LDPower FR2305 Motor | LIKE A V8 FOR YOUR QUAD
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- Let's get this out of the way: this motor freaking rips. But it also makes most batteries cry and puff. Despite all this, I think it could be a really good freestyle motor because of its linear and predictable throttle curve. Just don't get the 2600 kv version okay?
What did QuadMcFly say about this motor? www.miniquadtes...
Places to buy this motor:
Banggood: goo.gl/6C5tdB
Newbeedrone: goo.gl/HAZwJu
Banggood link above is an affiliate link. I receive a small commission if you use it.
Dude, I've gotta tell you, you are THE man! love watching your videos, great info well delivered, and entertaining while your at it. I'll be a patron member soon cause I owe you a beer.
I friggen love this channel, not just for your experience and expertise, but also your humor! It breaks up an otherwise great learning environment and reminds me how fun we all have with our hobby. Thank you JB for, well.. being funny as hell.
Watching this video today, knowing he bought a 4 cilinder mustang🤣🤣🤣
Fr
basically a motor will reduce current draw as rpm increases. lower kv will cause this to happen faster. if the motor is stopped a lower kv will have more torque but at rpm it will have less so there is a crossover point. the stator size is one factor in torque and rpm is related to how much torque it takes to turn the prop, the prop also takes less torque to turn depending on how fast it moves through the air. the smaller stator motors will have the same low to mid throttle response but at high throttle will not have the torque to go full RPM untill the quad starts moving at high speed. this is like a turbo that needs some engine rpm to get into boost. the thrust is less than a large stator but it's not slow and it pulls at high speed if the kv is higher. a large stator will get the props up to speed before the craft fully accelerates. this is a problem with high kv because the power it takes to go that fast is significant. with low kv and a large stator the motor will look linear on a thrust stand. it will take a lot of throttle to go high rpm but the motor will always do what the throttle wants very quickly. with a high kv and small stator the motor will appear to taper off with throttle. but in the air it might seem to endlessly accelerate.
it's possible today to make more thrust with 2200 kv than 2700kv last year. most of the top end reduction in RPM is from inductance and the time it takes to change the magnetic field. but some of it is from the skin effect on the conductors and some from Eddy currents in the core. the higher the motor speed the thinner the skin creating more resistance in the winding and the possibility of Eddy currents in thinner core laminations. plating the wires with silver reduces resistance on the skin so if the skin effect starts to affect things it is less pronounced than pure copper but I don't think the motor rpm and thus frequency is really high enough for that to take effect. I'm sure it really just looks cool, marginally lowers resistance and is cheeper than full silver windings. using multiple strands of wire also mitigates the skin effect, if the wire is smaller than the skin anyway it always acts like a solid wire with no increase in resistance, using multiple wire makes it not act like a thin wire that always has a lot of resistance. I haven't done the math but i think we might be in the range where this makes a difference. if you look at the t-motor f-60pro it has multiple strands of silver plated copper wire and thin laminations. the 2200kv version is a beast running with 2500 kv motors even on 5" props where high rpm is needed to make thrust because it has the torque from the 2207 stator (or is it 2206?) and it's engineering doesn't cause it to taper more than the kv requires it to.
I remember the quadmcfly episode well and his suggestion is that with these modern motors that have both big stators and high kv to run a easy to turn prop. something like an hq 5x4x3 or v1s 5x4x3 or maybe even a twin blade..
don't confuse amp draw with inefficient. it's really saying how effective the motor is at getting the power to do what you command from the props. if you don't force the props to do hard things, if you alter the throttle settings so you never ask for full throttle and only keep that surplus of power for headroom in the PID loop you might find the battery life is better. if you lower the kv of a large stator so the thrust is comparable to an older 2204 or 2205 you might be shocked at the battery life. lower the kv further and increase the pitch of the prop and it might get better still. high kv and high pitch don't kill batteries because of inefficiency in those components. they kill batteries because you are asking the props to make more thrust and maneuver in ways it couldn't before (and maybe still can't because you lack the torque with motor stators that aren't large enough) high pitched props are actually more efficient but you need to Ballance the total power output of the prop to what the battery can provide so you may need to slow them down if you're not happy with battery life. with high kv you need to make the prop Easy to spin or to govern the throttle in some way. the new generation of current controlled ESCs might allow you to run a battery killing combo and just protecting the battery. when the speed increases and attitude becomes more agressive the thrust drops off, this is when the high kv will shine over the stuff me steele and finalglideaus like to run.
I tried some old two blade HQ 5045BN on my 2600kV motors yesterday and the copter flew amazingly with BF3.1.7 default PIDs. But two props were destroyed after landing in tall grass. :(
got these motors since a few months, the 2600. love the power!
I've had 2 sets of the 2206 2200kv LD power motors on my 210 lumineer frame over the last 13/14months, they really are some of the best motors i've ever had, great build quality and they really do have some great power, very smooth, i look forward to trying out the 2450kv motors
Speaking of torque curves and 23XX motors. Just got the new AVAN props for my copter with EMAX 2306's yesterday. They are actually designed with the torque curve of the RS2306's in mind and I've got to say they fly amazing! The control is super precise and almost no prop wash.
