Pete, i especially adore your comment about the primary purpose of the shows is to be honest with your viewers, sponsorships and Disney aside. I think your sincerity is endearing.
DVC Disboards have been a lifeline for me venturing into the world of DVC. Shout out to moderator Sandisw. Her posts have been very helpful explaining or answering questions on a variety of topics. She should be a guest on the show sometime.
We need an organized DVC Member Advocacy Group. This watchdog group comprised of members would be able to provide the checks and balances necessary to ensure Disney is honoring the commitments to the members that THEY wrote and we agreed to. Going to an annual DVC membership meeting hoping to be heard or relying on a grassroots call-in campaign will not suffice in my opinion. Disney should be operating from a 'what will our members think' perspective rather than a 'we'll consider revising our plan if enough people complain' mentality. Proactive policy is always better than reactive adjustment.
Thank you folks for looking out for us, your fellow members! I appreciate all of your points and agree with all three of you 100% I, for one, would LOVE to see someone from DVC come on the show to explain these and other goings on!
Definitely looks sketchy. One of the benefits of DVC points is that it protects us from inflation. But if Disney is making our points worth less per night each year, that defeats the purpose of why we bought DVC in the first place. I really hope DVC is not doing this to DVC owners.
I totally agree with you. Paul's explaination was spot on as was Pete's editorial. I dislike the feeling that DVC is trying to dig deeper in my wallet.
@@lizcolombia57 Did you notice that DVC revised the 2022 Point Charts to avoid regulatory action and corporate embarrassment? Pretty interesting how that works...
I’m in UK where of course through no fault of DVC we have been barred from the US and using our points is impossible. Disney, like RCI decided to do staycation cruises around the UK. A big reason they are doing this is for test data so they can persuade authorities (CDC!) that they can cruise safely. With this in mind, RCI has given away 1000 places to first responders. What a great opportunity it is to use the DVC points us loyal UK fans have been unable to use- on the cruise. But the points requirements are extortionate. At a value of circa $14 a point on rental they want twice the price in many cases- and the cash prices are very expensive. And of course they will then rent those points cash, making even more money. I’m very disappointed they didn’t put the points prices right down for this cruise, even to cash price equivalents, so UK members could get some value from their unused points.
@@geofferypmeyers once you drop 35k they kind of have you by the, as Pete would say, you know the rest. If it wasn’t for communities like this people would never be aware of some of the “practices” that are going on. Most of the DVC members don’t have a clue.
@@geofferypmeyers As smart people say, "Trust but verify." DVC has a fiduciary responsibility to the owners. DVC also has financial incentives to act sketchy to increase profitability by taking rooms away from the owners. So you'd better do the math to make sure they really really do "have your best interest at heart."
The first rule of business ethics in university is that the stockholder is number one. Period. The employee that does the work is at the bottom-the customer is above the employee. They are about maximizing THEIR profits because it increases stock value ang their bonuses. And here I am trying to decide if I want to give them 27K.
Ive always wanted to be part of the “club” but its so disappointing to find out they are caring less and less. Definitely makes me question whether this is a good financial fit for me
I own a timeshare elsewhere and this is EXACTLY why I never converted our week into points when they wanted us to do this years ago. We have our week and that will never change. Maintenance Fees can, and do, increase but our week will never costs us more because we didn't buy into the point system.
I do not own DVC but I do have a saying about situations where companies forget there is a social media presence. "This isn't 1985 anymore!" Hope everyone gets it all figured out. Stand firm.
To get a DVC representative on your show would be a feather in the DIS cap. I hope this happens. Or at least a press release is issued that the DVCfan panel can discuss.
Great conversation and appreciate your DVC advocate work. Hope DVC will listen and allow someone to join your show. Transparency is desperately needed.
Thanks for this. It's refreshing to hear as the Disboards DVC moderator has been defending DVC throughout this whole mess. It's good to know that the entire team hasn't succumbed to Mickey colored glasses.
Much of the conversation was WAY over my head as, sadly, I am not a DVC owner. But if the changes DVC made were legal and fall within the guidelines they themselves put out, the same guideline to which the buyers agreed to when purchasing DVC, then I don't see how owners have a leg to stand on. By all means voice your concerns, but don't cry foul if no foul was committed.
