Hello everyone - welcome to Episode 6 where we look at Tolerance in Islamic Spain. If you liked this - please spread word about the UA-cam channel and share on social media. Its the only way a channel like this can grow. Consider contributing on Patreon as all funds are needed and used to make videos like this possible. You can also download the podcast to go on your media player. 0:52 Chapter 1 Convivencia 8:03 Chapter 2 Abd Al Rahman I - 788 C.E. 14:35 Chapter 3 Paul Alvarus - 855 C.E.
What do you think the tolerance level was in Islamic Spain/Al Andalus? Islamic law during 711, to 1492 in the Iberian peninsula is pretty well documented. We know how the Christians were treated under Islamic rule. I've read all 3 of the books you mentioned, and the myth of Al Andalusian Paradise by Dr Morera is the most accurate. Actually it's very accurate. I spend lots of time in Spain, mainly Galicia, and am knowledge on this time period. So what are your thoughts, was it a Utopia for all races, and religions, where everyone lived happily together, or was it living hell for the non Muslims? Or maybe something in between?
@@danielp3322 lot of bla bla witout any accuracy or scientific objejectivity in studying this subject really you want to talk about tolérance in two words i will tell you Christians had freedom to live in muslim spain andalousia al andalus with all their dignity and freedom of worship during the 8centurys that muslim ruled the iberian peninsula you want to talk about intolérance what did the two catholic kings Ferdinand and Isabella do to the muslims after grenade last muslim kingdom fall in spain they exterminated every muslim présence in this part of world millions of muslims where killed tortured burned forced to migrate or leave their religion were enslaved for centuries by thé christian Inquisition courts so don't talk me about tolérance at all don't question my history there is no similiar period that the muslims oppressed Christian in this way in the whole history İslam in fact don't compare even beetween them muslim one thousand years présence in egypt irak or syria Can exterminate all christians from this countries but he didn't because he was tolerant islam one thousand years rule in india can exterminate all the hindou or boudhi but he didn't because he was tolerant it is to shame islamophobia began to distort our golden age and one of the best periods of coexistence in all hisory like the way you do
@Jamal if the christians in muslim states had to pay djizya muslim citizen had to pay zakat in the same state it was sort of taxes paid by normal citizen to the state they were not exorbitant sums but rather symbolic amounts to demonstrate the sovereignty and loyalty for the state in the other hand dhimmi came from arabic word ahl dhimma in arabic means the people of convenants the dhimmi is the one who accepted to sign convenant and peace with the muslims and became their protected they were in charged to protect his life sancitties and freedom of religion see the case is simple and there is nohting péjorative about the matter don't tell me if you don't pay muslim will kill you because presenting the case in this way is wrong if you refuse the muslim dhimma it means you refuse the peace and the convenant with them it means you declare the war and don't tell me muslim make the others go to hell because muslims of spain of andalus have Seen the hell on the earth by Christian courts of Inquisitions there is no no no similiar in the whole history muslims oppressed Christians like the Inquisition courts did to the muslims they make the them see the hell on the earth they exterminate them so do not talk to me about tolérance or dhimmi status dhimmi status was way better than that i don't care what if the christians think that muslims will go to hell in day of judgement and the others are sarassin and they want get the kingdom of heaven you don't have the Wright to crisize muslims if they think you will go to the hell in the last day all religions think they are right what is important to me the most important thing is good dealing and coexistence in this life not the coming one in this in this part of land and part of hisory in müslim spain al andalus muslims had done great job in civilisation and coexistence and Inquisition christians courts had failed in the test
Mad respect for arriving at a more complex scenario and taking the time to showcase the competing theories rather than just running with most favoured or convenient. Well done on a scholarly approach to a challenging topic!
I think the whole concept of "tolerance" is a bit too subjective here, and this is what Morera fails to take into account. If you compare Islamic states of that time with nearly any other in the world, then they were *undeniably* more tolerant but by modern, post-WW2 standards I would agree that there *definitely* was not 100% equality. You certainly can't say that, on average, Jews were treated as well in Christian lands as they were in Islamic lands... keeping in mind that The Jewish Golden Age in Spain was only possible under Islamic rule. That's not to say it was perfect though, but it does mean that it was much better. Also, the Jizya tax was mentioned as a method for conversions, but I would like to mention a few things on this point. While Jizya can indeed be explicitly used as a system of oppression by a given ruler, it's foundation certainly don't function as such. If a non-Muslim were to convert to Islam, then they would have to pay Zakat instead of Jizya, as all Muslims do, so there wouldn't be as much of a difference as many non-Islamic commentators like to argue there is. Furthermore, non-Muslims are exempt from many requirements placed upon Muslims, such as conscription into a religious war, in exchange for their payments. You must look at the context in which this system developed to understand why it makes sense. The early Caliphates had predominantly non-Muslim populations as they didn't forcefully convert conquered peoples. However, as their borders grew larger and larger, eventually the Caliphate being even larger than the Roman Empire at its height, the demand for more money and soldiers grew significantly. Because there was a general prohibition against forcing non-Muslims into military service (both because of practical and religious reasons), the rulers would just tax them a bit higher to help fund the armies instead. Obviously, this system ended up being quite efficient and a good way to ensure the advancement of the state. To be clear here, I'm generalizing. The fact is that as you go from one ruler to another, the level of tolerance can change quite a bit and it's really impossible to capture the entire scope of the discussion within a single UA-cam comment. There were Islamic rulers who would use Jizya as a method to pull higher conversion rates, while there were others who would abolish Jizya altogether. Surely though, Moorish Spain was, on average, much more tolerant than it's counterparts to the north for this time period. If it wasn't, then there's really no possible explanation how the population could've remained so heavily Christian after Islamic conquest, with no guarantee of safety from outside Christian states. While after being conquered by Muslims, at most they'd often just have to pay a bit more in taxes (and even then, receive certain exemptions as mentioned above), other cultures would almost immediately forcefully convert/slaughter entire populations after conquering them. Also keep in mind the intellectual and academic achievements of the Moors. Such things are only possible in cultures of open-mindedness. If the Moors really were close-minded, then they wouldn't have been so open to new philosophical, scientific, etc. ideas. Again, that's not to say they were as open-minded as modern liberal democracies, but they certainly were much more open-minded than most, if not all, non-Islamic cultures at the time.
To be honest with you - I found Morera's book disagreeable. He takes a very one sided view on things and uses a 21st century mind to evaluate a 10-11th century society - of course you're going to find major faults. Many times he uses examples and only gives partial information or cherry picked examples to reinforce his thesis. I'd recommend that anyone who reads his book - NOT use it as a sole means of understanding this time. However, I needed to have someone play devils advocate. As you have alluded to, Al Andalus compared to the rest of medieval Europe was a beacon on the hill. Technological, Medical, Social, Literary, and Agricultural advancements don't occur in crumbling and overly belligerent states. You need to have some tolerance and an open mind to make this possible. Thanks for your amazing response!
