Does anyone else feel like Mads used the line about what material, boats are made of, AS A LEAD IN TO THE JOKE ABOUT "WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT"??? Dear Mads, we watch you for the best information to build, repair, and sail boats!! Please leave comedy to the professionals!! We use tiny biscuits, all of the time!! They are great with a "LITTLE GRAVY"! Signed, The Midget Bakers!!
I am so glad that the guy building my boat did not put epoxy everywhere in the interior so it can be disasempled without destroying the whole boat. I'm changing pumps, water hoses, running new electrical cables, put in new electrical head, new blackwater pump. And there is ordinare screws to remove all interior, no squeek in my boat, thanks to the steel hull.
If you are going to obtain a new router bit for the door and drawer fronts, maybe you might consider getting a matched pair of cabinet door router bits. Good luck either way.
Mads, for the drawer fronts. Take the lighter wood and resaw it to at least half its current thickness. Then take the top and bottom rail of the drawer front and cut a grove in the edge facing down or up depending on whether it is the top or bottom. Then slide the thin wood into the slots and glue in place. Makes for a quite easy construction of a door front or cabinet door.
Sir , please don’t be distressed by my observation but I must share my experience. I lost 1.5 fingers of my left hand in a table saw and this is what I learned, I now do not hold wood behind the blade during my accident a piece of oak bound on the blade and the saw pushed the wood forward before I could blink. The entire event happened so fast that I had no chance to even let go of the soft pressure I had on the board . I am left with no index finger and a little more than half my thumb. I have become very good at using a rubber tipped push stick to control small pieces behind the blade . It is my deepest hope to see you and Ava sailing on the channel! So please consider never holding wood behind the blade. Sorry for the downer comment, hope this helps
Just to add a bit to the safety warning... Don't use a stop to control the length of cut. You are asking for a kickback. Just put a mark on the wood where you need to stop and another mark on the saw fence. When the marks line up you've cut far enough.
@@johnVidBozo I make most of my cuts with a circular saw and usually clamp the board down to keep it under control. Are you saying I should never do that either? Just hold it down with my hand?
This is saw related or the awesome power of power saws. This guy I knew had a radial arm saw. that thing always scared me even though I have been around dangerous machinery since I was ten years old. I was cutting a four by eight sheet of plywood half an inch thick. It was kind of warped. Somehow the saw blade caught hold of it and shot it out of the other side of the saw (where I was not standing). It flung the whole sheet of plywood about ten feet and it hit a wall and stuck in the drywall. Luckily there was a cinderblock wall behind the drywall. (It was an office building and it would have been scary if it had gone farther through into an office where people were doing Gordon Gecko type stuff). So this is a true story. It was long ago. I can't remember if I was standing on the safe side by choice or accident. But woe would have been me if that plywood had hit me in the abdomen! It surprised me that the saw was so powerful.
@@JakeHolman78 I'm not sure what you are describing. Using feather boards (infeed side of blade only!) to keep the piece against the fence is good. Using some sort of hold down to keep the piece down on the table is good. Having a splitter behind the blade it great. OK I just reread your comment. Circular saw is kind of the opposite of table saw. You move the saw not the wood. Perhaps that is not what you ment??? Anyway I totally agree about clamping wood down when using a circular saw as long as the clamps are not on the off-cut side.
Instead of joining drawer pieces square, you could mitre join them, so it would mean that glue surface would roughly double and you wouldn't see any end grain from any side. And as well this would sort out the biscuit problem. Keep up the good work!
Kreg pocket screws can be your best friends when making face frames. I prefer using mortise and tenoning for door and drawer fronts. Great wood combination!
A biscuit joiner eh , yeah i got one of them . Now i'd like to give it the big thumbs up , but the truth is i'm not sure i can . I was first introduced to them back in the late 90's , by an american program i used to watch . One of the presenters , Norm Abraham a master carpenter , did another program that i can't for the life of me , remember the name of now . Norm swore by his biscuit jointer , using it all the time with different woodworking projects (actually he also made draw fronts , with matching doors) . It was based on this , that i invested in one of these tools , and subsequently used it for joining sheet ply together for a van i was converting into a camper . I have to say i was pleased with the result , it was easy to use and the finished job came out really well . But , there's always a but ent there , recently i read somewhere on you tube he had stopped using his , he was having problem with the biscuit's shrinking , and the joint's weaken . I can only say , i never had a problem , but i don't have the van anymore , so i can't say any more than that .
@Jim Nickles You star , that was driving me nuts trying to remember the name of his program . Thank you . I don't think there was , and he knew how to use them all , too . I certainly learned a lot from him and his antics with that table saw , lol . I used to watch him on sky when i had it , the only problem was he was using American products and i'm across the pond , in the GB .
From "Steve Ramsey - Woodworking for Mere Mortals" Is a biscuit joiner completely useless? Yeah. But the thumbnail looks pretty cool, right? ua-cam.com/video/HEHXuoU-CLM/v-deo.html
I would use ply inserts for the draw and door fronts to help keep weight down. When you go to put your draw fronts on first make and drill at least one hole for your handles, then you can align your draw front and use that hole to screw the front on making sure of you clearances around you door front. Then carefully open draw and then screw from inside draw to attract draw front, then remove front screw then drill completely through your draw to attach handle. There are some great UA-cam kitchen building clips. Keep up your great progress.
Dude! Wood glue! The time you spend on mixing the epoxy to glue structurally non-critical pieces of "paper" together is driving the project manager in me crazy :D
😂😂😂 Mads quickly assesses (in fact, even quicker than I hoped) why bisquit joints are b****hit and one better builds a far superior Pantorouter for the joints needed in outfitting any boat/RV/flat.
Hi Mads, As usual, nice and amazing job. For the cabinet behind the faucet, you should install the faucet on the corner of the sink. This way, the faucet will not affect the opening of the cabine door.
For the doors don't be afraid to just use pocket holes on the pieces that are two narrow for biscuits, both are strong enough, you could go all out and use a beefier method but its not really needed, often we will use a plywood to fill in the centre as well as its cost effective and no movement issues that plain wood will have. As for boat building material, Its a hole in the water you throw money at, there is no perfect product, but there might be a few you can live with :) Fiberglas, aluminum, steel, wood, etc all are perfectly fine as long as you do the work to maintain them.