#second again - I'm watching this while soldering a 2407 onto a quad...
Love the shield that protects the statos from long screws and the solder on wire pads.
Saw these I think under a different brand name in some European video - hope we get them here down under.
Do you have a link to that video or maybe the brand name?
5:35 “I just want all my nuts to be the same” lol I’m dead😂
these powerful motors are why I love turnigy graphenes so much! I can fly moderate speed and get 3-4 minutes or just tear up the sky and get 2 minutes and the lipos are still going as strong as day one! you really should try something like the turnigy graphenes with powerful motors joshua, they are a great combo. I've been pulling 120-130 amps consistently with 1300mah 5s/6s with no problems.
with the newer stronger motors, I really suggest you try lower kV joshua. Running your old RG 2700kv is kind of like 2300kv of the new generation when comparing amp draw to power ratio
Hey Joshua, another very interesting video. Did you by chance try a couple of different props to see the effect on the motor's efficiency? Just curious ...
Anyway, keep up the great videos ... you tend to take on subjects that are unique and very informative.
Cheers, dave
Hi Joshua, So can I ask, what is your motor of choice?
Scott Burr i back your comment!¡ please tell us josh
would be great to know
Still searching for the perfect motor. The motor I fly and like the best is the Rotorgeeks 7075 series 2205/2700kv.
rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=421
It's not ultra-powered, but it is smooth and durable.
Joshua Bardwell what ESC are you running on those? I have a set I had the RG20 which worked fine but old and big... I've blown 3 ESC on a new build I tried the rg2205/2700 4" I was hoping to use. ordered some spedix 30a for them but QMcF suggested the RG were now old tech and should just get a newer motor.
I'm using spedix 25a with my 2600kV LDPower motors, but two of them already died. The second one smoked my motor too. I guess spedix 30a would be better.
now I have to get the 2600 kv! Thanks Bardwell! Really though, great job! You are the FPV master!
You're a glutton for punishment.
I absolutely love the power output of the chepo 2306 2700 kv motors I have been messing with.. but the batteries hate it lol. Nice video, interested in some 2400-2500kv versions soon. Great video!
Great review! Can you tell us what makes the motor hot? Is it because of the bearings spinning at high speed or is it due to huge amount of current flowing through the windings or both?
I don't know. These motors do pull a lot of current but I'm not sure that is enough to explain how hot they got.
That smoke coming out of the motor mid flight looks like a real game changer
The leading theory is that it's bearing oil burning off, because the windings show zero signs of any damage.
Joshua Bardwell makes sense but still doesn't inspire my confidence as a buyer 😐
Am I seeing "Game of Thrones" coloring style on your video? New LUT? Or is it time for my eye appointment?
I have a particular look that I have used for a while now. It's not a LUT. I do it by hand.
You’re awesome man. I really appreciate the videos as I’m just getting into the hobby.
Hey Josh, are there any efficient 23 or 24mm diameter motors? Everything I try larger than 22mm kills batteries and I can't finish 2minute races. Based on my experience, the most efficient motor that generates more torque is a 2207. Do you observe taller is more efficient than larger diameter?
I don't have a massive amount of data here, but no I agree with you based on what I have seen. The 23XX and 24XX motors make massive massive thrust but have poor efficiency on 5" props. I think most of them are over-sized for 5" props. I think these could be interesting motors on a fixed-wing for example, or on 6" props with a 2200 mAh battery or something.
Hi Joshua, I have been watching your videos and I enjoy them all. I'm such a noob that for now I'm just trying to absorb as much information as I can. I'm certain that with this subject on motors I will have to watch it several times and supplement it with reading before I grasp it's full breadth. Thanks for your valued input. What equipment do you use for video on this segment? Your imaging is suppurb in this video.
The camera used for this video is the Logitech C920.
amzn.to/2SjZhJz
glad to hear you don't struggle with your nuts Joshua
in most cases the friction between two surfaces is supposed to drive the prop. if you need reverse rotation it means you never had the prop nut tight enough to begin with. in the real world reverse threads are usually used to counter act procession not acceleration. the problem with acceleration is that things that spin also stop spinning so unless the thing is really heavy and happens to start up faster than it slows down it doesn't change much. when it comes to wheel nuts you should only have procession when you hit bumps on heavy loaded vehicles like dump trucks. the friction between the rim and hub should prevent anything from sliding around to cause procession in normal situations. procession normally exists on spinning parts that have a force pushing on their side like the ground pushing up against a wheel or a foot pushing down on a bicycle pedal, but you don't have that with a propeller. the nuts own inertia is so small it's a non factor, the prop might be a different story but if you can't get enough friction to drive the prop then self tightening threads are only going to make props hard to get off, but you don't really have that problem because there is enough friction to drive the props which means you don't need self tightening threads....
Ldpower 2307 2300 are better. They just came out with them and they rip with some cyclones while not drawing a lot of amps. Get about 2 minutes of flight time coming down at 15 volts with 1300 4s. Try them out Josh!!!
