Why You Should Leave Your FAANG Job
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
- Dalton Caldwell and Michael Seibel discuss the struggles of working at FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google) and how to strategize leaving a big tech job to become a founder at a startup.
Apply to Y Combinator: www.ycombinator.com/apply/
Work at a startup: www.ycombinator.com/jobs
Chapters (Powered by bit.ly/chapterme-yc) -
00:00 - When you should quit?
01:00 - What value can technical founders extract from a FAANG job?
03:21 - Assumptions - Why working at FAANG makes sense?
03:48 - Reality of the job
06:01 - Transferable Skills
08:35 - Path to get funded
10:55 - The retention trap - What's the company trying to do?
15:31 - When to get out?
17:31 - FAANG Optimization
18:56 - Plan at the start - Наука та технологія
When do you know it's time to leave your job to start a company?
when the bank approves your credit line 😁
When you make an MVP and you have a Product market fit and you cannot keep up your paying job then its time to get full timè into your startup
A good job there is less than 8h/day. Keep the job, work on the side on the business and when the business shows promise (e.g. makes a bit of revenue with hopefully a path for more and you have enough savings, or the business makes enough to support you), then leave the job... Quite simple to me. If the job is TERRIBLE, then change it. If you have skills you can always go back to a job if needed.
When you have a new plan to start, leave FAANG
After the MVP is shipped, need money for that 😀
I was in this situation!!! I left the job, found my startup, work on it 6 months, launch my product, didn't succeed to raise money, and now going to work on FAANG again (need to support a family with 8 children...) to save more money to continue my startup, and also working on it on my free time. I believe that I will succeed if I will focus, continue and not give up!
._. Wow!
Keep up your commitment to your family and your dream of creating a successful product.
It requires double work, yes, but you won't be happy otherwise. Your post shows a great need for a sense of purpose: perseverance is key.
Can you share what's the product?
@@quasa0 currently it is availabale only in Israel. I'm working on English version and than I will publish it worldwide
8 children?1
Just want to add a point: people outside tech place tremendous value on FAANG experience. So when you have to talk to customers, partners etc, suddenly FAANG brand value shines.
Sure those of us in tech know it's all BS, but that's not how 99.99%+ of the world thinks.
PREACH! This is everything I've ever felt that's wrong about faang and have had trouble articulating. Potentially unfulfilling projects (ads), potentially evil projects (psychological manipulation), potentially canned projects after spending a ton of time on it, and golden handcuffs.
These conversations are gold mine. More people should watch it.
I’m at FAANG and this is so spot on. The vesting at my smiley face company is the worst of all top firms, and I’ve seen the equity and signing bonuses as a trap since day 1.
I stashed the signing bonus and counted RSUs as money lost and am on my way out. There’s too much cool stuff going on to be stuck at an enormous company working on a trivial little project helping them take over the world. It’s the startup life for me
it's always day 1
@@skellington2000 Do you realize that people are motivated by more than money? Especially when they have more than enough from either option, the little bit more for a soul crushing position just isn't worth it to some.
I did the same 8 years back. Never looked back.
@@abhishekbasu3180hey what you did after quitting?
I am also thinking about quitting.
@@benjaminjin2224 this made me laugh so hard
I think this needs to illustrate whos its marketing towards more. "Most FAANG employees work on things like ad servers" is not a justification for not gaining experience with a scaled company.
One example is, I could learn ElasticSearch in college, but who here can say they worked on an ElasticSearch cluster with 7+ nodes of 1tb data each in college? That's something I got to do in the real world, and it helped me understand the needs and consequences of that scale without affecting the customers in my startup.
Adding onto this, if you're new to the field and looking to gain experience, LOOK FOR IT. It is true you are likely to get trapped in a bad role, but you have the chance to use your position with a big company to learn as many roles as possible to achieve your dreams down the road.
Reality hurts dont it
Thank you so much. You’ve given me the last bit of encouragement I needed to walk away.
As time goes on, most projects at FAANG will be about maintaining and updating legacy applications and projects, and the number of cutting edge projects will lessen as FAANGs become more concerned about maintaining shareholder value than they will be about creating the next big thing. This happened to IBM and MS. When I was a kid, getting a job at IBM was the epitome of career success.