Hi Mads, I just discovered your channel (late May 2020) and I am binge watching the Athena refit videos from the beginning. I watched this one just to see how far you have made it and I can see that I have lots of excitement in store. Thank you for being so incredibly disciplined about posting your videos. When I realized that you are in Skive, I felt a bit of a bond; I have lived in the U.S. for over 30 years but grew up in Nykøbing M. On a more useful note, I would caution you about how you assemble Ipe. It is notoriously difficult to glue because of its high oil content and mechanical fasteners are recommended; you may want to add some screws to your drawer front frames. Also, biscuits are primarily for alignment and not for structural joints. For what you are doing here, the Festool Domino or dowels are much better choices. That said, the drawer fronts are low stress parts and you will probably be just fine. Okay, it’s back to 2018 for me 🤓. P.S. Glad you still have all your digits, I second everything said by others about table saw safety.
Cabinet maker here with my 2 cents on the door front construction. Do a little research on how to build a simple Shaker door front. There are tons of tutorials on how to do it using just a table saw, no fancy tools necessary. Basically, it goes as follows: Cut a 15mm deep groove in the center 1/3 of the inside of the frame pieces (say you're using 18mm thick material, cut a 6mm wide groove, leaving 6mm on either side). Then cut the short frame pieces 30mm longer and remove the outer 6mm on either side, 15mm deep on either end, so those will slot into the long rails. It becomes a tongue and groove joint. That will give an incredibly solid glue joint, and its super easy to do. The center piece(s) should NOT be glued in. They need room to shrink/swell depending on humidity, particularly if you're using solid wood. Ideally, you should be using a 6mm plywood for the center panel, but solid wood will work so long as you cut the pieces a few mm shorter so they have room to move.
Another choice to use for joining wood is pocket hole joinery by Kregg. No need for gluing but I would recommend it do to the movement of a boat. Your sailboat is coming along really nice.
If you want to continue with biscuit joints, get a router and a biscuit slot cutter for it. They have a smaller radius than standard biscuit router slot cutter.
+Sail Life: Well, Mads, as is _always_ the case, the video was thoroughly enjoyed/appreciated! Watching you from the perspective of some 70 years of _doodling about_ w/ various building materials, your scratching your head whilst trying to _"figure-out"_ how to fit pieces/parts w/ a micro-biscuit is a real trip 😝! Knowing you, it's a _"known"_ that you will persevere; making said pieces/parts fit in a quite _spiffy_ manner! Once again, as always, keep on truckin' on, my good man. You are well up there w/ the best of them. Many thanks for sharing your work!
The biscuits come in multiple sizes. I don't know about your biscuit cutter, but mine came with two different blades that allow me to cover 4 (as best I remember) different size biscuits. I simply change the blade as needed, adjust the machine, and voila! different size biscuits can be installed. I don't know about availability of the different size biscuits in your area, but it would be worth looking into. It would certainly beat having to carve little ones out of big ones. Keep up the great work.
Mads, if you miter the corners of your drawers at 45 degrees rather than butt join them, then the length of the corner will permit you to use the smallest sized biscuits. Use your hand router and a piloted bit to cut a relief for your slats after the outer frames are dry.
Hey Mads... Without reading through all the comments... I use "Pocket Screws" to build cabinets... Most cabinets makers here in the States do. "Kreg k4 pocket hole jig master system" is a good easy to use tool and you can get it from Amazon... I've used pocket screws successfully for 35 years... You're doing a great job by the way! One thing I keep worrying about for you is getting the "Electrical" and "Plumbing done before anything else goes in... Regardless you are doing great! Try to get some rest in between working a full-time job and your soon to be an amazing home!
For the door frames, go *old school* and make mortise and tenons. Then you *have to* buy some new tools (saws, chisels, mallet, etc), and I can assure you it's satisfying to make them and galactically spiffy to look at.
For your drawer fronts, consider having the corners mitred. You have the tools to do clean/accurate 45 degree cuts. This will then allow a long enough joint for the biscuits to work. Also, you can easily cut the rabbet on the inner edge for your center panel wood without it showing on the edges. Just a thought.
Many cabinet shops here in the states are using pocket hole jigs to assemble drawer fronts, cabinets, and face frames. They are cheep, quick, and fairly simple to use. However, you've chosen one of the hardest woods out there as your drawer front, and may run into issue with the self tapping screws splitting the wood. From my experience he biscuit jointer is mainly used for alignment in long glue-ups and is not a structural joint. Keep up the good work. Good Luck!
Pocket hole jig for pocket hole screws is what most cabinet builders are using now rather than biscuits for the frames. Biscuits work great for other application when working with the grain and making wider boards like table tops
Kreg R3 Jig Pocket Hole Kit ( on Amazon) is how I would put the drawer fronts together. It uses special screws that are screwed into pockets. The screws have really good clamping power and will only show from the back of the drawer front. Please look into it, I've used this method for face frames on cabinets for years and used them on picture frames and even put together a screen door using the pocket holes and screws. You're doing a wonderful job on the interior!
Panel doors would be a good place to use your new biscuit joiner . I finished last summer, 11 door panels 1/2" or 12 mm thick panel stock and used #10 size biscuits. Doors were straight panel meaning no face frame to deal with . mine were all rustic hickory. I would also recommend for your face frame the use of Kreg jig and pocket holes . Quick, strong and with stainless screws non corroding. Glue can be added to joint also if desired.
In a kitchen or galley area, a better and more sanitary finish for the drawer fronts would be a satin wipe on polyurethane. In the head, any woodwork should be coated with penetrating epoxy and then a topcoat of wipe on satin poly.
Dowels are inexpensive and strong. There are several dowel jigs out there that are affordable as well. The biscuit jointer is great for aligning things you want to glue and clamp, but do not offer the best structural support. You always come up with great solutions and I am sure you will hear also.
The front you have designed is nothing more than a filled picture frame. As such, 45* corners with spline reinforcement will be more than adequate. You can also use the second wood species for the splines which makes a really cool subtle accent.
