This Legion NPC PROVES One Of My OLDEST THEORIES!

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  • Опубліковано 17 лис 2024
  • Ігри

КОМЕНТАРІ • 122

  • @Pyromancer
    @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +30

    I see we have some people correcting how I pronounced Astrologer. If you aren’t familiar, FF14 has a class Astrologian in which you DO pronounce it the way I am. It isn’t correct for the word Astrologer, of course, but that’s why I said it that way. Also, there are 7 planetary bodies + the two larger (which I say are the Dream and Shadowlands). This actually aligns tremendously well with the nine realms in Norse Mythology and the supposed nine Titans, when including Argus and Azeroth.

    • @joshuacrime
      @joshuacrime 6 місяців тому +1

      It can be pronounced both ways. The FF way is kind of archaic, but it's still perfectly fine.

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +4

      @@joshuacrimeTbf what is language in FF14 if not archaic? 😂

    • @Velshin1986
      @Velshin1986 6 місяців тому

      @@PyromancerWhy you seems too happy?🤣 last time I saw you you were raging about WoW SL and quit.

    • @matt_r.2510
      @matt_r.2510 6 місяців тому

      I think it sounds cooler the way you said/say it and I instantly recognized it from FF14.

    • @joshuacrime
      @joshuacrime 6 місяців тому

      It's the more academic way. Logos is the word. And it's low, not log.
      People sometimes forget about how all academic learning required a lot of Greek and Latin terms.
      Any masters thesis or PhD defense was 100% oral exams and usually in Latin. And it was not all that long ago.

  • @steffen7478
    @steffen7478 6 місяців тому +74

    "everyone plays too fast" a truer quote has never been uttered before about wow players

    • @Thrasherbear
      @Thrasherbear 6 місяців тому

      Speedsets on all my characters lol

    • @charlayned
      @charlayned 6 місяців тому +2

      And THAT is my problem with running anything in a pug, the things are done on "run, run, run" and I never get a chance to look around. At least when I am running with a guild (uh...Pyro? When we get the cross-realm thing, wanna take us on a few group raids/dungeons where we can actually walk around and actually look at things?).

    • @primal4887
      @primal4887 6 місяців тому +1

      that's why im happy to have pyro back, cuz i definitely play that way

    • @pavelchromcak7384
      @pavelchromcak7384 5 місяців тому

      yep, when you want to look around in dungeon, or raid. you will get called all the racial slurs there are and kicked for being a pussy .

  • @SakiStargazer
    @SakiStargazer 6 місяців тому +50

    "this world is a prison"

    • @1shogunate696
      @1shogunate696 6 місяців тому +3

      Man sylvanas use to be so cool

  • @Menion98
    @Menion98 6 місяців тому +32

    2:03 “I’ve done this raid 100 times and I’ve never seen it” me farming the mounts

  • @Doddleran
    @Doddleran 6 місяців тому +14

    Truly amazing they still do these kind of details. Thanks for sharing this amazing detail!

  • @antball4177
    @antball4177 5 місяців тому +1

    Been watching your WoW content for years, you finding little details like this make me appreciate the lore and world building of WoW even more so

  • @mr.raptorinc3374
    @mr.raptorinc3374 6 місяців тому +9

    Azeroth could be a Dyson Sphere, channeling the power of the inner light to "somewhere"

  • @henrikhumle7255
    @henrikhumle7255 6 місяців тому +3

    Your interpretation of what's being shown is definitely interesting, and far be it from me to outright deny that any of this is going on; but this doesn't exactly outright "prove" anything. Him showing that there may or may not be hidden celestial bodies circling Azeroth doesn't outright prove that those celestial bodies not only exist and are hidden from view, and that they're the primordial/planetary forms of the Titan Pantheon.
    You can't analyze an object and then state that the fact that you've analyzed the object proves your thesis. You may argue that this seems to suggest, as other characters in The Nighthold also do, that some things are indeed hidden from us, and that Azeroth is trapped in some form of artificial shell that keeps these things from view, but then you also have to explain how it is that we are seemingly free to both leave and enter this supposed veil at will, and why we can't see any of this when in space, far above the artificial sky. Unless, of course, you want to argue that Azeroth isn't just surrounded by an artificial sky, but an entire artificial universe. Or that the supposed Titans orbiting Azeroth are themselves cloaked and invisible, even when outside of the veil; a conclusion which begs the question of why they'd bother constructing an artificial sky.
    I like your theory to the extent that I am able to piece it together from these relatively short snippets that you share, but I don't see how this NPC and his actions PROVE anything. At best, he maybe suggests that we don't have the whole picture, and that there were plans for the story to lean into these cosmic mysteries before the BfA/SL storylines happened.