100%. You end up working at a major mega-corporation maintaining their assets, not developing your own priorities. Facts.
Yeah this is why large corporations care so much about merger and acquisition. It’s basically their R and D team.
In a new regime of higher interest rates for longer, FAANG is no longer such a great place to work
These big companies are already past their growth phase, so less potential for career growth. The only growth for these companies can come from share buybacks and cost cutting in the form of employment benefits.
Not to mention AI can replace mediocre devs, and any Anti-Monopolgy legislation will destroy the company. It's like the Finance industry in the 2000s
Beginning from scratch or almost from scratch, one of hardest thing in life. But when you achieve it, it's a new life
Insightful talk, Dalton & Michael! A must-watch for anyone at the FAANG crossroads.
I know the focus of this video was on FAANG but it feels a bit biased since it seems to be taken for granted that if you found or work at a startup that you can be doing something interesting.
Most startups also don’t do anything particularly interesting, especially since to get funding your startup needs a path to profitability. So most startups boil down to “we are doing something similar to large tech company X, but worse.”
Even if you are able to found a company that you consider interesting, in order to hire employees you will need to attract talent. It’s so hard to compete with FAANG in that, so it’s hard to keep a team that has the same quality as FAANG companies. That creates downward pressure on your ability to recruit and on your ability to maintain a clean code base.
Spot on. Finding a good startup company to work basically is like buying a lottery. FAANNG companies are way safer bets.
If you're the founder of a startup that isn't interesting then you're doing it wrong.
@@eightyeightdays everybody has their own definition of what is interesting, but I don’t think that recent successful startups like instacart or Airbnb are inherently doing more interesting things than Google or Amazon.
And at the end of the day, you have to get funding for your syrup as the founder. So ultimately your idea needs to have a path to making money, which to me immediately eliminates a lot of the most interesting options.
@@prestonrasmussen1758 this what you said didn't age well. FAANG is not safe. You can be fired anytime. I think they were talking about people who want to start company not those who want to resign FAANG to work for startup.
@@billievoo2107 why don’t you think this aged well? Because of the recent tech layoffs? They mostly targeted non-technical staff, and in any case nearly every FAANG company still has more employees right now than it did when I wrote that comment. There are layoffs, but after an unprecedented period of growth.
And even if FAANG companies are tightening the belt a bit by laying off 2-5% of their employees, that pales in comparison to how much harder it is now to get funding for a startup given interest rate hikes, inflation, and the recession. So I think my comment aged quite well.
Also, I thought it was clear from my comment but maybe I need to spell it out a bit more. Even if you’re starting your own software company, you can’t just do whatever work you want. You have to start a company that you can get funding for. That puts a lot of restrictions on the problem space if possible companies, as you need to have a path to monetization and a compelling reason why there is a good product market fit. Furthermore, many of the most interesting problems in tech are very difficult and very expensive to get off the ground. Two examples include AI research and cloud services. If you want to work in those fields, you can’t get funding for those types of companies unless you’re already a world class expert in the relevant area.
Working in startups isn’t necessarily wrong. I work in a startup, and I enjoy the outsized responsibility that I have relative to my years of experience. I also find the work I do interesting, but it’s not like the ratio of interesting jobs to mediocre jobs is higher in startups than in FAANG. It’s about the same distribution, with the caveat that FAANG also has a lot more highly specialized teams that startups can’t really afford to support.
Really nice content, l especially like the place of having a plan from the start and knowing what you came to accomplish and when to live. Wonderful video
This episode helped me before falling down the rabbit hole. I just graduated my bootcamp and have a startup idea that I've been working on fulltime with my team but the question of how long you gonna stay for long enough to get the value without getting trapped? inspired me to make a better decision of continuing to build my startup and to bet on myself.
experience and emotional intelligence is important, which you can get from getting a job first
@@nickiwoa7948 ive worked at 2 medium sized startups already i think I’m set
You wont be making anything decent if you only have bootcamp knowledge. Bootcamps are bare bones as is especially if you have no prior experience
@@moviesynopsis001 to give you more context I have 6+ years grinding saas / fintech startups in more operational roles. This bootcamp was more to amplify my technical experience I already had.
This content is HIGHLY valuable. Love these videos.
From the video on why you should start a start up!
