The People Who Hate Code
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2023
- Coding is great. I think so at least. Do you though? Does it matter? Is coding "just a job"?
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![[RANT] - I just can't anymore... #webdev #coding #programming](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XG40j-9H9qc/mqdefault.jpg)
I love programming, as long as nobody's paying me for it.
I can lock them if they don't pay
I've lost even that. 😢
Who believes that mother is the greatest warrior of the world!
😂😂
I pay zero. When would you like to start?
As a -10xer, I approve this message. I fucking hate programming.
Hey that’s great you’re passionate at not liking it. Keep up the good work!
as an other 10xer, that love the code but fucking hate the 3 hours of transport to and from work, but if you want this kind of job, you need to get to the city. but thx you take the kind of code no one like.
programming is shit, when its bad programming, when its good, its all good :)
@@clewless_1der not in my country, we got free healthcare and 7 weeks of pay leave but the bosses here think we don't do the job if they can't see us
@@clewless_1der what is more foobar is many devs here make 34k$ per year and pay half as taxes so we can give to the companies as they will move to the US if they need to pay taxes
My perspective as a tech lead but for a very small company - I do my best to keep up with what is helping in the greater growth of the web, and I do spend time outside of work hours keeping up and diving into these things. That said, I was "later" in life to being a dev, being 27 when I went back to study it again, and burning out of previous roles before coming to tech, I have built up a natural resistance to over working and devoting myself beyond the realm of what I need to do.
I love my job, I enjoy learning, and I'll do it outside of my job but only to a degree. I also appreciate people who can understand that I'm only responsible to work on these things in my work hours, and actually the work I do outside of that is by choice and beyond requirements just as important as those who stick up for the people who are happy to devote their lives to it.
To me it becomes a dangerous line to expect a worker to not only spend their work hours on something, but then to spend all their free time on it too. Both sides have their ups and downs, pros and cons, and different perspectives, and need to be respected for their choices.
Also, investment in work isn't always properly rewarded. Remember, you're just a link in a chain, a replaceable link most of the time.
Although I'm not a tech lead, his is very relatable for me too. For you 💐
I love and hate programming.
When I started it was really fun being able to make things myself, I noticed I had an easy time doing it too and decided to study it.
Now that it's my job I barely do any coding in my free time, I lose interest in little projects almost instantly.
Very rarely I still get the spark to do something new, but it fades quickly after I know something would work as I imagined.
I’m like this too. The key point is though, when I’m at work I am really engaged in my work and truly enjoy it. When I get home, I have no motivation to do any coding, even if it’s on a personal project I want to develop.
I have the opposite problem. I love coding so much, that I burn myself out. Doing it full-time, and also trying to squeeze in projects on the weekends or in the morning before work is just too much, and then work becomes a stressful slog to get through.
"Discipline will take you to places where motivation can't."
I like programming, but I feel so burnt out after my day job that I can't be bothered to do side projects, I like watching people talk about tech though, it's very easy to consume that type of content.
I feel exactly the same. Like I feel that I really really like it, but I just have no energy to tackle my side hustles/projects after work. Exercising, and other similar things besides work doesn’t help with focusing either. Maybe it’s just my space at home that I have working at for years
I do love programming. Unfortunately for me the saying of "Don't do your hobby for work" seems to be true. For the past half a year I've maybe touched my personal project once or twice. Hope I get that motivation to code outside of work back at some point.
I love it, it just has a "dark side" to it where there seems to be so much to learn, that it can be perpetually daunting. There's a list of things I want to learn that never stops growing, and a list of things I really SHOULD learn that also keeps growing, and the pressure to stay somewhat on top of them introduces a fair bit of stress and maybe even exacerbates imposter syndrome.. and then there's finding the time for side projects, which can feel impossible between work and personal commitments.
I was going to say that I love it despite these things but actually I think loving it might be necessary (in my case, at least) in order to persevere through the challenges of keeping up with the industry, and continually adding strings to your bow without feeling tired of it.