  • @attilatistyan4037
    @attilatistyan4037 6 місяців тому +2

    as you look at the star map hologram thingy you can see two planets with those strange rings orbiting them. just like the incarnets' prison in dragonflight

  • @SpoonerTutoring
    @SpoonerTutoring 6 місяців тому +2

    Amazing video. Love your passion. I don't bother raiding, I wait until you can solo them and walk through as slowly as I can taking in all the details and lore - but you put even me to shame with this video, which I appreciate.

  • @TheGrey08
    @TheGrey08 5 місяців тому

    Yes dude, love this! So pumped to see how the WSS plays out and all the lore theory crafting/speculation and story payoff it all brings.

  • @roninhare9615
    @roninhare9615 6 місяців тому +1

    Pyro! Have you tried to see how those planets line up on the cosmology chart? If I’m being honest, the cosmology chart is 1 element shy of completing the 7 chakra’s… unless you consider Azeroth the heart Chakra… also, if we have planets revolving around Azeroth… planets don’t revolve around other planets unless they are smaller satalite moons… I think this give more credence that Azeroth is a Star Soul, and not a world soul…

  • @ASIRA89
    @ASIRA89 6 місяців тому +2

    To this day the Nighthold end-scene (that's the one where Gul'dan gets disenchanted by Illidan, right?) is maybe the most puzzling scene for me.
    But if Azeroth is a sun that would change things. And it would explain and fit into SO many other things. Wait... NOOOO haha that would explain my favorite Dreanor mystery!
    Also, it's been months and I'm still unable to get back into the Pyromancer discord for some reason.

  • @stephaniec3759
    @stephaniec3759 6 місяців тому +5

    I'm sure you are aware of this but I have found so many who weren't. Our map when opened, used to have clouds around the edges of the map. They were there for AGES and then one day they were gone. Some believe that these clouds depicted the vale that is around our planet.

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +7

      Do you know that there is a version where Aman’thul is seen fiddling with said clouds and Sargeras is stabbing a spear into the sun? Might wanna check it out!

    • @rasmuskjaerpoulsen
      @rasmuskjaerpoulsen 5 місяців тому

      @@Pyromancer In cata classic right now, Aman'thul is fiddling with the clouds and Sargeras seems to be looking towards Azeroth and is blocked by a horde Zeppelin.
      Might suggest that the players are in the way of Sargeras destroying the veil that amanthul is conjuring

  • @WWoggins
    @WWoggins 6 місяців тому +6

    Daym, this is a good video. Well spotted Pyro.

  • @matt_r.2510
    @matt_r.2510 6 місяців тому +1

    I also hope that there is a veil over the skies of Azeroth and I hope there is a grand reveal further down the line when it fits into the lore/narrative. It would be amazing when we are out exploring in the world to be able to see these planetary bodies orbiting or transiting across the heavens. I just hope they don't make them massive and put them too close. I would prefer they be smaller so that they don't look so close the Azeroth. Each planet if it is not orbiting Azeroth then they need to have their own transitory paths OR it would even be cool if they somehow orbit or spiral each other. It's a fantasy game so we don't exactly have to have anything similar to the layout of our own Solar System with the Sun at the center with most orbiting the Sun all aligned to the galactic plane. That would be cool but also kind of boring to see something similar in WOW.

  • @jonny8638
    @jonny8638 5 місяців тому

    Just something I noticed is that ra-den talks about war within back in pandaria in his fight.

