So what do you think of solar roofs? Go to brilliant.org/Undecided to sign up for free. And also, the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual premium membership. If you liked this, check out Exploring How This Plant Could Replace Concrete: ua-cam.com/video/mx7g79Jh66k/v-deo.html
I like the idea, but the people selling them are the type of sleazy scumbags who sell garbage on infomercials. When you have to resort to those types of tactics it's because you know the product is not worth anywhere near what you're trying to sell it for. Also, a 30 year guarantee only works if the company still exists in 30 years. Good luck with that.
Clay roof tiles never have to be replaced. I have 2 sloping roofs, one facing west and the other east. I waited until I had put up 2 rooftop dormers with flat roofs and installed the solar panels on that all facing south.
The only thing holding solar roofing off is the difference between R&D scale and consumer product manufacturing. They simply cannot make the tiles/panels fast enough for the demand already out there. The companies involved, including Tesla, all need to look at major capitol investment for manufacturing at scale. Tesla already knows how to do this. I think the only problem here is that Elon has too much on his plate and hasn't put the time or resources into it to make it happen.
My only complaint with your video is the touting of things like 30 year guarantees. Very few companies are around 30 years later so I would not put too much stock into those claims. For example LG recently announced they are leaving the pv panel market.
I have been working on building a new home for the last 2 years. I immediately thought of Tesla roofing and put down a $100 deposit. They gave me a quote of $50,000 for the Tesla roof, $40,000 more than a roof from my builder. When permitting was approved I sent the final drawings to Tesla and the new quote was $100,000. I got my deposit back. I also had reached out to GAF for their solar roof. A year ago they said we don't install any new solar roofs in Georgia at this time. Then they said they would install in Georgia but despite repeated attempts to reach them I could never get GAF to respond to me. Probably too much interest though I had talked to a GAF roofer locally who said he would love to work with me to get experience installing the GAF solar roof. But the house now has a $10,000 roof on it and I will look at adding solar panels instead of a solar roof. I tried but just couldn't do it.
PV systems are hard to sell in North Georgia. The PV sales process can not sell their PV system cheaper than the existing power companys. We should be thankful that the dam in Buford is generating cheap HYDRO power .
Wonky lead times like this are to be expected for early adopters of a new tech so I don’t fret too much about that. The doubling in price from Tesla though…that seems really ridiculous. I wouldn’t think too much of it, but that company in particular seems to have encountered this with multiple products (model 3, cyber truck, etc.) This is what ultimately makes me highly skeptical of every Tesla announcement these days. They seem to care more about getting people hyped than about actually delivering on their promises. I’ll gladly buy any of their products once they’re actually on the market for a while and have a proven track record, but I won’t be preordering their stuff any time soon.
Pretty much sums up the current state of solar roofs in a nutshell across the country. I can barely convince my installer to use the new IQ8 microinverters, and they are hardly unproven.
Traditional solar panels have the advantage of allowing you to more easily start small with just a few panels, and then add more as money becomes available.
Yup. Also, you can add a bit more if your electricity demand increases. Like if you switch to an EV or an electric range/oven. If the efficiency rating of the tiles were the same as the panels then I’d be a bit more excited about them.
This notion is complicated by the permitting process, the utility approval process, and the sizing of the feed wires to your panels. Its not too easy to just add a few solar panels even if you do it yourself.
That’s true for most people, but for farmers and businesses that usually have multiple buildings but limited land to put solar on, roof solar is a great boon… when it becomes available…
Toyota's 2023 Prius offers a $610 Solar Panel Roof Upgrade to passively charge the car while it's parked outside - really wish Tesla can offer something similar for their new EV's instead of making people purchase solar home system with powerwalls.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
I live off grid in Canada and when deciding on my solar I had to put in many considerations. One of the factors that was a deciding one that I feel was of high value when it came to getting the full production all year round. I pole mounted my solar panels for easier access to clear snow in early morning and fill battery banks by early afternoon on a not optimal sun day. If you have some land and you live where snow will be an issue for many months I recommend access to those panels.
Great point. The insistence is that ALL of these systems NEED to be on the roof, or a part of the roof. If you have limited space or building restrictions that may be your only option. The panels that everyone thinks are bullet proof and tough as nails, are fragile (to an extent) and would be easier to maintain if they were on the ground at a manageable height. These systems serve you best when you have the space and the knowledge concerning the maintenance and repair or replacement of them. It sounds like you have what you need, where you need them. If most people who thought they knew alot about these systems found out how little they actually knew, it would be a rude awakening for them.
@@percyfaith11 A single solar panel does not put out a killoWatt. Depending on manufacture and size, 150-300Watts is what a single panel outputs with optimal sun exposure.
Here in the Netherlands it is (nearly) all regular large solar panels. Solar tiles are rare here. 22 solar panels with 9 kW converter and installation cost me about € 7.500
Good setup Jan! Here in Arizona, USA, I have a 10 panel 3KW system which cost $9,000 after rebates. The system also came with a Level 2 car charger, but no battery. My solar production goes to the power company which credits me at the same rate it charges for the power they supply me. Fair deal. I enjoy the savings, but money aside, I love the deal because of the benign environmental impact. Hope you do too. Best to you in the Netherlands.
@@autobootpiloot In Germany its full retard. Because its crazy bureaucracy most people opt for zero net output and buy power from the grid if the sun does not shine. Also above 10 kW you have to form a company to tax your solar production.
@@Morkvonork Taxing people for energy converted by solar panels they've already paid for..... 😒 Is it any wonder fossil fuel lobbyists so easily get their way so often?
Yup I do it also for the environment🙂 After about two years of use I need to buy around 1.500 kWh annually. My converter has around 2.,5 kW capacity left so maybe I will buy 6 additional panels to become zero on the meter 👍😏
Years ago when Tesla had their calculator website it was estimated my Tesla roof would cost $110,000 in sunny south Florida. For comparison, an architectural shingle roof was $16,000. My yearly electric bill was about $2k a year. I bet my insurance company would like a chat with a new $100k in hurricane country. Even my property tax office would probably want a chat about a $100k improvement to the home.
@@geraldfrost4710 A lot depends on the roof size, but angle and obstacles are a factors too. Some quick math, Florida power at $0.12/kwh comes to about 45 kwh/day. Given a 5 hour/day solar equivalent, they would need at least a 9 kw system. With the losses of ac/dc conversion, storage round trip, ... another 10-20% should be budgeted. The video quoted Luma at $4.50/w. For that price the roof would be around 22kw. Call it double what is needed and sell the rest back. You aren't going to get the same rate for net negative power, nor get negative taxes and fees. Say you get $0.06 / kwh, it would be worth about $1k/yr. You will still need to make up a base hookup fee, so that might cost $200, or so, per year. Year end net should be around $800, with very large error bars.
So you basically don't break even until 55 years in and even then...you'll need to replace components after a few decades. You won't recoup any of your investment within your lifetime. Seems like a waste of money to be honest.
@@paulogden7417 That's because it didn't cost you $100K. It all comes down to how much the initial investment is. After a certain dollar amount it becomes pointless.
Efficiency has to be factored in as well . Depending on your homes' layout buying a whole roof can be a waste of money compared to a traditional set of panels that are oriented properly. Its really important to compare different systems and your specific requirements to maximize ROI.
Exactly. I’m happy to have more options on the table just to get more quotes. I’m sure there are homes where solar shingles will make sense while others will want panels. More options is almost never a bad thing.
Yeah, the further from the equator you are, the more one side of a solar roof is a total waste. I do solar installation in the midwest for a living, and we don't put panels on the north side of a house. You're just blowing money on space that won't generate enough to ever offset its cost.
North facing roofs would be installed with normal shingles/slates. South facing with solar slates. They might look different from your personal drone but you can never see both sides from the ground so would anyone care?
Thank you for making this video! I’ve been researching solar panels vs. roofs, as I’d love to have a solar roof, but my standard roof still has an estimated 25 years on it. I appreciate you laying everything out and highlighting the industry-leading manufactures-as well as differentiating them from each other. Once again, just as when I bought my Model 3, your channel has proved invaluable!
Not sure if people will realize that the picture of the "house in Iowa" at 10:54 is literally the house in Grant Wood's painting "American Gothic" with the old farmer with the pitchfork and his daughter standing in front. This iconic house can be visited in Eldon, Iowa.
Solar isn't worth it and takes decades to break even, and by then you'll need to replace them anyways with whatever the new and more efficient technology is hot. They also degrade extremely fast and make your house look very ugly and harder to sell.
With the problem of tiles heating up, I wonder if they could be combined with a solar water heater sollution to make use of the heat and remove it from the tiles. Though, a "Water Cooled Roof" sounds like a Linus Tech Tips project.
IIRC Linus has said that he found something like that to be a possible project, I don't know if he was planning to do it himself or had found actual tiles that double up like that though.
It is definitely possible, but often isn't worth the extra cost, especially considering that replacing a broken tile/panel is a much more difficult job generally.
If you're in a rural area, don't stick the panels on the roof. Rural implies that you have open land. Install them on unused land, and add a power shed. That's a shed where you install your inverters & batteries. Also, you can use lower cost solar panels, and older & cheaper batteries. Yes, they're bulkier, but its not moving, so who cares. Its all off the shelf stuff. And people in rural areas know how to use tools, so there's savings on labor cost. Do it yourself. Bet you wish they still had shop class, in school.
No need for batteries, though, if you’re connected to a utility. For most people, I’d advise getting a simple, grid-tie only system. If money isn’t a concern, or there’s high, time of use utility bills, the newer, smart batteries could be worth looking at.
@@kaitlyn__L, agreed. I’m in CA, where interest in smart batteries was pretty low till PG&E started having scheduled blackouts during times of high fire hazard. Also, time of use rates finally got high enough that an expensive smart battery or two began to make financial sense.
@@adlockhungry304 oof. I can understand why they do that, the huge relays can spark sometimes, but ouch. Plus as wildfire seasons get worse and worse with the whole climate thing that’s just going to happen more and more :( In the UK where I live wildfires of course not a factor (…yet?), although the feed-in tariff is 3-4p/kWh while the usage tariff is like… well it was 12-15p but recently it’s like at least 20. So if you have enough battery capacity it can pay for itself versus the tariff disparity, plus of course you can still get feed-in payments when the battery is full but the sun is still up. But regular power-cuts is pretty much reserved for the super-rural houses (of course that’s still a sizeable number of people it could help; even keeping your freezer from thawing in a powercut can save £50-200 in groceries after all).
Had to replace a roof last year, still no good options for an affordable solar roof and I have plenty of land for ground mount so all my solar is ground mounted. $8k for a new roof, was installed in 2 days with a 25 year warranty. 10kw of ground mounted solar installed myself for less than $4k and maintenance is easy. For those that only have space for roof mount the prices still need to come down but a new standard roof and standard roof mounted solar is probably cheaper than any of these solar roof options until the pricing and install becomes more mainstream. The pricing is still very much early adopter territory.
Here in Cali a standard metal roof install is “$1500/ square” God knows what solar roof would be. We have off grid. Panels up on the hill. I live in a geodesic dome and only a few panels do more than I need, even in the woods with intermittent shade all day. I like the shade
Ground mount isn't practical for anyone on less than a multi-acre property, and honestly it's still kind of problematic for other reasons even if you do have plenty of wide-open unshaded space. Honestly I'd recommend putting it on anything solid and elevated, even if you have to build a whole new shed, barn or awning to do it. Right now it depends where you live, but a solar roof is roughly the same price as a roof + solar in my area. They need to bring costs down enough to compete with those people pondering an upgrade on one or the other.. like people that want solar but their roof probably has 5-10 years of life left, or people that just need a roof and can look at it as a chance for a discounted electric bill too. Right now it feels a bit wasteful to make the leap.
@@EileenTheCr0w I only have an acre and a half and even with that it's plenty of space but obviously ground mount doesn't work for everyone. I would also need to remove 3 or 4 trees to do roof mounted and I would rather keep the trees. The shade they provide my house is worth it. Cost for ground mount framing doesn't have to be that expensive depending on where you live. I used helical screws so no concrete involved and it can all be easily removed if need be down the road and recycled.
It's amazing that GAF didn't just make matching shingles that you can cut to go with the solar shingles. If they did that, their system would really blend in with the roof and not look so slapped on 11:31.
The best engineering solutions are always the one's that have the least compromise but when you're asking a product to be two distinctly different things- a roof and a solar power generator- compromise is inevitable.
Flying car anyone? I think it should be possible to better integrate conventional panels into a roof. My roof is basically an asphalt membrane with concrete tiles over it. Those concrete tiles act as a shield against UV and abrasion damage for the membrane. Water will largely run over them but they are certainly not a waterproof layer. I cannot see why they can't be supplanted by solar panels. The issue might be with a need for free air flow under the panels but that should be achievable. The panels should be able to sit a little bit off the impermeable membrane. American house design needs to change to make sure there are ample, clean roof areas facing South, and potentially put in panel standoffs as part of construction.
@@errcoche Will people want a complete roof that will need to be replaced every 15-25 years? Rooves are covered in things like slate, steel concrete for a reason. They last.
@@alunjones2550 Depends where you are. Panels are generally warranted for 25 years and American shingle roofs don't last that long. My US concrete tile roof lasted 30 years
I’ve been a solar installer for 20 years and always been skeptical of the various solar tiles/shingles I’ve seen over the years, but a couple of these products seem as though they could be promising. I’ll call myself ‘cautiously optimistic’ now. :)
@@fparent, From a purely design and practical application standpoint, the GAF energy module seems promising because the wiring is accessible from above. A tremendous weakness of most solar tiles is that they’re plugged together under the tiles. This makes troubleshooting the electrical, replacing faulty or damaged wiring, or replacing a faulty module much, much easier. There are still some downsides: A). Who the heck is GAF energy? What does a 20 or 30 year warranty amount to if the company is here one day and gone the next? B) If GAF (a name that seems doomed to failure, btw) does stick around, are they really going to maintain enough back stock of their original product to replace like for like when honoring their warranty 20 years down the line? It’s very possible they could do this by making sure their new products follow the same mechanical form factor and don’t stray too far off the same electrical specifications, such that they can send the current model they offer in place of your faulty, older model. That’s possible, but what assurances do you have of their future course of action in a world of rapidly changing technology? Sorry, I gotta go, or I’d address one or two others. Maybe later, if I remember. :)
this is basically the same reason why i haven't got solar either, it's either tesla or some unknow people, it's why i hate certain markets because then your just in a market with companies you never heard of
@@knightwolf3511, LG and Sonnen are two large, well known electronics companies that come to mind, who make this type of battery. If they do leave the home battery market, at least you’re more likely to receive support on an existing product, unlike a company founded for the purpose of selling such batteries; if they go away, so does the warranty and service support. An example of that with inverters, and now PV panels, apparently, would be Sharp. Sharp made their own PV inverter back in the early to mid 2000’s, but ultimately decided it wasn’t worth it for them to be in that market. It was only about five years ago when I could no longer get parts to repair those inverters. Hard to be sure, as there are no 100% safe bets, but with Sonnen and LG I reckon there’s a better chance of receiving that type of support even if they ultimately bail on the market.
@@adlockhungry304 GAF Energy is a Standard Industries company, I wouldn't worry too much about them disappearing anytime soon. GAF is one of the largest roofing companies in North America, their solar shingle is an evolution of their EverGuard solar membrane which has been around for at least 10 years. We were considering the Tesla roof (own a Model Y and will be purchasing a second one this year) but leaning now towards the GAF. Our 19 year old Florida roof is in need of replacing, so seems like a good time to do it!
My experience was overall good. It did take a lot longer than I would have like to get in installed. I put the deposit down in October 2020, the roof was installed in June 2021 and active in December 2021. Its an 8.7 KW system with two power walls. The total cost after rebates was 36k.
Actually the 1st integrated solar roof was installed by my company CSI in 1979. It was solar thermal not photovoltaic. The solar panel was laid between rafters 24 inches on center generally about 16 ft long. We did several hundred of these systems generally 300 to 600 sf for space heating in New England. Worked great. My 5000sf office in NH was 100 percent solar for over 25 years
@@boblatkey7160 the meaning of your original comment is extremely unclear, it seems like an argument in favor of solar shingles. I said "roof + panels", not just panels. It's not fair to compare the price of solar shingles to just the panels, half the job of the solar shingles is to be a roof.
The solar roof tiles have an air gap. Meanwhile, if you have issues with keeping the roof cool in hot areas, the best fix is half pound foam. It lasts forever, is easily installed in a single day and surprisingly cost effective. I did it on my house in Arizona. It’s also a superb deterrent against any water leaks in your roof (which makes a lot of sense if you want to move to solar panels later on).
Tesla Solar Roof Owner in Massachusetts. Went with Solar Roof because the shingles had to be replaced within a couple of years. was definitely a process to get it. But in the end it was worth it.
Our solar dealer in Massachusetts talked us away from Solar Roof and stick with panels because of the consideration that the solar roof wasn't a great idea with the harsh winters in Massachusetts. Have you found that to be a concern thus far?
