The Slow Decay: How Plastic is RUINING Vintage Sports Cars!
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- Опубліковано 20 лис 2023
- As the plastic ages in this 1985 C4 Corvette it is causing lots of problems and frustrations. These older cars are proving they are not as easy to work on as we once thought. 🛍️🛒 Don't forget to check out @MrsWizardsWays and her EBAY AUCTIONS (ends 11/29/23): www.ebay.com/usr/davidthecarw... 🛒🛍️
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#corvette #corvettelife #carrepair #carwizard #carmechanic #autorepairshop #coupe #chevy #vette #waterpump #windowrepair #sportscar #sportscars #80s #80scars #c4 #c4corvette #corvettec4 #classiccars #classiccar #automobile #automotive - Авто та транспорт
If you're not doing your own work.... don't buy an old car.
Or be comfortable buying the best example possible and know where the best shop in town is. See if they are selling stock in the company so you can get a return on that money spent.
Agreed. A water pump on an 85 corvette is not hard to do. Just takes a little more time
Yea anytime you get a 3 hr bill to change a horn fuse, you may have an issue lol
Nah, I rather just pay someone to fix it. Don’t have joy in working on cars anymore. Just like driving them.
C4 Corvettes are generally easy to work on and parts are readily available. Many of them upgraded. Perfect for a young enthusiast who wants to work on his own car. Don’t buy one if you must farm out the work. They make good father/son projects. I like to try to look on the bright side of things.
When I think of older cars being easier to work on I think of cars 10 to 20 years older than this one.
and exclude vettes.
yes, and not corvettes
Back in the day to an old timer means 50’s and 60’s not 80’s. An old timer would be the first to admit that plastic was crap.
Yeah...honestly
C3 and C2 vettes were as easy to work on as mom and pops sedan. I owned and worked on both.
I think it’s important to make a distinction between generations of cars. Post-war cars built up through the early ‘70s are pretty easy to work on if you have access to the parts. Once your start getting into the early smog cars & early computer controls, then they start getting tricky…
The 80's to mid 90's were overall bad for cars that weren't japanese.
Yeah, that's a big IF. Also, I'm done with fiddling with carburetors and distributors. Glad those are gone now.
I'm good at working on the tricky ones.
I started working in a garage in 1981, the very first year for cars with ECU's and yes, those early one's were absolutely horrible and I don't care what anyone says the newer cars are easier to work on than them, over the year's the engineer's definitely took feedback from the mechanics and have simplified the systems, those early through mid 80's computer controlled engine's had by far the most amount of vacuum hoses on an engine than anything before or since, open the hood and take the air cleaner off and it looked like spaghetti all over the place, there was so many you had to tag them if you were putting intake gaskets on something or doing some kind of a job like pulling the head's where it required you to pull the intake, if you didn't tag them guaranteed you'd get a couple mixed up that'd cause problems when you put it back together, now you look under the hood of a car and it's like the 60's as far as vacuum lines with them only having 3 or maybe 4.
Younger people don't believe me when I tell them there were actually ECU cars that had carburetors on them, most domestic cars from 81 to 85 actually had computer controlled carburetors on them, they were a real nightmare to, undoubtedly the hardest era of cars to work on.
Yeah but they are junk , rust buckets and overweight boats
"horn doesn't blow, neither does the driver" lol
I might have missed that
I heard it and was confused by it 😂
So many questions.. Why does the driver no longer blow? Did he ever? Will he again? Why does the Wizard know the driver no longer blows?
Hahaha Hahaha Hahaha Hahaha Hahaha Hahaha
The horns did blow.
They blew fuses.
I just got my 85' Corvette, and this has given me a lot of good ideas and places to start on my restoration. 195k miles and $2500, runs beautifully.
It is so refreshing to see younger ACTUAL MECHANICS rather than the typical parts replacers that exist most places!👍👍 there is a big difference between mechanics and MECHANICAL ENGINEERS….
We say in the UK. Main Dealers employ fitters, proper garages employ mechanics
hes like 45...
@@myrusEWright? Dude looks older than me (40).
@@myrusEW 35, I’m not that old yet! 😂
@@GrimesGaragewassup popz
My most excellent Vette mechanic (Mark@Titus-Will Caddy/Buick/Chevy in Olympia, WA) when asked by yours truly what is the most difficult Vette version to work on he instantly replied C4 due to electrical concerns
Very surprised to see an actual fuse hidden behind the dash panel. All fuses should be easily accessible for replacement.
No fuses should exist. There is fuse box in a Tesla.
💯 I agree. Fuses prevent fires (as reinforced by another comment here 😆).