VIK FPV yeah I checked out your vid on them, where can you buy them?
Keep shredding!
Hey man. Thanks bro. Newbeedrone will have 2307 motors soon I will do some more testing of the motors on my channel. This is not a plug haha. just trying to help :) rip on bro!!
Icwatudidthar... on numerous occasions. Thumbs up to another awesome video.
I think you need to revisit this. I bought these 2600kv and love them. See we all forgot how we got here. Tune. I too had hot motors, hot esc and short cooked pack. UNTIL I TUNED FOR THE INCREASED POWER curve. I know you know that's how this works. More diameter, more torque, more magnetism, more torque more kv, more acceleration. COMPLETELY lower pids. 2600kv has no downside (within reason, 9500kv for example would certainly suffer torque curve ) if it's tuned properly. You only have higher top speed to get your Nuts off!
with quads, there's no such thing as too much. just more versions. Recently, a motor just got released that allows for 5 mins flight time (yes, while pushing to its limit).
But no one will say it's too far, it's just different.
I bought some unbranded/generic 2204 motors on eBay and when they came they were ldpower 2204 2200kv. researched them and they were supposedly good and run about $16 each , since I got all 4 for $21 total I was excited. after flying them a bunch and using other brands of motors I will say ldpower makes some very killer brushless motors. not a well known company as of now, but I have bought several sets of the black 2204 motors and will find more. I haven't tried the blue racing type yet but might in future.
so like favorite part of the motor is that well you solder the wires onto the motor, i have a bad issue with losing an arm or the motor coming off and the wires being yanked out right up in the stator
nuts!
gorn nuts
Haha. Still going with the stupid immature jokes. Loving it!
classic
Immature? You must not hang out with a lot of men. I can't think of a day where some innuendo like this isn't made and we range from 20's to 70's.
se1v3rt hey, I never said anything about it being wrong. I make these jokes all the time. I think it's good that Joshua includes this sort of humour in his videos.
why'd you call them stupid tho
Interesting stuff about the motor throttle curve. My T-Motor F60s and F80s are more linear, while my BH T2 Tornado 2206 2600kv are much more responsive on the top but less on the bottom. Great turbocharger/supercharger analogy.
Im confused about something this 'positive ventilation/cooling'.....
As you describe it, the motors rotation is 'flinging' the hot air up & out....
Up- against the downthrust provided by the props?
Surely the down thrust of the props (yes there's less/not a whole lot that close to center of prop) would cancel that out or even over-ride it?
Wouldn't it be more effective it the motors spun the other way so the finning helps to pump air down & through the motor instead???
Just seemed like a really obvious thing to me which is why Im confused as the manufacturers would surely see this problem too- so what am I missing here?
THanks again for your time, effort & content, & I appreciate any answer you might have
I don't know the details, I just know what I've been told. Remember that the prop is making less thrust toward the center, so there already may be a negative pressure area near the top-center of the prop disc, as air is pulled into the faster-moving column near the edge of the prop. Likewise, it makes sense that there would be a high pressure area at the bottom of the motor, as air strained to escape from the prop pushing it down.
Thank you for your prompt reply once again Joshua...
I wrote the above at the start of the clip having paused while it was fresh in my mind.
But when later in the clip you showed the motor puffing little clouds of smoke I started to think similar thoughts as to pressure area & figured, "Well, these genius motor manufacturers DO know more than me after all..." AND (jeez I miss italics) "Seeing some simulations of fluid dynamics around the motor & a prop would sure be interesting!"
Annnyways, thank you again for everything- most especially for helping to answer silly noob questions in my quest to feed my brain useful information & trivia to ponder.... ;)
I never have pets a beautiful motor man I tell you. I've been using the purple/blue LD Powers the regular racing spec for about a year now and I love them.
In racing you don't need the CW/CCW diferentiation. We also use one direction only - and also relay on the nylon insert locknuts.
+Przemysław Jakubczak that's the opposite of what I've seen. Racers insist on staying in the air at all costs and prefer CCW / CW motors.
In competition if you hit an obstacle the loose prop is 1 in 10 reasons you are out of the race. In this year in FAI F3U cup I've seen only 3 cases where the loose prop was a reason of not continuing a flight + so it's not that frequent since vendors start making good quality lock nuts. The rest of show stoppers are broken prop, smashed cam, motors ripped off, battery unplugged, broken arm, broken battery strap etc etc. We had CW/CCW motors - but if you have a "big consumption" ie. you tear apart 6 Brother Hobby T2 motors in a 2 month period - then unification is a way to go.
What is the most efficient motor you know of? I'm looking at running large props. Maybe 12-14"
a lot of that performance may be due to the cyclone. drastic difference from a 5x4x3
So Josh, just wondering if your perception of "Linear" response is due to a much greater rotational inertia? In the video it doesn't sound like it comes on fast, and that means more lost energy in heating because you are just wasting it in inertia, like having heavy props?
