I have been attending an orthodox church for nearly 4 mos. Icons , and praying for the departed are my only push back. Everything else has been the best way to describe it as a "God send". Having to unpack nearly 40 yrs of western christendom out of my spiritual DNA has been very challenging. It has been a journey that has led me to various denominational movements (charismatic to calvinistic etc) and now orthodoxy of which I have read and watched many many resources to help capture the entirety of the orthodox faith, which has been very helpful and this channel is one of them. Thank you
I’m exploring orthodoxy and have had your same journey. Charismatic to Calvinism and now to exploring orthodoxy. May I ask what issue you have with praying for the departed?
An other use of iconography in the orthodox churches and I speak not only about the iconostasis but mostly around the walls and in the tholos (dome) was to "narrate" by images the christians the things they couldn't read, because untill 19th century most were iliterate or poorly educated or having no means to buy books. So it was both educative and created feelings to the attendants.
But, also, the express the reality that we are surrounded by saints and angels when we are in the church buildings and participating in worship services. ☦📿☦
I just went back and listened to Fr. Jesse who begins to somewhat touch on that subject after the 3mn mark. As he speaks of those surrounding him.. I understand that. Not to the depth that a more spiritual person might feel, but .. well, i ask you to listen again.☦☦
This is one of the explanations of icons that really helped me in my ongoing conversion peocess to Orthodoxy from a Protestant background. Thank you Fr. Jesse!
I hope this video helps these poor confused (and often hateful) people. People that claim this is idolatry 1. Don’t know what Christian (biblical) worship is. And 2. Don’t know the difference between what the temple that God commanded his people to make looked like, and what a graven image is. 3. They don’t really know what an icon is because they’ve cut themselves off from the church now for centuries.
@@traviswilson36 lol, I’ve literally had dozens of Protestants and a few Catholics come to my channel to casually tell me that I would burn in hell for all eternity for being Orthodox. I’m sure there are no shortage of hostile Orthodox people, but we most certainly do not have a corner on the market for hostile online responding. You have to have an impressive level of delusion to be able to ignore that.
You know these videos are getting more reach then usual due to the typical agruements against icons. You're plantings seeds and putting stones in shoes. Keep up the good work.
☦🎶☦"No one could describe the Word of the Father, but, when He took flesh from Thee, O, Theotokos, He accepted to be described, and restored the fallen image to its former place, by uniting it to Divine Beauty. We accept, we accept and proclaim our salvation in word and images!".☦🎵☦ Hymn from the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy. (The Sunday that celebrates the restoration of icons into the churches..the first Sunday of Great Lent.) ALSO, the TRUE, TRUE, TRUE story of the icon of HIS face that Our Lord, Jesus Christ, sent to Prince Abgar/Abgarus of Edessa,, is an important story. The Icon Not Made with Hands is celebrated on August 16th. I first read about it in the Prologue of Ohrid, a monumental work by St. Nicholai Velimirovich, St. Nicholai of Zicha. (Who was a Serbian priest prisoner in Dacha..who later taught at an Orthodox seminary/monastery on the East Coast..He had finished this work before WWII.)
if we are clay made in god's image, then surely you can have wood and paint that is made in god's image. I don't understand how anyone can contend with this point.
It's usually evangelical Protestants who just read in Exodus 20:3-6 that God forbids making graven images for the purpose of idolatry but they don't go on to read, just 5 chapters later, that God does not forbid the making of graven images since he commands that statues and other graven images be carved for religious purposes
You might want to go to an Orthodox website and do some investigating.. so much there. I love the story of Prince Abgar/Abgarus of Edessa and the Icon not made with Hands, which the Lord Himself made of His Own Face miraculously and sent to Prince Abgar.. Feast day is August, 16. The Prologue of Orhid tells the story quite beautifully.
Genuine question here. What does Being “drawn in to something greater” mean? By images drawing into some meditation or prayer? I wouldn’t care to have images of other people but to try to depict only one nature of Christ is foolish isn’t it? The same GOD who said not to represent Him with images became incarnate. Why don’t we see the Old Testement saints painting or making images of the coming Servant of GOD who would suffer for their sins and redeem all mankind from their sin? The only visible images ordained by Christ to strengthen our faith are the sacraments. We can see and touch and taste, why not rest satisfied that? Why change your glory to an ox that eats grass so to speak? Genuine questions, I’m not orthodox
OT faith of the Israelites was only shadows of the things to come (Hebrews 10, 1)... therefore... they were prohibited to depict anything... while in the same verse for NT Christianity is said that we have "image of the things". Icon is a Greek word for image. By having "image of the things" we thus create images (icons).