@@ToddRafferty My install was completed in November. One major thing about the solar roof is that the snow slides off the roof, so I have mini Avalanches when we get lots of snow. It can be loud/alarming, but it is also a good thing since a covered up roof wont produce electricity. The pitch of my roof is not steep at all, so if you had a steep roof pitch, I'm sure the snow wouldn't build up as much and would slide off sooner. But going with the Solar roof I think I was able to fit a larger system on my home vs going with traditional panels. All in all, I've been very happy with my systems performance so far. Not sure how our harsh winters would effect the solar roof negatively. The Obvious possible downside is hail damage, but there's a video on golf ball sized hail in Texas that did no damage to the solar roof.
We are happy with our Tesla Solarroof. It produces a lot of electricity and the cost was within $1000 or a replacement tile roof, which is the standard in our neighborhood and was the target from the beginning with the Solarroof. We also added a couple of Powerwalls for which there was a discounted install since they were installing the inverters and solar wiring anyway. So far the roof and Powerwalls have performed as advertised and reduced our power bill dramatically. We pay about $30/mo, most of which is the grid interconnect charges. In previous summer months, we have paid close to $500 because the high temps drove us into the higher cost tier rates. The installation was done well even though it was started in March 2020 right before the pandemic hit and the county stopped all work mid-install. Thankfully, solarroof installs start with putting down a waterproof membrane, and that finished install just as the stop work order came down. After a month they let the Tesla team come back and completed the installation.
That sounds awesome. What company did you use, did you reach out directly to Tesla or a local roofing company? I'm contemplating going that route as I will likely need a new Tile Roof after Hurricane Ian in SWFL and it sounds like the cost maybe very similar
Even if all roof was fitted with solar tiles when it is built new or renovated it would take 50 to 60 years before most roofs would be solar. That means we are still in the early adopter stage for at least another 10 years. When you add that up front cost will be higher it would be a miracle if 1 % of the roofs built the next 10 years are built with solar tiles, but it will still be a multi billion marked that need many suppliers.
This is why more places need to pass laws to mandate all new construction have solar. We can’t leave it up to the free market to decide when to switch. Not with our emissions where they currently are…
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet no. That’s asinine. That prices more people out of the market and would serve only to drive up costs. Solar still doesn’t pay off everywhere. For me it will be a 10+ year breakeven - I can afford this, but in absolutely no way should that be mandatory.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet Sound good, but it do not work without a major subsidize support. If not directly it will be needed for building infrastructure. Already many areas have trouble with the amount of back-feed to the grid a real sunny day give. Large scale storage is also needed and it cost a lot. Based on raw material demand we have probably already seen the lowest prize on solar installment, unless they can find a lot cheep way to produce solar panels.
Correct. Given that most homes waste 80-90% of their energy, most of each installation is just to get a discount on all that waste, like throwing most of a giant Costco toilet paper purchase out the window on the way home. Stupid, right? What's the ROI of a flatscreen TV or stone countertops or a new car? Generally zero or less. ROI on energy efficiency is highest, and cutting the fat and eliminating waste moves the PV ROI to just a few years. Efficiency and then PV. Doing the wrong things right is still wrong, right?
@@DK-vx5co That you would survive if you did not use some energy is not the same as it is wasted. Also what is wasted will be very different around the world. What you put into the calculation is often more a philosophic then a practical question.
my biggest issue with solar roof shingles is what happens in 10 years when a panel breaks? Is the company still in business? do they still make the tile you bought, or do you have to make do with a different tile, if that's even possible?
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 The shingles are mini solar panels essentially that mount to a track like a normal solar panel. The process is the same.
We are 3 years from building our remote dream home while still close enough to town to zip in for whatever, whenever, without making it an excursion. We're Roof Tiles &/or ground based solar arrays. Here are some considerations: * We can't chose a product until we find the land (our design is flexible) * We've researched solar companies from the US to Germany * No to a deposit as we may find they won't install in our location when finalized * Lining up contractors to install may not line up w/ our build schedule * We're told different stories as to what our best options are We will be SOLAR/BATTERY/COMBINATION ONLY & fully independent of land based power/run on solar while charging the batteries by day/run on batteries ALL night We want redundancy built in so if we are servicing part of the array, we will never be without power. We're told; You can't do that by some, while others want to work with us. Candie ^..^
You're in a great spot. Looking for land and the home hasn't been designed/built yet is exciting. I work for a company that designs high performance homes (think Net Zero) and does solar. The envelope of the home for efficiency is so important. When you start talking to builders the make or break areas of your home are going to be the foundation and the roof. Most homes are built with bad Thermal Bridging. So even if they have insulation between the studs the heat/cold is coming right through the frame and roof. When the wife and I build a home the foundation and roof have to be thermally bridged. The expense there pays off in needing a smaller HVAC system, less solar panels and more comfortable environment. A lof of home builds here in Arkansas are going to with higher end metal roofs so that they don't need to factor in a roof replacement. Co-worker just did a ground mount system since he's got the yard for it. New home build would be pretty trivial to trench from the ground array to your meter. All comes down to the aesthetics really. I'm excited for your family
Great update, Matt. Recall that a yr ago I really needed a new roof but after contract and just before install, Tesla raised my Solar roof price by 60%. I installed asphalt roof, no solar. Now a yr later, Tesla has offered my original price, too late. Tesla is an OK company, but mitigate the frustration by knowing up front that they have an “over promise and under deliver” business model. Same goes for Cybertruck.
I honestly admire how much Tesla has been able to push the envelope and embarrass bigger companies into doing more climate friendly things…but I don’t like them as a company (due to how much they overhype stuff) and think Elon is a very bad manager.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet Find any company or group of companies that even comes close to Elon's companies then let us know if they're bad at management.
@@BoleDaPole Tesla not even in top 50 of worlds largest companies based on annual revenue. But I was talking about product delivery, over promise yet under deliver.
Excellent Review!! Spent a year messing with Tesla… complicated 7,000 sf tile roof in Florida. Our PM was a young lady from… Las Vegas? At the Tesla only had black systems… hard to get through HOA… then price changed. And then we canceled. Our roof is 22 years old and has maybe 5 years of useful life remaining. I thought this was the perfect time to go solar… need the technology to catch up…. Efficiency needs to be in 20% range to make viable for large homes…
People need to avoid any homes in areas with HOAs, so much so that HOAs will end up lowering home values rather than raising them. That should be the goal.
I'm personally excited to try designing and putting together my own Solar Garden, using solar panels over rows of shade plants and making a tilting array to help follow the sun. I was inspired by one of your previous videos showing farm lands doubling up the land usage.
I understand that a ground-mounted PV system can get the federal tax credit also. So, if there happens to be plants under, or an outdoor seating area, so much the better.
I was so excited to learn something from this video (as a solar roofing specialist in the residential market) and walked away so incredibly disappointed. Every single positive thing that Matt has to say about "solar shingles" or whatever we're supposed to call them came from a sales brochure. I sincerely challenge Matt to prove me wrong and show me a single "fact" about the efficacy of this roofing material which didn't come from the person trying to sell it. Every "solar roof" technology on display in this video requires A PRE-EXISTING ROOF ON TOP OF WHICH the "solar roofing materials" will be installed. If you aren't laughing already, buckle in. Yes, the "solar roof" can only be built upon an existing "normal roof". If you don't believe me, just look at the images of the roof installations on display in this video. The narrator says BS like "easier to install" while showing you a video of not one, not two, not three, not four, but FIVE installers on a very small roof, with yards of wiring spilling out into every direction, confidently telling you "SEE?!?! I told you this would be easier than just installing a regular roof". Oh, and at the very same time, the narrator fraudulently implies that the price you pay for the "solar roofing shingles materiel" or whatever includes the cost of interconnecting all of this PV equipment into the grid, such that you can actually do something productive with the solar capacity. False. So basically you need to have a fully intact roof, then you get to install your fake "solar roof" on top of your "real roof" (which is literally identical in function to putting solar panels on your roof, except it's more expensive and less insurable, but who cares about my opinion), and then you have to pay to wire that "fake" "real" roof into your home's electric system. But when I say I'm disappointed, it's not because people like Matt are so obviously and completely duped by sales pitches. It's because Matt clearly doesn't care at all whether he's been duped or not. It's clear that he simply prefers the easy and comforting reality of the salesmen, where all of the fantastic breakthroughs are "just around the corner" and "any day now" the amazing promise of all of these mind-blowing technologies will be unleashed "as soon as we give these very trustworthy and definitely not biased entities the money they so desperately need in order to overcome their inexplicably high customer acquisition costs which are definitely one quarter the cost of an entire residential solar installation," and I am definitely not literally laughing out loud at the notion that one quarter of the entire dollar cost of a residential solar installation should go towards "customer acquisition" costs. And no, just to confirm, I am still not laughing at that utterly absurd claim.
On a previous video which I believed that he referenced in this one they demonstrated that the Tesla solar tiles were extremely durable against things like hail. We have no solar but have been talking about it for 20 years....
Good video for alternatives for Solar Roof's. We installed the Tesla Solar Roof v3 and Powerwall system as our roof needed replacement after 27 years of GAF shingles. Took two weeks for old roof removal and install in July 2021 and received final PTO in Feb 2022. Working well so far.
I like the idea of solar panels but I won't be getting any in the near future. My electricity bill is $100 max a month in the summer (summers here average over 90°F (32° C) daily) and under $50 in the winter (above freezing 99% of the time). I have a metal roof and energy efficient air conditioner that has saved me 20-30% monthly on electricity. In the winter, my electricity bill goes down to less than $50 a month due to gas heating which only goes up ~$20 a month in the winter. My hope in the future is that the energy storage will improve to the point that I can completely go off the grid electrically. I feel we are close.
Honestly, I’m just excited for any innovation in the solar market. Some of it will move us forward and some of it will end up going nowhere, but that’s ok. When I can eventually buy a house, I’ll just grab quotes from all the tech that’s available and make a decision then. Currently, it looks like the efficiency, installation cost, and maintenance cost would push me towards panels, but who knows what 5 years of innovation will bring! I’m also not one of those people who thinks that panels “look ugly” though so I can see how someone else would push for panels.
The laws of physics will always be in effect, no matter what the hopes and wishes on innovations are. Apart from (arguably) looking nicer than solar panels, solar shingles bring nothing else to the table. I'm an engineer, seems to be a trend when replying to your comment.
Logically these roofs need to be on new-builds and could be incorporated into building codes alongside improvements in insulation, glazing, heat pumps, geothermal, underfloor heating etc.
Glad to see the technology improving and becoming more cost effective. But, black shingles, directly attached to the roof, with no thermal barrier, during 110 degree AZ summers is a deal breaker, IMO. Now, expensive EPF insulation is required to compensate, assuming that there is an attic with inside access to the rafters. IMO, roofs are roofs and PV panels should be mounted on solar trackers for maximum efficiency. The best option would be a solar carport with a tracking array to shade and protect vehicles from the elements. Otherwise, why can't PV panels be white?
It’ll almost never be full DIY, but I could see most of the instal being DIY and then you have to call an electrician to do an inspection and the final hookup. But I agree, even getting to that point would likely drive sales up like crazy!
Solar PV systems can run at up to 1000V DC and need to connect to the AC installation within a house. It's not really a DIY job, unless you're cool with things setting on fire
You could do it yourself assuming you can acquire the tiles. The GAF solution may make that easier. And plenty of people install their own solar panels, inverters, etc.
One thing you failed to mention (in my area is a summer/winter certainty), is how do these solar panels/shingles hold up to weather, such as hail, snow, sub-zero (F) temperatures. A big considerations for homeowners in these climates.
Is there a practical reason (other than that mixing electricity and water isn't necessarily a good idea) why photovoltaic-thermal hybrids aren't more common. Especially in hot sunny climates? If the panels loose efficiency when they get hot, why not integrate a cooling circuits to heat, or even just preheat water before it goes to a boiler? Granted this would increase the cost of a panel, but you would potentially also need less of them. It varies by season obviously but I estimate that around 50% of my electricity goes to heating water. So Instead of say having two PV panels, one which is just heating water, you could have a one single panel doing both while potentially increasing both the efficiency and lifespan of the PV cells by keeping them cool and reducing thermal cycling. The 2=1 math here is obviously a gross oversimplification
The cost per wh isn't going to be good in such a system. You can also just generate electricity directly from the heat (or I should say, heat differential) like what an RTG does. Again, neither systems are useful unless you have obscene money and want the single most efficient system for the sake of efficiency.
I just wish they provided more numbers and info on their product. It all sounds great in the hype ads, but they are really sketchy on providing price, output, and efficiency or long term stats for their solar tiles.
I wish you had mentioned snow sliding off slick roofing. Starting in 2005 I installed traditional panels, flush mounted, on my house and detached shop near Denver--snow country!. Most winters I have had an avalanche of snow sliding off the panels, despite having at least a foot of asphalt exposed at the foot of the panels as well as gutters. Fortunately all exterior door are under cover, because the avalanches could seriously harm someone.
I don’t think solar tiles are for me. Waaay too expensive. I think I’ll stick with old school panels which are much for affordable and honestly, when neatly installed they don’t look too bad anyway. Besides, then I can ‘virtue-signal’ so that all my neighbors know I care about the environment! 😉
Yes. Better to keep pay the Saudis for that energy bill every month, have it double every 10 years or so, and then again and again, have a lot of air leakage and bug leakage and drafts and hot and cold spots. Definitely the short cut of the lucky person with limitless money to waste. The Simpsons aren't' going to watch themselves every night. (wink emoji face, etc.)
@@DK-vx5co lol….. oil is not just used for energy but actually millions of applications, there are tons and tons of oil byproducts that electricity cannot replace.
Solar tiles are better suited for people who are replacing their roofs or are building new. I'm in the latter and I too dislike how the panels look on a regulator roof. So with the money saved from not having to purchase roof tiles, I consider that a win-win situation.
I really appreciate an honest objective review of this market and specifically anything Tesla. Too often Tesla product reviews are done by fanboys who can't objectively review the product because it's more of a showcase how much they love Tesla than a critical honest review. "I didn't mind paying an extra $15000 because this UA-cam video will easily pay for that"
Couldn’t agree more. Much of the internet seems blinded by the Tesla brand so they have trouble acknowledging when another company offers a competitive product at a better price and with better on time delivery.
I had 2 local solar companies come by my house to do an estimate for install. They were going to install 21 panels on my roof to meet my demand. I had to cancel my install because it was going to cost me double per month what I'm paying in electric and gas total for the next 15-20 years. I don't know how solar is a cost viable option for anyone. At $150/month for 15 years is $27k, and even if my bill goes up to $200/month that $36k. While solar install @ $50k for 15 years is $277/month, and that's not counting having a battery backup which can add an extra $10-$15k, so I'm paying more per month and still losing power during a blackout, so I'm seeing no benefits and more cost. Since my state and county require me to stay tied into the grid, I don't actually get refunded for the excess power I output for them, I only get credited for when I'm not overproducing. So if I want solar, I have to buy it all and install it myself, but my power company has to approve and sign off on it.
Yeah, you're facing a set of serious obstacles that will take time, money, and effort to overcome. I'm puzzled by a legal requirement to remain tied to the grid, though. That sounds like a situation just asking for a lawsuit to reverse it, and there seems to be no reasonable justification for such a requirement, leading one to assume that was a law purchased by utility-funded lobbyists.
We need more competition and streamlining of the permitting process. I installed an 82 panel system for $59000 after incentives. The learning process, the permitting and dealing with the utility were all challenges. Its saving me $6300 per year, while providing passive cooling for my house. But its not a solar roof, its a shade structure. A solar roof would have been harder for me to do and increased the risk of a roof leak. Not everybody has the space for this, nor the clear sunshine nor the solar incentives of Phoenix where I live. I think that anyone who is building a large, custom (energy hog) home in the southwest should have solar integrated into the build. It pays even without help from the utility, and its the right thing to do.
Good video, thanks for showing multiple options and being level-headed about the pros and cons. Additional point: There is no air space between the solar tiles/shingles and the roof. This overheats the structure of the house and increases AC loads. Solar panels allow a few inches of air space and actually cool the roof, reducing AC loads. This has been documented in a study (San Diego State U, I believe) as reducing AC costs by about 5%. So it's hard to justify buying a more expensive roof, with more wiring connections (points of possible failure) and increasing the heat load on the house, compared to solar panels. It can make sense when you must get a new roof, but even then, still hard to justify. If you don't need a new roof, I can't foresee the situation in which I would recommend it. (14 yrs experience in solar, including BIPV mfg sales mgt)
@@Gustav4 they're still evolving the products, so it's hard to say. But every time I have asked I have been told by the manufacturer, whether Tesla, DOW, GAF, Eagle, or others, that there is no airspace. If one of the manufacturers would engineer a product that has ventilation space I will be sure to espouse it.