Any way just putting the idea out there.
It's possible. I don't think the linear feel is entirely due to slow response though. The motors felt more precise at low throttle and at no point did they surprise me with sudden thrust. With the Returner R3, I sometimes got surprised even when making relatively small throttle moves, which would not be explained by rotational inertia.
Not sure the heat issue and the "Smooth" response with no surprises all sound like rotational inertia, but you are right a well designed motor should not have a steep transition in the efficiency curve. I'd still like to come up with a test bench that allows those characteristics to be quantified. Nice review mate.
Camshake Fx @10:12 = nice :) thx for this review Joshua
I'm hoping one of those people you gave a set of motors to is mqtb. Nice product review.
oh...oh.. oh!look! the box of the Aomway Commanders is open! :) So much expectation. Is the diversity module getting compared with the laforge/thrueD? Is the DVR better than the one on the FS? are they part of one of your suuuper cool shootout we all love? Are you using them all this time? (I seen that box there since late May)
Your opinion matters, but you already know that.
Yes the Commander is in the shootout.
The Commander review is done, I am just holding it until Banggood gets more stock, because they were the ones who sent me the goggles, so I think it's only fair to send any sales their way.
This motor vs emax 2306 2400kv motors? (assuming 2300 or 2450 kv ldpower motors)?
What would you pick?
I'm still using the standard 2300kv red bottom emax motors so my frame of reference is limited.
In my experience, i really like the quality of the emax motors.
I honestly don't know because I haven't flown the Emax. People have amazing things to say about the 2306 with Avan props.
omg thank you so much for that laugh! I needed that this morning and i did NOT see that coming lmao "...nuts off...rolls eyes" I died lol
Josh, I am running the Armattan oomph 2306 2300 kv motors what battery would you use ( may and C rating) I am running 30amp esc's
Until we have a leap in battery technology we don't need any changes no f4 or f7 , no new motors just quality built gear but cheaper price tags
Onur Can Vural Aggree motors are good enough for now ect.
But mire CPU power...naaa mann...we wong ever have enough...think of all the applications you could run with heavier more complex programming and flexibility.
maby not for pure raceing but a lot of the cool stuff u could program hasnt got a chance on a F7 😂.
think things like real-time computational stuff like active avoidance, image regonition, things that push s top end PC chip like a I7 or the new I9s to the limit...imahine what u could do if u could somehow fit the processing power of a server into a sub 450mm Frame! The ultility and military applications alone would be craxy...we could have AI raceing ect LOL or somin.
I agree. F4 chips are a good idea. I have noticed some of my f3 chips are sluggish on the ground with the latest betaflight
Thank you so much for sharing sir, I appreciate how detailed your reviews are. The jokes are the icing on the cake lol!
i don't think CCW threads are really needed , i had my front right prop come loose 3 time in a row now and i do get them tight, if it was to get loose because of the thread then the front left one should be the one.
also on the linear response from throttle , i think that is really important to have and probably worth checking which motors have that, i did the newbie mistake and got 1800kv 2207's on 4 S and until i got some dalprop cyclone 5051 props i didn't knew what linear throttle looked like . i think it has to do with how the ESC timing works anticipating the load and if the load isn't there then it will spin up , it's almost like a car driving on slippery road, give just a bit extra gas and it spins out.
hi joshua awesome video im currently running tmotor mn2204 2300kv on dal 5045 bn v2 and theyre efficient and decently powerful at around 57a max but id like something more powerful but not crazy amp hungry was thinkingof the rotorgeeks 2204 2300 or the 2206. so the question is which motors would u recomend for freestyle with good thrust but pulling under 70a
I fly these motors and like them a lot:
rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=421
Not rip your face off power, but reasonable and very smooth and durable.
Daaaaaaanng!! Check out Mr. Bardwell with the wicked freestyle moves! The master shows us how it's done! Good to see you kick back and do some ripping!!!
lol nuts! Awesome show as per usual! Thank you!
So am i the only one that noticed the Aomway Commander Goggles in the background. When are you planning on posting that review. I am very interested in hearing what you have to say about them compared to the FatSharks. Sorry to be off topic and great video as always.
Banggood provided the goggles for review, so I am holding the review until Banggood has stock to sell. Not really fair for them to put up the product and then somebody else gets any sales that are generated.
I see, true. I put in for a pre-order at Banggood on jun 5th and i just received an email that my order has been shipped yesterday. I don't think they will able to keep then in stock with all the great reviews its has been given already. I am still excited to see how they compare in your review with the competitors.
Hi Josh, I think you just described how to solve the "short motor wire' problem. The wires get shorter and shorter, as you change and rebuild. Until they are the perfect size for a 'Bardwells sister' . What is a Bardwells sister you ask? Well, they come in a variety of sizes, according to motor diameter, shaft length not important ;) they work as a washer between the motor and the frame with the added feature of, three solder point tabs. Presto, short wire motor? :( Dont throw it away! Throw it on a Bardwells sister board
Clever.