  • @roninhare9615
    @roninhare9615 6 місяців тому +2

    If I may add to your theory of Aman’thul and Norganon. What if Golganneth was in cahoots with them. These 3 titans are the only 3 who lack color in their skin, the other titans have vibrant lively colors and Aman’thul, Norganon, and Golganneth have skin that seems devoid of life. Golganneth is the lord or sky’s and roaring oceans. The sky hides all of the other worldly planetary bodies from our view, much like the mist from pandaria and Uldem. We talk of the waters corrupting the dragon flights and the water under ground potentially trying to drown out Azeroth, we also have a kingdom of light, with the Arathi, who could be villains in midnight, protected by the storming seas. Who’s to say Golganneth has done all of this as apart of his, Aman’thul and Norginons plan? I think we’re sleeping on Golganneth, and what his part is in all of this.

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +3

      It’s funny you say that because they are the three Aesir titans which are all made of Platinum. In the RPG lore Golganneth is the ONLY Titan besides Sargeras who is listed as Chaotic. Could be a hint that he could betray the Aesir. I also believe that the three planets shown could be those exact three titans.

    • @roninhare9615
      @roninhare9615 6 місяців тому +1

      @@Pyromancer I’ve been sus of Golganneth for awhile now. Dude keeps his head to low for comfort, and imo when you’re dealing with a group of big bads, it usually comes in 3’s. Not to say that the Primus isn’t in cahoots with Aman’thul, he just runs his little pocket realm, be it he’s a tool for Aman’thul or a fragment of him. We focus a lot on what schemes the Primus is cooking up, but I think he’s a means to an end. It’s Golganneth that is Azeroth’s true jailer.

  • @floorboard563
    @floorboard563 6 місяців тому +2

    Lets not forget that if you open your map and zoom all the way out to the [World] tab. Azeroth literally is bigger than Shadowlands, outland and Draenor.

    • @NetherCrafterSMC
      @NetherCrafterSMC 5 місяців тому

      Cause it's the main section of the Map, you can't really use that map for an accurate scale

  • @meggidussmith1290
    @meggidussmith1290 6 місяців тому +1

    Im actually wow'd by this......I hope Blizzard keeps doing foreshadowing in a suble manner never noticed this and I do this raid all the time for cosmetics

  • @iv9ry
    @iv9ry 6 місяців тому +34

    5:50 god I miss her

    • @Dravanaar
      @Dravanaar 6 місяців тому +2

      Ah I see you are a man of culture as well!😎👍

    • @sves_16
      @sves_16 6 місяців тому +1

      HAHAHAHAA

    • @ImACookieTasteMe
      @ImACookieTasteMe 5 місяців тому

      everything reminds me of her

  • @Felpshcx
    @Felpshcx 6 місяців тому +4

    Hey Pyro, I think it would be nice if you did a video (not live) explaining your mains theorys in an oderly manner. Thank you for the great content!

    • @margineanbogdan6105
      @margineanbogdan6105 6 місяців тому

      If he does that maybe he wins the Azerite Globe at Blizz Awards !!!😂😂😂

  • @jeffkhh0
    @jeffkhh0 5 місяців тому

    True, I level up in 9.0 and 10.0 by talking to all the npc I see and read all the quest line it took me 3 weeks(1-2hr/day playing) to level up both times and it was the best time I had in a long while . WOW classic is still here people just skips it.

  • @norbertokennedy2550
    @norbertokennedy2550 5 місяців тому +6

    Repeat after me…Ah-straw-law-ger

    • @KathrynElizabethJaneway
      @KathrynElizabethJaneway 3 місяці тому

      @@norbertokennedy2550 More like astronomer, technically. An astrologer deals in bs, what that npc does is astronomy. Someone at Blizz doesn't know the difference, it seems.

    • @norbertokennedy2550
      @norbertokennedy2550 3 місяці тому

      @@KathrynElizabethJaneway I'm talking pronunciation, get off my junk.

  • @Imhellofgames
    @Imhellofgames 5 місяців тому

    The spheres around the worlds kind of look like the titan prisons in game. Also that's crazy I've never noticed the tear in the sky there in Nighthold before

  • @Hynrah
    @Hynrah 5 місяців тому

    Nope Star Augur already showed us in his final phase that Azeroth is a Void Lord, and Progenitor of the Old Gods.

  • @Scarlet_moon.
    @Scarlet_moon. 6 місяців тому

    Actually this would explain one of the greatest issues this game has,sky boxes.If not for the fact that Outland has different sky boxes as well.

