground zero for Ida. The eye of the storm parked itself over my town for 6 hours. We were flooded and many neighbors in the older areas suffered tremendous roof damage. I was really concerned with my panels acting as sails in the 120+ MPH winds but thanks to hurricane clips, my roof and my panels remained largely intact. With respect to lack of sunshine after a hurricane, keep in mind that a hurricane is a low pressure system that spins in a counter-clockwise direction. Once a hurricane has passed, there is usually clear skies for the next few days thanks to the high pressure that settles in behind a storm. After Ida passed through, there were nothing but high temperature and sunny skies. My only concern is how big the battery system is and where it would need to be installed. I would definitely want it elevated to protect from flood waters.
We had a bad winter a few years ago. Several weeks of very little solar generation. On the good side, natural gas never failed. Lots of frequency power outages. Only the generator was useful. We just need to make the choice based on our use case.
"it does quiet down when you close the lid" gosh these guys are sharp. Take it from someone dealing with the rolling blackouts in Texas...we'll be putting in a ng generator as fast as we can.
Bro I live in Houston and had a generac generator place months prior and it paid off during the historic winter, it powered my entire home, keeping my family at ease and comfortable. Had me singing, this little light of mine, am gone let it shine" to the whole neighborhood.
@@philliptorrea1166 exactly! I'm getting someone out to install one as soon as I can. Batteries are a joke, they would have been dead and useless by day 2...Genny is the only way to go.
@@jberry1979 I agree. I was looking at a couple of solar generators that are well known in the market, however, the downside is the units are inoperable below 32 degree weather. The arctic blast in Texas placed our temps in the low teens. A solar generator would have rendered me useless the second day I was out of power. I'm grateful I had my fireplace to keep me warm and cook my meals. I believe the Generac is a clear winner, but there's such a huge demand right now that they can't make them fast enough. Place our orders and pack our patience, I suppose.
@@Liz-lp3ms exactly. We got a quote and plan in place Saturday and got in line for an order should have ours installed by the end of April so we'll be ready for hurricane season.
Close the lid and the sound goes way down. Batteries have to be replaced after so many years (expensive). Your battery backup won't run your 3-5 ton air conditioner.
I understand love the neighbors but if my power goes out I’m not spending $30,000 on a battery back up generator are use my standby generator and if my neighbors don’t like it oh well when I’m in my house you can’t even hear it running and that’s that
@@crosisofborg5524 The guy across the street was a member of Santana in the 1980's. He's a guitar instructor now in his 70's. When he lights up the air with his guitar, everyone loves it. I helped him rig his Honda eu3000i gen set.
@Abraham Ghannam when the power is out, and your "neighbors" don't like the noise from your generator... they also must like not having any power, AND ticking off the only neighbor that could help them a bit. As far as noise goes, if its a real issue **for the generator owner** there's always honda gensets. Cost more, but are good reliable generators, that are much quieter.
@@crosisofborg5524 no worries, they won't be blasting music during a power outage since they don't have a generator. Also blasting music isn't a need. A generator during a blackout is... With that said, no real reason to be running a generator at night though.
@@crosisofborg5524 I’m a musician I never called the police to each their own there are some snobby neighbors though most of my neighbors are understanding
I can run dryer, oven, heat pump, plug in welder in garage. Batteries will not. Have you seen a lithium mine and it's destruction on the environment. Utility companies use backup batteries for there own system outages and they will deplete in first 24 hours of stand alone use. This may be good for southern California but not for midwest and northeast.
I'm late to this discussion, but I haven't seen ppl talk about off-grid systems. A few companies are now making all-in-one solar power stations that can supply a house. In most of the Western parts of the US, this is a viable option that will continuously provide power. If you have a secondary backup with a gas/diesel generator, don't use it to power your house, running it 24/7, use it to recharge your battery system so that your generator is only running for a few hours, thus saving fuel. Many fully charged solar house systems can provide power to the house for a few days if you're careful with your energy use. And off-grid systems can cost as low as $5k, not the $30k or $40k or more that grid-tide systems cost.
It is laughable how people are still trying to equate the use case and performance of generators and batteries. Generators turn a continuous supply of energy into electricity enough to power the items in your home as long as that source is supplying energy. Batteries, even with solar input are simply storage that will eventually drain to the point where it is unusable. Then they require recharging to be of use. What this guy and others are saying is completely equivalent to "All of you with gas powered cars, ditch your alternator and run on the battery alone". You car will certainly run for a short period, but will then die. These people selling batteries are completely misleading people and they count on dumb consumers to not understand the differences in technologies.
exactly, and the batteries will cost more than the generator. And you still need to spend much more on a system to charge them. Let alone replacing them every few years.
Thanks for your time and effort with the video. Couple of questions for you: 1) How much does it cost to install a solar panel / battery backup system capable of powering a house? 2) Will a battery system power a central air conditioning system / heat pump and for how many hours straight? 3) Will solar panels work well in a week of rain or snow? 4) What is the life expectancy of the type of batteries needed? 5) How much would it cost to replace a house battery system at the end of it's life expectancy? Thanks again for the video.
This video has a lot of misinformation. The way a battery works is basically two poles, an anode, and a cathode. electrons move back and forth from these poles as the batteries are charged and discharged. Electrons move from anode to cathode when discharged. Then move back when charged. However, not all come back. As we charge and discharge the battery, more and more never come back to the anode. Each time this occurs is considered a battery cycle. Therefore all batteries have a limited amount of cycles. A typical 18650 battery used alone can have about 500 cycles before it barely holds a charge to be viable. A Tesla/Panasonic-developed 21700 architecture can do maybe 1000 cycles. So depending on the size of your battery setup or power wall. it can last from 5 to 15 max 20 years with current technology. Long story short, #7 Batteries run indefinitely is not true. Even if a battery is not used, it only has a stand-alone shelf life of 8 years before it begins to break down or if not stored correctly.
He didn’t mention the price and the life expectancy of the battery’s and solar panels. It’s too expensive and generators are still the way to go. Maybe in the future if they can get the prices down
Batteries degrade after time, some can explode. If the battery dies you can’t recharge it. The POWER IS OUT ! If I’m running low of propane, I just call for more before my generator runs out of fuel. I have no confidence in batteries plus it could damage your appliances if your battery watts are too low for your home.
Many people in Texas, who had battery and solar combo systems, found themselves without power last week, when solar panels were covered with snow for days and the batteries could not be recharged. Then the snow melted, but there were thunderstorms for a few more days, that prevented the batteries from reaching a workable charge. By contrast, my noisy generator just kept pushing power into my home, while many Texans waited days for all those frozen windmills to be de-iced, so they could get power back. (They were also waiting for snow to be scraped off of solar arrays.) Also, batteries are less eco-friendly than natural gas or propane, because if you have enough batteries to power your home, it means you have a boat load of heavy metals to dispose of, every time the batteries reach end-of-life. There is no easy way to dispose of metals like lithium or lead and recycling them is very expensive. Thanks anyway, but I'll stick with natural gas and a little noise that will last the entire length of a days-long outage, such as we see with hurricanes, on the gulf coast and more recently with a freak snow storm.
@@marriedwithchildren-familylife your response is a non-response. It is a type of logical fallacy called a psychogenetic fallacy or "Bulverism". If you are not aware of that term, it means that the debater begins by assuming bias and then, based on that "perceived" bias and without offering any argument (let alone, proof), the debater dismisses the arguments that he cannot refute. Bulverism is typically a tactic of a desperate debater, who has no logical arguments or proof, to support his position. Just sayin…
@@allegiancebooks1201 hmmm a war of words.... lmao, too bad you came unarmed. I can support the 'HELL' out of my position if I wanted to, however it's useless to argue against self-serving greed. 'You', obviously did not appreciate a little humor so you took to insults. Your post was nothing more than sarcasm and innuendo , in case you are not familiar with the terms, are: sar·casm /ˈsärˌkazəm/ noun the use of irony to mock or convey contempt. "his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment" AND innuendo: in·nu·en·do /ˌinyəˈwendō/ Learn to pronounce noun an allusive or oblique remark or hint, typically a suggestive or disparaging one. "she's always making sly innuendoes". You gave no proof, reasonable argument or statement without your own perceived bias. You brag about your private generator, yet laugh at those who relied on other sources of power. It was NOT their fault that the TEXAS power grid failed but continued to be charged. People froze to death, man! Just saying....