Dont forget about the lower efficiency of the panels themselves. Learned about that in at Uni. In-roof solars loose about 2-5% performance compared to on-roof panels
There is a 3/4 inch gap between the roof and the bottom of the tile with small vents at the drip edge and ridge. It's not alot of air flow but there is some. The ice and water shield makes more of an impact on AC than the actual tiles.
In my opinion, modularity is the best route. I have a start up company that is producing a housing unit for solar panels themselves. The housing unit itself is made in response to the architecture of the roof. It reinforces the current structural integrity and while initial installation maybe a bit high, being able to add or remove panels from the housing unit is going to make future upgrades/fixes so much easier. Cheers to hopefully a future that we can be proud of!
I do not think so, they pay the sub companies and assemblers far too little. Especially in Europe. 1. PV systems require specially trained electricians / certificates not everyone is allowed to install them and solar roofs need extra qualifications to do so. 2. a PV system electrical testing is already not easy with normal systems and with small module designs a disaster. 3. there are other easier jobs for electricians that are paid much better. (Office equipment testing or smoke detectors, etc. There is enough nonsense in Europe).
I really like the idea of the Tesla solar roof, and when I found out my roof was at the end of its lifespan two years ago, I signed up to get one on the Tesla website. But after two years on the wait list, plus the roof seemingly not available in northern Ohio, plus the increase in cost, plus the poor customer service, plus the multiple of problems people seem to have with installations, plus Elon Musk acting like a jerk on Twitter, I decided to get a new traditional asphalt roof and solar panels. I am comfortable with this decision and it was probably actually cheaper than the solar roof anyway.
That's too bad. Energy costs are going up and supplies are dirtier and more expensive from extraction to final usage and all the waste along the way. Just a little war has made gas prices rocket up and things are getting worse. When a home needs a new roof is the perfect time to ween from the Saudi teet. Better yet, get in there and do a little bit of energy efficiency and air sealing and you might eliminate 20-40% of the demand in the first place, for decades to come, and have a more comfortable and healthy home to boot. As Covey said, begin with the end in mind.
Tesla quoted me a very reasonable number, then doubled it in part because they made powerwalls mandatory (I rarely see any power outages and my utility pays the same rate for solar spillover as it charges for power). Then I got the plans, and it was a much smaller array and 80% of the PV tiles were on north facing slopes. The net result was the expected power was 20% of my needs. They claimed they couldn’t install on the southern exposures, but that’s not true. And the southern exposures had fewer obstructions (vents, etc).
Solar roofs are one of those items that I like the idea of, but still at this point due to cost will opt more likely for panels instead. I would agree with you, they are just another piece of the overall puzzle.
I have already used regular solar panels to make a roof and are planning to do more. My first one is just a verandah roof sealed with silicon on the outside. It is cooler than my other arrays due to open air flow underneath. Is also easy to work on and configure wiring from below. I've been off grid for decades and now have a fully working camel dairy running off solar wind and Ni fe batteries. I use older second hand panels because I have lots of space for them especially now they are being used as roofing to boot. Still need to work on a nicer connecting /sealing system. Thanks for your show BTW Regards Warwick
Excellent! I was thinking of this for a carport. Bottom mount the panels and space with tile x bits. Long lasting silicone or adhesive roof tape should work...glad to know it does.😊
As a consumer, I'm not going to pay extra for a roof to save money on electricity if the savings don't outweigh the cost... If the electric company wants us to do this to help them with their growing needs, they can foot the bill.
Solar roofs have been around for a long time. I remember looking at solar roof products 10-15 years ago when I put solar on my camper. The company made thin film solar on an aluminum substrate. I think the company was one of the pioneers of thin film solar. They had two roofing products. A 3 tab asphalt shingle, and standing seam metal roof. The standing seam solar panels came in a roll with a sticky back. All you did to install it was drill a hole in the a roof panel for the wire. Peal off the back. Stick it between the ridges on the metal roof. Because they curved, I was think about sticking them on the curve of the camper roof. California started using the solar shingles on park/beach small buildings like toilets to avoid vandalism that the regular more visible solar panels attracted. The company was Uni-Solar. They where founded in 1960 as ECD. I'm not sure when they started making solar roofing. My guess is before 2000(They say 1997). There sales peaked in 2008 as the largest thin film solar manufacturer in the world. They went bankrupt in 2012. So when Musk acted like solar roofs was a new idea, I rolled my eyes. I have to admit that the Tesla solar roof looks better then Uni-Solar roofs did. An interesting aside, another division of ECD, Ovonics made the NiMH batteries for the EV-1.
"The definitely look like a solar roof, but for some people that's the whole point." It's important to let your neighbors know that you're better than they are!! 😅 😂 🤣
I don't know how many years, and how wasteful with the "free" energy I would need to be for a $100k solar roof to ever pay for itself. Ultimately, being in the midwest is fairly green. There are massive wind farms in every direction around my city.
My home is in Minnesota - extreme weather and temperature swings. We recently moved into our home and based on the pre-purchase home inspection replaced our roof shingles. We went with an upgraded class 4 impact resistant shingle with a 20 year warranty with a total cost of $18,300 (39 square). Fast forward two years and last Summer we were approached by a company (Everlight) to add PV Solar panels to our roof. These panels would go over our existing new roof. I called my roof installer and the solar panel install would void the warranty in the areas where the PV panels were installed. Now this system would not store the energy onsite it would sell the power back to my power company (Xcel). Some months, between the monthly payment for the panels and our Xcel bill I would come out even, some ahead (get a rebate or credit from Xcel) and other months (likely Winter with less daily Sun and more demand to power the heating system) we would have a Xcel bill albeit smaller. The solar array would have been $25,000 hoping to get $6,500 back in a rebate. The fact that the install of the array would void our roof warranty and the fact that this area does get damaging hail we chose to not move forward with adding solar at this time. We believe that the panels will become more efficient in the future thus needing less roof area to power the homes needs. It was an interesting experience walking through the process and we seriously considered adding the panels. I offered to simply add an array on the 3.5 car garage alone but Everlight didn’t seem interested in a partial power array.
Your insurance pays for Hail damage, your roof warranty only covers leaks due to their error (which is why drilling holes for solar voids it). That’s not a good reason.
@@FuncleChuck we checked with our insurance company - our insurance would pay for damage to the roof from hail not possibly / arguably caused by the panel install. Our agent also suggested it could be a challenge to get the insurance company to pay for damaged panels from hail. So that information on top of me writing a $18,500 check 18 months prior for top tier shingles and the solar system not exactly what we wanted ( we preferred energy stored onsite not sold back to Xcel) and no written guarantee the current monthly XCel rebate programs continuing indefinitely. We chose not to have a crew we didn’t know drill into our roof. Call me crazy…
Great video and you made a great point about not being the entire answer but being just part of the solution. These products must be available for new installations with out a wait so homes get built then a market for replacement will follow
My husband and I were running the numbers. It boiled down to you being “all in” or don’t do it. By “all in” I mean: 1. Add enough panels to cover 90% or more of solar needs. 2. You need a new roof. 3. Your furnace/a-c needs to be electric. 4. You need a battery bank 5. Commit to solar energy. Get electric vehicles & charge them at home 6. You have plenty of sun to keep the system charged. 7. You have power outages and are seriously thinking about add a back up generator to your house. We figured with tax credits and “all in” approach you can make it work. Our roof dominates the look of our house (think cape cod style home). The plus is there is a great platform to install. BTW: Agree 100% on you need a new roof. Timing is everything. You need to be replacing the roof & HVAC when it needs it not for the heck of it. Thanks for pointing out the new Timberline product. Do you know if you can combine the Timberline roof with the Tesla batteries?
I would not install solar roofs here in Spain because of several reasons. Number one is the Calima-sandstorm that comes in and covers everything in sand and dust which means you need to clean them easily which makes solar panels the obvious choice. Secondly I want to angle the panels a bit more so I get better coverage in the winter (big big issue). Thirdly, by adding an angle and a bit of spacing under the panels I get additional shade and wind cooling of the roof in the summer months.
Thanks for the video Matt! I wanted to share my miserable experience in installing Tesla solar. While my installation was done within 2 months or so after putting the request. It took almost 7 months to get the system working after installation! And yes, I paid the entire cost for the panel + 1 power wall, which was almost 29K in 2021. Tesla just keeps you in dark and never calls or updates anything. During installation they told me that it might take up to 3 months to get the permission to operate, but even after 4 months nothing happened. I got really frustrated and after almost 10-15 calls to their support I finally got something going. Even after that point it took another 2 months and my project manager was completely useless. They put the blame on my local energy provider (PG&E) in my case. After the permission was granted after 6 months, I thought I finally got the system working, but no! There was another issue, the system was not connecting to Tesla grid and my tesla app was not recognizing the system. It took another month and multiple calls to diagnose the issue and the support system is totally broken! Well, finally after 7 months now everything seems to be working fine. While I really like the Tesla solar app this was the most miserable experience I ever had with a company. I am not sure how other companies are, but if a trusted brand like Tesla is doing this, it is miserable. At one point, I was even thinking of consulting a lawyer suspecting a scam!
yah thats why tesla solar roof had too be redesigned totally, its not an intregration more like a roof upgrade ... same functions as a good roof plus solar power and more durability and heat isolation. But the Timberline System is more like an cheap extra i would not call that a real roof. Still both have there use.
We needed a new roof badly, love the idea of solar, and in NY, the tax incentives on paper outweighed the value of an asphalt roof. Breakdown: new best asphalt roof with highest warranty: $9,500. Tesla roof after incentives: $14,500 that came with a $10,000 Powerwall battery. That Powerwall can run our house’s electric all night until a good part of the next day in sunny spring-to-late-fall days, so we rarely use the grid for electric until winter, where the 9kw system doesn’t get enough sun (Central NY) to charge it fully-or it’s covered in snow. It was a no brainer-on paper. In reality, customer service to rope you in was excellent, until you started having questions. I’d get no answers or contact from my email handler for months as I waited for email handlers to get replaced about seven or eight times in the course of March 2021 agreement to September 15 2021 installment. Then the construction team were ready two weeks ahead of schedule to install before I got certain answers to important questions-like cost after incentives, and a few others. I had to sit in front of the contractors and fold my arms and say until I get these answers, you can’t start. Suddenly, I had a new handler, and all the answers I needed. We proceeded to begin. The team was amazing! Fast, courteous, efficient. In the end, a wonderful experience-the solar roof went on, and pow! I has solar energy powering my Powerwall! The team handled final things while I was at work, packed up and left. Then I came home and did a walk-around-and looked up on the sides of my house-. They had removed-hand-cut and butchered metal trim on both sides of my house. It looked horrible. Scissor marks at the corners where they used to be wrapped protectively around my trim. I called the main contractor several times and finally got him on the phone. He gave me a song and dance, but agreed to come back and fix it-which he did-sort of-but did a horrible job that looked nothing like the original. I refused to pay. Tesla threatened collections until I kept calling over and over, sending pictures of what they did to them, and photos of the original trim I had to dig out of the dumpster to get. Finally, they stopped collections and agreed to fix my trim. Then I realized-my original trim stuck out about an inch and a half in 3-d relief and wrapped around a board they removed. If the original trim was to go back up, the Tesla roof would not cover it. The contractor team had shortened my entire roof by about three inches on both sides, and covered it up (poorly) but ripping my trim off!! So I’ve gone all winter without this fixed, and without paying (though paying interest on my loan to get the roof) they just got a local company to give an estimate to repair the trim-and he confirmed they shortened my roof, and there’s no way to get the trim looking like the original-which matched the rest of the house trim-but they could make it more secure and look better than what Tesla’s guy did. I love my solar, but am very disappointed in this trim mess. It’s been a nightmare of endless calling and taking names and documenting everything, and being terrified of being sent to collections when I have the money-but just won’t pay until they fix their mess. One local guy had Tesla install solar panels, and paid, but due to some hiccup at the grid connector didn’t have solar for over six months and kept getting the runaround by Tesla’s customer service team. So I knew not paying was the only leverage I had to getting this matter addressed. So it’s a year later, start to finish, we’re still not on a two-way grid bubble (so extra energy can go to the grid and make me money) since I haven’t paid, tax time is now, and I get to see if the $11,000 incentive really is what they claimed, and my trim will never look the same-but is on the works to get improved-ish. I’ve learned to let go, as winter prevented any further work on the matter. In short-Tesla needs to improve customer response time via email. There is a labor shortage due to Covid, so I get it, but their lack of response time has really caused unnecessary stress. That said, they ARE addressing it, and my issue has gone up the ladder, and it’s being handled (as I got their attention by holding back on paying). Hopefully, this will be resolved soon. I love the roof and Powerwall, but I’m rather over the whole mess.
Solar PV should be the last option, in terms of ROI (if we're gonna play that game). Most energy pumped into homes (80-90%) is wasted; thus most of the PV production is wasted. It's like driving around with leaks in your gas tank. Energy efficiency has much faster "payback" than PV (plus all the additional health, comfort and resilience benefits); and most homes lack the roof space and orientation required when systems have to be over-sized to account for that 80-90% waste factor. Without efficiency measures, all the worry over PV is just putting band-aids on a leaky boat. Maybe that could be a discussion for one of your videos.
If people would properly install an inexpensive radiant barrier in their attic and add a little more insulation to the attic, add thermal curtains, properly seal their doorways and entrances, heck even gradually replace older windows with more energy efficient rated ones, have their water heaters on timers, empty their water heaters twice a year to remove sediment build up they would see some savings. The best part is these things can be done gradually with lesser costs.
Thanks a ton for this. We are rehabbing our 1860s family farm to be a net producer of energy in the Green Bay, WI area. Our area is not on the up and up for tech, so we’ve had to do a lot of training, and bring in consultants, for our local contractors who are the opportunity, but don’t have the skill set our knowledge. Your videos have been helpful to get a few of them started down the technical rabbit hole.
I would challenge the notion that Tesla is a leader in Solar, they really aren't, technically or financially. Elon tends to talk a good game and is exciting to listen to, but lots of what he says never comes to fruition and never in the time frame he states. I'd go as far as to say Solar has been a complete flop for tesla as evidenced by the markets they are leaving as well as the challenges the company has with installation and service, they are a mess, I know because I have their panels.
I’ve had solar panels installed on my roof approximately 5-6 years ago. I truly believe in clean energy and our country’s independence on fossil fuels. Ironically, now with the price of oil going through the roof my decision to have these panels installed has been a godsend. I live in New York and our electric rates have gone up 100-300%! That’s insanity! I received my electric bill this past week and it was $0! In fact, I still had a credit of several dollars. My next door neighbor recently contacted me to inquire about the panels. Apparently, she had received an electrical bill that was over $1,600! That’s absolute insanity! For those who are on the fence about solar systems, and they can have their own issues, the fact that they offer a measure of energy independence, along with a cleaner alternative, was for me a great selling point. Current world events have finally proven me right. I would caution people planning to install panels that you should install a new roof prior to installing these panels. I recently paid over $5,000 to have my panels removed and reinstalled in order to replace my roof. Solar panel leases usually run for 20 years. Quality roofs will last 20-30 years. For me that was a costly “ lessons learned “ scenario. So be forewarned!!!
In Jax.,Fl. 1977 solar was coming to every home , business and street corner. We would not pay an electric bill. Or have to buy gas as my Citi car would be here in a couple months. Only thing that happened was solar panels on bus stop kiosks. Yes there were plans across the world but big oil had the "Embargo" and they won.
Most large structures by me are covered with solar panels. Some parking lots have shaded rows where the shades are solar panels. But, we still need/want residential solar and battery storage. For us those have eliminated most of our electrical needs. We only pay about $25-30/mo and much that is the grid connection fee.
@@JBoy340a I built a 10x22 carport down the driveway side of house in 1984 with 21 panels on it. 20 and 35 watt panels only thing out here. Ineffiecient as all get out but somewhat worked, I ran "green" 12 volt lights in and outside. I had 3 barbie doll cars running constantly 86,7,8,9. Gokart with car starter on it I built in 1990-2007. Other than small tvs' and laptops powering electronic equipment was useless or a battery bank from hell about the same size as the house was needed to store generated power. I had 10 12v 100ah trolling motor batteries The carport shading that sunny side of house brought my electric bill down $50 and more a month just for less a-c useage. Heats no problem here in Florida.Wound up with 4 100 watt,8 40watt and 7 harbor freight 15 watters Sold the house in 2012. State here passed a hidden agenda law(you know down near the bottom constrewed in a paragraph) within a major Amendnent which voters approved outlawing any "diy" solar panels and alll solar must be installed by professionals sponstered by the power companies in this state. The good ole brother-n-law act. I'm glad I never became a politician because I did think about it but I can look anyone in the eye and tell them the truth.
@@cuylerwilkinson4414 - I appreciate that people like you put system together back then. You showed what a person can do with a little ingenuity. It is criminal that a state would would outlaw DIY installation. We need to focus on more installations of power systems of all kinds, and solar is one homeowners can do themselves.
I added solar panels with my new roof a couple of years ago. I'm in Minnesota. Summer air conditioning is fully paid for by the panels; winter is a different story with snow coverage. I have to clear some of the panels on the east side of my hipped roof since the panels do not come to the edge of the roof. Snow piles up below the panels and has to be removed to get the full solar gain. Not a big deal with a roof rake. It has slowed my transition to electric heat though.