I concur on mitered joints. I think the woods he has chosen are quite stable, but in a marine enviroment, there will be a lot of changes in humidity, and a mitred joint should help to mitigate issues with wood movement. Mads: Make sure to leave some room for the slats in the center of the frame to move, if you make it too tight, it might break apart when the woods swells.
Making cabinets is tricky to get them right, My suggestion is to look up a good cabinet maker and beg him to allow you to make them at their shop with their supervision, That way it's done right and to your design and you will learn for future.
Made you should use wood glue for your cabinet door joinery. It is pretty strong enough and it will be easier to sand before you put the finish on the doors. The epoxy will likely leave a stain on the wood that will show through the finish. Dowels are also better than the biscuit for this type of joinery. The panels inside the doors should be left floating and be sized a tiny bit smaller to allow for wood movement unless they are made of plywood. To avoid these rattling you can pin them in the centre or use a small rubber gasket in the groove. Do not glue them in place as your joinery will come apart or crack.
Mads, l'm always amazed at your ability to figure things out and the commitment you show. Excellent decision on NOT using the table saw for a router,(fingers saved). It's coming together and looking great, keep up the good work and good video's.
This is going to be the best build boat on all the 7 seas... I hope you live on it forever! I assume you have read Roger Taylor's books about his adventures, sailing in the Arctic with Ming Ming. If not, I highly recommend them. He's a great Writer...
New game idea. While at anchor with friends watch the latest episode and every time there is an "Athenaism" such as "pretty dang spiffy" take a sip of your favorite rum beverage!
A drawer/ door front tip... Have the center section float in the frame. Maybe leave a 1mm gap on top and one side. I'm not familiar with the exact woods but I know different woods expand and contract at different rates. In a boat that is going to be in extreme climates... I bet there will be some warping and cracking if they are built solid.
I will comfirm you need a little room for expantion / contraction, and btw. The brazilian wood tends to get a silver / grey tone over time in cold weather, wisit you local wood pusher, and try to finde a pice, that has been sitting, the winter over, reaplying oil will bring back the colour it have now, i get a beatiful patina thou.
Another option for joining the drawer fronts is to clamp your frame together and then using a long bit, drill through the two pieces of wood at each corner from the outside and glue in a dowel making it an exposed tenon. I made a black walnut box once and used this method to connect the sides and I used a brass rod as the tenon. Once it was polished up and oiled, it looked really great.
Oh please, oh please, oh please make a fun video of glorious sanding intermixed with various electric saw cutting sounds. I like the sound the biscuit cutter😎🍺👍
I've used pocket screws for drawer fronts. For cabinet doors that hinge open, I've used tongue and groove. But dowels would be perfectly good for both.
Someone may have said this, there are small biscuits available, and you tool may adjust for different sizes, mine does. As for drawer fronts, you are building two items, a box for the drawer and an independent front. AFTER you build the box and install it on the slides, position the drawer front on the front of the box with clamps and screw/glue/epoxy the two together. Then add hardware. Start with the bottom drawer and use shims of desired but consistent size between the bottom and successive drawer fronts. Voila, you have a pro looking cabinet front. For bonus points, join the drawer box corners in such a way that the joint takes the strain of opening, not the fasteners or glue. If I could add a diagram, I would.
You are doing some Beautiful Craftsmanship on the interior i thought you Ikea comment was funny I’m retired now due to a Traumatic Brain Injury and for over 20 years i was a Professional Woodworker that also had the hobby of Woodworking for over 35 years Ive used many Lamellos in my life they are convienent although ive never treated myself to a specific Machine like you did i simply use a Wing cutter/ Bearing for my Router its not fast but it works and one day i will find a good value on the machine and treat myself to one like you did ( prices have come down over the years ) Especially on used ones and on Venues like Ebay I also agree on the final look of your Galley painted White with those drawer fronts should mak it look great perhaps on your cabinet behind the faucet a roll top style door is what you need ? Ive owned Airstream Trailers and they use a lot of those because of space restraints in small spaces plus similar to a boat Airstreams have curved walls to work around or with so everything has to be custom built or scribed into place
You do such great work. I have a suggestion for drawer fronts. I recently refitted my live aboard and I was in Canada so very concerned about moisture and ventilation (I am now in Mexico). For all of my cabinet door and large drawer panels I used Phifertex (outdoor sling chair fabric) over top a panel of 1/4”/6mm plywood with 2”/50mm holes drilled through the plywood. This allows air and moisture to travel through all storage areas. Phifertex comes in a hundred (or so) coloured patterns. My interior is primarily varnished teak and the Phifertex pattern gives a very nice elegance to my cabinets.
Mads, I've used dowel pins for cabinet faces and frames. They are more useful for narrow widths. More versatile as well, use 2, 3, 4 depending on width. Also you may need a new tool!
Given your proclivity to go 'whole hog' on any project you attack (believe me, I suffer from that disease as well, so I know your pain), you might consider using mortise and tenon construction. Investing in a good mortise cutter and plunge router would speed up the job (there are specialized mortising machines too, if you can find a used one, that would be even better). Especially since I think that you will have some doors that need to be built, the mortise and tenon option on the drawer faces would give you some practice for the doors. Cutting the tenons can be done on a tablesaw, do mind those fingers and use a jig. On the other hand, simple half-lap joints are always a good choice too. Very strong and fairly easy to do on a table saw.
"Kreg" system for screwing faceframes. Next best thing to duct tape and drywall screws! ;) The other option is to use the panel dado as the "groove, and tenon the ends of the styles/rails (can never remember which!) Into them. A little glue and clamp....voila.
I make a *lot* of drawers, the easiest way is to use pocket holes on a false front and then just screw a nice front to it, then those pocket holes are completely hidden. The other pockets are on the back and can only be seen if you remove the drawer completely. Bead of wood glue, and some pocket screws and your good.