This is when your jobs exhausts you, when you get more excitement from your side project. Also when your side project gets traction and finally if you meet a cofounder you enjoy working with...
Yes! The Retention Trap! That is where I am at. Im a 46 year old 20 year construction worker (laborer) who desperately wants out. I have a business idea and have been doing my research and am ready to move forward which brought me to you. I am glad to have found you.
I would be happy to just be given the opportunity to work at a FAANG company.
My first job out of college at Amazon was the job Dalton described.
My next job at Microsoft was actually incredibly high impact and helped me learn and grow my career exponentially.
That opened doors to my current role at Stripe.
The one thing that is heavily missed in this video is that sometimes people don't really have a choice. Some of us come from financial hardships, some of us are on highly volatile visas, some of us have giant student loans to repay. The FAANG jobs might not be what we dreamed of doing to change the world with our tech skills, and we know that it's often fairy dust in pretty marketing wrappers, but those jobs offer a level of stability and security that allow many of us to afford our families a slightly higher and more comfortable life than they have ever experienced, they help us remain in the country at least long enough to repay our debts.
I'm not disagreeing with any of the points in this video, I honestly wish I could have made different decisions in my early career; but unfortunately not everyone can take that plunge when their risk appetite has the potential to cause collateral damage to their near and dear ones.
I think Dalton and Michael are more talking to the tech founders and the mindset of "I have to have FAANG experience to succeed" or "My startup has to have people from FAANG to be successful and legit."
A bit different from what you described. But I absolutely agree with your points.
@@HawkinsZhu - Very fair point.
Totally agree. I think the points alone are kinda right, but in the context of privileged people who can choose where to work. I almost destroyed myself (financially) with 2 unsuccessful startups; joining a FAANG kinda saved my future tbh. It feels like a healthy break. Successful bias here blinds you to the fact that majority of founders fail.
tbh I liked this video much better ua-cam.com/video/HuytSzVYEpA/v-deo.html (skip to 18:03) much better and covers the bias part as well..These people also did successful startups but still recommend the FAANG/stable path for most people and even when you do want to do venture backed startups be clear about the reasons..The Y combinator advice is very surface level I feel.
Dalton and Michael are talking to americans who come from upper and middle-class families, who dont fancy working in big tech their best option for securing a decent income, paying debts, getting accepted in tech circles and raising money.
4:00 Try weekend maintenance shifts as an operations analyst at a data center for a large sector of the financial industry. If you really want to see scale, and the power SLAs bring to making things happen.
hi bro how are you
can you tell me
what kind of video record you are using?
Thank you for sharing gentlemen.
what you fail to mention is not everyone wants the stress of running a company, some people value security over anything else. a FAANG job provides securty
Tech is inherently volatile. There are no guarantees except your own tenacity and skills. Apple almost went out of business in the 90s. Yahoo was once the dominant search engine. MySpace used to rule social media. They were all considered safe bets too.
False.... I've worked for two FAANG companies as an engineer and was fired from both because of org changes and politics. The most secure thing you could do for yourself is to learn how to be independent.
@@djcardwell independence is key
They do say a couple times, that this video is not for everyone and only the ~1% of people who are very disgruntled with being an employee
@@Epicer95 exactly lol. They said it explicitly.
I quit FAANG 4 years ago and am not looking back
Super helpful! Appreciate you guys.
What’s your opinion on a business guy, age 25. Going back to school to get the technical component. Recommended?
@ycombinator , do you believe this advice applies to a person who lives in developing nation like Pakistan (which does not necessarily have a great startup/funding ecosystem but has a great job right now)
Such an Insightful talk. Thank you
There is so much value in these videos!
Super true! thanks for the ideas
So work for the Matrix (big gov/tech) or
Create your own Matrix (startup)
" ... they are not happy about the work that they did in the universe ..."
Yes, and the reason is that a sense of purpose is essential for happiness; and even more so for people who have the "entrepreneurial factors"
We used to call it “golden handcuffs”.
Almost 10 years at Facebook. “Retired” two years ago for a change of pace and to work on personal projects and open source.
Well that was a much needed pitcher of ice-cold water on my FAANG obsession. Thanks!
Hey! How can I suggest a topic for a video?