Just got back from our 1st ever vacation being DVC owners, we were very disappointed as it didn't feel any "special" from any of the other Disney vacations we have taken. I wasn't looking for anything extravagant maybe a note in our room welcoming us, a couple complimentary bottles of water. We have stayed at lesser resorts and had more of a welcome.
The "special" part is the savings. But that is all. You need to adjust your expectations. I have owned DVC for over a decade. It is a nice timeshare. If Disney is offering onsite perks (not during the pandemic, of course), it is nice to participate in those perks. But when you boil it all down, DVC is just a nice timeshare (unless they keep making changes that turn it into a typical complete scam.) If you really want to feel special, stay at the Waldorf or Four Seasons.
Paul was talking about breakage...taking rooms out of inventory. I assume Disney is taking out the deluxe rooms out of inventory selling them at a higher cash rate. And in the flip side making the membership use more points having to acquire 1, 2 and 3 bedroom rooms. And forsing us to buy more points to get those rooms.
Yes. The number of points sold for a resort is fixed and the number of points in the point chart for that resort (for all villas for the whole year) is basically equivalent. For example, lets say DVC sold 5 million points for Resort A. Ten years on, maybe Disney decides they want higher profits so they increase the point charts so that there are an extra 50,000 points in the 2022 point chart to book resort A. The owners use all of their 5 million pts to book Resort A for 2022 but now there are villas still available (50,000 points worth)...which Disney is free to book for cash rentals to pad their bottom line. No cost - all profit. And yes, if you need an extra 50 points to book at the higher point costs, DVC can foreclose or ROFR a contract to sell you an add-on contract at direct prices to make a little more money.
Was down there in Dec. had a handful of issues, reached out to them DVC in a note because they keep asking me to spend more money. They have yet to ever reply to my note. Sketchy isn't the word, shady fits them much better when I have staff yelling at me on the phone because the door locks don't work.
Disney releases the point charts before it’s possible to book a room. I don’t see what the issue is. If it’s too many points in a certain season you should not book in that season🤷🏻♀️I book based on the point chart .
Thank you, guys for helping point out additional things like this. My wife and I have been mulling over our first DVC purchase, but more and more things come to light and things like this give us even more hesitation.
This type of business tactic baffles me. Even if it is perfectly legal, why run the risk of even seeming like you might be screwing over DVC customers when they are among the most loyal, evangelical, and extravagant customers of your product?
The other day I asked about using points from last year, using my current points from this year and borrowing points from the next year. I was told that Disney had temporarily reduced the amount of points members may borrow to 50%. Is this ok to do? Thanks, Larry
Playing the DVC game is all fun and games until they change the rules. Disney controls the points value. A good deal today may not be a good deal tomorrow. Not worth the commitment for me.
we are selling our contract in the hopes of rebuying in to BRV... but this crap is making us rethink rebuying and just booking Room with AP rates as we go. Just so much to keep up on, it shouldnt be this shady
The problem is that they probably never realized they were making their contracts for too long of a time. To assemble an honorable system, they should only increase dues/point prices for new sales and points assignments should be done per retail price of rooms. They should not adjust what points but you yesrnover year. This incentivized you to buy early and keep your contract to get the better price
If you purchase DVC which I grossly recommend as a direct and resale member you will be saving money, period. (Regardless of choosing direct or resale options.) DVC is great, some people have entitlement issues. This was a legal modification out of fairness based off of member's feedback.
While some people may conclude that DVC members have "entitlement" issues, when they really just want to get what they have paid for and what they were told when they signed their contract.
@@lizcolombia57 To repeat - it was an *ILLEGAL* modificiation which resulted in the 2022 Point Charts for September 2022 being revised. (If it had been a legal modification to increase the points as they did, the revision of point charts downward would create regulatory issues around selling too many points such that some owners would never be able (mathmatically) to find a villa to book anywhere in the DVC system.) They are obligated to keep the system in balance.