That specific fuse was part of the security sytem. The horns sound and headlights flash. The door locks engage the alarm and are also prone to fail.
so the thief cant disable the horns when the anti theft alarm goes off.
put it behind a locked glove box.@@ScreamingEagleFTW
I am generally anti plastic myself as well, Mr. Wizard. But in this application, it saved weight and lasted almost 40 years. That is well past the warranty period.
warranty period lmfao
Yes but those track style regulators were slow as hell 😂too
I hope you are not referring to the car as a whole... 😅
yeah to give some props to plastic, it doesn't rust out, a 20 yr old merc of mine just started showing some wild patches bubbling up on every wheel arch. living in a wet colder country hasn't done it well :( Engine & interior is solid but the bodyworks gonna be a write off for its value.
It's a corvette....the entire car is plastic.
Grimes is a huge asset to Omega! Great work! 😊
Many cars have power windows that use plastic clips and even rollers. Almost all eventually fail when one or more of those parts break from old age. On my Jeep Grand Cherokee every single one of those powered windows eventually failed.
@@Notfiveo0 still.. he’s a huge asset!
My dad has his 1985 corvette since 1986 and I remember working a ton on it growing up. Finding parts are starting to be hard to find. One upgrade I recommend is replacing the plastic gear for the pop up headlights.
or at least buying them and putting them aside, for the day you have to replace.
On a car that old they probably been replaced once or twice already, if you’re going to do it shell out the extra bucks for the metal ones.
The nylon gear in the headlight motor rarely fails. There are three nylon bushings adjacent to the gear that disintegrate.
A fairy easy fix with no special tools.
I’ve been working on car’s since 1983, even went to college for auto-mechanics where I learned OBD1 diagnostics and now working on OBD2 car’s. They was even teaching us computer programming, as part of automotive repair. Have seen everything from metal gears, plastic and fiber gears. And yes older car’s are way easier to work on, but by older I mean pre-1980’s. What made and makes most of those cars easier to work on, is the fact there was so much more room to get to the parts. When auto manufactures started jamming stuff into car’s like a hoarder, bent on consuming space that’s when car’s got harder to work on.
After the consume all the available space, they then cover everything in plastic beauty covers....
I have had 3 C4 Corvettes . Currently have an 86 with the 4+3 trans . If you own a C4, you need to be mechanically inclined at minimum . Helps to have 40 years experience like me. You gotta be willing to learn, research and tinker . You will need an FSM . That water pump? Yeah, I've done that on my 86 , I also bypassed and eliminated all that pollution bs on the front of the motor , car runs better than it ever did . True non cat duals on it as well.
I had an 89 6 speed 25 years ago . Did complete headgasket job on that one in a weekend . Was just a bare long block in the the engine bay by the time it was torn down . I hear ya on the brackets on top of brackets lol . Things you never thought would need to come off , have to come off . It takes dedication to own an old Vette like these , its a labor of love , and anger . An LS swap is not a bad idea for these cars lol.
I remember in the mid 90's when I was in high school, car people complained about how all these newer vehicles were computerized, and eventually almost all repairs would have to be done at the dealership, pretty much making private garages a thing of the past. Fast forward 30 years and it's the same talk all over again, meanwhile, early 2000s vehicles are some of the easiest to repair while being mostly reliable.
Thanks for the great video. One point, when us old guys say they were easier to work on, we mean cars built 20 years or more before this one.
Exactly! No AC, no power anything!
Exactly...an '85-'86 is old chronologically, but in the car world, in this context, it is not...
Plastics repair is going to be the new DIY/collector skill. It’s like that book from 1986 “How to cast small metal and rubber parts” where the author creates his own bushings and weatherstripping. Not economical. More for enthusiasts.
not econmical? you can 3d print carbon fiber for nothing these days. as long as you do your own work
That would take a lot of work but it's doable. I kinda doubt many people would want to pay for plastic parts to be made. Only those who didn't care about the cost.
Personally I'd take the broken parts, cut and paste them into the original shape and scan them. Then either rapid prototype them or make a master plug and silicon molds if there was enough volume.
@@thomasandrews9355I was gonna say but plastic parts need modling and expensive equipment etc but you are right, 3D printed parts might be a viable solution. FYI tho the carbon fiber printed parts aren't actual CF, like it's plastic reinforced CF but yeah still good option!
@@TheMidnightNarwhal a key thing is longevity, so has to be a strong material. They originally used injection molding.
3D scanning is coming down in cost, hopefully in the near future there will be low cost options to scan and then print a part in a stronger engineering grade material like polycarb, or fiber reinforced nylon. The options do exist today but they can be kinda costly.
The horn that was drawing too much current would have had resistance that was too low (the opposite of what was reported) which caused the extra current draw. Remember V=IR so if V stays the same (12V) then I will rise as R becomes smaller. If I had to speculate what happened, it would be that the insulation breaking down in the winding and effectively reducing the number of independent turns reducing the resistance.
I noticed this as well! I wonder if he just misspoke or if there's a short somewhere else blowing the fuse
I was specifically looking in the comments to see if someone commented on this error.