I see. Well, you did a really good job of staying unbiased in this video then because I wasn't able to tell exactly where you stood at all (hence my comment), which is the sign of a good historian. Great video, I'm looking forward to the next one. You definitely know your stuff
@Persiawill Riseagain you mean the truth not Muslims. am Tunisian from the Andalucian descent. my ancestors forced to leave in 1592.you are racist . without al andalus you would not see the renaissance.and today you are in decline in all fields
Great video! Loved the anecdote about the palm tree, and animation I agree that the truth is somewhere in the middle in regards to tolerance, I think by modern standards we would say life in the Cordoba Caliphate was bigoted and intolerant...but by the standards of the time it was a tolerant regime
Epimetheus You should realize there were multiple caliphates in different times, some were very unfriendly to nonmuslims, others very harsh and cruel. And I mean atleast they were better than the spainish after the andulusians were pushed out. Did like any of them survive? No. They were all told to pack their stuff or be killed.
What a great channel this is. Love to see people take an objective and well researched view on history, too many people nowadays employ revisionism to fit their bias. Thank you for the videos!
I just wanted to say a BIG thank you for this comment - I took me 3 months to read enough to feel comfortable to make this single video. Really appreciate it!
This has become one of my favourite history channels on UA-cam. You deserve many more subs than you get. I tend to agree that overall this period of Spanish History was beneficial and far more tolerant than was typical of the period. I think some historians are overly critical as they examine it by modern standards and ignore how much further advanced Muslim Spain was than the rest of Europe except for the arguably the Byzantine Empire. Certainly the Muslims were far more tolerant of other faiths then the Catholics were after the Reconquista. I have also read that the Renaissance owes much to the teachings from the famous library of Toledo, after it was recaptured.
That quote is incorrect. Imam Malik said "ANY person who offended the prophets persona was to be punished" he never stated it was a ruling affecting non-Muslims only. In fact! more Muslims died to this than any non-Muslim.
Yes but actually no. The difference here is the preferential treatment and the harsheness of the penalties. These taxes do not exist for the vast majority of people, they are very specifically targeted AT YOU instead of being just "gimme your money plz".
@@pougetguillaume4632 it's not gibz me da moneyz plz it's gibz me da money or I send dudes with guns to seize all of your assets and good luck hiring a lawyer bc we just froze your bank account
My pleasure! Yeah it took 2-3 months to read up enough to do this video. The conflicting attitudes and opinions made this endeavor like walking in a proverbial minefield
@@FlashPointHx Hi :) Yeah I know what you mean, I live in a country that has over 15 religion and over 50 denominations and sects with a secular government which is eager to keep the peace so only positive dialog is allowed. Race and Religion are sensitive topics as it is a personal part or each individual, then mix in politics such as a theocracy then you have a potential disaster coming. As a Catholic, I have found myself having to defend my faith with words from muslims to buddhist, I had to think on how to present the truth of my faith without being too aggressive. Funny enough is that their main objection to Jesus is that our God is too merciful, too kind, too generous and loving.
Thank you! Took me a while to do the work on this one. Appreciate your comments, getting a little acknowledgement for two months of research is really welcome.
I particularly enjoyed the section on John Julius Norwich. The man is a legend.. Currently gradually making my way through his three part magnum opus on Byzantium.
I agree - impressive person. You can tell in his writing he is brilliant. He also has a very dry sense of humor I really like. I'm jealous you are reading the three volume history!
We need to remember that with any great civilization comes harm and sometimes evil after all these civilizations are made by humans and humans are not perfect
What this tells me is that a “multicultural” system must be authoritarian and dominated by one of the groups it contains. Otherwise, it will be a dysfunctional mess with everyone at each other’s throats. Note that today’s definition of “multicultural” is that each of the constituent groups live in freedom on an equal basis and that there is a high degree of willing cultural exchange and that no particular culture is better than any of the other cultures. I don’t think this has existed to any significant degree in history for very good reasons. It is against human nature and it won’t work.
That’s excellent insight - it’s human nature to feel superior to anyone that is not ‘you’. How many civilizations have refered to anyone else as ‘barbarians’? You need a strong secular state to establish law and order and then and only then can you have multiculturalism. Otherwise more times than not all you have is a bloodbath.
+ Kevin Balch + There are many examples, in recent history that support your observation. Even through the turbulent times of the cold war, and for some years after the fall of the Iron curtain, Yugoslavia, a multi-cultural state, remained peaceful, and actually thrived, relative to other communist, eastern-block countries. Upon the death a Tito, who had ruled Yugoslavia, as a nominally neutral, "non-aligned nation" since the end of WW II, the federation of it's component ethnic republics, flew to pieces. In the 1990's, what followed was a decade of bloody ethnic conflicts, that rocked a European continent, desperate for peace. One by one, the ethnically-based republics, and even the multi-cultural melting pot of Yugoslavia, Bosnia-Hertzogovina, battled their way to independence, in a series of bloody wars, that in some ways exceeded the brutality of WW II. Without the unquestioned authoritarian rule of the highly respected war hero, Tito, the different ethnic groups found more reasons to leave the unified Federation, despite a great cost in human lives, & physical destruction of private property, and infrastructure, than they could find to remain linked to their former federated states.. One need not look to exotic locales like Sri Lanka, Rwanda, Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, or the former USSR where Ukrainians, still battle the rival Russian culture, to remain free of it. The Ukraine is not the only ongoing civil war, even in the current year, 2018, that tests the myths surrounding multi-culturalism, and strength from diversity. The once bifurcated Yemen, united as one nation since 1990, is now riven by a bloody tribal conflict, that bears no relationship the original North/South division. of that relatively new nation. Evidence that seems to contradict the popular narratives, glorifying the benefits of multi-culturalism, and the questionable mantra "Diversity is our Strength." Academic research into diversifying neighborhoods, in this country, identified 2 significant products of diversity: Increasing numbers of political protests, and rising crime rates. Who is really surprised, that few, if any, benefits can really be linked to greater levels of diversity, or multi-culturalism? KOut
There was NO multicultural Utopia in the Iberian peninsula during the Muslim conquest. This myth was started fairly recently. It was impossible, because under Muslim rule, the people in Iberia (the Spanish, and Portuguese) could not just convert to Islam, and become a citizen. The women could, but not the men. It's well documented that after the Muslim invasion in 711 the remaining Christians that couldn't flee to the north were now under Muslim rule, and were treated horribly. Many were enslaved, but for the ones that were not, they had to live as Dhimmi, and pay jizya(tax), which were 3rd class that had no rights. They couldn't ride horses, use weapons, carry weapons, they had to wear distinct markers to identify themselves, really for humiliation. There were many more rules that made it very hard to live. They couldn't raise their voices at a Muslim. The Muslims from the middle east were the ruling class, then the north Africans, the Berbers. The only Christian that weren't enslaved were people with skill sets, people that they needed. The women could marry in, and become a citizen, but the men could not, and after a short period of time there were no more Christians(Portuguese, and Spanish). This was evident when a city, or region would be taken back by the Christian during the Reconquista(the reconquest), there would be no free Christians, only slaves. When Granada was taken back Queen Isabella, and king Ferdinand had the chains from the slaves taken to Toledo, and hung on the outside of a cathedral as a reminder to never let another invasion happen again. They still hang today approximately 500 years later. I've been there, and It's a creepy sight to see. This was common during the reconquest, every time they took back a city there were no free Spaniards, bust slaves which were freed. The myth of an Al Andalus where all races, and religions lived happily together in peace is just that, a myth. It's actually impossible under Muslim law at the time.