I relate to everything you said, but honestly, if a person is so curious and passionate about learning, the effects you mentioned would happen in many other fields of study as well.
@@AnsisPlepis Absolutely. Thinking about it, I suppose the issue might be more the motive for learning something. If it's simply because you're excited about the technology then it's fantastic and it's going to be a lot of fun. If it's more out of feeling some professional obligation or feeling like you need to keep up with your peers, then it's going to be less of a positive experience.
I hate programming and I hate learning non-computer languages, too.
I only like science language and math language.
Whether it is spending hours finding the correct words and syntax to create a sentence in Python or C++ or Java that does something useful or spending hours finding the correct words and syntax to create a sentence in Russian, French, Chinese, Hungarian, etc just to say one useful thing, the amount of payoff, of benefit, is trivially insignificant compared to the effort.
With science and math, each new discovery I find after spending hours of labor feels unique and special and something nobody else can do or has done.
I started to hate programming after realizing that I spent thousands of hours of my free time sitting in front of a computer instead of living like a normal person, missed out on a lot of things. So these days when I hear from someone that I should be excited to learn/code besides work in my spare time I want to hit that person.
I hate programming and I hate learning non-computer languages, too.
I only like science language and math language.
Whether it is spending hours finding the correct words and syntax to create a sentence in Python or C++ or Java that does something useful or spending hours finding the correct words and syntax to create a sentence in Russian, French, Chinese, Hungarian, etc just to say one useful thing, the amount of payoff, of benefit, is trivially insignificant compared to the effort.
With science and math, each new discovery I find after spending hours of labor feels unique and special and something nobody else can do or has done.
I started my first job 3 weeks ago and I'm amazed how good I feel, after 5 months of coding and homeschooling myself, they're going to pay me to do the same thing. this feeling is wonderful!!
Congrats!
How do you do it so fast, it's been a year, and coding felt like poorly cooked rice
oh man ... i was so hoping you would bring up this topic. theres so many great related but not direct programming videos like this i would watch for hours! this is the perfect youtube content for me
I've been a developer for like 15 years now, worked in both web and native mobile spaces. I fall pretty firmly into the camp of mostly just doing it for money. It's the most lucrative skill I have with the most job security, and in the modern world it feels like making any other decision is going to eventually bite you in the ass. I love making music, and would love to just sit around making songs all day but there's no real career path there in the same way there is for someone interested in coding. You don't just go to music school, find a recruiter and get a job. People will say it's just a "different lifestyle" but I think that's an oversimplification. The luck factor in getting gainful employment as a musician is way higher than being a software developer. I have a degree in audio engineering, thousands of hours experience writing mixing and recording my own songs, lots of industry knowledge about pro audio. Our society simply doesn't value those skills nearly as much as someone who can code. These careers that are a daily struggle to survive will also slowly destroy your passion for the thing you love. Being able to just code all the time and love it is a really lucky position to be in, because programming is a very stable and accessible career choice. I also love video games and have thought about getting into game programming many times, but again the gaming industry suffers from a lot of the same problems as the music industry where because it's a "fun and cool" place to be competition is high and it's a more stressful environment to be in than where I've ended up which is a much more relaxed environment with job security, a 401k and a pension. I suppose if I had to disagree with something it would be the sentiment of "you should follow your heart" when it comes to your career and choose a career because you love doing that thing. Others will maybe disagree but I think in our society, at least in America, picking the career you can do that nets you the most money is basically a requirement. Lots of people in my generation are "good with computers" and coding is a natural next step to make money off that skill. Almost the whole world runs on computers and software now and coding jobs have permeated basically every industry. If you look up the most stable careers right now, it basically comes down to doctors, finanical experts, trades like plumbing and IT / programming work. Maybe I'm just getting more pessimistic as I get older, but I really think that if you don't have any of those other skills but you're good with computers then you don't really have much of a choice if you want a stable income.
can't relate more
1:26 btw it's recorded in Kyiv, Poshtova square
I've come to learn after almost 15 years that I love to work on problems which I am passionate about, but they never overlap with the kinds of things businesses care about. So deep experience + little enthusiasm for business problems = I think I'm in the "i code for money because i have this skill" bucket.