Are those prescription glasses you wear? Do you have custom lenses for your Fat Sharks?
ua-cam.com/video/eygC3VJ6mrU/v-deo.html
In one of Ryan's motor reviews he talked about how the stator height meant a lot more for power and efficiency the width does, something along the lines of the motors with lower but wider stator started to really jack the amps up when the props got heavy where the taller stator motors were more linear in efficiency, can't remember which review he discussed this in but he had burnt the motor in his testing , I do know it was a 2305 maybe one of the tmotors. I think if you get the opportunity to test more "monster motors" hopefully you can get your hands of the emax 2306 or the efaw 2407's. Although honestly I think a newer generation 2206 is more the 90% of fpv pilots need and even they will destroy your lipos.
but I need a v12
and i need a w16
STRYKA FPV nah v8 v12 and v16 isn't good enough. I WANT A JET TURBINE!!!
I need wd40
I need an i4 1.5 prius engine
oh come on everyone knows that brushed motors are much more efficient,light and very powerful
Another great vid. Keep em coming :)
Would love to see any of the RcTimer BeeRotor ZoeFpv Z motors in your hands, there are not much about them on the tube sadly and not easy to find "Flyers/pilots" info about them. I run them on 3-4 quads now and love them so feels like they are in the shadows. 1407 are deamons, 2207/2400 on my qav-x mmmmm, but my sad flying and bad English won't give them a fair comparison to others.
You should test a 2300kv motor instead.. and review that.
By just checking the chart difference
Its a hell of a difference on 2306 2300kv and 2600kv in efficiency.
Im on 2205 motors today and been looking for a smooth motor.
But when looking at this I might just stick to 2205.
Steele motors have thrust and precise control at the bottom end of throttle curve and nothing really at the top end of throttle. Some like that, but I went back to a motor with a linear throttle curve.
What do you think of the Hobbywing 2405 2850kv motor? My friend and I just got these for our racing wings
Haven't flown them. My gut feeling... geez, that's a big motor for a 5" quad.
What do you think?
i have a question, will the PyroDrone HyperLite 2307-2522KV motors make my batteries cry and puff??
Right now that is my fav 300 gram freestyle build motor by a long shot.. it IS THAT GOOD.. that motor is not hard on batteries for what kinda power it's making... I'm flying Emax Avan-R and Dal 5x4.6x3s on the 4 builds I'm running that motor on.. the Avans do make it amp hungry for sure but the performance is just so damn good... the Dals are more manageable on all draw but not by a ton.. I'm flying mine on Tattu 1550 4s 95c R-lines and get 2 minutes 50 seconds landing at 3.6v per cell on the Dals and 2 mins 30 seconds on the Avans coming down at 3.6v.. that's hard freestyle flying... so lots of heavy throttle.. I have puffed 2 45c Tattu 1550s on a 285 gram build with the Pyrodrone/Hyperlite 2307 2522s.. running the Avan props, the 75c packs are fine with that motor and the Avans.. so a direct reply to your question if your running 45c 15xx packs (1300 premium packs will have a hard time with this motor and high current pulling props, this motor NEEDS 1500 to 1600mah packs and it NEEDS top spec packs, not run of the mill packs) you better be running a low amp pulling prop like a HQ 5x4x3 v1 ect... if you plan on running heavy thrust monster props like Dal 5x4.6x3, 5x5x3, Gemfan Flash, Emax Avan-r ECT ect... you better have premium packs and forget about 1300s, that motor NEEDS 1500 to 1600 packs that can throw down the current... I can assure you 45c packs with a heavy high power prop that the motor craves to run you are going to puff them if you fly hard at all... that motor was made to spin the baddest 5in props out and does so VERY VERY well, but you need the quality of battery that is equal to the quality of preformamce youv expect.
same here on lock nuts dont like reverse thred when you have normal and lose one you can go to any hardware shop and get a new one reverse is a bit more difficult
Joshua Bardwell Do you feel that there is a correlation between torque and throttle curve? seems logical that a wider stator would provide more torque and potentially a more linear throttle curve
+null FPV QuadMcFly's review if this motor mentions that wider stators don't seem to increase torque much.
Interesting. I'm curious what it is about the motor design that drives variance in this characteristic. Air resistance? Bell weight? Windings?
Josh, please can you explain me something or do a video about it? Look i have been seeing a lot of controversy lately with the matter of getting a different controller (a taranis) over my flysky if6x (i think its written like that , correctme if im wrong) but i would like to know the main advantages to change my controller or any cheap controller under 100 euros , over the taranis, i know it will wear out faster and all that... but i want to know it better from your lips. if its not a hassle for you please.
thanks a million from all of us that are starting in the hobby and we subscribed to you to not stop learning!¡
regards.
Thanks dude! top stuff
Didn't you soft mount the motors to reduce vibrations ? That could have helped with the heat... I think
I am finding that I prefer more efficient motors like the Lumineer 2306 2350 Kv. Those motors might be lacking a little in top end power but they are so smooth and I can get 4 minute flights out of them. I bought some Emax 2306 2400 Kv and for me dropping down to 2.5 minute flights is not worth it for the little extra power they provide.