I get a sense that a lot of revisionist historian work is to play here. Have you read the book Kingdoms of Faith, By Brian Catlas? He gives a really good middle of the road view.
Good research and naration, but I want to correct you on two things if you allow 1) Many of the early mosques in North Africa and Spain were build with wrong direction. The directions were not established quit good yet. For example famous mosques like Qarawin Mosque, Zaitouna Mosque and even in large amounts, take for example nearly all mosques of the Old City of Qasba in Algeria. Ibn Habib, a 9th century philosopher and scientist from Córdoba, mentions that the direction of Mecca is to the rising of the star Alfasco, which is quit good. However this is about a century later than the building of the Great Mosque of Rahman i. If I am not mistaking it is also mentioned by Al Thahabi, a 13th century historian from Damascus, that a prince in Córdoba wanted to alter the direction of the Mihrab but he was advised not to by the court. 2) Secondly: it is not quit correct what you mentioned about Imam Malik saying that non- moslims must be punished if they insult the Prophet. This is not enirely true since this holds also for Muslims as Imam Malik said. Furtheremore he declaired that in the case of non-moslims they are not nescessarily excecuted but can repent from there fault, but if someone is a Muslim than they should be executed. I want to end with thanking you for the effort and beautifull series on history you are making, I liked it very much, keep them coming!
I really want to thank you for this comment - it makes sense that early mosques were not pointing in the correct direction - astronomy and cartography what it was. I got the implication that The Great Mosque was intentional built this way from Maria Menocal’s book. Considering the advances that Al Andalus made and the many extensions to this mosque that occurred, I’m surprised they didn’t later correct it. I’m also really glad you brought up your second point, in fact you’re not the first to mention this about he Imam that I mentioned. I was directly quoting this statement from Dario Morera’s book and I always felt like he was distorting the truth for the benefit of his thesis. I’m not a big fan of his work. As for making these videos - entirely my pleasure, I’m happy you liked them and appreciate your input. The next two videos are up, please let me know what you think and share the video if you don’t mind. All the best!
@@FlashPointHx The historian Dan Gibson has quite a different explanation for why Qibblas did not point toward Mecca (see the excellent video on You Tube "The Sacred City"). That explanation fits very well with the on going political friction between the Muslim fractions of the time. The earliest Qibblas pointed fairly accurately toward Petra, so it was not a matter of not knowing direction. I also have to call into question the idea of Moslem culture as the preserving beacon of literature and knowledge. The great library of Alexandria was burnt by the Moslems. It seems Islam ended it's own "golden age" of Arabic culture and knowledge.
@@FlashPointHx Very thought provoking video> ua-cam.com/video/qOnGvzVceVo/v-deo.html Mr. Gibson presents some interesting arguments, a lot of which are confirmed by archeological evidence, There is no historical evidence that current day Mecca existed before 741 AD, and the references in the Quran point to a place that had vegetation that never grew in Mecca (Grapes and olives).
@@sweynforkbeard8857 we knew how to write before islam if this is true we would have written it. Do you know how big is this thing?? Don't you think that if this happened it would be mentioned in a book or something.
The only Christian scriptures written in Greek are the new testament books. Saint Jerome translated the entire old and new testaments into Latin in the 300s AD, and Jerome's translation remained the dominant version of the Bible used in Catholic Europe until the Reformation.
@@mahmud8982 Well the New Testament documents were written in Greek, probably because Greek was more widely-spoken in that time and place and the disciples wanted to spread the word about Jesus of Nazareth. Greek was a popular second language, like the English of its day. If the New Testament documents were written in Aramaic, then they could only share the message with people in and around the Levant area, where Aramaic was spoken. With Greek they could go into Egypt, Anatolia, Greece, Rome, and further west.
Well, how do you define "your country" and "foreigner"? Moors existed in Spain for 800 years, that's much longer than existence of MANY modern nation states, and surely longer than Europeans know of Americas, Australia, New Zealand etc. So, technically, Moors could be considered "domestic" after such a long period of time. Secondly, Spaniards themselves are a mixture of a variery of conquerors (Romans, Visigoths etc.)
Hazim Halvadžija No. Iberians have, of course, received genetic heritage from Germanic tribes and Romans but they remain mainly iberian natives. The Moors are African, not Iberians.
personally I am not a historian but a student of history. and it is necessary to remember that the coexistence between the different factions of the Andalusian was only for reasons of economy. It is also necessary to understand that the paradise would be only in Cordoba and in the return of the capital, all the rest of the peninsula iberia was the iron and fire
I’d say that there was tolerance in the more urban centers. Granada has a Jewish Vizier (who I will mention in the next episode), Toledo was big into the multicultural thing, but otherwise there was a considerable amount of revolt and blood shed. But for medieval Europe it wasn’t bad
lol "only for reasons of economy" as if that mattered anywhere else in the world. they could just pushed every no mulsim out as the Spanish did later but they didnt... had nothing to do with the economy bud.
I would say something a little different, it was tolerable for anyone who could afford all the others saw their land stolen and their family slaves ...
As a side-note on the Jizzya : it is usually an alternative ti Zekkat and a dimmi could technically be spared paying it if he or able bodied male of his family joins the Islamic army and serves his term since conscription was not obligatory on dimmies but I am unsure if this was applied in Ummyad Andalusia
The tolerance seems never to be objective but a reality resulted of stalemate, if one power grew too strong the one will suffer and if the one weakened the other will dominant
Amazing video and a great channel. Also, this is a very even handed approach to one of the most divisive questions out there. You do an exceptional job, certainly much better than other channels approach the topic. I've enjoyed watching your videos while reading for my preparation to go back to uni for my Postgrad Middle Eastern studies.
Impressive - what is your focus of study in the Middle East ? I always found this a period in history that seems to be neglected. The more I look into it, the more fascinating it is. I’m happy you liked my content. The next two videos should be up soon.
DIGITAL CTHULHU this video is an explicit defense of Islamic imperialism. It seems to me that imperialism promotes tolerance. I say we ramp up the imperialism in the Muslim World give them a little taste of their own medicine. Like he says al-andulas lasted for seven hundred years- so we’ve got 650 years more American imperialism to go.
One thing to note about the Martyrs of Cordoba: These people who decried Islam in Cordoba were the children of Islamic men and (mostly) Christian women, and by renouncing the faith of their fathers and embracing the faith of their mothers were charged with apostasy, which came with a death sentence in many places of their world.
Nothing new on the world stage - and compared to what was going to happen in the latter 11th and 12th c on the other end of the Mediterranean, where killing infidel became state policy of the Urban II and later Innocent III papacy, this was a flesh wound.
Sorry - that was supposed to be a *the* and not a *their* ! The Martyrs are pretty fascinating in and of themselves - people who willingly sought martyrdom/death in defiance of the existing legal and religious order, which wasn't actively trying to kill them. If I remember correctly, there was something like 100 "martyrs" over the following decades that came to the Cordoban court and followed Eulogious' example.
