Grumman vs. NYC Potholes: The Fight to Fix the Flxible 870 Bus [History of Buses]
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- Note: Many of the images in this video are from
www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Bus_Ph...
Not too long ago, I published a video about the New York Grumman bus crisis, in which the New York City Transit Authority pulled its entire fleet of 851 Grumman buses off the streets due to concerns about cracked A-frames and other issues.
Since that video did so well, surpassing expectations, I decided to do a follow-up video. This time, we go back to 1981, and we learn how Grumman used one of the worst streets in Brooklyn to test and develop a new A-frame for the 870, as well as a new frame for the upcoming Metro bus.
It's a fight to fix the 870!
Additionally, from viewer Glenn Brown, a New York City bus expert:
The MTA was so impressed with the Flxible Metro that they placed an order for them in 1995. Unfortunately, Flxible went bankrupt and could not fulfill the order. By then Flxible was owned by General Automotive of Ireland. NYC had 2 Metro demos. I rode one on Queens Surface. The other ran on Green Bus Lies routes. They were outfitted the MTA 2x1 blue hard seats.
#buses #newyorkcitytransit #rapidtransit - Авто та транспорт
I live in Central Ohio and grew up riding those Flxible buses. I remember a few notable things about them: any time you hit a bump, the whole bus rattled terribly. And most of the 1980s era buses COTA had were two cycle, leaving behind a giant plume of black smoke wherever they went. A bit sad to see the Delaware plant closed in the 90s but they were horribly outdated by then. It’s quite phenomenal how much better today’s Gillig and New Flyer models are
Thank you for watching and for your comment/info about the COTA buses!
Gilligs rattle too. It's almost amusing honestly
What made these videos popular was the NYC nostalgia along with a situation that people remember. If you continue this NYC/NYS "look back" theme, I assure you'll have a lot of views and subscribers. Thank you for the video and the last Grumman video. They were engaging. 😊
Thank you so much for your feedback, and for your very positive comment! I'm very glad you liked these videos! And thank you very much for watching!
The Flxibles turned out to be too flexible.
LOL, thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Those buses a/c wasn't no joke .
The irony
Growing up as a child I loved those buses when Academy 22 Hillside before NJ Transit took over the line and NJ Transit plus a few private bus carriers used to run through Jersey City &:Hoboken.
Thank you for your comment and for your memories of Academy Bus Lines!
@@JeffreyOrnstein you're welcome
Good old Bus World,and Ed Stauss,as editor! I had more than a few of my photos published by that magazine! They had excellent repro,and and good quality paper,so you got a real quality magazine! Thanks for a reminder of better times! Thank you 😇 😊!
Thank you for watching and for your comment!! I once had one issue of Bus World, and it was a great magazine! I wish I was able to get more of them, but they were hard to find. Unfortunately, there has not been any equivalent magazines since!
Awesome, thanks for posting
Thank you for watching and for your very positive comment!
Awesome and informative video on the Flxible buses from the past! I have a suggestion: I think you should do a video on what happened to the Flxible Corporation and why it went out of business. Now I'm your new fan and a big transit fan! Sending you greetings from Miami!
Inquiring minds wanna know this too
I'm sure the broken frames didn't help
Thank you for watching and for your very positive comment! Good suggestion, I will do research on Flxible, and maybe do a video on it in the future!
China joint venture and General Automotive deciding to pull out of the European and American market. Gillig has the result as the basis of the Low Floor.
We at Queens Transit Corp & Queens Surface Corp never had a problem with any of the 870 Grumman Buses, I loved Driving them
That's really great to hear - that it ran great on Queens Transit! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
They do have a unique feature some 12 years ago one can see this inside the bus terminal it's Iconic leaning because New Jersey Transit kept theirs running all the way to 2014 or 2013. If you side by side the museum bus with it's New Jersey Transit version the latter is regeared for Highway running because you have bus routes like 76X to Hackensack via Route 21 South Orange to New York 107 via Interstate 78 and 280 108 to Newark via I-95 lower Manhattan via I-78 120 bus.
