Sony a7Sii pricing: amzn.to/2xsW3Jh www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186034-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_alpha_a7sii_mirrorless_digital.html/BI/6499/KBID/7145 Sony FS5 pricing: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185424-REG/sony_pxw_fs5_xdcam_super_35.html/BI/6499/KBID/7145
Dave Dugdale Hi Dave, 8 bit is better then 10 bit with noise because of aliasing on the A2D converter. jaunty-electronics.com/blog/2013/03/12-bit-vs-8-bit-whats-the-difference/ Great video.
Thanks for doing this, Dave! When we did our GH4 8-bit (internal) vs 10-bit (external) none of us could see any differences, even heavily graded, even in situations manufactured to highlight the difference. But your examples very clearly show the value of those high-end cameras we always dream of... Oh and screw those 4 people who gave you a thumbs down already. WTH is their problem?
Great work Dave! Very brave of you to take on a question like this and nicely done! The white balance test was interesting and it did look like the corrected clips had a little bit of extra magenta in your jacket relative to the clips with the correct white balance, but that was the case with both the FS5 and the A7RII. In my tests, I've found similar things: with 10-bit 4:2:2 color out of my GH4 to the Shogun, banding in the skies is the only thing with which I've found a difference so far. Not that there aren't other things, I just haven't come across them yet. Thanks again!
I really appreciate you doing all of these tests! I know it's a lot of work to do these, so I just wanted to let you know. A lot of us learn more than you probably think from your videos so thank you for that! 🙏
I've watched your videos since I was a teenager. I'm 23, currently in my second year of University. You have no idea how helpful the content you produce is. You've made the learning process understandable and informative for nearly every camera I've used.
Hi Dave! The color shifting (green to blue) on the Canon C100 is only in C-Log mode. I have a lot of problems with it when first time edit the wedding, shooted at the 5DM3 and C100. Now I shooting on the C100 only in WideDR gamma mode.
Canon errs on the side of their own ideas for skin tone people go on about, and that choice has an associated cost. Dave, you have that fancy qualifier tool in Resolve to fix the skin! :-D
Really informative video Dave! Thank you for doing this. I was surprised at how sharp and detailed FS5 1080p footage was. I wish you would have done some 4K tests on the FS5 as well :) Just to see how the noise is handled in Slog-x profiles and higher res. -Dmitry.
Thanks for detailed and well thought out tests Dave I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to make these types of videos. Can't wait for your A7S II course! Consider mine pre-ordered. Keep up the great work!
It would really be interesting to see the a6300 compared to the FS5 in a similar test. The "6k" down sampled to 4K on the a6300 compared to to the FS5 is kinda intriguing especially since the price points are so drastically different.
Someone else might have already said this - and if so I apologize: The whole thing with the 'Hey, using this little Sony at 4k underexposed for some reason doesn't give me noise problems' has to do with 'Super-sampling' (a big deal in the video game world). When you downscale a 4k image which contains the inherent sensor noise (and the grains of that noise at a pixel size relative to the sensor pixel count) to the lower 1080 HD resolution you will (in effect) auto de-noise the resulting video by shrinking the pixel size of the noise grains. This happens to such an extent (4x smaller and then smoothed across the remaining pixels) that they are in many cases not visible in the down scaled pixel data. Along with that happening, a few other happy advantages occur in terms of image sharpness and anti aliasing as well. Basically, Super-sampling is a great thing to do in many many instances from a visual fidelity standpoint.
I sit here at 2:49PM, on July 12th, 2020 eating an egg, potato, caramelized onions, and turkey-bacon breakfast and reading your comment as I chew, just nodding my head saying, “mmhmm, Yep, sounds legit,” but really not knowing what you are talking about. Lolz.
Dave - where you see the difference in LOG between 10-bit and 8 bit is in the -3 to -4 where the log curve comes in from a flat curve to a linear curve. That's why people over expose 1 or 2 stops to move that shadow information to the linear part of the curve - The bits that are getting written on that flat curve are very small in 8-bit. - Under exposing is something different. When you film at a correct exposure the light needed to capture the detail in the shadows is captured - when you under expose there is not enough light hitting the sensor for the detail and then lifting in post is creating artificial light. it is the equivalent of amplifying a low audio signal - yes, you can turn it up and hear the audio, but you bring up the noise floor with it. So a test of the difference from a colorist is going to be in the -3 - 4 stops . 8-bit will fall apart and 10 or 12 bit will retain that detail.