I'm okay with this but it feels like most companies are not. I'm part time actor with the professional mask I wear to feign enthusiasm and stay employed.
Personally I love it as long as I get to stop when my official work hours are up and as long as everything extra happens because I'm into it. Exception for occasional crunches when deadlines are looming, but these have to be irregular. I appreciate that my team is full of people like this, lots of parents who are into coding but want to see their kids -> less of the startup hustle culture but still loads of heated discussions and excitement for new stuff as long as it doesnt break the codebase and ruins everyones plans for the evening!
Tbh one of the better videos in recent times, gj Theo
Really. Tbh lately it felt to me as he is trying more to "promote" tech/companies. This video is such a relief
@@mohitkumar-jv2bx But this one does not promote anything? I also hate the promotional videos but this is finally a decent one
I’m glad you made this video. Sometimes when I watch you I feel discouraged because I don’t have the same enthusiasm for code. I like programming and sometimes love it, but I can only do so much before burning out.
I’ve been able to swing and meet both sides. As you’ve mentioned I’ve lean on the the continuous learning side. However I love the 9-5ers. They helped me learn essentialism and that not keeping up with bleeding edge isn’t always the worst thing in the world. They’ve also helped me recognize balance between the bubble we can sometimes encapsulate ourselves in and the outside where at the end of the day, the minutia doesn’t matter in the long term. Shipping deliverable, dependable codebase does
Huh, not usually something that I would remark on a vid, but the stock footage at 1:26 was shot at my home town of Kyiv, Ukraine. As well, i think, but cannot confirm, as the old man behind the laptop following the skateboard guy. Feels nice somehow 😅
Thank you! Loving a person, a vocation, or even a thing, cannot be forced. Maybe over time, you may learn new things about someone/something which may cause you to fall in love. But, like all matters of the heart, you can't learn to love something as is. You're a human being. The heart will want what it wants.
It's ok not to care for programming, & just pay the bills, while focusing on stuff you really love, on your own time.
I've been programming in some shape or form for the last 15 years, I can says for me my excitement/passion comes in waves. I was in a funk and feeling a bit burnt out for about 3 years, but then like I'll find something like this channel that will get me excited again.
Great talk, really resonated with the part in the middle talking about the dichotomy of developers and how leaders should delegate work load based on this difference, not because of capability! But because of interest and motivation. Wish more managers knew this.
Great take Theo, I think being very open within your team about these topics is daunting, but the rewards are much better understanding of one another's boundaries. I think some developer's percieved lack-of-boundaries or 'balance' is partly because they are before all else, in love with solving the current problem at hand.
1:08 "This is what gets me up" - an example of a saying that shouldn't be shortened.
I hate programming and I hate learning non-computer languages, too.
I only like science language and math language.
Whether it is spending hours finding the correct words and syntax to create a sentence in Python or C++ or Java that does something useful or spending hours finding the correct words and syntax to create a sentence in Russian, French, Chinese, Hungarian, etc just to say one useful thing, the amount of payoff, of benefit, is trivially insignificant compared to the effort.
With science and math, each new discovery I find after spending hours of labor feels unique and special and something nobody else can do or has done.
I got a masters in computer science and after it I’ve only grown to hate it. I just don’t find it meaningful anymore.
I have heard the same thing from every best engineer, and there is one common answer I received: "We had no choice when we started, and now we are here."
I have to admit, I often heard from seniors that I needed to think and breathe programming to make it to their level. I made it to principal before being promoted to management, all while working 45 hours a week. Simply put, being a good engineer is about consistently embracing a set of principals that result in good product outcomes and then understanding that what you're doing is honing a craft. It's the understanding that you're responsible for what you say you'll build and what you actually deploy.