I actually like the look of 'normal' solar panels too. It would be awesome to have panels of different shapes, to better cover the corners and peaks of a traditional roof though. A big part of the efficiency advantage that 'normal' solar panels have is the heat difference (as mentioned in the video). They have an air-gap underneath them that is very good at allowing the heat from the panel itself to dissipate. The other (rarely considered) advantage that this brings, is it actually shades the roof itself, reducing the heat build up that gets into your house's roof cavity (not an advantage in colder climates, kinda the opposite to be fair)
I agree. Plus, the "idea of unobtrusiveness" seems to be just a matter of habit. I have encased my roof with normal on-roof panels and find it looks awesome and high-tech. So far, no animals made nests in the space between roof and panels, even though we do have some critters around here, and it is installed for two years now. Also, the additional blocking of sunrays helps a quite bit during summer.
I'd like to clarify. While coverage is the main factor of your system power there are a couple engineering requirements that need to be considered when installing panels. First you have the national requirements for first responder safety. Solar panel systems are required to have at least one three foot gap of roof on the side and three foot of gap on both sides of the peak for firefighter access. I'm not sure how solar roof tiles get around this, the tech is new so the codes might need updating. The second thing solar systems need to consider for coverage is panel size. A system's performance is generally limited by the lowest performing panel. That's one of the reasons shading is such a huge deal when designing a system; a panel in a system with a shaded panel will be limited until the shaded panel is also in full sun. Similarly, different sizes and shapes of panels can drastically complicate the calculations required to get the most efficiency out of the system. Then you have the manufacturing costs to produce panels in different shapes and the extra install cost of the additional racking and positioning. It's a decent idea but the cost per W of the system would go up for limited returns.
@@chrury Regarding the shading, that is why some people might use micro-inverters, which reduces the impact shading has on the system as a whole. Though if you don't really need it, you'd avoid it due to extra cost obviously.
Panels are clunky solutions to the problem of buying a "used" house, like seat covers on a "used" car. We wouldn't want those same seat covers on a "new" car. just wouldn't make sense. As new homes are built, they'll be more efficient (not wasting 80-90% of their energy to begin with) and PV roof will do two jobs in one, like picking a new smart phone instead of an old "not smart" phone because... why wouldn't you?
@@DK-vx5co I don't really see panels as a 'clunky' solution, after all panels are used nearly everywhere (even in new builds) currently. The only reasons you might get a solar roof instead of panels are: 1) esthetics, which most people will not really care that much about, at least none that I know. 2) roof geometry doesn't allow for many panels. 3) this is the most important point: cost. If a solar roof is cheaper than putting up panels, ofcourse people might go for it. But if you don't need a new roof roof, there is no need. And if a regular roof + solar panels is more cost-effective, people are unlikely to go for the solar roof option. The smartphone example doesn't really make sense. That is similar to saying "well, you'd pick a new roof instead of on old one, because why wouldn't you?" If my old smartphone/roof is still fine, why would I need a new one? You'd not compare an old roof + solar panels with a new solar roof (otherwise the former is most likely less costly), rather a new roof + solar panels. Also I don't know where you live, but where I live roofs tend to not be replaced before solar panels reach their end of life, 45-70 years is likely a good estimate for when roofs are replaced here, with a solar roof it would be around 30-35 years. So imo if the costs aren't in favor of a solar roof and my roofs geometry allows panels, I'd go with the 'clunky' panels.
I had my roof for about 17 years. When it came time to replace, insurance covered 60% of the cost. I paid $4,300 for dimensional 125 mph regular shingles. I know a solar roof on my house would easily be $50K. My utilities run about $3.5K per year to be quite comfortable so the amount of utility money per year is not astronomical. When you consider investing some of that difference over time versus taking a loan and paying interest, I just cannot justify it. Even if I had the $50K+ up front for solar versus just investing that money, I doubt you could ever come out ahead unless the investments did very lousy for a very, very long time. I am definitely decided on keeping my $4,300 lifetime roof with 10 year shingle blowoff guarantee. I also have zero maintenance and zero monitoring. I just don’t have to worry about my roof in general which is good piece of mind.
Can you imagine if Tesla teamed up with a new home developer that made the solar roof, battery storage, heat pump HVAC and electric vehicle charger as a standard part of the build. They would have people lining up to buy those homes and become part of a Tesla designed community. Incorporating bike paths and trails, some apartments and condos with solar canopies in the parking lot for EV charging and a business district that you could ride a bicycle to pick up groceries or do light shopping. Some developer should jump on this and team up with a winner.
On the traditional solar panels on my roof, I have individual mini-inverters for each panel. That insures that when 1/2 the panels are in shade, they don't affect the 1/2 that are in the light. My understanding is that when all the panels are on a single inverter, panels in the shade reduce the output of the other panels. I wonder how solar shingles handle this issue?
I have a new house, but I love the idea of installing a solar roof but it HAS TO be paired with a Tesla battery. I’m hoping that when it’s time to change the roof (in about 25 years) the technology will be great and TEsla will have their crap together 😂
@@ernie4125 Solar without a battery can make sense. If you are using 2kW constantly and get solar panels that can generate 2kW for 10 hours a day you could cut down on the amount of power you buy significantly. If the cost of the panels is less than what you would pay for the electricity then it's good.
@@ernie4125 I found the payback for a battery in Phoenix (APS) is about 30 years, based on their rate system. I couldn't justify it - better to spend that money on more solar panels, which I did. When the utility starts paying more for energy generated at night, that picture will change.
I think I’d prefer a “solar parasol” mounted a foot or so off the roof on a more robust frame, possibly to the groung around the edges, only on the south face. This would shade the house keeping it cooler. Also it would reduce the need to leave gaps for plumbing vents.
I talked to a Solar Panel expert and he said that Solar Roofs will not succeed because you have to clean the Solar Panels often to get the most power out of them. It's nearly impossible to clean the entire Solar Roof because you'll break them if you need to stand on them. He basically made the case that if you can't clean the entire roof properly, you've wasted most of your money.
Solar roofs are just not economical yet compared to standard solar panels bracketed to the existing roof. Even with 30% tax credit its still too costly for average home owners. I am personally not a fan of mounting solar to roofs especially if its avoidable and you have space for a ground mount system. I do really like Tesla solar roofs if it didn't cost so danm much. Would love to see this as the standard on all houses in the future.
would any of you lads be interested in some self driving solar tiles that bore tunnels into mars for hyperloops? we accept dogecoin and you get a free flamethrower with every order. [expected wait time: 1-99999 centuries, prices may vary from 1-99999% of contracted amount]
Love that Tesla innovation is bringing more competitors to the table, even if that means Tesla will lose sales. We need more power from more sources and this is just one. Wonder however if that "Presidential Endorsement" for luma was the same president who exclude Tesla from his EV summit and even told the biggest lie of the year that GM was the world leader in EVs. Boy the UAW sure has a lot of clout and none of it good.
I think for me the 3 issues with any solar roof is 1) the difficulty of producing electricity in regions of the world where the sun isnt as readily available all year around 2) the potential costs associated with replacing a old solar roof with a new one and 3) the question of how good the solar roof is in holding the elements outside the house aka the roof not leaking for example.
The large problem with putting a solar array on any dwelling is that it (1) puts holes in your roof (2) must be removed in order to access the roof for repairs (3) is hard to access because it's mounted to an existing roof. The solution is to place a solar array atop a stand-alone carport lattice frame. This allows for access to the underside for maintenance and removal of individual panels, utilizes the entire roof frame, provides shade for your vehicles and is overall less expensive to build.
I think the way to go is developing solar tracking and reflectors with traditional PV arrays. You get a better window of peak power with tracking, you get a substantial boost in power from reflectors (which would be great for overcast days/less sunny areas). The burden would be to develop a smart controller to manage the load on the structure and depending on the roof reinforcement may be necessary. But on the flip side, install could be down to half a day- if the system can be delivered on a pallet, final assembly on site and a light crane to place it on the roof.
Having just built a house, the issue with a solar roof is you have to pay up front if you are building a new house. My contractor and I tried using a draft from our construction loan for this, and they wouldn't budge for some stupid reason. We went with concrete shingles instead, but it still ticks me off. We live in AZ; it is a prime location for solar roofs to become standard for all new builds.
We replaced our roof a few years ago after a hail storm. It was ~$9800, though a solar option was available and would have been north of $30k. I thought about it with the incentive of an $8,900 rebate until I spoke with a few installers. Labor aside, I asked how many solar-installed roofs he was doing repair work on after that same storm. "All of them need something." Average repairs he said were about $10k. Something to think about, especially if your home insurance may not cover a total loss on a solar system due to the costs vs a traditional roof.
Here in Texas you can expect golf ball sized hail about once every 10 -15 years. My house is 13 years old and we had that size hail only 6 months after it was built. If I had solar panels back then, they would have been decimated.
As a solar manufacturer CTO who has dabbled in BIPV in the past, the rate of change in technology and design is the killer here. It's fine to have it easily repairable but unless warehouses full of stock are held back for replacement, the designs and appearance will change too much over time to slip in a new tile in 10 years. In 12 years a standard roof top module has gone from 200W to 400W. Cell appearance, colour and size are all completely different. They don't look that different to regular panels either. I'd argue that some look worse.
There is a lot of push back from local power companies. Here is Florida solar was encouraged by a sell back to those power companies at retail prices. However, now they have introduced legislature to push that price back to wholesale prices after the fact that people installed solar planning on getting paid retail price for the solar energy they sell back to the power company. It is like a slap in the face and those who were looking at installing solar, can't afford to do so now.
Layman’s question here: I understand that these types of solar panels become less efficient the hotter they get. I have heard that on several sites but no one has explained precisely what that entails. So isn’t there some way of passively cooling them, such as having a bigger cavity directly below them in order to circulate air flow? Or is this ‘heat’ more concerned with the temperatures within the layers of the panel itself (precluding airflow as a cooling solution)? I live in the tropics; I’d be really interested to hear about the efficiency of solar panels + their efficiency when in temperate climes versus tropical climes.
You could build for airflow underneath them, but that would add significantly to the cost as well as the profile of the roof. This is just another reason why solar roofs are a dumb idea. Install your roof, then install panels on it so you can optimally position and airflow comes naturally, instead of having your panel be both a power generator and watertight barrier.
Thank you. We have two older homes on the east coast. One is in a historic district, the other has a complex mansard roof with dormers and multiple slopes. Standard solar panels aren't really an option for either (historic district won't allow them, and the mansard doesn't have enough large flat surfaces to mount panels), so I've been tracking solar shingles for a while. Currently, I'm in the "lets see if we can wait ten years" camp.
Big problem with larger shingles is that at least in NJ you can only have the solar cover a certain amount of the roof and those tiles can only fit on larger roof so unless you have a giant or simple roof you can't get nearly the coverage a smaller tile can squeeze into. We have been running into this issue especially with the larger tesla solar pannels we have been using making us drop pannels due to fire setbacks
The roof on my TX house is now more than 17 years old, and is getting close to replacement time. All of my neighbors have gotten new shingle roofs in the past two years, no doubt capitalizing on hail storms to ‘find’ damage to their roofs and have insurance cover some/all of the replacement cost. I have considered solar roof shingles instead of panels, as I think it’s a better overall system, and it looks less disruptive than solar panels. Most of my roof faces East and West, not South, so having solar shingles would probably be better overall, and generate power throughout the day. Plus, I would have no solar panels visible from the street (the West facing part of the roof. Thanks to this video, I have more info to use when investigating whether solar shingles will be worth it. And if not, then I’ll put another standard roof on the house. Here’s hoping for another hail storm soon. ;-)
Our TX home roof needed replacement in 10 years because of hail. The Texas sun dries out the shingles and they get brittle. Now add hailstones up to the size of baseball and it is new roof and car windshield time.
How about looking into NON PV solar home products. A gentleman I used to work for used to heat his home with a passive solar system that used a cinder block wall in a sun facing solarium as a collector that had air flowing through it, and through a large gravel heat-sink under the wall, to provide for some of his winter heating. If I remember correctly, his cold air returns to the furnace went through these spaces. The air warmed going through the block wall during the day would "load" the gravel heat sink, and pre-warm the air going to the furnace. The thermal mass of the wall and heat-sink would keep working overnight. I've personally used a flat, glass-topped box and coiled tubing to make a solar pool heater. Surely there have to be more ideas to use solar at home than tens of thousands of dollars worth of silicon and electronics?
Another benefit to solar roofs is that you have one contract, one price. The contract is for “solar roof”, making the entire project eligible for the 26% tax credit (rate in 2022). So you essentially get your roof and solar both at 26% off, rather than just your solar system. Also, one contract = one warranty. As a roofing contractor, I see homeowners caught in the middle of finger pointing between roofers and solar installers all the time. If you go with the GAF Timberline shingle, GAF warrants the entire system leak-free for 25 years.
Having worked in roofing, I guarantee you standard "roofers" would have nails through half those solar shingles. And GAF is the only brand I've seen that was consistently ruined after 7-10 years. If I say a 7 year roof that was bald all over (and need replacing)... It was always GAF.
Even if any of the contractors in my rural area had the experience to install one of these roofs, none of the manufacturers offer the product in my region. Here, a standard architectural asphalt shingle roof goes for $15,000 to $30,000, so a solar roof I can imagine would start at around $60,000--same as ceramic tile.
Half way through the video, i just love how this guy talks and quote companies on the: whole world, first in the world.... Best regards form eastern Europe.
So what do you think of solar roofs? Go to brilliant.org/Undecided to sign up for free. And also, the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual premium membership.
If you liked this, check out Exploring How This Plant Could Replace Concrete: ua-cam.com/video/mx7g79Jh66k/v-deo.html
I like the idea, but the people selling them are the type of sleazy scumbags who sell garbage on infomercials. When you have to resort to those types of tactics it's because you know the product is not worth anywhere near what you're trying to sell it for.
Also, a 30 year guarantee only works if the company still exists in 30 years. Good luck with that.
Clay roof tiles never have to be replaced. I have 2 sloping roofs, one facing west and the other east. I waited until I had put up 2 rooftop dormers with flat roofs and installed the solar panels on that all facing south.
Gaff. Gaffe? Oh, he means G.A.F. Like the G.A.F. ViewMaster.
The only thing holding solar roofing off is the difference between R&D scale and consumer product manufacturing. They simply cannot make the tiles/panels fast enough for the demand already out there. The companies involved, including Tesla, all need to look at major capitol investment for manufacturing at scale. Tesla already knows how to do this. I think the only problem here is that Elon has too much on his plate and hasn't put the time or resources into it to make it happen.
My only complaint with your video is the touting of things like 30 year guarantees. Very few companies are around 30 years later so I would not put too much stock into those claims. For example LG recently announced they are leaving the pv panel market.
I have been working on building a new home for the last 2 years. I immediately thought of Tesla roofing and put down a $100 deposit. They gave me a quote of $50,000 for the Tesla roof, $40,000 more than a roof from my builder. When permitting was approved I sent the final drawings to Tesla and the new quote was $100,000. I got my deposit back. I also had reached out to GAF for their solar roof. A year ago they said we don't install any new solar roofs in Georgia at this time. Then they said they would install in Georgia but despite repeated attempts to reach them I could never get GAF to respond to me. Probably too much interest though I had talked to a GAF roofer locally who said he would love to work with me to get experience installing the GAF solar roof. But the house now has a $10,000 roof on it and I will look at adding solar panels instead of a solar roof. I tried but just couldn't do it.
Georgia is tough for sure. I’m in Alpharetta and would love to see some Tesla roofs pop up.
PV systems are hard to sell in North Georgia. The PV sales process can not sell their PV system cheaper than the existing power companys.
We should be thankful that the dam in Buford is generating cheap HYDRO power .
It would if been good to get a metal standing seam room because you can basically clip the panel racking to the roof with no penetrations.
Wonky lead times like this are to be expected for early adopters of a new tech so I don’t fret too much about that.
The doubling in price from Tesla though…that seems really ridiculous. I wouldn’t think too much of it, but that company in particular seems to have encountered this with multiple products (model 3, cyber truck, etc.)
This is what ultimately makes me highly skeptical of every Tesla announcement these days. They seem to care more about getting people hyped than about actually delivering on their promises.
I’ll gladly buy any of their products once they’re actually on the market for a while and have a proven track record, but I won’t be preordering their stuff any time soon.
Pretty much sums up the current state of solar roofs in a nutshell across the country. I can barely convince my installer to use the new IQ8 microinverters, and they are hardly unproven.
Traditional solar panels have the advantage of allowing you to more easily start small with just a few panels, and then add more as money becomes available.
Yup. Also, you can add a bit more if your electricity demand increases. Like if you switch to an EV or an electric range/oven.
If the efficiency rating of the tiles were the same as the panels then I’d be a bit more excited about them.
