It's a great car. Honestly people with Tesla seems to find the silliest reasons to justify why their cars are "better" - and frankly it is kind of amusing. The real question would be is the I-Pace reliable? If Jaguar can nail that down, Tesla will be in a world of hurt.
Bag hooks and LOAD TIE DOWNS! Deffo need that in the S as shopping is liberally distributed around the rear of the car after a slightly spirited drive home...
Looks like a great car, the mechanical doors with solid closing sound are exactly what I have been waiting for. My personality finds the Falcon Wing Doors of the Tesla too ostentatious. Ordered I-Pace first edition here in Seattle, just have to wait a bit.
+David Black - you hit the nail on the head. Build quality of Tesla has been questionable as of late with the Model 3. Interested to see how the long term reliability of I-Pace will be.
Jaguar should definitely sell a Chademo to CCS-combo adapter, compatible with new high-power 100kW Chademo chargers (similar in concept to the Telsa Chademo adapter). It would give the I-pace access to a lot of chargers... and could be used on other CCS equipped cars.
You make a good point about the 3-phase but a dedicated charger network or supercharger for Jaguar is not necessary. 150 kW chargers are being build right now and there will also be 350 kW chargers soon. Another dedicated charging network would just be silly. Using Tesla chargers has some legal issues and also what will happen if Tesla goes bankrupt? It would be a huge risk for Jaguar to bet on Tesla chargers.
Remember more CCS charging is coming, particularly with 350kW chargers. They could pay Tesla as could any EV manufacturer for supercharger access but it could cause interesting issues at full supercharger stations with waiting times if drivers/owners are not aware. Here's hoping on the 350kW CCS charger network that is growing.
surethom -- Really? Will they be _'everywhere'_ at full power? Will they be installed at locations with only a handful of charging ports, or with as many as 8, 12, 16 or more?
redxsage When you bear in mind these will GENERALLY be used for the "long distance" trips which probably comprise about 10% (max) of journey's, shouldn't be a problem if only say 20% (?) Of chargers have this capability. (Ionity installing 400x 350kw Europewide, plus Fastnet in Holland, for starters!)
People wanting a 3 phase charger option: the cost of an AC-DC converter is way more expensive than just one phase. It would add an extra one or two thousand euro's to the cost of the vehicle; it has to cope with phase differences, mass-issues etc... Renault had quite some issues with the Zoe. And I think most people will charge a car overnight on a slow charger and CCS for longer trips. The CCS network is expanding rapidly and the network is more dense than the Tesla chargers. Ok, most are 50kW, but the next gen of 175kW chargers are rolled out and even more is in the pipeline. And with a range of 480km's you can probably only have to charge it once or twice.
Yeah the second generation on that is going to be so good no question. I hope you asked awkward question pointing out any short comings. I’d have suggested you put up a wee Car stat figures etc at the side. What’s its range etc and what’s the battery warranty?
Henry Ford didn’t build petrol stations. Today’s car manufacturers shouldn’t have to build charging stations either. Tesla is different as it was the first mover.
That jag is certainly a really good looking car, and the interior is superb. And I don't think that detailers would be busy correcting the paint finish, before it went on display.
As an LR fan I agree JLR should talk to Tesla about charger network sharing. And off-road capability can be important, wading, poor weather are all area that proper 4x4s do well is because they have be designed from the ground up to work at extremes. I’m glad people are being so positive with I-pace. Once the teething problems and bugs are sorted it will be rolled out to LR brand.
Indeed you are right, the Jag looks superb but the charging network is currently pants! The only long distance EVs are Tesla and the BMW i3 with Rex (me!)
From £63,000! Yep, that's priced for the mass market and company car owners LOL. I think I will stick with my 2018 Nissan Leaf Tekna order that I just placed. Especially as its £37,000 less I might add.
James, how would you managing charging two cars at home? Would it be a juggling act especially in winter with pre-heat, or do you have a plan? Just thinking of my situation, but my wife works from home so she can charge during the day whilst I'm at work, then swap over when I'm back home.
There are a whole lot of things the iPace did differently than all other current production EVs, such as using 108s battery instead of 96s like many others. It’s a well known fact that all the 50 kw DC fast chargers are limited by current first (normally 125 amps) and max voltage (normally 500v). So generally when you start charging with a battery at 300 volts and 125 amps, you can only get 37.5 kw from the 50 kw charger. The iPace would start off at 42 kw right off the bat, and reach 50kw when the battery is 50% charged, and keep going at 50kw until it reaches 85%. In places where it’s not allowed to charge by the kWh, this will result in lower fast charging cost compared to a Chevy Bolt or any other EV using a 50 kw charger which charges by the minute. Not only is this cost effective, it’s also very easy on the battery, which can also accept 100kw fast charging, and perhaps even 150kw at low SOC (since its is reported to have up to 150kw regen capability). The battery is designed to last 1000 cycles, 100% depth of discharge, with 100 kw fast charge. By charging at 50 kw or less and staying 20%-90% SOC, the battery would likely last 500,000 miles before significant battery degradation occurred. It will be nice to see some reviews of the production iPace. I think it’s going to be the first EV to restore the concepts of what a $70,000 luxury car is. Then the Audi e Tron Is going to set a new benchmark in the $80,000 price range. These cars are not intended to clean up the world, it’s just to get back customers scalped by Tesla. It’s still several years away before the EV tipping point, where the working class can afford to drive EVs.
The Ioniq is capable of 175A (70kW) charging, Kona is meant to be capable of 250A (100kW). The Kona and I-Pace both use cells from LG Chem so I'm surprised that the 64kWh Kona and 90kWh I-Pace will both max out at 100kW. I would of thought the I-Pace could push the charge rate up to 350A given the relative pack sizes, are they just being more conservative with the battery?