Ohm my!!
@@humbertovallejr ha, ha, ha
I caught it as well and was wondering if he was talking about conductance.Actually I figured they don't do enough of that type of work and probably got the term confused.
I have a 90s car and its been a nightmare with plastics decaying
Yep,91 Coup DeVille all plastic below the chrome trim is rotted by the sun, and Good luck finding replacements. Especially a Coup.
@@dionrau5580 That's why you spend a little more and buy cars from this era that have been kept in a garage. Saves you a ton of trouble and money down the road. The sun destroys a lot more than just the plastics. F's up all the electronics too. Ruins the seats, the dash, the paint, etc, etc, etc...
Lot like my 93 cougar
We deal with the same thing in the retro computer industry, Car Wizard. As these cast plastics decay, there isn't much that can be done to restore them, and even if you find NOS parts, it's not guaranteed they will be any better than the ones you're taking out.
I remember about five or so years ago, I ran across a video where a dude was in a junkyard getting an ecu for a 2nd gen Explorer because Ford stops supporting cars after about ten years. He was saying something along the lines of; at some point cars [around that era] will just end up inoperable because key components can't be had. Not much of a case today with all the standalones, but I understood what he was getting at.
we're getting to the point where people will be able to fabricate parts from castings or using 3d printing. all is not lost, just requires demand and effort.
Time to start building an open library of 3D scans and re-implementations of old plastics and castings. 3D printing is already viable for small parts and the tech is getting better all the time.
@@ItsDaJax Stuff that will probably be hard to get in the future is gonna be post-2015 era when infotainment and BCM systems became standard on all but the most stripped down fleet and poverty trim levels. An ECM is a pretty generic thing, it runs an engine and not much more; a BCM is very specific to a model, and even if the physical hardware is shared across models the firmware or setup is different. Could it be re-implemented? Sure. Will someone expend the effort to do it? Pretty unlikely unless it's a very special car with a lot of fans and a particular problem with BCMs.
I remember having to unbolt a bunch of engine accessories just to get at the water pump. When I worked on cars my boss's business like every other was starting to get into car computer diagnostics. The GM mechanics were getting proper schooling on that while the independent garages couldn't. I saw that coming and decided that the $4.50@hr pay wasn't good enough so I jumped ship and started my trucking career plus the pay was soooooo much better.
I hear you on not re-using the old water pump, that it would probably leak not long after working on it...but, things are becoming a bit different nowadays...the Chinese water pump you buy at O'Reilly's, Autozone, Carquest, and even Napa now, may well leak on you not long after you install it. That is the reason I have started re-using old OEM parts often if they seem to function well, look to be in good condition, as they may well outlast the replacement...
correct and some of them have been replaced since the car was new but was replaced when good quality genuine GM parts were still available. A low mileage/use genuine GM water pump would be better than a new chinese one in my opinion.
I had a working water pump replaced because they already had the timing belt off. That new pump failed and I wonder if I should have left the OEM one in there
its a toss up. Unless you have a previous owner receipt of a replaced water pump at a dealership with genuine GM parts. its a toss up. @@amarsta
As others have mentioned, if you do your own repairs, you can decide which parts to replace & when. Car Wizard just doing right by the customer by trying not to create a bigger problem later on, but you don't always have to replace everything.
I love way the engine looks in the C4 coolest thing when you pop the hood.
Yep. And the TPI intake looks better than it works.
The new guy is a really good knowledgeable mechanic. Congratulations for the hiring wizard!
Back in the 90's I used to work for the guy who invented those plastic window regulators. He invented them when he worked at GM in the late 70's and by the mid to late 80's he lost his job at GM because of the warranty issues with those things.
Many people would have been in the chain to approve the "invention"...
most unfair to him if he was given parameters to work within...e.g. cheap plastics etc...
LOL finally an engineer that got held accountable. Love to hear it!
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq absolutely, the guy i am referring to is the one who was pressing for and championed the use of this specific style, his name is on the patent. He worked the first tape drive system before this one and after leaving GM he went to work for a tier 1 and patented another tape drive system and was the lead engineer on a dual rack and pinion window regulator system in the late 90's. I was one of the design engineers on the dual rack and pinion regulator back then.
As difficult as that C4's waterpump may be, I'd still take that over having to replace one on a vehicle with a leaky waterpump driven by the timing chains, a la Ford EcoBoost V-6 or Chrysler's 2.7 V6, etc.
On those as well as disconnecting all the front engine accessories, you need to remove the timing cover too. Now you have to worry about ensuring the cam timings is not out of whack. Mind you at that point your changing the chain, guides and tensioner since you're that deep. At least with the Vette you don't need to change the cam gears/chain.
Now the easiest waterpump I've ever changed was the one on my dad 1982 GMC Sierra 2500. The hardest part of that was just climbing into the engine compartment. 30 minutes and you're done, and that includes a coffee break! Those where the good old days - I miss them dearly!