These are great tests you've done Dave. They tell a lot about the cameras and the technicality we seem to be too obsessed with. Keep it up! You would get 2 thumbs up from me if this weren't a UA-cam viewing!
Great comparison. I recently shot a project on a rented FS5. I liked the image i got from it apart from the low light shots I did. I haven't decided if I will purchase the camera or not. What would be the benefits to getting an FS5 instead of the a7sii or vice versa?
Good test, Dave! Banding is a tough test to show on You tube because of the compression but you know what you are talking about so I'll take your word for it. Cheers.
great video. but I got few questions. 1. when you shot in 4k on the a7Rii - the footage you showed was rendered down to 1080? or left at 4k? 2. what does the 10bit fs5 look like compared at 4k, next to the a7rii at 8bit 4k?
I know it takes a lot of time to make theses videos and I am sure that everybody appreciates these types of video’s. Thank you for your time and keep up the excellent work.
Hey Dave! Great review. Quick question, are you seeing a big difference between recording internally versus recording through the Atomos with the a7r/a7s in 4K?
Doug, as usual, this is another phenomenal video. In regards to the noise in RAW (sensor data without compression): when recording RAW, the footage is not processed by the camera's onboard Digital Signal Processor (DSP) which handles the noise. Hence the noise reduction must be applied during edit.
Super helpful! I shoot with the FS5 primarily now over my A7S + Shogun for 4k. In the right conditions, aka majority of my commercial shoots where I am working with controlled light, it’s totally fine. For anyone who relies heavily on natural light, the A7S series is surely a godsend. Other than the obvious differences that one is a video camcorder and the other is a photo camera that does video, *rigging* the A7/S series can be a pain point, especially if and when you rely on getting the shot quickly. I still love our A7S but I made it a point that you have to essentially “Frankenstein” it via the XLR audio capabilities, extended battery, external monitor/recorder along with a cage and rails to make it all work. But coming back to your video, you did an excellent job illustrating the quality of both cameras and in most cases, it’s in the eye of the beholder that matters [you clearly showed this by showing zoomed-in examples for those who are watching via phones/tablets] Because, what good is shooting in 4K+ if you’re audience is watching on a small screen. :)
Dave -quick question ? How can I set up my a7s2 to be used with the Zacuto EVF pro " the older one " so I can record 4K internal but output a 1080p signal - ? Is it as simple as changing the HDMI output setting in the menu to 1080p instead of 2160p/1080p just want to be able to use the Zacuto EVF to see a picture -and as you know when we output to 4K to a Ninga / shogun the screen goes black - what am I missing ? TK !!
Dave, so great review and right when I need it cause I'm investing in a7s2 and was worried about how really big deference is between mirrorless and proper video cameras. In case of 4K how did you process it? Did you put 4k on 1080 sequence, export it and than made a grading. Or you grade at the same time with downscaling? Thank you.
Great piece Dave. This 8bit vs. 10bit video debate is looking a lot like the still guys lossy vs. lossless RAW debate. Under normal conditions, with a reasonably well exposed file, the differences are minor after normal post-processing. Furthermore, when presented on **highly compressed social media platforms** both files (video and stills) will basically render the same. Thanks ~Chris
Very informative Dave Dugdale thank you for all your time on this. Quick question, when you convert your 4K to 1080, must you actually render out the 4k to 1080 and then bring into a 1080 timeline OR can you simply drop the 4k onto a 1080 timeline, scale to frame size and begin grading? Thanks for the info again.
Dave now you got really hi-end videos about technical stuff that are really informative! You just take the Right theme, and make the "Right in the eye" videos about. You may really be proud of yourself! Just remember to shout a lot of videos for you family and yourself, try not to forget over all technical stuff what is the main purpose of capturing moving pictures - save history (for your family and others) and try not to forget about backups and storing you video archive for future generations. Any way thank you for making a lot of worthy work and sharing it with us! It's super-cool!
Hi Dave. I have the A7S II and I'm experimenting with the S-Log 3 profile. I was wondering if putting the saturation to the max is good for color grading?