Liam Mycroft, it depends on the cell chemistry and thermal management design. The Chevy Bolt also used LG Chem, but will barely charge at 1C, but it has a budget cooling system. Tesla has a better cooling system and can charge at about 1.5C. The Chevy Spark has a better battery cooling system and can charge at 2C. The manufacturer can also set the BMS to be more protective (like the 2018 Leaf) or less protective like Tesla, which will count the fast charges and throttle charging after that. The BMS can also be set to stay well away from max cell voltage and minimum cell voltage and let you charge to an indicated 100% and down to an indicated 0%, which would actually be 80% and 20%. Hopefully iPace starts off being over-protective and as degradation data comes in, they can relax the standards a bit. But an iPace feeding from a 50 kw fast charger should last a long time.
Ok, so does that mean that Hyundai have a better thermal management design than Chevrolet/Jaguar? The Ioniq charges at 2.5C to 80% and the Kona will be doing just over 1.5C. Ioniq uses NCM622 versus the Kona NCM811. The 811 chemistry is more thermally sensitive. I thought the Bolt used the exact same chemistry as the Ioniq, seems strange that Chevrolet would go so conservative. The I Pace is using the same chemistry as the Kona NCM811 so should also be capable of the same rate which would result in a charging power of around 140kWh. I guess I'm just surprised that two manufacturers using the batteries from the same supplier can have such a difference in charge rate.
Liam Mycroft, I think there’s not enough long term data on these cars charging at 2.5c, and a cold soaked air cooled battery can probably take the current before it gets to hot. I think the Chevy Spark used the same cells, but battery cooling, so if they were both charged in 40c Ambient temperature, the ionic might throttle down. Seems like only Tesla, Leaf and some hybrids have enough data to suggest what’s happening, and the new 2018 Nissan will take a few years to see if the new BMS and chemistry makes the battery last 10 years.
Well, shell I remind that big networks built around higher power CCS are coming? Ionity and EDF (or was it e-On?) for example. And before anyone yells "But Tesla supercharger network is free!" I also would remind, that we've seen enough changes lately to understand that is not going to last. It's not free for Model 3, and it only free for new Model S and Model X owners under certain conditions.
Hi I Ordered a I Pace in Blue 2 weeks ago. After watched your clips about the problem with the charging system ( CCS ) only and ON towing bar system option. I spec it up to £83K. I am not so sure now. 😮🤔
Very good impressions! Thanks for sharing. It seems Jaguar is definitely ahead of all the Germans when it comes to long range electric vehicles. BMW has recently pushed back their _'electrification'_ plans, just as AUDI has done, to some mythical time frame between 2020 and 2025. The i-Pace is definitely not for me, though I am sure it will appeal to a lot of other people. Especially those who put a higher priority on things like _prestige, tradition, heritage, 'luxury',_ and _fit & finish_ than I do -- good for them! I am not aware of what production/sales level Jaguar is targeting with this car, though. If the i-Pace is to be anything less than 10% of Jaguar's annual output it will be a very rare sight indeed. If the manufacturing capacity is less than the XJ, then it will be practically non-existent.
100% about fitting 22kw charging on ALL EV's. I did my Vlog on the New leaf last week and i find it a massive let down it can only charge 7kw AC. My Zoe can handle 43kw AC which is great but i have no DC option and it doesn't look like DC is coming to Zoe till 2019 according to the reports I've been given.
Nice car. So much better with the white interior instead of the black. You are right about them needing to join up with Tesla superchargers. Chademo maybe?...
Nice, should do well, but you are right about the charging network. While I'm here, Electric Leaf Man has had a right problem with the Nissan Ambassador programme, the equivalent of the Tesla Referral programme. (Allegedly) configured so that the referer just can't make anything out of it. You may want to scan his video and have a word ...
I like a lot of things about the I-Pace, however it needs faster charging for both DC and AC, rear visibility looks quite bad, don't like the center console too much and I would like it a bit taller. Still I would consider it for my first long range EV.
What's the projected cost of the i-Pace car? What's the charging costs or will they be free like Tesla? What's the maintenance support network for repairs like? . Are electric vehicles more expensive to insure?
What kills it for me is no three phase charging. In Germany it means it'll be single phase charging at home at 3.7 kW (some may get to 4.6 kW). With a 90 kWh battery that can be problematic. I can charge my ZOE at home at 22 kW, Model 3 will do at least 11 kW, perhaps 16.5 kW. I hardly see Jaguars (or any other car) charging at Tesla superchargers. It requires a modified type 2 socket, different charging protocols and an agreement between Tesla and Jaguar so money can flow. Why would Jaguar help Telsa grow their network? It's not their line of thinking. It could be very different if Tesla changed to CCS.
I think Jaguar made a mistake in not putting the three-phase charger. It takes an infinite amount of time to load 100 kwh at 7 kw. CCS is not a problem for example in Italy we have CCS, Chademo and 43 kW Type 2 (for Zoe) in one charging station. i love this car but the only think that stop me to buy it is the cost and the charging infrastructure. at this point i will take a model x or model y (i hope in the future). now i have a Zoe Q210 with 43 kW Charging Power, in three months i will retrofit the car into 40 kWh version, Renaul will swap my battery with a 40 kwh new one.
Thanks James. CCS is a big let-down for Jaguar. As you say, Supercharger access would be the cherry on the cake for the iPace. Even ChaDeMo would be better. As for the old men on skateboards..... to each his own. :-)
I do hope that over the next year (as CCS cars become more and more prevalent) the number of CCS chargers will expand dramatically. Given that it would be a while before you'd get an I-PACE anyway, hopefully that'll help them out.