I changed one of those timing chain driven water pumps on a Nissan Altima V6. About the craziest crap I've ever seen.
TBH, those additional 'while you're in there' add on's are frustrating. But if you're keeping it....
I am an owner of an '89 Corvette convertible. I'm not looking forward to these repairs! But the car is a blast to drive and I'll keep it as long as I'm able to get in and out of it :)
I had a 95 and now a 04. Trust me... get yourself a 02-04 C5. It's much nicer in every single way... except maybe looks.
why wouldn’t you be able to get in and out
How old are you? If you were over 50, you'd know. 🙂@@realjordanbelfort
@@realjordanbelfortold and slow bones 🦴😂
@@wydopnthrtlAgreed. I owned an 89 convertible and a 93 coupe and can say with confidence that the C5 is far superior to the C4.
Mr Grimes is definitely someone you'd want to fix your car, seems a most conscientious and affable fellow.
High resistance means low current. i = V/R. As resistance goes up, current (flow) goes down, But, yeah 80's GM. Cheap to fix (used to be), but not long lasting.
The fuse blew for the opposite reason. The resistance wasn't too high, it was too low.
Everyone missed that.
Of course they did, not many engineers here. Just laymen.
Old school Corvettes have the *flattest* engine bay of any American car, so it shouldn't be too surprising that components are hard to access. That dashboard fuse is absolutely ridiculous, however.
Now if a car has an extremely large and boxy engine bay and the components are still hard to reach... that's annoying.
I dunno wizard the phrase "Older cars were easier to work on" was around when this car was new, making this the difficult one.
Exactly, when the C4 era Corvettes came out from 1984-1996, the talk was how much simpler the C3's were to work. I have always been a Corvette guy and fortunate to have owned several, from the first a 1968 327 4 speed to an automatic commentative edition 2004. Currently have a 1995 LT1. The Opti Spark (Distributor System) is one of the most insane/dumbest design location for this distributor system in the lower front of the motor and directly under the water pump of which GM grues designed a "weep hole" for the pump to drip fluid as a notice that the internal bearing was failing. As with this video, other fuses on the C4 are also hidden under and behind the dash. These idiots design things without the common sense understanding that parts ware out and must be replaced!!!
but in 1985 most vette owners sold it or traded it in for a new vette, at around 30,000 to 50,000 miles.
I didn't know Grimes worked on cars in addition to singing. Very cool!
Agree that Grimes is a superstar. Danielson appears in a lot of videos too and is awesome. Does Grimes have his own youtube channel? He should. Car wizard has good people working at Omega and I suspect he is smart enough to pay them well.
I don’t, but I do have a TikTok. It’s all I’ve got the attention span for
He's the real MVP
@@GrimesGarageas a local guy, with a 89 tbird sc, we need a video on these cars. Mine is pretty nice, but I could use the plastic that goes on cowl. Front and rear fascia are changing shape too .😅
@@VFRNinja oh? I know the SC’s very well. I’d love to check it out sometime!
@@GrimesGarage yeah I will have to bring her up sometime. It's a black , 5 speed. I've had it since 95.😁
Back in the early 80's my dad was and had been a Ford man and his best friend was a GM man but he had two bad Cadillac's in a row, a troublesome Blazer, and an 84' Vette that was a nightmare for him,, so he bought a new 85' Bronco with the 351 HO and was a Ford man for the next 30 years until he passed...
One of the things that specifically gave him trouble in the Corvette were the power windows, I remember him saying, "what the hell,,, GM has been building power windows for 30 friggin years !!"...
I prefer GM, but Ford uses better manual boxes and sensors.
Being a Ford guy from 1982 thru 2002 was pretty easy..
Overall they built a lot of good stuff in those years starting with the 82' 5.0 Mustang GT, Crown Vics, and trucks, certain Tbirds, SHO Taurus etc..
I don't trust ANY of them now including Ford but if I was going to buy a new one it'd still be a Ford... @@user-sf7kl9uh7k
Ford didn't use good sensors on my '86 Ranger I bought new, Lol..that truck played a role in making me NOT a Ford Man...first year for EFI in the Ranger, 2.9L V6..stalls, random surging on idle, mysteriously quitting on me 50 miles from home, then when towed home, started on first try..never knew what it was...other electrical/electronic gremlins the dealer did not ever fully sorted out..the 2.9 was gutless, especially on low-end torque, very narrow power band..and the French Renault-made 4 speed overdrive automatic grenaded on me twice..once at 49,000 miles, again about 90,000 miles...and I did NOT dog on it...neither time was warranty, either(3 year, 36,000 mile warranty back then)..then there were issues with the rear brakes binding and locking randomly when applied, squeaky suspension, etc. I imagin..too bad, as I loved the look of that 1st Gen. Ranger. I imagine they had the bugs worked out by the time they released the 2nd Gen Ranger in '93, but I wasn't interested by then...not only had the '86 given me a bad taste on Rangers, I did not care at all for the looks/styling on the '93..I thought it looked like the front clip came from an '85 Tempo...switched to GMT 400 full size trucks after that, have owned/still own several...more useful size, ride/drive much better, just about as good of gas mileage the Ranger had, with a 350 TBI and 700R4 Transmission... @@user-sf7kl9uh7k
@@dyer2cycle Oh, that sucks!
