fr man this game sounds too good to be true.. xD also i really like open world bosses getting harder uses diffrent abilitys and stuff depending on players doing the activity.. cant wait for A2
Glad you talked about instancing in pve, I keep hearing this misconception of 20% of raids and dungeons being instanced... I would even go further and say that this instanced content will most likely be boss encounters related to story arcs, but we'll see.
Great video! Loved the careful parsing of how different game systems work together to create the desired experience--protecting item scarcity through non-instanced content while protecting against too much pvp conflict through death penalties. Can't wait to test it!
this is a perfect summary for why my most memorable moment in MMO history was, when a small group of my friends and i went through New World's Elite zone tower, with Malevolence on top as a boss. And while grinding to the top, with a group of 5, we noticed a 20man group slowly climbing up too. so right before the final boss room we hid inside one of the water fountains there, laying and waiting silently. And luckly no one of the 20 guys noticed, they bagan the fight, nearly finished the boss, and then we struck, jumping out of the pools chipping away their healers, and finishing off the stragglers and then finishing the boss ourselves. That was a big moment on our server and made my guild infamous, to never underestimate us. It was just legendary.
Dark Age of Camelot had open dungeons. As you worked your way into the dungeon, mobs would respawn behind you. Anyone coming in behind you would have to fight the repawned mobs. You could hear them fighting and react accordingly.
That is a perfect solution if they can make enemies respawning make sense. As in say it's a spider dungeon, just have more spiders hatch. Or an undead dungeon, just have the main boss reanimate the dead. Human dumgeos would be more tricky, unless there are just reinforcements that come from outside or from previously closed doors. Another mechanic could be multiple paths through the dungeon and blocking paths, forcing the trailing party to take detours, fall into traps or even get lost.
Great catch on the phrasing around instancing. I always assumed entire instanced or open world dungeons. Instead, room locks as he said in the AMA might be much more prevalent than I thought. Great video as always!
Great video! I cant wait to see the mechanics they have in store for us. and the strife, chaos, and friend you can make as you progress threw these type of dungeons. Thanks for making these, they are the best!
I remember one thing that was so awesome was in aion there was the battle for the castles in the pvp zone and certain high level players could transform onto a diety to help take those over easier. They were rock stars and I wanted to be one of those. I only knew of two on the asmodian side I played on. When they joined the battle people cheered and gathered to push.
As always I brought my beer and popcorn as soon as I could, to enjoy your latest video. And as always. You deliver! Great video, and I’ve noticed his use of words regarding dungeon vs instanced! Well illustrated! 👏😁
Regardless of how they end up doing dungeons, we'll adapt, rock on and have a good time. I just hope it's done in a way that keeps the hardcore pve crowd playing. We pvx fans still want as huge of a population as we can get. #InStevenWetrust
Love your videos Dr. thank you! I have fond memories of pvp in wow around Blackrock Depths and Upper and Lower BR Spire (group vs group battles on the way to dungeon entrances). I'm thinking we saw the forest dungeon, or portions of it during Alpha 1 testing (it was barebones/ not a full dungeon).
@sticqeno228 Great breakdown! I was working yesterday and missed it, and tonight have seen a few streamers breakdown. Gonna have to give it to ya. Yours flowed and was the most insightful. Stay on the grind! And ps... the berserker series back there, yea... it's fire.
Some of my best memories are from open world dungeons and raids. Cant wait to experience Intepids take on them. I do feel the modern mmo enjoyer will find this style off putting. Well some of them at least.
Asheron's Call Darktide pvp server had similar format, all the dungeons were open and clearing them could take2-4x longer due to people trying to come in and take over your progress and steal the boss kill. It made the replay factor for the game more entertaining as you always had to be paying attention to your rear, but it also could be frustrating if things did not go your way.
it would be cool to have low and high players cooperate inside a large dungeon. Max level players engaging the last boss could summon lower level bosses on the first floor of the dungeon.
I love how this is so fun and unique. There's actually a game that's implementing this greatly : Albion online, they have static open world dungeons, bosses and content, and although there are some instanced content, it's not nearly as lucrative as the open world one, always weighting the greater rewards to the greater risks. And although lots of people complain about the game (mainly the pve only people that get annoyed when they get pvped in PVP zones) the game is still retaining and growing its playerbase over the years. One thing that worries me about AoC though, (I've watched lots of your videos, and idk if you or someone tackled this aspect) is power imbalance between the 0.1% guilds and the rest, hoarding this kinda content and gatekeeping the dungeons to themselves and driving out the other players, moreso when the rewards are finite and exclusive, and the first organized guild / players that have access to these will gain lots of power making it harder for the other players to fight them / access those resources. What do you think about this ? Has it been addressed by Steven ? Might be a good idea for a video or feedback to Intrepid (although I know it's a huge paradoxal issue as if less gueared or weaker players can contest and fight those players that have access to these higher more exclusive rewards, they will lose their value and be meaningless) I'm interested to see how Intrepid will tackle this issue
Great question. I plan to talk about this in a future video at some point. It's a serious concern a lot of us have had. Short answer is that the top .1% will have the best stuff and it won't be particularly close. However, they have to play nice because node sieges aren't capped so if they piss off the entire server, the node siege will be 500 vs 9500. Also there are a lot of mechanics which make maintaining power a constant struggle with items degrading and the potential of nodes atrophying. Hope that helps!