Hey Mads. Really nice to see the building up. All looks really promising!! Regarding the door and draw fronts.. when you build a frame with peaces of wood in there as a panel, keep some room in the width of the wood to expand. Otherwise it wil brake the frame. I also like to make the frames a bit oversized so I can saw them to size on all sides to make the seams really clean and fix some alignments if needed. A festool domino would be a life hack, but also a big investment.... you can also buy a 8mm routerbit and make a jig for the plunge router and use just the domino’s. The biscuit machine is perfect for aligning panels and building a plywood draw but not really ideal when building a frame. No doubt you will get them spiffy;)
As far as how to deal with the small locker space behind the sink faucet? I say no doors or drawer faces. How about shelves with fiddles. The fiddles can be the same wood as the louvers in your current drawer faces. Maybe make custom slots/shelves to mate with plates, bowls, glasses, mugs. That way you can easily put them away or grab them (without having to open up a door).
for my 2 cents, just buy a set of router bits for raised panel doors. You will get your money's worth you are doing lots of doors/drawers/covers and what not. Actually faster than messing with biscuits. Also, the reason most doors with slats like that are T&G is so the wood can move and they are not glued into a solid thing. Same reason table tops are not glued to the stretchers but screwed with oval hole clips.
Love your videos ! When I built my 36 foot sailing cat, I made all the floors, joinery, lockers and cabinets, below water line with ' lift out bottoms ' floor boards. For fast and easy inspection in case of hull breach. For the water tight crash box areas, I used access hatches with stainess screws with wing nuts and gaskets. All areas of hull can be inspected fast. Cheers, Sail On 😁
Regarding the fronts your making. Lamellos are not intended for corner joints, as you discovered. Having a table saw makes it easy to half on half corner joint and a little recess to lay in a panel, I wouldn't do slats. A little water based stain would pull all the different colored woods closer together.
Cabinetry is a separate art unto itself, there are literally dozens of ways to make those cabinet faces. Half lap would be very strong but you need a dado set up. If I were you I think I'd go with Krag joints and glue..
Well of all the hull materials Alum is the easiest to build repair. Only special tool is the welder everything else is cut with normal tools and grinder. But my boat is a 27 Albin fc trawler which is glass so that’s y I’m watching your channel and Andy at boatworks. Keep it up makes me want to rebuild my interior and head. Also have you looked into compost heads.
If you are going to stain or apply an oil finish on the drawer fronts you may want to reconsider your choice of adhesive. I would be afraid that even the smallest amount that got on the face during assembly would quickly seep into the grain making future finishes uneven. A glue that can easily be removed before it dries or perhaps masking tape on edges where epoxy might get out is a good idea.
Since you love to try new things, and get new toys... I suggest you build a nice, traditional woodworking bench. Then buy some nice chisels and handsaws, and use those to build your mortise and tenon drawer fronts. :) Obviously, I'm kidding, but I bet it would be a wonderful woodworking table!
My experience with door fronts is all the methods are acceptable if you glue the joints. Ive done biscuits, dowels, screwed corners and pocket holes. Doors that I didn't glue over time became lose in the corners. Glue or epoxy will be fine. There studies that prove that glue is enough by itself but I always add something. I think your doing great. PS all my cabinet experience is NOT on a boat...
If there is not enough room for a biscuit then use dowels (you put them in with a dowel jig). Also what makes biscuits strong is it's interaction with water based glue (Tightbond III or equivalent, should be the only water based glue used on a boat) expanding the biscuit.
I'm totally impressed with the quality of your work I need to rebuild the inside of my boat ! It looks so scary but you make it look so easy ! I'll just have to watch your videos over and over maybe 25 times !
So far everything looks really nice, but personally i would've left the bottom of the small wooden Box you built (the one that sits under the box for the drawers) not screwed/epoxied down. That way you could've taken it out whenever there would be a problem down there and have easy access for repairs. Right now it seems like you'd have to basically rebuild this whole part of the kitchen in case anything would happen under there.
2 words for building cabinet door frames-Pocket screws. Biscuits work great for attacking items on edge duck as building a table top for joining the slats but pocket screws are the way TIG o for the frame. Also I would not hard mount the middle of the door spiked to the frame but leave it floating especially since you have two different woods that will sheik and swell in the environments you will be sailing in. Making it float will give the door room to expand and contract and you won’t have splitting issues
I would use a router table to cut a groove in the center of the frame and insert the vertical slats allowing them to float. The Kreg pocket holes are good, but so are biscuits.
definitely second this, you really just have a floating panel with the temperature and moisture changes in the solid wood on the boat, gaps will open up before you even launch if you glue the central pieces in
Does anyone else feel like Mads used the line about what material, boats are made of, AS A LEAD IN TO THE JOKE ABOUT "WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT"???
Dear Mads, we watch you for the best information to build, repair, and sail boats!! Please leave comedy to the professionals!!
We use tiny biscuits, all of the time!! They are great with a "LITTLE GRAVY"!
Signed, The Midget Bakers!!
watching your videos floats my boat. You're videos got better since you met Ava. Way to go Ava, you go girl, keep em on a short lease :-)
You are rocking this. Pretty darn spiffy.
I am so glad that the guy building my boat did not put epoxy everywhere in the interior so it can be disasempled without destroying the whole boat. I'm changing pumps, water hoses, running new electrical cables, put in new electrical head, new blackwater pump. And there is ordinare screws to remove all interior, no squeek in my boat, thanks to the steel hull.
If you are going to obtain a new router bit for the door and drawer fronts, maybe you might consider getting a matched pair of cabinet door router bits. Good luck either way.
Between all those tools and the heavy duty construction, that boat is going to sink like a rock. Kidding, I always enjoy watching a master at work.
Mads, for the drawer fronts. Take the lighter wood and resaw it to at least half its current thickness. Then take the top and bottom rail of the drawer front and cut a grove in the edge facing down or up depending on whether it is the top or bottom. Then slide the thin wood into the slots and glue in place. Makes for a quite easy construction of a door front or cabinet door.
Sir , please don’t be distressed by my observation but I must share my experience. I lost 1.5 fingers of my left hand in a table saw and this is what I learned, I now do not hold wood behind the blade during my accident a piece of oak bound on the blade and the saw pushed the wood forward before I could blink. The entire event happened so fast that I had no chance to even let go of the soft pressure I had on the board . I am left with no index finger and a little more than half my thumb. I have become very good at using a rubber tipped push stick to control small pieces behind the blade . It is my deepest hope to see you and Ava sailing on the channel! So please consider never holding wood behind the blade. Sorry for the downer comment, hope this helps
Just to add a bit to the safety warning...