Really excellent overview overall
Thank you for watching and for your very positive and interesting comment about the NJT buses!
The MTA was so impressed with the Flxible Metro that they placed an order for them in 1995. Unfortunately, Flxible went bankrupt and could not fulfill the order. By then Flxible was owned by General Automotive of Ireland. NYC had 2 Metro demos. I rode one on Queens Surface. The other ran on Green Bus Lies routes. They were outfitted the MTA 2x1 blue hard seats.
Thank you, Glenn, for your superb knowledge of NYC buses! I want to add this to the video's description and will credit you!
They only started stress - analysis of bus chassis in 1984! Are you kidding? I'am never riding public transit again.
LOL, thank you for watching and for your comment!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Cheers.
I never knew of the frames cracking up on the 870 buses until transit agencies decommissioned them from their fleets and Flxible permanently hitting the brakes in 1996.
I rode on some of them in Santa Cruz County, California until they were decommissioned in 1998.
Wish they lasted longer in New York! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
At least GMC knows how to make a bus for potholes. They are based in Detroit after all. Visit Detroit and ride the People Mover. Closest thing we'll ever get to flying buses.
Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The neoplan AN440 also had similar problems but it wasnt as highly publicized.
Thank you for watching and for your comment!!
I loved that bus looks 😳
Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The Flxible Metros started to run on the Westchester County Bee-Line starting early in 1990. They were successful. They ran until the middle of 2006. I believe that there were no major issues with them during their term of service in Westchester County.
Thank you for watching and for your comment about Bee Line Grummans!
Goodnight sir. Thank-you for the information about Grumman flexibles Test program on Quicy Street and Troop ave in the 1980's. The Grumman should've lasted much longer than then did in the MTA. But they surely did in Queens Private Bus lines Green Line Bus Jamaica Bus Queens Transit/Stineway Transit and TriBoro Coach. And MSBA did you know that Some of Flxble Metro had last 1999 in MSBA I think that Grumman flxble had last a while out there also. If the MTA didn't decide to scrap the whole Grumman flexibles Bus fleet Grumman would probably still make Bus to this day maybe .
Thank you for watching and for your comment about the Grummans and the private operators!
Loved 😇
Thank you for watching and for your comment!
There are streets where I live in northern Illinois that would have shown up any possible flaw in any vehicle that ever drove down it. By the way, what happened to the first "e" in Flxible?
Thank you for watching and for your comment! When the owner of the Flxible Corporation tried to get the name 'Flexible' patented, it was rejected, and so he was able to do it by taking out the 'e', thereby creating the name Flxible!
I watched that video, you're welcome! Well I didn't finish it, why I'm here... Give me the skinny!!! 😂
Thank you for watching and for your comment!
One thing about those buses, their a/c's aint no joke
Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I remember thinking that they were like Star Wars to me. The display on the front and side where the bus was going would change where the old ones had a roll the driver would turn until he found the sign he needed. Also the rear door was wide and had an extendable platform to pick up people in wheelchairs and that the seats in the back would fold up and the wheelchairs would lock into the floor to keep them from rolling around while driving. Too bad they turned out to be junk.
Thank you for watching and for your comment about the Grummans!
Grumman, if it doesn’t break itself, it will burn itself.
LOL, thank you for watching and for your comment!
But I LOVE the Flxible Metro. Remember the in-process Metro-E build that resulted in an extra Orion 5 order?
Yeah, we got 1996 Orion 5.501 Diesels as a result. #631-680. They had no spec changes from their 1995 counterparts.
Thank you for watching and for your comment about the Metro!
Around the late 80s Baltimore had an almost exclusive Flexable Metro fleet they seemed to be good as far as I could tell but I was only a passenger
Thank you for watching and for your comment about the Baltimore Flxibles!
I guess the problems were worked out by the time the MTA in Maryland started ordering the Flxibles. I remember that much of the fleet in the early-mid '80s were made up of either the GMC/Flxible"New Look" or GMC RTS models. The buses were functional and, for the RTS & (late '80s) Flxibles, comfortable for the hours I used to burn getting across town.