@@marriedwithchildren-familylife the three key phrases in your comment came in the beginning, when you said, "war of words.... lmao, too bad you came unarmed", which is known in debating circles as, "ad hominem" (a personal attack, meant to deflect attention from the fact that the debater has no valid counter), when you said, "IF I wanted to" [emphasis added], which debaters call, "ipse dixit" (a claim or assertion that is presented as true without support), and when you said, "it's useless to argue against self-serving greed", which goes back to bulverism (you argue that it is unnecessary to present valid proof, because of an assumed bias), which appears to be one of your favorite go-to dodges. As mentioned above, bulverism is most often used as cover for the fact that the debater has no valid counter to the statement(s) he wishes to refute. For example, both political parties often use bulverism to discredit VALID ideas of the other side (i.e. "It can't be true, because President ______ said it and he's biased."). Bulverism is meant to convince the listener to ignore the fact that more than half of the time, the reason a person is "biased," is because he has done his homework and is probably right. In fact, it can't be argued that most of the windmills in Texas did not become inoperative because of the snow and extreme cold, because that's exactly what happened and has been widely reported. It cannot be argued that when one part of a power generating grid fails, other parts of that grid don't have to take up the slack, which overloads those other parts of the grid, because that's what always happens. Even with protections against cascading, the overloading of remaining power systems forces controlled rolling blackouts. It can't be argued that solar cells were not inoperative, because they were not covered with inches of snow, because they were packed with so much snow that it would not slide off without physical help (just like snow packs on your slanted roof). We have more than a few homes in our subdivision, that have solar on their roofs and with the sole exception of one house with solar, all of them were dark for days during the Texas storm. That one exception had a portable gasoline generator running. Since that time, driving past three of those several homes, including the one that used the portable generator, I noticed they had installed a far more dependable whole-house generator. During the Texas snow storm, we lost almost all solar generating capability in Texas and most of the wind capability. As a percentage of each, we lost more than twice as much wind generating capability, as we did natural gas generating capability. Like it or not, natural gas is way more dependable, both on a large scale and for private home generating. There are many reasons why I don't care for wind generation. But other than its lack of dependability, most of those concerns are minor (for example, how it destroys a beautiful landscape). OTOH, solar and batteries present far more serious issues. I used to run very large IT departments and in multiple cases, we had up-time requirements that required us to have multiple diesel generators and a whole room-full of banks of batteries to handle the load, for the few seconds it took for the generators to come up to speed. Every few years, those batteries had to be replaced and the cost was huge. Not only did we have to pay for new batteries, which was substantial, but we had to pay to have the old batteries carried off and recycled. In each case, since we were a business, those costs were budgeted costs that were necessarily passed on to our customers, as just another cost of doing business, in the form of higher prices. But the overriding factor is not the high price of batteries. It is the ecological damage that they cause. Most companies that use batteries pay to recycle them. Actually, I believe that in most states (if not all), companies can be heavily fined if they don't. But many homeowners just throw their old batteries in the garbage over a period of days, rather than pay the huge cost of recycling. That may be against the law in their state, but the chances of being caught is slim. With a natural gas generator, I don't have to decide if I want to break the law, because there is no reason for me to do so. The two backup batteries that power the house during generator startup are not expensive to recycle. In fact, most counties and large cities now have recycling centers that will take small quantities of such batteries, without charging. Moreover, since those intermediate batteries are only used for about five seconds at a time, they will last years longer than batteries that power the house for hours on end. Natural gas generators are just a far more economical and ecological solution than solar and batteries. They are also more dependable than wind turbines and they last for decades.
For total redundancy, the answer is you need both. Do you think you can do you videos in front of a battery like in the garage etc. The kitchen videos have me me skip your videos but your content is good.
As a matter of fact it was in the dead of winter and the temperature was zero out and my neighbors heat was out I let him plug into my generator and to this day he’s thanking me because we were out for two days with subzero weather we slept good those two nights so usually you help out your neighbor I’m sure they’re not gonna mind when you turn on the heat
I live in florida,and I was without power for 7 day's. After that I installed a small D I Y with 4 ,100 watt RENOGY panels,a 40 amp charge controller charging my 8,six volt batteries giving me 1600 amp hours that supplies my 3000watt pure sinewave inverter.works great,supplies all my 120 volt needs.now I only have to run my generator for the well pump and any 240 appliances.saved me a lot of fuel.really pleased with the set up.
You´re right, there is not one "universal" solution. In my case, a small setup with solar, wind and a biogas powered generator would be more than enough, even though I´ve got grid power in the middle of nowhere in my mountain cabin in Venezuela.
1) The cost of my generator was a small fraction of what solar and batteries would cost. 2) My generator has lasted for more than a decade and probably has a few more decades of life left. 3) My generator requires very little annual maintenance (oil changes, etc.). 4) Batteries have to be replaced every few years, based on use and replacements are almost as expensive as the original install. 5) It is very expensive to recycle Batteries and in most states that is required by law. 6) Even recycling those heavy metal batteries leaves a much larger carbon footprint than my generator.
I think having both is a good idea. Batteries are good for low power devices (running lights, charging the phone, keep the computer and security running) but when you start running things like heaters / air con they can't cope. I have a UPS here that will keep my security running for 4 - 5 hours in a blackout and my PC running for a while as well but that's all I need from it. Sure, I could beef up the battery so it will run my PC for days but no real need. If worse came to worse I'd run some heavy duty wire from my car to it to charge it up but I don't see that happening.
WHAT IS THE PRICE OF A QUALITY BATTERY? AND DO I NEED PANELS ON MY ROOF TO CHARGE THEM ? I WOULD ONLY NEED A SYSTEM WHEN THERE IS A POWER OUTAGE NOT TO SELL POWER BACK TO THE POWER COMPANY SEPARATE FROM THE POWER GRID. IS THIS POSSIBLE?
The thing is we have an existing Natural gas powered standby generator that is paid for. When we purchased the Genny 11 years ago battery home Li-Ion battery systems weren't available & most of the battery backup systems we saw back then were mostly DIY based on deep cycle marine or other odd-ball batteries. Consequently we are wondering how we can integrate our Genny with our solar install (using IQ-8s & Enphase load controller.) We understand the benefits of backup batteries but they are still CRAZY expensive and few people can afford a large enough battery bank to power an AC unit in mid-summer even in low mode for a short while. For as frequently as it runs, the foot print of that generator is pretty small. When the big derecho came thorough two years ago our mains power was down for about 4 days - and we were really lucky. If we'd not had that standby generator we'd have been a world of hurt. When our Genny finally wears out then we'll consider a backup battery - hopefully they'll be a little less expensive then. For now, we really need to recover more of the sunk cost of that unit. I'm not real clear on how we'll interoperate the Generator with the solar installation but electricicans are good at figuring out those sorts of problems.
I have 600 watt solar, 6 230 amp hour batteries and generator. when the sun was out i ran fridge 2 tvs, wi fi , computer and did not discharge batteries. 6 hours without running generator. You need both. if you have a long outage and run out of fuel at least you have something to work with.
Does the solar panels have heater to melting the snow which cover the panels? Do you alway have the Sunshine if not the power output will reduce by 50%.
I live in a area where the sun doesn’t shine everyday. My solar system with battery for none sun time doesn’t get changed fully, the backup generator on my system kicks on when the batteries are not charged and sun is not shining
Batteries require maintenance, voltage between each battery needs to stay within .5 VDC or can damage one another requiring replacement and can cause polarity reversal, in areas of snow days, or cloudy day you need to make sure you have enough battery to at least 48 hr in a state that will melt snow in 2 days or less, longer snow day will need additional batteries
When I installed a battery backup system I questioned my decision. No more. For myself the biggest plus is the quietness and instant transition. But after a couple of hours you are looking for that generator. Now I have both.
@@fourfortyroadrunner6701 No this is not the case at all. My genset was installed last year (2021), the batteries were installed in 2013. I live in Central America and power failures are frequent. The batteries have carried me through every outage. However like in the US and Canada power outages going forward can be expected to get longer and longer in duration. The gen will be the thing that gets me through the longest outages. I have never used it to date in any outage. While neighbors run their noisy and annoying generators my system operates in silence. I never regretted the battery backup install and if you go generator only and want to silence it, you will spend a bundle on keeping it quiet. This is a consideration most do not think about. The other feature of a battery system people don't think about is instant "on" The brain in the inverter transfers power instantly. I do not even realize the power has gone out. Only when I look out and see candles burning in outer houses. Yes some generators switch on automatically but I don't have to worry about whether or not it started ( choke etc). The gen set was an afterthought and perhaps overkill but I would never ever get rid of the battery system. Mtce. is checking battery levels once a month, no moving parts and no noise. If you have a lot of heavy loads in your house your decision might be different but I power a fridge, lights, tv, internet and an intermittent water pump, and no AC so I am good for 2 to 3 hours.
This is a poor attempt at trying to sell backup batteries by disparaging Gensets. I would love to see my neighbor with quiet batteries lasting a week or more.
I have had customers that have crunched the numbers and bought my system. I think a detailed calculation is required to really get the right answer here. Take into account the warranty details on a genset with maintenance and you begin to see the issue.
I think this is a biased review by a guy who normally produces good videos on solar. I’m a solar guy and gave it installed, but think the back-up propane powered generator producing 100-150 Amps beats the Tesla Powerwall in installation cost, will run at 1800 rpm at about 60-65 decibels, will run as long as you have a fuel source, and with maintenance and periodic cycling will last 20 years. If the line power goes out and depletes my 3 Powerwalls costing $36,000, my back-up propane generator costing maybe $25,000 in the same scenario will run through my 1,000 gallon propane tank at a ray of about 5 gph equivalent. I’m having a hard time with the Powerwall working in this situation. Then you need to take into account what caused the outage, normally a storm. I wish the Powerwall was more affordable and stayed useful longer, then that choice has merit in my situation.
$30,000+ so the lights won't flicker???? PASS! I've watched plenty of solar panel videos. There absolutely IS maintenance involved. This is ridiculousness.
I went a week with out electric after a hurricane, the next month we got a back up generator (22kw) piped to the home natgas. I’ll run out of power when Oklahoma runs out of gas now. Lost power once since, I didn’t care how loud it was my AC was cranking out ice cold air. Worth every nickel and come with a 10 year warranty.
I was recently quoted (via text, most likely an AI/robot) about $3,500 from Powerhome for a so called efficiency efficient package. A $2,000 stimulus from government was mentioned but do not know if it comes off the top or not. Yet, what I read on the web on such systems means the cost is up to ten times as much. What should I believe?
It’s nice to have solar power with battery banks used as a ups system. But that’s Just until my generator kick in 😊. He is not making sense on this matter.
I'm trying to do an analysis to see what is better. How much does the fuel cost for the generator? I'm not bashing generators. I really am looking at both types to get a good total cost of each. I have an all electric house. No gas or propane lines here. So, I'd need a tank of some sort. That's why I'm trying to figure fuel costs. I'm assuming I'd need to fill that tank up. Having a huge tank of flamable fuel does concern me. And it probably would for my neighbors.
You can always bury the propane tank, life expectancy is 20-30 years in the ground. Considering your house is all electric and would need a pretty large tank to run a large (20 kW or larger) generator for an extended power outage, it's something worth considering.
That's a good questions, and it depends on the battery technology. Lithium-Ion batteries like the Tesla Powerwall 2 or Generac PWRcell have an estimate life of 12-15 years. While others like Sonnen have an estimated life of 42-years.