I can understand that the Charging Network ist extremly important for an EV and that it doesn't look such good with it at the momment. But I am I bit suprised, that James at least in the video didn't think about the future, and that RWBHere even says that ChaDemO would be better. Maybe it is a UK thing? Because the European Union recommends CCS as a standard since years. Here in Germany there is even a law, that every new installed public Fastcharger has to be CCS (Chademo as an addiotinal option is possible, but Chademo-alone is not allowed). Nearly all car manufacturers (even Tesla!) are members in the "CharIn", who develops and promote CCS. Except Nissan - but actually I was surprised that they sell the new Leaf inimn Europe with Chademo. Because probabl all other upcoming EVs in Europe will have CCS. CCS is the future in Europe. And there are several companys that build CCS-Chargers. Probably the biggest is "Ionity", a joint-venture of Daimler, BMW, Audi, Porsche and Ford. They have started to build its CCS-only-network, the first station is in Denmark. They plan 400 station until 2020 along the european highways: www.electrive.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ionity-ladestationen-karte-ev-summit-oslo.png
CCS is the way to go in Europe imho. Faster 100+ kW CCS chargers are allready installed in several places. What charging speed can the I Pace take in? I thought it was only 50 kW.
More than 1000 contracts signed, 2400 estimated for this year... All orders are mainly on first edition(829900NOK) or HSE(746900NOK)... norwegians do like their EV's with all the bells and whistles...
Jaguar are a car company not an energy company also if Tesla increase the price per kWh too much it would make it uneconomical. but if u have free super charging it doesn't matter
The Ionity Charge network ( due in 2020) will be a huge advantage for electric cars, always have and probably will be a tesla lover but very glad jaf has hit the electric market, shame they are competing against a car that is better rather then proving the car is better then gas cars
Hey James what do you think of Porsche's announcement that they plan are charging about the equivalent price to gasoline for recharging their cars on their 800 Volt charging network could Jaguar end up going this direction in the future. They plan on investing upwards of a 1/2 billion dollars for a rapid build-out of their charging network and they believe Tesla supercharging network is not sustainable at the rate they charge even with the recent price increase. I think Porsche idea is a bad one they need to offer somewhat of an advantage over gasoline prices at least as far as range goes. I know that Tesla rated around 80 to 95 miles per mile electric range I don't know where Porsche will end up being rated. Ether way it sounds like recharging a Porsche could be considerably more expensive then a Tesla. It also seems that recent growing access of charging networks around the world averages to be higher also then Tesla rates they charge. Long time owners like yourself have enjoyed free charging at supercharging networks this will eventually end as people trade in their cars. This could be the new ground that Tesla has to deal with as they talk about building very large solar arrray's and battery systems at their supercharger stations to help off load some of the costs for electricity during peak times.
For myself where i drive, which is mostly south uk, but do have family in France, The super chargers sound fantastic, but I don't pass them, the journey in France none on way, but one 45 mins away which frankly wouldn't be worth the effort, generally don't use the car that much there. same goes in uk, while they are clearly well rated chargers because of there locations its non issue should I ever be in the position to get a tesla/I-pace. on a other point, I think should you ever get a EV with 400+ mile between stops you'd notice it, since you do seem to stop a lot, I when from a 250 to 450 mile range ICE car few years back and makes a surprising distance since it quite often I can drive somewhere and back with out having to think about fuel.
cinema writer it’s not that they don’t work, it’s simply that with out a fairly significant diversion they aren’t on route. Realistically I’d probably just plug in at my uncles
The USA price will be without tax. They don't include it like we do with VAT as different states have different rates and taxes. Happy to be corrected if wrong.
In the US tax rate variation isn't at the State level, it is at the CITY level. For example, I live on the boarder of two counties, my sales tax rate is 7.75%. The next town over, which is where my dealership is, is in another county with a tax rate of 7.875%.
Nice car, and excellent to have choice in premium electric car market, but James is right; with the problems of CCS in the UK, this is a non-starter. Hopefully this will change by 2019 or 20, but Jag need to understand, its not the car that is the problem.
Jaguar went with CCS because of it being an international standard, and by design, able to handle higher amps than CHAdeMO which is a proprietary interface owned by Tokyo Electric that as designed, maxes out at 50kW. CCS chargers can run at 350kW and are already being rolled out.
I don´t think they made the car for yesterday. They are projecting into the future and there, it seems, CCS is abundant. Traditional manufacturers don´t seem to be building their own chargers because it is cheaper to let someone else do that. Besides, having too many chargers would accelerate the transition to electric. We can´t have that, now can we? ;)
Yes, give the iPace Tesla super charging and Jaguar have a world beating car on their hands. Why is it that all these car companies treat Tesla as the enemy and what was that stupid Model X comparison video Jaguar made suposed to achive?
redxsage Considering 95+% NEVER use 0-100 kph, let alone 0-100mph on the road, it's not such a "revoltin' development" Anyway, these EV's would crucify a cobra in the "traffic light Grand Prix"
It looks a great car, but, not really for the average guy in the UK, who's looking for a decent range EV car. There's no way I could afford one, just wish the main manufacturers got there acts together and produced more main stream vehicles for the average person on a basic salary.
Supercharger network is great for the minority but monopoly of one manufacturer is poor. It is not what we are about as a country so I have no idea how it happened in the UK. It is like petrol stations for just Suzuki. It just would not happen. Hopefully this nonsense will be outlawed when 2025 comes along as all the European vehicles take over. I like Tesla but as each year has gone by I loose respect due the network. The brand has become like cola did before the monopoly rulings.
Honestly if they sold one for £30k, I'd be all over that. At the moment though (in the UK), big range equals big price. On the upside a well built EV should be considerably cheaper to run and own than an ICE vehicle (fuel, servicing, repair, etc...).
I can only dream of a £60000 car , 8-10 k is my absolute limit for a car everything is just too expensive I don't know anyone who can afford a 60 k car
If Jaguar invested in building their own charging network, or even invested in using Tesla's, the price of the I-Pace would be higher than what it is. They didn't choose CCS because of any of the stupid conspiracy theories that people here have been suggesting, they chose it because just about every western manufacturer has chosen it, and with all those companies planning full production EV's by 2022 Jaguar simply doesn't need to invest in charging because it's quite clear other companies, such as Ecotricity, are pretty much required to do it for them. It's easy to look at CCS now and say it's not enough, but how many Tesla Superchargers were available in the UK when the Model S first launched? There is clearly about to be a lot of money to be made building and operating CCS chargers.