The numbers I’ve read vary between 50 to 80 in the acute time period - but more followed soon enough. 100 would not be unreasonable. You seem well versed - why the fascination with the martyrs?
I was fortunate to take a class on Islamic history under Fred Donner a few years ago. He put me onto them for a final paper which surveyed the textual evidence when it came to the martyrs, which is actually pretty sparse - Eulogious and Alvarus are pretty much the only surviving sources we have on them. What's also interesting is that both of these men write a good bit on increasing interest in Arabic writing and language, scolding their fellow Christians who do so while exalting Latin writings. So right in the middle of Abd- al-Rahman II's reign, a former civil servant of the Umayyad administration named Isaac, seemingly without provocation, walked into the qadi's court, insulted the prophet Muhammed, and pleaded with the qadi to convert to Christianity. The qadi reportedly slapped him across the face and suggested that he must be either drunk or insane. Isaac assured him that he was in the right mind, so the qadi had him imprisoned and informed the emir. Isaac was beheaded for public blasphemy, and the emir circulated an edict warning that anyone else who sought to emulate his behavior would receive the same punishment. Over the next five days, 8 more Christians came forward and mimicked Isaac. This prompted Abd al-Rahman II to seek out Bishop Reccafreddus to arest and imprison the local Christian clergy to bring pressure on the local Christian population, and for a time it seemed to have worked - but the summer brought with it a new wave of executions for pubic blasphemy. A marked change happens with Eulogious' writings after he and the rest of the Christian clergy are imprisoned. He becomes critical of both the Islamic authorities and the Christian leadership, and paints the martyrs as suffering under both a tyrannical regime and having to defend and justify their actions from their own fellow faithful. So most of what he wrote on the martyrs are what we would today call *eulogies* where he gives a short background on the individual martyr's life, and then extols their virtues (in addition to giving a summary of events as he saw them). What's particularly interesting about reviewing the many eulogies that he gives is that the lives of these people were incredibly similar in certain ways. First, these martyrdoms differed from those of the Roman days in that nearly all of the people killed purposefully spoke ill of the prophet Muhammed or Islam right in the middle of the Islamic court, knowing full well that doing so would mean their own death. Second, nearly all of them had connections to Cordoban monasteries, many of which were miles outside the city limits, and generally practiced a fairly strict asceticism; Eulogious depicts the martyrs as ascetically-minded, and intensely concerned about questions regarding their salvation. And third, the martyrs can be very neatly divided into two distinct groups: (1) priests and monks, most of which were executed for committing acts of public blasphemy against Islam, and (2) those who came from mixed families and publicly professed Christianity, a rejection the faith of their fathers, and were thus executed as apostates. While both of our sources are problematic at best, the reconstructions of Colbert, Coope, and Wolf offer radically different takes on events as written. Colbert does a pretty thorough survey of Eulogious' and Alvarus' work; Coope argues that the martyrs were attempting a radical assertion of Christian identity, fundamentally opposed to Islam, in a time of increasing assimilation and insecurity; Wolf points out that both of the former pretty much take Eulogious at his word, mostly because he seems sufficiently removed from the events as they are unfolding, but that in turn seems to indicate that he wasn't a significant part of the movement itself, only ever having been personally affiliated with a small number of them. His writings, after all, would not be subject to censure by the Islamic government. Like, holy hell, dude. That shit's cray.
You seemed liked you knew what you were talking about - didn’t realize you had this much insight! It’s amazing what people do if motivated by religious insight. Part of the reason why the crusade era fascinates me so much. What motivates someone to kill or be killed for thier faith? I remember the last time I was in Jerusalem - passing from the Jewish to the Muslim quarters of the city was enough to draw stares.
This is quality work. Presentation, music and images are all first rate. As a vocal snob, I really enjoy your speaking voice. Fits very well with your stories.
I really appreciate the comment - there is so much expression that goes into the way one tells a story. I don't think many realize how important inflection and tone are in this process. I'm curious - what do you do that makes you a "vocal snob?" Again, thanks for the kind words
Two things. I've been studying classical voice for the past 17 years or so. As a volunteer, I spent a few years recording news items for blind people as well as recording books for an org called Librivox. As you say, tone and inflection are important. Not to everyone, of course. But it does make a difference.
Wow - you’re an expert at this then. Lovely that you help out the blind as well. I volunteer my time for a website called Ancient History Encyclopedia - narrating the entries on ancient history. You should take a look.
Yes!!! Everyone goes to see the Topkapi palace and the blue mosque / jaguar Sophia (which need to be seen as well) however - grab a lunch, and hike out to the walls of Theodosius II - especially to an area known as the golden gate. Those walls held back invaders for over 1000 years.
The imported works including Plato and Aristotle and many other scientific manuscripts of mathematics astronomy etc eventually came from Byzantium, which the Arabs translated to Arabic later. You can also see the elements of influence of Byzantium in the architecture of mosques in Corduba as you said.
Correct - but the Arab world of the Abassids also translated the works of the Greeks and spread it through the Islamic world. The Byzantine always has these works and spread it to Europe as well.
The Abassids translated the ancient greeks from byzantium, this is testified by Ibn Khaldun in the Muqadimmah and as well as by other muslim authors. This is what khaldun says about the abassids: "Abu Ja'far al-Mansur, therefore, sent to the Byzantine Emperor and asked him to send him translations of mathematical works. The Emperor sent him Euclid's book and some works on physics. The Muslims read them and studied their contents. Their desire to obtain the rest of them grew. Later on, al-Ma'mun came... He sent ambassadors to the Byzantine emperors. (These ambassadors were) to discover the Greek sciences and to have them copied in Arabic writing. He sent translators for that purpose (into Byzantine territory). "You should read the book Byzantium viewed by the arabs, there it mentions also that the byzantines were also sending books as gifts to cordoba, for example emperor Romanus sent the book of dioscurides, and they also sent mosaics in order to decorade the mosque of cordoba. I mean the contribution of byzantium to the islamic world should not be underestimated.By the way I like your videos, and your naration of the historical events.
I agree - but something should also be said of the contribution of the Islamic world to the rest of Europe as well. I’m really glad you like the videos! I go more into the cultural heritage of Al Andalus in the next episode - let me know what you think!
And my second arguement is that byzantium mostly prefered diplomacy rather than wars and subjugations. The expansion of the empire by Justinian was an attempt to restore the roman empire to its former territory. About the rest you mentioned i agree.
This is also true, many european medieval intellectuals mention the works of aristotle for example through arab authors. For example like Roger Bacon who mentions aristotle as it seems through the arab author Averroes. So yes you are right about the arabic influence as well. But i see it more as a chain of events that was sparked by the abassid but with the contribution of byzantium as well. Anyway one can have his arguements. But i do like your chanel so i subscribed.
A most bizarre quote, indeed, is the one from the woman who wrote that the increasing adoption of the Arabic language was for a reason that is "outside of faith and _may even contradict it_ ." That's an argument that Islam is a false religion. That makes her overall thesis schizophrenic. Internal contradictions annoy me.
Do one on Spain and how the British and Dutch exaggerated and even outright lied about the Spanish in the Americas. Even today the Black Legend still exists.
