Bet you don't know where the Shelby GT350 name came from - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 7
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- “Ford versus Ferrari” is a great film that got most of the important details right, but it’s not a documentary. And some of the cool stories about the street cars didn’t make the cut. In this episode, Jason and Derek discuss some cool history about the original Shelby cars, including the homologation-special Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 - and how it really only lasted one year before Shelby realized that people said they wanted a race car for the street, but didn’t.
And then, of course, there’s the big-block, Police Interceptor GT500, which was a muscle car in the true sense. Meaning, of course, that it wasn’t meant for corners. How does that compare with the 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 - a car that bears the same legendary name.
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The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled 25-minute conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on UA-cam alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
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![2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 - Jason Cammisa on the Icons [UHD 4K]](/img/n.gif)
Can‘t wrap my head around how derek can remember all of those dates and numbers I could listen to him about old cars for hours straight 👌
It's nothing special
I haven't even finished watching yet, but... "I'm a little bit of a disruptor in large companies; I don't really work at that well..." I laughed out loud at this charming understatement.
You know me well, B, you know me well.
What's with the Eastern European formal wear?
It's comfortable and warm.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
gopnik
Slav wedding
typical slav suits :PP
The GT500 did come back in '07 with the 5.4L, facelift in '10, all aluminum 5.4L in '11 and '12. 2013 and 2014 came the "Trinity" 5.8L with 663hp you were referring to. Love the show guys, thank you for the content!!
Damn, i'm so happy you guys bring us a new , fresh, funny, and factual carshow/podcast !! We were in dire need of that!
Really, the icons video's are better than topgear, in every way!
Thanks alot jason & companions !!
Grtz from belgium
40 minutes?!?! YAS
Seing Jason in a video really made my day. Thank you my guy.
My absolute pleasure!
350 steps from Shelby's office.
Feet.
Very true! Thats what I read. He used the 350 steps from one point to another.
Would never even consider the 2020 GT 500 because it doesn't have a manual transmission option. I cannot stomach an automatic, no matter how fast it shifts; it's unacceptable. I couldn't care less how many hundredths of a second faster it would make me. At 33.37, you want "espresso con panna" (espresso with whipped cream), and do not let them daunt you with indignation or weird looks; insist and you shall be rewarded. If they have powdered chocolate, have them sprinkle it over the whipped cream.
That was the main reason for not getting the new gt500 instead I got the gt350 💯
As a person who owns a 2022 GT500 and a 2020 GT350R, I agree with pretty much everything said. 350 is an absolute maniac, and 500 is an absolute animal on track. 500 is stupid fast, and handles amazingly. 350 is truly special and pure. Nothing sounds like it. And I have had multiple GT3 and GT3RS.
Like the new room/or camera angle. Also cool swag. The thumbnail looked like you were both wearing race suits, and I thought "oh this'll be good!"
I'm with Camissa at 5:30. Movies need to be more grounded to reality in shit like this. Especially when this one was trying to be half documentary. I also didn't like the sped up car movements. They looked like Need for Speed 2 on the Playstation 1.
Love the show guys 👍
Thank you!!
@@JasonCammisa seemed like an eternity waiting for this episode... just from the last one.
@@blueridgegarage Sorry, we skipped a week - we were out shooting something very special. But fear not, we're back in business. :)
@@JasonCammisa it's wonderful to see you back.
@@JasonCammisa looking forward to every future episode. Happy Holidays!
Jason, you need to watch the British Touring Car Championship.
I would say ( own a 18 gt350).. that the 500 doesnt produce many reproducable times...its a one lap hero car...then no breaks and tires very quickly...unless u want to drag race, the 350 is the better car all round...street to track day and back to daily driving..over again
In all honesty i do prefer the manual trans especially that tremec...its out of site good, i know DCT is faster , but so what its No Damn FUN!!! ...good show guys...great job. Gt350 future classic!!!
This show is SO much like my friends & I shooting the shit about cars after a afternoon wrenching in your garage.
Only thing missing is a couple of beers...get these guys some beer and this show will be perfect.
My theory is that Shelby knew about the up coming 350 chevy and or wanted to make it bigger than the 327 number.
Funny, not knowing it at the time: I took the "Shelby approach" when I turned my 2000 Mustang GT into a Time Trials Champion. I barely touched the engine but went wild on the suspension, brakes, and steering going as far as electric brake cooling fans, added Panhard rod, spherical bearings instead of bushings, etc, etc. I left the outside appearance completely stock, just to pi$$ off my competition some more. :-) Absolutely hilarious out-cornering M3's and Lotuses in a stock looking Mustang.
Drive a big block without power steering and you’ll be begging for it back.
@33:07 what about the Shelby Daytona. It wasn't too far off from ground up right?