Thanks Dave, the combination of your video and comments gave me a lot information! But taking on the issue was key! BTW, I noticed your from my former haunts... Superior and Breckenridge.
super helpful video dave! I am considering buying an A7SII and was concerned with the banding, but you took my fears :D ... now question is, shall i go for the S II or R II :D I am photographer but want to do way more video :D
Awesome! Can you give a sneak peak on your decision? I likely want to order today as I will head to Rocky Mountains on Saturday and want something more compact in addition to my BMCC ;)
don;t listen n he has no idea what he talks,I have sony a7s II and blackmagic pocket which shoots 12bit raw or 10bit prores,you just can;t compare to shitty 8bit log footage from sony, as soon you grade banding and magenta all over.it's simple if 8bit log file is shit.
Very informative. Thanks Dave. Not a lot of people have access to a number of cameras like that, so your comparisons (even with the issues you had - and admitted too) are super valuable - Very impressed with the A7Sii. How about providing us a small selection of unedited footage from the FS5 and A7Sii (maybe the mountain/sky one) for us to see with our own eyes?
Great video as always Dave. I noticed though that you have a new monitor compared to the LG 34UM95-P that won your heart during the monitor shoot out a year and a half ago, or perhaps you have multiple setups on different locations. What are you using now and what are your thoughts on using a curved monitor for mainly editing photos? (Looking in for an upgrade to my 6 year old 23" IPS)
Dear Dave, thank you for this video it will be a milestone! I'm not professional but let me ask you a question, to dawngrade 4k video from my a7s2 to 1080 i need just to start a new proj (finalcut) at 1080 instead 4k? or you need to convert all the footage with other program?
+DSLRguide I think the myth came from earlier 8-bit cameras and such. Like how people say digital cameras have poor dynamic range in comparison to film cameras. This was only true in the beginning. I think the same case stands for 8-bit. P.S LOVE YOUR CHANNEL BRO
+DSLRguide Nice vídeo nice comparative, but dont forget that FS5 do 1080p capturing and down convert in camera. A7sx i dont know how the camera capture de 1080p but It seams it also down convert. Anyone can confirm if A7Sx use down convert in camera like FS5?
+DSLRguide Obviously 8bit holds well when reasonable exposure and low ISO is used but i think the really implication here is the fact that 4k 8bit does well in comparison to 10bit 422 because UHD "4K" HAS DOUBLE THE horizontal and vertical chrominance data (CR,CB) regardless if its sampled at 4.2.0 8bit...I guess high resolution video give more information for video editing software to make estimated guesses when changing RGB color channel and when lifting luminance and chrominance levels.
+Dave Dugdale @davedugdale I still think setting picture profile gamma to "still". (isnt this the one closest to rec709?) . i think its not a flat profile/good contrast + saturated /non-flat colors. When i got the a7s long time ago. I was looking for vids on green screen using a7s. there was none. so i did quick tests on my own. profile "Still" barely had any noise compared to other gammas. all i did was 1 click. no adjustments needed using keylight compared to other profiles. I posted this in a7s facebook group page , but i guess not a lot of people green screen ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dave, I know this a bit off topic but it is something you have experience with. All these great 4k cameras are coming out and most of them are shooting 8bit. Did you like the 14bit capabilities of shooting on the 5dmkiii? Is it still something that is relevant?
Dave- If you would have not downsampled the 4k footage, does it look as noisy at the 10bit 1080 from the FS7? Also, did you try just 1080 8 bit on the a7s? Trying to figure out what the A7sii has less noise.
Thanks for your suggestion and explanation, and I have a question: Does the Sony FS5 give a difference with external screens for recording like Ninja Five? Do you recommend that I sell it and buy another camera with better specifications?
Hey Dave, great video! I just got a 27" 4K IPS 10 bit (8 bit + frc) display, LG 27UD58. In photoshop I enabled the 30 bit display checkbox, but when I open a 4K document and do a diagonal gradient from black to white, i see a lot of diagonal stripes. Do you have any idea what this might happen?
Thanks for putting the time and energy into creating this video. Some good comparisons. A suggestion for any future test would be to put the titles and info for the camera a bit higher up in the frame. If you pause UA-cam to look at the images, the play button, mute, CC, and other options are overplayed right on top of the camera title info. Not a huge issue, but sometimes tricky to read.
For this type of video, might I suggest exporting and uploading to UA-cam in 4K, even though you didn't shoot or edit in 4K. If we then select 4K in our player, UA-cam will handle the video with a higher bitrate meaning we get a much more detailed image even though it's not actual 4K. You probably already knew of this but I might as well suggest it anyway.