  • @HawkknightXC88
    @HawkknightXC88 6 місяців тому

    Npc alone foreshadows alot of things to come in the future. I wonder if the Ethereal Homeworld would be next in WoW's Future Expansions foreshadowed by the Void.

  • @FellishBeast
    @FellishBeast 6 місяців тому

    I always loved being reminded to slow down by Pandaren NPC’s. It’s easy to forget to enjoy yourself.
    Pandaria was a not-so-subtle critique of the playerbase in my eyes, but I think most people missed it.

  • @motyfokol5392
    @motyfokol5392 5 місяців тому

    azeroth being a first one or the sun and Eonar being the actual titan of our world...somehow makes way too much sense. but i doubt they'll go in that direction...

  • @joshuacrime
    @joshuacrime 6 місяців тому +2

    Yah, I'm buying what you're selling here. It makes perfect sense. Elune is the Moon. Azeroth is the Sun. Every culture has their own version of the Sun and Moon being gods/whatever. And the Greek Gods did also.
    First thing I thought was: OK, this is why Xal calls Azeroth "an upstart goddess". The Greek gods came to power by OVERTHROWING THE TITANS. It's referred to as the Titanomachy. Ten years of war. Essentially the younger gods usurped their parents, who did the same until you get Zeus.
    The gods that ruled the heavenly bodies were called the Children of Hyperion. Eos, Selene and Helios. Helios the sun, Selene the Moon, and Eos for the rising dawn.
    We have Azeroth. We have Elune. Who is the rising dawn?

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +2

      It could be that Sargeras is An’she and Azeroth is the Rising Dawn. I almost like that better.

    • @joshuacrime
      @joshuacrime 5 місяців тому

      @@Pyromancer That'll play. I mean, they ape so much mythology in this game, it's gotta be something like that.
      It's a cool scenario anyway, because it plays like the Greek myth did. The upstart goddess was imprisoned by Zereth Ordos, Elune hides in the moon as a sort of Celestial, and Sargeras being fire guy and all, so to me it makes sense.
      God, get me away from this rabbit hole. LOL

  • @lordjaraxxus5418
    @lordjaraxxus5418 5 місяців тому

    Well, when the titans summoned Argus (the titan), Argus (the planet) was not destroyed even more.

  • @truepickle4956
    @truepickle4956 5 місяців тому

    In the Legion Antorus raid ending Cinematic, you can see one of these planets, its just under Valen's left shoulder... and that's not Azeroth cause Azeroth has the smoke around it, that planets sky is clear. Idk if this theory is correct. Give it a look. It is also between Azeroth AND Argus planets, so its one of the ones you mentioned. Please read this.

  • @johncurry7225
    @johncurry7225 6 місяців тому

    The Owl statue sitting on top of the sphere catches my attention. Is it coincidence that the Loa of Change is an Owl residing in the Emerald Dream? What if he's linked to Azeroth more closely than we think?
    One of his quotes says: "Through dream and flame, new life is made. A spark of fire, a spark of change!"
    Dream and Flame are connected? Dreaming is generally associated with Night and by association, the Moon as well. Flame could be representative of the Sun. The way he links them together, you would think they were conflicting forces of nature, yet both of them combined **create** change.
    Moon + Sun = Creation.
    Anshe + Musha = Azeroth?
    Elune + Sargera = Azeroth?
    IDK maybe there's something to it. Q'onzu is one of those characters that I feel knows more than he lets on.

  • @kent4833
    @kent4833 6 місяців тому

    This is an amazing video. You really have a gift of noticing things overlooked

  • @mookieblaelocker6504
    @mookieblaelocker6504 6 місяців тому +1

    We walked on Argus ffs

  • @Blcvnm
    @Blcvnm 6 місяців тому

    But if it's just the sky that prevents us to see the other planets, what about the times when we were above it ? Like on Argus or during the Pantheon scene... we didn't see those planets.

  • @yashizuko
    @yashizuko 6 місяців тому

    Yeah planets in karazhan have also a sound, a specific tone for each one of them

  • @baronmoork
    @baronmoork 5 місяців тому

    Edit: When I saw miniature I believed it would be about purple azeroth covered in tentacles which we see in the boss fight but I was actually about this hologram.