Don't use a stop to control the length of cut. You are asking for a kickback. Just put a mark on the wood where you need to stop and another mark on the saw fence. When the marks line up you've cut far enough.
@@johnVidBozo I make most of my cuts with a circular saw and usually clamp the board down to keep it under control. Are you saying I should never do that either? Just hold it down with my hand?
This is saw related or the awesome power of power saws. This guy I knew had a radial arm saw. that thing always scared me even though I have been around dangerous machinery since I was ten years old. I was cutting a four by eight sheet of plywood half an inch thick. It was kind of warped. Somehow the saw blade caught hold of it and shot it out of the other side of the saw (where I was not standing). It flung the whole sheet of plywood about ten feet and it hit a wall and stuck in the drywall. Luckily there was a cinderblock wall behind the drywall. (It was an office building and it would have been scary if it had gone farther through into an office where people were doing Gordon Gecko type stuff). So this is a true story. It was long ago. I can't remember if I was standing on the safe side by choice or accident. But woe would have been me if that plywood had hit me in the abdomen! It surprised me that the saw was so powerful.
@@JakeHolman78 I'm not sure what you are describing. Using feather boards (infeed side of blade only!) to keep the piece against the fence is good. Using some sort of hold down to keep the piece down on the table is good. Having a splitter behind the blade it great.
OK I just reread your comment. Circular saw is kind of the opposite of table saw. You move the saw not the wood. Perhaps that is not what you ment??? Anyway I totally agree about clamping wood down when using a circular saw as long as the clamps are not on the off-cut side.
nicolas perez p
Instead of joining drawer pieces square, you could mitre join them, so it would mean that glue surface would roughly double and you wouldn't see any end grain from any side. And as well this would sort out the biscuit problem. Keep up the good work!
Kreg pocket screws can be your best friends when making face frames. I prefer using mortise and tenoning for door and drawer fronts. Great wood combination!
A biscuit joiner eh , yeah i got one of them . Now i'd like to give it the big thumbs up , but the truth is i'm not sure i can . I was first introduced to them back in the late 90's , by an american program i used to watch . One of the presenters , Norm Abraham a master carpenter , did another program that i can't for the life of me , remember the name of now . Norm swore by his biscuit jointer , using it all the time with different woodworking projects (actually he also made draw fronts , with matching doors) . It was based on this , that i invested in one of these tools , and subsequently used it for joining sheet ply together for a van i was converting into a camper . I have to say i was pleased with the result , it was easy to use and the finished job came out really well . But , there's always a but ent there , recently i read somewhere on you tube he had stopped using his , he was having problem with the biscuit's shrinking , and the joint's weaken . I can only say , i never had a problem , but i don't have the van anymore , so i can't say any more than that .
@Jim Nickles You star , that was driving me nuts trying to remember the name of his program . Thank you .
I don't think there was , and he knew how to use them all , too . I certainly learned a lot from him and his antics with that table saw , lol . I used to watch him on sky when i had it , the only problem was he was using American products and i'm across the pond , in the GB .
From "Steve Ramsey - Woodworking for Mere Mortals"
Is a biscuit joiner completely useless? Yeah. But the thumbnail looks pretty cool, right?
ua-cam.com/video/HEHXuoU-CLM/v-deo.html
"Whatever floats your boat" :D I see what you did there
I would use ply inserts for the draw and door fronts to help keep weight down. When you go to put your draw fronts on first make and drill at least one hole for your handles, then you can align your draw front and use that hole to screw the front on making sure of you clearances around you door front. Then carefully open draw and then screw from inside draw to attract draw front, then remove front screw then drill completely through your draw to attach handle. There are some great UA-cam kitchen building clips. Keep up your great progress.
Dude! Wood glue! The time you spend on mixing the epoxy to glue structurally non-critical pieces of "paper" together is driving the project manager in me crazy :D
😂😂😂 Mads quickly assesses (in fact, even quicker than I hoped) why bisquit joints are b****hit and one better builds a far superior Pantorouter for the joints needed in outfitting any boat/RV/flat.
Hi Mads,
As usual, nice and amazing job.
For the cabinet behind the faucet, you should install the faucet on the corner of the sink.
This way, the faucet will not affect the opening of the cabine door.
For the doors don't be afraid to just use pocket holes on the pieces that are two narrow for biscuits, both are strong enough, you could go all out and use a beefier method but its not really needed, often we will use a plywood to fill in the centre as well as its cost effective and no movement issues that plain wood will have. As for boat building material, Its a hole in the water you throw money at, there is no perfect product, but there might be a few you can live with :) Fiberglas, aluminum, steel, wood, etc all are perfectly fine as long as you do the work to maintain them.
Hi Mads, I just discovered your channel (late May 2020) and I am binge watching the Athena refit videos from the beginning. I watched this one just to see how far you have made it and I can see that I have lots of excitement in store. Thank you for being so incredibly disciplined about posting your videos. When I realized that you are in Skive, I felt a bit of a bond; I have lived in the U.S. for over 30 years but grew up in Nykøbing M.
On a more useful note, I would caution you about how you assemble Ipe. It is notoriously difficult to glue because of its high oil content and mechanical fasteners are recommended; you may want to add some screws to your drawer front frames. Also, biscuits are primarily for alignment and not for structural joints. For what you are doing here, the Festool Domino or dowels are much better choices. That said, the drawer fronts are low stress parts and you will probably be just fine. Okay, it’s back to 2018 for me 🤓.
P.S. Glad you still have all your digits, I second everything said by others about table saw safety.
Cabinet maker here with my 2 cents on the door front construction. Do a little research on how to build a simple Shaker door front. There are tons of tutorials on how to do it using just a table saw, no fancy tools necessary. Basically, it goes as follows: Cut a 15mm deep groove in the center 1/3 of the inside of the frame pieces (say you're using 18mm thick material, cut a 6mm wide groove, leaving 6mm on either side). Then cut the short frame pieces 30mm longer and remove the outer 6mm on either side, 15mm deep on either end, so those will slot into the long rails. It becomes a tongue and groove joint. That will give an incredibly solid glue joint, and its super easy to do. The center piece(s) should NOT be glued in. They need room to shrink/swell depending on humidity, particularly if you're using solid wood. Ideally, you should be using a 6mm plywood for the center panel, but solid wood will work so long as you cut the pieces a few mm shorter so they have room to move.
