You've been sorely missed you taintscratcher!!! The rest of the crew has been carrying the torch and I know you've been active on other platforms and productions, but it's awesome to see the DCP crew reunion 😭
His background as a longtime IGN employee puts him in that critical mindset all the time. He's been this way even since his old podcast, Fireteam Chat.
To Fran's point/complaint about the raid being released earlier than usual (correct me if I am wrong), it is because the raid has story implications which is why the FINAL mission of The Final Shape is released once the raid is beaten by the first fireteam. We are not getting the entire TFS campaign on launch, only the first 7 missions. If I am not mistaken, Bungie has explained this numerous times.
So if I beat the campaign and then have to wait for the raid and it to be beaten and a new quest after some 4 days later, what is the difference? We also go entire months of story being dragged on week over week, just like episodes of streaming TV etc. On top of this, nobody is forcing Bungie to put a story behind a 6-person, non-match made activity that is also set to immense difficulty to reduce the amount of people (probably 90%+) that can beat it in the first 48 hours anyway. That’s where this is coming from - to “experience the story” they are asking for, idk, 30-40 hours of your time in a week? Just think what that means for most people. I don’t see how it takes away anything other than “launch hype” and “max concurrence” by giving players more time. For what it’s worth, I think it’s actually pretty cool for those that can actually experience it all 100% as their own - and not by watching a raid race, or waiting for the community to unlock something. But that’s an immense time ask.
@@Arctis326 Therefore…? This is the same as Last Wish and others. There’s no revelation of a “point” here. How would that change anything doing it a week later, or, indeed, launching Normal mode when the race is over instead of farming for social concurrents and doing something that requires 40 hours of playtime in a single week?
@@FranMirabella I think most people would rather not have to wait to complete the campaign that they spent $50 on in the first place. People hated Lightfall, and that was a complete story on-release, and the casual player certainly won't know that they have to wait for a World's First Raid completion, if that even made sense to them. To go on the other end of the spectrum, remember in Lightfall when The Veil wasn't fleshed out, and then they released more lore behind it in the following Season? That was heavily criticized, even by people like Myelin and Byf. They also didn't want to release a complete campaign about defeating The Witness before the Raid, which would kind of be counteractive to actually beating them and also make the final Raid boss feel weird if it wasn't The Witness, and also just be a rehash of what they did in The Taken King. This is the best they probably could have done in their shoes. It's a unique situation as a game with heavy emphasis on narrative while also having Raids, whilst wrapping up a saga.
@@heyblaise Yea, I totally get that, but it's still completely just a matter of preference. Like, if you translate this it's like saying, "I beat the campaign on Tuesday. It was a cliffhanger, so I did the exotic quest on Wednesday. I was okay waiting until Friday to pick up more of the story. Then I spent 10 hours Friday to get a story conclusion. I'm okay waiting 5 days for a story conclusion, but not 7 days...or 10." Again, my bigger issue is the raid tends to be "locked" to extreme difficulty for 48 hours as well for no real reason once the Top 10 world first teams are in. Why not offer Normal? Likewise, don't throw a cutscene in my face when I log in, and if a new part of the map or activity opens up that's fine but let me choose to move on or not without spoilers, and finish the raid for myself. I totally get it for hardcore players. But that's just it: think about how much time this requires. It is not even close to an average, or realistic and accessible experience. That's really what I'm discussing here. I can set aside 30-40 hours in a week to try and experience a new Destiny 2 story. But it's not designed at all for 90% of the potential players. And on top of that you'll see with raid completions, the majority of the playerbase doesn't experience the story properly by playing the game -- they just watch it online or skip the raid. (e.g. if 500,000 try the raid but 2-million-plus players play the game, what does that say).
It’s worth noting: - You can make a montage of me saying I “remain excited about Final Shape and all expansions - and how much I enjoy Destiny” through every high and low of the past year. I can say I’m excited but critique things in the same breath. - I love talking gaming. But I’m a critic/reviewer, not a just a fan. I’m here to generate discussion and share my takes. I’m not a cheerleader just wanting people to agree. That’s fine, that’s just not me. It’s okay for us all to have different expectations and ways that we play. Isn’t that what’s interesting about podcasts and opinion shows?