  • @RantechRadio
    @RantechRadio 6 місяців тому

    That fucking Flashgitz giggle at the end XD that's so me internally as I go on my wow rampages HAHAH XD

  • @stephencampbell7603
    @stephencampbell7603 4 місяці тому

    your excitement scares me lol

  • @meowcenaries8204
    @meowcenaries8204 6 місяців тому

    In the words of the great Ricky from TPB- “I fkin atodaso!”

  • @UTurn539
    @UTurn539 5 місяців тому

    I like you Pyro, you're wise - glad you're back

  • @Rearnold1987
    @Rearnold1987 6 місяців тому

    I have a question. Hope you reply.,
    Do you think we will see the Klaxxi again?
    I was doing their quests for mop remix and there was some interesting dialogue.
    “Your gods are not our gods”.
    “Should some god return we would stand with them as should you outsider” etc.
    Will we see them again?
    And was any of their story tied in or related to the upcoming expansions/story?
    The NPC name is Kil’ruk who says all of this if you wanted to look further into it.

  • @legendaryh9845
    @legendaryh9845 6 місяців тому

    Dungeon designers: “maybe they’ll spot this little Easter egg on the corner here :D”
    M+ players: “AIIGHT YOU FUCKS, LETS DO THIS IN 5 MIN TOPS”

  • @nickthebold
    @nickthebold 3 місяці тому

    So if Azeroth the being is really a star does that make the planet a Dyson sphere?

  • @jakelockwood8617
    @jakelockwood8617 5 місяців тому

    All WoW lore is pretty self explanatory if you delve deep enough and open your mind to crazy theories. The fact that people didnt know the sky was "Fake" just tells me that they dont pay enough attention to ever grasp the lore of WoW.

  • @Ballagorn_Ironblood
    @Ballagorn_Ironblood 6 місяців тому

    Every single sentient rece on Azeroth (besides Orcs and Draenei/Eredar) oryginaly existed on each Titan World, and some of them been moved by Titans to prison around Star God that is Azeroth as experiment and left. But then all life went extinct when Azeroth been hungry for Elemental Spirit, rest of the elements (fire, water, earth, air, decay) get mad and go to kick each others in the heads. Next step in that shit show was four Elemental Lords of Decay starts to play with cosmic Void and become the Old Gods as they got to much of good stuff, and so the Black Empire begin to form. When Titans returne to Azeroth to check how it was going been like "What the freaking furking Hell" as for them, their perfectly ordery orderd races should not fail so spectaculary and civilisation based on Void and Decay with touch of elemental powers is not to order for their taste. And thats the shitfest Titans dont wanna talk about.

  • @MahrDK
    @MahrDK 6 місяців тому +1

    Astro Jarin is jim carey in the truman show
    He can see the walls

  • @OGEETOMO
    @OGEETOMO 6 місяців тому

    If Azerorth is a sun, why is the sunwell called the sun well?

  • @GdsPfctIdiot
    @GdsPfctIdiot 6 місяців тому

    Lol, bro I think it's just "astrologer" like one who studies stars

  • @alvin13miller
    @alvin13miller 6 місяців тому

    You're playing again? Nice!

  • @FirstNullLast
    @FirstNullLast 6 місяців тому

    Frog nerf is why Azeroth is dying.

  • @Ginkiba81
    @Ginkiba81 6 місяців тому

    I have done this raid a lot for mogs & I have actually seen this, but Didn`t think much of it other than a cool thing in the raid. I like the theory you have here, you might be on to something 😀

  • @spenceranderson8254
    @spenceranderson8254 6 місяців тому

    I think there is actually 4 that he shows instead of 3. If there is a purple one anyway. Other than the blue one there is that milky one with the ring on it but the other, at least to me, has a greenish/yellowish tint as well as the ring on it being at a different angle from the milky one.

    • @spenceranderson8254
      @spenceranderson8254 6 місяців тому

      Like for instance, compare the one at 7 minutes exactly to the one at 7 minutes and 30 seconds.

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +1

      @@spenceranderson8254He only shows 3. I’ve stood there for 30mins to make sure of it. He does the purple, tan, and blue planets.