The center console fuses are exactly why i sold my C4. Never again. I love my C6.
But your C6 is not as beautiful and iconic as the C4. Sorry to hear you sold it.
“The horn doesn’t blow, the driver doesn’t either.”
Shit got me so good lol
Lol just kept it moving.
He didn't even snicker
And how does he know this?🤔
The flat rate time would tell you how big this job would be, no guessing, a retail shop would always be looking at labor time to give an estimate. It's a lot easier when you work on only the models built by one manufacturer and you make more money when you specialize than when you try to work on everything and be a master of none. You will have all the right tools and factory training that makes the job seem easy, with a 99% customer satisfaction rating. The biggest problem with most dealerships nowadays is they want every mechanic to be a bumper-to-bumper guy. Ever since they started this, their comeback ratios have been high. A friend of mine opened a Corvette-only shop and made more money than any general repair shop would ever think of making. Plus, it gave him the benefit of only needing the tools and equipment to work on Corvettes so the job was always done right.
No name drop of your friends shop? Sure lots of people would be interested
This was in North Hollywood, CA in the 1960s-1990s he's retired now, and I have no idea what happened to the shop. @@Sam-go3mb
This is why I love to do my own work. Not saying this to sht on you, everyone is different and some people will need competent mechanics like yourself! But the amount of moeny you save in labor alone by DIYing stuff is second to none.
Both my C4s were flooded during hurricane Ian. I’m still heart broken after a year later. I’m looking for another and they’re out there, but they’ve definitely gone up in price.
Few years ago we had a flood and a dude who lived along the river built a raft, parked his vintage Porsche on it and chained it to his tree.
I'd have kept both those vettes and rebuilt them. They wouldn't be original, but there's more than enough of those.
@@ItsDaJaxunfortunately, by the time it was realized we were going to take a direct hit in Fort Myers there wasn’t anything we could do. The flooding came FAST. I also don’t have the capacity to basically rebuild 2 corvettes in the condo we live in. I sold them to another enthusiast and he has one up and running 1 year later, he’s going to LS swap the second and I get updates once in awhile. I’m just glad they’re still surviving and in good hands.
I would install two 5 amp fuses, each one right by the horn. With a little luck, one of those will blow instead of the 10 amp hidden fuse.
Even better, install a 10 amp fuse where the two horn wires come together. If they don't come together in an accessible place, rewire it to be so.
My feelings exactly! Locate fuses somewhere else!
Good idea. Put a 15 amp fuse in the dash and 5 amps at the horns.
@@glengerdes4158that what I did. But also, I just used 1 horn problem solved and saved a lot of money 😅❤😊
You blew my mind with this suggestion
Wire in a relay as well.
Thanks for a great video. I was humbled by what your mechanics have to deal with everyday!!! You and your crew have my respect. Carry On Sir!
6:02 low resistance will blow fuses not high.
Short circuit f.e.
I love Corvettes but the interior😔 , all that old plastic is a pain to work with, any bad force is a broken trim that you have to buy, most cases used.
Those trim pieces with molded in clips, all brittle at this point, are the worst. Anything one would find used, is probably just as bad. And anything new is "NLA" (no longer available).
@@Gr8thxAlot yhep Is sad but true
@@edgardovigo147And it's not just Corvettes. Any "modern" old car is going to have the same problem, even exotics.
@@Gr8thxAlotThat's true. The bad thing is that most of those parts are discontinued, I hope 3d printing can save those cars interiors🙂
I didn't realize the WP on the L98 was such a PITA. I find the water pump on the LT1 to be a cakewalk.
It sucks yes but you only have to do that task once or twice in a lifetime
Too much bs in that Vette, my Fbody isn't that hard, same engine.
I remember getting in and out of my C 4 back in the day. Was anxiously awaiting seeing the Car Wizard showing how it's done.
It all depends on the car. On my 97 Interceptor, I only needed to pop the belt and remove 3 bolts to replace the water pump. Maybe it was six bolts because of the pulley🤣.
My 2013 van needed the front axle removed to replace the alternator.
In general, 70s and older are easier to work on. But there are always exceptions!
I had a C5 which had the plastic gears for the head lights replaced by a metal set
Now that they stay up... you can see a good solid 40ft with the stock headlight bulbs 🤨
I put silverstars and the 4 high kit on my 04Z. It's now on par with a new car.