Yes, the Sonnen EcoLinx is using some of the best and safest battery technology on the market. It's not cheap by any means, but it has a 15,000 cycle warranty which 15,000/365-days = 41-years at that point the battery would only hold 80% of a charge minimum. Check it out: sonnenusa.com/en/sonnen-ecolinx/.
@@dalerolph my only question and/or point is those batteries you mentioned haven’t been round for 40 plus years meaning they can’t guarantee that length of life span. Absolute bollocks you read on the internet isn’t always the truth my friend.
These systems are tested in labs simulating decades of energy usage over the course of just a couple days. They're charged and discharged over and over on smaller scale and the scientists and engineers are able to calculate how long a battery will last. The battery technology doesn't need to be around for 40-years to know if it'll hold 80% of a charge by that time. How long does a generator last with regular maintenance? Almost all combustable engines need to be rebuilt at some point or another, we figured that out on day one of the Ford Model T.
Let’s say your power goes out for a week due to a damaging weather event and there is a lot of cloud cover. Let’s also say you want to run your HVAC during the outage, as well as your washer, your electric dryer, and everything else in your home. How long will your Power Wall last? Will it run the central air that whole time? Will it run it at all? My 24kw Generac standby natural gas generator will run indefinitely, power everything, and costs less than a backup battery system. Yes, you can hear it running in the background if you are standing near a window where it is installed. Music to my ears. Yes, there are emissions. They are TEMPORARY during an emergency. Living here in Ohio the choice is not even close.
I need something just the run the heater..I don’t care about lights or food in the fridge or tv…I have natural gas heating but need electricity just for the fan. Any ideas?
Did you come to a decision? Could buy a 12v 100ah lifepo4 battery and a 1000w pure sinewave inverter, fuse, 100a switch, tools and make one up yourself, or get an all-in-one like a Bluetti 'power station', plus a small generator ~$200 to charge it up if needs be.
The title should read “Solar and Batteries” because half the advantages you’re talking about rely on the battery being connected to solar for there to be an advantage such as in the case of a multi-day outage. I do like the idea of a battery and inverter as a UPS for the shorter outages but unless you go all the way with a big enough solar array for Canadian winters I don’t see a real alternative to having a generator with a big fuel tank for the situation I’m in... Eventually solar would be nice so the generator can be used less, but we already have the backup generator installed, so spending lots on solar isn’t in the budget just yet, but I would probably consider adding a battery first, not replacing.
There Is A Place For Whole House Battery Backup Systems But Here In Texas I Believe Most Suburban/Rural Homeowners Will Benefit More From A Natural Gas Or Propane Whole House Generator. Power Outages After A Major Storm Can Last Several Days Longer Than A Battery Backup System With Solar Panels Can Last.
Only way this is even close to justifiable is if you’re in a earthquake prone area ! Other than that, generator is the way to go! Neighbors aren’t bothered by the noise .. just jealous if they don’t have one lol
It's a bit deceptive to title this Battery Backup and not mention the 100s for square feet of solar panels needed to equal the output of a generator(which I noticed outputs of both systems weren't discussed). Especially when the cost of a generator is mentioned, but not the cost of the panels. Power outage for a week plus in overcast/snowy conditions, one system has a clear advantage over the other. Item 6, utilities cutting power was something I hadn't thought of for my area. Thank you for your take on the subject.
Honda generators are quiet, much more so than my Briggs Stratton. Propane hydronic furnace heats whole house and water with only one 15 amp circuit measured at 2.8 amp x120 v= 336watts. Block ice from your chest freezer will almost eliminate any need to power your refrigerator. Propane fireplaces require no electricity. DeWalt rechargeable battery flashlights or similar will provide all needed lights...
I have a 6kw solar grid tied system in the Philippines. I had the option of having it backed up with batteries or a generator. I went with a 20kVA single phase 220 volts 60 hz power plus sound proof digital controller generator with an ATS. Battery technology is not to the point where I can power all my appliances without any issues when there is a black out. With my generator I can power everything for many hours until the grid comes back online. Maybe in the future battery technology will get there but right now the back up to my solar grid tied system is my generator and I’ve never had a problem with it. Here in Philippines blackouts/brownouts are common, with my solar system I save money where my electricity bill and I have 100% back up with my generator
Are we going to ignore the reason most people have generators, it’s for when we run out of power for a week or two….. how many batteries does that take to run the AC/heater , all appliances indefinitely
Batteries are better than generators because they are much more profitable for Solar Installation companies. Why would so many companies be jumping into the battery category if not profitable?
All these things are true, but after getting a solar system installed and hoping/planning for battery backup the Enphase system was going to cost me 20-40,000 USD for 11-22KW capacity (and that was just the hardware, installation extra). At least in Florida when we need power due to storm outage the solar production will be low and so battery needs are higher. It’s just cost prohibitive vs. a $10-15,000 generator install that will run forever. Yes I hate the noise, yes I hate the delay and everything you mention but unless you have net metering savings (which we don’t have here) they are still just soooo expensive, sadly. I’m hoping for the future. Great video and I’m not trying to be Debbie downer here but we must be realistic, only so much cash in the savings account.
Batteries will come down in price as the technology evolves and the demand increases. We too hope Enphase adjusts their approach on pricing as we find it pretty steep when compared to alternative AC coupled solutions like the sonnen. We love their ecosystem but the can do better.
Pacific Sun Tech ballpark difference in price compared with Sonnen? Still would love solar battery but I’ve got maybe 25k absolute tops to spend. I’m in Fl or I definitely would be calling you.
Just ordered a 18kw Generac and am excited to have the protection for my home. I have no idea where I would find space enough for battery banks, inverters, etc. Sorry but your attempt to pull customers to battery backup needs more work and better offers. Let the noise begin......I cannot wait.
Imma tear this up. 1. 50-70 dB is NOT loud 2. Batteries are NOT clean. They are made with heavy metals MINED from the ground. 3. A battery bank with enough reserve capacity will be large. Dependent on your battery chemistry, of course. 4. Clocks need to be reset? Oh the humanity! Unnecessary stress? Come on! 5. Batteries are not infallible. They do have a lifespan. So do the other electronics required. Since he mentioned Tesla. One of their battery packs is $16k. Depending on the battery chemistry, you may have hazardous chemicals like sulfuric acid. Lithium polymer batteries can catch fire if overcharged or over discharged. If you pay someone to look inspect your generator you are wasting money. 6. He is right about natural gas powered gens in earthquake zones. They aren't a viable option. 7. Overcast/rainy day? Night? Low charge or no rate. Run your HVAC or dryer and watch your power drain. 8. Look into the startup cost of solar/wind/battery systems. The return on investment can be the lifespan of your solar panel. Then you need a new panel which puts you at square 1. 9. Some states, like Florida, mandate that you are connected to the grid for a property to be habitable. 10. Again, look to my point 8. Startup costs and lifespan. Now, I'm not saying that this is dumb or not needed. But, rather you need to evaluate you needs or be realistic about the costs and infrastructure required.
Batteries on solar are great if the solar can recharge them after they deplete in a extended outage, but no one tells you that the solar DOES NOT GENERATE when power is out!
I live in Florida also considering what were going through with the virus and the fact that hurricane season coming I'm extra worried this year. Wondering if there really is any practical alternative solar battery back up solution to a generator ?
@@Dead_Aim556 I give up there really is no realistic reasonably priced solution at this point in time that I can see. If we get hit but a bad hurricane I"ll stay in some hotel till its all over thats my solution
Let's not forget if you do lose power for the night, your batteries will never fully recharge for the night coming. Solar is good, battery backup is good for a few hours.
Batteries alone are still not even close to providing a relatively economical long-term (3-5 days) whole-house backup. You’d need a full solar array and a heavy supply of batteries (3-5 powerwalls) to get you through off hours, essentially something capable of being completely off grid. So, what? Close to 80-100k vs 10k? Not to mention, a limited-use Generac, regularly serviced, would last decades. I would LOVE to have a non-gas solar/battery setup, but energy storage is just too expensive at the scale needed unless you’re in a tiny house.
Natural gas generators are the only practical solution for people in certain areas where a power outage can Easily last 8 days or more.....and solar does not work if the roof gets damaged....so.....this is Not practical for lots of people...
The cost of solar and batteries installed for the average home: $45,000+. A generator $4000 + either propane or Natural gas. Incentives will only offset taxes, so if you don't pay much in taxes, you get no incentive. The sound with the lid closed is about a vacuum clean noise and can barely be heard inside. If you have the money, go for batteries, otherwise go for what is affordable. The generator will last a lifetime if maintained (oil change and filter every year), but batteries need to be replaced every 10 years or so.
50dB is very OK. The off gas from a generator dissipates into the air, collects with other stuff transforms into part of the recycle process. NO PROBLEM.
This sounds very much like the AC and DC discussion between Edison, Westinghouse and Tesla. Edison lost mainly at first because of the cost. Westinghouse won because of the practicality. There are some flaws in your argument but the big one is cost. I am sure you will win in time but not now.
Pricing for batteries are coming down quick and the technology is really moving in a positive way. I don't think it'll be too much longer before a battery backup and generator are closer to the same cost.
Dan, assuming you have about a 2000 square-foot house and you’re able to get by with minimal use (in other words you totally stop using your oven, clothes dryer, hair dryers, things like that). you can probably get by with $3000-4000 worth of LiFePO4 batteries per day. Of course if you have sunlight and a few panels to help recharge them, you can go a lot further. But it takes some doing to only pay a reasonable price, there’s absolutely NO contractors involved. DIY. See Will Prowse on UA-cam for tons of ideas and info.
Purchased this ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y after researching several brands.Reasons for picking this one was, dual fuel, I don't have to carry gasoline and stink up my truck bed!Propane is so much cleaner.Quiet 62 db, won't piss off neighboring campers!Less than 100 lbs, can lift in to truck bed.I can run my 30 foot Transcend 261BH, AC among other appliances.