Yeah, I'm hoping it won't be a problem for the vast majority of future I-PACE owners, once they get there cars. When I got my Tesla, there was only one supercharger site, 6 months later there were 5 or so, 12 months after that they seemed to be popping up all over the place. That's what Jag needs with 100kW CCS chargers.
Where it could potentially get interesting is if other fuel companies like BP match Shell and start installing chargers everywhere there's a fuel pump. If there is a 50kwh CCS charger every 100 metres then the higher capacity charging may not even be necessary. More convenient, but less of a requirement
People need to rethink about how to charge electric cars. The petrol station model is not really suitable for these vehicles with the current technology. The flexibility of electricity is so under utilised. We need chargers where people park for 1-3 hours. Shoppingg centres, parks, recreational grounds, gym car parks etc etc. It is happening already but the capacity is huge. We don't really need many of the very powerful chargers. We need them along the motorways for long distance but in the cities we need many low powered ones.
You need to be an energycompany to sell charge. As Tesla is. Jag could potentially use the supercharger. And there will be many many ccs 150-350kwh chargers built in the next years. So the only downside is the 3 phase internal charger(wich i believe jag should have as an accessory) still a too expensive car.
CHAdeMO isn't compatible with CCS. They use very different communication methods. That's why there aren't any converter cables. If Jaguar were to instal both it would over complicate the charger and increase the price of the car. 3 phase is definitely something they should have done, but they went with CCS because it is the charging standard that most western manufacturers have adopted. CHAdeMO is popular right now mostly because of Nissan, but by 2020 CCS cars will greatly outnumber CHAdeMO. Throughout Europe and North America and that is obviously going to lead to a big overhaul of the CCS network on both continents. It's all about supply and demand.
I could tell that you really like the Jaguar, but your loyalty to Tesla held you back. I believe that older drivers will like the fit and finish of the Jaguar. And will feel more comfortable with an established manufacturer. The interior design along with the standard grill will also push them towards the Jaguar.
The lack of third party access to the supercharger network is deliberate on Teslas part. Elon Musk is able to build reusable orbital rockets but can't install Chip and Pin into Superchargers🤔
redxsage Back in 2011 SAE had developed their own CCS system. A system that is now being improved for 350Kw. I see no reason for not making a car duel compatible, Teslas can plug into just about anything. I also see no reason why SAEs lack of support would stop Tesla from selling access to it's own network.
Very good impressions! Thanks for sharing. It seems Jaguar is definitely ahead of all the Germans when it comes to long range electric vehicles. BMW has recently pushed back their _'electrification'_ plans, just as AUDI has done, to some mythical time frame between 2020 and 2025. The i-Pace is definitely not for me, though I am sure it will appeal to a lot of other people. Especially those who put a higher priority on things like _prestige, tradition, heritage, 'luxury',_ and _fit & finish_ than I do -- good for them! I am not aware of what production/sales level Jaguar is targeting with this car, though. If the i-Pace is to be anything less than 10% of Jaguar's annual output it will be a very rare sight indeed. If the manufacturing capacity is less than the XJ, then it will be practically non-existent.
And today Waymo and Jaguar announced a deal where Waymo buys 20 000 i-Paces for their autonomous program. So that is 20k cars sold already :)
It's a great car. Honestly people with Tesla seems to find the silliest reasons to justify why their cars are "better" - and frankly it is kind of amusing.
The real question would be is the I-Pace reliable? If Jaguar can nail that down, Tesla will be in a world of hurt.
Bag hooks and LOAD TIE DOWNS! Deffo need that in the S as shopping is liberally distributed around the rear of the car after a slightly spirited drive home...
Looks like a great car, the mechanical doors with solid closing sound are exactly what I have been waiting for. My personality finds the Falcon Wing Doors of the Tesla too ostentatious. Ordered I-Pace first edition here in Seattle, just have to wait a bit.
+David Black - you hit the nail on the head. Build quality of Tesla has been questionable as of late with the Model 3. Interested to see how the long term reliability of I-Pace will be.
Its really hard to know for sure, that is the risk to buying an early I-Pace. I have faith I-Pace will be reliable.
Enjoyed your E for Electric live stream James.
Cheers Aaron.
Jaguar should definitely sell a Chademo to CCS-combo adapter, compatible with new high-power 100kW Chademo chargers (similar in concept to the Telsa Chademo adapter). It would give the I-pace access to a lot of chargers... and could be used on other CCS equipped cars.
You make a good point about the 3-phase but a dedicated charger network or supercharger for Jaguar is not necessary. 150 kW chargers are being build right now and there will also be 350 kW chargers soon. Another dedicated charging network would just be silly. Using Tesla chargers has some legal issues and also what will happen if Tesla goes bankrupt? It would be a huge risk for Jaguar to bet on Tesla chargers.
Remember more CCS charging is coming, particularly with 350kW chargers. They could pay Tesla as could any EV manufacturer for supercharger access but it could cause interesting issues at full supercharger stations with waiting times if drivers/owners are not aware. Here's hoping on the 350kW CCS charger network that is growing.
Ccs super/rapid charging is the future for the majority, by 2020 ccs will be everywhere in UK & Europe.
surethom -- Really? Will they be _'everywhere'_ at full power? Will they be installed at locations with only a handful of charging ports, or with as many as 8, 12, 16 or more?
redxsage
When you bear in mind these will GENERALLY be used for the "long distance" trips which probably comprise about 10% (max) of journey's, shouldn't be a problem if only say 20% (?) Of chargers have this capability. (Ionity installing 400x 350kw Europewide, plus Fastnet in Holland, for starters!)