Yep working in startup is the best. Within 3 days of joining received first task, was assigned oncall the 2nd cycle. Screwed loads of features, crashed one service during sale 😆
Learning is amazing
My advice to graduates joining Amazon is to dive into AWS. Most new services an Amazon was built on AWS and this gives you skills that are useful outside of Amazon. :)
Wow that's a great conversation that young software engineers should watch!
I quit my job at Intel after 3 years to start my own business and leaving the corporation was the most freeing thing I've ever done in my life.
On the other hand, many friends of mine are stuck in the traps you're talking about and they are not aware of it.
Sounds like you may have a story. Congrats.
It would have been nice to get an opinion from a successful technical founder/early engineer during this talk. Both of you have stated that you aren't primarily technical, so I wouldn't really expect you to fully appreciate what a programmer can gain from working at a FAANG company.
Having said that, I agree with a lot of what you said, especially the "golden handcuffs". I also work at FAANG and I can relate to a good portion of the content in this episode, lol.
I worked at Amazon for four years. I get the point this video trying to convey but some of them is misleading in a way.
It is true that you only work on small part of the system. However it is not as easy as button clicking or pixel tweaking. Piles of historical and technical reason was on top of that small part which takes people to deep dive to understand. It is shitty to understand all the historical context but it is not irrelevant to improve your reasonable thinking.
As for internal tools, the principle behind those tool is transferrable. It is true though you will never know how to get funded in FANNG, but truthfully, it is not something you can learn in any company as a programmer.
I normally like the videos of these two even before watching.
How can outsourcing BPO company serve FAANG clients better?
I previously worked for Microsoft. How do I come back but working remotely?
Would add in Fang you have a much higher chance of working for an incompetent manager, than in a startup. Been there, done that, much happier in my startup now, without waiting 4 years for vesting and maniacly observing the ticker price
"If they warehouse you on the Android setups team" 😂😭🤣
surely a weird problem to have for workaholics and people who derive meaning solely from work, but working on a meme project remote has been amazing for me
Some good points were made but this perspective seemed very oriented towards the recent college grad and don’t apply the same way to the seasoned engineer with 5 - 10+ years of experience under their belt. Once you have reached a level of skills/experience to qualify for senior level technical roles in FAANG, the risk-adjusted financial opportunity-cost of doing a startup goes from significant to enormous. Senior and staff level engineers at FAANG’s routinely pull in 350k - 600k in annual total comp. Sure, a lot of that is in equity but once you hit the 1 year cliff and your equity grants start to vest that money is about as good as cash. Conversely if you launch a startup, you would be extremely lucky to pay yourself even half that within 3 years of launch…and that’s assuming you are in the 2% - 10% of startups that even survive that long. Does this mean you shouldn’t do a startup? Of course not. But it does mean that from the perspective of risk-adjusted wealth accumulation (let’s be honest this is a hugely important factor for the vast majority of us) doing a startup is a terrible idea compared to taking a senior level FAANG position.
i guess you’re not ambitious enough
100% if money is the only factor, but it isn’t.
I can feel that you are talking about TechLead at the end.
There’s more out there in big tech than just FAANG, but most large tech companies operate this way too.
The one big career role that might give you a good stepping stone into entrepreneurship (and the one I chose for my eventual transition) is technical presales. If you’re out solving interesting problems for real customers, you’re more likely to get something out of it.
But, beware the golden handcuffs get stronger for you in this kind of role too.
My question is, does YC accept applications from non-FAANG employees? (or other fancy names)
Chapters (Powered by ChapterMe) -
00:00 - When you should quit?
01:00 - What value can technical founders extract from a FAANG job?
03:21 - Assumptions - Why working at FAANG makes sense?
03:48 - - Reality of the job
06:01 - - Transferable Skills
08:35 - - Path to get funded
10:55 - - The retention trap - What's the company trying to do?
15:31 - - When to get out?
17:31 - FAANG Optimization
18:56 - Plan at the start
I've worked as an engineer at two FAANG companies. I loved working with intelligent people and networking, BUT Dalton and Michael are right about people misinterpreting the value of working at FAANG. The irony is that I'm not the kind of person that FAANG would generally want as an employee. I'm an impulsive, ADHD visionary that gets fired because I tell my manager how to do things. I'm happy to say that I was fired from Apple last week and am now working on my startup full-time, and I'm having a blast using the Elixir with the Phoenix framework!! Finally, get to do things my way!!