So the Final Shape is something I'm looking forward to but dreading as well. I recently lost my brother towards the end of last year and Destiny Two is a game we both played together most nights. I love the game for that reason as its the place I shared so many great memories with my brother, so many achievements and laugher shared together in this game. I will play this DLC remembering him and all the light he brought to the world when he was here. I know I can't be the only one missing a fire team member this DLC, after ten years, I am sure we have lost many guardians who will never play this DLC. I want to complete this 10 year journey for my brother 🙏
I think they should use hawtheon and a entry point for us to get to meet and know regular folks in the city as well as mortal people who fight. Introduce more of her clan. Give us some missions that play out like onslaught. We get regular soilders fighting with us to complete objectives or rescue citizens. Then we get cut scenes. Or we after words we get to have conversations with those people. Mass effect style with multiple options. I think destiny needs a little. More mass effect. When it comes to social spaces, and interactions with characters and major mpc's. Both in story telling . And combat. Imagine going through a strike , with civilians soilders ahead of you making call outs , sniping things from a distance. Then joing up on with you at the end to provide cover fire. I think puting stars wars style cantinas into the game . Like after life on mass effect. Would go a great deal to fleshing out the last city as well. Imagine being able to go hear roomers from various smugglers. And criminals, and just normal folks out in the Field. Then exploring those leads. Or just having them give you a glimpse of future things to come. Bungie half ass did this with the spider nothing ass bar. Like they kinda half ass a lot of things. They should have made his bar a multi level spectacle. Introduced more new characters in that space and every season used it as a way to tell side story's . I feel like the last city should be like the hub in anthem. It should have levels the civil level. The prominode level, and the guardian top level. Imagine that social space huge. With room to grow ass alien embeceys. New venders like a new ships machinic, or a full blow auto body shop where you can mod and customize your ships and sparrows and skimmers.
I understand having the raid 3 days after the launch. From a story perspective, we’re not going to get to the start of the raid and be like “let’s set a campfire here and wait a week and hope the witness is just REALLY slow at this final shape stuff”
They've already said it's because the campaign will only have 7 out of 8 missions available at launch, and the Raid will unlock the last mission. Likely us fighting The Witness in the Raid will just weaken them for the final confrontation in the campaign, so it's satisfying for everyone.
Based on the launch trailer and on the vidocs, I counted at least 7 full different CGI cinematics, which is something we did not have since FORSAKEN. Plus the in-game cinematics (i counted 3 or 4 based on the various trailers), which is a a lot! And i suspect there's something more we did not see, plus all the echoes cutscenes (which were promised to be more and of better quality). So yeah, that's a lot. The witch queen and lighfall dlcs had maximum 4-5 CGI cutscenes, so the final shape almost doubled them😅
@fran bungie has stated that the echoes episode takes place post raid so they wanna give people a chance to play before the raid but also have to get the raid done sooner that later so people can experience the episode content they paid for (though reasonably the campaign story would likely take the focus for most player)
1:30:40 My personal Monster Hunter hot take 🔥🔥🔥 I don't get the hype. I mean, sure...the graphics are a step above what they were...but that doesn't help a game that is sorely lacking in a fun gameplay loop. I tried, but never enjoyed MH, and it's mostly because I didn't FEEL the action. It felt like button mashing with no technically produced feedback that I felt that could allow the actions to feel significant. You know, like the way Helldiver's is, or how Destiny and God of War make you FEEL the impact of your weapon choice. MH feels very mid, and lacks any kind of connection to what your seeing displayed in a parade of pixels. Graphics that, at times, seem a bit much. So much happening at once on the screen. Feels discombobulated and overly chaotic...which doesn't make it feel authentic or satisfying...to me. I just DO NOT see the attraction and passion of its fan base, which admittedly is significant. Does anyone else feel that way?
46:30 yeah if they're making a Destiny 3 they really should make a more intuitive vault cleaning process. I would very much like less inventory management time and more play time. Please UI and UX designers....
People still won't clean them cause they're lazy. Let me watch someone who complains about vault space play and I'll point out all the times during their gameplay where they could be deleting all the garbage they hold on to, without interrupting any actual play time.