+Dave Dugdale You're welcome! I learned this from LinusTechTips, they did a video where they showed a lot about down- and upscaling, and now their workflow is basically: they shoot in 4K, convert to Cineform 1080p to edit with GPU acceleration, and then export in 4K again to get the high bitrate in UA-cam. Also, I read my comment again and I think I might have come over a bit unfriendly, so I just want to add it still was a very informative video! Thanks for doing all the effort!
Great video man! Just the kind of useful exploration of something people talk about all the time but rarely actually test! Quick question, could you do a video on the difference between the A7s II shooting on the shogun vs. internally, and see the differences between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2? Or just say some of the differences you've found between when you use the internal codec on the a7sII vs on the Shogun? Thanks!
Hi Dave, did you ever compare Sony FS5 4k 420 8bit to Sony FS5 HD 422 10bit if downsampling...i´ve no idea what might better if your final resolution is HD
Very informative video. Many thanks for going to all the trouble to test these cameras - inc. the C100. Would like to know how the new Sony A6300 would fare in similar tests?
Dave, one more question if you don't mind. Would this 8bit 4k downsample wizardry only work if you record externally from the uncompressed hdmi output? Thanks alot mate, keep up the good work, love your videos! kind regards Daniel
Great video, +Dave Dugdale so informative! Over what time period did you make it? Listening to how many times you said "and now it's a couple of weeks later, here are some more tests", it looks like this video took at least a couple of months to create.
Dave Dugdale 5 weeks - that's huge! Thanks for all the time and effort you put into your reviews, including this one. You have so much balanced, useful information, all well presented.
Sony a7Sii pricing: amzn.to/2xsW3Jh
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186034-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_alpha_a7sii_mirrorless_digital.html/BI/6499/KBID/7145
Sony FS5 pricing:
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185424-REG/sony_pxw_fs5_xdcam_super_35.html/BI/6499/KBID/7145
Dave Dugdale Hi Dave, 8 bit is better then 10 bit with noise because of aliasing on the A2D converter.
jaunty-electronics.com/blog/2013/03/12-bit-vs-8-bit-whats-the-difference/
Great video.
Thanks for doing this, Dave! When we did our GH4 8-bit (internal) vs 10-bit (external) none of us could see any differences, even heavily graded, even in situations manufactured to highlight the difference. But your examples very clearly show the value of those high-end cameras we always dream of...
Oh and screw those 4 people who gave you a thumbs down already. WTH is their problem?
+Tony & Chelsea Northrup thanks Tony, that means a lot coming from you. You have a ton of technical knowledge on your channel which is awesome!
Hahaha 🤙🏿🤙🏿
Great work Dave! Very brave of you to take on a question like this and nicely done! The white balance test was interesting and it did look like the corrected clips had a little bit of extra magenta in your jacket relative to the clips with the correct white balance, but that was the case with both the FS5 and the A7RII. In my tests, I've found similar things: with 10-bit 4:2:2 color out of my GH4 to the Shogun, banding in the skies is the only thing with which I've found a difference so far. Not that there aren't other things, I just haven't come across them yet. Thanks again!
I really appreciate you doing all of these tests! I know it's a lot of work to do these, so I just wanted to let you know. A lot of us learn more than you probably think from your videos so thank you for that! 🙏
Thanks for the video! Very helpful, and it's amazing too see such a shift in colors in such high end cameras
I love your videos sir! So honest and informative. You definitely inspire me to keep creating content to one day be on the level you're on.
I've watched your videos since I was a teenager. I'm 23, currently in my second year of University. You have no idea how helpful the content you produce is. You've made the learning process understandable and informative for nearly every camera I've used.
Wow, thanks for saying that! Much appreciated.
Hi Dave! The color shifting (green to blue) on the Canon C100 is only in C-Log mode. I have a lot of problems with it when first time edit the wedding, shooted at the 5DM3 and C100. Now I shooting on the C100 only in WideDR gamma mode.
Interesting, I have not heard that before, thanks for sharing!
Canon errs on the side of their own ideas for skin tone people go on about, and that choice has an associated cost. Dave, you have that fancy qualifier tool in Resolve to fix the skin! :-D
great video Dave! just two days ago me and a friend of mine were talking about this 8bit vs 10bit and this video came in the right time!! good job!
Usually I don't care to get super technical with cameras, but this was so good to see! I love the in depth comparisons.
Great video Dave. Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison. It's exactly the test I've been hoping to see for a while.
Really excellent work Dave! Thank you for sharing the knowledge and explaining this is such detail. Proof is in the putting ;)
Jay
Awesome video, Dave! Thanks for your hard work you put into this.