I have to raise the question then; are tattoos okay? Reasoning: We are the temple of the Holy Ghost. And a tattoo would be the equivalent of placing decorations on/in the church.
I am no authority on the matter, but let me give you my two cents. Purposefully altering your body in a permanent manner is a statement that what you were given by God was not good enough.
My rebuttal would be. If I take images of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God (16th chapel), and the Cross and tattoo it on my body; am I not like the church? The church was perfect before images of heavenly things were placed inside and outside of them. The place of worship, the temple is a testament to Gods grace and glory. You see I fail to see the difference.
@@YourStylesGeneric321 Exodus 20:4 Kjv 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in HEAVEN ABOVE, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. graven image noun : an object of worship carved usually from wood or stone : And does the church not make wood or stone Jesus Christ of Nazareth? Are they not in church? Or the cross? One could also argue that glass is a stone for the stained glass windows. Again I’m not saying I’m right. I am just asking for possible clarification from fellow followers.
Respectfully agree to disagree but I'm just happy you're out spreading the God News. That's all that matters and I can respect that there are going to be different ways to worship in a religion of millions.
In the previous video, you had commended an Olympiad for leaving his medal at an icon, but in this video you say that icon worship is leaving sacrifices at an altar. I am not calling hypocrisy, I am confused how these two do not contradict each other. I’d like to further understand the veneration of the saints and why this is good.
@acekoala457 made a good point. The reason why pagans left sacrifices and offerings at idols is because they believed the statue or image was literally a body for the entity. The icon is not a body for the saint nor is it a part of the saint. The medal was left there because it's an acknowledgement of the prayers of the saint TO GOD. God is the ultimate cause, not the saint. A pagan would believe that the entity granted the wish under its own power. Also, it's not like the saint will come down and claim the medal for him or herself. Pagans believed that the entity will actually eat or claim the offering.
The eating aspect of sacrifice which David alluded to in his comment implies that for pagans, feeding the idol increased the body of the spirit which indwelt it. You were giving it life. This exactly what the OT prophets mock and criticize. Image veneration in Christianity is about acknowledging and sharing in the glory of Christ Who is depicted (or the person in communion with Him who is depicted). When objects are set before images, the correct way to understand it is that one is acknowledging or alternating asking for blessing in relation to the object. As the remarkable passage 1 Samuel 6 shows w/ the mice and the tumors, placing a votive before a holy image has no connection to pagan idol worship. OT/Orthodox votives visually represent specific prayer. No giving sustenance to an image as though it's alive.
For the second reason why you have icons. You say that we need these icons to enter the “spirit realm”. What about Mathew 6:5-6? It’s not necessary to have all these things to feel the presence of the Lord. (My opinion of course😊). Be blessed!
Interestingly enough... all churches that are 2000 years old: EO, RC, OO use icons. It is only Protestants and Muslims who are Iconoclastic heretics. Why?
What is the first thing you think of when you ponder the nature of God. He is omniscient and omnipresent. Jesus is Fully God and Fully man. I'll Give you a minute.
Yes people are true icons of God, but we don't use people as icons in the way that EO and RC Christians use icons. This line of argument doesn't really aid the discussion because it's an irrelevant point.
But isn’t our participation in the image of God what grounds the proper treatment of humans? If so, this doesn’t seem tangential. Wouldn’t a legitimate image of God (the incarnate Christ) therefore need to be treated with extra respect?
Because we are to greet each other with a Holy Kiss. And we cannot Honor the Saints more than God has already Honored them, with a place at the Heavenly Liturgy.
Worship is generally connected with sacrifices (serving a meal to someone ritually in a way that acknowledges them as deity and attempts to give them life). Veneration is action which acknowledges the honorable status of someone or something. This doesn’t have to include any of the aspects of sacrifice listed above.
Very well explained, one question to the Father do you allow the vaxed to enter your church and light a candle and even more importantly do you allow them to receive Holly Comunion?
Hi TruthSeeker. So. I am trying to understand what you’re meaning by ‘vaxed’ - as in vaccinated… or perhaps the word you had typed was originally vexed and your phone changed it…. Or a typo. But, regardless. Everyone is welcome to enter into the Temple, light a candle, and participate in the lifecycle of the parish - providing they maintain good and proper decorum. But the chalice is ‘closed’ to all non Orthodox Christians and is only open to Orthodox Christians who have prepared themselves through prayer, fasting, and the discipline of Holy Communion. So, unless you are Orthodox, you may not receive the Eucharist. Hope you are well. Be encouraged. Lovingly, Lee.