People wanting a 3 phase charger option: the cost of an AC-DC converter is way more expensive than just one phase. It would add an extra one or two thousand euro's to the cost of the vehicle; it has to cope with phase differences, mass-issues etc... Renault had quite some issues with the Zoe. And I think most people will charge a car overnight on a slow charger and CCS for longer trips. The CCS network is expanding rapidly and the network is more dense than the Tesla chargers. Ok, most are 50kW, but the next gen of 175kW chargers are rolled out and even more is in the pipeline. And with a range of 480km's you can probably only have to charge it once or twice.
Yeah the second generation on that is going to be so good no question. I hope you asked awkward question pointing out any short comings. I’d have suggested you put up a wee Car stat figures etc at the side. What’s its range etc and what’s the battery warranty?
Great video question are you going to buy the model 3?
James looks like busy with Jury duty meanwhile lot happening in Tesla front ....and stock ofcourse
Wow, FINALLY, an EV for the masses! "Jaguar confirms all-electric I-Pace starting price of $69,500 in the U.S."
Don't forget the $7500 tax rebate -- that will really help bring the cost down to the point where everyone can afford an EV.
Henry Ford didn’t build petrol stations. Today’s car manufacturers shouldn’t have to build charging stations either. Tesla is different as it was the first mover.
That jag is certainly a really good looking car, and the interior is superb. And I don't think that detailers would be busy correcting the paint finish, before it went on display.
As an LR fan I agree JLR should talk to Tesla about charger network sharing.
And off-road capability can be important, wading, poor weather are all area that proper 4x4s do well is because they have be designed from the ground up to work at extremes.
I’m glad people are being so positive with I-pace. Once the teething problems and bugs are sorted it will be rolled out to LR brand.
I would definitely feel much more confident driving an I-PACE off-road than I would a Model X. JLR have off-road in their very DNA.
Cheers James, I really enjoy your EV posts. Also thanks for putting up with Mark, my fault I’m afraid lol .
Lee Alberga lol!!
Indeed you are right, the Jag looks superb but the charging network is currently pants! The only long distance EVs are Tesla and the BMW i3 with Rex (me!)
Electric skate board bag! love it :)
Are those door pockets and sun-glasses holder? :)
From £63,000! Yep, that's priced for the mass market and company car owners LOL. I think I will stick with my 2018 Nissan Leaf Tekna order that I just placed. Especially as its £37,000 less I might add.
James, how would you managing charging two cars at home? Would it be a juggling act especially in winter with pre-heat, or do you have a plan? Just thinking of my situation, but my wife works from home so she can charge during the day whilst I'm at work, then swap over when I'm back home.
There are a whole lot of things the iPace did differently than all other current production EVs, such as using 108s battery instead of 96s like many others. It’s a well known fact that all the 50 kw DC fast chargers are limited by current first (normally 125 amps) and max voltage (normally 500v). So generally when you start charging with a battery at 300 volts and 125 amps, you can only get 37.5 kw from the 50 kw charger. The iPace would start off at 42 kw right off the bat, and reach 50kw when the battery is 50% charged, and keep going at 50kw until it reaches 85%.
In places where it’s not allowed to charge by the kWh, this will result in lower fast charging cost compared to a Chevy Bolt or any other EV using a 50 kw charger which charges by the minute. Not only is this cost effective, it’s also very easy on the battery, which can also accept 100kw fast charging, and perhaps even 150kw at low SOC (since its is reported to have up to 150kw regen capability).
The battery is designed to last 1000 cycles, 100% depth of discharge, with 100 kw fast charge. By charging at 50 kw or less and staying 20%-90% SOC, the battery would likely last 500,000 miles before significant battery degradation occurred.
It will be nice to see some reviews of the production iPace. I think it’s going to be the first EV to restore the concepts of what a $70,000 luxury car is. Then the Audi e Tron Is going to set a new benchmark in the $80,000 price range. These cars are not intended to clean up the world, it’s just to get back customers scalped by Tesla. It’s still several years away before the EV tipping point, where the working class can afford to drive EVs.
The Ioniq is capable of 175A (70kW) charging, Kona is meant to be capable of 250A (100kW). The Kona and I-Pace both use cells from LG Chem so I'm surprised that the 64kWh Kona and 90kWh I-Pace will both max out at 100kW. I would of thought the I-Pace could push the charge rate up to 350A given the relative pack sizes, are they just being more conservative with the battery?
Liam Mycroft, it depends on the cell chemistry and thermal management design. The Chevy Bolt also used LG Chem, but will barely charge at 1C, but it has a budget cooling system. Tesla has a better cooling system and can charge at about 1.5C. The Chevy Spark has a better battery cooling system and can charge at 2C.
The manufacturer can also set the BMS to be more protective (like the 2018 Leaf) or less protective like Tesla, which will count the fast charges and throttle charging after that. The BMS can also be set to stay well away from max cell voltage and minimum cell voltage and let you charge to an indicated 100% and down to an indicated 0%, which would actually be 80% and 20%.
Hopefully iPace starts off being over-protective and as degradation data comes in, they can relax the standards a bit. But an iPace feeding from a 50 kw fast charger should last a long time.
Ok, so does that mean that Hyundai have a better thermal management design than Chevrolet/Jaguar? The Ioniq charges at 2.5C to 80% and the Kona will be doing just over 1.5C. Ioniq uses NCM622 versus the Kona NCM811. The 811 chemistry is more thermally sensitive.
I thought the Bolt used the exact same chemistry as the Ioniq, seems strange that Chevrolet would go so conservative.
The I Pace is using the same chemistry as the Kona NCM811 so should also be capable of the same rate which would result in a charging power of around 140kWh.
I guess I'm just surprised that two manufacturers using the batteries from the same supplier can have such a difference in charge rate.