@Genghis Khan Black Legend? They would make up lies about how the Spanish treated the Natives. In one instance they fabricated a lie that the Spanish would feed Natives to their dogs. They even made an engraving of the fallacious event. "A 1598 engraving by Theodor de Bry of a Spaniard feeding slain women and children to his dogs. De Bry's works are characteristic of anti-Spanish propaganda which was a result of the Eighty Years' War." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend_(Spain)
Lmao YESSS! English translation of Columbus journal says it all! Exposes hundreds of years of scholarly bias if you look at original untranslated text. Red pill on Columbus that PC culture doesn’t want you to know.
Superb, by far and away the most balanced and intellectually satisfying of any vid else I have seen on here. The Muslims tore down the churches to build Mosques with the stone, the same stone was used from the torn down Mosques to build Churches! The old Basilica, on the Placa de la Virgin in Valencia stands on and is made from the Mosque that once stood there...
Thank you - I’m glad you liked the video. Once I started doing the research for this, became very apparent there are no clear cut answers to what happened and how tolerant the society was.
J M N a propagandist is gonna propaganda. Got use all the arrows in your quiver if you are going to be a fifth columnist and justify brutal Islamic conquest.
@@dannytallmadge2161 brutal? enriching culture and building monuments that stay till this day vs completely killing originals in the americas? which one is brutal in your opinion?
waseem rajab The Spanish built a lot of buildings across their holdings, many of which are quite beautiful. Just because you build doesn’t mean you aren’t brutal.
It is rather interesting. In Al Andalus, a Muslim ruling state, there are Christians writing "against" Islam. While I understand that the penalties were brutal, I cannot imagine any other place in that point of history or centuries to come, where such thing could actually happen. Could Jews write against Christians? Was there any society at Medieval times where such thing could happen? This, by itself, proves the level of tolerance. For us, of course, now this seems brutal and oppressive how they were dealt with (or does it, imagine a Muslim today in France or Germany writing a book against Christianity, or a Kopt in Egypt writing a book against Islam - I think they would be burned by a mob).
You bring up a really good point - if we interpret what happened then with a 21st century prospective - yes its barbaric. But if you compare it to the time - where most of the world was ruled by despotism, this was a very progressive place.
@@FlashPointHx Crazy part is, even today, in some places these topics are so sensitive, that what happened in Al Andalus would look like a good day for humanity.
@@blablabla1044 This is still a hotly debated topic today - researching for this episode took me three months and I can tell you there is a lot of bias even in the most respected of books
@@FlashPointHx For sure. I think you did great. We really need a better understanding of the past so these "different worlds" today can understand each other better, instead of alienating others.
There's a Museum built in St. Augustine Florida that is a replica of a Moorish Palace. You reminded me of this when you mentioned the cultural effects that are still felt.. of course this is just a museum built about 100 years ago (i think) but in St. Augustine?? I don't know much about it, maybe some Spaniards built it...
No kidding! I have family who live in Orlando and they have been wanting to take me up to St. Augustine for some time. One of the oldest cities in America. I love Mudejar style. There is a reason that Game of Thrones filmed "Dorn" in the Alcazar of Seville.
Nah orientalist art and architecture is a recurring motif in modern Western cultures including the US. Especially popular in 19th century romanticism era. In fact, US writer Washington Irving was one of the earliest writers to spark international interest in the Alhambra in the 19th century. Without American popular interest in the "exotic" orient, the Alhambra likely would have fell even further into disrepair and who knows how much would've been lost.
interesting - you're saying that it was Orientalism that preserved the Alhambra. Does this go along the same lines that Victor Hugo's books saved the Notre Dame? @@grontelp77
The audio keeps cutting in and out. I’m watching on chrome cast and just a heads up (I can’t tell in chrome cast because it doesn’t tell me) if you are uploading 60fps the first 2 generations(the vast majority of people) of chromcast cut in and out. It’s a known issue since a year ago after an update. They don’t seem to plan on fixing it. Basically I’m telling you so that you keep your plays going as I know a lot of people, like myself, cast videos
The tolerance was not limited to Spain. It was a policy typical of Islam towards all conquered people , such as Jews and Christians, considered people of the Book.
Tolerance is a pretty light word considering all of their policies were geared towards getting people to convert by making it inconvenient to be Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian, etc. they were treated as second class citizens.
I mean it's debatable but one thing about this topic that cannot be a myth or a lie is that living as a Christian or a jew in Muslim Spain was way more safe than living as a Muslim or a jew in a Christian kingdom in Europe. Yeah the jizya was intolerant but that was way more better than getting deported to a land your ancestor lived in 600 years ago like what happend with the spanish inquisition.
Si vos ancêtres ne seraient pas venu en Hispania, Il y aurait eu des expulsions de musulmans ??? Il y aurait eu des siècles de guerres ?? Il y aurait eu de l'esclavagisme sexuelle ?? Si les musulmans ne serait pas venu en HISPANIA CHRÉTIENNES RIEN NE SERAIT ARRIVÉ Maintenant continué a raconté des conneries Et si vous avez le courage répondez. À qui la faute?? Vous avez récolté ce que vous avez semé Guerre et soufrance ☪️🤮🧹🧹🧹
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” Aristotle Sounds like F. Scott Fitzgerald was riffing/ paraphrasing on this, in the quote mentioned by the narrator (who sounds like the narrator for the 'Momento Mori'', videos). Either way, good stuff and these episodes are worthy of attention. I'm curious who is financing them. Thank you.
Im happy you like the content. I sent you an email as well. But no one actually finances these videos - except myself. I do get donations from Patreon and some ad rev from youtube. But this makes my project budget neutral more than anything.
You are not curious to know who is financing the project, you are alluding to dodgy sources and probably also trying to create doubt in people's minds... Who's paying you for that, may I ask ?!
18:00 im pretty sure it was not just islam. Anyway that attacked any other religion was punished. Also there was an intolerance to a degree but it was not as suffocating as that guy seems to claim. How else could they golden age of Jewry happen if it was?
Morera is no more than an average man of the street trying to influence people who may know a lot more than he does... Morera is the epitome of a mediocre author, biased and prejudiced !!!
Maybe you could also make a separate playlist for this whole period as I think it’s one of the most crucial set of videos in this was of the worlds series?
Happy that you liked the video and any donation is appreciated. The intro song is Desert Caravan which is in the UA-cam archive for free download (along with a lot of others that are really good). I have all the songs to my videos in the description .
The narrator doesn’t even mention that jihad and holy war against the infidel was one of the most significant motivating force for Muslims to invade Spain. Islamic jihadists invaded Spain and destroyed the thriving and flowering Visigothic culture that existed there and then subjugated the population and imposed their religious laws on them. Just look up the martyrs of Córdoba and then try and tell me all about this tolerant, multicultural and pluralistic Islamic rule in Spain. All we need to do is look at the tolerance of Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries today to see a window into the past. How anyone can argue that medieval fundamentalist Muslims were tolerant of other religious view points in medieval Spain is beyond laughable.