Automakers made stuff out of plastic because they wanted to save money in the 1980s and 1990s. Now that's costing people twice as much 40 years later to replace them.
If a plastic piece is gonna last 40 years that's amazing
@@clydedoris5002 True. These days it’s the electronics that are going to be a big problem in 40 years.
I'm waiting to see what happens with Plastic Headlights. A colleague had a 20 year old Mercedes in which they were completely opaque. Yes you can probably buy new ones but for how long ?
@@MrDuncl Plastic headlights are coated with a lacquer that's yellowing from UV light and getting dull by being exposed to the elements and use. That's already a thing since glass headlights disappeared from the market long time ago. There's refreshening kits on the market for DIY. Or professional services to refreshen them. Not too easy of a job, quite time-consuming…
Thanks for this. I was looking into one of these, but between the aging plastics and Optospark distributor, I'll stick with a newer Coyote.
Keeping a positive mind about all these older car issues,there are clever minds our there that enjoy problem solving and they will find solutions that work .
Custom manufacturers using rhe latest machines and technology.
Remember everything was made once before with old tech ,old methods
I have no doubt that a C4 Corvette is difficult to work on. But I own a 1976 Corvette, and it is very easy to work on. With the exception of the rear suspension, which would be easy in a shop, everything else is easy to work on in your driveway. It's an old school carbureted cast iron small block Chevy 350 with a TH350 transmission. Several years ago, I replaced the engine with a new crate engine, and the transmission with a custom rebuilt one. I did the entire job by myself with a Harbor Freight engine crane. Everything is easy to get to. The water pump and timing chain cover couldn't be easier. Right after I first bought it nearly 30 years ago, an engine mount broke. Using nothing but scissors jacks, jackstands, and 2x4s, I was able to replace both on them with the car parked on a gravel surface. I don't consider a C4 to be an "old" car. It may be old in years, but it's a computer car, and that's where I draw the line between old design and new design. There are very few carbureted cars that are not easy to work on.
That 1982 is not an "anniversary" edition, it is a "collector edition" designed to commemorate the last year of the C3 generation. Sadly, it is the first computerized Corvette, with its "crossfire injection" It should still be a lot easier to work on than that 1985, as the Crossfire Injection is basically just throttle body injection, really nothing more than computer controlled carburetors.
GM in Europe was making plastic parts in the engine and transmission too,
we had an 80s Opel, and it suddenly said "snap" and didn´t go to gear anymore. Seems that some plastic part had broken in the gear linkage.
Only thing I could think was "why the hell would they make that out of plastic?"
Horns and windows are easy fixes. Horns go out because of rain that goes on them all the time through the flip headlights right above them. Cover them with some plastic material and they will not go out anymore (sometimes the fuse behind the front dash goes out too). Window brackets were upgraded in 1986 and mount on 1984-1985 as well, much better system w/o plastic rail, easy replacement too..
Great vid, Wiz. Makes me a little happier that I got the later year C4 Corvette. I know they still have their pain points but at least I don't have to remove half of my dash to get to a 10 amp fuse!
Speaking of plastic parts, the headlight motors use plastic gears which strip and make the headlights no longer flippable. There are upgraded brass replacements available now though. Had to laugh when you compared doing a water pump in a sports car (Corvette) to doing it in a full size pick up (LS Silverado).
Usually the gears are fine. No need for new gears. Its those 3 plastic pellets that are dust by now.
Have a 93 6 speed. Not hard to work on and none of those weird fuse placements/smog pumps etc… even the first gen opti is not that bad. However I’d still never buy a 30+ year old car unless I was willing to do the work and sort it myself.
Now that mine is sorted I’d drive it anywhere….great and fun car!
I think you cannot go wrong with an 89+ six speed…
Love watching people with this kind of knowledge. Very neat.
I have an 85 and can beyond relate, I've broken so much brittle plastic, and finding new or used ones on eBay cost so much money, you're lucky if you find one in a junkyard and get parts for the right price.
Love your shows.
Mr and Mrs wizard decent hardworking people with lots of car knowledge über cool.
Greetings from Hicham moroccan arab born in the Netherlands and living in Germany.
Been working as automotive engineer and tech support engineer for diverse car manufacturers over the last 16 years.. got cars and wiring diagrams coming out of my ears hhhh..keep the content coming..
Me thinking quitting the industry at this level because no fan of electric bs cars... me I want diesel and petrol fumes.
Take care
Any BMW from 2002 on is a ticking time bomb 😂
A late 1960s to mid 1970s BMW 2002 would be considered to be uber reliable when compared to a post mid 2000s BMW that's loaded with poor quality 'break-breaky' plastic connectors and parts - all ensconsed in a very hot turbo engine bay.