I have the feeling that Dave isn't a professional colorist.
kkkkkk
Really informative video Dave! Thank you for doing this. I was surprised at how sharp and detailed FS5 1080p footage was. I wish you would have done some 4K tests on the FS5 as well :) Just to see how the noise is handled in Slog-x profiles and higher res.
-Dmitry.
+HardwareCanucks The fs5 is only 8 bit at 4k
+HardwareCanucks The sharp on the FS5 at 1080p its because it records 4k in camera and down converts it to 1080p. :D
didn't expect to see your comment here. :)
would you by a camera that make with chit pictures.
@@whatelse6637 A7s II should be doing the same yet not as sharp as FS5.
Thanks for the comparison Dave. Great work as always!
Great video Dave. I would love to see a video like this on cine lenses.
Thanks for detailed and well thought out tests Dave I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to make these types of videos.
Can't wait for your A7S II course! Consider mine pre-ordered. Keep up the great work!
+Mike Rozman thanks for your support.
It would really be interesting to see the a6300 compared to the FS5 in a similar test. The "6k" down sampled to 4K on the a6300 compared to to the FS5 is kinda intriguing especially since the price points are so drastically different.
Thanks for this very illuminating video Dave! It definitely gives me somethings to think about for my professional video work.
Thanks for spending the time doing this! Great video!
Thank you for your time and patience producing such a great & informative video.
Someone else might have already said this - and if so I apologize: The whole thing with the 'Hey, using this little Sony at 4k underexposed for some reason doesn't give me noise problems' has to do with 'Super-sampling' (a big deal in the video game world).
When you downscale a 4k image which contains the inherent sensor noise (and the grains of that noise at a pixel size relative to the sensor pixel count) to the lower 1080 HD resolution you will (in effect) auto de-noise the resulting video by shrinking the pixel size of the noise grains. This happens to such an extent (4x smaller and then smoothed across the remaining pixels) that they are in many cases not visible in the down scaled pixel data.
Along with that happening, a few other happy advantages occur in terms of image sharpness and anti aliasing as well. Basically, Super-sampling is a great thing to do in many many instances from a visual fidelity standpoint.
I sit here at 2:49PM, on July 12th, 2020 eating an egg, potato, caramelized onions, and turkey-bacon breakfast and reading your comment as I chew, just nodding my head saying, “mmhmm, Yep, sounds legit,” but really not knowing what you are talking about. Lolz.
Your hard working shows us interesting results! Thank you for doing this test, Dave! Love this video!
Dave - where you see the difference in LOG between 10-bit and 8 bit is in the -3 to -4 where the log curve comes in from a flat curve to a linear curve. That's why people over expose 1 or 2 stops to move that shadow information to the linear part of the curve - The bits that are getting written on that flat curve are very small in 8-bit.
- Under exposing is something different. When you film at a correct exposure the light needed to capture the detail in the shadows is captured - when you under expose there is not enough light hitting the sensor for the detail and then lifting in post is creating artificial light. it is the equivalent of amplifying a low audio signal - yes, you can turn it up and hear the audio, but you bring up the noise floor with it. So a test of the difference from a colorist is going to be in the -3 - 4 stops . 8-bit will fall apart and 10 or 12 bit will retain that detail.
Thanks for putting this together Dave, most appreciated, keep em coming.
Super super helpful video- thanks for the effort that went into this!
I can't believe I watched this whole video. But I did, and thanks for doing this...learned a lot. Good job.
great video Dave. definitely a topic a lot of us have thought about, but don't know a whole lot about!
These are great tests you've done Dave. They tell a lot about the cameras and the technicality we seem to be too obsessed with. Keep it up! You would get 2 thumbs up from me if this weren't a UA-cam viewing!
Great test! Very useful - thanks for making the video Dave!
Dave this is very interesting. your video topic is always on point!!
Good video Sir. I appreciate the time and energy you invest in these productions. Take care, be safe!
Dave, GREAT info! I'd love to understand how down-rez'd 4K allows for what appears to be just as much editing headroom as a bump to 10-bit!
Great test Dave! Thanks so much for this!!
Thanks Dave for putting yourself out there on these tests, and actually doing them. I appreciate your common sense candid reviews!
Awesome video, I agree about A7s putting out a fantastic image
Great video Dave. Very informative. Thank you.
Hi Dave... Thanks for the great video.
What setting do U recommend on A7Sii for shooting in low light situation?