When my gas line generator kicked in they weren't mad at the noise - just jealous that my house was still glowing.
One of the advantages of going with a battery is that it doesn't attract attention from would be looters or vandals. Pros and cons.
@@seinfan9 man must suck being in a neighborhood like that good thing all the neighbors around here are cool ppl
I have an old saying you loot we shoot
@@seinfan9 How long is your battery going to last one day if that
I'm sure mine were during the Texas arctic blast. While they were sitting in their car to keep warm, it was business as usual here.
I'll choose batteries over my generator as soon as I win the powerball lottary.
😂🤣😂🤣😂 This is true !
@PatienceZero So true ,these batteries are unpredictable as to exactly when they give up ( some last longer and some much sooner )
@@AudiophileTommy that’s why it comes with a 15 year warranty.
@PatienceZero ever hear of LifePO4 batteries?? If used solely as backup power, they’ll last a lifetime! Even if used in an off-grid situation with solar and cycle every day, they’ll last 15-20 years! You should do more research.
In a nutshell 😂
*Great **Generater.Systems** so far. We have the same brand just a little less power. This one is so much quieter then our first one. Great buy*
Had to laugh when I read the comment left by Larry Royovitx saying he'd have to win the lottery to got the battery route. He's not far off, I have a large house. I went out for quotes. If I get the largest air cooled Generac standby generator they offer (i.e. 24K) with a turn key installation, all electrical cableing and gas trenched and buried which includes a 75 foot run of gas line and installing a 200amp transfer switch... the total bill was $12,500. Certainly not inexpensive! BUT... the best price I got to power my home using inverters and batteries would require I win the lottery. 48 kW of power inverters, 30 kW of solar panels and a 50 kW generator would provide me with 200 kWh's of energy storage. Very nice indeed... however the price tag was a little over $150,000. I went with the 24k generator.
except you're not taking into consideration the long term fuel expense and maintenance. Don't know where you live, but if you live near a hurricane area, the power outage can last for several weeks. To power your house for that length of time would cost thousands in fuel cost. Plus if you don't maintain the generator correctly, it may not start when you need it. Not sure why you might need 30kw of solar panels, but my house which has 2 AC units and pool heater will be completely covered with grid live or off grid with an 18.4 kw solar system with 30kw battery system with micro inverters for roughly 80k and my monthly cost is the same as my current bill with the added peace of mind knowing that I have uninterrupted power.
@@GioSinatraFan wouldn’t you have to rely on sunny days for your solar panels? no sun, no power…i’d use a little of both
Can’t imagine what kind of generator that’s 24k and only $12 ,500 installed. . A 24k Generator alone costs more than that. Maybe you mistyped.
@@Imwright720 You might be thinking of models from Generacs "liquid cooled" lineup. Generacs liquid cooled generators are about twice the price of their air cooled kw equivalent models but the benefit is they are very quiet by comparison and tend have a longer lifespan. I purchased the 24kw "air cooled" installed for $12.5 . Currently Generacs closest to my 24kw from their "liquid cooled" lineup would be their 25Kw RG02515 Protector Series with a price tag $11,300 "without" installation... as opposed to their 24K air cooled unit which starts around $6300 "without" installation.
@@eltonnoway7864 thank you. I did not know that. Air cooled is all I need especially since I rarely use it.
In the most recent power outage, I was without power for 24 straight hours. In order to run my 3 ton hvac, well pump, refrigerators, and septic system takes 14kw. I'm NOT running the 4ton hack, or hot water heater. There is no battery system for under 10k that will meet the need.
Facts
During Sandy, we lost power for three weeks before they replaced the power pole across the street that got taken out by a falling tree. Battery wouldn’t have helped.
Well. I have a Grid tied 10.5KW. Solar Panel system. Backup 2 battery system was 20,000 plus 4,500 INSTALL fee for total 24,500.00 plus solar @14500.00 solar is 39,000.00 US $ generac 22kw $7,500 installed 15 seconds from power failure time.
You can get a 28kwh top quality lifepo4 battery bank and a Sol-ark 12k with 20 350 watt panels for about 25k. Easy to install yourself. It will reduce your power bill and provide backup. No maintenance, higher reliability, longer lasting, no fuel costs. Have you seen the maintenance and repair bills on those generacs? Many power companies are providing incentives for these types of battery backups and even letting you sell back power at critical times at a good rate.
@@timburke3096$25k vs $7500
I am all for different alternatives for back up power systems but the reality is that cost of a (battery specific) system that can actually handle an outage for just a few days (let alone weeks) worth of a power that is needed to maintain a home due to a storm does not make sense financially. 2000-4000 thousand for a stand alone natural gas or propane generator vs a Tesla wall / equivalent system which on average will run 30 to 60 thousand is an easy choice IMHO. Even if you factor in all available rebates/tax credits I would think someone that is objectively looking at this problem would choose either a natural gas or propane system unless money is not a real factor in the equation. Please don't get me wrong as I would absolutely prefer a system that was silent and that did not emit any hydrocarbons but again when comparing the pros and cons objectively I think most would lean towards a conventional generator system.
@@levelup843 There is no way in the world a battery solution with solar will keep up with anything but the tiniest of homes in an area where you need AC. If you live in an area where temperatures get above 80 degrees you can't make a battery solution that will be self sufficient and run everything in the home. It's just not possible, so for the rest of the country that doesn't live in a tiny house in a permanent 70 degree climate (which is about 92% of us), it's not a solution even worth considering. Battery is great as a very short term bridge between using a generator and getting power back in a 1-2 hour outage. I live in an area that has no earthquakes and an unlimited supply of natural gas, and temperatures often over 105 degrees for at least 1/2 the year, so solar is impractical, cannot keep the house running more than a few hours, and ridiculously expensive if you need the level of power we do. Our grid is old, and the local power company ignores it and hardly ever upgrades or does maintenance so we are guaranteed anywhere from 5-15 days a year with no power, maybe even more in tornado season. A natural gas generator is our only option of staying alive when we get a week long outage and the temps are 100+. Also what happens when you get 5 days of rain or overcast sweltering conditions? Your battery solution charges at a third of it's normal rate due to the overcast and of course not at all at night, but your consumption doesn't change..however the natural gas generator doesnt care if it's cloudy or not, its a constant KW all day every day, except for the hour or so to do maintenance every 3-4 days of use. Well worth it...
I'm not bashing battery power options, if you can get away with just battery by all means rock on, but they are not for everyone and people that live in specific areas and climate types need to be very careful committing to them, they just don't work without a generator to rechange them in many cases and locations due to a variety of factors. I have a neighbor who tried a exclusive battery and solar panel solution, and he wound up scrapping it for a NG generator after only a couple of miserable summers where it failed him and his family. Now it's supplemental power, which is really cool, but it could never work as exclusive.
The title is misleading, you’re talking about solar with power bank and a generator! Waste of time !
So what happens in snow storms when your commercial power is out....your solar panels are covered in snow (on your roof) and your batteries are dying?
@Uranium_Isotope Got natural gas that does not need me to store and works during power outage.
I fixed it for you.
So what happens in snow storms when your commercial power is out....your solar panels are covered in snow (on your roof) and your batteries are dying, and the wind turbines are frozen solid, like in Texas.
Batteries are nice to run your TV and computer, but cannot run a heater for a long duration of time.
What happens when you have no gas supply? You are hosed. You can always move the snow off the panels, panels are widely popular in very cold places like Norway
I climb up my slippery ladder, freezing my a$$ off, with my roof rake and clear those suckers ;) ... then I go inside and stoke up my wood stove!
Hurricane rita, power was out for 21 days. Hurricane ike, 7 days. Harvey, 4 days. Currently in day number 4 without power due to winter storm uri.
A decent battery backup system would likely cost me around $50k, and may give me 2 days of heating or cooling if I'm lucky. $65 in gasoline has lasted 4 days and I still have enough to power me through tomorrow night.
If you're scared of the dark and need a night light to get to the bathroom, go with battery. If you your family's life depends on it, stick with what works.
Imagine my power off for 2-4 days. How much would I have to spend for batteries to keep my home operating during that time?
Heaps. Generators are still the more cost efficient way to run your home.
@@ryanfoster6514 Been on generator power now for 14 days (Hurricane Ida ) and probably 7-12 more days wait on power restoration at 25.00 a day on fuel plus expense of getting gas for generator. Does not seem to cost efficient to me
@@michaelmccormick3077 do you have an idea how many batteries you’ll need in your case? At least $130,000 in batteries alone, not to mention solar panels, which might get blown away in the hurricane.
@@nelauren I think your pricing is a little high, it’s assuming you’re going with top dollar scamy contractors.
$100k
I want to be that one neighbor with lights on in a blackout
I DON'T want to be that one neighbor with lights on in a blackout. Depending on how long the blackout lasts, you will make yourself a target? No thanks.
@@rpbajb keep the lights off and the fridge running
@@BY-fd7bi Well... It's not like your solar ARRAY isn't visible from your rooftop assuming your roof-type is a cape. Assuming you didn't go with the silent diesel generator................ LOL.
I'm that guy. For the last 10+ years I had a large AGM battery bank transfer switches and inverters. A few years ago when we lost power in the evening for 8 hours, I lined up my system and turned on my outside lights, opened my windows, vacuumed my upstairs bedroom, then put War of the Worlds on the big screen and turned up the surround sound. Meanwhile, the neighbor had candles lit. Its a safe upscale neighborhood and nobody has a clue about these things. Its cool to look down the canyon and not see any lights on for a mile.
The next day the neighbor lady asked why I had power and no generator sound. I told her that I was on Southern California Edison (400 miles away) and she was on PG&E.
I am more careful these days and don't show off. I even have rolls of heavy aluminum foil to black out windows as needed for long term outages. But at Thanksgiving in 2019, we lost power for 9 hours after dark when the first rains came and a car took out a power pole. I was probably the only person for miles who cooked a turkey on batteries. The new second battery bank is lithium LiFeP04 and it was a great field test. They did very well.