Okay, you got me with Prince and Little Red Corvette!! Nice one.
crikey!!! props to Grimes, Amazing repairs
1:17
"THIS is the original 1985 General Motors water pump,
and today I´m going to review it´s quirks and features,
and then I´m going to give it a Wizard Score."
You are getting close to 1 million subs. Do you have plans for a special video?
Many years (about 20) ago I swapped the water pump on my 92 Caprice wagon in 45 minutes, start to finish ..... including painting the pump black. I remember this because I was astonished at how easy it was. The Chevy 350 is just that easy ..... IN A CAPRICE. In the Vette it's another story all together. I have a 78 Vette so I feel your pain. Of course they became much more complicated in the 80s. Excellent content as always.
Depends on what older vehicle. 1995 Silverado and similar vehicle were very easy to work on. Corvettes had to cram everything into a very slim cramped location
waiting for my c4 at the mechanics watching this 😭
It appears that a key requirement of being a mechanic is having the patience of a saint
Always enjoy videos on Corvettes and the extra bonus of getting Grimes involved. Glad I decided to get the C6.
I have changed the alternator in my 86 Corvette in less than 5 minutes start to finish . I've change the fuel pump on the same car in about 15 minutes start to finish. Some stuff is easy and some stuff is a pain in the butt
Now if you go far enough back, say to 1963, there are very few plastic parts(not zero though) in cars. I have a 1963 Falcon, it is very easy to work on. I did have a small plastic part break in the manual windows though. Luckily, due to the Mustang, these are readily available and it was easy to replace. (I actually like manual windows better than power, no need to start the car to control your windows and as no power is required, they are safer if you run off into deep water). Now safety wise, the old Falcon is so lacking(except for the aforementioned manual windows), that it is kind of scary to leave the driveway(and I drove this car constantly while attending college many years ago)
My uncle has a 63 Falcon that he had when he was young. Someone stole the engine out of it where he had it stored and its been sitting in his backyard under a tarp for 20 years.
I went in a lake in a 69 Montego, I can attest to manual windows 👍
@@OldHeathen1963 how did you wind up in a lake?
my Uncle donated the car to me when I was 12, my dad drove it to work -- what I remember the most about it 1) had a manual choke 2) the floor board rusted out and I liked to look at the street beneath my feet - lol! I believe it had a In-line 6cylinder engine, and was an automatic. Never got to drive it - gave it away.
@@jekutube9 Rusted floorboards were very common on 1960s Falcons and Mustangs. The floorboard on mine was rusted, but I fixed it. The vent rubber (which cannot be changed without removing welds) would rot, allowing water onto the floorboards. Bad design.
If not already done so, it would be prudent to replace the left hand door window mechanism - as its failure would be imminent. Replacing it now would be advantageous because Grimes has attained a 'ready understanding' on how to perform the job.
This was presented to the customer. The customer declined the extra cost
Thanks car wizard for this post. Gold. I like older cars but not the ones in the era that you have highlighted here. All my cars are in the golden era that are actually easy to work on. Cheers.
Horn blows but the driver doesn't... 🤣🤣 We were saying that back before the Wizard was even a twinkle in papa Wizards eye... Haven't heard that in a LOT of years. Wizard - you try and play the straight man, but every now and again we see that 'regular guy' humor shine thru. 😂😂
My favorite body style!!!
I think that Mr Grimes deserves a big pay raise 😊
You just didn't get old enough! A 53 Chevy one ton with a four speed and a "Big Six" engine can be rebuilt without removal of anything heavier than the hood. And without all those emission parts and A/C and electronic ignition, what's to get in the way?
Just go far enough back, and you get a horse, which is hell to work on.🤣
You think it's hell for you, what about for the horse?
@@valis992000*neigh*
I love the C4 Corvette but I'm only interested in the '94 - '96 model years.
As long as you understand what you are getting into, and allowing x dollars for refurbishment, C4 corvettes are a heck a car to have fun in. I have a 92 6 speed that’s lived its life in garages (it has less than 20K Miles on the odometer), and it’s a blast to drive. Plastics certainly don’t like the sun and heat over long periods of time.
I’m sure that hidden fuse has driven many a mechanic nuts…
It certainly took some sleuthing and deciphering vague instructions on forums to pin down!
Only a young guy would describe this as an older car
What's your break point for "old".
IMO... 20+yrs but only due to plastics that are degraded.
If it weren't for that I'd say anything that didn't have some sort of electronic control for fuel supply.
30 years old 1994 is qualified for antique tags in my state
@@wydopnthrtlthat’s a good break point. I might personally say about 1969.
@@vnorvi My oldest car is a 03 Jaguar. It in excellent shape but I know when something does break I'm either going to have to make it myself or spend a lot.
My other toy is a 04 C5 corvette. So far its a solid car and parts are easy to get.
In the future... I very well might try to go "old" w/a mid 60s-early 70s coupe.