This is so cool Derek
ADHD ❤
One thing I noticed too is Toxic Positivity in the tech space. That s*@% pisses me off so much...
I usually I enjoy all your videos but this felt personal to me. Here is my completely subjective opinion based purely in my experience and I could totally be wrong:
YCombinator, and "startup talk" in general, makes you forget about successful bias: MOST STARTUPS FAIL. Most founders fail. And if you don't have the backup money (savings or family support), you risk stalling your finances , making them worse or even going bankrupt. I did the stupid thing and I almost destroyed myself. My first startup failed completely, my second one "fail" by staying as a small business (10-15 employees). I'm sure I'm going back for a third one, but for now a FAANG job is giving me lots of value and I'd totally give the advise of joining one, specially if you need it for financial stability. If you don't, there is still plenty of technical value!
After years here I keep learning and there is a bunch of stuff I will totally transfer to my next endeavor. The point about internal tools is just wrong, because (1) I can build versions of those tools if I need or (2) I can get alternatives open source or commercial. Exposing myself to those internal tools and see real applications has been super valuable and makes me think about the ones I used to have. And also not just technical skills, soft skills as well. Seeing how a company works on the inside also made me realize all the things I got wrong, and I definitely transferring that knowledge back.
But hey, don't listen to me. I'm just another failed founder :) .....for now!
PS. Final thought, maybe this video is addressed to **young** people who have ONLY work for a FAANG. If that's your case, then yeah probably thinking about quitting your comfort zone must be a scary thought.
EDIT: The more I think about this video, the more I disagree: Another unknown fact about FAANG workers is that a lot of engineers actually quit to start a startup. Like the jump between founder to Eng/EM is well known. Examples: 1) My manager was also a founder (at a YC COMPANY!) before he joined and I’m sure he’s also going back at some point. 2) Another of my teammates revived his apps after he got the green card (you can’t work on side projects on work visas :c) and he actually made them so successful with what he learned at the company that his big salary with stock wasn’t competing anymore with his other income, so he quit. 3) And another friend from Stripe went from unsuccessful founder to Angel investor with the money he made! Like… of course there is PLENTY of value you’ll get from a FAANG. And the work itself is not bad at all, there is actually pretty cool and challenging projects.
EDIT 2: Final edit, i promise. How many startups are out there by Ex-Facebookers, ex-Googlers, ex-whatever: Stripe is one of them. Wizeline, Kueski, SevOne, etc. All the Tesla killers by ex-Tesla engineers!
Agree about the internal tools part. Most of the internal tools have their counterparts in open source. So its on you if you just use the tools and don't understand the concepts behind it. It shouldn't take long for a decent engineer to learn the open source equivalent of bigquery lets say. So the point that you need to learn everything from scratch is completely wrong. If you used those internal services in FAANg and understand how they really work you will pick up their open source equivalent much quickly so that knowledge is still useful. Aws , azure or gcp all have equivalents of those services you're not building anything from scratch.
@@abhis9353 yeah exactly. You actually made me remember a friend who implemented those alternative versions to his own apps and he made them so successful with the optimisations that the revenue he got was so much bigger than his salary/stock that he just quit without thinking too much into it. And his case is not even exceptional, plenty of folks jump between FAANG job and startup life.
It can be hard, especially when the job contract is bounded to your residence and work permit.
Are there specific locations where having a job is necessary to get an accommodation?
@@intellectbykinshukdudeja8921 Residence permit is not about getting the accommodation but it is about having the permission to work in that country as a foreigner. Such residence and work permits are commonly bounded to the working contract until to get a permanent residence and work permit (e.g. to get Green Card in the US). The process is usually time-consuming and makes it almost impossible to leave the job and start a business for the first generation of immigrants.
Put this on Apple Podcasts pleeease
"If you give someone something and then threaten to take it away they will irrationally value it to avoid a loss." - I've been there.
This was a great watch, but gosh, what a privileged life when your biggest worry is to leave your cushy FAANG job to work on your startup idea...
Very interesting points.
Thanks for the content!
The grass is always greener
With 25 working for Google was all I wanted but I failed at the interview… Now I cannot imagine doing something more fun then being a founder. 😃
How are you doing, buddy? Still afloat?
