I had a similar journey from Baptist/Evangelical to Anglo-Catholic. I'm now a third order Franciscan and ordained deacon in the Continuum . This was a great discussion. Thank you Jonah and Fr. Wesley.
@@jamessheffield4173: Yes. I think the Magna Carta calls it the Ecclesia Anglicana, but we must remember that before the Reformation this was not a denomination but a geographical expression, as there was only one Church at that time. This was a way of referring to the members of the Catholic Church who happened to live in England; it was not a separate entity.
@@alhilford2345 Which church? Assyrian, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian, Greek, Armenian, Georgian, Mar Thoma, Old Catholic, Anglican, or the despotism of Rome? They are charging me with innovation, and base their charge on my confession of three hypostases, and blame me for asserting one Goodness, one Power, one Godhead. In this they are not wide of the truth, for I do so assert. Their complaint is that their custom does not accept this, and that Scripture does not agree. What is my reply? I do not consider it fair that the custom which obtains among them should be regarded as a law and rule of orthodoxy. If custom is to be taken in proof of what is right, then it is certainly competent for me to put forward on my side the custom which obtains here. If they reject this, we are clearly not bound to follow them. Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the Word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth.[1] Basil the Great, The Letters, Letter 189 (To Eustathius the Physician).
This seems to be a more friendly version of Anglo Catholics when it comes to Rome. Dialogue would be nice to see as it seems to be only Vatican I that separates us
57:00 "no distinction between scripture and tradition" "scripture is a tradition of the church" These statements are frankly heresy. Erasing the distinction between tradition and divine revelation can only be accomplished by saying that tradition essentially *is* divine revelation. And so, whoever gets to select what tradition is authoritative, out of the massive pool of various traditions, is the one who has the power to write new revelation and to mold it in his image. There admittedly is confusion and ambiguity over the concept of Sola Scriptura in Protestant circles, while Rome and these Anglicans do have clarity. But they believe in Sola Ecclesia. Their ecclesiastical structure is what, alone, has ultimate authority. They just have exchanged the authority and power of scripture for the authority and power of men.
I don't know why he wants to remain Anglo Catholic and still participate in catholic mass and confessions. He has to drop the idea of his ordination being valid when the Catholic church says it isn't. Looks like he wants to have his cake and and eat it.
Actually, the APA have Polish National Old Catholic orders on top of Anglican ones, so I am pretty sure Rome accepts them even if it has given no formal statement (and they are on track to full communion with the Union of Scranton, which is entirely recognized by Rome). In truth, this is the only Protestant church that I know of that Rome can say has valid orders, and in one sense it makes them a sort of ambassador and point to dialogue with Rome and other Apostolic Churches.
I had a similar journey from Baptist/Evangelical to Anglo-Catholic. I'm now a third order Franciscan and ordained deacon in the Continuum . This was a great discussion. Thank you Jonah and Fr. Wesley.
Thanks for this! I conversation with Bishop Ackerman would be great too!
I'd love that!
Magna Carta 1215 A.D. the English Church is to be free and to have all its rights fully and its liberties entirely.
In 1215 the only Christian church in England was the Catholic Church.
@@alhilford2345 Funny the Magna Carta calls it the English Church, but it's still Anglo-Catholic/ Blessings.
@@jamessheffield4173:
Yes.
I think the Magna Carta calls it the Ecclesia Anglicana, but we must remember that before the Reformation this was not a denomination but a geographical expression, as there was only one Church at that time.
This was a way of referring to the members of the Catholic Church who happened to live in England; it was not a separate entity.
@@alhilford2345 Which church? Assyrian, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian, Greek, Armenian, Georgian, Mar Thoma, Old Catholic, Anglican, or the despotism of Rome? They are charging me with innovation, and base their charge on my confession of three hypostases, and blame me for asserting one Goodness, one Power, one Godhead. In this they are not wide of the truth, for I do so assert. Their complaint is that their custom does not accept this, and that Scripture does not agree. What is my reply? I do not consider it fair that the custom which obtains among them should be regarded as a law and rule of orthodoxy. If custom is to be taken in proof of what is right, then it is certainly competent for me to put forward on my side the custom which obtains here. If they reject this, we are clearly not bound to follow them. Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the Word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth.[1] Basil the Great, The Letters, Letter 189 (To Eustathius the Physician).
@@jamessheffield4173:
Basil the Great died in 379 AD
He wasn't around for the Magna Carta.
47:20 - 47:45 is great
This seems to be a more friendly version of Anglo Catholics when it comes to Rome. Dialogue would be nice to see as it seems to be only Vatican I that separates us
Woah, he mentioned David Bazan!
57:00
"no distinction between scripture and tradition"
"scripture is a tradition of the church"
These statements are frankly heresy. Erasing the distinction between tradition and divine revelation can only be accomplished by saying that tradition essentially *is* divine revelation.
And so, whoever gets to select what tradition is authoritative, out of the massive pool of various traditions, is the one who has the power to write new revelation and to mold it in his image.
There admittedly is confusion and ambiguity over the concept of Sola Scriptura in Protestant circles, while Rome and these Anglicans do have clarity. But they believe in Sola Ecclesia. Their ecclesiastical structure is what, alone, has ultimate authority. They just have exchanged the authority and power of scripture for the authority and power of men.
I don't know why he wants to remain Anglo Catholic and still participate in catholic mass and confessions. He has to drop the idea of his ordination being valid when the Catholic church says it isn't. Looks like he wants to have his cake and and eat it.
Everyone is on their own journey. Wait until he sees all his work thrown out, with contempt, by the woman priest who succeeds him.
He’s in the Anglican Province of America. They don’t ordain women.
Actually, the APA have Polish National Old Catholic orders on top of Anglican ones, so I am pretty sure Rome accepts them even if it has given no formal statement (and they are on track to full communion with the Union of Scranton, which is entirely recognized by Rome). In truth, this is the only Protestant church that I know of that Rome can say has valid orders, and in one sense it makes them a sort of ambassador and point to dialogue with Rome and other Apostolic Churches.
Gross
144