I enjoyed my time with my 1990 C4 6m convertible. Great car for the money and cheap to buy and to get parts on. Gen 1 SBC is like working with a legend and I loved every minute of it. The engine bay is a bit cluttered with the engine being so low and far back and that cross member in front, but all "do-able". I always was jealous of a Chevelle owner with a SBC for all the room they had around the engine, lol. I did all my own restoration, maintenance, and upgrade work and it was a great stepping stone prepping me for working on my '89 Porsche Carrera.
my dad had an 87 looked exactly the same as this one. he died two years ago. now my uncle owns it. as you can imagine our relationship wasn't that great, but cannot dispute that it's a speedy ride.
My brother had an old S10 ZR2 that was a plow truck and I think it was also the horn fuse that he had to remove most of the dash to find where they buried it, not only that but it was just an inline fuse under all that along the horn wire
I never do all that work. Just sit back in my recliner and be lazy retired. But hats off to all you ambitious people fighting the mice oil leaks and never ending maintenance.
The solution to some of these plastic parts I've found is to get real friendly with a fiberglass specialist, as they're probably the closest you'll get to remaking some bigger external plastic parts like bumpers and trim.
I don't see this as an old car issue but rather a Corvette issue.
Bs.
On another subject, GM also had this nasty habit of pairing an otherwise exciting car design with powertrains so lackluster that enthusiasts called the powertrains sleeping pills. They did this with the early 3rd gen F bodies, with the C4 Corvette (84 had a 205 hp Crossfire V8 carried over from the outgoing C3) and also with the Chevrolet Beretta and the 1988 FWD Grand Prix.
Pre-ls or even gen 2 lt-1 GM cars a waste of time and money imho.
@@triggerjerk01That rules out a lot of really interesting GM cars. A shame to see you missing out. Those TPI engines are beautiful, didn't make a ton of power from the factory but had lots of aftermarket support.
"Old cars" ... I'm thinking 70's and before. I do have an 88' Corvette, and agree. Things as simple as changing a tail light is nearly impossible. Pulling the Battery requires about 5 different wrenches.😖😖😖😖😖😖
Although, I still love the car and it is FUN to drive. I'm smiling every time I drive it.
Almost a million subscribers!!! Wow!!! Congratulations David 🎉
I have upgraded a fair amount of plastic parts to metal parts for my cars because they broke off or shattered to pieces. For example, automatic transmission shift indicator cable brackets for Fords, door handles on GM trucks and vehicles, and others. Things that shouldn't easily break if the manufacturer chose to use metal parts in the beginning.
Solid metal rather than sintered metal as well.....
I’m adding some carbon fiber overlays for extra strength to a bunch of my interior parts
That era of cars is only cost effective if you're going to do the work yourself and "modernize" pretty much everything you can.
I have 2 mid 90's Lincoln Mark VIII's.
I'm converting mine to an Arduino-based engine management set-up called "Speeduino" and converting to a 5-speed from a Mustang.
My wife's car is getting a Holley Terminator. (Speeduino can't run the auto trans....yet)
The mechanical side of them is good. They run great, they handle fine but, the electronics and wiring isn't worth the trouble.
But.... At the end of this I'll have 2 really nice "Luxury Coupes" that are fairly reliable and actually easy for ME to work on.
If I had to pay someone else to do all of this I'd just go buy a new car. But, I'm stubborn....
Haltech from Australia may be able to do everything with just the one module....
i had heard of haltech from below comment, but not speeduino, thats a really interesting use and thought though
@JohnSmith-yv6eq The Haltech system would work but, it would cost more than the car.... The Speeduino was about $150. And since I'm already planning on converting mine to a 5 speed it works out. Plus, I really like the "open source" aspect.
I have done that water pump job on a 91 C4. It does give you the opportunity to degrease the front of the engine while you are in there. By the way, Jason at Vette2Vette buys wrecked ones and strips them for parts. His customer service is great and he tests all the electronics before shipping them.
Interesting point, as plastic degrades with time a lot of older cars are gonna be stuck waiting for obscure parts like this, most engine stuff is available because it is expected to fail with heat cycling and vibration etc, but stuff like window frames and dashboard parts might not be available even second hand.
I have a 1987 Ferrari and a 1989 Corvette. The Ferrari is quite a bit easier to work on, and parts availability also is better.
Really?? that’s interesting
😮
I had to rebuild the power seat gear drive in my '83 Caprice. It was mostly plastic and fell apart when I was installing new carpet.
On my Japanese motorcycles, the manual said to blow your horn daily "to ensure working right". The diaphram on an exposed horn will get stuck unless you USE it. Sticks badly otherwise. That's a pretty clean C4! Had an 87 in red, just about like that one. Except for HORRIBLE A/C [heat was good!] I really loved my Scarlett. If I can find another one priced right, I'm going to buy it!
The bottom line is this is just bad engineering.