Love your videos, I'm half Mexican and although I identify more with the Mayan side of this heritage, I know my Spanish ancestors were from Cordoba so I am extremely curious about the history of Al - Andalus.
Hey I'm a student of Islamic history and modernism .. I have some questions that I am not able to find out .. I'm refferening them here .. if you can plz incorporate them in ye vedios .. my exams are in decemeber-january so if you can help me I'll be more then glad
The moral of all this is that Spain should watch their immigration . Otherwise they would be into another period of being tolerated in their own country. Or not much better, become like London. As regards revisionist history, they shouldn't let foreigners living in Spain pretending to know it all, just because they watched a TV series or two paid by Arab oil money
Let’s not forget “the dark ages” never happened. It’s just one of those fictional narratives that have become so ingrained in culture and education, that it seems impossible to exercise.
I'm always cautious of eurocentrism in some bias in UA-cam videos, but these seem very measured, even if some of the comments seem to be coming from the LARPing "Deus Vult" crowd. Great job!
imo jizyah/zakat far more advantages for citizen than tax in our world today. Not everyone need to pay jizyah (age/wealth etc) while muslim need to pay zakat also based on (age/wealth etc) so it kind of meticulous system compared to' one for all' which being practiced in modern world today. another example we can refer the interest system in financial. while islamic financial absolutely abolish interest based financial compared to modern world today which a big plus for public, but might not favor by bankers. after listening and reading about the way islamic golden age conduct business practices, makes we want to implement some of those beneficial practices in my business. efficient & effective are always my main objectives in doing things.
I like your objectivity, it's a bit rare to find objective researchers on such subjects. But I have an objection to what you said about why people converted to Islam & (Jizia) in the last part of the video. In Islam we have something called Zakah , a kind of charity which is obligatory on any able Muslim (Able Muslims have an annual income of about 4500 $) which is way more than the amount of Jizia. I hope you research this point. I love your videos. Thanks.
I came across this charity as you mention. But from the sources that I've read - and many are from esteemed professors and researchers in the field, they all mentioned that avoidance of the Jizia was a motivation for conversion. There were other references that I came across, that conversion was forced - but I found that not to be consistent. Again, the history that I give is a culmination of several sources put together to give as best of a "middle of the road" approach that I could. Happy that you liked the video.
17:33 I mean by that definition all Muslim would technicly ruled by Theocratic system until a literal birth of nation state because Islam certainly have no need to seperate between religion and the state before. Come to think of it Islam is the most successful fusion between Religion and the Law and the State isn't it? Which ironicly come to haunt them in the current political enviroment. Edit : I live and are part of Muslim majority country and i say the treatment of Ummayad wouldn't be that far diffrent that is today(minus the harsh punishment unless you go to Aceh) is that we're willing to treat people with other religion as a normal human being as long the Islam superiority is not unchallanged.
I think it was quite a tolerant place and followed Islamic principles regarding protection for non Muslims living there fairly well. It is important to note however that tolerance doesn’t mean equality. Muslims living under the emirate naturally had more privileges because they follow the state religion, it’s the same with the Spanish empire and Christianity.
Good points. It also depends on which time period. There were periods under the Almohads and the Almoravids that tolerance was at a low point. Conversely under Christianity - as time progressed and the further you got into the frontier region, the harsher conditions were. When the Spaniards took over, Muslims and Jews had very little convivencia
Flash Point History weird. Generally invaders and their middle men collaborators are treated great. One wonders why the sepoy (who after all lived in a period of British enforced tolerance in India far better than now for sure) were so eager to attack English tolerance bringers (imperialist sounds so out dated) and their Indian collaborators.
Depends on the precise time and what part of Spain / France. I would have loved to have lived during the high point of Cordoba during the reign of Abd Al Rahman III. think it would have been fascinating.
@@FlashPointHx really you would have liked to have lived in an era without modern medicine were you could be beheaded for blasphemin the Muslim faith where your freedom of speech is no where like modern America.
Best place to live was the christian land, especially the Kingdom of Leon, people who scarcely knew the feudal regime, and that acknowledge the most freedom, fathers of Parlamentarism and Representative Democracy in the world, Cortes del Reino de Leon 1188, confirmed by UNESCO.
Islam promotes tolerance لَّا يَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمۡ يُقَٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِي ٱلدِّينِ وَلَمۡ يُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَٰرِكُمۡ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ وَتُقۡسِطُوٓاْ إِلَيۡهِمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِينَ (Sahih International) Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. -Surah Al-Mumtahanah, verse 8 Islam promotes kindness ۚإِنَّ رَحۡمَتَ ٱللَّهِ قَرِيبٞ مِّنَ ٱلۡمُحۡسِنِينَ Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good. -Surah Al-A'raf, verse 56
The unfortunate probability is that had Spain (or Al-Andalus) kept three distinct faith and ethnic communities into the 20th century we would have seen a Spanish ethno-religious civil war on the par with former Yugoslavia. The Spanish civil war that did happen in the 1930s is infamous for its brutality. Imagine it with ethno-religious hatreds flaring up. There would’ve have probably been multiple conflicts every 3 or 4 decades with very little resolution as in former Yugoslavia. Please don’t take it as advocacy for brutal expulsion of non-Christians by Isabella and Ferdinand and other medieval Iberian kings.
Not brutal expulsion, the kings did with they must, we were fighting to unify again our nation, and those foreign ethnics were dreaning the wealth of Spain, the jews and conspiring with the ottomans, the moriscos, the moment we became ourselves again with no enemies inside, Spain became the world superpower and spreaded christianity, western civilization and a civilizstion of joy worldwide, I think you all are not taking into account that those spaniards were the sons of the Atlantida and the inheritors of Greece and Rome.
It should be compared to contemporary states like say France/Burgundy etc. When you do it is quite something. Today when we see say Saudiarabia it should be compared to contemporary rich/oil states like ...Norway? Not that impressive then...
Saudi Arabia is an extreme example. There are something like fifty-ish Muslim-majority countries in the world and they're all different. Islamophobes love to talk about Saudi Arabia to justify their hostility to all Muslims, but Saudi Arabia is ruled by an oppressive dictatorship that by definition doesn't represent its people. Moreover, Saudi Arabia has less than 30 million people, whereas the Muslim world is made up of 1.5 billion. Also you're not taking a lot of other factors into account, like colonialism. There are reasons why an oil-rich country in imperialist Europe might be better off than an oil-rich country in the third world.
@@kawadashogo8258Saudi Arabia is an extremist state. Norway is also an extreme example being in a peaceful and stable corner off the world. I guess most muslims live in Pakistan-India-Bangladesh, that is the "typical" muslim just like the most numerous western person is a US one? I have no hostility to muslims as such, even if I have strong prejudice against religious regimes (The papal state, Iran, Saudi, North Korea etc). All empires get colonies or conquests, it is nothing specific for European (past) empires...
@@kawadashogo8258 Imperialist Europe? Yes, we all remember hearing the phrase, "The sun never sets on the Norwegian Empire" or how common the Norwegian language is...
Kawada Shogo lol apostasy is outlawed in every Muslim majority nation of the OIC. Know them by their fruits. That’s a wonderful passage little Mo (cuz his dick was tiny) didn’t get around to plagiarizing.