The thing I'd to see them address in Destiny 2 is that it looks like a Saturday morning cartoon and there is nothing tactical about it. Destiny 1 was a slower paced, much more tactical shooter that was very colorful but also had grit. Destiny 2 lacks grit. Their art direction needs to get grounded a bit more. LESS WARFRAME, MORE STAR WARS! Get it? Even the character models in Destiny 1 looked more menacing. They all look like toys in Destiny 2. The Cabal literally look like action figures. lol
It's not brainless, they're all fine minds who have a lot of good knowledge about the video gaming space. In the end, they've all grown tired of the Destiny thing. It's been obvious the last two years more than ever. They just enjoy other things more and don't have much to say about Destiny anymore. Usually, this is the time they'd change hosts, and move the podcast in a different direction (like when Pope left and then Holtzman). It was a natural progression. I don't know why they don't just give the show to Myelin, TrueVanguard and Legoleflash. They could bring in Fallout, Coolguy, and the Firing Squad regulars as well, from time to time...and that would be a proper Destiny podcast. Made up of people who are familiar with Destiny, because they actually play it a lot!
You've been sorely missed you taintscratcher!!! The rest of the crew has been carrying the torch and I know you've been active on other platforms and productions, but it's awesome to see the DCP crew reunion 😭
Fran seems like a really nice guy but I’d be lying if I said he didn’t consistently have the worst takes on the pod. At least he’s consistent lol.
His background as a longtime IGN employee puts him in that critical mindset all the time. He's been this way even since his old podcast, Fireteam Chat.
That’s like…his opinion man.
To Fran's point/complaint about the raid being released earlier than usual (correct me if I am wrong), it is because the raid has story implications which is why the FINAL mission of The Final Shape is released once the raid is beaten by the first fireteam. We are not getting the entire TFS campaign on launch, only the first 7 missions.
If I am not mistaken, Bungie has explained this numerous times.
So if I beat the campaign and then have to wait for the raid and it to be beaten and a new quest after some 4 days later, what is the difference?
We also go entire months of story being dragged on week over week, just like episodes of streaming TV etc.
On top of this, nobody is forcing Bungie to put a story behind a 6-person, non-match made activity that is also set to immense difficulty to reduce the amount of people (probably 90%+) that can beat it in the first 48 hours anyway. That’s where this is coming from - to “experience the story” they are asking for, idk, 30-40 hours of your time in a week? Just think what that means for most people. I don’t see how it takes away anything other than “launch hype” and “max concurrence” by giving players more time.
For what it’s worth, I think it’s actually pretty cool for those that can actually experience it all 100% as their own - and not by watching a raid race, or waiting for the community to unlock something. But that’s an immense time ask.
@@FranMirabellakid, story reveals after beating the raid is not new. You’re just salty you can’t beat the raid day 1
@@Arctis326 Therefore…? This is the same as Last Wish and others. There’s no revelation of a “point” here. How would that change anything doing it a week later, or, indeed, launching Normal mode when the race is over instead of farming for social concurrents and doing something that requires 40 hours of playtime in a single week?
@@FranMirabella I think most people would rather not have to wait to complete the campaign that they spent $50 on in the first place. People hated Lightfall, and that was a complete story on-release, and the casual player certainly won't know that they have to wait for a World's First Raid completion, if that even made sense to them. To go on the other end of the spectrum, remember in Lightfall when The Veil wasn't fleshed out, and then they released more lore behind it in the following Season? That was heavily criticized, even by people like Myelin and Byf.
They also didn't want to release a complete campaign about defeating The Witness before the Raid, which would kind of be counteractive to actually beating them and also make the final Raid boss feel weird if it wasn't The Witness, and also just be a rehash of what they did in The Taken King.
This is the best they probably could have done in their shoes. It's a unique situation as a game with heavy emphasis on narrative while also having Raids, whilst wrapping up a saga.
@@heyblaise Yea, I totally get that, but it's still completely just a matter of preference. Like, if you translate this it's like saying, "I beat the campaign on Tuesday. It was a cliffhanger, so I did the exotic quest on Wednesday. I was okay waiting until Friday to pick up more of the story. Then I spent 10 hours Friday to get a story conclusion.
I'm okay waiting 5 days for a story conclusion, but not 7 days...or 10."