Another choice to use for joining wood is pocket hole joinery by Kregg. No need for gluing but I would recommend it do to the movement of a boat. Your sailboat is coming along really nice.
If you want to continue with biscuit joints, get a router and a biscuit slot cutter for it. They have a smaller radius than standard biscuit router slot cutter.
+Sail Life: Well, Mads, as is _always_ the case, the video was thoroughly enjoyed/appreciated! Watching you from the perspective of some 70 years of _doodling about_ w/ various building materials, your scratching your head whilst trying to _"figure-out"_ how to fit pieces/parts w/ a micro-biscuit is a real trip 😝! Knowing you, it's a _"known"_ that you will persevere; making said pieces/parts fit in a quite _spiffy_ manner! Once again, as always, keep on truckin' on, my good man. You are well up there w/ the best of them. Many thanks for sharing your work!
The biscuits come in multiple sizes. I don't know about your biscuit cutter, but mine came with two different blades that allow me to cover 4 (as best I remember) different size biscuits. I simply change the blade as needed, adjust the machine, and voila! different size biscuits can be installed. I don't know about availability of the different size biscuits in your area, but it would be worth looking into. It would certainly beat having to carve little ones out of big ones. Keep up the great work.
With that fancy of a galley that you're putting in, I hope that Miss Ava is one hell of a cook.
Mads, if you miter the corners of your drawers at 45 degrees rather than butt join them, then the length of the corner will permit you to use the smallest sized biscuits. Use your hand router and a piloted bit to cut a relief for your slats after the outer frames are dry.
Hey Mads... Without reading through all the comments... I use "Pocket Screws" to build cabinets... Most cabinets makers here in the States do. "Kreg k4 pocket hole jig master system" is a good easy to use tool and you can get it from Amazon... I've used pocket screws successfully for 35 years... You're doing a great job by the way! One thing I keep worrying about for you is getting the "Electrical" and "Plumbing done before anything else goes in... Regardless you are doing great! Try to get some rest in between working a full-time job and your soon to be an amazing home!
For the door frames, go *old school* and make mortise and tenons. Then you *have to* buy some new tools (saws, chisels, mallet, etc), and I can assure you it's satisfying to make them and galactically spiffy to look at.
For your drawer fronts, consider having the corners mitred. You have the tools to do clean/accurate 45 degree cuts. This will then allow a long enough joint for the biscuits to work. Also, you can easily cut the rabbet on the inner edge for your center panel wood without it showing on the edges. Just a thought.
Mads, the best way to build the frames is to do "half laps", this can be done on a table saw.
Many cabinet shops here in the states are using pocket hole jigs to assemble drawer fronts, cabinets, and face frames. They are cheep, quick, and fairly simple to use. However, you've chosen one of the hardest woods out there as your drawer front, and may run into issue with the self tapping screws splitting the wood. From my experience he biscuit jointer is mainly used for alignment in long glue-ups and is not a structural joint. Keep up the good work. Good Luck!
Pocket hole jig for pocket hole screws is what most cabinet builders are using now rather than biscuits for the frames. Biscuits work great for other application when working with the grain and making wider boards like table tops
flip out tilt draw in front of sink would be very cool.
Kreg R3 Jig Pocket Hole Kit ( on Amazon) is how I would put the drawer fronts together. It uses special screws that are screwed into pockets. The screws have really good clamping power and will only show from the back of the drawer front. Please look into it, I've used this method for face frames on cabinets for years and used them on picture frames and even put together a screen door using the pocket holes and screws. You're doing a wonderful job on the interior!
"whatever floats your boat" Brilliant!
Panel doors would be a good place to use your new biscuit joiner . I finished last summer, 11 door panels 1/2" or 12 mm thick panel stock and used #10 size biscuits. Doors were straight panel meaning no face frame to deal with . mine were all rustic hickory. I would also recommend for your face frame the use of Kreg jig and pocket holes . Quick, strong and with stainless screws non corroding. Glue can be added to joint also if desired.
Nice work Madds the draw fronts will look very nice once completed with the wood two colours
Pocket hole screws! Great for joinery, and easy using only a clamp on jig and a drill
Hi Mads, love your work. Remember when you are heeled for a long time the water may not drain into the bilge from under the counter.
And with a biscuit jointer I just came full circle to "This Old House" and "The New Yankee Workshop".
Thanks Norm.... I mean Mads
In a kitchen or galley area, a better and more sanitary finish for the drawer fronts would be a satin wipe on polyurethane. In the head, any woodwork should be coated with penetrating epoxy and then a topcoat of wipe on satin poly.
Dowels are inexpensive and strong. There are several dowel jigs out there that are affordable as well. The biscuit jointer is great for aligning things you want to glue and clamp, but do not offer the best structural support. You always come up with great solutions and I am sure you will hear also.
The front you have designed is nothing more than a filled picture frame. As such, 45* corners with spline reinforcement will be more than adequate. You can also use the second wood species for the splines which makes a really cool subtle accent.
I concur on mitered joints. I think the woods he has chosen are quite stable, but in a marine enviroment, there will be a lot of changes in humidity, and a mitred joint should help to mitigate issues with wood movement. Mads: Make sure to leave some room for the slats in the center of the frame to move, if you make it too tight, it might break apart when the woods swells.
A cope and stick router bit will make professional drawer fronts. You could also use a Kreg jig, which is simpler and easier, to make your frames.
Making cabinets is tricky to get them right, My suggestion is to look up a good cabinet maker and beg him to allow you to make them at their shop with their supervision, That way it's done right and to your design and you will learn for future.
Hi guys! My Sunday isn't complete without this phrase
For your drawer fronts......mortise and tenon.
Whatever floats your boat.. yep! Thanks Mads. Thats quite a hole though.