Agree... even 4 min flight times are too short IMO. That's what I get when the wind is up flying a 128g 135mm park quad with 2 bladed 3 in props and think anything less than 5 min flight times is too little... I get 7 min on a toy protocol but "relatively" fast 35.5g gram backyard brushed FPV quad using 7mm x 20mm motors and over 6 min (in wind) on a 200 mm quad using light weight HK 5.25 in 2 blade props on 1307's using a rather heavy 24g gram cam/TX setup with it's own 2S battery making it almost 230 grams that reduces flight time a lot showing a little weight added can have a large negative effect on flight times pushing the props past their ideal drag ratio and there's an ideal sweet spot to aim for.
I'll be glad when the prop/motor/weight relationship is understood better to increase flight times. I get over an hour on my gliders;-) ... all day if I want so it makes me feel the quads we pour money into have a long ways to go and I think lighter weight batteries are the next step in that direction as well as better motor/ESC prop combinations.
What most people don't realize is that real technology involving weak force asymmetry and time dilation is being hidden and these batteries are likely already in use or just around the corner. 2.5 min is WAY too short and rather go play golf like an old man. Lumineer makes some of the best quad parts no doubt and the 2306's had my attention... thanks for posting that as reports of short flight times has held me back from getting a 3 bladed faster quad.
I wonder if the smoke was the bearing oil getting hot enough to vaporize?
Do you think is was that hot?
Hard to say. Really hard to say. The bearing oil smoking out would be consistent with the fact that the motors got more rough-feeling even though they hadn't been badly crashed.
The windings showed NO sign of damage whatsoever for what it's worth so I was really stumped where the smoke could have come from.
do you think that an infinity battery (1500) could handle the RCX 2206 V3 2400kv motors? They draw 35A on the bench with 5x4x3's.
That should be fine. That 35A on the bench is going to drop to maybe 25 in the air.
What if I want to go the other direction? Are there motors that are OK performance wise but kind to the batteries?
I would suggest anything in the 2205/2206 size, around 2400 kv. If you use a light prop then you could go up to 2600 or 2700 kv without stressing your batteries too much. Also, reducing your quad's weight as much as possible reduces the current drawn by the motors.
Hi Joshua this motor 2305 2400kv still a good choice for a budget 4s 5 inch build? Im using Mamba Mk2 and strix freestyle frame.
no dont
@@winus453 wow really the quarantine have you really bored. 6 months later 😂😂.
Btw
I have been sent it with these motors and man i love it.
😂
i hear the power, but I don't see it. what type of props were you using?
Wait so what wire gauge would you recommend with these new motors?
Good info, and funny, too! Try to get out of that studio more often!! :O WAIT! On second thought, keep that good content coming! ;)
Glad to hear your love life is good Josh. lol
I'm really not totally convinced the smoke you saw was actually smoke. Looks more like lens flare or some sort of camera artifact to me, just because of how it behaves, going straight up, rather than being blown around and downwards. I dunno, if it actually was smoking, that sounds like a pretty serious issue (and I'm surprised you would still recommend them at all, if it actually was!)
Chris Tate Definitely lens flare, you can see the small flares on the right side pivot at exactly the same rate as he rolls. Easy to mistake as smoke, but yeah, those motors are pulling so much air down, smoke would never rise like that unless the motor was stopped - pause on 13:44 and it's clear as day.
No, I really am sure it isn't lens flare. I have been over the video many times and it consistently happens when the motors are punching, regardless of where the sun is.
Look here: ua-cam.com/video/ZpU6-JY6fnk/v-deo.html
You can literally see a streamer of smoke come out of the front-right motor. Watch it at 1/4 speed.
ua-cam.com/video/Sc5x-Hd6ZCM/v-deo.html
At 53 seconds, you can see lens flare, but as expected, it is in the center of the screen, not the edge.
And here: ua-cam.com/video/Sc5x-Hd6ZCM/v-deo.html
Another streamer of smoke from the left motor, and I am not even looking anywhere near the sun.
Yes, I see it now. In the frames I was looking at there was definitely flare in that area likely masking the smoke, but in the other examples it's inconsistent with flare. Yikes! You might want to pull off the bell and see if you can get into the bearings. I bet they are BLACK.
Fair enough, I thought it was a once off, but that looks pretty convincingly like smoke. Perhaps a friction point of some sort, like bad bearing, or something rubbing a moving part of the motor, and having it burn. Pretty bad, regardless what it was causing it. Did the bearing still feel okay after the motor hotboxed your quad? No major side to side play or grinding sounds?
Honestly, these were on the shortlist for my new 6" build, but I'm kinda shying away from them when we have so many motors that don't try to catch on fire when you punch them available. Like those new brotherhobby R5s! (and you thought the r4 was mean to batteries!)
I wonder if the motor was under propped causing it to heat up. that or the bearings were junk and couldnt handle high rpms.
Hey Josh quick question what kv would you recommend for a six inch build
This motor? 2300!