Again, my bigger issue is the raid tends to be "locked" to extreme difficulty for 48 hours as well for no real reason once the Top 10 world first teams are in. Why not offer Normal?
Likewise, don't throw a cutscene in my face when I log in, and if a new part of the map or activity opens up that's fine but let me choose to move on or not without spoilers, and finish the raid for myself.
I totally get it for hardcore players. But that's just it: think about how much time this requires. It is not even close to an average, or realistic and accessible experience. That's really what I'm discussing here. I can set aside 30-40 hours in a week to try and experience a new Destiny 2 story. But it's not designed at all for 90% of the potential players. And on top of that you'll see with raid completions, the majority of the playerbase doesn't experience the story properly by playing the game -- they just watch it online or skip the raid. (e.g. if 500,000 try the raid but 2-million-plus players play the game, what does that say).
GOD! we missed you Myelin
It’s worth noting:
- You can make a montage of me saying I “remain excited about Final Shape and all expansions - and how much I enjoy Destiny” through every high and low of the past year. I can say I’m excited but critique things in the same breath.
- I love talking gaming. But I’m a critic/reviewer, not a just a fan. I’m here to generate discussion and share my takes. I’m not a cheerleader just wanting people to agree. That’s fine, that’s just not me. It’s okay for us all to have different expectations and ways that we play. Isn’t that what’s interesting about podcasts and opinion shows?
Keith is also the voice of Oskar in Hazbin Hotel. That man can also sing!
Ngl sometimes I feel like Fran just likes to stir the pot, dude can't just be happy about anything 😂
So the Final Shape is something I'm looking forward to but dreading as well.
I recently lost my brother towards the end of last year and Destiny Two is a game we both played together most nights.
I love the game for that reason as its the place I shared so many great memories with my brother, so many achievements and laugher shared together in this game.
I will play this DLC remembering him and all the light he brought to the world when he was here.
I know I can't be the only one missing a fire team member this DLC, after ten years, I am sure we have lost many guardians who will never play this DLC.
I want to complete this 10 year journey for my brother 🙏
Welcome back our Australian guardian
The best term I could think of is Calcified because everything turns to amber or stone
The first shape is now.
So excited to watch this!
I think they should use hawtheon and a entry point for us to get to meet and know regular folks in the city as well as mortal people who fight. Introduce more of her clan. Give us some missions that play out like onslaught. We get regular soilders fighting with us to complete objectives or rescue citizens. Then we get cut scenes. Or we after words we get to have conversations with those people. Mass effect style with multiple options. I think destiny needs a little. More mass effect. When it comes to social spaces, and interactions with characters and major mpc's. Both in story telling . And combat. Imagine going through a strike , with civilians soilders ahead of you making call outs , sniping things from a distance. Then joing up on with you at the end to provide cover fire. I think puting stars wars style cantinas into the game . Like after life on mass effect. Would go a great deal to fleshing out the last city as well. Imagine being able to go hear roomers from various smugglers. And criminals, and just normal folks out in the Field. Then exploring those leads. Or just having them give you a glimpse of future things to come. Bungie half ass did this with the spider nothing ass bar. Like they kinda half ass a lot of things. They should have made his bar a multi level spectacle. Introduced more new characters in that space and every season used it as a way to tell side story's . I feel like the last city should be like the hub in anthem. It should have levels the civil level. The prominode level, and the guardian top level. Imagine that social space huge. With room to grow ass alien embeceys. New venders like a new ships machinic, or a full blow auto body shop where you can mod and customize your ships and sparrows and skimmers.
The final hype train
Zavala encounter 2 raid boss?!?!?!?
I understand having the raid 3 days after the launch. From a story perspective, we’re not going to get to the start of the raid and be like “let’s set a campfire here and wait a week and hope the witness is just REALLY slow at this final shape stuff”
They've already said it's because the campaign will only have 7 out of 8 missions available at launch, and the Raid will unlock the last mission. Likely us fighting The Witness in the Raid will just weaken them for the final confrontation in the campaign, so it's satisfying for everyone.
I think we should of used that last wish, to bring Tefty teft back 😓
Will he be back to discuss the launch of Final Shape??! Please?
I came here to ask that. They said they’d make an announcement if he was permanently off the show.