This notion is complicated by the permitting process, the utility approval process, and the sizing of the feed wires to your panels. Its not too easy to just add a few solar panels even if you do it yourself.
That’s true for most people, but for farmers and businesses that usually have multiple buildings but limited land to put solar on, roof solar is a great boon… when it becomes available…
Tesla Solar Roof is modular by design, in theory you can add or remove power generating tiles while keeping a high endurance long lasting roof.
Do you have any advice were to get solar panels?
I love how he gave the actual answer in the first few seconds, rather than holding it back as a teaser. Instant thumbs up.
Toyota's 2023 Prius offers a $610 Solar Panel Roof Upgrade to passively charge the car while it's parked outside - really wish Tesla can offer something similar for their new EV's instead of making people purchase solar home system with powerwalls.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
I live off grid in Canada and when deciding on my solar I had to put in many considerations. One of the factors that was a deciding one that I feel was of high value when it came to getting the full production all year round. I pole mounted my solar panels for easier access to clear snow in early morning and fill battery banks by early afternoon on a not optimal sun day. If you have some land and you live where snow will be an issue for many months I recommend access to those panels.
Great point. The insistence is that ALL of these systems NEED to be on the roof, or a part of the roof. If you have limited space or building restrictions that may be your only option. The panels that everyone thinks are bullet proof and tough as nails, are fragile (to an extent) and would be easier to maintain if they were on the ground at a manageable height. These systems serve you best when you have the space and the knowledge concerning the maintenance and repair or replacement of them. It sounds like you have what you need, where you need them. If most people who thought they knew alot about these systems found out how little they actually knew, it would be a rude awakening for them.
How many KWH does your system produce per panel in Dec, Jan, and Feb in Canada?
@@percyfaith11 A single solar panel does not put out a killoWatt. Depending on manufacture and size, 150-300Watts is what a single panel outputs with optimal sun exposure.
Here in the Netherlands it is (nearly) all regular large solar panels.
Solar tiles are rare here.
22 solar panels with 9 kW converter and installation cost me about € 7.500
Good setup Jan!
Here in Arizona, USA, I have a 10 panel 3KW system which cost $9,000 after rebates. The system also came with a Level 2 car charger, but no battery. My solar production goes to the power company which credits me at the same rate it charges for the power they supply me. Fair deal.
I enjoy the savings, but money aside, I love the deal because of the benign environmental impact. Hope you do too.
Best to you in the Netherlands.
That is how it works in the Netherlands to. Home batteries are uncommon here for that reason.
@@autobootpiloot In Germany its full retard. Because its crazy bureaucracy most people opt for zero net output and buy power from the grid if the sun does not shine. Also above 10 kW you have to form a company to tax your solar production.
@@Morkvonork Taxing people for energy converted by solar panels they've already paid for..... 😒
Is it any wonder fossil fuel lobbyists so easily get their way so often?
Yup I do it also for the environment🙂
After about two years of use I need to buy around 1.500 kWh annually.
My converter has around 2.,5 kW capacity left so maybe I will buy 6 additional panels to become zero on the meter 👍😏
Years ago when Tesla had their calculator website it was estimated my Tesla roof would cost $110,000 in sunny south Florida. For comparison, an architectural shingle roof was $16,000. My yearly electric bill was about $2k a year. I bet my insurance company would like a chat with a new $100k in hurricane country. Even my property tax office would probably want a chat about a $100k improvement to the home.
So, $94k investment to yield a $2k benefit? How much extra power would you sell to the grid?
@@geraldfrost4710 A lot depends on the roof size, but angle and obstacles are a factors too. Some quick math, Florida power at $0.12/kwh comes to about 45 kwh/day. Given a 5 hour/day solar equivalent, they would need at least a 9 kw system. With the losses of ac/dc conversion, storage round trip, ... another 10-20% should be budgeted. The video quoted Luma at $4.50/w. For that price the roof would be around 22kw. Call it double what is needed and sell the rest back. You aren't going to get the same rate for net negative power, nor get negative taxes and fees. Say you get $0.06 / kwh, it would be worth about $1k/yr. You will still need to make up a base hookup fee, so that might cost $200, or so, per year. Year end net should be around $800, with very large error bars.
So you basically don't break even until 55 years in and even then...you'll need to replace components after a few decades. You won't recoup any of your investment within your lifetime.
Seems like a waste of money to be honest.
@@internettoughguy My solar "roof" in Phoenix will break even in 9 years. Its a shade structure using conventional solar panels. See my comment above.
@@paulogden7417 That's because it didn't cost you $100K. It all comes down to how much the initial investment is. After a certain dollar amount it becomes pointless.
Efficiency has to be factored in as well . Depending on your homes' layout buying a whole roof can be a waste of money compared to a traditional set of panels that are oriented properly. Its really important to compare different systems and your specific requirements to maximize ROI.
Exactly. I’m happy to have more options on the table just to get more quotes. I’m sure there are homes where solar shingles will make sense while others will want panels.
More options is almost never a bad thing.
Yeah, the further from the equator you are, the more one side of a solar roof is a total waste. I do solar installation in the midwest for a living, and we don't put panels on the north side of a house. You're just blowing money on space that won't generate enough to ever offset its cost.
North facing roofs would be installed with normal shingles/slates. South facing with solar slates. They might look different from your personal drone but you can never see both sides from the ground so would anyone care?
@@Dave5843-d9m That would make sense for my house.
@@Jackissoocool what about west facing only ? for the midwestern or SLC ut usa 🇺🇸?
Thank you for making this video! I’ve been researching solar panels vs. roofs, as I’d love to have a solar roof, but my standard roof still has an estimated 25 years on it. I appreciate you laying everything out and highlighting the industry-leading manufactures-as well as differentiating them from each other.
Once again, just as when I bought my Model 3, your channel has proved invaluable!
Not sure if people will realize that the picture of the "house in Iowa" at 10:54 is literally the house in Grant Wood's painting "American Gothic" with the old farmer with the pitchfork and his daughter standing in front. This iconic house can be visited in Eldon, Iowa.
Thats actually super cool. Thanks for sharing that!
If I get a new/old house that needs a replacement roof I'd give it a good look. Otherwise its got to be solar panels and a good roof orientation.
Solar panels are too good to pass up. They look good and produce a lot of power. Check out Aptos Solar. All black premium panels for a great price.
And ensure that you don't have too many trees shading the roof.
@@JBoy340a or of most of your roof is pointed the wrong way
Solar isn't worth it and takes decades to break even, and by then you'll need to replace them anyways with whatever the new and more efficient technology is hot.
They also degrade extremely fast and make your house look very ugly and harder to sell.
@@BoleDaPole hey, buddy, you might want to come up with some new anti-solar talking points that didn't come out of 2010.
With the problem of tiles heating up, I wonder if they could be combined with a solar water heater sollution to make use of the heat and remove it from the tiles.
Though, a "Water Cooled Roof" sounds like a Linus Tech Tips project.
IIRC Linus has said that he found something like that to be a possible project, I don't know if he was planning to do it himself or had found actual tiles that double up like that though.
They already make them, they're called PVT (Photo Voltaic Thermal). Can't remember who makes them but they are the most efficient option available.
There's a French company in Marseilles that makes them. It's called DualSun.
It is definitely possible, but often isn't worth the extra cost, especially considering that replacing a broken tile/panel is a much more difficult job generally.
The main problem is that by the time the solar thermal is hot enough to give useful heat it is already too hot for the PV.
If you're in a rural area, don't stick the panels on the roof. Rural implies that you have open land. Install them on unused land, and add a power shed. That's a shed where you install your inverters & batteries. Also, you can use lower cost solar panels, and older & cheaper batteries. Yes, they're bulkier, but its not moving, so who cares.
Its all off the shelf stuff. And people in rural areas know how to use tools, so there's savings on labor cost. Do it yourself. Bet you wish they still had shop class, in school.
Good advice
No need for batteries, though, if you’re connected to a utility. For most people, I’d advise getting a simple, grid-tie only system. If money isn’t a concern, or there’s high, time of use utility bills, the newer, smart batteries could be worth looking at.
@@adlockhungry304 it all depends on how many power-cuts you deal with, and if the feed-in rate is wholesale or consumer priced.
@@kaitlyn__L, agreed. I’m in CA, where interest in smart batteries was pretty low till PG&E started having scheduled blackouts during times of high fire hazard. Also, time of use rates finally got high enough that an expensive smart battery or two began to make financial sense.
@@adlockhungry304 oof. I can understand why they do that, the huge relays can spark sometimes, but ouch. Plus as wildfire seasons get worse and worse with the whole climate thing that’s just going to happen more and more :(
In the UK where I live wildfires of course not a factor (…yet?), although the feed-in tariff is 3-4p/kWh while the usage tariff is like… well it was 12-15p but recently it’s like at least 20. So if you have enough battery capacity it can pay for itself versus the tariff disparity, plus of course you can still get feed-in payments when the battery is full but the sun is still up.
But regular power-cuts is pretty much reserved for the super-rural houses (of course that’s still a sizeable number of people it could help; even keeping your freezer from thawing in a powercut can save £50-200 in groceries after all).
Had to replace a roof last year, still no good options for an affordable solar roof and I have plenty of land for ground mount so all my solar is ground mounted. $8k for a new roof, was installed in 2 days with a 25 year warranty. 10kw of ground mounted solar installed myself for less than $4k and maintenance is easy. For those that only have space for roof mount the prices still need to come down but a new standard roof and standard roof mounted solar is probably cheaper than any of these solar roof options until the pricing and install becomes more mainstream. The pricing is still very much early adopter territory.
Here in Cali a standard metal roof install is “$1500/ square”
God knows what solar roof would be.
We have off grid. Panels up on the hill.
I live in a geodesic dome and only a few panels do more than I need, even in the woods with intermittent shade all day.
I like the shade
Ground mount isn't practical for anyone on less than a multi-acre property, and honestly it's still kind of problematic for other reasons even if you do have plenty of wide-open unshaded space. Honestly I'd recommend putting it on anything solid and elevated, even if you have to build a whole new shed, barn or awning to do it.
Right now it depends where you live, but a solar roof is roughly the same price as a roof + solar in my area. They need to bring costs down enough to compete with those people pondering an upgrade on one or the other.. like people that want solar but their roof probably has 5-10 years of life left, or people that just need a roof and can look at it as a chance for a discounted electric bill too. Right now it feels a bit wasteful to make the leap.
@@EileenTheCr0w I only have an acre and a half and even with that it's plenty of space but obviously ground mount doesn't work for everyone. I would also need to remove 3 or 4 trees to do roof mounted and I would rather keep the trees. The shade they provide my house is worth it. Cost for ground mount framing doesn't have to be that expensive depending on where you live. I used helical screws so no concrete involved and it can all be easily removed if need be down the road and recycled.
It's amazing that GAF didn't just make matching shingles that you can cut to go with the solar shingles. If they did that, their system would really blend in with the roof and not look so slapped on 11:31.
The best engineering solutions are always the one's that have the least compromise but when you're asking a product to be two distinctly different things- a roof and a solar power generator- compromise is inevitable.
Complexity is a b*tch. Most probably are fine just with regular solar panels.
THIS
Flying car anyone? I think it should be possible to better integrate conventional panels into a roof. My roof is basically an asphalt membrane with concrete tiles over it. Those concrete tiles act as a shield against UV and abrasion damage for the membrane. Water will largely run over them but they are certainly not a waterproof layer. I cannot see why they can't be supplanted by solar panels. The issue might be with a need for free air flow under the panels but that should be achievable. The panels should be able to sit a little bit off the impermeable membrane. American house design needs to change to make sure there are ample, clean roof areas facing South, and potentially put in panel standoffs as part of construction.
@@errcoche Will people want a complete roof that will need to be replaced every 15-25 years? Rooves are covered in things like slate, steel concrete for a reason. They last.
@@alunjones2550 Depends where you are. Panels are generally warranted for 25 years and American shingle roofs don't last that long. My US concrete tile roof lasted 30 years
I’ve been a solar installer for 20 years and always been skeptical of the various solar tiles/shingles I’ve seen over the years, but a couple of these products seem as though they could be promising. I’ll call myself ‘cautiously optimistic’ now. :)
Which ones look promising to you?
@@fparent, From a purely design and practical application standpoint, the GAF energy module seems promising because the wiring is accessible from above. A tremendous weakness of most solar tiles is that they’re plugged together under the tiles. This makes troubleshooting the electrical, replacing faulty or damaged wiring, or replacing a faulty module much, much easier.
There are still some downsides:
A). Who the heck is GAF energy? What does a 20 or 30 year warranty amount to if the company is here one day and gone the next?
B) If GAF (a name that seems doomed to failure, btw) does stick around, are they really going to maintain enough back stock of their original product to replace like for like when honoring their warranty 20 years down the line? It’s very possible they could do this by making sure their new products follow the same mechanical form factor and don’t stray too far off the same electrical specifications, such that they can send the current model they offer in place of your faulty, older model. That’s possible, but what assurances do you have of their future course of action in a world of rapidly changing technology?
Sorry, I gotta go, or I’d address one or two others. Maybe later, if I remember. :)
this is basically the same reason why i haven't got solar either, it's either tesla or some unknow people, it's why i hate certain markets because then your just in a market with companies you never heard of
@@knightwolf3511, LG and Sonnen are two large, well known electronics companies that come to mind, who make this type of battery. If they do leave the home battery market, at least you’re more likely to receive support on an existing product, unlike a company founded for the purpose of selling such batteries; if they go away, so does the warranty and service support.
An example of that with inverters, and now PV panels, apparently, would be Sharp. Sharp made their own PV inverter back in the early to mid 2000’s, but ultimately decided it wasn’t worth it for them to be in that market. It was only about five years ago when I could no longer get parts to repair those inverters. Hard to be sure, as there are no 100% safe bets, but with Sonnen and LG I reckon there’s a better chance of receiving that type of support even if they ultimately bail on the market.
@@adlockhungry304 GAF Energy is a Standard Industries company, I wouldn't worry too much about them disappearing anytime soon. GAF is one of the largest roofing companies in North America, their solar shingle is an evolution of their EverGuard solar membrane which has been around for at least 10 years. We were considering the Tesla roof (own a Model Y and will be purchasing a second one this year) but leaning now towards the GAF. Our 19 year old Florida roof is in need of replacing, so seems like a good time to do it!
My experience was overall good. It did take a lot longer than I would have like to get in installed. I put the deposit down in October 2020, the roof was installed in June 2021 and active in December 2021. Its an 8.7 KW system with two power walls. The total cost after rebates was 36k.
What happened between installation and becoming active?
In a heavily populated area ?
@@dansands8140 yeah, missed out on summer !
That price is ridiculous compared to other options.
@@davidpearn5925 No, I mean, why wasn't it immediately active?
Actually the 1st integrated solar roof was installed by my company CSI in 1979. It was solar thermal not photovoltaic. The solar panel was laid between rafters 24 inches on center generally about 16 ft long. We did several hundred of these systems generally 300 to 600 sf
for space heating in New England. Worked great. My 5000sf office in NH was 100 percent solar for over 25 years
Would love to discuss more with you on this. Can we work together to achieve a solar roofing sheets?
The main advantage of solar roof over solar shingle is the air gap. This small detail drastically helps keep home cool in hot areas.
@@boblatkey7160 bullshit, lmao. Normal roof + solar panels is $20k-30k. Every quote I've seen for a Tesla roof is $50k+.
@@boblatkey7160 the meaning of your original comment is extremely unclear, it seems like an argument in favor of solar shingles.
I said "roof + panels", not just panels. It's not fair to compare the price of solar shingles to just the panels, half the job of the solar shingles is to be a roof.
The solar roof tiles have an air gap. Meanwhile, if you have issues with keeping the roof cool in hot areas, the best fix is half pound foam. It lasts forever, is easily installed in a single day and surprisingly cost effective. I did it on my house in Arizona. It’s also a superb deterrent against any water leaks in your roof (which makes a lot of sense if you want to move to solar panels later on).
Tesla Solar Roof Owner in Massachusetts. Went with Solar Roof because the shingles had to be replaced within a couple of years. was definitely a process to get it. But in the end it was worth it.
Our solar dealer in Massachusetts talked us away from Solar Roof and stick with panels because of the consideration that the solar roof wasn't a great idea with the harsh winters in Massachusetts. Have you found that to be a concern thus far?
@@ToddRafferty what was their argument that panels handle winter better?
Woke.
@@ToddRafferty My install was completed in November. One major thing about the solar roof is that the snow slides off the roof, so I have mini Avalanches when we get lots of snow. It can be loud/alarming, but it is also a good thing since a covered up roof wont produce electricity. The pitch of my roof is not steep at all, so if you had a steep roof pitch, I'm sure the snow wouldn't build up as much and would slide off sooner. But going with the Solar roof I think I was able to fit a larger system on my home vs going with traditional panels. All in all, I've been very happy with my systems performance so far. Not sure how our harsh winters would effect the solar roof negatively. The Obvious possible downside is hail damage, but there's a video on golf ball sized hail in Texas that did no damage to the solar roof.