Great comparison. I recently shot a project on a rented FS5. I liked the image i got from it apart from the low light shots I did. I haven't decided if I will purchase the camera or not. What would be the benefits to getting an FS5 instead of the a7sii or vice versa?
Good test, Dave! Banding is a tough test to show on You tube because of the compression but you know what you are talking about so I'll take your word for it. Cheers.
great video. but I got few questions.
1. when you shot in 4k on the a7Rii - the footage you showed was rendered down to 1080? or left at 4k?
2. what does the 10bit fs5 look like compared at 4k, next to the a7rii at 8bit 4k?
Thank you for putting this elaborate comparison together. Very helpful for me!
Thanks Dave, this is incredibly helpful. I love your no-nonsense approach.
I know it takes a lot of time to make theses videos and I am sure that everybody appreciates these types of video’s. Thank you for your time and keep up the excellent work.
+Da Media Man thanks. Not everyone does judging by the down votes on this one.
Hey Dave! Great review. Quick question, are you seeing a big difference between recording internally versus recording through the Atomos with the a7r/a7s in 4K?
Doug, as usual, this is another phenomenal video. In regards to the noise in RAW (sensor data without compression): when recording RAW, the footage is not processed by the camera's onboard Digital Signal Processor (DSP) which handles the noise. Hence the noise reduction must be applied during edit.
Amazing review!! Thank you for this information.
Super helpful! I shoot with the FS5 primarily now over my A7S + Shogun for 4k. In the right conditions, aka majority of my commercial shoots where I am working with controlled light, it’s totally fine. For anyone who relies heavily on natural light, the A7S series is surely a godsend. Other than the obvious differences that one is a video camcorder and the other is a photo camera that does video, *rigging* the A7/S series can be a pain point, especially if and when you rely on getting the shot quickly. I still love our A7S but I made it a point that you have to essentially “Frankenstein” it via the XLR audio capabilities, extended battery, external monitor/recorder along with a cage and rails to make it all work. But coming back to your video, you did an excellent job illustrating the quality of both cameras and in most cases, it’s in the eye of the beholder that matters [you clearly showed this by showing zoomed-in examples for those who are watching via phones/tablets] Because, what good is shooting in 4K+ if you’re audience is watching on a small screen. :)
Dave -quick question ? How can I set up my a7s2 to be used with the Zacuto EVF pro " the older one " so I can record 4K internal but output a 1080p signal - ?
Is it as simple as changing the HDMI output setting in the menu to 1080p instead of 2160p/1080p just want to be able to use the Zacuto EVF to see a picture -and as you know when we output to 4K to a Ninga / shogun the screen goes black - what am I missing ?
TK !!
Dave, so great review and right when I need it cause I'm investing in a7s2 and was worried about how really big deference is between mirrorless and proper video cameras.
In case of 4K how did you process it? Did you put 4k on 1080 sequence, export it and than made a grading. Or you grade at the same time with downscaling?
Thank you.
Great piece Dave. This 8bit vs. 10bit video debate is looking a lot like the still guys lossy vs. lossless RAW debate. Under normal conditions, with a reasonably well exposed file, the differences are minor after normal post-processing.
Furthermore, when presented on **highly compressed social media platforms** both files (video and stills) will basically render the same. Thanks ~Chris
Great video! Very informative.
Very informative Dave Dugdale thank you for all your time on this. Quick question, when you convert your 4K to 1080, must you actually render out the 4k to 1080 and then bring into a 1080 timeline OR can you simply drop the 4k onto a 1080 timeline, scale to frame size and begin grading? Thanks for the info again.
Dave now you got really hi-end videos about technical stuff that are really informative!
You just take the Right theme, and make the "Right in the eye" videos about.
You may really be proud of yourself!
Just remember to shout a lot of videos for you family and yourself, try not to forget over all technical stuff what is the main purpose of capturing moving pictures - save history (for your family and others) and try not to forget about backups and storing you video archive for future generations.
Any way thank you for making a lot of worthy work and sharing it with us! It's super-cool!
Hi Dave. I have the A7S II and I'm experimenting with the S-Log 3 profile. I was wondering if putting the saturation to the max is good for color grading?
Thanks Dave, the combination of your video and comments gave me a lot information! But taking on the issue was key! BTW, I noticed your from my former haunts... Superior and Breckenridge.