@@carthellkelly1599Didn't you guys have Neoplan AN440s as well?
@@dodge1515 Neoplan was the next contractor the MTA bought buses from after Flxible went out-of-favor. Not sure whether they were AN440s (likely that and some 26 or 30', and 60' articulating buses). The most memorable "feature" of the buses that ran during the very late '80s-mid '90s was a horrible vibration/rattle that overtook the interior of the buses when stopped. It was as if no motor mounts or dampening materials were used between the engine and the frame of the vehicle. It definitely was a personal endurance test for a number of years. God knows how the drivers could stand the environment for hours, every day.
@@dodge1515 actually they had a small fleet of maybe 10 around 1986 I think they were AN 440 but after Fixable went out of business they got some NABI busses for a few years
The reason Grumman Flxible 870 had cracked a frames because they were using cheaper steel so Flxible had to take those 600 plus buses rebuilt them and sold them to NJT corporation in 1986
Thank you for watching and for your very interesting comment!
They should of used the streets of Staten Island which were known (even in car magazines) as the worst in the U.S.
Thank you for watching and for your interesting comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I worked for Red and Tan Bus as a mechanic and driver at the time all this was happening.
PalmTran's 950 series were barking slow
Thank you for watching and for your comment about PalmTrans!
In NJ they were slow, and there were hills that they sounded and felt like they wouldn't make it
Pierce Transit...
The Metro is one of the best looking transit busses to me. Only thing I didn't like was the fake wood grain interior. Transit busess nowadays just look plain and generic.
Thank you for watching and for your comment! Faux wood grain...how 70's, LOL!
...Seriously.. they could have simply gotten in touch with FIAT in Italy, which had been making good, sturdy, reliable buses for ever for the entire country... and NY roads are in no way worse than Italian roads!!!
LOL, thank you for watching and for your comment! Oddly, the NYCTA tried other European buses, but never an Italian one. Don't know why....
@@JeffreyOrnstein yeah, who knows. Thing is, our roads are awful - they beat the shit out of our busses, still our old FIATs ( now Iveco) kept going.. They were sturdy and super reliable. They could put up with the potholes, the mad traffic, the intense summer heat, as well as the crazy crowds...
Carris had 110 470.10.20 buses (3001-3110, bodied by Caetano). They were known for having a series of defects and malfunctions (broken wheelwells, malfunctions in steering, exhaust, terrible engine, door malfunctions) in their time at the Miraflores depot routes (1983/84-2001).
These buses absolutely sucked arse, being considered the worst buses ever purchased by then. Lisbon had potholes, and it seems that these buses did not have the same strength as the Volvo and MAN (and later, Mercedes) buses.
Bus dont get enough Love in the US. Will you ever do a vid on the Semi-trailer buses?
Thank you for watching and for your comment! And thanks for the suggestion - I will look into it as I like those buses as well - if there's enough info, I may eventually do a video!
Why didn't they just fix the pot holes??
Thank you for watching and for your comment....given all the taxes we pay in New York, fixing the things that need to be fixed are the lowest priority, LOL.
I really do miss these Flexibles and also the 1980s GMC T8H203 RTS #3134
These other buses well, they are ok for the time, but the GMC and the Grumman were the ones I grew up on and loved them.
Thank you for watching, and for your comment!
One of those pictures of the Flxible busses you posted its picture was one of the buses I rode on in Menlo Park California next to the Menlo Train Station.
My Dad was a full-time long runner for the 22 El Camino Real line from Menlo Park to San Jose Eastridge.
I knew many of the drivers at Sant Clara Country Transit back then, now it's (VTA) Valley Transit Authority.
Thank you for watching and for your interesting comment about the VTA!
One story I have heard is that when Grumman bought Flxible from Rohr they thought that the new bus design was ready to go into production, and didn't know about the issues that didn't appear until the busses went into service.
Thank you for watching and for your comment - you may be right, as Grumman bought an already-designed bus...and left it at that!