Thanks for sharing Duy Truong! The people I've heard from who have the solar roof all love it.
We are happy with our Tesla Solarroof. It produces a lot of electricity and the cost was within $1000 or a replacement tile roof, which is the standard in our neighborhood and was the target from the beginning with the Solarroof. We also added a couple of Powerwalls for which there was a discounted install since they were installing the inverters and solar wiring anyway. So far the roof and Powerwalls have performed as advertised and reduced our power bill dramatically. We pay about $30/mo, most of which is the grid interconnect charges. In previous summer months, we have paid close to $500 because the high temps drove us into the higher cost tier rates.
The installation was done well even though it was started in March 2020 right before the pandemic hit and the county stopped all work mid-install. Thankfully, solarroof installs start with putting down a waterproof membrane, and that finished install just as the stop work order came down. After a month they let the Tesla team come back and completed the installation.
That sounds awesome. What company did you use, did you reach out directly to Tesla or a local roofing company? I'm contemplating going that route as I will likely need a new Tile Roof after Hurricane Ian in SWFL and it sounds like the cost maybe very similar
Even if all roof was fitted with solar tiles when it is built new or renovated it would take 50 to 60 years before most roofs would be solar.
That means we are still in the early adopter stage for at least another 10 years. When you add that up front cost will be higher it would be a miracle if 1 % of the roofs built the next 10 years are built with solar tiles, but it will still be a multi billion marked that need many suppliers.
This is why more places need to pass laws to mandate all new construction have solar. We can’t leave it up to the free market to decide when to switch. Not with our emissions where they currently are…
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet no. That’s asinine. That prices more people out of the market and would serve only to drive up costs. Solar still doesn’t pay off everywhere. For me it will be a 10+ year breakeven - I can afford this, but in absolutely no way should that be mandatory.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet Sound good, but it do not work without a major subsidize support. If not directly it will be needed for building infrastructure. Already many areas have trouble with the amount of back-feed to the grid a real sunny day give. Large scale storage is also needed and it cost a lot.
Based on raw material demand we have probably already seen the lowest prize on solar installment, unless they can find a lot cheep way to produce solar panels.
Correct. Given that most homes waste 80-90% of their energy, most of each installation is just to get a discount on all that waste, like throwing most of a giant Costco toilet paper purchase out the window on the way home. Stupid, right? What's the ROI of a flatscreen TV or stone countertops or a new car? Generally zero or less. ROI on energy efficiency is highest, and cutting the fat and eliminating waste moves the PV ROI to just a few years. Efficiency and then PV. Doing the wrong things right is still wrong, right?
@@DK-vx5co That you would survive if you did not use some energy is not the same as it is wasted. Also what is wasted will be very different around the world.
What you put into the calculation is often more a philosophic then a practical question.
my biggest issue with solar roof shingles is what happens in 10 years when a panel breaks? Is the company still in business? do they still make the tile you bought, or do you have to make do with a different tile, if that's even possible?
exactly. What happens when all of the installs fail around year 5-7? That company is not going to exist to honor any of the warranties.
@@joegreene6250 How long do you think solar panels last...?
@@spacebound1969 yes but I'd guess that replacing a solar roof isn't as easy as just replacing a solar panel.
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 The shingles are mini solar panels essentially that mount to a track like a normal solar panel. The process is the same.
We are 3 years from building our remote dream home while still close enough to town to zip in for whatever, whenever, without making it an excursion.
We're Roof Tiles &/or ground based solar arrays.
Here are some considerations:
* We can't chose a product until we find the land (our design is flexible)
* We've researched solar companies from the US to Germany
* No to a deposit as we may find they won't install in our location when finalized
* Lining up contractors to install may not line up w/ our build schedule
* We're told different stories as to what our best options are
We will be SOLAR/BATTERY/COMBINATION ONLY & fully independent of land based power/run on solar while charging the batteries by day/run on batteries ALL night
We want redundancy built in so if we are servicing part of the array, we will never be without power. We're told; You can't do that by some, while others want to work with us.
Candie ^..^
You're in a great spot. Looking for land and the home hasn't been designed/built yet is exciting. I work for a company that designs high performance homes (think Net Zero) and does solar. The envelope of the home for efficiency is so important. When you start talking to builders the make or break areas of your home are going to be the foundation and the roof. Most homes are built with bad Thermal Bridging. So even if they have insulation between the studs the heat/cold is coming right through the frame and roof. When the wife and I build a home the foundation and roof have to be thermally bridged. The expense there pays off in needing a smaller HVAC system, less solar panels and more comfortable environment. A lof of home builds here in Arkansas are going to with higher end metal roofs so that they don't need to factor in a roof replacement. Co-worker just did a ground mount system since he's got the yard for it. New home build would be pretty trivial to trench from the ground array to your meter. All comes down to the aesthetics really. I'm excited for your family
Great update, Matt. Recall that a yr ago I really needed a new roof but after contract and just before install, Tesla raised my Solar roof price by 60%. I installed asphalt roof, no solar. Now a yr later, Tesla has offered my original price, too late. Tesla is an OK company, but mitigate the frustration by knowing up front that they have an “over promise and under deliver” business model. Same goes for Cybertruck.
I honestly admire how much Tesla has been able to push the envelope and embarrass bigger companies into doing more climate friendly things…but I don’t like them as a company (due to how much they overhype stuff) and think Elon is a very bad manager.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet Find any company or group of companies that even comes close to Elon's companies then let us know if they're bad at management.
Tesla is a fraud based business model.
There really aren't many corporations bigger than Tesla..
@@BoleDaPole Tesla not even in top 50 of worlds largest companies based on annual revenue. But I was talking about product delivery, over promise yet under deliver.
Excellent Review!! Spent a year messing with Tesla… complicated 7,000 sf tile roof in Florida. Our PM was a young lady from… Las Vegas? At the Tesla only had black systems… hard to get through HOA… then price changed. And then we canceled. Our roof is 22 years old and has maybe 5 years of useful life remaining. I thought this was the perfect time to go solar… need the technology to catch up…. Efficiency needs to be in 20% range to make viable for large homes…
People need to avoid any homes in areas with HOAs, so much so that HOAs will end up lowering home values rather than raising them. That should be the goal.
Standard PV modules are currently exceeding 20% efficiency
I'm personally excited to try designing and putting together my own Solar Garden, using solar panels over rows of shade plants and making a tilting array to help follow the sun. I was inspired by one of your previous videos showing farm lands doubling up the land usage.
I understand that a ground-mounted PV system can get the federal tax credit also. So, if there happens to be plants under, or an outdoor seating area, so much the better.
@@boblatkey7160 Right. Set it and forget it.
I was so excited to learn something from this video (as a solar roofing specialist in the residential market) and walked away so incredibly disappointed. Every single positive thing that Matt has to say about "solar shingles" or whatever we're supposed to call them came from a sales brochure. I sincerely challenge Matt to prove me wrong and show me a single "fact" about the efficacy of this roofing material which didn't come from the person trying to sell it.
Every "solar roof" technology on display in this video requires A PRE-EXISTING ROOF ON TOP OF WHICH the "solar roofing materials" will be installed. If you aren't laughing already, buckle in. Yes, the "solar roof" can only be built upon an existing "normal roof". If you don't believe me, just look at the images of the roof installations on display in this video. The narrator says BS like "easier to install" while showing you a video of not one, not two, not three, not four, but FIVE installers on a very small roof, with yards of wiring spilling out into every direction, confidently telling you "SEE?!?! I told you this would be easier than just installing a regular roof". Oh, and at the very same time, the narrator fraudulently implies that the price you pay for the "solar roofing shingles materiel" or whatever includes the cost of interconnecting all of this PV equipment into the grid, such that you can actually do something productive with the solar capacity. False.
So basically you need to have a fully intact roof, then you get to install your fake "solar roof" on top of your "real roof" (which is literally identical in function to putting solar panels on your roof, except it's more expensive and less insurable, but who cares about my opinion), and then you have to pay to wire that "fake" "real" roof into your home's electric system.
But when I say I'm disappointed, it's not because people like Matt are so obviously and completely duped by sales pitches. It's because Matt clearly doesn't care at all whether he's been duped or not. It's clear that he simply prefers the easy and comforting reality of the salesmen, where all of the fantastic breakthroughs are "just around the corner" and "any day now" the amazing promise of all of these mind-blowing technologies will be unleashed "as soon as we give these very trustworthy and definitely not biased entities the money they so desperately need in order to overcome their inexplicably high customer acquisition costs which are definitely one quarter the cost of an entire residential solar installation," and I am definitely not literally laughing out loud at the notion that one quarter of the entire dollar cost of a residential solar installation should go towards "customer acquisition" costs. And no, just to confirm, I am still not laughing at that utterly absurd claim.
I really wish you had covered how these systems handle hailstone impacts and other hard weather events.
Traditional solar panels are extremely resistant to hail and other impacts (way better than normal shingle roofs) so I would assume these are similar.
Anything the size of a grape or smaller shouldn't do anything to them. Maybe a small mark.
On a previous video which I believed that he referenced in this one they demonstrated that the Tesla solar tiles were extremely durable against things like hail. We have no solar but have been talking about it for 20 years....
Good video for alternatives for Solar Roof's. We installed the Tesla Solar Roof v3 and Powerwall system as our roof needed replacement after 27 years of GAF shingles. Took two weeks for old roof removal and install in July 2021 and received final PTO in Feb 2022. Working well so far.
I like the idea of solar panels but I won't be getting any in the near future.
My electricity bill is $100 max a month in the summer (summers here average over 90°F (32° C) daily) and under $50 in the winter (above freezing 99% of the time). I have a metal roof and energy efficient air conditioner that has saved me 20-30% monthly on electricity. In the winter, my electricity bill goes down to less than $50 a month due to gas heating which only goes up ~$20 a month in the winter.
My hope in the future is that the energy storage will improve to the point that I can completely go off the grid electrically. I feel we are close.
Honestly, I’m just excited for any innovation in the solar market. Some of it will move us forward and some of it will end up going nowhere, but that’s ok.
When I can eventually buy a house, I’ll just grab quotes from all the tech that’s available and make a decision then. Currently, it looks like the efficiency, installation cost, and maintenance cost would push me towards panels, but who knows what 5 years of innovation will bring!
I’m also not one of those people who thinks that panels “look ugly” though so I can see how someone else would push for panels.
Remember our conversation on Not Just Bikes, latest video, Strong Towns 7!
Hello again! I'm the environmentalist student of economics!
The laws of physics will always be in effect, no matter what the hopes and wishes on innovations are. Apart from (arguably) looking nicer than solar panels, solar shingles bring nothing else to the table. I'm an engineer, seems to be a trend when replying to your comment.
Logically these roofs need to be on new-builds and could be incorporated into building codes alongside improvements in insulation, glazing, heat pumps, geothermal, underfloor heating etc.
Glad to see the technology improving and becoming more cost effective. But, black shingles, directly attached to the roof, with no thermal barrier, during 110 degree AZ summers is a deal breaker, IMO. Now, expensive EPF insulation is required to compensate, assuming that there is an attic with inside access to the rafters.
IMO, roofs are roofs and PV panels should be mounted on solar trackers for maximum efficiency. The best option would be a solar carport with a tracking array to shade and protect vehicles from the elements.
Otherwise, why can't PV panels be white?
A house should have an insulated roof these days
When solar roofs can be installed via DIY, that's when it will take over as the best option. It's a young product yet. But it continues to get better.
It’ll almost never be full DIY, but I could see most of the instal being DIY and then you have to call an electrician to do an inspection and the final hookup.
But I agree, even getting to that point would likely drive sales up like crazy!
Solar PV systems can run at up to 1000V DC and need to connect to the AC installation within a house. It's not really a DIY job, unless you're cool with things setting on fire
You could do it yourself assuming you can acquire the tiles. The GAF solution may make that easier. And plenty of people install their own solar panels, inverters, etc.
One thing you failed to mention (in my area is a summer/winter certainty), is how do these solar panels/shingles hold up to weather, such as hail, snow, sub-zero (F) temperatures. A big considerations for homeowners in these climates.
Supposedly they are better at resisting Hail than asphalt roofing.
They do well.
Is there a practical reason (other than that mixing electricity and water isn't necessarily a good idea) why photovoltaic-thermal hybrids aren't more common. Especially in hot sunny climates? If the panels loose efficiency when they get hot, why not integrate a cooling circuits to heat, or even just preheat water before it goes to a boiler? Granted this would increase the cost of a panel, but you would potentially also need less of them.
It varies by season obviously but I estimate that around 50% of my electricity goes to heating water. So Instead of say having two PV panels, one which is just heating water, you could have a one single panel doing both while potentially increasing both the efficiency and lifespan of the PV cells by keeping them cool and reducing thermal cycling. The 2=1 math here is obviously a gross oversimplification
The cost per wh isn't going to be good in such a system. You can also just generate electricity directly from the heat (or I should say, heat differential) like what an RTG does. Again, neither systems are useful unless you have obscene money and want the single most efficient system for the sake of efficiency.
Like GAF, Certainteed is an old line asphalt roofing company. Nice to see that both of them are looking to the future.
I just wish they provided more numbers and info on their product. It all sounds great in the hype ads, but they are really sketchy on providing price, output, and efficiency or long term stats for their solar tiles.
I wish you had mentioned snow sliding off slick roofing. Starting in 2005 I installed traditional panels, flush mounted, on my house and detached shop near Denver--snow country!. Most winters I have had an avalanche of snow sliding off the panels, despite having at least a foot of asphalt exposed at the foot of the panels as well as gutters. Fortunately all exterior door are under cover, because the avalanches could seriously harm someone.
I don’t think solar tiles are for me. Waaay too expensive. I think I’ll stick with old school panels which are much for affordable and honestly, when neatly installed they don’t look too bad anyway. Besides, then I can ‘virtue-signal’ so that all my neighbors know I care about the environment! 😉
I don't even understand why people hates on solar panels with no reason, they can be very well installed to look slik.
Its just complicating an already complicated system.
Yes. Better to keep pay the Saudis for that energy bill every month, have it double every 10 years or so, and then again and again, have a lot of air leakage and bug leakage and drafts and hot and cold spots. Definitely the short cut of the lucky person with limitless money to waste. The Simpsons aren't' going to watch themselves every night. (wink emoji face, etc.)
@@DK-vx5co lol….. oil is not just used for energy but actually millions of applications, there are tons and tons of oil byproducts that electricity cannot replace.
Solar tiles are better suited for people who are replacing their roofs or are building new. I'm in the latter and I too dislike how the panels look on a regulator roof. So with the money saved from not having to purchase roof tiles, I consider that a win-win situation.
I really appreciate an honest objective review of this market and specifically anything Tesla. Too often Tesla product reviews are done by fanboys who can't objectively review the product because it's more of a showcase how much they love Tesla than a critical honest review. "I didn't mind paying an extra $15000 because this UA-cam video will easily pay for that"
Couldn’t agree more. Much of the internet seems blinded by the Tesla brand so they have trouble acknowledging when another company offers a competitive product at a better price and with better on time delivery.
I had 2 local solar companies come by my house to do an estimate for install. They were going to install 21 panels on my roof to meet my demand. I had to cancel my install because it was going to cost me double per month what I'm paying in electric and gas total for the next 15-20 years. I don't know how solar is a cost viable option for anyone. At $150/month for 15 years is $27k, and even if my bill goes up to $200/month that $36k. While solar install @ $50k for 15 years is $277/month, and that's not counting having a battery backup which can add an extra $10-$15k, so I'm paying more per month and still losing power during a blackout, so I'm seeing no benefits and more cost. Since my state and county require me to stay tied into the grid, I don't actually get refunded for the excess power I output for them, I only get credited for when I'm not overproducing. So if I want solar, I have to buy it all and install it myself, but my power company has to approve and sign off on it.
Yeah, you're facing a set of serious obstacles that will take time, money, and effort to overcome. I'm puzzled by a legal requirement to remain tied to the grid, though. That sounds like a situation just asking for a lawsuit to reverse it, and there seems to be no reasonable justification for such a requirement, leading one to assume that was a law purchased by utility-funded lobbyists.
sounds like your getting ripped off, 21 panels for 50k, thats nuts
@@robertbowman9108 agreed.
We need more competition and streamlining of the permitting process. I installed an 82 panel system for $59000 after incentives. The learning process, the permitting and dealing with the utility were all challenges. Its saving me $6300 per year, while providing passive cooling for my house. But its not a solar roof, its a shade structure. A solar roof would have been harder for me to do and increased the risk of a roof leak. Not everybody has the space for this, nor the clear sunshine nor the solar incentives of Phoenix where I live. I think that anyone who is building a large, custom (energy hog) home in the southwest should have solar integrated into the build. It pays even without help from the utility, and its the right thing to do.
$50k? We do a 6.6kW system in Australia for like $4-5000 Australian dollars.