Thank you Dave! This video is a really helpful!
great video Dave :) learnt a lot :)
super helpful video dave! I am considering buying an A7SII and was concerned with the banding, but you took my fears :D ... now question is, shall i go for the S II or R II :D I am photographer but want to do way more video :D
You will like my next video, I talk about which one I use more.
Awesome! Can you give a sneak peak on your decision? I likely want to order today as I will head to Rocky Mountains on Saturday and want something more compact in addition to my BMCC ;)
don;t listen n he has no idea what he talks,I have sony a7s II and blackmagic pocket which shoots 12bit raw or 10bit prores,you just can;t compare to shitty 8bit log footage from sony, as soon you grade banding and magenta all over.it's simple if 8bit log file is shit.
Your work is great, Dave! Thank you very much
Very informative. Thanks Dave. Not a lot of people have access to a number of cameras like that, so your comparisons (even with the issues you had - and admitted too) are super valuable - Very impressed with the A7Sii. How about providing us a small selection of unedited footage from the FS5 and A7Sii (maybe the mountain/sky one) for us to see with our own eyes?
Thanks for sharing your work with us. Great video
Great video as always Dave. I noticed though that you have a new monitor compared to the
LG 34UM95-P that won your heart during the monitor shoot out a year and a half ago, or perhaps you have multiple setups on different locations. What are you using now and what are your thoughts on using a curved monitor for mainly editing photos? (Looking in for an upgrade to my 6 year old 23" IPS)
Your humility and transparency are amazing. Thank you for being so clear.
Dear Dave, thank you for this video it will be a milestone! I'm not professional but let me ask you a question, to dawngrade 4k video from my a7s2 to 1080 i need just to start a new proj (finalcut) at 1080 instead 4k? or you need to convert all the footage with other program?
Time traveling Dave, thank you for yet another great & solid video.
thanks for doing this Dave - my conclusion: it's a myth that 8bit always falls apart in grading.
+DSLRguide thanks Simon, really like your channel, you are doing a great job!
+DSLRguide I think the myth came from earlier 8-bit cameras and such. Like how people say digital cameras have poor dynamic range in comparison to film cameras. This was only true in the beginning. I think the same case stands for 8-bit. P.S LOVE YOUR CHANNEL BRO
+DSLRguide Nice vídeo nice comparative, but dont forget that FS5 do 1080p capturing and down convert in camera. A7sx i dont know how the camera capture de 1080p but It seams it also down convert. Anyone can confirm if A7Sx use down convert in camera like FS5?
+DSLRguide Obviously 8bit holds well when reasonable exposure and low ISO is used but i think the really implication here is the fact that 4k 8bit does well in comparison to 10bit 422 because UHD "4K" HAS DOUBLE THE horizontal and vertical chrominance data (CR,CB) regardless if its sampled at 4.2.0 8bit...I guess high resolution video give more information for video editing software to make estimated guesses when changing RGB color channel and when lifting luminance and chrominance levels.
+Dave Dugdale @davedugdale I still think setting picture profile gamma to "still". (isnt this the one closest to rec709?) . i think its not a flat profile/good contrast + saturated /non-flat colors. When i got the a7s long time ago. I was looking for vids on green screen using a7s. there was none. so i did quick tests on my own. profile "Still" barely had any noise compared to other gammas. all i did was 1 click. no adjustments needed using keylight compared to other profiles. I posted this in a7s facebook group page , but i guess not a lot of people green screen ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks for good information.what is best option for colour grading s-log 3 or without it?
What editing program did you use for changing the white balance?
Dave, I know this a bit off topic but it is something you have experience with. All these great 4k cameras are coming out and most of them are shooting 8bit. Did you like the 14bit capabilities of shooting on the 5dmkiii? Is it still something that is relevant?
At 10:00 the banding on the sky playing through youtube is pretty noticeable. Do you have any sample footage not reprocessed posted?
Hi Dave, I want to start to become a filmaker, should I use a 10 bit monitor?
Dave-
If you would have not downsampled the 4k footage, does it look as noisy at the 10bit 1080 from the FS7? Also, did you try just 1080 8 bit on the a7s?
Trying to figure out what the A7sii has less noise.
Thanks for having the guts to put it out there! Even though you were talking over my head, I learned a little. Thanks
18:14 - Which lens and aperture/shutter setting were you using for this night shot?
Great video Dave! But of course the question for me is... how does the FS5 10bit 4k RAW do it compared to the 8bit 4K of the A7Rii ???