Liam Mycroft, I think there’s not enough long term data on these cars charging at 2.5c, and a cold soaked air cooled battery can probably take the current before it gets to hot. I think the Chevy Spark used the same cells, but battery cooling, so if they were both charged in 40c Ambient temperature, the ionic might throttle down.
Seems like only Tesla, Leaf and some hybrids have enough data to suggest what’s happening, and the new 2018 Nissan will take a few years to see if the new BMS and chemistry makes the battery last 10 years.
17 hours non stop flight from Australia to UK just completed, how big a battery would you need for that ?
This is now another dream car for me!!!
Well, shell I remind that big networks built around higher power CCS are coming? Ionity and EDF (or was it e-On?) for example.
And before anyone yells "But Tesla supercharger network is free!" I also would remind, that we've seen enough changes lately to understand that is not going to last. It's not free for Model 3, and it only free for new Model S and Model X owners under certain conditions.
Hi I Ordered a I Pace in Blue 2 weeks ago. After watched your clips about the problem with the charging system ( CCS ) only and ON towing bar system option. I spec it up to £83K. I am not so sure now. 😮🤔
Is the jag available on lease or good business deals . Very expensive and charging a bit naff, my Zoe has more flexible charging
Very good impressions! Thanks for sharing. It seems Jaguar is definitely ahead of all the Germans when it comes to long range electric vehicles. BMW has recently pushed back their _'electrification'_ plans, just as AUDI has done, to some mythical time frame between 2020 and 2025.
The i-Pace is definitely not for me, though I am sure it will appeal to a lot of other people. Especially those who put a higher priority on things like _prestige, tradition, heritage, 'luxury',_ and _fit & finish_ than I do -- good for them!
I am not aware of what production/sales level Jaguar is targeting with this car, though. If the i-Pace is to be anything less than 10% of Jaguar's annual output it will be a very rare sight indeed. If the manufacturing capacity is less than the XJ, then it will be practically non-existent.
100% about fitting 22kw charging on ALL EV's. I did my Vlog on the New leaf last week and i find it a massive let down it can only charge 7kw AC. My Zoe can handle 43kw AC which is great but i have no DC option and it doesn't look like DC is coming to Zoe till 2019 according to the reports I've been given.
Nice car. So much better with the white interior instead of the black. You are right about them needing to join up with Tesla superchargers. Chademo maybe?...
Sophie's new car..... look good in your driveway 😋
4:03 Those are some giant air bag warnings. The ones in my 3 were tiny and I still removed them.
Nice, should do well, but you are right about the charging network.
While I'm here, Electric Leaf Man has had a right problem with the Nissan Ambassador programme, the equivalent of the Tesla Referral programme. (Allegedly) configured so that the referer just can't make anything out of it. You may want to scan his video and have a word ...
Umm, thanks for the heads up, I'll get in touch with him and see what's been going on.
I wish I could afford an i-Pace, it is a beautiful looking car.
brilliant car
I like a lot of things about the I-Pace, however it needs faster charging for both DC and AC, rear visibility looks quite bad, don't like the center console too much and I would like it a bit taller. Still I would consider it for my first long range EV.
What's the projected cost of the i-Pace car? What's the charging costs or will they be free like Tesla? What's the maintenance support network for repairs like? . Are electric vehicles more expensive to insure?
Just found out the cost of the Jaguar i-Pace its £63,000 so that's off my list of potential car purchases.
Do you think Tesla would sell access to their SuperChargers to another company ?
What kills it for me is no three phase charging. In Germany it means it'll be single phase charging at home at 3.7 kW (some may get to 4.6 kW). With a 90 kWh battery that can be problematic. I can charge my ZOE at home at 22 kW, Model 3 will do at least 11 kW, perhaps 16.5 kW.
I hardly see Jaguars (or any other car) charging at Tesla superchargers. It requires a modified type 2 socket, different charging protocols and an agreement between Tesla and Jaguar so money can flow. Why would Jaguar help Telsa grow their network? It's not their line of thinking. It could be very different if Tesla changed to CCS.
Enjoyable
I think Jaguar made a mistake in not putting the three-phase charger. It takes an infinite amount of time to load 100 kwh at 7 kw.
CCS is not a problem for example in Italy we have CCS, Chademo and 43 kW Type 2 (for Zoe) in one charging station.
i love this car but the only think that stop me to buy it is the cost and the charging infrastructure. at this point i will take a model x or model y (i hope in the future). now i have a Zoe Q210 with 43 kW Charging Power, in three months i will retrofit the car into 40 kWh version, Renaul will swap my battery with a 40 kwh new one.
Thanks James. CCS is a big let-down for Jaguar. As you say, Supercharger access would be the cherry on the cake for the iPace. Even ChaDeMo would be better.
As for the old men on skateboards..... to each his own. :-)
I do hope that over the next year (as CCS cars become more and more prevalent) the number of CCS chargers will expand dramatically. Given that it would be a while before you'd get an I-PACE anyway, hopefully that'll help them out.
As for the old men on skateboards. LOL Must say gets a bit much
I can understand that the Charging Network ist extremly important for an EV and that it doesn't look such good with it at the momment. But I am I bit suprised, that James at least in the video didn't think about the future, and that RWBHere even says that ChaDemO would be better. Maybe it is a UK thing? Because the European Union recommends CCS as a standard since years. Here in Germany there is even a law, that every new installed public Fastcharger has to be CCS (Chademo as an addiotinal option is possible, but Chademo-alone is not allowed). Nearly all car manufacturers (even Tesla!) are members in the "CharIn", who develops and promote CCS. Except Nissan - but actually I was surprised that they sell the new Leaf inimn Europe with Chademo. Because probabl all other upcoming EVs in Europe will have CCS. CCS is the future in Europe.
And there are several companys that build CCS-Chargers. Probably the biggest is "Ionity", a joint-venture of Daimler, BMW, Audi, Porsche and Ford. They have started to build its CCS-only-network, the first station is in Denmark. They plan 400 station until 2020 along the european highways:
www.electrive.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ionity-ladestationen-karte-ev-summit-oslo.png
In the UK, CCS outnumbers supercharger by about 3 or 4 to 1. And it's being installed about 10 times faster.