@@rpbajb With a whole neighborhood of darkness to target, you can be sure that the house with the lights ON is the house that the bad guys will avoid. No lights mean the bad guys are less likely to be seen and if they are seen, it means a homeowner will be less likely to shoot, since he cannot positively identify the target as friend or foe. The bad guys love darkness and hate lights. That's why houses near street lights are burglarized far less often than houses several houses away from a street light. If you're worried about burglars, then you definitely want to be the one guy in the neighborhood with lights on, in a blackout.
A generator will easily outperform solar with a powerbank.
What is a Power Bank ?
@@davehelder9104 isn't it obvious? it's a bank of power, ie a set of batteries
Why would a generator burning gasoline or diesel outperform a powerbank? Both are just stored local energy sources.
@@markhathaway9456 cost to power output: generator will always outperform, at least for now
@@tmpEngine but that depends on your definition of outperform
Yes, these are reasons batteries might be preferable but this guy presents them as if they are overwhelming better choices when they aren’t. There are plus and minuses for both batteries and generators and cost is a factor. Many people with batteries rely on generators to recharge batteries during long outages when solar isn’t available. Batteries are a good choice for some and generators are better for others.
So, 2x Tesla Powerwall 2 with installation is around $20K, giving you a total capacity of around 27kWh. This will power your home for around 6-8hrs, even less in extreme conditions (freeze or high heat).
By comparison, $10K gets you a 14kWh+ generator, installed, which will power your home indefinitely.
This is not even apples to oranges. One is a toy for the rich, other is a viable backup solution.
Check out my system, ask for an estimate. I typically sell Sol-Ark units with a 28kwh battery bank. With 20 panels its about 25k. Can install 40 panels. Lifepo4 batteries last a lot longer, you can plug in a $800 generator and you have a backup system that will offset your power bill last much longer and has no maintenance.
thank you for the honesty
I agree with the base price.
But, how much does the fuel cost for the generator?
I'm not bashing generators. I really am looking at both types to get a good total cost of each.
I have an all electric house. No gas or propane lines here. So, I'd need a tank of some sort. That's why I'm trying to figure fuel costs. I'm assuming I'd need to fill that tank up.
Fuel cost would vary depending on year and location.
If you have high capital and live in a place where it does not snow, I generally* suggest solar with battery.
If you live in a snowy, tear your roof, any hail commin down. Get a generator.
Sizing also play into the cost. I'd say pick the smaller generator and run it intermitently. Eco mode in generators are prolong operation, but severely lessen the total power generated per fuel used.
@@christopherort2889 Here in Louisiana I can run my whole home 24kw Natural Gas generator at a cost of about 200$ for the NG for 7 days. That's one night in a hotel cost...not to mention the value of saving all my frozen food and meat...etc. That is with everything i need running, business as usual home operation. 200$ to not be displaced for a week and lose all my food? Yeah not even a question..EASILY worth it and affordable.
I have a neighbor who went battery bank/solar about 2 years ago and during our last outage that lasted 5 days...he left on day 2 to find a hotel. His batteries were totally drained and the panels were charging at a deficit that he couldn't ever catch up to, even with everything off. Temps were over 100 in his house after the batteries gave out. I wound up taking his food for him and putting it into my nice and cold mud room fridge till he and his wife came back. First thing he did when the power came back on, he installed a NG generator to keep the batteries running......he was not a happy camper with the company that overstated the battery bank capability and panels when they sold him on it......
If I had the money I personally like Generac's ability to have the generator be able to charge the batteries when solar is not enough. Pacific Sun Tech is in S. California. They may get snow once every 3-5 years and the chances of that snow covering their solar panels for more than a day (unless up in Big Bear) is slim to none. In the rest of the country (and now Texas) it's sometimes more than a week before solar panels are uncovered. Having a generator to supplement when solar fails is the trifecta in energy independence. Anyone have a Spare $85,000 sitting around that I can use?
Hey there! I totally get where you're coming from, it's important to have a backup plan when relying on solar power. If you're looking for an alternative to generators, I'd recommend checking out the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series. It's a versatile powerhouse with a massive capacity, fast recharging, and comprehensive protections. Plus, it's built tough and even waterproof! Definitely worth considering for outdoor enthusiasts like us. Cheers!
We're, presently, testing these battery operated generators. Our findings are that the batteries are still not adequate for the duration of emergencies, unless you have them hooked-up to solar cells to recharge them. Gas generators meet those needs, but are dangerous to operate for people who do not know safety instructions. But no, battery generators are NOT there yet.
What you failed to disclose is the difference in price, 899.00 for a generator and 60,000 for the solar battery setup. Not to mention if the sun doesn’t shine for 2 days you will need to buy a generator anyway.
Thanks…this is what I was looking for….generator for me.
This is completely bias in favor of home batteries. I’d love to have a battery scenario set up in my house but I’d have to have roof solar panels installed but still if a hurricane passes by, it won’t be certain to have sun for days so where will the batteries get recharged from. Also, I’d need at least 3 batteries installed in order to run most of the stuff in the house mainly A/C system, but they won’t last long either. It is definitely not the best solution for now. Maybe when they get cheaper in the future.
And a gas generator doesn’t only get installed via city gas supply. There are gas tanks (like 500 gallon tanks) that get buried underground and connected to the generator. There are all kind of options out there and you just need to do your research and see what best applies to your needs.
Btw, nowadays standby gas generators are not that noisy like the one on the video. That must’ve had some type of issue to make that noise.
Also...solar panels on a roof that gets damaged will do no good...different solutions are good for different places...not so good for other places
It sounds like you are perfectly happy with the idea of a battery system, as the large tanks of gas are just the same, but you would prefer not to be connected to uncertain gas for uncertain times. Keep the regular electric sources, but also charge up your backup battery.
If electric companies choose a variety of ways to get energy they would be more reliable than having only 1 source. How do you feel about a hybrid-source system with home battery for emergencies and peak-use hours?
Having just survived Hurricane Ida with little roof damage and no damage to my solar panels, I'd be more than interested in adding battery backup. I live in an area that was ground zero for Ida. The eye of the storm parked itself over my town for 6 hours. We were flooded and many neighbors in the older areas suffered tremendous roof damage. I was really concerned with my panels acting as sails in the 120+ MPH winds but thanks to hurricane clips, my roof and my panels remained largely intact.
With respect to lack of sunshine after a hurricane, keep in mind that a hurricane is a low pressure system that spins in a counter-clockwise direction. Once a hurricane has passed, there is usually clear skies for the next few days thanks to the high pressure that settles in behind a storm. After Ida passed through, there were nothing but high temperature and sunny skies. My only concern is how big the battery system is and where it would need to be installed. I would definitely want it elevated to protect from flood waters.
We had a bad winter a few years ago. Several weeks of very little solar generation. On the good side, natural gas never failed. Lots of frequency power outages. Only the generator was useful. We just need to make the choice based on our use case.
"it does quiet down when you close the lid" gosh these guys are sharp. Take it from someone dealing with the rolling blackouts in Texas...we'll be putting in a ng generator as fast as we can.
Bro I live in Houston and had a generac generator place months prior and it paid off during the historic winter, it powered my entire home, keeping my family at ease and comfortable. Had me singing, this little light of mine, am gone let it shine" to the whole neighborhood.
@@philliptorrea1166 exactly! I'm getting someone out to install one as soon as I can. Batteries are a joke, they would have been dead and useless by day 2...Genny is the only way to go.
@@jberry1979 I agree. I was looking at a couple of solar generators that are well known in the market, however, the downside is the units are inoperable below 32 degree weather. The arctic blast in Texas placed our temps in the low teens. A solar generator would have rendered me useless the second day I was out of power. I'm grateful I had my fireplace to keep me warm and cook my meals. I believe the Generac is a clear winner, but there's such a huge demand right now that they can't make them fast enough. Place our orders and pack our patience, I suppose.
@@Liz-lp3ms exactly. We got a quote and plan in place Saturday and got in line for an order should have ours installed by the end of April so we'll be ready for hurricane season.
Close the lid and the sound goes way down.
Batteries have to be replaced after so many years (expensive).
Your battery backup won't run your 3-5 ton air conditioner.
I understand love the neighbors but if my power goes out I’m not spending $30,000 on a battery back up generator are use my standby generator and if my neighbors don’t like it oh well when I’m in my house you can’t even hear it running and that’s that
Then never call the police when your neighbor is blasting music you don’t like. You wouldn’t want to be known as a hypocrite.
@@crosisofborg5524 The guy across the street was a member of Santana in the 1980's. He's a guitar instructor now in his 70's. When he lights up the air with his guitar, everyone loves it. I helped him rig his Honda eu3000i gen set.
@Abraham Ghannam when the power is out, and your "neighbors" don't like the noise from your generator... they also must like not having any power, AND ticking off the only neighbor that could help them a bit.
As far as noise goes, if its a real issue **for the generator owner** there's always honda gensets. Cost more, but are good reliable generators, that are much quieter.
@@crosisofborg5524 no worries, they won't be blasting music during a power outage since they don't have a generator. Also blasting music isn't a need. A generator during a blackout is... With that said, no real reason to be running a generator at night though.
@@crosisofborg5524 I’m a musician I never called the police to each their own there are some snobby neighbors though most of my neighbors are understanding
I can run dryer, oven, heat pump, plug in welder in garage. Batteries will not. Have you seen a lithium mine and it's destruction on the environment. Utility companies use backup batteries for there own system outages and they will deplete in first 24 hours of stand alone use. This may be good for southern California but not for midwest and northeast.
I'm late to this discussion, but I haven't seen ppl talk about off-grid systems. A few companies are now making all-in-one solar power stations that can supply a house. In most of the Western parts of the US, this is a viable option that will continuously provide power. If you have a secondary backup with a gas/diesel generator, don't use it to power your house, running it 24/7, use it to recharge your battery system so that your generator is only running for a few hours, thus saving fuel. Many fully charged solar house systems can provide power to the house for a few days if you're careful with your energy use. And off-grid systems can cost as low as $5k, not the $30k or $40k or more that grid-tide systems cost.