Good video, thanks for showing multiple options and being level-headed about the pros and cons. Additional point: There is no air space between the solar tiles/shingles and the roof. This overheats the structure of the house and increases AC loads. Solar panels allow a few inches of air space and actually cool the roof, reducing AC loads. This has been documented in a study (San Diego State U, I believe) as reducing AC costs by about 5%. So it's hard to justify buying a more expensive roof, with more wiring connections (points of possible failure) and increasing the heat load on the house, compared to solar panels. It can make sense when you must get a new roof, but even then, still hard to justify. If you don't need a new roof, I can't foresee the situation in which I would recommend it. (14 yrs experience in solar, including BIPV mfg sales mgt)
Saw a video about Tesla roof where they said it was of from the roof so air could pass under
@@Gustav4 they're still evolving the products, so it's hard to say. But every time I have asked I have been told by the manufacturer, whether Tesla, DOW, GAF, Eagle, or others, that there is no airspace. If one of the manufacturers would engineer a product that has ventilation space I will be sure to espouse it.
Not to mention that embedding the panels directly into the shingles seems like a maintenance nightmare.
Dont forget about the lower efficiency of the panels themselves. Learned about that in at Uni. In-roof solars loose about 2-5% performance compared to on-roof panels
There is a 3/4 inch gap between the roof and the bottom of the tile with small vents at the drip edge and ridge. It's not alot of air flow but there is some. The ice and water shield makes more of an impact on AC than the actual tiles.
In my opinion, modularity is the best route. I have a start up company that is producing a housing unit for solar panels themselves. The housing unit itself is made in response to the architecture of the roof. It reinforces the current structural integrity and while initial installation maybe a bit high, being able to add or remove panels from the housing unit is going to make future upgrades/fixes so much easier. Cheers to hopefully a future that we can be proud of!
I'll need a new roof in about 10 years. Hopefully, solar roofs will be commonplace at that point.
Same here
Having a $1200 iPhone is common place these days. Doesn't mean it's a good investment.
@@damirs3430 My point concerns the availability of solar roofs, not the cost.
I do not think so, they pay the sub companies and assemblers far too little. Especially in Europe.
1. PV systems require specially trained electricians / certificates not everyone is allowed to install them and solar roofs need extra qualifications to do so.
2. a PV system electrical testing is already not easy with normal systems and with small module designs a disaster.
3. there are other easier jobs for electricians that are paid much better. (Office equipment testing or smoke detectors, etc. There is enough nonsense in Europe).
Question about the GAF panels... how easy are they to replace when broken? Part of the draw for me on the Tesla roof is easy maintenance/repair.
answered in the video
@@paulogden7417 And the upgradeability. In 10 years you might be able to upgrade the roof to a more efficient tile
I really like the idea of the Tesla solar roof, and when I found out my roof was at the end of its lifespan two years ago, I signed up to get one on the Tesla website. But after two years on the wait list, plus the roof seemingly not available in northern Ohio, plus the increase in cost, plus the poor customer service, plus the multiple of problems people seem to have with installations, plus Elon Musk acting like a jerk on Twitter, I decided to get a new traditional asphalt roof and solar panels. I am comfortable with this decision and it was probably actually cheaper than the solar roof anyway.
You are a traitor to the American way! JK. Musk is a liar AND a jerk.
That's too bad. Energy costs are going up and supplies are dirtier and more expensive from extraction to final usage and all the waste along the way. Just a little war has made gas prices rocket up and things are getting worse. When a home needs a new roof is the perfect time to ween from the Saudi teet. Better yet, get in there and do a little bit of energy efficiency and air sealing and you might eliminate 20-40% of the demand in the first place, for decades to come, and have a more comfortable and healthy home to boot. As Covey said, begin with the end in mind.
@@DK-vx5co I wish that I could have made it work, but my roof wasn't going to wait.
Tesla quoted me a very reasonable number, then doubled it in part because they made powerwalls mandatory (I rarely see any power outages and my utility pays the same rate for solar spillover as it charges for power). Then I got the plans, and it was a much smaller array and 80% of the PV tiles were on north facing slopes. The net result was the expected power was 20% of my needs. They claimed they couldn’t install on the southern exposures, but that’s not true. And the southern exposures had fewer obstructions (vents, etc).
If I’m getting solar tiles, I’m getting ones that look good. Otherwise I’d just get solar panels. That’s the best part of Tesla tiles
Solar roofs are one of those items that I like the idea of, but still at this point due to cost will opt more likely for panels instead. I would agree with you, they are just another piece of the overall puzzle.
I have already used regular solar panels to make a roof and are planning to do more. My first one is just a verandah roof sealed with silicon on the outside. It is cooler than my other arrays due to open air flow underneath. Is also easy to work on and configure wiring from below. I've been off grid for decades and now have a fully working camel dairy running off solar wind and Ni fe batteries.
I use older second hand panels because I have lots of space for them especially now they are being used as roofing to boot.
Still need to work on a nicer connecting /sealing system.
Thanks for your show BTW
Regards Warwick
Excellent! I was thinking of this for a carport. Bottom mount the panels and space with tile x bits. Long lasting silicone or adhesive roof tape should work...glad to know it does.😊
As a consumer, I'm not going to pay extra for a roof to save money on electricity if the savings don't outweigh the cost... If the electric company wants us to do this to help them with their growing needs, they can foot the bill.
You're footing the bill for the solar panels that your utility company is buying for themselves.
Solar roofs have been around for a long time. I remember looking at solar roof products 10-15 years ago when I put solar on my camper. The company made thin film solar on an aluminum substrate. I think the company was one of the pioneers of thin film solar. They had two roofing products. A 3 tab asphalt shingle, and standing seam metal roof. The standing seam solar panels came in a roll with a sticky back. All you did to install it was drill a hole in the a roof panel for the wire. Peal off the back. Stick it between the ridges on the metal roof. Because they curved, I was think about sticking them on the curve of the camper roof. California started using the solar shingles on park/beach small buildings like toilets to avoid vandalism that the regular more visible solar panels attracted.
The company was Uni-Solar. They where founded in 1960 as ECD. I'm not sure when they started making solar roofing. My guess is before 2000(They say 1997). There sales peaked in 2008 as the largest thin film solar manufacturer in the world. They went bankrupt in 2012. So when Musk acted like solar roofs was a new idea, I rolled my eyes. I have to admit that the Tesla solar roof looks better then Uni-Solar roofs did.
An interesting aside, another division of ECD, Ovonics made the NiMH batteries for the EV-1.
Yes. 10-15 years ago is ancient history, like Fortran and Cobol.
"The definitely look like a solar roof, but for some people that's the whole point." It's important to let your neighbors know that you're better than they are!! 😅 😂 🤣
I don't know how many years, and how wasteful with the "free" energy I would need to be for a $100k solar roof to ever pay for itself.
Ultimately, being in the midwest is fairly green. There are massive wind farms in every direction around my city.
My home is in Minnesota - extreme weather and temperature swings. We recently moved into our home and based on the pre-purchase home inspection replaced our roof shingles. We went with an upgraded class 4 impact resistant shingle with a 20 year warranty with a total cost of $18,300 (39 square). Fast forward two years and last Summer we were approached by a company (Everlight) to add PV Solar panels to our roof. These panels would go over our existing new roof. I called my roof installer and the solar panel install would void the warranty in the areas where the PV panels were installed. Now this system would not store the energy onsite it would sell the power back to my power company (Xcel). Some months, between the monthly payment for the panels and our Xcel bill I would come out even, some ahead (get a rebate or credit from Xcel) and other months (likely Winter with less daily Sun and more demand to power the heating system) we would have a Xcel bill albeit smaller.
The solar array would have been $25,000 hoping to get $6,500 back in a rebate. The fact that the install of the array would void our roof warranty and the fact that this area does get damaging hail we chose to not move forward with adding solar at this time. We believe that the panels will become more efficient in the future thus needing less roof area to power the homes needs.
It was an interesting experience walking through the process and we seriously considered adding the panels. I offered to simply add an array on the 3.5 car garage alone but Everlight didn’t seem interested in a partial power array.
Your insurance pays for Hail damage, your roof warranty only covers leaks due to their error (which is why drilling holes for solar voids it). That’s not a good reason.
@@FuncleChuck we checked with our insurance company - our insurance would pay for damage to the roof from hail not possibly / arguably caused by the panel install. Our agent also suggested it could be a challenge to get the insurance company to pay for damaged panels from hail. So that information on top of me writing a $18,500 check 18 months prior for top tier shingles and the solar system not exactly what we wanted ( we preferred energy stored onsite not sold back to Xcel) and no written guarantee the current monthly XCel rebate programs continuing indefinitely. We chose not to have a crew we didn’t know drill into our roof. Call me crazy…
Great video and you made a great point about not being the entire answer but being just part of the solution. These products must be available for new installations with out a wait so homes get built then a market for replacement will follow
My husband and I were running the numbers. It boiled down to you being “all in” or don’t do it. By “all in” I mean:
1. Add enough panels to cover 90% or more of solar needs.
2. You need a new roof.
3. Your furnace/a-c needs to be electric.
4. You need a battery bank
5. Commit to solar energy. Get electric vehicles & charge them at home
6. You have plenty of sun to keep the system charged.
7. You have power outages and are seriously thinking about add a back up generator to your house.
We figured with tax credits and “all in” approach you can make it work. Our roof dominates the look of our house (think cape cod style home). The plus is there is a great platform to install.
BTW: Agree 100% on you need a new roof. Timing is everything. You need to be replacing the roof & HVAC when it needs it not for the heck of it.
Thanks for pointing out the new Timberline product. Do you know if you can combine the Timberline roof with the Tesla batteries?
I would not install solar roofs here in Spain because of several reasons. Number one is the Calima-sandstorm that comes in and covers everything in sand and dust which means you need to clean them easily which makes solar panels the obvious choice. Secondly I want to angle the panels a bit more so I get better coverage in the winter (big big issue). Thirdly, by adding an angle and a bit of spacing under the panels I get additional shade and wind cooling of the roof in the summer months.
Thanks for the video Matt!
I wanted to share my miserable experience in installing Tesla solar. While my installation was done within 2 months or so after putting the request. It took almost 7 months to get the system working after installation! And yes, I paid the entire cost for the panel + 1 power wall, which was almost 29K in 2021.
Tesla just keeps you in dark and never calls or updates anything. During installation they told me that it might take up to 3 months to get the permission to operate, but even after 4 months nothing happened. I got really frustrated and after almost 10-15 calls to their support I finally got something going. Even after that point it took another 2 months and my project manager was completely useless. They put the blame on my local energy provider (PG&E) in my case.
After the permission was granted after 6 months, I thought I finally got the system working, but no! There was another issue, the system was not connecting to Tesla grid and my tesla app was not recognizing the system. It took another month and multiple calls to diagnose the issue and the support system is totally broken!
Well, finally after 7 months now everything seems to be working fine. While I really like the Tesla solar app this was the most miserable experience I ever had with a company. I am not sure how other companies are, but if a trusted brand like Tesla is doing this, it is miserable. At one point, I was even thinking of consulting a lawyer suspecting a scam!
I'm no engineering genius, but it occurs to me that roofs and solar panels have different functions that may not be amenable to complete integration.
yah thats why tesla solar roof had too be redesigned totally, its not an intregration more like a roof upgrade ... same functions as a good roof plus solar power and more durability and heat isolation. But the Timberline System is more like an cheap extra i would not call that a real roof. Still both have there use.
We needed a new roof badly, love the idea of solar, and in NY, the tax incentives on paper outweighed the value of an asphalt roof.
Breakdown: new best asphalt roof with highest warranty: $9,500. Tesla roof after incentives: $14,500 that came with a $10,000 Powerwall battery.
That Powerwall can run our house’s electric all night until a good part of the next day in sunny spring-to-late-fall days, so we rarely use the grid for electric until winter, where the 9kw system doesn’t get enough sun (Central NY) to charge it fully-or it’s covered in snow.
It was a no brainer-on paper.
In reality, customer service to rope you in was excellent, until you started having questions. I’d get no answers or contact from my email handler for months as I waited for email handlers to get replaced about seven or eight times in the course of March 2021 agreement to September 15 2021 installment.
Then the construction team were ready two weeks ahead of schedule to install before I got certain answers to important questions-like cost after incentives, and a few others. I had to sit in front of the contractors and fold my arms and say until I get these answers, you can’t start.
Suddenly, I had a new handler, and all the answers I needed.
We proceeded to begin.
The team was amazing! Fast, courteous, efficient. In the end, a wonderful experience-the solar roof went on, and pow! I has solar energy powering my Powerwall! The team handled final things while I was at work, packed up and left. Then I came home and did a walk-around-and looked up on the sides of my house-. They had removed-hand-cut and butchered metal trim on both sides of my house.
It looked horrible. Scissor marks at the corners where they used to be wrapped protectively around my trim. I called the main contractor several times and finally got him on the phone. He gave me a song and dance, but agreed to come back and fix it-which he did-sort of-but did a horrible job that looked nothing like the original.
I refused to pay. Tesla threatened collections until I kept calling over and over, sending pictures of what they did to them, and photos of the original trim I had to dig out of the dumpster to get. Finally, they stopped collections and agreed to fix my trim.
Then I realized-my original trim stuck out about an inch and a half in 3-d relief and wrapped around a board they removed. If the original trim was to go back up, the Tesla roof would not cover it. The contractor team had shortened my entire roof by about three inches on both sides, and covered it up (poorly) but ripping my trim off!!
So I’ve gone all winter without this fixed, and without paying (though paying interest on my loan to get the roof) they just got a local company to give an estimate to repair the trim-and he confirmed they shortened my roof, and there’s no way to get the trim looking like the original-which matched the rest of the house trim-but they could make it more secure and look better than what Tesla’s guy did.
I love my solar, but am very disappointed in this trim mess. It’s been a nightmare of endless calling and taking names and documenting everything, and being terrified of being sent to collections when I have the money-but just won’t pay until they fix their mess. One local guy had Tesla install solar panels, and paid, but due to some hiccup at the grid connector didn’t have solar for over six months and kept getting the runaround by Tesla’s customer service team. So I knew not paying was the only leverage I had to getting this matter addressed.
So it’s a year later, start to finish, we’re still not on a two-way grid bubble (so extra energy can go to the grid and make me money) since I haven’t paid, tax time is now, and I get to see if the $11,000 incentive really is what they claimed, and my trim will never look the same-but is on the works to get improved-ish.
I’ve learned to let go, as winter prevented any further work on the matter.
In short-Tesla needs to improve customer response time via email. There is a labor shortage due to Covid, so I get it, but their lack of response time has really caused unnecessary stress. That said, they ARE addressing it, and my issue has gone up the ladder, and it’s being handled (as I got their attention by holding back on paying). Hopefully, this will be resolved soon. I love the roof and Powerwall, but I’m rather over the whole mess.
That is straight crazy they shortened you’re roof lol
Solar PV should be the last option, in terms of ROI (if we're gonna play that game). Most energy pumped into homes (80-90%) is wasted; thus most of the PV production is wasted. It's like driving around with leaks in your gas tank. Energy efficiency has much faster "payback" than PV (plus all the additional health, comfort and resilience benefits); and most homes lack the roof space and orientation required when systems have to be over-sized to account for that 80-90% waste factor. Without efficiency measures, all the worry over PV is just putting band-aids on a leaky boat. Maybe that could be a discussion for one of your videos.
If people would properly install an inexpensive radiant barrier in their attic and add a little more insulation to the attic, add thermal curtains, properly seal their doorways and entrances, heck even gradually replace older windows with more energy efficient rated ones, have their water heaters on timers, empty their water heaters twice a year to remove sediment build up they would see some savings. The best part is these things can be done gradually with lesser costs.
Thanks a ton for this. We are rehabbing our 1860s family farm to be a net producer of energy in the Green Bay, WI area. Our area is not on the up and up for tech, so we’ve had to do a lot of training, and bring in consultants, for our local contractors who are the opportunity, but don’t have the skill set our knowledge.
Your videos have been helpful to get a few of them started down the technical rabbit hole.
I would challenge the notion that Tesla is a leader in Solar, they really aren't, technically or financially. Elon tends to talk a good game and is exciting to listen to, but lots of what he says never comes to fruition and never in the time frame he states. I'd go as far as to say Solar has been a complete flop for tesla as evidenced by the markets they are leaving as well as the challenges the company has with installation and service, they are a mess, I know because I have their panels.
2.3/4 years and still waiting. they already told me it won't happen in 2023. maybe it will be ready when I rebuild my home.
I’ve had solar panels installed on my roof approximately 5-6 years ago. I truly believe in clean energy and our country’s independence on fossil fuels. Ironically, now with the price of oil going through the roof my decision to have these panels installed has been a godsend. I live in New York and our electric rates have gone up 100-300%! That’s insanity! I received my electric bill this past week and it was $0! In fact, I still had a credit of several dollars. My next door neighbor recently contacted me to inquire about the panels. Apparently, she had received an electrical bill that was over $1,600! That’s absolute insanity! For those who are on the fence about solar systems, and they can have their own issues, the fact that they offer a measure of energy independence, along with a cleaner alternative, was for me a great selling point. Current world events have finally proven me right. I would caution people planning to install panels that you should install a new roof prior to installing these panels. I recently paid over $5,000 to have my panels removed and reinstalled in order to replace my roof. Solar panel leases usually run for 20 years. Quality roofs will last 20-30 years. For me that was a costly “ lessons learned “ scenario. So be forewarned!!!