I'd like to take a moment to say that DVC said they wanted to make this change last year, they didn't, and that they will continue to "assess" in coming days/years
Shout out to the complainers - DVC tried to scam the owners but decided in August 2021 to revise the point charts for Sept 2022 to avoid regulatory consequences. The 2022 Point Charts are now much more in balance with prior years. That is great news! Unfortunately, we have to keep an eye out going forward for more shady dealings going forward but we can always hope they have learned their lesson...
My spring break trip for end of March is booked. Seems to me they are dragging their feet so points stay are they are through Easter season? You can not say you value members without showing it. It is hard to trust DVC if you see reason after reason not too.
And for all the people that used to criticize me for pushing resale only on the Facebook group. This^^ discussion is why! Don't pay the DVC premium! Resale only!
The number of points sold for a resort is fixed and the number of points in the point chart for that resort (for all villas for the whole year) starts off basically equivalent. For example, lets say DVC sold 5 million points for Resort A. Ten years on, maybe Disney decides they want higher profits so they increase the point charts so that there are an extra 50,000 points in the 2022 point chart to book resort A. The owners use all of their 5 million pts to book Resort A for 2022 but now there are villas still available (50,000 points worth)...which Disney is free to book for cash rentals to pad their bottom line. No cost - all profit. The owners continue to pay 100% of the resort's operating costs but now there are 50,000 points worth of rooms which they cannot book. (And yes, if you need an extra 50 points to book at the higher point costs, DVC can foreclose or ROFR a contract to sell you an add-on contract at direct prices to make a little more money.)
These comments come from a misunderstanding of how the points work. All of the TOTAL points stays the same. What they are doing is taking points from different seasons AND putting them into another season. THEN they are taking them from one room category another category. The total points will still be the same.
That is what they are SUPPOSED to do. Increase points here and decrease points over there. But that is not what they did for 2022. The number of points sold for a resort is fixed and the number of points in the point chart for that resort (for all villas for the whole year) should be basically equivalent. For example, lets say DVC sold 5 million points for Resort A. Ten years on, maybe Disney decides they want higher profits so they increase the point charts so that there are an extra 50,000 points in the 2022 point chart to book resort A. The owners use all of their 5 million pts to book Resort A for 2022 but now there are villas still available (50,000 points worth)...which Disney is free to book for cash rentals to pad their bottom line. No cost - all profit. (And yes, if you need an extra 50 points to book at the higher point costs, DVC can foreclose or ROFR a contract to sell you an add-on contract at direct prices to make a little more money.)
It is disappointing that Dvc was trying to do this to us. I also feel that dvc member services is slipping too. The last few times I called members services, I've had nothing but utter rudeness from their customer service department. I've had them speaker the last two times calling and even my husband made a comment on how unprofessional the agent was on the phone. I'm a little disillusioned from my whole experience as DVC member.
We are DVC and if it’s legal then it is what is If people aren’t happy then sell your DVC Since the last year we are so great full for the privilege life we have 👍😃
We NEED your Honesty Pete, That's why we continue to tune in!
Pete, i especially adore your comment about the primary purpose of the shows is to be honest with your viewers, sponsorships and Disney aside. I think your sincerity is endearing.
DVC Disboards have been a lifeline for me venturing into the world of DVC. Shout out to moderator Sandisw. Her posts have been very helpful explaining or answering questions on a variety of topics. She should be a guest on the show sometime.
💯 agree with this!
We need an organized DVC Member Advocacy Group. This watchdog group comprised of members would be able to provide the checks and balances necessary to ensure Disney is honoring the commitments to the members that THEY wrote and we agreed to. Going to an annual DVC membership meeting hoping to be heard or relying on a grassroots call-in campaign will not suffice in my opinion. Disney should be operating from a 'what will our members think' perspective rather than a 'we'll consider revising our plan if enough people complain' mentality. Proactive policy is always better than reactive adjustment.
💯 agree with you.
Well stated, excellent AND implementable idea.
Thank you folks for looking out for us, your fellow members! I appreciate all of your points and agree with all three of you 100%
I, for one, would LOVE to see someone from DVC come on the show to explain these and other goings on!
It would be great for someone from DVC to talk on your show Pete about the points
Never happen. Disney can't control the narrative on Pete's show. They don't like real questions.