Made you should use wood glue for your cabinet door joinery. It is pretty strong enough and it will be easier to sand before you put the finish on the doors. The epoxy will likely leave a stain on the wood that will show through the finish. Dowels are also better than the biscuit for this type of joinery. The panels inside the doors should be left floating and be sized a tiny bit smaller to allow for wood movement unless they are made of plywood. To avoid these rattling you can pin them in the centre or use a small rubber gasket in the groove. Do not glue them in place as your joinery will come apart or crack.
Mads, l'm always amazed at your ability to figure things out and the commitment you show. Excellent decision on NOT using the table saw for a router,(fingers saved). It's coming together and looking great, keep up the good work and good video's.
This is going to be the best build boat on all the 7 seas... I hope you live on it forever! I assume you have read Roger Taylor's books about his adventures, sailing in the Arctic with Ming Ming. If not, I highly recommend them. He's a great Writer...
New game idea. While at anchor with friends watch the latest episode and every time there is an "Athenaism" such as "pretty dang spiffy" take a sip of your favorite rum beverage!
Use a Kreg Pocket hole jig! they're super easy to use!
stile and rail router bits strong and easy. better for doors than biscuits.
A drawer/ door front tip... Have the center section float in the frame. Maybe leave a 1mm gap on top and one side. I'm not familiar with the exact woods but I know different woods expand and contract at different rates. In a boat that is going to be in extreme climates... I bet there will be some warping and cracking if they are built solid.
I will comfirm you need a little room for expantion / contraction, and btw. The brazilian wood tends to get a silver / grey tone over time in cold weather, wisit you local wood pusher, and try to finde a pice, that has been sitting, the winter over, reaplying oil will bring back the colour it have now, i get a beatiful patina thou.
Another option for joining the drawer fronts is to clamp your frame together and then using a long bit, drill through the two pieces of wood at each corner from the outside and glue in a dowel making it an exposed tenon. I made a black walnut box once and used this method to connect the sides and I used a brass rod as the tenon. Once it was polished up and oiled, it looked really great.
Easiest to use dowels to reinforce the drawer front rails and stiles.
Oh please, oh please, oh please make a fun video of glorious sanding intermixed with various electric saw cutting sounds. I like the sound the biscuit cutter😎🍺👍
I've used pocket screws for drawer fronts. For cabinet doors that hinge open, I've used tongue and groove. But dowels would be perfectly good for both.
Someone may have said this, there are small biscuits available, and you tool may adjust for different sizes, mine does. As for drawer fronts, you are building two items, a box for the drawer and an independent front. AFTER you build the box and install it on the slides, position the drawer front on the front of the box with clamps and screw/glue/epoxy the two together. Then add hardware. Start with the bottom drawer and use shims of desired but consistent size between the bottom and successive drawer fronts. Voila, you have a pro looking cabinet front. For bonus points, join the drawer box corners in such a way that the joint takes the strain of opening, not the fasteners or glue. If I could add a diagram, I would.
You are doing some Beautiful Craftsmanship on the interior i thought you Ikea comment was funny I’m retired now due to a Traumatic Brain Injury and for over 20 years i was a Professional Woodworker that also had the hobby of Woodworking for over 35 years Ive used many Lamellos in my life they are convienent although ive never treated myself to a specific Machine like you did i simply use a Wing cutter/ Bearing for my Router its not fast but it works and one day i will find a good value on the machine and treat myself to one like you did ( prices have come down over the years ) Especially on used ones and on Venues like Ebay I also agree on the final look of your Galley painted White with those drawer fronts should mak it look great perhaps on your cabinet behind the faucet a roll top style door is what you need ? Ive owned Airstream Trailers and they use a lot of those because of space restraints in small spaces plus similar to a boat Airstreams have curved walls to work around or with so everything has to be custom built or scribed into place
You do such great work. I have a suggestion for drawer fronts. I recently refitted my live aboard and I was in Canada so very concerned about moisture and ventilation (I am now in Mexico). For all of my cabinet door and large drawer panels I used Phifertex (outdoor sling chair fabric) over top a panel of 1/4”/6mm plywood with 2”/50mm holes drilled through the plywood. This allows air and moisture to travel through all storage areas. Phifertex comes in a hundred (or so) coloured patterns. My interior is primarily varnished teak and the Phifertex pattern gives a very nice elegance to my cabinets.
It's about time Mads (LOL). I've been waiting all morning for your video to be posted!
Hehe, sorry to keep you waiting :)
Floating tennons will work for you. You can size them to your needs. Not the fastest but you're making few drawer fronts.
Mads, I've used dowel pins for cabinet faces and frames. They are more useful for narrow widths. More versatile as well, use 2, 3, 4 depending on width. Also you may need a new tool!
He can use a drill bit with the correct jig?
@@rowantaylor4070 Yes, you can get a dowel jig for less than $20. I've used them for speaker building and various projects.
I agree with the dowels as opposed to biscuits and Mads since you like tools check out the Dowel Max. its a very versatile doweling jig
I've built some really sturdy joints with hardwood dowel pins.
Tim French Good advice, I'll add (a bit late perhaps) that 45° cuts makes for an even more spiffy appearance :)
Given your proclivity to go 'whole hog' on any project you attack (believe me, I suffer from that disease as well, so I know your pain), you might consider using mortise and tenon construction. Investing in a good mortise cutter and plunge router would speed up the job (there are specialized mortising machines too, if you can find a used one, that would be even better). Especially since I think that you will have some doors that need to be built, the mortise and tenon option on the drawer faces would give you some practice for the doors. Cutting the tenons can be done on a tablesaw, do mind those fingers and use a jig.
On the other hand, simple half-lap joints are always a good choice too. Very strong and fairly easy to do on a table saw.
A tambour door will be an option for the area by the faucet.
Thanks Mads
"Kreg" system for screwing faceframes. Next best thing to duct tape and drywall screws! ;) The other option is to use the panel dado as the "groove, and tenon the ends of the styles/rails (can never remember which!) Into them. A little glue and clamp....voila.
I make a *lot* of drawers, the easiest way is to use pocket holes on a false front and then just screw a nice front to it, then those pocket holes are completely hidden. The other pockets are on the back and can only be seen if you remove the drawer completely. Bead of wood glue, and some pocket screws and your good.