Ah I see, so the power of politics, alliances recruiting guilds in their node / for wars in exchange for access to these dungeons or protection a set number of times per month. I can see that happening and medium clans populating nodes that offer sharing these rarer resources and bosses occasionally. Or the birth of a federation of smaller guilds to contest the larger guilds on their off hours even if they get a smaller piece of the pie as it's better than zero piece
@@TheCopiumClinic the open world events that happen to a node or around a node due to player activity. Steven said you will be able to "re-live the moment" in instances. I expect it will be like what LotRO did with their past dungeons. You go to a Mirror Pool and enter the instance there.
Waiting on the Tulnar. I need my beast races. Also, I hope they add 1st only pvp. This will add another layer to combat tactics ie flanking etc. It's hard to flank people when they have 270 degree sky view. 😂
2:25 I remember playing EQ2 back in the day. Usually if you were raiding you were in FABLED category of gear, but there was 1 tier above that called MYTHIC that very few items ever were.. like the end raid boss of the majority of expansions never dropped a mythic item, it was usually reserved for something truely special.. though everyone raiding usually was fabled out. Though common gear (the lowest tier) and even treaured (which was originally designed as what you should have as a solo player on the high end) was hardly ever any good or used at all later in the game.. at base you'd get legendary gear, even as a solo player later on (which was designed as endgame group gear). The game became "Ok, I'll just buy Master crafted artisen gear until fabled just replaces everyrhing.", so you'd just skip like 3 entire gear categories... They always kept MYTHICS as something special though to be fair.
Imagine a server where nobody can do a raid or dungeon, and then some random guy with a talent for video games comes by and completes the dungeon. He would become a legend
Yeah this seems awesome. Taking old school mmo dungeon design & bringing into 2024. I have not been that hype for the game but it's starting to look awesome.
haha, Well I think making them less static & adding new ideas does make them something new. Just good they are not making super linear instanced dungeons that we have been getting since WOW
For me, I don't think cry babies have ever been a problem. The problem has been making a game where the PvP players can co-exist with the PvEers. And to do that you just have to incentivise PvPers to play defence. And we know an heroic defence, is more entertaining than an overwhelming offensive "Victory" against civilians. We remember real life defensive battles more - Remember the Alamo! My view is that you need to write a game that incentivises the behaviour you want. If you create a game that makes cry-babies cry, you wrote a bad game. If you build a zoo where the tigers keep killing the antelope, you built a bad zoo. Don't blame the antelope, because they don't like being food!
From the server design that Intrepid showed yesterday, their Ashes of Creation servers are going to have much more players per world than WoW, or almost any other MMO. That will make such ladder climbing insane.
They mentioned bringing large groups to world bosses reduces risk & reward. The problem here is that every server is likely to have 1 big streamer with enough people giving up the loot. I worry that every world boss is just going to have this "donation group", giving the loot to the streamer.
@@Daesig I agree that’ll happen. Gotta play politics to rally to troops against the streamers though. I’d be surprised if every server had 1 big streamer. I think we’re looking at hundreds of servers.
Thanks John! The stream was great! Not a lot of systems talk, but good stuff I can sprinkle in videos from here on out. Also, it was a huge shot of copium for me. What'd you think?
@TheCopiumClinic oh yeah, I'm calling it right now. Intrepid, business of the decade. I hope I'm part of the first 500! Listening to the studio part, it seems they are hitting on all cylinders and just killing it. I also think our fears of a2 being years have eased a bit, or at least for me anyway. Hope you have a great 4th and Thanks for the vid! What a great way to start a holiday!
Despite it's major flaws over the years, Aion did this right. There were plenty of PvE instances, but there were also open world bosses and instances in which opposing factions could go at it at the same time. Also, some of the best instances, which offered pvp items, had entrances in contested pvp zones which could be camped. It was both good and bad.
I can’t help but to think Steven watched those isekai mmo anime like log horizon or shangri la frontier with how open world dungeons and raids might work it got my anime brain working overtime
Hey, great video as always. What are your thoughts on the correct balance for feeling rewarded for your time & effort vs RNG loot tables along the risk-reward spectrum? In the video, you gave an example of a non-instanced boss dropping a shard that could be used as crafting materials in elite gear. Do you know if this is the direction AoC is going? I hope this is the case since that would be something everyone could roll on. I don't think everyone should be given a participation trophy, but RNG loot tables for a specific BiS set armor piece can get tedious on the other extreme. I'm aware AoC plans to place emphasis on crafting, but you know way more about the game than me.
Bro I've wanted to do a video on loot and the gearing systems for a long time, but we don't have enough info yet. It'd be too much speculation, even for me haha
@@TheCopiumClinic Haha fair enough man. Regardless of what Intrepid is actually planning, what are your own thoughts if you could design the rewards? I could see potential in a loot system where ultra rare items (e.g. a Legendary Shard piece) go to only a few people in the entire raid while everyone receives some baseline reward such as a token or lesser materials (e.g. some Uncommon Shards) etc. Perhaps these tokens or w/e could be traded in for good rewards after building them up over time but maybe not for the BiS stuff.
That's some pretty great detective work picking up on the nuance verbiage that Steven gauntlets his mind through to make sure he doesn't say anything too revealing or inaccurate. Lol.
That was my view with the instanced content as well. I hope we are right. I've seen others convinced it's just non-important quest line stuff. I would be disappointed if so. I think instanced content is important, not to separate PvP, but because I think it's the only way to house the most difficult and coordinated group PvE encounters. Set areans and set number of people are necessary to build difficult PvE that needs to be progged. I don't think you will see "progs" in a pure open world setting.
Yeah I would be let down if it's just questline stuff too. Not sure where people got that though. I didn't find anything which would suggest that's the way it is.