Definitely looks sketchy. One of the benefits of DVC points is that it protects us from inflation. But if Disney is making our points worth less per night each year, that defeats the purpose of why we bought DVC in the first place. I really hope DVC is not doing this to DVC owners.
I totally agree with you. Paul's explaination was spot on as was Pete's editorial. I dislike the feeling that DVC is trying to dig deeper in my wallet.
Your still saving money. If your unhappy as a direct member or resale member sell your contracts and join Disney 33 club.
Exactly!
@@lizcolombia57 Did you notice that DVC revised the 2022 Point Charts to avoid regulatory action and corporate embarrassment? Pretty interesting how that works...
I’m in UK where of course through no fault of DVC we have been barred from the US and using our points is impossible.
Disney, like RCI decided to do staycation cruises around the UK. A big reason they are doing this is for test data so they can persuade authorities (CDC!) that they can cruise safely.
With this in mind, RCI has given away 1000 places to first responders.
What a great opportunity it is to use the DVC points us loyal UK fans have been unable to use- on the cruise.
But the points requirements are extortionate. At a value of circa $14 a point on rental they want twice the price in many cases- and the cash prices are very expensive.
And of course they will then rent those points cash, making even more money.
I’m very disappointed they didn’t put the points prices right down for this cruise, even to cash price equivalents, so UK members could get some value from their unused points.
Agree with you!
When you think a company has your best interest, they already won.
Sometimes they do. They want customer satisfaction and repeat customers
@@geofferypmeyers once you drop 35k they kind of have you by the, as Pete would say, you know the rest. If it wasn’t for communities like this people would never be aware of some of the “practices” that are going on. Most of the DVC members don’t have a clue.
@@geofferypmeyers As smart people say, "Trust but verify."
DVC has a fiduciary responsibility to the owners. DVC also has financial incentives to act sketchy to increase profitability by taking rooms away from the owners.
So you'd better do the math to make sure they really really do "have your best interest at heart."
The first rule of business ethics in university is that the stockholder is number one. Period. The employee that does the work is at the bottom-the customer is above the employee.
They are about maximizing THEIR profits because it increases stock value ang their bonuses.
And here I am trying to decide if I want to give them 27K.
Ive always wanted to be part of the “club” but its so disappointing to find out they are caring less and less. Definitely makes me question whether this is a good financial fit for me
15 or more years ago - it was a good deal. But they keep looking at timeshare scammers as the "industry standard" now so it's very risky to jump in.
I own a timeshare elsewhere and this is EXACTLY why I never converted our week into points when they wanted us to do this years ago. We have our week and that will never change. Maintenance Fees can, and do, increase but our week will never costs us more because we didn't buy into the point system.
I do not own DVC but I do have a saying about situations where companies forget there is a social media presence. "This isn't 1985 anymore!" Hope everyone gets it all figured out. Stand firm.
Great point!
To get a DVC representative on your show would be a feather in the DIS cap. I hope this happens.
Or at least a press release is issued that the DVCfan panel can discuss.
Yes! 💯
Great conversation and appreciate your DVC advocate work. Hope DVC will listen and allow someone to join your show. Transparency is desperately needed.
Thanks for this. It's refreshing to hear as the Disboards DVC moderator has been defending DVC throughout this whole mess. It's good to know that the entire team hasn't succumbed to Mickey colored glasses.
Much of the conversation was WAY over my head as, sadly, I am not a DVC owner. But if the changes DVC made were legal and fall within the guidelines they themselves put out, the same guideline to which the buyers agreed to when purchasing DVC, then I don't see how owners have a leg to stand on. By all means voice your concerns, but don't cry foul if no foul was committed.
The Dis is.
Now Disney is increasing points for this and not removing them as per the legal requirements in deeded agreements.
Just got back from our 1st ever vacation being DVC owners, we were very disappointed as it didn't feel any "special" from any of the other Disney vacations we have taken. I wasn't looking for anything extravagant maybe a note in our room welcoming us, a couple complimentary bottles of water. We have stayed at lesser resorts and had more of a welcome.
The "special" part is the savings. But that is all. You need to adjust your expectations.