That's right, but it wasn't a road car, and I think only six were built. It was groundbreaking aerodynamically, really a very significant race car. It was also a Ferrari beater at Le Mans, winning the GT class against the previously dominant Ferraris just before the GT40 project came along. With those two cars, Shelby's small racing operation was directly responsible for ending Emperor Enzo Ferrari's reign at Le Mans. Not too bad for a former chicken rancher from rural Texas, with a sketchy ticker.
Hahahaha I feel Jason 100% on the gas pedal on the Mulsanne Straight, I HATE that stuff! It was a joke! But overall it was an enjoyable movie and it got me to learn more about that era (as a Porsche fan, Ford v. Ferrari used to be the thing that happened before Porsche came and beat them both 😉 ); I just wish Hollywood would stop messing up such boneheadedly basic details in racing movies, they do it EVERY time!
There was the 69 Shelby GT350 & 500. That was a new body style for that year. And that was the last time until 2006 that Ford used the Shelby name on their most powerful Mustang.
Well it is 2020 now and I wish more people to be as passionate on cars like you guys... and hope to see you doing this show for many many years !!
You guys should talk about the rotary engine.
We'd burn our apex seals after only 14 minutes tho! :)
@@JasonCammisa Ahh I see
07 GT500 and the 80's 4cyl turbo mustang was and SVO
It's quite true the brakes needed to be hot to perform without heavier than usual effort. However, the original equipment 775/15 Goodyear Blue Dot HP Power Cushion tires, though "state of the art" in 1965, most definitely had their shortcomings compared to "anything that's round and black" in 2020.
Honest to goodness, I don’t hit that notification bell for anybody. You guys just earned it. We’re over the moon to have you back Jason! And this new to me cat Derek is pretty cool too! I appreciate his 94 year old soul! I’ve been loathed by fellow millennials for my whole 28 actual years and have been known as 65 years old since I was 12-13
Mr. Tam hyphen Scott is right, there was a gt350 in 84. I believe it could be had with either the SVO 2.3 liter turbo or a 5.0. The SVO was a separate model and didn’t carry a Shelby name but had the 2.3 turbo.
Oh, I should add that Carroll Shelby had nothing to do with it.
The 80s turbo 4cyl Mustang was the SVO. As an aside SVO is a better name than SVT that replaced it.
350 comes from the fact that Carroll’s shops were 350 feet apart from each other
What was wrong with those old Mustang ads? Did I miss something? BTW: The 427 and 428 were both FEs but different in bore and stroke.
While we do talk a lot on Instagram I still wish you would have a discord style Podcast too where you can have people come online too. Similar to "Pain Killer Already" but I do enjoy seeing face to face conversations between two guys like you two who have experience/knowledge about these topics. I do watch/listen on 1.5x speed and it's like you are on SO MUCH cocaine
I disagree on the "sexism" of the adverts. They weren't saying anything about the girls being sexy. Hell they even said Sally was sensible and quiet. She did her job effectively with no fuss-- aka she's a good worker and an effective secretary. And the catchline was saying that you don't need to be the CEO to enjoy the cars. A secretary's salary can get you into a mustang.
So happy to hear you back and be able to listen to you on apple podcast 💪🏻
at 6:25 what you're looking for is rallycross
If I remember, the 396 was really a 402? Or started as a real 396 and became a 402 when engines were smogged to death.
first part is right.
@@ryanjamieson8779 Wrong. The 396 became 402's 1970, got one myself.
God those jackets are obnoxious!! The GT500 seems like the GT2 RS of the Mustang world, whereas the GT350 would be the GT3, and the GT350R would be the GT3 RS, in my eyes at least.
Considering the GT3 and GT3 RS are N/A and the GT2 RS has forced induction, your analogy makes more sense, I agree. Also, the way the GT500 came just about 1 or 2 years before the s550 goes out is closer to how the gt2 rs was launched.
This is a pretty good analogy!
Criticizing automotive sportswear while yourself wearing a white dress shirt and tie..................... Something about glass houses and rock throwing and all that, with some irony sprinkled in.
I guess i am in a minority. While i like looking at cars that look like racecars, i want a car that looks a bit more incospicuous and drives better than people think. ->Sleeper cars. I've got an old E63 (with the 6.2L V8) and although people who know about cars know what it is, for the majority of people it's just a big Mercedes-Benz and they don't look twice.
The funniest/most annoying racing movie tropes for me is the “forgotten gas pedal.”
Oh, what’s this?! A pedal for more speed?! I forgot I’m a professional at this!
Wait… what?! I have another gear?!
Good info and recommend Comer's book on the Shelby Mustang too.
147th like. This video will go over a million 100%
Gawd I hope so!
Nah, because people are dumb and all they want to know is: can I connect my newest phone in the Hyundai Venue? But, like you Sir, I do wish that this channel gets million of views because the content is sooooo great!!!!