I'm not a guy who wants to spend 60 hours a week coding because it's fun; I want to put in my 40, build a decent product that makes the users happy and delivers profit to the business and then I want to go home and not be bothered for the rest of the week.
Great video. I go through phases where I don't want to do much and where I love it. I definitely lean on the do it for fun side though.
I love coding. I can't say that I'm excited about meetings, ego tripping managers, absurd deadlines, redefining the definition of done, etc
I definitely like learning new things in general so I try to learn more things about programming to help me improve. But I often find myself struggling to actually build things in the end since nothing really interests me and most problems that I have can be solved by some other tool that already exists. Having a job where you don’t like the tech stack you’re working with can also make programming seem more like job more than anything and you just want to get away from it once you’re done for the day.
I really enjoy programming and I really resonated with a lot of what you said, but while I think it’s okay to love programming and immerse yourself in it, you have to be able to walk away from it. If you’re so attached to it and you can’t let go of what you want programming to be, eventually programming is going to change in a way that might be something you hate. That change from loving your job to hating your job is a very tough transition, and has led to a lot of mid-life crises.
For a personal anecdote, my dad was an airline pilot pre 9/11. After all the dust settled and the drastic changes took effect in the industry, he felt like his job betrayed him. I don’t think he ever got over it.
I do love programming. For some reason I apparently hate - or rather struggle - doing work. Even (or especially?) if the work is for my own project. And that sucks. I find myself being unable to actually make something. I only do what work is necessary for my job and that's it. I struggle every day from the process that I know can be (and sometimes is) fun to me.
Thanks for your vids, Theo! They're awesome. I do feel I actually enjoy my profession from watching them.
It’s more of a three-way ven diagram between programming is just a job, programming is just a tool and programming itself is my jam.
Amen. I try not to let it bother me when people say that stuff. It takes all types, and not everyone is going to relate to their work in the same way.
Interesting point. I do relate to your experience of not expecting to like programming in the beginning. I honestly struggled in the begginning despite loving the thoretical computer science classes. But now, 5 years into the industry, I really enjoy it and I'm really good at it.
I also relate to how much I love the tech I'm working with (namely typescript) compared to how much I'll probably hate working with languages like java.
Absolutely love it
I like how I look when I program and how my screen looks from afar with code in it with the pretty colors. No but in all seriousness, it's a good question, I do hate it sometimes and I love it sometimes, but I struggle to do more than an extra hour of coding outside of work. I would love it more if I didn't have to do it for 8 hours a day I think. But I love the habits it has created on me on embracing long life learning, constant study and to use that on other areas as well.
Thanks for saying this Theo. I love Computer Science - not Software Engineering. I mean in college the theory stuff really clicked with me. Now that I’m in the industry, I don’t spend my free time playing with svelte or server components. I’ll occasionally try to learn some archaic languages like APL for fun, but nothing more.
This video made me feel like less of an imposter for not being super excited to code all of the time. I code all day at work, do my best, but when I get home I’m done. And I guess that’s ok :)
The little zooms go hard!
Last year i joined a bootcamp and join the tech industry after finishing it
I love programming and the feel of learning new things. However, when I get into the job i feel stressed bcoz im less capable than my teammates and catching up with them is stressing me out every second. Still, i loving programming and enjoying making my personal projects but genuinely feel lost to self improves since the scene is changing so drastically throughout the years and dk what to learn.
Basically me for my entire career.
I love to learn, experiment and drive ideas. As programer usually you work on very narrow topic in week basis. You are implementing things more than driving them. This usually leads to stay in a rather narrow tech stack and domain/topic. If you're a senior you can drive bit more. But I consider my self a holistic person, I like to see the whole picture. I think that goal justify the means. So why I'm doing something it is even more important that how. I worked as developer (implementing), architect (designing), researcher (figure out how to do new things), tech product mgt/owner. And I feel that I'm making real impact at a fast pace as product mgt/owner. I like some facets of being dev, arch, or researcher, but it was not enough for me.