I was hoping he’d return for TFS.
Without Myelin it was difficult to watch this show ngl
Fran it’s pretty obvious that all those scenes are from in the game
I miss tefty
#FreeTefty
Based on the launch trailer and on the vidocs, I counted at least 7 full different CGI cinematics, which is something we did not have since FORSAKEN. Plus the in-game cinematics (i counted 3 or 4 based on the various trailers), which is a a lot! And i suspect there's something more we did not see, plus all the echoes cutscenes (which were promised to be more and of better quality). So yeah, that's a lot. The witch queen and lighfall dlcs had maximum 4-5 CGI cutscenes, so the final shape almost doubled them😅
Been loving tuning into these episodes, folks!
@fran bungie has stated that the echoes episode takes place post raid so they wanna give people a chance to play before the raid but also have to get the raid done sooner that later so people can experience the episode content they paid for (though reasonably the campaign story would likely take the focus for most player)
I’m still waiting to find out that Cayde is a salvation copy of Cayde and we have to kill him at the end of the campaign…. 😅
5733 Ezequiel Cliff
So good to have Myelin back.
1:02:01 story spoilers.
Frans suchs a bummer 😂
1:30:40 My personal Monster Hunter hot take 🔥🔥🔥
I don't get the hype. I mean, sure...the graphics are a step above what they were...but that doesn't help a game that is sorely lacking in a fun gameplay loop. I tried, but never enjoyed MH, and it's mostly because I didn't FEEL the action. It felt like button mashing with no technically produced feedback that I felt that could allow the actions to feel significant. You know, like the way Helldiver's is, or how Destiny and God of War make you FEEL the impact of your weapon choice.
MH feels very mid, and lacks any kind of connection to what your seeing displayed in a parade of pixels. Graphics that, at times, seem a bit much. So much happening at once on the screen. Feels discombobulated and overly chaotic...which doesn't make it feel authentic or satisfying...to me.
I just DO NOT see the attraction and passion of its fan base, which admittedly is significant.
Does anyone else feel that way?
Its 100% Amanda Holiday under the sheet that Cayde approaches. Given their relationship thats .. kind of obvious lol.
What happened to spoffity
They lowered the income for artists but are increasing prices in some territories
46:30 yeah if they're making a Destiny 3 they really should make a more intuitive vault cleaning process. I would very much like less inventory management time and more play time. Please UI and UX designers....
People still won't clean them cause they're lazy. Let me watch someone who complains about vault space play and I'll point out all the times during their gameplay where they could be deleting all the garbage they hold on to, without interrupting any actual play time.
Omg it's an Australian
Evangelion ending
I think the body Cayde was looking at thatxwas covered is Andal Brask.
If its soomething hes seeing as a memory it makes the most sense
I compared the character model's left hands for Cayde and Amanda and it's definitely Cayde under the sheet.
Been a few years and I see the spouse of a Bungie employee is still on the show, no thanks. 👎👎
The thing I'd to see them address in Destiny 2 is that it looks like a Saturday morning cartoon and there is nothing tactical about it. Destiny 1 was a slower paced, much more tactical shooter that was very colorful but also had grit. Destiny 2 lacks grit. Their art direction needs to get grounded a bit more. LESS WARFRAME, MORE STAR WARS! Get it?
Even the character models in Destiny 1 looked more menacing. They all look like toys in Destiny 2. The Cabal literally look like action figures. lol
I loved the beautiful combination of fantasy and sci fi that D1 had. D2 feels like they just went full on fantasy.
brainless ramblings
Thanks for watching!
It's not brainless, they're all fine minds who have a lot of good knowledge about the video gaming space. In the end, they've all grown tired of the Destiny thing. It's been obvious the last two years more than ever. They just enjoy other things more and don't have much to say about Destiny anymore.
Usually, this is the time they'd change hosts, and move the podcast in a different direction (like when Pope left and then Holtzman). It was a natural progression. I don't know why they don't just give the show to Myelin, TrueVanguard and Legoleflash. They could bring in Fallout, Coolguy, and the Firing Squad regulars as well, from time to time...and that would be a proper Destiny podcast. Made up of people who are familiar with Destiny, because they actually play it a lot!