@@TheCopiumClinic He made a comment like that one time in a monthly update. It was like 6-12 months ago. Sorry I can recall exactly but I remember the comment. Everything else he's said before and after doesn't seem that way to me though.
Have they actually shown this design working? I have heard them talk about it many times, but like the all-seeing eye, it’s only been talked about and not shown. For example, the Carphin story-arc was procced by a dev. They didn’t put it at 99.9% ready and then actually initiate it by design, it was a dev button.
vet of Wow and Everquest and loving what im hearing about this MMO. You can tell they have played MMOs and know how to make a next gen one. my only complaints so far: 1. graphically would of liked more for a next gen MMO, especially one running on Unreal Engine 5 that can does virutal geometry for poloygon counts and can handle more technically than any other engine. But i guess that may be a result of them starting on the game with Unreal Engine 4. 2. I think next gen MMOs should get away from levels. eventually overtime you segment the playerbase where all the players are off to new lands and the orignal lands or empty. its not bad to introduce new lands, but how about keeping relevant content in the lands you already created. but that gets hard when you have to starter levels, and level 50 area and etc. If mobs everywhere iare equally a threat than you introduce excitement to the old content regardless. 3. the combat is still to late gen. i think Dark Souls/ Elden Ring showed a combat system that scales very well with MMO technical limitations. the combat is a huge factor for MMOs and sadly its not next gen.
Steven is a Lineage 2 fan so ) in lineage are(was) no instances and free pvp everywhere, and its most exiting game ever ) wow endies never will understand that )
You missed “Dark Age Of Camelot” PVP dungeons that were gated by PVP map control. People complained but they played the game. The problem they had plages current games. The PVP goals become zerg fest. Games need to balance wvw with quick instanced spvp both impacting pvp dungeons that would drop pvp and pve items.
fun dies when there is no risk. If people dont care about whether they die or not because they can do the dungeons and stuff anyways then whats the point. I want to be scared of dying on the second floor of a tower dungeon and i want to rely on the healer otherwise we wont make it out alive
So is AoC going to be a PvP focused game, where I can get ganked and plundered whilst I'm fighting a dungeon boss? Not followed the game for a while but always assumed it'd be a more standard PvE style affair.
I don't think it's exactly scarcity that is required for prestige. It's about rewards truly reflecting the players' achievements. In WoW, a noob and an absolute gigachad will both have a near-identical gearset, with a different color. The rare mythic raiding mount doesn't even stand out among a sea of store mounts, free promotional event mounts, etc. Everyone gets everything all the time. So I know what you mean about scarcity... but it's not so much that players need to feel a lack of rewards. There can be an abundance rewards of all kinds... ~available to those who earn them~. It's about the integrity of the reward structure -- one that actually reflects the player's achievements and no more or less.
@@paulshelkov7956 I guess the unsaid part of the argument is that legendary gear is actually legendary in its stats and attributes. I agree that the reward should equal the achievement.
You could get the same effect even if everything is instance. The issue in WoW, though, is now there are 4 levels of difficulty. Everyone and their grandma can queue up and down the last boss... and get a piece of gear that's almost indistinguishable from the most elite player who wiped 250 times on that boss with their guild. I'm preaching to the choir here. Non-instanced content has unique benefits too, though. I want to see as much of it as possible as long as its not a lag fest. Though if it is a lag-fest maybe there's a way of spreading players out.
@@TheCopiumClinic Yeah, it's a discrepancy between the player's input and the feedback, or reflection they get. When the player does something legendary, they get to see their own legendary-ness mirrored back to them, and others, in the form of gear, titles, etc. As soon as you give a "legendary" reward for something less, you've given up the integrity of the system. There's less connection between you as a player, and what you're seeing... without that it's just "pixels on a screen".
A raid boss that scales up to zergs, expands capabilities, and has better targeting, such as targeting healers over tanks. Awesome. A raid that rewards smaller raid teams specializing in teamwork. Now how do we handle the tryhards who make raiding an unpaid intern job?
@@TeeziEasy I think having something for everyone is smart. Also there are certain encounters they don’t want people to be able to Zerg. Thanks for the comment!
Somthing i tought about seeing footage of the game... I realy realy realy desperatly want mmorpg running fysics to be more realistic, why is it always so static, i mean... We have the technology. Why can they do it in single player games AC for example but not in online games?
What the Hella re you even saying? You should probably forget about playing games for a while.. And, go figure out how to fix that sentence structure to be able to communicate a little better. Shit, that was painful to "read"
People make this stuff sound so cool but also don't realize how inconvenient and annoying a lot of these features will be, imagine not being able to ever play certain parts of the game because you have a job or something ig it'll hit a niche group but idk of it'll actually work out in real life like they make it sound
people got to comfortable with MMO's, they are afraid of failing because failing is "unacceptable" feels like in Ashes, you would most likely keep failing, until that one time you won't ^^
@@TheCopiumClinic speculation. The last I heard of Utility skills was 3-5 years ago when they showcased the large, group Summon. It could still be in their design, but what they showed was hasty and terribly balanced. Clerics would have a poison cleanse. Sounds cool, except Clerics would already be on heal/buff duty. It isnt a true Utility like finding hidden paths or opening magic doors. But no. No evidence.
If I had to sum up my feelings in a word, it'd be "skeptical". Feel like I've seen this song and dance a dozen times. The devs can never outsmart a million autists who play the game 16hr/day. When I hear open world boss / finite drops, all I hear is massive zerging to guarantee said finite drops.
I appreciate the comment dude! There's good reason to be skeptical. I think Intrepid is the difference here. Buncha gamers making a game and very connected to the community. Time will tell!