I-Pace will like the charging network in Norway... hence why a crap load of Norwegians have ordered it.. Nice editing...
R. E. Hill Yes, it looks like this will be a successful car in Norway.
CCS is the way to go in Europe imho. Faster 100+ kW CCS chargers are allready installed in several places.
What charging speed can the I Pace take in? I thought it was only 50 kW.
The Jag can take 100KW CCS
More than 1000 contracts signed, 2400 estimated for this year... All orders are mainly on first edition(829900NOK) or HSE(746900NOK)... norwegians do like their EV's with all the bells and whistles...
The onboard hardware tops out at 120kw or so. It's currently software limited to 100kW, but that might be increased by an OTA.
Will Sophie consider to buy an I-Pace?? That would be awesome!! Love the show!! ^_^.
Jaguar are a car company not an energy company also if Tesla increase the price per kWh too much it would make it uneconomical. but if u have free super charging it doesn't matter
The supercharging is not free, it's included in the price of the car.
The new BMW M5 is £100k I would rather have this anyday
The Ionity Charge network ( due in 2020) will be a huge advantage for electric cars, always have and probably will be a tesla lover but very glad jaf has hit the electric market, shame they are competing against a car that is better rather then proving the car is better then gas cars
One thing I did notice on the iPace is the appalling update rate of the instrument cluster... Your S will be buttery smooth in comparison...
Good point, but in fairness the instrument cluster was showing a "demo" selection of screen shots, perhaps it is smoother when it is running normally?
There's a CarWow video showing it whilst driving. It's properly bad...Hopefully a firmware update will fix, but until then it looks positively 90s :-D
Hey James what do you think of Porsche's announcement that they plan are charging about the equivalent price to gasoline for recharging their cars on their 800 Volt charging network could Jaguar end up going this direction in the future. They plan on investing upwards of a 1/2 billion dollars for a rapid build-out of their charging network and they believe Tesla supercharging network is not sustainable at the rate they charge even with the recent price increase. I think Porsche idea is a bad one they need to offer somewhat of an advantage over gasoline prices at least as far as range goes.
I know that Tesla rated around 80 to 95 miles per mile electric range I don't know where Porsche will end up being rated. Ether way it sounds like recharging a Porsche could be considerably more expensive then a Tesla. It also seems that recent growing access of charging networks around the world averages to be higher also then Tesla rates they charge. Long time owners like yourself have enjoyed free charging at supercharging networks this will eventually end as people trade in their cars.
This could be the new ground that Tesla has to deal with as they talk about building very large solar arrray's and battery systems at their supercharger stations to help off load some of the costs for electricity during peak times.
For myself where i drive, which is mostly south uk, but do have family in France, The super chargers sound fantastic, but I don't pass them, the journey in France none on way, but one 45 mins away which frankly wouldn't be worth the effort, generally don't use the car that much there. same goes in uk, while they are clearly well rated chargers because of there locations its non issue should I ever be in the position to get a tesla/I-pace.
on a other point, I think should you ever get a EV with 400+ mile between stops you'd notice it, since you do seem to stop a lot, I when from a 250 to 450 mile range ICE car few years back and makes a surprising distance since it quite often I can drive somewhere and back with out having to think about fuel.
cinema writer it’s not that they don’t work, it’s simply that with out a fairly significant diversion they aren’t on route. Realistically I’d probably just plug in at my uncles
James the I-Pace is £64,000 in the UK in America it's $69,500 that converts to £59,000, why do we always get ripped off in the UK? :(
Chris Chris: US price does not include VAT.
The USA price will be without tax. They don't include it like we do with VAT as different states have different rates and taxes. Happy to be corrected if wrong.
It's $69,500 + sales tax in the US, and £53,333+VAT in the UK
In the US tax rate variation isn't at the State level, it is at the CITY level. For example, I live on the boarder of two counties, my sales tax rate is 7.75%. The next town over, which is where my dealership is, is in another county with a tax rate of 7.875%.
What about OTA updates and autopilot?
Bernt Granbacke first 3 years updates are free.....no AP.
Is it cheaper than the Model X she wants so much?
It is cheaper, but not a huge amount.
Nice car, and excellent to have choice in premium electric car market, but James is right; with the problems of CCS in the UK, this is a non-starter. Hopefully this will change by 2019 or 20, but Jag need to understand, its not the car that is the problem.
Jaguar went with CCS because of it being an international standard, and by design, able to handle higher amps than CHAdeMO which is a proprietary interface owned by Tokyo Electric that as designed, maxes out at 50kW. CCS chargers can run at 350kW and are already being rolled out.
Sounds pretty fantastic to me!
I don´t think they made the car for yesterday. They are projecting into the future and there, it seems, CCS is abundant. Traditional manufacturers don´t seem to be building their own chargers because it is cheaper to let someone else do that. Besides, having too many chargers would accelerate the transition to electric. We can´t have that, now can we? ;)
CCS is a good design, its just the network of CCS chargers is not up to standard yet...
Fen Tour
Do I recall correctly? 400 supersaturation chargers on major routes in Europe announced recently?
Yes, give the iPace Tesla super charging and Jaguar have a world beating car on their hands. Why is it that all these car companies treat Tesla as the enemy and what was that stupid Model X comparison video Jaguar made suposed to achive?
John Hughes -- 0-100-0 kph instead of 0-100-0 MPH, apparently. Carroll Shelby would be hoppin' mad at such a revoltin' development.
Well said 👍
redxsage
Considering 95+% NEVER use 0-100 kph, let alone 0-100mph on the road, it's not such a "revoltin' development"
Anyway, these EV's would crucify a cobra in the "traffic light Grand Prix"
Yeah. That video they did against the Tesla put me off.
but why would tesla allow them after the last tesla killer advertisment hahaahah
Never sat in the back in the video. you look like about 6'1" or 2", if I am correct. how was the back seat, if someone your size was driving??