I have owned DVC for over a decade. It is a nice timeshare. If Disney is offering onsite perks (not during the pandemic, of course), it is nice to participate in those perks. But when you boil it all down, DVC is just a nice timeshare (unless they keep making changes that turn it into a typical complete scam.)
If you really want to feel special, stay at the Waldorf or Four Seasons.
Great show. Glad to see that DVC is getting called out when they do something shady.
Paul was talking about breakage...taking rooms out of inventory. I assume Disney is taking out the deluxe rooms out of inventory selling them at a higher cash rate. And in the flip side making the membership use more points having to acquire 1, 2 and 3 bedroom rooms. And forsing us to buy more points to get those rooms.
Yes. The number of points sold for a resort is fixed and the number of points in the point chart for that resort (for all villas for the whole year) is basically equivalent. For example, lets say DVC sold 5 million points for Resort A.
Ten years on, maybe Disney decides they want higher profits so they increase the point charts so that there are an extra 50,000 points in the 2022 point chart to book resort A. The owners use all of their 5 million pts to book Resort A for 2022 but now there are villas still available (50,000 points worth)...which Disney is free to book for cash rentals to pad their bottom line. No cost - all profit.
And yes, if you need an extra 50 points to book at the higher point costs, DVC can foreclose or ROFR a contract to sell you an add-on contract at direct prices to make a little more money.
Was down there in Dec. had a handful of issues, reached out to them DVC in a note because they keep asking me to spend more money. They have yet to ever reply to my note. Sketchy isn't the word, shady fits them much better when I have staff yelling at me on the phone because the door locks don't work.
Disney releases the point charts before it’s possible to book a room. I don’t see what the issue is. If it’s too many points in a certain season you should not book in that season🤷🏻♀️I book based on the point chart .
Great info about the DVC points, thank you for your hard work. This is upsetting to hear how DVC is doing business. I hope Disney is listing.
Thank you, guys for helping point out additional things like this. My wife and I have been mulling over our first DVC purchase, but more and more things come to light and things like this give us even more hesitation.
This type of business tactic baffles me. Even if it is perfectly legal, why run the risk of even seeming like you might be screwing over DVC customers when they are among the most loyal, evangelical, and extravagant customers of your product?
Agree! 💯
Points chart would never change our sales person told us we need to sue.
The other day I asked about using points from last year, using my current points from this year and borrowing points from the next year. I was told that Disney had temporarily reduced the amount of points members may borrow to 50%. Is this ok to do? Thanks, Larry
Yes. Disney has the right to suspend banking and borrowing completely. (And may very well do so around 2040 as resorts are about to expire.)
So as a new owner should I wait for the new points chart to book Easter 2022?
I personally would not wait and believe that any changes made will not affect any available bookings as of the date of their release.
Playing the DVC game is all fun and games until they change the rules. Disney controls the points value. A good deal today may not be a good deal tomorrow. Not worth the commitment for me.
we are selling our contract in the hopes of rebuying in to BRV... but this crap is making us rethink rebuying and just booking Room with AP rates as we go. Just so much to keep up on, it shouldnt be this shady
agree this level of "responsibility" is not ok, its very stressful
💯 agree with you!
Is this about one resort specifically? Does this have to do with the née grand Floridian building?
Some resorts have been increased more than others. Nothing at all to do with VGF.
The problem is that they probably never realized they were making their contracts for too long of a time. To assemble an honorable system, they should only increase dues/point prices for new sales and points assignments should be done per retail price of rooms. They should not adjust what points but you yesrnover year. This incentivized you to buy early and keep your contract to get the better price
Thank you for discussing this. I’m considering buying DVC and it’s good to hear the history of point charts and hear your experiences.
If you purchase DVC which I grossly recommend as a direct and resale member you will be saving money, period. (Regardless of choosing direct or resale options.) DVC is great, some people have entitlement issues. This was a legal modification out of fairness based off of member's feedback.
While some people may conclude that DVC members have "entitlement" issues, when they really just want to get what they have paid for and what they were told when they signed their contract.