PVE players outnumber PvP players by a lot. While I understand the appeal of PvP, most of the time I just wanna relax and have fun not worrying about being killed. I like a choice to participate and so many games are missing out on millions of players by not having PVE only servers. I know this game won't, and I'll likely give it a try. I won't stick around though once I get killed when I'm already in a bad mood. These types of games can't hold my interest once I lose enough progress/gear/money/etc. It stop being fun at that point.
Also, if we were living in a fantasy setting IRL, getting jumped by a different group of adventurers while fighting a dungeon boss will only be expected. This is how human beings work. I get to defeat an already weakened dungeon boss AND eliminate another competitor group ? Yeah I'll take up on this.
Thats the worst part about WoW as someone who has played for a long time. The legendaries arent legendary anymore. They have to balance the game around them because everyone has one.
Lest say a guide is full of grieffer, they can still come to your dungeon and kill you, yes they gonna turn red and yes this is dangerous for them, but they are a guild, so what can you do? It still gonna suck to get kill if you have only 20% of the boss to kill. Truth to be tell PVP in MMO is a bad idea from the start. If you like battle other player, their is a lots of other type of game for that. Yes at the start everybody will be happy and everybody will say teddy bear... But when you will find the most sweaty of guild trying to just annoy people, and you don't have all day to play but just some time.... You gonna quit and never go back.
The fact that dungeons are this in depth excites me so much. There are going to be a lot of different & cool outcomes.
Yessss we're gonna have some fun dude!
fr man this game sounds too good to be true.. xD also i really like open world bosses getting harder uses diffrent abilitys and stuff depending on players doing the activity.. cant wait for A2
Same a Dev say iam hoping that all that is said really works out.
Glad you talked about instancing in pve, I keep hearing this misconception of 20% of raids and dungeons being instanced...
I would even go further and say that this instanced content will most likely be boss encounters related to story arcs, but we'll see.
Ooh hot take!
Great video! Loved the careful parsing of how different game systems work together to create the desired experience--protecting item scarcity through non-instanced content while protecting against too much pvp conflict through death penalties. Can't wait to test it!
It's gonna be a good time!
this is a perfect summary for why my most memorable moment in MMO history was, when a small group of my friends and i went through New World's Elite zone tower, with Malevolence on top as a boss. And while grinding to the top, with a group of 5, we noticed a 20man group slowly climbing up too. so right before the final boss room we hid inside one of the water fountains there, laying and waiting silently. And luckly no one of the 20 guys noticed, they bagan the fight, nearly finished the boss, and then we struck, jumping out of the pools chipping away their healers, and finishing off the stragglers and then finishing the boss ourselves. That was a big moment on our server and made my guild infamous, to never underestimate us. It was just legendary.
Ah man that sounds awesome! Gonna be many more good times like that soon!
Mal had some massive open world PvP fights back in the day! It was such an excellent spot for ambushing flagged runs. Very good times
Dark Age of Camelot had open dungeons. As you worked your way into the dungeon, mobs would respawn behind you. Anyone coming in behind you would have to fight the repawned mobs. You could hear them fighting and react accordingly.
That is a perfect solution if they can make enemies respawning make sense. As in say it's a spider dungeon, just have more spiders hatch. Or an undead dungeon, just have the main boss reanimate the dead. Human dumgeos would be more tricky, unless there are just reinforcements that come from outside or from previously closed doors.
Another mechanic could be multiple paths through the dungeon and blocking paths, forcing the trailing party to take detours, fall into traps or even get lost.
@@HalIOfFameralso long leashes for the mobs
I love how everyone seems to agree on this point, about not wanting to be strapped in the back @@jzeat1480
Great catch on the phrasing around instancing. I always assumed entire instanced or open world dungeons. Instead, room locks as he said in the AMA might be much more prevalent than I thought. Great video as always!
@@RyveGenesis thanks man! Happy 4th!
Great video! I cant wait to see the mechanics they have in store for us. and the strife, chaos, and friend you can make as you progress threw these type of dungeons. Thanks for making these, they are the best!
Glad you liked it Squatch!
I remember one thing that was so awesome was in aion there was the battle for the castles in the pvp zone and certain high level players could transform onto a diety to help take those over easier. They were rock stars and I wanted to be one of those. I only knew of two on the asmodian side I played on. When they joined the battle people cheered and gathered to push.
That's sick! Sounds super fun
*Gimmie that good stuff!*
😎
Here is your prescription sir.
This just sounds like the precursor to every VRMMO anime’s structure I’ve ever seen. And I’m all for it
As always I brought my beer and popcorn as soon as I could, to enjoy your latest video. And as always. You deliver! Great video, and I’ve noticed his use of words regarding dungeon vs instanced! Well illustrated! 👏😁
@@Lazy_Tavern thanks Christian! I gotta keep up my rate of improvement like you!
@@TheCopiumClinic Too kind buddy 🙈
Regardless of how they end up doing dungeons, we'll adapt, rock on and have a good time. I just hope it's done in a way that keeps the hardcore pve crowd playing. We pvx fans still want as huge of a population as we can get. #InStevenWetrust
@@Mr.Nubtastic love that attitude!
Nice video! Lots of good little key details thrown in too 🤙🏻 subbed
@@JakeyEX thanks dude! Welcome to the Clinic!
Thanks for yet another excellent video. Epic Burn(s) @ 9:30 😂
Thanks Kato! I appreciate the support bro! Aaaand the sequel trilogy is not great haha
@@TheCopiumClinic I heard that. Enough times to not even try to watch it
@@KatoNamus I wish I hadn't. You're a smart man.