$5K for a solar solution? What are you powering, a tool shed??? One powerwall ALONE is going to cost you more than $5K!
It is laughable how people are still trying to equate the use case and performance of generators and batteries. Generators turn a continuous supply of energy into electricity enough to power the items in your home as long as that source is supplying energy. Batteries, even with solar input are simply storage that will eventually drain to the point where it is unusable. Then they require recharging to be of use. What this guy and others are saying is completely equivalent to "All of you with gas powered cars, ditch your alternator and run on the battery alone". You car will certainly run for a short period, but will then die. These people selling batteries are completely misleading people and they count on dumb consumers to not understand the differences in technologies.
Need a battery pack the size of. your garage to provide the duration of power of the generator.
exactly, and the batteries will cost more than the generator. And you still need to spend much more on a system to charge them. Let alone replacing them every few years.
Thanks for your time and effort with the video. Couple of questions for you: 1) How much does it cost to install a solar panel / battery backup system capable of powering a house? 2) Will a battery system power a central air conditioning system / heat pump and for how many hours straight? 3) Will solar panels work well in a week of rain or snow? 4) What is the life expectancy of the type of batteries needed? 5) How much would it cost to replace a house battery system at the end of it's life expectancy? Thanks again for the video.
Excellent questions;Did anyone specifically the person who uploaded the video ever respond to answer your ?'s?
Ssshhhhhhhhhhhhh . . .
This video has a lot of misinformation.
The way a battery works is basically two poles, an anode, and a cathode. electrons move back and forth from these poles as the batteries are charged and discharged.
Electrons move from anode to cathode when discharged. Then move back when charged.
However, not all come back. As we charge and discharge the battery, more and more never come back to the anode.
Each time this occurs is considered a battery cycle. Therefore all batteries have a limited amount of cycles.
A typical 18650 battery used alone can have about 500 cycles before it barely holds a charge to be viable.
A Tesla/Panasonic-developed 21700 architecture can do maybe 1000 cycles.
So depending on the size of your battery setup or power wall. it can last from 5 to 15 max 20 years with current technology.
Long story short, #7 Batteries run indefinitely is not true.
Even if a battery is not used, it only has a stand-alone shelf life of 8 years before it begins to break down or if not stored correctly.
He didn’t mention the price and the life expectancy of the battery’s and solar panels. It’s too expensive and generators are still the way to go. Maybe in the future if they can get the prices down
Not if the prices of gasoline goes up!! As they are right now!!
I heard tesla battery can only run a full day.
Texas just went 5 days without power. The Generator would of kept the house warm.
Batteries degrade after time, some can explode. If the battery dies you can’t recharge it. The POWER IS OUT ! If I’m running low of propane, I just call for more before my generator runs out of fuel. I have no confidence in batteries plus it could damage your appliances if your battery watts are too low for your home.
Many people in Texas, who had battery and solar combo systems, found themselves without power last week, when solar panels were covered with snow for days and the batteries could not be recharged. Then the snow melted, but there were thunderstorms for a few more days, that prevented the batteries from reaching a workable charge. By contrast, my noisy generator just kept pushing power into my home, while many Texans waited days for all those frozen windmills to be de-iced, so they could get power back. (They were also waiting for snow to be scraped off of solar arrays.) Also, batteries are less eco-friendly than natural gas or propane, because if you have enough batteries to power your home, it means you have a boat load of heavy metals to dispose of, every time the batteries reach end-of-life. There is no easy way to dispose of metals like lithium or lead and recycling them is very expensive. Thanks anyway, but I'll stick with natural gas and a little noise that will last the entire length of a days-long outage, such as we see with hurricanes, on the gulf coast and more recently with a freak snow storm.
I'll give you 'A' for chaos theory, but let's face it, there's a LOT of hot air coming out of Texas lately (politically, that is). ;)
@@marriedwithchildren-familylife your response is a non-response. It is a type of logical fallacy called a psychogenetic fallacy or "Bulverism". If you are not aware of that term, it means that the debater begins by assuming bias and then, based on that "perceived" bias and without offering any argument (let alone, proof), the debater dismisses the arguments that he cannot refute. Bulverism is typically a tactic of a desperate debater, who has no logical arguments or proof, to support his position. Just sayin…
@@allegiancebooks1201 hmmm a war of words.... lmao, too bad you came unarmed. I can support the 'HELL' out of my position if I wanted to, however it's useless to argue against self-serving greed. 'You', obviously did not appreciate a little humor so you took to insults. Your post was nothing more than sarcasm and innuendo , in case you are not familiar with the terms, are:
sar·casm
/ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
"his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment"
AND
innuendo:
in·nu·en·do
/ˌinyəˈwendō/
Learn to pronounce
noun
an allusive or oblique remark or hint, typically a suggestive or disparaging one.
"she's always making sly innuendoes".
You gave no proof, reasonable argument or statement without your own perceived bias. You brag about your private generator, yet laugh at those who relied on other sources of power. It was NOT their fault that the TEXAS power grid failed but continued to be charged. People froze to death, man! Just saying....
@@marriedwithchildren-familylife the three key phrases in your comment came in the beginning, when you said, "war of words.... lmao, too bad you came unarmed", which is known in debating circles as, "ad hominem" (a personal attack, meant to deflect attention from the fact that the debater has no valid counter), when you said, "IF I wanted to" [emphasis added], which debaters call, "ipse dixit" (a claim or assertion that is presented as true without support), and when you said, "it's useless to argue against self-serving greed", which goes back to bulverism (you argue that it is unnecessary to present valid proof, because of an assumed bias), which appears to be one of your favorite go-to dodges. As mentioned above, bulverism is most often used as cover for the fact that the debater has no valid counter to the statement(s) he wishes to refute. For example, both political parties often use bulverism to discredit VALID ideas of the other side (i.e. "It can't be true, because President ______ said it and he's biased."). Bulverism is meant to convince the listener to ignore the fact that more than half of the time, the reason a person is "biased," is because he has done his homework and is probably right.
In fact, it can't be argued that most of the windmills in Texas did not become inoperative because of the snow and extreme cold, because that's exactly what happened and has been widely reported. It cannot be argued that when one part of a power generating grid fails, other parts of that grid don't have to take up the slack, which overloads those other parts of the grid, because that's what always happens. Even with protections against cascading, the overloading of remaining power systems forces controlled rolling blackouts. It can't be argued that solar cells were not inoperative, because they were not covered with inches of snow, because they were packed with so much snow that it would not slide off without physical help (just like snow packs on your slanted roof). We have more than a few homes in our subdivision, that have solar on their roofs and with the sole exception of one house with solar, all of them were dark for days during the Texas storm. That one exception had a portable gasoline generator running. Since that time, driving past three of those several homes, including the one that used the portable generator, I noticed they had installed a far more dependable whole-house generator. During the Texas snow storm, we lost almost all solar generating capability in Texas and most of the wind capability. As a percentage of each, we lost more than twice as much wind generating capability, as we did natural gas generating capability. Like it or not, natural gas is way more dependable, both on a large scale and for private home generating.
There are many reasons why I don't care for wind generation. But other than its lack of dependability, most of those concerns are minor (for example, how it destroys a beautiful landscape). OTOH, solar and batteries present far more serious issues. I used to run very large IT departments and in multiple cases, we had up-time requirements that required us to have multiple diesel generators and a whole room-full of banks of batteries to handle the load, for the few seconds it took for the generators to come up to speed. Every few years, those batteries had to be replaced and the cost was huge. Not only did we have to pay for new batteries, which was substantial, but we had to pay to have the old batteries carried off and recycled. In each case, since we were a business, those costs were budgeted costs that were necessarily passed on to our customers, as just another cost of doing business, in the form of higher prices. But the overriding factor is not the high price of batteries. It is the ecological damage that they cause. Most companies that use batteries pay to recycle them. Actually, I believe that in most states (if not all), companies can be heavily fined if they don't. But many homeowners just throw their old batteries in the garbage over a period of days, rather than pay the huge cost of recycling. That may be against the law in their state, but the chances of being caught is slim. With a natural gas generator, I don't have to decide if I want to break the law, because there is no reason for me to do so. The two backup batteries that power the house during generator startup are not expensive to recycle. In fact, most counties and large cities now have recycling centers that will take small quantities of such batteries, without charging. Moreover, since those intermediate batteries are only used for about five seconds at a time, they will last years longer than batteries that power the house for hours on end. Natural gas generators are just a far more economical and ecological solution than solar and batteries. They are also more dependable than wind turbines and they last for decades.
@@allegiancebooks1201 Windmills had nothing to do with Texas' power outages. You watch too much Fox News, lol.
For total redundancy, the answer is you need both.
Do you think you can do you videos in front of a battery like in the garage etc. The kitchen videos have me me skip your videos but your content is good.
We’ve been doing more content in the field recently and have a lot more coming! Thanks for the feedback
As a matter of fact it was in the dead of winter and the temperature was zero out and my neighbors heat was out I let him plug into my generator and to this day he’s thanking me because we were out for two days with subzero weather we slept good those two nights so usually you help out your neighbor I’m sure they’re not gonna mind when you turn on the heat
I live in florida,and I was without power for 7 day's. After that I installed a small D I Y with 4 ,100 watt RENOGY panels,a 40 amp charge controller charging my 8,six volt batteries giving me 1600 amp hours that supplies my 3000watt pure sinewave inverter.works great,supplies all my 120 volt needs.now I only have to run my generator for the well pump and any 240 appliances.saved me a lot of fuel.really pleased with the set up.
You´re right, there is not one "universal" solution. In my case, a small setup with solar, wind and a biogas powered generator would be more than enough, even though I´ve got grid power in the middle of nowhere in my mountain cabin in Venezuela.
1) The cost of my generator was a small fraction of what solar and batteries would cost.