With all due respect, this still doesn’t explain why those in the Orthodox faith are condemned for not bowing down and kissing these icons with affection; according to Orthodoxy, they are condemned. This is not the Gospel. It’s interesting that these sorts of things aren’t addressed here; not to mention the ritual condemning /cursing of those outside the Orthodox faith (Catholics, Protestants, Orientals and Coptics even). Heaven forbid we bring up reformed theology (which was a rescuing of the Scriptures/Christian faith from heresy and ecclesiastical corruption). “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” Forced affection of carved images that are merely earthly materials is wrong. This is nothing more than idolatry. By the way, just because orthodox means “correct”, doesn’t mean it actually is.
They are “condemned” because they are denying the physical reality of the incarnation, Protestant iconoclasts do this unknowingly as well, icons represent the reality of the incarnation through the material world that Christ entered into. When Christ reconciled all things to himself he sanctified matter, and given that icons represent that reality it is an affront to God and the reality of Christ’s entrance into the physical material world to reject that.
Hi Chance. Thank you for sharing your perspective respectfully. First rule of Orthodoxy, there is no coercion. So your statement where you use the word ‘forcing’ - violates that principle. Most people I have encountered in Holy Orthodoxy that are ‘condemning and cursing folks outside of Orthodox’ as you state, generally are recent converts from staunchly Reformed camps where this practice is part of the ethos. I guess we all have a lot to learn and grow. In the summer, I encountered a vitriolic Evangelical who claimed to be a pastor while visiting Greece. He was really abrasive and spoke from a Reformed bent. He kept yelling at me ‘that we agree to disagree’ as we were riding a ferry from Delos back to Mykonos. I softly replied, ‘we do not have an agreement.’ My question to him that I asked after learning he had visited a monastery I was visiting in a couple of days… ‘How did the monastery visit help to inform your Christian faith? ‘ Just because there’s not an agreement, doesn’t mean there is condemnation. Be encouraged. As your soul prospers…. lovingly, Lee.
@@realmccoy124I believe by "forced", Chance is referring to the fact that the seventh ecumenical council declared that anyone who does not participate in icon veneration and does not do so with affection for the image is "anathema" (i.e., damned). This would assert that if one does not bow to images and kiss them, he is excommunicated and destined for hell (as he is anathema). Quote: "If anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord and his saints, let him be anathema." Also: "If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema."
@@Caralazathe seventh council is about those in the Church (as are all the councils) Protestants are ignorant of and have never been members of the Church.
Yeah, even a pre-schooler can know the difference between sacred art and idolatry and know that God commanded both His ark as well as His temple to be adorned with the former. «Twist it any way you want, bottom line, you're [an iconoclast, that is, a heretic of the most stupid kind that obviously act pretentious towards people not as dumb as you]».
All Orthodox churches are sooo beautiful. Love from Serbia ☦️🙏. God Bless you
I have been attending an orthodox church for nearly 4 mos. Icons , and praying for the departed are my only push back. Everything else has been the best way to describe it as a "God send". Having to unpack nearly 40 yrs of western christendom out of my spiritual DNA has been very challenging. It has been a journey that has led me to various denominational movements (charismatic to calvinistic etc) and now orthodoxy of which I have read and watched many many resources to help capture the entirety of the orthodox faith, which has been very helpful and this channel is one of them. Thank you
If you really want to be on the path of Jesus and what he preached then you should accept Islam
I’m exploring orthodoxy and have had your same journey. Charismatic to Calvinism and now to exploring orthodoxy. May I ask what issue you have with praying for the departed?
@@AnonAmong. Absolutely not.
Praying for the departed gives one hope for family members outside the Church. I don’t see why that would bother anyone.
@@AnonAmong NO
An other use of iconography in the orthodox churches and I speak not only about the iconostasis but mostly around the walls and in the tholos (dome) was to "narrate" by images the christians the things they couldn't read, because untill 19th century most were iliterate or poorly educated or having no means to buy books. So it was both educative and created feelings to the attendants.
America is on a slow return to Illiteracy. Maybe it is God's punishment for trusting in our own understanding.
But, also, the express the reality that we are surrounded by saints and angels when we are in the church buildings and participating in worship services.