@@lizcolombia57 To repeat - it was an *ILLEGAL* modificiation which resulted in the 2022 Point Charts for September 2022 being revised.
(If it had been a legal modification to increase the points as they did, the revision of point charts downward would create regulatory issues around selling too many points such that some owners would never be able (mathmatically) to find a villa to book anywhere in the DVC system.) They are obligated to keep the system in balance.
I'd like to take a moment to say that DVC said they wanted to make this change last year, they didn't, and that they will continue to "assess" in coming days/years
Shout out to the complainers - DVC tried to scam the owners but decided in August 2021 to revise the point charts for Sept 2022 to avoid regulatory consequences.
The 2022 Point Charts are now much more in balance with prior years. That is great news!
Unfortunately, we have to keep an eye out going forward for more shady dealings going forward but we can always hope they have learned their lesson...
Question is... what are you going to do about it?
DVC members have no leverage.
Two words... class action
My spring break trip for end of March is booked. Seems to me they are dragging their feet so points stay are they are through Easter season? You can not say you value members without showing it. It is hard to trust DVC if you see reason after reason not too.
Very angry to hear them try to pull this crap again
And just when you thought you had enough points. Time to strive for the 2,000+ point club!
And for all the people that used to criticize me for pushing resale only on the Facebook group. This^^ discussion is why! Don't pay the DVC premium! Resale only!
Good or bad thank you always for the info
What about the 50% borrowing?
Still at the 50% borrowing limit, sadly.
I'm not following. What's the issue?
The number of points sold for a resort is fixed and the number of points in the point chart for that resort (for all villas for the whole year) starts off basically equivalent. For example, lets say DVC sold 5 million points for Resort A.
Ten years on, maybe Disney decides they want higher profits so they increase the point charts so that there are an extra 50,000 points in the 2022 point chart to book resort A. The owners use all of their 5 million pts to book Resort A for 2022 but now there are villas still available (50,000 points worth)...which Disney is free to book for cash rentals to pad their bottom line. No cost - all profit. The owners continue to pay 100% of the resort's operating costs but now there are 50,000 points worth of rooms which they cannot book.
(And yes, if you need an extra 50 points to book at the higher point costs, DVC can foreclose or ROFR a contract to sell you an add-on contract at direct prices to make a little more money.)
These comments come from a misunderstanding of how the points work. All of the TOTAL points stays the same. What they are doing is taking points from different seasons AND putting them into another season. THEN they are taking them from one room category another category. The total points will still be the same.
That is what they are SUPPOSED to do. Increase points here and decrease points over there. But that is not what they did for 2022.
The number of points sold for a resort is fixed and the number of points in the point chart for that resort (for all villas for the whole year) should be basically equivalent. For example, lets say DVC sold 5 million points for Resort A.
Ten years on, maybe Disney decides they want higher profits so they increase the point charts so that there are an extra 50,000 points in the 2022 point chart to book resort A. The owners use all of their 5 million pts to book Resort A for 2022 but now there are villas still available (50,000 points worth)...which Disney is free to book for cash rentals to pad their bottom line. No cost - all profit.
(And yes, if you need an extra 50 points to book at the higher point costs, DVC can foreclose or ROFR a contract to sell you an add-on contract at direct prices to make a little more money.)
Disney's greed is mind boggling!
It is disappointing that Dvc was trying to do this to us. I also feel that dvc member services is slipping too. The last few times I called members services, I've had nothing but utter rudeness from their customer service department. I've had them speaker the last two times calling and even my husband made a comment on how unprofessional the agent was on the phone. I'm a little disillusioned from my whole experience as DVC member.
They are basically reaping the benefits of being locked into a bilateral agreement.
Could Lex be behind this?
Glad im not the only person who thinks Bob looks like Lex Luther.
Thanks.
24:30 - 24:36 LOL
Crazy crap or shady shit
Potato Potato
We are DVC and if it’s legal then it is what is If people aren’t happy then sell your DVC Since the last year we are so great full for the privilege life we have 👍😃
Legal doesn't make it moral or ethical. DVC is supposed to a member-oriented.
I appreciate all of you that are looking out for the rest of us! ✊
Disney will just need to try harder next time, and they will try!