Joshua Bardwell thank you very much man
but I was talking in general not this motor only thanks again
Banggood has no stock, especially of the CCW. BG says it is a clearance product, it is already sold out now, and they will not resell it again
You can also check Newbeedrone. I wonder why Banggood is out?
Newbeedrone hast high transport cost to germany (min. 22$ for 7-21 days, 28$ for 2 days with DHL). So I will look for a different supplier. Thanks for your video
Should be a way to map the response digitally to give you linear control.
I've been really disappointed with the R-Line battery. It was OK, but I felt my Infinity Race Spec were performing better. In fact, I sold the R-Line.
R-lines and adrenalines seem to be 80% hype 20% actual high performance. I have flying buddies who've had both puff with reasonable amp draw and good treatment (landing at 15ish volts, every time, charging at 1c maximum etc). IMO there are a lot of better batteries for less money. CNHL 100C and Dinogy orange v2 graphene come to mind immediately. I've had great luck with both. Never had a bad cell, never puffed, always come down warm to the touch rather than hot hot hot like my Adrenaline packs do. They also both put out more peak current, and sustain it for longer than the adrenalines. Less sag over the whole voltage range too. Just cos the pros happen to run them doesn't make them the best packs, IMO :)
You need to add in a quip about your hog and then you've pretty much nailed a Workaholics episode. ;-P
Interesting video, thanks!
Anytime I have an idea about something to do to my quad particularly antenna placement I think WWJBD? I also have never had a problem getting my nuts off.
Another lesson learned ✔
Well i did learn something today indeed :p
Joshua wants that all his nuts just to be the same LOL
Have a great week McGuyver and keep on crazy jokes!
Total newb here... but can't you change your "throttle curve" by changing your "I" in your pid tuning?
That's not at all what I does.
ua-cam.com/video/A7GUq1Kxvzk/v-deo.html
Would you say that emax2306, or other 2306 like the new tmotor need topend lipos also?
I haven't flown those motors but yeah. I don't think we're going to see anything in the 23XX or 24XX size that doesn't need a great battery. I mean, you could detune the motor so it doesn't draw massive amps, but then it won't perform either so what's the point.
Sometimes a new motor technology gives better thrust and efficiency, but that doesn't seem to be the case with these 23XX and 24XX size motors.
Thanks! Nice to know...
i'm having a bad time choosing motors, i currently use diatone silver 2450kv on my main build and love them...(they are very punchy with infinity 90c :)) Was thinking about going for 23XX for a new build but maybe 2205 2600kv can make the job for me...? Have you got any fav's in the hi-kv 22xx size? Choosing motors this days is quite hard xD
I'd just like to say that all things being equal (they aren't, but go with me here) that the power you run through a given motor, the more heat is going to be created. So, the fact that you're pulling 40-50 amps is indicator enough that they're going to run hot.
You can't simply run more power through a given motor (yeah they're a little bigger, but thermally probably not much) and not expect those motors to generate proportionally more heat. Perhaps that's why we're seeing a lot of motors making attempts at self cooling through enhanced airflow over the coils.
Or am I wrong on this?
You're not wrong, but I would hope the motor was designed to dissipate as much power as it was expected to draw.
Well yeah, but that's a bit a of a gray area I'm thinking. I'm betting motor manufacturers are starting to push the limits a bit more in terms of heat dissipation due to these high currents.
Here in Arizona, I can tell you that very few motors are capable of flying in the summertime due to excessive heat buildup. You start to see more clearly which motors are already near their thermal limit, and which aren't.
Desrtfox71 This might be irrelevant but I pull about 56 amps on my 2205 King Kongs and their cold as can be when they come down, any reason why not as warm?
Jacques RC I'm going to take a guess here and say probably a combination of two things. One, the current isn't sustained as high, for as long, as these 23mm motors, and two, maybe better ventilation. Kind of a guess though. I'd like to know if the bench testers notice motors getting warm. That might help to know how much heating is due to pure power, and how much is due to tuning issues.
Something is up with you. You are becoming a comedian!!!
4:03 you had to include it in the final video, we expected, waited, needed that joke!
What rates do you run, Josh. If you don't mind.
Betaflight defaults plus:
set rc_rate = 155
set yaw_srate = 75
Works out to, I think, 1033 on pitch/roll and 800 on yaw.
Great vid. Thanks for your 🧠 brain. Happy Easter Hope the bunny 🐇🐰 visited
Would the Efaw 2407r's be a v12? you should do a review of those if you can get your hands on some.
My review is that there is no way a mini quad sized battery (let's say 1600 mAh or less) can feed those motors.
So far people are saying they're quite efficient. So much so they came out with a 2800kv version.