I'd say the rear head room was better than my Model S (I did sit in it briefly, but clearly forgot to film that bit).
How about the leg room in the rear??
Tesla Solihull I see!!
It looks a great car, but, not really for the average guy in the UK, who's looking for a decent range EV car. There's no way I could afford one, just wish the main manufacturers got there acts together and produced more main stream vehicles for the average person on a basic salary.
Supercharger network is great for the minority but monopoly of one manufacturer is poor. It is not what we are about as a country so I have no idea how it happened in the UK. It is like petrol stations for just Suzuki. It just would not happen. Hopefully this nonsense will be outlawed when 2025 comes along as all the European vehicles take over. I like Tesla but as each year has gone by I loose respect due the network. The brand has become like cola did before the monopoly rulings.
At 466 Wh/m the iPace range is pathetic
Who on earth considers paying £60k+ for a vehicle? I've had many new cars as don't do 'used' but my limit nowadays is ca £30k
Honestly if they sold one for £30k, I'd be all over that. At the moment though (in the UK), big range equals big price. On the upside a well built EV should be considerably cheaper to run and own than an ICE vehicle (fuel, servicing, repair, etc...).
Nick Hickson that's cheap for a car nowadays it's called inflation
I can only dream of a £60000 car , 8-10 k is my absolute limit for a car everything is just too expensive I don't know anyone who can afford a 60 k car
£60k is way more then I earn a year. And I never consider cars that cost more then 6 month wages. Which leaves me mostly with second hand.
Not much room in the car. I would probably have to view it in the flesh like you did. I think Model X is probably my choice........ If I had the money
It was fairly roomy in person, not as big as a Model X, but then not everyone wants or needs that much room (like you, I do though).
I like my room just like you. The interior in the I Pace looks nice though
If Jaguar invested in building their own charging network, or even invested in using Tesla's, the price of the I-Pace would be higher than what it is.
They didn't choose CCS because of any of the stupid conspiracy theories that people here have been suggesting, they chose it because just about every western manufacturer has chosen it, and with all those companies planning full production EV's by 2022 Jaguar simply doesn't need to invest in charging because it's quite clear other companies, such as Ecotricity, are pretty much required to do it for them.
It's easy to look at CCS now and say it's not enough, but how many Tesla Superchargers were available in the UK when the Model S first launched?
There is clearly about to be a lot of money to be made building and operating CCS chargers.
Yeah, I'm hoping it won't be a problem for the vast majority of future I-PACE owners, once they get there cars. When I got my Tesla, there was only one supercharger site, 6 months later there were 5 or so, 12 months after that they seemed to be popping up all over the place. That's what Jag needs with 100kW CCS chargers.
Where it could potentially get interesting is if other fuel companies like BP match Shell and start installing chargers everywhere there's a fuel pump.
If there is a 50kwh CCS charger every 100 metres then the higher capacity charging may not even be necessary. More convenient, but less of a requirement
People need to rethink about how to charge electric cars. The petrol station model is not really suitable for these vehicles with the current technology. The flexibility of electricity is so under utilised. We need chargers where people park for 1-3 hours. Shoppingg centres, parks, recreational grounds, gym car parks etc etc. It is happening already but the capacity is huge. We don't really need many of the very powerful chargers. We need them along the motorways for long distance but in the cities we need many low powered ones.
You need to be an energycompany to sell charge. As Tesla is. Jag could potentially use the supercharger. And there will be many many ccs 150-350kwh chargers built in the next years. So the only downside is the 3 phase internal charger(wich i believe jag should have as an accessory) still a too expensive car.
CHAdeMO isn't compatible with CCS. They use very different communication methods. That's why there aren't any converter cables. If Jaguar were to instal both it would over complicate the charger and increase the price of the car.
3 phase is definitely something they should have done, but they went with CCS because it is the charging standard that most western manufacturers have adopted.
CHAdeMO is popular right now mostly because of Nissan, but by 2020 CCS cars will greatly outnumber CHAdeMO. Throughout Europe and North America and that is obviously going to lead to a big overhaul of the CCS network on both continents.
It's all about supply and demand.
I could tell that you really like the Jaguar, but your loyalty to Tesla held you back. I believe that older drivers will like the fit and finish of the Jaguar. And will feel more comfortable with an established manufacturer. The interior design along with the standard grill will also push them towards the Jaguar.
The lack of third party access to the supercharger network is deliberate on Teslas part.
Elon Musk is able to build reusable orbital rockets but can't install Chip and Pin into Superchargers🤔
cinema writer then Tesla can figure out how to send other owners an invoice.
NotHandMade -- Tesla took Supercharger technology to SAE first. The SAE told them to shut up, sit down, or get out. So they got out.
redxsage Back in 2011 SAE had developed their own CCS system. A system that is now being improved for 350Kw. I see no reason for not making a car duel compatible, Teslas can plug into just about anything. I also see no reason why SAEs lack of support would stop Tesla from selling access to it's own network.
haha skateboards. but mine's bigger ;) check my videos.
Very good impressions! Thanks for sharing. It seems Jaguar is definitely ahead of all the Germans when it comes to long range electric vehicles. BMW has recently pushed back their _'electrification'_ plans, just as AUDI has done, to some mythical time frame between 2020 and 2025.
The i-Pace is definitely not for me, though I am sure it will appeal to a lot of other people. Especially those who put a higher priority on things like _prestige, tradition, heritage, 'luxury',_ and _fit & finish_ than I do -- good for them!
I am not aware of what production/sales level Jaguar is targeting with this car, though. If the i-Pace is to be anything less than 10% of Jaguar's annual output it will be a very rare sight indeed. If the manufacturing capacity is less than the XJ, then it will be practically non-existent.