2) My generator has lasted for more than a decade and probably has a few more decades of life left.
3) My generator requires very little annual maintenance (oil changes, etc.).
4) Batteries have to be replaced every few years, based on use and replacements are almost as expensive as the original install.
5) It is very expensive to recycle Batteries and in most states that is required by law.
6) Even recycling those heavy metal batteries leaves a much larger carbon footprint than my generator.
And recycling solar cells are even less climate friendly.
I think having both is a good idea. Batteries are good for low power devices (running lights, charging the phone, keep the computer and security running) but when you start running things like heaters / air con they can't cope.
I have a UPS here that will keep my security running for 4 - 5 hours in a blackout and my PC running for a while as well but that's all I need from it. Sure, I could beef up the battery so it will run my PC for days but no real need.
If worse came to worse I'd run some heavy duty wire from my car to it to charge it up but I don't see that happening.
WHAT IS THE PRICE OF A QUALITY BATTERY? AND DO I NEED PANELS ON MY ROOF TO CHARGE THEM ? I WOULD ONLY NEED A SYSTEM WHEN THERE IS A POWER OUTAGE NOT TO SELL POWER BACK TO THE POWER COMPANY SEPARATE FROM THE POWER GRID. IS THIS POSSIBLE?
The thing is we have an existing Natural gas powered standby generator that is paid for. When we purchased the Genny 11 years ago battery home Li-Ion battery systems weren't available & most of the battery backup systems we saw back then were mostly DIY based on deep cycle marine or other odd-ball batteries. Consequently we are wondering how we can integrate our Genny with our solar install (using IQ-8s & Enphase load controller.) We understand the benefits of backup batteries but they are still CRAZY expensive and few people can afford a large enough battery bank to power an AC unit in mid-summer even in low mode for a short while.
For as frequently as it runs, the foot print of that generator is pretty small. When the big derecho came thorough two years ago our mains power was down for about 4 days - and we were really lucky. If we'd not had that standby generator we'd have been a world of hurt.
When our Genny finally wears out then we'll consider a backup battery - hopefully they'll be a little less expensive then. For now, we really need to recover more of the sunk cost of that unit.
I'm not real clear on how we'll interoperate the Generator with the solar installation but electricicans are good at figuring out those sorts of problems.
I have 600 watt solar, 6 230 amp hour batteries and generator. when the sun was out i ran fridge 2 tvs, wi fi , computer and did not discharge batteries. 6 hours without running generator. You need both. if you have a long outage and run out of fuel at least you have something to work with.
Does the solar panels have heater to melting the snow which cover the panels? Do you alway have the Sunshine if not the power output will reduce by 50%.
I live in a area where the sun doesn’t shine everyday. My solar system with battery for none sun time doesn’t get changed fully, the backup generator on my system kicks on when the batteries are not charged and sun is not shining
Batteries require maintenance, voltage between each battery needs to stay within .5 VDC or can damage one another requiring replacement and can cause polarity reversal, in areas of snow days, or cloudy day you need to make sure you have enough battery to at least 48 hr in a state that will melt snow in 2 days or less, longer snow day will need additional batteries
Batteries has limitation the longer is 3 to 5 years but sometimes due to defects and wear and tear of the plates inside lasts only 1 to 2 years.
If you found this informative, may God have mercy on your soul... try running on batteries for days, to see what would happen if you need it the mos.t
When I installed a battery backup system I questioned my decision. No more. For myself the biggest plus is the quietness and instant transition. But after a couple of hours you are looking for that generator. Now I have both.
So what are saying is "I am an idiot. I bought into the battery thing, but kept my genset because it is the one THAT WORKS"
@@fourfortyroadrunner6701 No this is not the case at all. My genset was installed last year (2021), the batteries were installed in 2013. I live in Central America and power failures are frequent. The batteries have carried me through every outage. However like in the US and Canada power outages going forward can be expected to get longer and longer in duration. The gen will be the thing that gets me through the longest outages. I have never used it to date in any outage. While neighbors run their noisy and annoying generators my system operates in silence.
I never regretted the battery backup install and if you go generator only and want to silence it, you will spend a bundle on keeping it quiet. This is a consideration most do not think about.
The other feature of a battery system people don't think about is instant "on" The brain in the inverter transfers power instantly. I do not even realize the power has gone out. Only when I look out and see candles burning in outer houses.
Yes some generators switch on automatically but I don't have to worry about whether or not it started ( choke etc).
The gen set was an afterthought and perhaps overkill but I would never ever get rid of the battery system. Mtce. is checking battery levels once a month, no moving parts and no noise.
If you have a lot of heavy loads in your house your decision might be different but I power a fridge, lights, tv, internet and an intermittent water pump, and no AC so I am good for 2 to 3 hours.
hello
Good afternoon, is there a Battery System set up that provides back up power for the power outages with out any solar panels?
A generator will beat the brakes off a battery in one single day.
Solar + battery tho😁
No it doesn’t, it’s crap and dirty
you have to have something powering the battery to charge and that means solar or wind and they are not cheap and need maintained
This is a poor attempt at trying to sell backup batteries by disparaging Gensets. I would love to see my neighbor with quiet batteries lasting a week or more.
I have had customers that have crunched the numbers and bought my system. I think a detailed calculation is required to really get the right answer here. Take into account the warranty details on a genset with maintenance and you begin to see the issue.
Never apologize for that mustache my friend. Never.
I think this is a biased review by a guy who normally produces good videos on solar. I’m a solar guy and gave it installed, but think the back-up propane powered generator producing 100-150 Amps beats the Tesla Powerwall in installation cost, will run at 1800 rpm at about 60-65 decibels, will run as long as you have a fuel source, and with maintenance and periodic cycling will last 20 years. If the line power goes out and depletes my 3 Powerwalls costing $36,000, my back-up propane generator costing maybe $25,000 in the same scenario will run through my 1,000 gallon propane tank at a ray of about 5 gph equivalent. I’m having a hard time with the Powerwall working in this situation. Then you need to take into account what caused the outage, normally a storm. I wish the Powerwall was more affordable and stayed useful longer, then that choice has merit in my situation.
$30,000+ so the lights won't flicker????
PASS!
I've watched plenty of solar panel videos. There absolutely IS maintenance involved. This is ridiculousness.
I went a week with out electric after a hurricane, the next month we got a back up generator (22kw) piped to the home natgas. I’ll run out of power when Oklahoma runs out of gas now. Lost power once since, I didn’t care how loud it was my AC was cranking out ice cold air. Worth every nickel and come with a 10 year warranty.
Only a few minutes into the video this guy disqualified himself by unfair evaluations and well, thinking we are stupid.
Made it to number 2 and had stop. ✌🏽
I am having a hard time finding the "BATTERIES ARE CHEAPER" section.
if your going to use a teleprompter, make sure your remote is not visible, they clicking every three or less seconds it too distracting
Unless if your battery is as efficient as fuel cells or nuclear reactor, you still need some kind of combustion to generate electricity...
Fortunately we have a giant fusion reactor that sends energy towards earth everyday AKA the sun
Yeah but that fusion reactor is not 24 hours (in most countries) and millions of miles away.
I was recently quoted (via text, most likely an AI/robot) about $3,500 from Powerhome for a so called efficiency efficient package. A $2,000 stimulus from government was mentioned but do not know if it comes off the top or not. Yet, what I read on the web on such systems means the cost is up to ten times as much. What should I believe?
So how long will battery last vs a propane generator... I mean that is a huge win for the gas generator. Its not even an argument
It’s nice to have solar power with battery banks used as a ups system. But that’s Just until my generator kick in 😊. He is not making sense on this matter.
I'm trying to do an analysis to see what is better.
How much does the fuel cost for the generator?
I'm not bashing generators. I really am looking at both types to get a good total cost of each.
I have an all electric house.
No gas or propane lines here. So, I'd need a tank of some sort. That's why I'm trying to figure fuel costs. I'm assuming I'd need to fill that tank up. Having a huge tank of flamable fuel does concern me. And it probably would for my neighbors.
You can always bury the propane tank, life expectancy is 20-30 years in the ground. Considering your house is all electric and would need a pretty large tank to run a large (20 kW or larger) generator for an extended power outage, it's something worth considering.
How long do batteries last before they fail to hold a charge, generator is a safer option, especially for reliability.
That's a good questions, and it depends on the battery technology. Lithium-Ion batteries like the Tesla Powerwall 2 or Generac PWRcell have an estimate life of 12-15 years. While others like Sonnen have an estimated life of 42-years.
@@dalerolph 42 years life?
Yes, the Sonnen EcoLinx is using some of the best and safest battery technology on the market. It's not cheap by any means, but it has a 15,000 cycle warranty which 15,000/365-days = 41-years at that point the battery would only hold 80% of a charge minimum. Check it out: sonnenusa.com/en/sonnen-ecolinx/.
@@dalerolph my only question and/or point is those batteries you mentioned haven’t been round for 40 plus years meaning they can’t guarantee that length of life span. Absolute bollocks you read on the internet isn’t always the truth my friend.
These systems are tested in labs simulating decades of energy usage over the course of just a couple days. They're charged and discharged over and over on smaller scale and the scientists and engineers are able to calculate how long a battery will last. The battery technology doesn't need to be around for 40-years to know if it'll hold 80% of a charge by that time. How long does a generator last with regular maintenance? Almost all combustable engines need to be rebuilt at some point or another, we figured that out on day one of the Ford Model T.
Let’s say your power goes out for a week due to a damaging weather event and there is a lot of cloud cover. Let’s also say you want to run your HVAC during the outage, as well as your washer, your electric dryer, and everything else in your home. How long will your Power Wall last? Will it run the central air that whole time? Will it run it at all? My 24kw Generac standby natural gas generator will run indefinitely, power everything, and costs less than a backup battery system. Yes, you can hear it running in the background if you are standing near a window where it is installed. Music to my ears. Yes, there are emissions. They are TEMPORARY during an emergency. Living here in Ohio the choice is not even close.