Would be smarter to use the materials in large industrial installs instead of residential. On large warehouse roofs and over parking lots.
In Jax.,Fl. 1977 solar was coming to every home , business and street corner. We would not pay an electric bill. Or have to buy gas as my Citi car would be here in a couple months. Only thing that happened was solar panels on bus stop kiosks. Yes there were plans across the world but big oil had the "Embargo" and they won.
Most large structures by me are covered with solar panels. Some parking lots have shaded rows where the shades are solar panels. But, we still need/want residential solar and battery storage. For us those have eliminated most of our electrical needs. We only pay about $25-30/mo and much that is the grid connection fee.
@@JBoy340a I built a 10x22 carport down the driveway side of house in 1984 with 21 panels on it. 20 and 35 watt panels only thing out here. Ineffiecient as all get out but somewhat worked, I ran "green" 12 volt lights in and outside. I had 3 barbie doll cars running constantly 86,7,8,9. Gokart with car starter on it I built in 1990-2007. Other than small tvs' and laptops powering electronic equipment was useless or a battery bank from hell about the same size as the house was needed to store generated power. I had 10 12v 100ah trolling motor batteries The carport shading that sunny side of house brought my electric bill down $50 and more a month just for less a-c useage. Heats no problem here in Florida.Wound up with 4 100 watt,8 40watt and 7 harbor freight 15 watters Sold the house in 2012. State here passed a hidden agenda law(you know down near the bottom constrewed in a paragraph) within a major Amendnent which voters approved outlawing any "diy" solar panels and alll solar must be installed by professionals sponstered by the power companies in this state. The good ole brother-n-law act. I'm glad I never became a politician because I did think about it but I can look anyone in the eye and tell them the truth.
@@cuylerwilkinson4414 - I appreciate that people like you put system together back then. You showed what a person can do with a little ingenuity. It is criminal that a state would would outlaw DIY installation. We need to focus on more installations of power systems of all kinds, and solar is one homeowners can do themselves.
I added solar panels with my new roof a couple of years ago. I'm in Minnesota. Summer air conditioning is fully paid for by the panels; winter is a different story with snow coverage. I have to clear some of the panels on the east side of my hipped roof since the panels do not come to the edge of the roof. Snow piles up below the panels and has to be removed to get the full solar gain. Not a big deal with a roof rake. It has slowed my transition to electric heat though.
Any news on windmill shingles?
I actually like the look of 'normal' solar panels too. It would be awesome to have panels of different shapes, to better cover the corners and peaks of a traditional roof though.
A big part of the efficiency advantage that 'normal' solar panels have is the heat difference (as mentioned in the video). They have an air-gap underneath them that is very good at allowing the heat from the panel itself to dissipate.
The other (rarely considered) advantage that this brings, is it actually shades the roof itself, reducing the heat build up that gets into your house's roof cavity (not an advantage in colder climates, kinda the opposite to be fair)
I agree. Plus, the "idea of unobtrusiveness" seems to be just a matter of habit. I have encased my roof with normal on-roof panels and find it looks awesome and high-tech. So far, no animals made nests in the space between roof and panels, even though we do have some critters around here, and it is installed for two years now. Also, the additional blocking of sunrays helps a quite bit during summer.
I'd like to clarify. While coverage is the main factor of your system power there are a couple engineering requirements that need to be considered when installing panels.
First you have the national requirements for first responder safety. Solar panel systems are required to have at least one three foot gap of roof on the side and three foot of gap on both sides of the peak for firefighter access. I'm not sure how solar roof tiles get around this, the tech is new so the codes might need updating.
The second thing solar systems need to consider for coverage is panel size. A system's performance is generally limited by the lowest performing panel. That's one of the reasons shading is such a huge deal when designing a system; a panel in a system with a shaded panel will be limited until the shaded panel is also in full sun. Similarly, different sizes and shapes of panels can drastically complicate the calculations required to get the most efficiency out of the system. Then you have the manufacturing costs to produce panels in different shapes and the extra install cost of the additional racking and positioning.
It's a decent idea but the cost per W of the system would go up for limited returns.
@@chrury Regarding the shading, that is why some people might use micro-inverters, which reduces the impact shading has on the system as a whole. Though if you don't really need it, you'd avoid it due to extra cost obviously.
Panels are clunky solutions to the problem of buying a "used" house, like seat covers on a "used" car. We wouldn't want those same seat covers on a "new" car. just wouldn't make sense. As new homes are built, they'll be more efficient (not wasting 80-90% of their energy to begin with) and PV roof will do two jobs in one, like picking a new smart phone instead of an old "not smart" phone because... why wouldn't you?
@@DK-vx5co
I don't really see panels as a 'clunky' solution, after all panels are used nearly everywhere (even in new builds) currently. The only reasons you might get a solar roof instead of panels are:
1) esthetics, which most people will not really care that much about, at least none that I know.
2) roof geometry doesn't allow for many panels.
3) this is the most important point: cost. If a solar roof is cheaper than putting up panels, ofcourse people might go for it. But if you don't need a new roof roof, there is no need. And if a regular roof + solar panels is more cost-effective, people are unlikely to go for the solar roof option.
The smartphone example doesn't really make sense. That is similar to saying "well, you'd pick a new roof instead of on old one, because why wouldn't you?" If my old smartphone/roof is still fine, why would I need a new one? You'd not compare an old roof + solar panels with a new solar roof (otherwise the former is most likely less costly), rather a new roof + solar panels.
Also I don't know where you live, but where I live roofs tend to not be replaced before solar panels reach their end of life, 45-70 years is likely a good estimate for when roofs are replaced here, with a solar roof it would be around 30-35 years.
So imo if the costs aren't in favor of a solar roof and my roofs geometry allows panels, I'd go with the 'clunky' panels.
I had my roof for about 17 years. When it came time to replace, insurance covered 60% of the cost. I paid $4,300 for dimensional 125 mph regular shingles. I know a solar roof on my house would easily be $50K. My utilities run about $3.5K per year to be quite comfortable so the amount of utility money per year is not astronomical. When you consider investing some of that difference over time versus taking a loan and paying interest, I just cannot justify it. Even if I had the $50K+ up front for solar versus just investing that money, I doubt you could ever come out ahead unless the investments did very lousy for a very, very long time. I am definitely decided on keeping my $4,300 lifetime roof with 10 year shingle blowoff guarantee. I also have zero maintenance and zero monitoring. I just don’t have to worry about my roof in general which is good piece of mind.
Can you imagine if Tesla teamed up with a new home developer that made the solar roof, battery storage, heat pump HVAC and electric vehicle charger as a standard part of the build. They would have people lining up to buy those homes and become part of a Tesla designed community. Incorporating bike paths and trails, some apartments and condos with solar canopies in the parking lot for EV charging and a business district that you could ride a bicycle to pick up groceries or do light shopping. Some developer should jump on this and team up with a winner.
On the traditional solar panels on my roof, I have individual mini-inverters for each panel. That insures that when 1/2 the panels are in shade, they don't affect the 1/2 that are in the light. My understanding is that when all the panels are on a single inverter, panels in the shade reduce the output of the other panels. I wonder how solar shingles handle this issue?
Thanks!
Appreciate the support!
I have a new house, but I love the idea of installing a solar roof but it HAS TO be paired with a Tesla battery. I’m hoping that when it’s time to change the roof (in about 25 years) the technology will be great and TEsla will have their crap together 😂
Solar without a battery doesnt make sense !
Tesla isn't the only game in town when it comes to home storage.
I find tesla to be hugely overrated. They are very unfriendly towards their customers.
@@ernie4125 Solar without a battery can make sense. If you are using 2kW constantly and get solar panels that can generate 2kW for 10 hours a day you could cut down on the amount of power you buy significantly. If the cost of the panels is less than what you would pay for the electricity then it's good.
@@ernie4125 I found the payback for a battery in Phoenix (APS) is about 30 years, based on their rate system. I couldn't justify it - better to spend that money on more solar panels, which I did. When the utility starts paying more for energy generated at night, that picture will change.
I think I’d prefer a “solar parasol” mounted a foot or so off the roof on a more robust frame, possibly to the groung around the edges, only on the south face.
This would shade the house keeping it cooler. Also it would reduce the need to leave gaps for plumbing vents.
Just a pro-tip from somebody in the roofing industry, GAF is pronounced G - A - F like IBM or BASF.
And here I was thinking IBM is pronounced “ibem” and BASF is pronounced “basef.” 😉
Dislike
I talked to a Solar Panel expert and he said that Solar Roofs will not succeed because you have to clean the Solar Panels often to get the most power out of them. It's nearly impossible to clean the entire Solar Roof because you'll break them if you need to stand on them. He basically made the case that if you can't clean the entire roof properly, you've wasted most of your money.
Solar roofs are just not economical yet compared to standard solar panels bracketed to the existing roof. Even with 30% tax credit its still too costly for average home owners. I am personally not a fan of mounting solar to roofs especially if its avoidable and you have space for a ground mount system. I do really like Tesla solar roofs if it didn't cost so danm much. Would love to see this as the standard on all houses in the future.
"Presidential Endorsements" doesnt exactly carry the same weight as it did just a couple years ago 🤔
Yes, they were tarnished in 2016
@@Rob-147 no I think the tarnishment started a little over a year ago 😆😉🤡
@@MrMikeyBmore bless your heart. I hope you are well and pray that you look into policy impact.
would any of you lads be interested in some self driving solar tiles that bore tunnels into mars for hyperloops? we accept dogecoin and you get a free flamethrower with every order. [expected wait time: 1-99999 centuries, prices may vary from 1-99999% of contracted amount]
Sir, you have my interest!😂
Love that Tesla innovation is bringing more competitors to the table, even if that means Tesla will lose sales. We need more power from more sources and this is just one.
Wonder however if that "Presidential Endorsement" for luma was the same president who exclude Tesla from his EV summit and even told the biggest lie of the year that GM was the world leader in EVs. Boy the UAW sure has a lot of clout and none of it good.
I think for me the 3 issues with any solar roof is 1) the difficulty of producing electricity in regions of the world where the sun isnt as readily available all year around 2) the potential costs associated with replacing a old solar roof with a new one and 3) the question of how good the solar roof is in holding the elements outside the house aka the roof not leaking for example.
The large problem with putting a solar array on any dwelling is that it (1) puts holes in your roof (2) must be removed in order to access the roof for repairs (3) is hard to access because it's mounted to an existing roof.
The solution is to place a solar array atop a stand-alone carport lattice frame. This allows for access to the underside for maintenance and removal of individual panels, utilizes the entire roof frame, provides shade for your vehicles and is overall less expensive to build.
I think the way to go is developing solar tracking and reflectors with traditional PV arrays. You get a better window of peak power with tracking, you get a substantial boost in power from reflectors (which would be great for overcast days/less sunny areas).
The burden would be to develop a smart controller to manage the load on the structure and depending on the roof reinforcement may be necessary. But on the flip side, install could be down to half a day- if the system can be delivered on a pallet, final assembly on site and a light crane to place it on the roof.
It usually is much cheaper and more efficient to just add more panels nowdays with them being so cheap.
Having just built a house, the issue with a solar roof is you have to pay up front if you are building a new house. My contractor and I tried using a draft from our construction loan for this, and they wouldn't budge for some stupid reason. We went with concrete shingles instead, but it still ticks me off. We live in AZ; it is a prime location for solar roofs to become standard for all new builds.
We replaced our roof a few years ago after a hail storm. It was ~$9800, though a solar option was available and would have been north of $30k. I thought about it with the incentive of an $8,900 rebate until I spoke with a few installers. Labor aside, I asked how many solar-installed roofs he was doing repair work on after that same storm. "All of them need something." Average repairs he said were about $10k.
Something to think about, especially if your home insurance may not cover a total loss on a solar system due to the costs vs a traditional roof.
Here in Texas you can expect golf ball sized hail about once every 10 -15 years. My house is 13 years old and we had that size hail only 6 months after it was built. If I had solar panels back then, they would have been decimated.
As a solar manufacturer CTO who has dabbled in BIPV in the past, the rate of change in technology and design is the killer here. It's fine to have it easily repairable but unless warehouses full of stock are held back for replacement, the designs and appearance will change too much over time to slip in a new tile in 10 years. In 12 years a standard roof top module has gone from 200W to 400W. Cell appearance, colour and size are all completely different. They don't look that different to regular panels either. I'd argue that some look worse.
There is a lot of push back from local power companies. Here is Florida solar was encouraged by a sell back to those power companies at retail prices. However, now they have introduced legislature to push that price back to wholesale prices after the fact that people installed solar planning on getting paid retail price for the solar energy they sell back to the power company. It is like a slap in the face and those who were looking at installing solar, can't afford to do so now.
Layman’s question here:
I understand that these types of solar panels become less efficient the hotter they get. I have heard that on several sites but no one has explained precisely what that entails. So isn’t there some way of passively cooling them, such as having a bigger cavity directly below them in order to circulate air flow?
Or is this ‘heat’ more concerned with the temperatures within the layers of the panel itself (precluding airflow as a cooling solution)?
I live in the tropics; I’d be really interested to hear about the efficiency of solar panels + their efficiency when in temperate climes versus tropical climes.
this video is just lazy nerd click bait LOL
You could build for airflow underneath them, but that would add significantly to the cost as well as the profile of the roof.
This is just another reason why solar roofs are a dumb idea. Install your roof, then install panels on it so you can optimally position and airflow comes naturally, instead of having your panel be both a power generator and watertight barrier.
Thank you. We have two older homes on the east coast. One is in a historic district, the other has a complex mansard roof with dormers and multiple slopes. Standard solar panels aren't really an option for either (historic district won't allow them, and the mansard doesn't have enough large flat surfaces to mount panels), so I've been tracking solar shingles for a while. Currently, I'm in the "lets see if we can wait ten years" camp.
Big problem with larger shingles is that at least in NJ you can only have the solar cover a certain amount of the roof and those tiles can only fit on larger roof so unless you have a giant or simple roof you can't get nearly the coverage a smaller tile can squeeze into. We have been running into this issue especially with the larger tesla solar pannels we have been using making us drop pannels due to fire setbacks
The roof on my TX house is now more than 17 years old, and is getting close to replacement time. All of my neighbors have gotten new shingle roofs in the past two years, no doubt capitalizing on hail storms to ‘find’ damage to their roofs and have insurance cover some/all of the replacement cost.
I have considered solar roof shingles instead of panels, as I think it’s a better overall system, and it looks less disruptive than solar panels. Most of my roof faces East and West, not South, so having solar shingles would probably be better overall, and generate power throughout the day. Plus, I would have no solar panels visible from the street (the West facing part of the roof.
Thanks to this video, I have more info to use when investigating whether solar shingles will be worth it. And if not, then I’ll put another standard roof on the house. Here’s hoping for another hail storm soon. ;-)
Our TX home roof needed replacement in 10 years because of hail. The Texas sun dries out the shingles and they get brittle. Now add hailstones up to the size of baseball and it is new roof and car windshield time.
How about looking into NON PV solar home products. A gentleman I used to work for used to heat his home with a passive solar system that used a cinder block wall in a sun facing solarium as a collector that had air flowing through it, and through a large gravel heat-sink under the wall, to provide for some of his winter heating. If I remember correctly, his cold air returns to the furnace went through these spaces. The air warmed going through the block wall during the day would "load" the gravel heat sink, and pre-warm the air going to the furnace. The thermal mass of the wall and heat-sink would keep working overnight. I've personally used a flat, glass-topped box and coiled tubing to make a solar pool heater. Surely there have to be more ideas to use solar at home than tens of thousands of dollars worth of silicon and electronics?
Another benefit to solar roofs is that you have one contract, one price. The contract is for “solar roof”, making the entire project eligible for the 26% tax credit (rate in 2022). So you essentially get your roof and solar both at 26% off, rather than just your solar system.
Also, one contract = one warranty. As a roofing contractor, I see homeowners caught in the middle of finger pointing between roofers and solar installers all the time. If you go with the GAF Timberline shingle, GAF warrants the entire system leak-free for 25 years.
Having worked in roofing, I guarantee you standard "roofers" would have nails through half those solar shingles. And GAF is the only brand I've seen that was consistently ruined after 7-10 years. If I say a 7 year roof that was bald all over (and need replacing)... It was always GAF.
Even if any of the contractors in my rural area had the experience to install one of these roofs, none of the manufacturers offer the product in my region. Here, a standard architectural asphalt shingle roof goes for $15,000 to $30,000, so a solar roof I can imagine would start at around $60,000--same as ceramic tile.
Half way through the video, i just love how this guy talks and quote companies on the: whole world, first in the world.... Best regards form eastern Europe.