My entire free time is spent on learning new techniques for software architecture, learning Rust and NixOS and ultra scaled backends, mathematics for functional programming, etc, etc.
I also struggle struggle relating with people who clock in, clock out and forget what a computer is.
Great video Theo 👏
Give it 20 years. Its so hard to keep the passion alive.
When I was in high school I either wanted to study physics or computer science. I had a friend back then who was coding already since age 13 and he said to me. "Most people who study cs are just kids who play computer games all day and they ultimately fail". This actually hit me hard because I was one of those spending any free minute playing computer games. And I didn't even know how to code back then so I thought everybody who wants to excel at the studies should already be coding for a few years (ofc this is bullshit xd). Fast forward I studied industrial engineering and was not motivated at all, it wasn't any fun. The bachelors degree took me 6 years (I was still playing too much computer games and all the drinking and smoking weed probably didn't help either). Then I somehow got interested in crypto back in 2016 and wrote my thesis on bitcoin. I spend a lot of time learning about cryptography and shit was exciting. I joined a few small projects and wanted to somehow contribute to the community. I started to look into javascript/node and built some small projects like hosting mining servers, websites, a pool for POS tokens etc. It was all so much fun. I was also trading a bit. My initial 500 EUR turned into 100k and for the first time I had this powerful thought: What would I like to do if money didn't matter for the next few years? I wanted to code! I had finished my bachelors degree and didn't felt like I would wanna do a masters in industrial engineering. I talked to the professors at uni and found out I could switch to business information systems for my masters with only doing one semester worth of credits in programming related topics. Picked data structures and algos, distributed systems, Java intro and some other stuff. Finally got introduced to python. In my masters I got excited about machine learning (realised crypto was actually a dead end, no real value creation). I stopped playing videos games, was already not smoking anymore. Most days were the same. Get up at 4am (not kidding here), hit the gym at 6am, the library at 9am. Would work on studies and afterwards watch machine learning courses till 9pm. Sleep. Repeat. Man was I flying through all these courses. Long story short:
Programming saved my life. I Love it, I love the instant feedback on every click and character I type, I love the field of ML/DL which I am currently working in. I just developed this passion for learning new stuff through my programming journey. I feel financially stable and just overall happy, which wasn't really the case for the whole course through my bachelors. Been working as a data scientist for more than 2 years now, doing POCs but also building production grade software and doing deployments, recently wanted to explore that very last piece of the puzzle which keeps me from starting my own business/app which is frontend engineering. Thanks Theo for all the great content
depends on the language and the project, sometimes i actually put in more hours just bc i want to put in more features than needed and make the project work better than required
I can't even imagine not having love for programming.
I'm sure it will wear off somewhat as I'm beginning to work just now, but still It fires me up when I solve the road blocks and I make something cool.
im both guys. they are not exclusive. i naturally understand code and i love it too.
I LOVE coding. But I can't seem to break into the field. It makes me sad.
I genuinely love programming. I do need to be challenged at all times, and keep doing new stuff.
I think a great life skill is being able to do a good job at something very boring/repetitive and not be drained. Helpful for those that enjoy and don't enjoy coding. When I'm solving a tough problem and get in the zone it's great. When I have to update the same line of code 1,000 times but in specific ways that a regex can't help then I can just turn off my brain and enjoy the monotony.
I used to, the interviews took it away though.
On Monday, I'm the super enthusiast. By Friday afternoon, it's a job. Regardless, I love my career, very thankful and blessed by God.
Triple Like!!!
Feeling understood and understanding others is as great to the other person as your video to your audience. 🙏
I have gotten to a point where I feel lost. I don't have the same passion for coding as people like yourself, and I feel myself stagnating. It is weird, because programming has pretty much been my life since I was 12. As soon as I got an actual job in the field, I completely lost interest. I'm trying to pick up this interest again, but I don't even know where to start. I'm a good programmer, I've piloted and created modules for my company that they've loved, but I don't really care for programming. I don't really like coding just for the sake of coding, so most projects bore me. I agree with the learning things for fun aspect, but maybe I'm just not learning programming the right way anymore, as I've stopped having fun. Any advice?