@@TheCopiumClinic Lol, well at least you're making the right decision this time (backing AoC 😁)
Love your videos Dr. thank you! I have fond memories of pvp in wow around Blackrock Depths and Upper and Lower BR Spire (group vs group battles on the way to dungeon entrances). I'm thinking we saw the forest dungeon, or portions of it during Alpha 1 testing (it was barebones/ not a full dungeon).
Bro I almost talked about that too! I got mind controlled into the lava haha. Good times.
Quality video! Can't wait to soundboard spam the Wilhelm scream as I test gravity mechanics. :D
Hahaha
I am ecstatic about the depth and thought intrepid puts into their systems. Another great video
Thanks Nuke-ya-lur!
I didnt want the video to end! great job bro!
@@antonious1685 that’s a huge compliment! Thanks Antonious!
@sticqeno228 Great breakdown! I was working yesterday and missed it, and tonight have seen a few streamers breakdown. Gonna have to give it to ya. Yours flowed and was the most insightful. Stay on the grind! And ps... the berserker series back there, yea... it's fire.
Amazing video! The visuals certainly help a lot! Never stop please!
Glad you liked it! I'll keep em coming
Great video man! Really enjoyed it. Subbed and looking forward to more and Ashes alpha 2 release content
@@JusticeRS ayyy! Thanks and welcome to The Clinic
Some of my best memories are from open world dungeons and raids. Cant wait to experience Intepids take on them. I do feel the modern mmo enjoyer will find this style off putting. Well some of them at least.
Yeah probably. My guess is the PvX nature of the game awakens some PvP giants from the ranks of the self-proclaimed PvErs.
Oh man, I love this video
Thanks brotha! Huge compliment coming from you!
A nice bit of nostalgia with those old clips, another banger as always
Thanks Maz!
I’m excited. You get me really excited
Another well planned, well articulated and well produced video, continue punching above your weight! Till the next visit to the Clinic
@@ironcanon4920 thanks dude! I want to make every video worth the time to watch.
Another "banger" my man! 🎉 Really well made, clear and effective. 😊
Thanks dude!
Awesome content as always 👍 That "last boss instancing" idea sounds interesting
Thanks homie! I think the variety of encounters will be nice. Something for everyone.
no one is gonna call out how that guy is wearing a spiderman costume?? @5:02
hahahaha
Asheron's Call Darktide pvp server had similar format, all the dungeons were open and clearing them could take2-4x longer due to people trying to come in and take over your progress and steal the boss kill. It made the replay factor for the game more entertaining as you always had to be paying attention to your rear, but it also could be frustrating if things did not go your way.
I could see that for sure. I think having a mix will be great. A bit of something for everyone.
it would be cool to have low and high players cooperate inside a large dungeon. Max level players engaging the last boss could summon lower level bosses on the first floor of the dungeon.
I really hope they change those dungeon names because damn are they bad.
Just seeing the name Dunzenkill Crypt makes me want to do that dungeon.
I love how this is so fun and unique. There's actually a game that's implementing this greatly : Albion online, they have static open world dungeons, bosses and content, and although there are some instanced content, it's not nearly as lucrative as the open world one, always weighting the greater rewards to the greater risks. And although lots of people complain about the game (mainly the pve only people that get annoyed when they get pvped in PVP zones) the game is still retaining and growing its playerbase over the years.
One thing that worries me about AoC though, (I've watched lots of your videos, and idk if you or someone tackled this aspect) is power imbalance between the 0.1% guilds and the rest, hoarding this kinda content and gatekeeping the dungeons to themselves and driving out the other players, moreso when the rewards are finite and exclusive, and the first organized guild / players that have access to these will gain lots of power making it harder for the other players to fight them / access those resources.
What do you think about this ? Has it been addressed by Steven ? Might be a good idea for a video or feedback to Intrepid (although I know it's a huge paradoxal issue as if less gueared or weaker players can contest and fight those players that have access to these higher more exclusive rewards, they will lose their value and be meaningless) I'm interested to see how Intrepid will tackle this issue
Also great video btw, I love your videos, well constructed and presented, and well researched, kudos to you
@@Aiyara_AoC thanks dude!
Great question. I plan to talk about this in a future video at some point. It's a serious concern a lot of us have had. Short answer is that the top .1% will have the best stuff and it won't be particularly close. However, they have to play nice because node sieges aren't capped so if they piss off the entire server, the node siege will be 500 vs 9500. Also there are a lot of mechanics which make maintaining power a constant struggle with items degrading and the potential of nodes atrophying. Hope that helps!
Ah I see, so the power of politics, alliances recruiting guilds in their node / for wars in exchange for access to these dungeons or protection a set number of times per month. I can see that happening and medium clans populating nodes that offer sharing these rarer resources and bosses occasionally.
Or the birth of a federation of smaller guilds to contest the larger guilds on their off hours even if they get a smaller piece of the pie as it's better than zero piece
@@Aiyara_AoC exactly! You inspired me to add this in my next video.
Another banger Burns! Even intrepids bosses are gathering Data. Truly a living enviroment!
Thanks Magicpipe! Broooo this last stream proved what we've been saying all along.
@@TheCopiumClinic The vindication does feel refreshing my friend.
I expect that most of the instanced dungeons will be replays of past Events on the server.
Interesting, what do you mean?
@@TheCopiumClinic the open world events that happen to a node or around a node due to player activity. Steven said you will be able to "re-live the moment" in instances.
I expect it will be like what LotRO did with their past dungeons. You go to a Mirror Pool and enter the instance there.