☦📿☦
@@lindaphillips4646 This kind of a poetic approach, but still nice and heartwarming.
I just went back and listened to Fr. Jesse who begins to somewhat touch on that subject after the 3mn mark.
As he speaks of those surrounding him..
I understand that. Not to the depth that a more spiritual person might feel, but .. well, i ask you to listen again.☦☦
This is one of the explanations of icons that really helped me in my ongoing conversion peocess to Orthodoxy from a Protestant background. Thank you Fr. Jesse!
That Church is so beautiful ❤
Such a beautiful explanation. Thank you, sir.
I hope this video helps these poor confused (and often hateful) people. People that claim this is idolatry 1. Don’t know what Christian (biblical) worship is. And 2. Don’t know the difference between what the temple that God commanded his people to make looked like, and what a graven image is. 3. They don’t really know what an icon is because they’ve cut themselves off from the church now for centuries.
The online orthodox community is hateful.
@@traviswilson36 lol, I’ve literally had dozens of Protestants and a few Catholics come to my channel to casually tell me that I would burn in hell for all eternity for being Orthodox. I’m sure there are no shortage of hostile Orthodox people, but we most certainly do not have a corner on the market for hostile online responding. You have to have an impressive level of delusion to be able to ignore that.
@@traviswilson36we gotta fix that but in real life orthodox are good. Most of the online are fake who try to make orthodox look bad
@@Kauahdhdhdlol yeah right...
@@WolvesBaseballNine go a Orthodox Church and you’ll see that they good people
You know these videos are getting more reach then usual due to the typical agruements against icons.
You're plantings seeds and putting stones in shoes. Keep up the good work.
☦🎶☦"No one could describe the Word of the Father, but, when He took flesh from Thee, O, Theotokos, He accepted to be described, and restored the fallen image to its former place, by uniting it to Divine Beauty. We accept, we accept and proclaim our salvation in word and images!".☦🎵☦
Hymn from the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy. (The Sunday that celebrates the restoration of icons into the churches..the first Sunday of Great Lent.)
ALSO, the TRUE, TRUE, TRUE story of the icon of HIS face that Our Lord, Jesus Christ, sent to Prince Abgar/Abgarus of Edessa,, is an important story. The Icon Not Made with Hands is celebrated on August 16th.
I first read about it in the Prologue of Ohrid, a monumental work by St. Nicholai Velimirovich, St. Nicholai of Zicha. (Who was a Serbian priest prisoner in Dacha..who later taught at an Orthodox seminary/monastery on the East Coast..He had finished this work before WWII.)
Great video ☦️
So beautiful 🙏🙏🙏
any plans to make these available in podcast format on spotify or the like? that would be amazing!
I love the idea! Thank you for your suggestion. I’ll work on this in this new year. God bless!
awesome! it would be much appreciated@@RootsofOrthodoxy
Thank you!
We are not alone, God is with us ☦️🙏💪
❤🔥🔥❄😍🖼️✌👩❤👨💪🕊🙏✝CHRIST IS BORN ☦️🙏💒🌟👨👩👧👦☃🫶🎄🥇⛸️🚨🙌💯❤
if we are clay made in god's image, then surely you can have wood and paint that is made in god's image. I don't understand how anyone can contend with this point.
It's usually evangelical Protestants who just read in Exodus 20:3-6 that God forbids making graven images for the purpose of idolatry but they don't go on to read, just 5 chapters later, that God does not forbid the making of graven images since he commands that statues and other graven images be carved for religious purposes
Anyone have articles about the history of iconic how it starts when it starts? Please
It started in the Old Testament.
You might want to go to an Orthodox website and do some investigating.. so much there.
I love the story of Prince Abgar/Abgarus of Edessa and the Icon not made with Hands, which the Lord Himself made of His Own Face miraculously and sent to Prince Abgar..
Feast day is August, 16.
The Prologue of Orhid tells the story quite beautifully.
ua-cam.com/video/jdwr7jGUNw0/v-deo.html
Genuine question here.
What does Being “drawn in to something greater” mean? By images drawing into some meditation or prayer? I wouldn’t care to have images of other people but to try to depict only one nature of Christ is foolish isn’t it? The same GOD who said not to represent Him with images became incarnate. Why don’t we see the Old Testement saints painting or making images of the coming Servant of GOD who would suffer for their sins and redeem all mankind from their sin? The only visible images ordained by Christ to strengthen our faith are the sacraments. We can see and touch and taste, why not rest satisfied that? Why change your glory to an ox that eats grass so to speak? Genuine questions, I’m not orthodox
OT faith of the Israelites was only shadows of the things to come (Hebrews 10, 1)... therefore... they were prohibited to depict anything... while in the same verse for NT Christianity is said that we have "image of the things". Icon is a Greek word for image. By having "image of the things" we thus create images (icons).