I want to know how to break in
Consigning the reality of the Job you said something about a FAANG employee not really getting a good experience about how start ups work but what if someone who worked in Google. wont it be a google it was still a startup. Don't you think doesn't he/she have a good experience on how startups work?
A lot of this is not relevant if you work in sales/channel. So much of what I've learned at FAANG has increased my skill level to apply at any company id start or work at in the future.
How to get that job
Hi guys,
I really like these videos, but I feel they are mainly targeted to people in the US. As an aspiring founder from Spain, landing a job at FAANG is much harder than for the average american - many of my ex coworkers are working at Google though, but I've no interest in pursuing a career there. Does this advice only apply to FAANG jobs or to any company? I work in tech for an European consulting company and I want to quit too, even though the salary and the conditions are good. Most young people my age would kill for my job, but I'm simply not cut out for corporate.
Why do you have a discrimination against FAANG? Nothing wrong working with big companies, I'm work with one myself. The difference in working in a really big company with interesting projects and collaborating with architects it they are all engineers. Being Software Engineer is not just about learning how to code, but also being an architect, knowing when to code, and what to code. Solving interesting solutions.
As someone who quit Facebook to start a startup, and then publicly explained my decision on UA-cam, so much good advice here!
Thought of you when I started watching!
I work at a named Tech company, but it isn't in FAANG. I didn't go to a target school a more known state college. Do I need a FAANG on my resume for those credentials to improve my chance of funding?
are you technical?
@@ilovekoffi4865 what does that mean?
@@nikita2560 can he code?
Pretty inspiring, im working on AI businesses now full-time which really gets me excited to get out of bed. Frugality is real though, running most of it from my home GPU/CloudFlared tunnel
Thank you guys for this video! I think this your advice also applicable for MBB with 99% accuracy.
Wow… more engineers need to watch this
Is working at FAANG or a comparable big tech company really that strong of a signal for VCs? I’m working at one rn. Should I mention I work at such a company when applying to YC or other investors?
Absolutely. That's like leaving out of your resume that you got a BS at Harvard or MIT or Stanford.
Spot on saying this will resonate with some small percentage of "FAANG" folks :) (or is it MAANA now) As an ex-FAANG myself starting to build my own startup
The bonus wins 👏👏
One transferable skill at FAANG may be Product Management. That's a good skill for Founders to have. Sounds basic, but risk assessment and other team building skills are very valuable as it pertains to Scum teams and working with stakeholders.
@@lepidoptera9337 trying to think of a scenario where I would not be in contact with my customers... please go argue with someone else.
I’m a product manager who’s being pulled away to startups right now. I’m getting startup ideas because of my product innovation sense
Man yt hit me hard. Would love to know more about startup failure. Prevent swimmer body illusion
Will my YC application be accepted?
Amazing chat! But.. weird beaches..? 🏖
Step 1: Get into FAANG.
Lovely talk! Thanks a lot!
Why am I watching this even when I don't have a FAANG job?
😅
"Dalton as a Service"... screen recruiter calls for you.
Great content, please keep it up!
YCombinator is talking their book basically
So who would make your headphones then? :)
me watching this after the rejection email
Looks at channel name YCombinator.. Okay that makes sense
I spent 3 years building a product just to have it scrapped before it was even released. It was at that moment where I realized im not meant to be an employee.
Them feels
Them feels
All I can say
*virtual hug*
didn't we drop N in FAANG lol
To listen to later
Very different perspective now that I have a big company job, lol
FAANG? What about everyone else?
Wish me luck, I said goodbye to my big company for those reasons
Very well explained of the thought process. I am that 1% group and recently escaped from the trap by living below the means. I felt hard to stand out the herd who aims for promotion and lifestyle upgraders
can you center a div?
On the subject of unlearning FAANG, one of the silliest things start-ups do is emulating FAANG hiring practices, rather than tailoring their own. I am thinking of those silly white board exercises....
Imagine from next generation, everyone starts a startup (Ik it seems not possible) Then where would the employees come from ?
who have children to support and are more desperate for making immediate money
can you also talk about ageism in startups
What's a FAANG job?
Dam I can't even get in FAANG 😂
My life exactly…
Step 1 : GET A FAANG JOB ☠
"Talent Warehouse"