@@Hat_Uncle Gotcha, that could be fun!
I've had this video on an open tab for 2 weeks and I'm upset that I waited so long to watch it D: This was such an interesting video hahaha.
@@LlewdLloyd glad you liked it bro!
Waiting on the Tulnar. I need my beast races. Also, I hope they add 1st only pvp. This will add another layer to combat tactics ie flanking etc. It's hard to flank people when they have 270 degree sky view. 😂
This was great Burns! Well done Doc!
@@JibbsIRL thanks for the support bro!
Holy smoke, I never thought of this at all. This is genius. If this is how it actually works, this is incredible haha. Epic video!!
Thanks man! I think it will!
"If, if is good"
2:25 I remember playing EQ2 back in the day. Usually if you were raiding you were in FABLED category of gear, but there was 1 tier above that called MYTHIC that very few items ever were.. like the end raid boss of the majority of expansions never dropped a mythic item, it was usually reserved for something truely special.. though everyone raiding usually was fabled out. Though common gear (the lowest tier) and even treaured (which was originally designed as what you should have as a solo player on the high end) was hardly ever any good or used at all later in the game.. at base you'd get legendary gear, even as a solo player later on (which was designed as endgame group gear). The game became "Ok, I'll just buy Master crafted artisen gear until fabled just replaces everyrhing.", so you'd just skip like 3 entire gear categories... They always kept MYTHICS as something special though to be fair.
That sounds cool. I want mythic equivalents to stay rare even if I don't get them!
I hope they will do more dungeons than New World or ESO. I love dungeons but man, it gets boring going through the same walls for 2345 time
Imagine a server where nobody can do a raid or dungeon, and then some random guy with a talent for video games comes by and completes the dungeon. He would become a legend
Yeah this seems awesome. Taking old school mmo dungeon design & bringing into 2024. I have not been that hype for the game but it's starting to look awesome.
Maybe the thumbnail should say New-Old Dungeon Design haha. Thanks for the comment!
haha, Well I think making them less static & adding new ideas does make them something new. Just good they are not making super linear instanced dungeons that we have been getting since WOW
Insane video, thanks for the infos.
Thanks homie! I always try to make the video worth your time.
Lineage 2 laid the blueprint. Gonna be a good one! As long as the wow cry babies don't sway to much of the devs decision making...
Agreed! That's part of why I made my channel. Keep Ashes from going in a bad direction. Pwn the n00bs!
For me, I don't think cry babies have ever been a problem. The problem has been making a game where the PvP players can co-exist with the PvEers. And to do that you just have to incentivise PvPers to play defence. And we know an heroic defence, is more entertaining than an overwhelming offensive "Victory" against civilians. We remember real life defensive battles more - Remember the Alamo!
My view is that you need to write a game that incentivises the behaviour you want. If you create a game that makes cry-babies cry, you wrote a bad game. If you build a zoo where the tigers keep killing the antelope, you built a bad zoo. Don't blame the antelope, because they don't like being food!
@@TheToledoTrumpton Love it. Great history tie in
From the server design that Intrepid showed yesterday, their Ashes of Creation servers are going to have much more players per world than WoW, or almost any other MMO.
That will make such ladder climbing insane.
@@WilliamAGould stop getting me excited
Quality Content as always brother 🙏
Thanks for being part of it bro. And the yelling was absolutely necessary
@@TheCopiumClinic 😂😂 no problem haha and I noticed haha
They mentioned bringing large groups to world bosses reduces risk & reward. The problem here is that every server is likely to have 1 big streamer with enough people giving up the loot. I worry that every world boss is just going to have this "donation group", giving the loot to the streamer.
@@Daesig I agree that’ll happen. Gotta play politics to rally to troops against the streamers though. I’d be surprised if every server had 1 big streamer. I think we’re looking at hundreds of servers.
Ashes is my personal glimmer of hope for MMOs, i mean just take a look at Tarisland and judge about what tencen dares to deliver as an MMO!
Seriously! I think we've got a solid chance Ashes is what we think it will be.
Great Video ! So keen for A2
Thanks! Me toooo
Great video! Wonder how many we will have for A2? What did you think about the sever mesh stream?
Thanks John! The stream was great! Not a lot of systems talk, but good stuff I can sprinkle in videos from here on out. Also, it was a huge shot of copium for me. What'd you think?
@TheCopiumClinic oh yeah, I'm calling it right now. Intrepid, business of the decade. I hope I'm part of the first 500!
Listening to the studio part, it seems they are hitting on all cylinders and just killing it. I also think our fears of a2 being years have eased a bit, or at least for me anyway.
Hope you have a great 4th and Thanks for the vid! What a great way to start a holiday!
Despite it's major flaws over the years, Aion did this right. There were plenty of PvE instances, but there were also open world bosses and instances in which opposing factions could go at it at the same time. Also, some of the best instances, which offered pvp items, had entrances in contested pvp zones which could be camped. It was both good and bad.
@@Cypher84X a bit of something for everyone. That makes sense!
I can’t help but to think Steven watched those isekai mmo anime like log horizon or shangri la frontier with how open world dungeons and raids might work it got my anime brain working overtime
I could totally see that
HOLY BEARD BROTHER, we need a beard tutorial
Lol thanks bro
Hey, great video as always. What are your thoughts on the correct balance for feeling rewarded for your time & effort vs RNG loot tables along the risk-reward spectrum?
In the video, you gave an example of a non-instanced boss dropping a shard that could be used as crafting materials in elite gear. Do you know if this is the direction AoC is going?