I need something just the run the heater..I don’t care about lights or food in the fridge or tv…I have natural gas heating but need electricity just for the fan. Any ideas?
Did you come to a decision?
Could buy a 12v 100ah lifepo4 battery and a 1000w pure sinewave inverter, fuse, 100a switch, tools and make one up yourself, or get an all-in-one like a Bluetti 'power station', plus a small generator ~$200 to charge it up if needs be.
DO THEY PRODUCE SOLID STATE BATTERIES ?
Love my natural gas powered generator. I’m wondering should I run it say 50 % of the time and save money on my utility bill ??
Only if ur utility charges u higher rates at peak time like 4pm to 9pm then it will save u $$
The title should read “Solar and Batteries” because half the advantages you’re talking about rely on the battery being connected to solar for there to be an advantage such as in the case of a multi-day outage. I do like the idea of a battery and inverter as a UPS for the shorter outages but unless you go all the way with a big enough solar array for Canadian winters I don’t see a real alternative to having a generator with a big fuel tank for the situation I’m in... Eventually solar would be nice so the generator can be used less, but we already have the backup generator installed, so spending lots on solar isn’t in the budget just yet, but I would probably consider adding a battery first, not replacing.
There Is A Place For Whole House Battery Backup Systems But Here In Texas I Believe Most Suburban/Rural Homeowners Will Benefit More From A Natural Gas Or Propane Whole House Generator. Power Outages After A Major Storm Can Last Several Days Longer Than A Battery Backup System With Solar Panels Can Last.
Only way this is even close to justifiable is if you’re in a earthquake prone area ! Other than that, generator is the way to go! Neighbors aren’t bothered by the noise .. just jealous if they don’t have one lol
It's a bit deceptive to title this Battery Backup and not mention the 100s for square feet of solar panels needed to equal the output of a generator(which I noticed outputs of both systems weren't discussed). Especially when the cost of a generator is mentioned, but not the cost of the panels. Power outage for a week plus in overcast/snowy conditions, one system has a clear advantage over the other. Item 6, utilities cutting power was something I hadn't thought of for my area. Thank you for your take on the subject.
Honda generators are quiet, much more so than my Briggs Stratton. Propane hydronic furnace heats whole house and water with only one 15 amp circuit measured at 2.8 amp x120 v= 336watts. Block ice from your chest freezer will almost eliminate any need to power your refrigerator. Propane fireplaces require no electricity. DeWalt rechargeable battery flashlights or similar will provide all needed lights...
Where do the raw materials to make batteries come from?
Exactly
I have a 6kw solar grid tied system in the Philippines. I had the option of having it backed up with batteries or a generator. I went with a 20kVA single phase 220 volts 60 hz power plus sound proof digital controller generator with an ATS. Battery technology is not to the point where I can power all my appliances without any issues when there is a black out. With my generator I can power everything for many hours until the grid comes back online. Maybe in the future battery technology will get there but right now the back up to my solar grid tied system is my generator and I’ve never had a problem with it. Here in Philippines blackouts/brownouts are common, with my solar system I save money where my electricity bill and I have 100% back up with my generator
Are we going to ignore the reason most people have generators, it’s for when we run out of power for a week or two….. how many batteries does that take to run the AC/heater , all appliances indefinitely
Yeah it's probably time I do a new video regarding generators and batteries.
Batteries are better than generators because they are much more profitable for Solar Installation companies. Why would so many companies be jumping into the battery category if not profitable?
All these things are true, but after getting a solar system installed and hoping/planning for battery backup the Enphase system was going to cost me 20-40,000 USD for 11-22KW capacity (and that was just the hardware, installation extra). At least in Florida when we need power due to storm outage the solar production will be low and so battery needs are higher. It’s just cost prohibitive vs. a $10-15,000 generator install that will run forever. Yes I hate the noise, yes I hate the delay and everything you mention but unless you have net metering savings (which we don’t have here) they are still just soooo expensive, sadly. I’m hoping for the future. Great video and I’m not trying to be Debbie downer here but we must be realistic, only so much cash in the savings account.
Batteries will come down in price as the technology evolves and the demand increases. We too hope Enphase adjusts their approach on pricing as we find it pretty steep when compared to alternative AC coupled solutions like the sonnen. We love their ecosystem but the can do better.
Pacific Sun Tech ballpark difference in price compared with Sonnen? Still would love solar battery but I’ve got maybe 25k absolute tops to spend. I’m in Fl or I definitely would be calling you.
Hate the delay? With a generator? 15 to 20 seconds?!
@@hankh6224 Delay, noise and maintenance sucks with generator, no doubt
Just ordered a 18kw Generac and am excited to have the protection for my home. I have no idea where I would find space enough for battery banks, inverters, etc. Sorry but your attempt to pull customers to battery backup needs more work and better offers. Let the noise begin......I cannot wait.
Imma tear this up. 1. 50-70 dB is NOT loud 2. Batteries are NOT clean. They are made with heavy metals MINED from the ground. 3. A battery bank with enough reserve capacity will be large. Dependent on your battery chemistry, of course. 4. Clocks need to be reset? Oh the humanity! Unnecessary stress? Come on! 5. Batteries are not infallible. They do have a lifespan. So do the other electronics required. Since he mentioned Tesla. One of their battery packs is $16k. Depending on the battery chemistry, you may have hazardous chemicals like sulfuric acid. Lithium polymer batteries can catch fire if overcharged or over discharged. If you pay someone to look inspect your generator you are wasting money. 6. He is right about natural gas powered gens in earthquake zones. They aren't a viable option. 7. Overcast/rainy day? Night? Low charge or no rate. Run your HVAC or dryer and watch your power drain. 8. Look into the startup cost of solar/wind/battery systems. The return on investment can be the lifespan of your solar panel. Then you need a new panel which puts you at square 1. 9. Some states, like Florida, mandate that you are connected to the grid for a property to be habitable. 10. Again, look to my point 8. Startup costs and lifespan. Now, I'm not saying that this is dumb or not needed. But, rather you need to evaluate you needs or be realistic about the costs and infrastructure required.
Now if your home is surrounded by a forest and the solar panels can't charge the batteries then your up shit creek without a paddle...
Batteries on solar are great if the solar can recharge them after they deplete in a extended outage, but no one tells you that the solar DOES NOT GENERATE when power is out!
I live in Florida also considering what were going through with the virus and the fact that hurricane season coming I'm extra worried this year. Wondering if there really is any practical alternative solar battery back up solution to a generator ?
Mark Glenn I was wondering the same thing and if you were able to run them in tandem as the grid goes down for months in a strong hurricane
I would recommend watching for the Generac PWRcell system, it may be the first all in one solution for solar, battery and generator backup.
@@Dead_Aim556 I give up there really is no realistic reasonably priced solution at this point in time that I can see. If we get hit but a bad hurricane I"ll stay in some hotel till its all over thats my solution
@@markglenn24 A generator and gas will be cheaper.
@@nospam-hn7xm Generator might be a practical solution if I had natural gas
This is more about the advantage of solar with battery rather than just battery backup.
Let's not forget if you do lose power for the night, your batteries will never fully recharge for the night coming. Solar is good, battery backup is good for a few hours.
Batteries alone are still not even close to providing a relatively economical long-term (3-5 days) whole-house backup. You’d need a full solar array and a heavy supply of batteries (3-5 powerwalls) to get you through off hours, essentially something capable of being completely off grid. So, what? Close to 80-100k vs 10k? Not to mention, a limited-use Generac, regularly serviced, would last decades.
I would LOVE to have a non-gas solar/battery setup, but energy storage is just too expensive at the scale needed unless you’re in a tiny house.
Natural gas generators are the only practical solution for people in certain areas where a power outage can Easily last 8 days or more.....and solar does not work if the roof gets damaged....so.....this is Not practical for lots of people...
Can you have batteries without solar panels ?
I live in Florida where you can lose power for days to a week .. I literally would have to have a battery bank the size of my garage.
BTW .. I have a large buried propane tank.
.. My peak electrical usage is 6 megawatts per month.. that's about 200 panels.
After a day with a battery generator you’ll have to run a gas generator to charge the batteries.
The optimum so it's too run the house on a power wall and only run the generator a couple hours to charge up the batteries.
In the South where we been hit but hurricane have solar panels doesn’t work unfortunately
The cost of solar and batteries installed for the average home: $45,000+. A generator $4000 + either propane or Natural gas. Incentives will only offset taxes, so if you don't pay much in taxes, you get no incentive. The sound with the lid closed is about a vacuum clean noise and can barely be heard inside. If you have the money, go for batteries, otherwise go for what is affordable.
The generator will last a lifetime if maintained (oil change and filter every year), but batteries need to be replaced every 10 years or so.
Would that be double "D"s 👀👀or triple "A"s.
for longer outages, you need both..... use the genny to recharge the batteries and then shut it off and run on batteries, repeat if needed..
50dB is very OK. The off gas from a generator dissipates into the air, collects with other stuff transforms into part of the recycle process. NO PROBLEM.
Very good argument in favor of battery back-up!
This sounds very much like the AC and DC discussion between Edison, Westinghouse and Tesla. Edison lost mainly at first because of the cost. Westinghouse won because of the practicality. There are some flaws in your argument but the big one is cost. I am sure you will win in time but not now.
Pricing for batteries are coming down quick and the technology is really moving in a positive way. I don't think it'll be too much longer before a battery backup and generator are closer to the same cost.
Dan, assuming you have about a 2000 square-foot house and you’re able to get by with minimal use (in other words you totally stop using your oven, clothes dryer, hair dryers, things like that). you can probably get by with $3000-4000 worth of LiFePO4 batteries per day. Of course if you have sunlight and a few panels to help recharge them, you can go a lot further. But it takes some doing to only pay a reasonable price, there’s absolutely NO contractors involved. DIY. See Will Prowse on UA-cam for tons of ideas and info.