The production on this video is top notch but you spend far too much time talking about irrelevant topics like Rahman’s palace and aqueducts, and Byzantium. Good job!
Convivencia is most likely a myth. Just because Muslims don't outright exterminate the subjugated population, it does not automatically imply a tolerant coexistence. For people arguing that "there were no Muslims in Europe in 700AD," like no shit. Christianity was practically native to Europe, the Islamic invasion of Spain is why there was "co-existence" in the first place. Of course, Europe and Constantinople aren't gonna let the population of an active hostile faction enter their territory en mass. Sure, one can't argue with the cultural and technological achievements during this time. However, if Islamic Spain were truly tolerant, why were there so many uprisings (even during its peak golden ages) that had to be brutally put down?? I highly doubt it's simply due to the discontent for Jizya either.
So when the iberians were converting to islam how did they do it in the rural areas would a certain village embrace it suddenly or did the members one by one convert?
Usually the more metropolitan areas would be incorporated first and then later the more rural areas would eventually convert. It was a process of time and forced conversion was the exception rather than the rule
@@FlashPointHx what I meant was imagine a village in Iberia with 15 houses if one of the people in it converts the people of the community will look down at him which would make it hard for a village member to convert but did it happen?
@@Janisary-yh8zp As time went by, Islamic rulers became more orthodoxy and strict in their rule. There was incentive to convert as you didn't need to pay the Jizya tax. Whats more, the official language of administration was Arabic and so to get ahead, sometimes converting helped. I read a stat that by the end of the 11th century 80% of the population under the Caliphate of Cordoba was Muslim. So this would imply that even in rural areas people would convert
The stories I heard as a child all point to the Muslims being brutal. They would take mothers and sisters. Why do you think Pelayo did what he did? To try and save his sister. You need lots to learn man.
I have ! It’s part of my collection - he focuses on the Crusade aspect of the Reconquista. Catlas’s book just came out last year. I’ve read everything from Menochal to fierro, Kennedy to O’callaghan, and even Morera. Catlas is a good ‘middle of the road’ view
@@FlashPointHx No offense but your videos seem one sided too. At least he has numerous footnotes that point out to a lot of first hand sources (many of these were in languages beside English). I strongly suggest that you and him should have an online debate regarding the history and impact of the Islamic rule on Spain - your point of view versus his take on Islamic history in Hispania.
@@johndorilag4129 Dario wrote his book with the sole intention of justifying his anti-Muslim worldview, i.e. it was written through the lens of islamophobia.
According to historian Ameer ali. The jizzya was most times less than zakat. ( jizzya and zakat are both taxation for common good.) It was the reason many non muslims opted to stay in their own religion due to less taxation. But those who adopted Islam were those who valued the principles of Islam . Of only One God ,the creator of all. And the universal brotherhood of Man. Human dignity is most holy.
Great videos. Loved the whole serie. The argument that it was a theocracy and that people who mocked there religion were killed isn`t a good one. That was at most empires. Many Christians killed others too because they spoke against the bible. Rome after Constantin also forced Christianity onto everyone. That`s why no older religion survived in Europe. What happened after the Moors was even worse, they tried to errase that history in Spain. No Muslims were spared. All had to change there names and become Christian. But al that isn`t an example of glorious life. Like you said, the freedom of some came at the price of many more others. Romans were free because the slaves did the hard work... Cheers.
Exactly - but the portion of Theocracy was taken directly from Morera who I added as devils advocate. I’m not fond of his polemic work. Very one sided. Give me time - will hit up the reconquista soon enough.
I know. I had better frased that it was his argument... I`m very interested in the reconquista. And the Spanish Inquisition. I red a Spanish History book, very vage on those subjects. The mores maybe 2 pages. And then heroic about Franco and whole chaptors of the civilian war and then the reign of Franco. It was an old book. But I learned spanish with it. I`m from Belgium Flanders. Most here don`t know anything of our history. The 1st and 2nd war ok. But not further. It`s hard to find a lot of information, but with a lot of pieces you can fill the puzzel in your head. Pitty that most of what we know of history is censored by many thru time. History is everywere. Keep up the good work.
Yeah it’s kind of interesting. I’m a Berber from the Rif (northcoast of Morocco). There are a lot of descendents there. Can you make a serie about the Barbary pirates in the future?
@@GreeneyesSalma Not sure if I'll have time for the Barbary pirates - hoping to get to the Mughals soon. As for the Rif - I've been there! I took a tour of Morocco with a friend a few years back. We traveled from Casa Blanca to Rabat to Fez and then across to the Ziz valley and on the Western Sahara before making out way though the Atlas to Marrakech. Beautiful country and fantastic food!
Flash Point History Thats so cool! You are always welcome to visit it again. I was born and raised in Europe but we visit our family and country twice a year. Im looking forward to the Mughal serie
It's possible that the mihrab pointed not towards Damascus but to Petra. The latest historical research has shown that the the twelve earliest Mosques of Islam all pointed to Petra not Mecca, and that they only started pointing there after the Abbasids took over. This has led some historians to believe that Muhammad came not from Mecca but in fact from Petra. It is certainly true that the topographical references to hills and ravines in relation to Muhammad's early struggles to establish his community connect well with Petra and not at all in any way with Mecca which was little more than a village with no strategic importance whatsoever at that time.
Great work! Remember, Islam is not an Abrahamic faith. This idea is a common Muslim deceit. Koran 5:51 says, “O you who have believed[Muslims], do not take the J * w s and the Nasara(Christians) as friends. They are friends to one another. And whoever among you takes them as friends, so surely he is of them. Surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” Koran 8:39 says, “And engage in war with them[Non-Muslims] until there will not be sedition and the religion will be completely to Allah…”
Don’t see how that makes Islam not an Abrahamic religion. Is Christianity not an Abrahamic religion due to it’s long history of persecution of the Jews?
Which is worse: living under the victor's rule and being able to practice one's religion, or, as happened with the reconquista, getting killed, deported or "forcibly" converted to the victor's religion?
Practice one's religion only as long as you pay the jizya In your own land. If you can't pay, thank you for playing - now convert or accept death. The jizya was not merely payment like a tax - it was a means to show you were a subdued and wretched individual. The jizya payer paid his taxes by lowering his gaze when approaching a Muslim He had to keep his voice low. He wasn't allowed to fix his churches unless the Muslim ruler allowed The Christian vassal states had to regularly send his Muslim overlord preteen boys and girls for the Caliphate. When the Spanish took over their own lands, why the hell would they need to tolerate a religion that subdued them and their sons and daughters for 700 years? This was the conquered defeating their conqueror. There was no time or patience to virtue signal. One last point - Muslims primarily allowed Christians and Jews because these two groups could be taxed. Slaughtering them would mean diluting your own treasury. There are early stories of Muslim sultans chastising Imams for being too aggressive in spreading the Islamic faith because as the converts increased, the Sultan's treasury started drying up due to fewer Christians to tax.
Sorry Dude, but Isabella I, Queen of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon including Pope Innocentius VIII and Pope Rodrigo Borja were War criminals committed crimes against humanity, they ordered the ethnic cleansing if Spain on orders and the blessings of the Popes, killing and or expelling thousands of Spaniards from their homes and lands and stealing their Gold, lands and properties.