JasonCammisa the rest of us too
Jason Cammisa would love 1990s era British BTCC racing
I can listen to these guys all day
It was the 2013-2014 gt500 that had 662hp. Motor trend on an extremely hot day got it to 196mph. It’s fair to say with a cooler day it would have made the extra power to get it 200.
Wow dude. First modern GT500 was in 2007 on the first S197 platform , 5.4 Supercharged Iron block, then was refreshed in 2010, in 2011 when it got an all Aluminum 5.4 , then in 2013 was the trinity 5.8L 662 HP car.
The GT500 that came after the "Terminator" Cobra had a weaker engine as far as strength and they ended up using making it a bit better in 2010 by all using the KR engine as a last attempt to get some sales since they really weren't as popular. These were not "Shelby" GT500s as they were not associated with him at all nor the SVT group. The ended up bringing Shelby back on board after the 2011 didn't sell well and the Shelby GT500 came back in full force.
no Shelby was back involved in 2004 .. you wouldn't have the 2007 GT500 with his name on it
Love the format guys , I really like Jason’s points of view and also commentary, I hope you guys do more car reviews as well and maybe take a couple of road trips , I would love to watch the adventure and review of the cars ....yes I know to much top gear / grand tour but I really like Jason’s opinions and humor
Third comment but I agree the GT350 is more like the original GT350 as a more hardcore track guy vehicle to enjoy driving. The GT500 is a middle finger to everyone to take the vehicle to the most extreme they can while still being a roadcar. It's a ZL1 LE competitor
Out of curiosity and a somewhat related note to the Shelby movie, did you see Rush a few years ago? If so, what were your thoughts on that one?
I did see it. I remember liking it - but loving it. I cant remember why, though - I should probably re-watch!
JasonCammisa I personally absolutely loves Rush (actually more than Ford v Ferrari, which is still great) but I’m definitely biased being Austrian 😉
In reality, Hollywood felt they had to make the relationship between Hunt and Lauda more interesting by portraying Lauda this hard edged angry guy that didn’t get on with Hunt, which in reality isn’t true. Lauda was more likable and they got on well as close friends.
Third time listening/watching it today.
This may have been posted here, but Derek was right. Ford slapped the GT350 moniker on an 80's mustang. It could be had with either the SVO turbo 4 or the 5.0/302. It was the 20th anniversary edition. It was just a sticker package basically. Shelby was not involved and I believe he sued Ford.
Loveeeee this format with you guys! Deff prefer listening with a video
Yes! Longer ep!
Do you guys have matching helmets for the fancy jackets?
No but strangely we had matching underwear on that day.
Is the podcast version come a day later? Can we get a simultaneous release to all platforms?
Nope, they're all simultaneous - Apple takes a minute to list it, but if you're subscribed, it should have showed up immediately.
Thank you Jason, but I prefer to see your sandler face
I'm sorry to hear that. :P
@@JasonCammisa He meant Ducky.
Goes Like Hell Somemore (very very Shelby)
COUPLE GOALS 😍
😂
YES YES YES PODCAST UNGH
Your right, but I’m not spending 40 min to find out.
More people need to know about this channel
I agree with Jason, modern racing is just boring and way too clinical. Even Le Mans, which is so so sad...
Best racing era was 90s touring car racing, particularly BTCC. Bring that back, and people may watch racing again...
If you can, try to watch a bit of the 24 hours of the Nürburgring. There are around 200 cars on the track at the same time if i remember correct, anything from GT-3 cars down to a Renault Clio or a Golf GTI. Lot's of action there.
@@nirfz I watch Le Mans series, Blancpain, etc. I agree there is lots of cars on the track and some action, but hardly comparable to 90d BTCC.
@@ChaosphereIX I vaguely remember 90's touring car racing (at least the DTM as this was shown in my country too) but in todays times the 24h on the Nürburgring is the most exiting race to watch i can think of. Additionally to the number of different cars, weather always plays a big role, i remember a hailstorm on a small part of the track while it was bone dry on the rest.
The 65’ GT350 was too extreme and raw and now is coveted for it’s purity? Looks like the 2018 Manual Camaro ZL1 1LE will be a buy and hold.
It happens often. A car that's "too extreme" when it was new winds up being the perfect classic car for occasional use. Hold onto that Alfa 4C.
500 was the common next size up for a motorcycle engine.
Holy shit, did you guys forget the Daytona? Contemporary, ground up car, which many believed would have been faster than the GT40 if Ford brass had allowed it to achieve its potential. They hamstrung it so as not to step all over their baby.
Man??!!
I hated F Vs F just because of that..
Thank you!
The 427 were used to complete with the hemis from Dodge in the NHRA and of course NASCAR. The engine was called the cammer. Shelby had nothing to to with the SVO OR the Cobra Mustang.