I have to raise the question then; are tattoos okay?
Reasoning: We are the temple of the Holy Ghost. And a tattoo would be the equivalent of placing decorations on/in the church.
I am no authority on the matter, but let me give you my two cents. Purposefully altering your body in a permanent manner is a statement that what you were given by God was not good enough.
My rebuttal would be. If I take images of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God (16th chapel), and the Cross and tattoo it on my body; am I not like the church? The church was perfect before images of heavenly things were placed inside and outside of them. The place of worship, the temple is a testament to Gods grace and glory.
You see I fail to see the difference.
@@naturescritter4691 Well then read Leviticus 19:28 if you fail to see the difference.
The Holy Spirit isn’t a ghost.
@@YourStylesGeneric321
Exodus 20:4
Kjv
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in HEAVEN ABOVE, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
graven image
noun
: an object of worship carved usually from wood or stone :
And does the church not make wood or stone Jesus Christ of Nazareth? Are they not in church? Or the cross? One could also argue that glass is a stone for the stained glass windows.
Again I’m not saying I’m right. I am just asking for possible clarification from fellow followers.
Respectfully agree to disagree but I'm just happy you're out spreading the God News. That's all that matters and I can respect that there are going to be different ways to worship in a religion of millions.
If you are against icons, then you’re a heretic. Read the seventh ecumenical council.
Yes, there are different ways of worship within Eastern Orthodox Church... western rite is different from eastern one.
In the previous video, you had commended an Olympiad for leaving his medal at an icon, but in this video you say that icon worship is leaving sacrifices at an altar. I am not calling hypocrisy, I am confused how these two do not contradict each other. I’d like to further understand the veneration of the saints and why this is good.
If it was his to sacrifice it would be a sacrifice.
Leaving his medal was giving full credit to God. Just like Iconography gives full credit to God.
@acekoala457 made a good point. The reason why pagans left sacrifices and offerings at idols is because they believed the statue or image was literally a body for the entity. The icon is not a body for the saint nor is it a part of the saint. The medal was left there because it's an acknowledgement of the prayers of the saint TO GOD. God is the ultimate cause, not the saint. A pagan would believe that the entity granted the wish under its own power.
Also, it's not like the saint will come down and claim the medal for him or herself. Pagans believed that the entity will actually eat or claim the offering.
The eating aspect of sacrifice which David alluded to in his comment implies that for pagans, feeding the idol increased the body of the spirit which indwelt it. You were giving it life. This exactly what the OT prophets mock and criticize.
Image veneration in Christianity is about acknowledging and sharing in the glory of Christ Who is depicted (or the person in communion with Him who is depicted).
When objects are set before images, the correct way to understand it is that one is acknowledging or alternating asking for blessing in relation to the object. As the remarkable passage 1 Samuel 6 shows w/ the mice and the tumors, placing a votive before a holy image has no connection to pagan idol worship. OT/Orthodox votives visually represent specific prayer. No giving sustenance to an image as though it's alive.
For the second reason why you have icons. You say that we need these icons to enter the “spirit realm”. What about Mathew 6:5-6? It’s not necessary to have all these things to feel the presence of the Lord. (My opinion of course😊). Be blessed!
Interestingly enough... all churches that are 2000 years old: EO, RC, OO use icons. It is only Protestants and Muslims who are Iconoclastic heretics. Why?
What is the first thing you think of when you ponder the nature of God. He is omniscient and omnipresent. Jesus is Fully God and Fully man. I'll Give you a minute.
(Col 1,15) "HE IS THE IMAGE (Greek: ICON) of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."
Yes people are true icons of God, but we don't use people as icons in the way that EO and RC Christians use icons. This line of argument doesn't really aid the discussion because it's an irrelevant point.
But isn’t our participation in the image of God what grounds the proper treatment of humans? If so, this doesn’t seem tangential. Wouldn’t a legitimate image of God (the incarnate Christ) therefore need to be treated with extra respect?
Love Icons but just wondering why people kiss them? There seems to be a fine line between veneration and worship?
Because we are to greet each other with a Holy Kiss.
And we cannot Honor the Saints more than God has already Honored them, with a place at the Heavenly Liturgy.