I hope this is the case since that would be something everyone could roll on. I don't think everyone should be given a participation trophy, but RNG loot tables for a specific BiS set armor piece can get tedious on the other extreme. I'm aware AoC plans to place emphasis on crafting, but you know way more about the game than me.
Bro I've wanted to do a video on loot and the gearing systems for a long time, but we don't have enough info yet. It'd be too much speculation, even for me haha
@@TheCopiumClinic Haha fair enough man. Regardless of what Intrepid is actually planning, what are your own thoughts if you could design the rewards?
I could see potential in a loot system where ultra rare items (e.g. a Legendary Shard piece) go to only a few people in the entire raid while everyone receives some baseline reward such as a token or lesser materials (e.g. some Uncommon Shards) etc.
Perhaps these tokens or w/e could be traded in for good rewards after building them up over time but maybe not for the BiS stuff.
That's some pretty great detective work picking up on the nuance verbiage that Steven gauntlets his mind through to make sure he doesn't say anything too revealing or inaccurate. Lol.
Haha thanks Vex. Had to parse through all of the 5 syllable words he uses.
Richard was here
The algorithm appreciates your sacrifice Lil' Richard.
That was my view with the instanced content as well. I hope we are right. I've seen others convinced it's just non-important quest line stuff. I would be disappointed if so. I think instanced content is important, not to separate PvP, but because I think it's the only way to house the most difficult and coordinated group PvE encounters. Set areans and set number of people are necessary to build difficult PvE that needs to be progged. I don't think you will see "progs" in a pure open world setting.
Yeah I would be let down if it's just questline stuff too. Not sure where people got that though. I didn't find anything which would suggest that's the way it is.
@@TheCopiumClinic He made a comment like that one time in a monthly update. It was like 6-12 months ago. Sorry I can recall exactly but I remember the comment. Everything else he's said before and after doesn't seem that way to me though.
That beard is coming great! Any better and you’ll start offering quests for paladin epic mounts.
Thanks dude! Lol I might need some gigantic pauldrons first.
Have they actually shown this design working? I have heard them talk about it many times, but like the all-seeing eye, it’s only been talked about and not shown.
For example, the Carphin story-arc was procced by a dev. They didn’t put it at 99.9% ready and then actually initiate it by design, it was a dev button.
Have we seen any examples of bosses having brains that help it prioritize what it does? No, they’ve talked about it, though.
I wonder if they'll have some kind of dungeon break mechanic where sometimes monsters come out of the dungeons and attack the overworld
They've absolutely hinted at that
AoC is going to bring glory back. I am going to immerse myself so hard. Lol. Gonna be the most grand of adventures.
I think so too amigo.
Loot thing becomes an issue especially dealing with streamers and their harems if it’s open world.
Dude I didn't even think about that
It's a lot like Albion online's dungeons. A party can enter, murder, and steal the dungeon
Wake up honey. Copium Clinic posted a new video.
I really miss the orange in your profile picture.
My hype is dwindling down for aoc but this was a very interesting video.
Thanks for your comment bro!
The dungeons sound like straight out of Solo Leveling.
When Ashes of Creation is the future of everything about MMO’s, I become skeptical
@@murkYuri skepticism is healthy.
vet of Wow and Everquest and loving what im hearing about this MMO. You can tell they have played MMOs and know how to make a next gen one.
my only complaints so far:
1. graphically would of liked more for a next gen MMO, especially one running on Unreal Engine 5 that can does virutal geometry for poloygon counts and can handle more technically than any other engine. But i guess that may be a result of them starting on the game with Unreal Engine 4.
2. I think next gen MMOs should get away from levels. eventually overtime you segment the playerbase where all the players are off to new lands and the orignal lands or empty. its not bad to introduce new lands, but how about keeping relevant content in the lands you already created. but that gets hard when you have to starter levels, and level 50 area and etc. If mobs everywhere iare equally a threat than you introduce excitement to the old content regardless.
3. the combat is still to late gen. i think Dark Souls/ Elden Ring showed a combat system that scales very well with MMO technical limitations. the combat is a huge factor for MMOs and sadly its not next gen.
Question: Can you get corruption if you kill people inside a dungeon?
In an open seas dungeon, no. In the other dungeons, yes.
Steven is a Lineage 2 fan so ) in lineage are(was) no instances and free pvp everywhere, and its most exiting game ever ) wow endies never will understand that )
100%
All they need now is to copy Pax Dei's building system for player housing and I'll never put this game down
Nothing they have shown would lead anyone to think that was even remotely possible, they will have presets depending on races
@@Azaysol Let a man dream, nowhere did I say I expect them to do this
we dont need additional jobs on top of our day jobs
You missed “Dark Age Of Camelot” PVP dungeons that were gated by PVP map control. People complained but they played the game. The problem they had plages current games. The PVP goals become zerg fest. Games need to balance wvw with quick instanced spvp both impacting pvp dungeons that would drop pvp and pve items.
fun dies when there is no risk.
If people dont care about whether they die or not because they can do the dungeons and stuff anyways then whats the point.
I want to be scared of dying on the second floor of a tower dungeon and i want to rely on the healer otherwise we wont make it out alive
@@hggpi “fun does when there’s no risk” 🔥 🔥 🔥
So is AoC going to be a PvP focused game, where I can get ganked and plundered whilst I'm fighting a dungeon boss? Not followed the game for a while but always assumed it'd be a more standard PvE style affair.
Great vid, ty
@@beowningu4669 glad you liked it Ownzington!
I don't think it's exactly scarcity that is required for prestige. It's about rewards truly reflecting the players' achievements.