I liked the movie, no it wasn’t historical accurate but it’s Hollywood not much you can do about it. The funny thing is when I went to see it, I was the youngest person watching the movie and I’m 52!
350 foot or yards from the shop they brought the car to for paint if I'm remembering it correctly
According to the book (link in the description btw) it was the distance from the race-car shop to the street-car shop. But yes, same idea. :)
@@JasonCammisa that sounds more like it yeah. I know it was something with a shop where more/other work was done but couldn't for the life of me remember what it was haha
+1. .. Carroll Shelby walked 350 footsteps ...
Outstanding episode
Love listening....great show!!!
Loved the show as usual!
Another great episode.
You should sit further apart and avoid your hands being in danger of touching at all times.
Bet that 427 woodie wagon had awesome traction compared to a covered wagon with 200 bhp!
350 feet between Shelby's buildings.
You guys are a better duo than PB&J.
Strangely, PB&J has been an ongoing thread of the past week. Are you bugging our office?
Haha my girlfriend, which watches the show with me, suggested it.
@@GabrielAlexand3r She has great taste in shows and food. And guys, obviously, since she's with someone who watches the Carmudgeon Show! :)
Ray Romano + Adam Sandler= Jason Cammisa
WRONG AGAIN I ALREADY KNEW!!!! lmao
Can you put the show on Podbean app please
“Discount Adam Sandler?” Don’t sell yourself short: you’re actually funny.
350 steps to shelbys office
Ford versus Ferrari was ok, but it was pretty disappointing from an accuracy standpoint after how brilliant Rush was.
For the record, "Rush" was better than "Ford vs. Ferrari." And, yeah, the changes in reality turned me off. Miles was far more part of the team than the movie shows.
So basically, new GT500 and GT350 are the equivalent of the Porsche GT2 vs the GT3?
Is discount Adam Sandler going to show up in a gold lamé Corvette jacket, someday? ; - )
I had the same objections regarding the Hollywoodization of the Ford v. Ferrari racing scenes. Ridiculous.
How'd you know I have one of those?
I can't tell if these guys actually like each other lol
When you wrote the title of this episode, you did not count on one thing. The one thing was a man who cannot retain information that could be of use to the human race. However if its trivia about transportation then step aside and watch me go. Before watching this show I am presenting my knowledge of what it meant. I have not seen Ford vs Ferrari but know the story fairly well. If I am wrong with my answer, I will take my punishment.
Please God let my dumb knowledge of all things cars, pull me through again. I am dumbing this down to save space: No name yet for Shelby's new car and Ford was getting fed up the delay. This time Ford would wait no more and Carroll was pressured for the name. He asked a buddy how far his door to the barn area, and was told about 350 feet. Shelby Mustang 350GT was born. (Sorry guys but 350 was not an engine of Ford unless you mean 351 Windsor or Cleveland.) I was very impressive at parties until that bastard Google came along.
The 2000 mph car were the 2013/2014. 😉
OHHHH you used my comment from Liebermans post. Except I called Sandler a discount you.
Bet I do...
Respectful comment
Hey Jason,can you use more foul language ?
I'm reluctant to see the movie. I've never seen a good racing movie. They just piss me off.
Le Mans with Steve McQueen and Rush are pretty good.
350 ways to eat an Twinkie
Jason, current GT350 or your Elise? GO...
Oh you need to give me more info. For what - a daily? A weekend fun car? A track rat? A sex-partner magnet? A tool to run people over whilst sideways leaving a Cars & Coffee?
@@JasonCammisa side-chick weekend car, dude. One or two track days a year. Mostly backroads and leaving C&C without lifting.
@@oldcarproblems3332 100% Elise. Less than half the price - and half the weight. Which means tires, brakes, and other consumables last twice as long. The GT350 is genuinely an epic ride. But the Lotus is fully depreciated (bonus!) and far, far more raw. I'd say the Mustang in a second for daily use, but not much can beat an Elise for side-chick thrills. It's no contest.
@@JasonCammisa Your points are noted. Used GT350s can be had in the low-40s, so the price delta isn't quite halt, but I get it. imo, Fords Voodoo is the best sounding engine EVER, and the S550 Mustang is the best looking since the Fox. Yeah, the fucking fox! I'm already married to very reliable, drama-free Land Cruiser, so my side-chick needs to be a real skank, you know? That said, I'll shop for an Elise. Thanks for your input and I appreciate your honesty in a world where most channels regurgitate the same shit over-and-over ( I won't name any names) and provide zero integrity or honest content.
OMG...watch the 24 hour war...!!!
GT-H not terribly valuable..... ok. Usually they go for 100-400k
discount adam sandler 😆😂🤣
'bout tree fiddy.