Thanks for your suggestion and explanation, and I have a question: Does the Sony FS5 give a difference with external screens for recording like Ninja Five? Do you recommend that I sell it and buy another camera with better specifications?
Mate, you are so good at this.
If I ever need a turbo geek to pull apart and analyse video footage, I'm at your door.
Love your way.
so would you suggest not to shoot log, when using the a7sII when going up to 120fps, when youre shooting slog2 in 4k mode?
We are not grading any video and need the best 1080 quality from the FS5, what settings do you recomend?
Hey Dave, great video! I just got a 27" 4K IPS 10 bit (8 bit + frc) display, LG 27UD58. In photoshop I enabled the 30 bit display checkbox, but when I open a 4K document and do a diagonal gradient from black to white, i see a lot of diagonal stripes. Do you have any idea what this might happen?
Thanks for putting the time and energy into creating this video. Some good comparisons. A suggestion for any future test would be to put the titles and info for the camera a bit higher up in the frame. If you pause UA-cam to look at the images, the play button, mute, CC, and other options are overplayed right on top of the camera title info. Not a huge issue, but sometimes tricky to read.
Really great video
+Matthew Pearce thanks Matt, that means a lot coming from you. Love the stuff you create!
For this type of video, might I suggest exporting and uploading to UA-cam in 4K, even though you didn't shoot or edit in 4K. If we then select 4K in our player, UA-cam will handle the video with a higher bitrate meaning we get a much more detailed image even though it's not actual 4K. You probably already knew of this but I might as well suggest it anyway.
+Flikkert This! I was about to make this comment :) Nevertheless great video. Thank you for putting your time in it, Dave!
+Flikkert thanks for the idea. I have never tried that so I might have to do some testing.
+Dave Dugdale You're welcome! I learned this from LinusTechTips, they did a video where they showed a lot about down- and upscaling, and now their workflow is basically: they shoot in 4K, convert to Cineform 1080p to edit with GPU acceleration, and then export in 4K again to get the high bitrate in UA-cam.
Also, I read my comment again and I think I might have come over a bit unfriendly, so I just want to add it still was a very informative video! Thanks for doing all the effort!
Hi Dave,
I'm just wondering do you know if the FS5 outputs 10bit or 8 bit over hdmi in 4k?
Thanks for this, Dave! Your videos are great. Random question - why did you choose a curved display over a flat one?
+Emile Modesitt because I don't need to move my head.
This is a fantastic video. Thanks very much for your efforts.
A7SII 4K vs 5D3 Raw Video. Doesn't see that around too. Would that be insteresting?
Great video man! Just the kind of useful exploration of something people talk about all the time but rarely actually test! Quick question, could you do a video on the difference between the A7s II shooting on the shogun vs. internally, and see the differences between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2? Or just say some of the differences you've found between when you use the internal codec on the a7sII vs on the Shogun? Thanks!
Hi Dave - this is great. Thanks for the efforts. Just a question: why didn't you shoot the FS5 in 4K to compare it to the A7?
+Bill Putnam because 4K on the fs5 is only 8 bit.
+Dave Dugdale Ok makes sense. Like I said, man, appreciate everything you did here.
Hi Dave, did you ever compare Sony FS5 4k 420 8bit to Sony FS5 HD 422 10bit if downsampling...i´ve no idea what might better if your final resolution is HD
Very informative video. Many thanks for going to all the trouble to test these cameras - inc. the C100. Would like to know how the new Sony A6300 would fare in similar tests?
Thank you very much for this video, Dave!
Hi Dave! Thanks for another great video. BTW Which camera do you use to film yourself at your desk?
+MAX Votolato thanks! a7Rii
Dave, one more question if you don't mind. Would this 8bit 4k downsample wizardry only work if you record externally from the uncompressed hdmi output? Thanks alot mate, keep up the good work, love your videos! kind regards Daniel
Great video, +Dave Dugdale so informative! Over what time period did you make it?
Listening to how many times you said "and now it's a couple of weeks later, here are some more tests", it looks like this video took at least a couple of months to create.
+Simon Patterson thanks, I compared both cameras for about 5 weeks.
Dave Dugdale 5 weeks - that's huge! Thanks for all the time and effort you put into your reviews, including this one. You have so much balanced, useful information, all well presented.
great illustrations!!
As you say, in the end it's results that matter. Thanks so much for putting together another informative video. I can't wait for the a7sii course!
Hi I was wondering if you know if the focus peaking option is still available for manual lenses like a rokinon per example on the A7S2