I enjoy the result of programming and the process of building functionality and solving the problems that come up along the way. I also get some satisfaction out of refactoring code to be more concise or efficient. If that's our definition of programming then I enjoy it. As for typing the code out, not especially, sometimes because of syntax errors and differences between languages I don't enjoy it. But I wouldn't expect a painter to specifically enjoy the feeling of using the brush either.
nowadays everyone expects devs to puke out code
My relationship with Miss Programming is toxic and complicated... sometimes I love her, sometimes I really really hate her, most of the time I don t understand her, but at the end of the day she's the one who pays the bills so I can't break up with her...
Yeah I love it but I really struggle to do almost any coding outside of work
i only recently got my love for the craft back after switching from 40h to a 20h part time employment.
I'm just here to have confirmation that I don't need to love coding. I think it's OK, but if it wasn't for my job. I don't think I'd ever do it.
It basically depends WHAT you are programming and if you can manage your time - not overworking.
I started with RuneScape private servers in Java about 17 years ago when I was 13. Oh, good old times
I love being a developer, and it helps also working for a badass company
My boi knocking it out of the park with this video!!! I'm guilty and now humbled.
Interestingly enough, once I landed a job where I felt like I belonged and the pay was high enough, I stopped grinding as much afterwork hours because I wasn't always looking for a better job in the back of my mind. Turns out that was my biggest motivator and I just do coding cause I'm decent at it. I still like to keep up to date w/ things I enjoy, but I try and live a more balanced life now.
I totally can relate. I love what I do. For me it feels like a riddle day after day.
Exactly.it’s the projects that are exciting. Coding for itself is only exciting while you’re still learning. And most jobs want you to know already, not still be learning
If I didn't love programming, there is zero chance I could spend the time and effort it takes to learn it. I'm impressed by people who have learned programming when they didn't enjoy it.
I'm moving towards mid to senior role in my career right now, I've always loved programming but man I feel like I'm starting to lose patience over some stuff
I enjoy programming my own things and I'm always striving for new technologies that makes my job easier and more fun, so generally I'm willing to spend some extra time for programming after work.
But in work I hate programming so much, due to amount of legacy stuff where there is always no time to rewrite (so I try to do it partially in each task) and amount of stress it creates because you need to always ship as fast as possible
It's interesting. I program for fun but when I do it I get a tingling feeling in my hands. When I was younger and learning to play guitar I would get the same feeling. When I code and I see something come to life I get the same feeling, and I'm actually writing a story for a game I'm going to develop and launch over the next few years--and when I'm writing that story I again get that feeling.
There's something about creating something from absolutely nothing that's really interesting to me. Maybe interesting isn't the right word. I don't know. It kind of causes a vibration in my hands and it just feels right. I feel like people need to find what causes that vibration in their own life and then try to find a way of monetizing it so they can do it for a living.
I feel like I am in the middle of this. I like programming because I like to do what I want. But when it comes to programming for something else, like a job..., it's something else. I like to develop my own website to implement the vision I have of it, but I hate developing for someone else to implement stupid things that no one would notice except 2/3 colleagues in the company.
In school we had a math lesson about "construction descriptions" as part of geometry. I loved that topic because it was about precisely and concisely describing how to create a shape with a limited amount of given parameters (e.g. a triangle but you only have 1 side length and 2 angles). When I learned about programming about a year later, I immediately felt the same joy. The things I program today are mostly boring, but I still love the act of programming. It's something I can do to relax.
programming was a hobby of mine for seven years before deciding to take it as a career for life, I never hated it even once
Sometimes I think that my life is so boring that I get a dose of dopamine when some boring ass code of mine compiles successfully.
his mustache giving him philosophical thoughts, I'd like to have it too 🧔
Software Engineering is much more than programming. Gathering requirements, estimations, teamwork, communications, delegation, planning etc. And programming maybe 50% of it, if you experienced dev.