@@acekoala457 Thank you. That makes sense :)
«Thete seems to be a fine line between veneration and workship?» as if a kiss was a sign of workship and not of affection.
Worship is generally connected with sacrifices (serving a meal to someone ritually in a way that acknowledges them as deity and attempts to give them life).
Veneration is action which acknowledges the honorable status of someone or something. This doesn’t have to include any of the aspects of sacrifice listed above.
Very well explained, one question to the Father do you allow the vaxed to enter your church and light a candle and even more importantly do you allow them to receive Holly Comunion?
What lmao
Hi TruthSeeker. So. I am trying to understand what you’re meaning by ‘vaxed’ - as in vaccinated… or perhaps the word you had typed was originally vexed and your phone changed it…. Or a typo.
But, regardless. Everyone is welcome to enter into the Temple, light a candle, and participate in the lifecycle of the parish - providing they maintain good and proper decorum. But the chalice is ‘closed’ to all non Orthodox Christians and is only open to Orthodox Christians who have prepared themselves through prayer, fasting, and the discipline of Holy Communion.
So, unless you are Orthodox, you may not receive the Eucharist.
Hope you are well. Be encouraged. Lovingly, Lee.
With all due respect, this still doesn’t explain why those in the Orthodox faith are condemned for not bowing down and kissing these icons with affection; according to Orthodoxy, they are condemned. This is not the Gospel.
It’s interesting that these sorts of things aren’t addressed here; not to mention the ritual condemning /cursing of those outside the Orthodox faith (Catholics, Protestants, Orientals and Coptics even). Heaven forbid we bring up reformed theology (which was a rescuing of the Scriptures/Christian faith from heresy and ecclesiastical corruption).
“Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom”
Forced affection of carved images that are merely earthly materials is wrong. This is nothing more than idolatry.
By the way, just because orthodox means “correct”, doesn’t mean it actually is.
Would an Israelite who refused to participate in a procession with the Ark of the Covenant be condemned?
They are “condemned” because they are denying the physical reality of the incarnation, Protestant iconoclasts do this unknowingly as well, icons represent the reality of the incarnation through the material world that Christ entered into. When Christ reconciled all things to himself he sanctified matter, and given that icons represent that reality it is an affront to God and the reality of Christ’s entrance into the physical material world to reject that.
Hi Chance. Thank you for sharing your perspective respectfully. First rule of Orthodoxy, there is no coercion. So your statement where you use the word ‘forcing’ - violates that principle.
Most people I have encountered in Holy Orthodoxy that are ‘condemning and cursing folks outside of Orthodox’ as you state, generally are recent converts from staunchly Reformed camps where this practice is part of the ethos. I guess we all have a lot to learn and grow.
In the summer, I encountered a vitriolic Evangelical who claimed to be a pastor while visiting Greece. He was really abrasive and spoke from a Reformed bent. He kept yelling at me ‘that we agree to disagree’ as we were riding a ferry from Delos back to Mykonos. I softly replied, ‘we do not have an agreement.’ My question to him that I asked after learning he had visited a monastery I was visiting in a couple of days… ‘How did the monastery visit help to inform your Christian faith? ‘
Just because there’s not an agreement, doesn’t mean there is condemnation.
Be encouraged. As your soul prospers…. lovingly, Lee.
@@realmccoy124I believe by "forced", Chance is referring to the fact that the seventh ecumenical council declared that anyone who does not participate in icon veneration and does not do so with affection for the image is "anathema" (i.e., damned). This would assert that if one does not bow to images and kiss them, he is excommunicated and destined for hell (as he is anathema).
Quote: "If anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord and his saints, let him be anathema."
Also:
"If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema."
@@Caralazathe seventh council is about those in the Church (as are all the councils) Protestants are ignorant of and have never been members of the Church.
👎
The answer given is like that of a pre-schooler. Twist it any way you want, bottom line, you're idolaters.
Then so be it. Happy new year Scott.
God bless you, friend. I hope you have a Happy New Year! 😄☦️
Yeah, even a pre-schooler can know the difference between sacred art and idolatry and know that God commanded both His ark as well as His temple to be adorned with the former. «Twist it any way you want, bottom line, you're [an iconoclast, that is, a heretic of the most stupid kind that obviously act pretentious towards people not as dumb as you]».
@@briandunleamusic Right on. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Happy Epiphany, Brian.
@@noahworley4884 May God bless you and keep you, Noah. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Happy Epiphany, friend.