I custom designed a frame at 201mm stretched X on 3mm 6K carbon plate, running Wraith 50a blheli32, Graupner Gr18 receiver and flight controller combo (btw the Gr18 receiver and FC combo flus as good as any F4 FC I have ever flew and I can program every thing right from my MZ24 PRO or MC32) Runcam Eagle2, Tramp vtx, EFAW 2407R 2500kv on either Emax Avan-Rs or Dal 5x4.6x3s with Tattu 1550 4s 95c R-lines and performance is simply spectacular.. this quad weighs in minus battery at 287 grams.. it freaking rips.. right now my fav 280 to 300 gram freestyle quad motor is the Pyrodrone/Hyperlite 2307 2522... this motor being a very close second.. on my slightly heavier builds I will likely run the EFAWs... on the Avans the amp draw is neck and neck with the Hyperlite 2307 2522 but makes noticeably more top end power and slightly more mid range power.. low end punch out power is massively more... massively more.. I can safely fly the EFAW on 75C Tattu 1550s and fly hard and not puff them.. after a hard flight the 95c packs come down no warmer then when I rip hard on my Hyperlite/Returner V4 2522s.. flight time on a hard flight where I'm hard on the throttle with a lot of full power punch outs on the Avans I'm landing at 3.6v per cell and 2 minutes 15 seconds, on a more relaxed flight 2 minutes 45 seconds.. on the Dal Cyclone 5x4.6x3s I'm getting 2 min 35 secs on a hard flight and 3 Minutes on a more relaxed flight on the 95c 1550s.. given I am sponsored by Gensace (Long time sponsored 3d heli pilot) and keep cycle counts low for the super high powered rigs and then retire them to slightly less powerful rigs, on a new pack I run 50 to 70 cycles on the stupidly over powered rigs , once I see IR numbers start to climb I move them to slightly less powerful rigs...
I haven't puffed a 75 or 95c pack on thes3 motors yet unless I just messed up and ran the back to far down not watching what I'm doing.. but that's on my not the motors... trust me the EFAWs are stunningly great motors... the build quality is stunning, performance on the baddest 5 inch props is stunning, response times are stunning, smoothness in the air is stunning... they aren't my fav motor that spot is held by the Hyperlite V4 2522 and Hyperlite 2307 2522 those are my fav motors, 270 grams or less is the V4 and over 270 gets the 2307 2522s... however if I'm breaking 300 grams with a build, well no doubt it's wearing the EFAWS and that's saying something because the Hyperlite 2307s handle up to 350 gram builds with absolute Authority. And believe it or not, the EFAWs on HQ5x4x3s pull less peak amps and lower average amps then Hyperlite V4 2522kv.. but that prop on that motor is almost a waste of time.. even tho it is th3 most accurate prop for absolute precision you can fly.
Now you have to buy some efaw 2407r 2500kv which are good efficient motors with lots of torque feel.. :) trust me on this
Heavy
IRFZ44 I know but I say it's the only downside but compared to other 2207 and 2206 it's lighter
Would they would cost a couple of cents to make? Soft mounting layer combined with tab layer. Sell sets for all motor sizes and they could maybe become build standard? Its your invention - anyone else think they would use em if Josh got em made?
Test them on the bench, or on the track. The only thing I can tell about your video is they definitely rev...
Once again I fail to put this in the comment section of the right video so this is a bit outta context. In the video about your the chameleon build you talked about the braid on the pagoda breaking afer some time. I am most definately not an RF expert but as far as I can tell it wouldn't change anything about the antenna's capabilities if you put some epoxy around the non protected parts of the braid. Might be worth a try and could possibly improve it's durability quite a bit. Espechially if you use an epoxy with slightly elastic properties. Also putting a single carbon rod or a kind of bumper out the back of the quad mght save the antenna from quite a bit of damage if the quad falls on its back, espechiallz with the stubbz version. I am aware that a thin rod probably wouln't hold up to a crash but having a cheap disposable part to absorb some of the energy might be worth it.
Josh Maxwell Just a heads up, Joshua Bardwell is some sort of RF professional.
Tony Elmore I know. I commented because "I'm" not and he is. I wanted to know whether he thinks it's a good idea or not. I also referred to the video that he made about his chameleon frame in which he talks about the coax on pagoda antennas breaking from movement which I thought might be fixable by putting some epoxy on it. Btw I only meant the part of the coax that is below the the actual antenna.
80$ is expensive for 4 motors? Did something change and I wasn’t made aware? I average 20$/motor
When you say "Hot motors" warm motors etc, any chance of actually measuring temperatures of motors you consider warm and 'too hot'. i understand the idea of judging for yourself but it would be nice to have temperatures to help guide us.
Hotter than 160 F is suspicious. Somewhere between 180 and 200 F and above, the enamel is in danger. Realistically I don't think you should push it because you don't know how hot they actually are in flight.
Ah ok, so basically where "most" people wouldn't be able to keep holding it without it hurting. That does help actually. now i know if i can comfortably hold it indefinitely then they are ok. cheers (and in case you missed my reply on a past video, and still haven't found out why a lot of pcbs have their writing on the underside. i suspect its so you can use pin headers and still read the writing after :)
@4:00 Mr. Bardwell, I don't think this is type of content you were promoting. I thought this channel was to feature most multi-rotor content. lol
The puns kill me. "Everyone and their brother"
The episode title should have been "Nuts & Screws"