I enjoy it but once time work is over I just don't think about it anymore
Im 30 years old and i´ve only picked coding about November from last year, at first I picked it up as a potential source for a job but in the end I ended up really enjoying it, the things coding enables me to do are amazing. I am not particularly good at it, but I feel I can pick up a new language rather quickly. There only a few things that I dont enjoy about coding, specifically systems programming (its hard AND boring), and stuff like Rust or Go, i prefer something that is statically typed and GC´ed like C# or Java more than I like Python or Javascript.
And you know, my dad is also a programmer, and arguably he is better at it than I am, he is more disciplined and focused than I am, but I do not see passion for it that I see on myself, to him ti really feels like he´s just doing a job, he does not share my excitement when I find something new and interesting despite having worked on the field for some years now.
While I respect my dad´s ability and competency, I wouldn´t be able to live as he does, working on something he doesn´t seem to particularly enjoy, ti would feel like I was betraying myself to something I was not. But I dont judge him, its something he found that gives him sustainable income and something he´s rather good at.
In general I like programming, but I do like more to work on my little pet projects rather than what I do at my job (I make fullstack apps for myself but on the clock I maintain a React Component SDK project for a big food delivery company based in Chicago ;))
I hate hobby programming, but I enjoy being abe to get better at my job for better opportunities and learning about things that I actually have some interest in. I think some things in the SWE space in general are really interesting to talk about that I'll watch videos on in my spare time but I don't necesarily always care to watch an extremely technical video abot the newest feature that just came out for a tool that I use.
I genuinely think a good programming job will give developers the ability to be able to learn things while on the job, as having the responsibility to have to learn a bunch of things outside of work as well is a really easy way to lead to burnout. There are so many youtube creators in particular over the last couple of years that I've notice will go through that burnout trend and start to push back on the impossible idea of spending every waking moment talking about the new SWE trend. A job should fuel you to pursue the interests that you want to do when you clock out of that job. If that's learning more about programming, that's cool as well, but no one should be shamed if they don't want to spend their hobby time learning more about coding every single day for the rest of their life.
I can see this. Good points
It's a love hate relationship. Sometimes it's a pile of shit and its god damn awful. Othertimes it's bloody great and you feel ontop of the world
Coding is great. But whole community around it is so toxic.
I hate it when people force their opinions.
I don't like programming, but I love learning and building stuff. I feel like programming is just a tool for me, and I really enjoy learning about new tools and how to use them.
Do I actually love using a hammer? No, but I love what I can do with it
I love programming, even when I worked at a job I *HATED* I always tried to do my best job, get better, faster and more technical.
I enjoyed the coding part, not the ever changing, bullshit client requirements. Now I work at a very fulfilling position I absolutely go ham at it. I am currently building a PaaS at my leisure and I think I spend about 12/14 hours a day in front of my computer. It's definitely not just a job for me and I cannot imagine not doing it "after hours".
I like to work with people who are equally or ever more passionate than I am because with a combination of this + hard work real magic can happen. Worth to add that I am austistic and a lot of people I've met that were in the "extremely passionate" category were also on the spectrum, I don't think there's a pattern here but this is just something I've noticed.
That being said - I understand the value of people who are doing it because it pays well. It's not surprisng and I think most people do and I would like to thank them because programming would absolutely suck for me if I wasn`t passionate. There's just so much new stuff and keeping yourself relevent can be really challenging. Thought it's really rare that right people get the right kind of jobs (the situation that Theo described with unit testing/implementing new library), going forward I will definitely think more about it.
It definitely depends. I absolutely love programming for things i genuinely care about or have passion for. However, i like making shit work - i don't like making it look good. That's why I'm mostly in back-end and embedded systems. I used to do full-stack but every time i have to touch UI/UX i just die on the inside and i have realized I'd be happier not working on front end. I also heavily prefer to work on stuff that can actually make some small amount of meaningful change in the world.