    • @spenceranderson8254
      @spenceranderson8254 6 місяців тому

      Hey thanks for the response. Am I just color blind then? I never saw purple but minus the blue one, the other 2 I pointed out are different yes? I’m not trying to argue, I’m a big fan, but that makes 4?

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +1

      @@spenceranderson8254The one at 7:00 is the purple one, the one at 7:30 is tan. The only other one to appear is the blue/red one that he first shows momentarily.

  • @darklurkerirl6101
    @darklurkerirl6101 6 місяців тому +1

    Great edits

  • @bryanjfranco2082
    @bryanjfranco2082 6 місяців тому

    Each shown planet has a single moon,

  • @purple7934
    @purple7934 6 місяців тому

    Random question, but what WoW OST is it that's used in the video outro?

    • @Penumbra20
      @Penumbra20 6 місяців тому

      Editor here. It's from the Silithus Wound area, around 2:40 in this video: ua-cam.com/video/lyivyXbpts8/v-deo.htmlsi=ciLr6_kla-1CHAKT

  • @mnrbrt
    @mnrbrt 6 місяців тому

    If you didnt know the sky was was, have you even truly played the gsme? Everyone should have flow into the ceiling once.

  • @baalslayer03
    @baalslayer03 6 місяців тому +1

    Dyson sphere? :]

  • @Malumbrus
    @Malumbrus 6 місяців тому

    Nice thumbnail hahaha

  • @abluecardigan
    @abluecardigan 5 місяців тому

    it's gnosticism all the way down

  • @alfredshaker1101
    @alfredshaker1101 6 місяців тому

    thats so cool :O

  • @edakraz241
    @edakraz241 5 місяців тому

    Uh-strahl-ager, not Astro-lodger

  • @leo-fekkes.
    @leo-fekkes. 5 місяців тому

    Stick gear set

  • @DanFree7
    @DanFree7 5 місяців тому

    Slow down. Hear that often from my wife.

  • @margineanbogdan6105
    @margineanbogdan6105 6 місяців тому

    Wtf u mean Azeroth is the sun?...nah bro i don't buy that...because that will imply that our planet is fake Azeroth.
    What if she is the Ultimate Power that will restore or remake the wow cosmos (WoW's cosmic Reorigination) when it gets too unbalanced and she will activate/wake-up only under special order of events and circumstances....so thats why everyone is attracted to her to try to control/suppress her as much as possible . Also i think Argus is one of the pieces that contributes to her awakening.
    This is how i see her role in the WoW universe for now tnx to u and Accolon's videos.

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому

      I mean that Azeroth is the creator god and that she is locked inside a Dyson sphere-esque prison where her power is being abused and potentially converted for the machinations of the Titans.

  • @Wendygram
    @Wendygram 6 місяців тому

    If the sky is fake, what do we see when we visit the dranei ship in space?

    • @Pyromancer
      @Pyromancer  6 місяців тому +3

      The stuff *outside* the veil…?

    • @Wendygram
      @Wendygram 6 місяців тому

      @@Pyromancer I genuinely don't know. I just know we're looking down at the planet. I don't remember what's behind it.

    • @Wendygram
      @Wendygram 6 місяців тому

      @@Pyromancer Sorry. I meant it as a genuine question. I realise it reads like a challenge. My bad.
      All I remember is empty space, but I was too busy watching to see what was to the left of Kalimdor as the planet turned.
      (Turns out it's the eastern kingdoms, damn)
      I wonder if it's been updated with the Dragon Isles since DF too.

  • @AlexArkwright
    @AlexArkwright 5 місяців тому

    Subscrbed!

  • @podrickfookinpayne2329
    @podrickfookinpayne2329 5 місяців тому

    Pyro is insane. Why doesn't he make his own AU? It'd honestly be fucking cool, but thinking his takes aren't outlandish(at the very least) is naive.

  • @sves_16
    @sves_16 5 місяців тому

    just brainrot raiders just like skipping all this important shit then will say the lore is shit

    • @sves_16
      @sves_16 5 місяців тому

      if you skip any dialogue then you cant complain

  • @vobic13
    @vobic13 6 місяців тому

    funny how you say something is scummy yet i remember your rant about WoW, its viewers and other ppl who stream the game then rage quit to play FF. you told us so? just like everyone told YOU so that you'd be back cause that WoW sub money is better then FF .