In WoW, a noob and an absolute gigachad will both have a near-identical gearset, with a different color. The rare mythic raiding mount doesn't even stand out among a sea of store mounts, free promotional event mounts, etc.
Everyone gets everything all the time. So I know what you mean about scarcity... but it's not so much that players need to feel a lack of rewards. There can be an abundance rewards of all kinds... ~available to those who earn them~.
It's about the integrity of the reward structure -- one that actually reflects the player's achievements and no more or less.
@@paulshelkov7956 I guess the unsaid part of the argument is that legendary gear is actually legendary in its stats and attributes.
I agree that the reward should equal the achievement.
You could get the same effect even if everything is instance. The issue in WoW, though, is now there are 4 levels of difficulty.
Everyone and their grandma can queue up and down the last boss... and get a piece of gear that's almost indistinguishable from the most elite player who wiped 250 times on that boss with their guild.
I'm preaching to the choir here.
Non-instanced content has unique benefits too, though. I want to see as much of it as possible as long as its not a lag fest.
Though if it is a lag-fest maybe there's a way of spreading players out.
@@TheCopiumClinic Yeah, it's a discrepancy between the player's input and the feedback, or reflection they get.
When the player does something legendary, they get to see their own legendary-ness mirrored back to them, and others, in the form of gear, titles, etc.
As soon as you give a "legendary" reward for something less, you've given up the integrity of the system. There's less connection between you as a player, and what you're seeing... without that it's just "pixels on a screen".
A raid boss that scales up to zergs, expands capabilities, and has better targeting, such as targeting healers over tanks. Awesome. A raid that rewards smaller raid teams specializing in teamwork. Now how do we handle the tryhards who make raiding an unpaid intern job?
We become their bosses. Haha I get what you're saying.
Why isn't everything open, making the raids, dungeons and such open, risk = reward is more fun.
@@TeeziEasy I think having something for everyone is smart. Also there are certain encounters they don’t want people to be able to Zerg. Thanks for the comment!
Somthing i tought about seeing footage of the game... I realy realy realy desperatly want mmorpg running fysics to be more realistic, why is it always so static, i mean... We have the technology. Why can they do it in single player games AC for example but not in online games?
For sure. When you have a lot of realistic physics in the game, it makes the gravity-defying feats that much cooler.
What the Hella re you even saying? You should probably forget about playing games for a while.. And, go figure out how to fix that sentence structure to be able to communicate a little better. Shit, that was painful to "read"
Scale.
People make this stuff sound so cool but also don't realize how inconvenient and annoying a lot of these features will be, imagine not being able to ever play certain parts of the game because you have a job or something ig it'll hit a niche group but idk of it'll actually work out in real life like they make it sound
people got to comfortable with MMO's, they are afraid of failing because failing is "unacceptable"
feels like in Ashes, you would most likely keep failing, until that one time you won't ^^
Freaking love it dude! Well said
I think they scrapped the utility skills. The balance was atrocious and would have led to people gatekeeping who could join their raid groups.
Do you have any sources for that? Love to see it if so.
@@TheCopiumClinic speculation. The last I heard of Utility skills was 3-5 years ago when they showcased the large, group Summon. It could still be in their design, but what they showed was hasty and terribly balanced.
Clerics would have a poison cleanse. Sounds cool, except Clerics would already be on heal/buff duty. It isnt a true Utility like finding hidden paths or opening magic doors.
But no. No evidence.
@@cmike123 I appreciate the reply!
If I had to sum up my feelings in a word, it'd be "skeptical".
Feel like I've seen this song and dance a dozen times. The devs can never outsmart a million autists who play the game 16hr/day. When I hear open world boss / finite drops, all I hear is massive zerging to guarantee said finite drops.
I appreciate the comment dude! There's good reason to be skeptical. I think Intrepid is the difference here. Buncha gamers making a game and very connected to the community. Time will tell!
Please make a video about baked beans
Hahaha I dad-chucked at this one
PVE players outnumber PvP players by a lot. While I understand the appeal of PvP, most of the time I just wanna relax and have fun not worrying about being killed.
I like a choice to participate and so many games are missing out on millions of players by not having PVE only servers. I know this game won't, and I'll likely give it a try. I won't stick around though once I get killed when I'm already in a bad mood. These types of games can't hold my interest once I lose enough progress/gear/money/etc. It stop being fun at that point.
@@tonyisme2 thanks for your comment! You should watch my video on New City Design.
Great content. Keep up the good work mf
Appreciate it homie!
Also, if we were living in a fantasy setting IRL, getting jumped by a different group of adventurers while fighting a dungeon boss will only be expected. This is how human beings work.
I get to defeat an already weakened dungeon boss AND eliminate another competitor group ? Yeah I'll take up on this.
This will be the only mmo ill be playing when released
algorithm appeasing comment
lol you're awesome
Thats the worst part about WoW as someone who has played for a long time. The legendaries arent legendary anymore. They have to balance the game around them because everyone has one.
That's the next hat! "Make Legendaries Legendary Again!" and it'll be orange.
@@TheCopiumClinic my favorite color. 🔥
Lest say a guide is full of grieffer, they can still come to your dungeon and kill you, yes they gonna turn red and yes this is dangerous for them, but they are a guild, so what can you do? It still gonna suck to get kill if you have only 20% of the boss to kill. Truth to be tell PVP in MMO is a bad idea from the start. If you like battle other player, their is a lots of other type of game for that. Yes at the start everybody will be happy and everybody will say teddy bear... But when you will find the most sweaty of guild trying to just annoy people, and you don't have all day to play but just some time.... You gonna quit and never go back.
I appreciate the comment homie!