I used to work at a startup that used Bluetooth sensors and a small embedded computer on a belt. It could capture movement data from sensors all over your lower body to figure out how you walk, how you can improve walking, better running economy n shit. Was fun stuff to work on and i saw some people be able to run again after getting major surgery in their knees or legs etc and told they will probably never fully recover. It was fulfilling.
However, if i had a fortune i would probably never work for a boss again, I'd much rather just spend all my time on open source or maybe my own business instead if i had an idea worth pursuing.
to add to this (i paused at 0:25 seconds so i didn't watch any further) It's also very normal to clock out after 8 hours here. But that only goes for work related stuff. I often still work on personal projects at home for the rest of the evening, but I'm not gonna stay in the office for much much longer. However, that might just be a Netherlands thing, we do have relatively healthy work culture here so you're not expected to do unpaid overtime or whatever horror stories i have heard from friends over in the US.
I'd be doing programming if I had a job in the field or not, it just has always come up in whatever I was doing. Back when I was doing construction and design stuff I was making plugins for Autodesk Revit, when studying control systems I made some utils to graph stuff you'd do in Matlab, but in python. Now I'm working on network automation for a large network carrier, doing mostly heavily linted and checked glue code, and I'm probably going to be in charge of some web projects to interact with customers. It's not programming for me, it's the solving extremely concrete, complex puzzles the part that sucks me in, I had a similar thing for maths at school, only that the feedback loop is slower because there's no compiler errors in math.
When you mentioned skateboarding and then showed stock longboard footage I died inside RIP
I love programming enough to want to learn stuff out of work. But if I do, it has to be serve my goals not my jobs goals.
This is how I'm trying to keep a healthy work life balance.
I'm not saying those goals can't align, but I have to get something more out of it than this will help me get a payrise.
I wouldn't say that there are only 2 types of programmers, rather that there is a spectrum. I was really excited about programming while I was learning it back at uni, since after years of working I don't really get excited anymore, it's just a job and I don't do any code outside of work. However I still keep an eye on new stuff, sometimes watching tech UA-cam, so I know what's going on in the JavaScript world in general what trends are.
I like guitar since a child, but I regretted that I didn't put more focus on it on early years, because it wasn't "a real job" need to study, and I did my best. Actually I spent my teenage years simping😂 I wish I just played guitar & write music more. Yeah but from all of the "normal job" fields, the least interesting one is Computer Science and programming for me, definitely not a lawyer.
Also NGL, the one colleague who did it totally just for the job, is one of the greatest engineer I know, no bs, just do things necessary and be productive
This is spot on 100% after 30 years programming you do have 2 camps, it's its only in the five years that I realise that and most importantly embrace it. While there doing that I can enjoy the new ai space and then pass that knowledge on. If if they are not bothered then don't worry your the one who enjoys it and know that they are happy so am I.
Yeah loving it helps a lot and I prefer people who love their work and are ambitious.
No I need the fucking money though. Give me the money.
It's a great question. I used to love programming. I'd like to blame company politics, processes pushed down by management, and arrogant coders. I should have been more proactive to find people and organization I was more in line with. But coding itself I used to love.
I hate meeting, agile, scrum, software developers and the corporate jobs, but I love programming.
Do I like programming? depends on how much troubleshooting I've done lately.
I find that I love programming what I want to and hate what I don't want to. Usually, when I find I hate what I'm doing, I can probably sit back and find a way to turn it into something I want to do though.
I love making things, and programming is simply a medium in my opinion. Clean code & good software architecture is something that can be learned along the way but you can't lose focus on the result you want to achieve. Same things goes in companies I guess.
My worst dev nightmares come from Clean Code and whatever other religion Bob Martin has been pushing lately, absolutely dreadful. I rather have dirty code
I personally love coding, but I totally understand when you say some people hate it but it has nothing to do with how good they are. I learned this from a colleague who literally swears at his screen every 3 seconds, looking like he's going through some kind of torture, but the dude is pretty good at anything code wise and actually much more versatile than me. I guess it's just part of his ritual