Hey Mads. Really nice to see the building up. All looks really promising!! Regarding the door and draw fronts.. when you build a frame with peaces of wood in there as a panel, keep some room in the width of the wood to expand. Otherwise it wil brake the frame. I also like to make the frames a bit oversized so I can saw them to size on all sides to make the seams really clean and fix some alignments if needed. A festool domino would be a life hack, but also a big investment.... you can also buy a 8mm routerbit and make a jig for the plunge router and use just the domino’s. The biscuit machine is perfect for aligning panels and building a plywood draw but not really ideal when building a frame. No doubt you will get them spiffy;)
As far as how to deal with the small locker space behind the sink faucet? I say no doors or drawer faces. How about shelves with fiddles. The fiddles can be the same wood as the louvers in your current drawer faces. Maybe make custom slots/shelves to mate with plates, bowls, glasses, mugs. That way you can easily put them away or grab them (without having to open up a door).
for my 2 cents, just buy a set of router bits for raised panel doors. You will get your money's worth you are doing lots of doors/drawers/covers and what not. Actually faster than messing with biscuits. Also, the reason most doors with slats like that are T&G is so the wood can move and they are not glued into a solid thing. Same reason table tops are not glued to the stretchers but screwed with oval hole clips.
I would love to see you build a roll top door over the sink. Its a cool New thing to learn!!!!!!!
Kreg Jig makes beautiful door fronts
I’d recommend getting a good set of rail and stile router bits, and leave the center panels floating ... just my 2 cents!
I agree that is how commercial cabinet doors are made, you can get a set reasonably cheap
Beaded "bread box" lid or roll top desk lid would work and look great.
Those are called tambour doors
Anything sliding on a boat tends get stuck easily. Would look nice though.
christopher berthelet Great idea!
Kreg pocket screws, easy, fast, and strong
Love your videos !
When I built my 36 foot sailing cat, I made all the floors, joinery, lockers and cabinets, below water line with ' lift out bottoms ' floor boards. For fast and easy inspection in case of hull breach. For the water tight crash box areas, I used access hatches with stainess screws with wing nuts and gaskets. All areas of hull can be inspected fast. Cheers, Sail On 😁
Love watching you sand (work hard), as I drink a beer. 😂🤣🍻
The galley is looking great Mads. I think you're on the right path with the drawer fronts. I like the look of them so far.
Regarding the fronts your making. Lamellos are not intended for corner joints, as you discovered. Having a table saw makes it easy to half on half corner joint and a little recess to lay in a panel, I wouldn't do slats. A little water based stain would pull all the different colored woods closer together.
As always great material
Cabinetry is a separate art unto itself, there are literally dozens of ways to make those cabinet faces. Half lap would be very strong but you need a dado set up. If I were you I think I'd go with Krag joints and glue..
Mads, we come your beautiful words and stay for the glorious sanding.
P.S. definitely use dowels.
Well of all the hull materials Alum is the easiest to build repair. Only special tool is the welder everything else is cut with normal tools and grinder. But my boat is a 27 Albin fc trawler which is glass so that’s y I’m watching your channel and Andy at boatworks. Keep it up makes me want to rebuild my interior and head. Also have you looked into compost heads.
If you are going to stain or apply an oil finish on the drawer fronts you may want to reconsider your choice of adhesive. I would be afraid that even the smallest amount that got on the face during assembly would quickly seep into the grain making future finishes uneven. A glue that can easily be removed before it dries or perhaps masking tape on edges where epoxy might get out is a good idea.
Since you love to try new things, and get new toys...
I suggest you build a nice, traditional woodworking bench. Then buy some nice chisels and handsaws, and use those to build your mortise and tenon drawer fronts. :)
Obviously, I'm kidding, but I bet it would be a wonderful woodworking table!
I don't know if you've got any ideas for faucets but Brady on Delos was showing off some quite interesting bendy ones in his last video.
My experience with door fronts is all the methods are acceptable if you glue the joints. Ive done biscuits, dowels, screwed corners and pocket holes. Doors that I didn't glue over time became lose in the corners. Glue or epoxy will be fine. There studies that prove that glue is enough by itself but I always add something. I think your doing great. PS all my cabinet experience is NOT on a boat...
Whatever floats your boat!
If there is not enough room for a biscuit then use dowels (you put them in with a dowel jig). Also what makes biscuits strong is it's interaction with water based glue (Tightbond III or equivalent, should be the only water based glue used on a boat) expanding the biscuit.
When will you finally give up that tedious day job, Mads? We want a daily watch party :)
Progress!
I'm totally impressed with the quality of your work I need to rebuild the inside of my boat ! It looks so scary but you make it look so easy ! I'll just have to watch your videos over and over maybe 25 times !
So far everything looks really nice, but personally i would've left the bottom of the small wooden Box you built (the one that sits under the box for the drawers) not screwed/epoxied down. That way you could've taken it out whenever there would be a problem down there and have easy access for repairs. Right now it seems like you'd have to basically rebuild this whole part of the kitchen in case anything would happen under there.
You could try mortise and tenon construction rather than biscuits. I know it is not the traditional application, but it might be scaleable.
Nice video. Personally I would use two dowel pins instead of a biscuit. Keep up the good work.
2 words for building cabinet door frames-Pocket screws.
Biscuits work great for attacking items on edge duck as building a table top for joining the slats but pocket screws are the way TIG o for the frame.
Also I would not hard mount the middle of the door spiked to the frame but leave it floating especially since you have two different woods that will sheik and swell in the environments you will be sailing in.
Making it float will give the door room to expand and contract and you won’t have splitting issues
I would use a router table to cut a groove in the center of the frame and insert the vertical slats allowing them to float. The Kreg pocket holes are good, but so are biscuits.
definitely second this, you really just have a floating panel with the temperature and moisture changes in the solid wood on the boat, gaps will open up before you even launch if you glue the central pieces in
He could even use the table saw with multiple passes.
I need to see hours and hours of glorious sanding. Be happy, be safe.
Yikes! That's a lot of sanding ... ;)