Flash Point History then you clearly don’t understand the inquisition which was an earl example of that principe. Just say you support secularism. Well at least for white people you. Exotic minorities they get to be religious fundamentalists.
James Burke the Day the Universe Changed. I think episode 1 talks about impoverished Rome in the 10th century. Toledo on the other hand was fabulously wealthy due to trade with Constantinople and everyone else with dough. Not only did it have indoor plumbing running water free health care but had a population of Christians and Muslims who lived together peacefully with more than a little intermarriage. The other thing about Toledo was it's extensive libraries, housing all the great minds of Helenistic antiquity. So Rome hired Cid the Pirate to loot prosperous Toledo which had gotten a bit fat and lazy. He sent a message back to the Pope saying "hey we're going to burn the place down except they have these massive libraries here all in Arabic." And Rome responded "NO don't touch anything except booty" The Pope dispatched scholars and for the next 100 years those libraries were translated into Latin introducing into the late Dark Age all the Roman Laws governing commerce without which Europe wouldn't have been able to prosper. The number zero. The notions of dressing for dinner and dessert but perhaps most importantly (Aristotle). Anyway the assimilation of these libraries into Europe is why the European University system was born.
The significance of the city of Toledo cannot be under scored. It was a repository of knowledge, a place where major translations occurred, and as you had mentioned a city of three faiths. The translations that occurred here would provide the rest of Latin speaking Europe knowledge of antiquity. Yeah
10:10 This is an interesting point, the "quiblah" facing south towards Morocco instead of Mecca can hint to an early rebellious sentiment towards the religious establishment of the Umayad Caliphate which was ruled by an arabic elite claiming direct lineage to the prophet, and therefore implied superiority and privileged among the Muslim world. I don't have exact references since I am only recalling this from my high school history teacher (in Morocco), but at a certain point Marrakech was made the official "quiblah" as an alternative Pilgrim destination for west african muslims.
Some have also mentioned in this youtube community that this could have been a reference to the idea that Petra was the originally sacred city as well.
@@FlashPointHx Take a look at the video "The making of Marrakesh: Abd al-Mumin and the Almohad Legacy" The phd candidate starts talking about Mosques in Morocco and their choice of "quiblah" directions at around 10:30
jizya was a thing, but have to keep in mind in Islam taxes are forbidden. The only things which require monetary involvement is the jizyah and zakah. Zakah goes to poor people though, this is for muslims. 2.5% of any savings you have held onto for a year. Jizyah is for non muslims and their protection (funds military and so on). Also it is wayyyyyyyyyy lower than what we have nowadays. Keep in mind muslim countries dont exactly follow islamic law so yeh, just sharing what islam actually says. Mu‘ath ibn Jabal may Allaah be pleased with him who said, “The Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, sent me to Yemen and commanded me to take from every thirty cows a tabee‘ (two-year-old), and from every forty a musinnah (three-year-old), and from every person who had reached the age of puberty a dinar.” [At-Tirmithi; Al-Albani: authentic] So that's basically equivalent to about $160.
Meh, we currently live in the European so-called “Christian” (actually Catholic) West and there is a lot of intolerance, so you may point a finger to the past, but we are living in the present and can see with our own eyes what the Islamic and Catholic tolerances are. The Moors were the catalyst, not Islam, Judaism, nor Catholicism. Actual Christianity may have been the core belief that nurtured the cations of the Moors as a brother was returned to his owner as a brother, not a servant. And brothers in the faith are to treat each other well.
Al-Andalus holds a certain attractive mystique for me, I will admit, for some reason. It wasnt very tolerant by modern standards, but it certainly seems more tolerant in comparison to Ferdinand and Isabella and the Inquisition. But then, that's a very low bar. It's hard to be more intolerant than Ferdinand and Isabella. Lol.
agree - but it seems that as time went by Christianity and Islam in the Iberian peninsula became more and more polarized. You had a time of relative convivencia during the 9th -10th centuries and then the Crusades, then the Almoravids, then the Almohad, then the reformation, then the ottoman's victory over Constantinople etc. Intolerance and Inquisition seemed the next logical step
Hello everyone - welcome to Episode 6 where we look at Tolerance in Islamic Spain. If you liked this - please spread word about the UA-cam channel and share on social media. Its the only way a channel like this can grow. Consider contributing on Patreon as all funds are needed and used to make videos like this possible. You can also download the podcast to go on your media player.
0:52 Chapter 1 Convivencia
8:03 Chapter 2 Abd Al Rahman I - 788 C.E.
14:35 Chapter 3 Paul Alvarus - 855 C.E.
What do you think the tolerance level was in Islamic Spain/Al Andalus?
Islamic law during 711, to 1492 in the Iberian peninsula is pretty well documented. We know how the Christians were treated under Islamic rule.
I've read all 3 of the books you mentioned, and the myth of Al Andalusian Paradise by Dr Morera is the most accurate. Actually it's very accurate. I spend lots of time in Spain, mainly Galicia, and am knowledge on this time period.
So what are your thoughts, was it a Utopia for all races, and religions, where everyone lived happily together, or was it living hell for the non Muslims? Or maybe something in between?
@Jamal Exactly. Koran 5:51; 9:29; 98:6-7. Keep sharing your knowledge.
@@danielp3322 lot of bla bla witout any accuracy or scientific objejectivity in studying this subject really you want to talk about tolérance in two words i will tell you Christians had freedom to live in muslim spain andalousia al andalus with all their dignity and freedom of worship during the 8centurys that muslim ruled the iberian peninsula you want to talk about intolérance what did the two catholic kings Ferdinand and Isabella do to the muslims after grenade last muslim kingdom fall in spain they exterminated every muslim présence in this part of world millions of muslims where killed tortured burned forced to migrate or leave their religion were enslaved for centuries by thé christian Inquisition courts so don't talk me about tolérance at all don't question my history there is no similiar period that the muslims oppressed Christian in this way in the whole history İslam in fact don't compare even beetween them muslim one thousand years présence in egypt irak or syria Can exterminate all christians from this countries but he didn't because he was tolerant islam one thousand years rule in india can exterminate all the hindou or boudhi but he didn't because he was tolerant it is to shame islamophobia began to distort our golden age and one of the best periods of coexistence in all hisory like the way you do
@Jamal if the christians in muslim states had to pay djizya muslim citizen had to pay zakat in the same state it was sort of taxes paid by normal citizen to the state they were not exorbitant sums but rather symbolic amounts to demonstrate the sovereignty and loyalty for the state in the other hand dhimmi came from arabic word ahl dhimma in arabic means the people of convenants the dhimmi is the one who accepted to sign convenant and peace with the muslims and became their protected they were in charged to protect his life sancitties and freedom of religion see the case is simple and there is nohting péjorative about the matter don't tell me if you don't pay muslim will kill you because presenting the case in this way is wrong if you refuse the muslim dhimma it means you refuse the peace and the convenant with them it means you declare the war and don't tell me muslim make the others go to hell because muslims of spain of andalus have Seen the hell on the earth by Christian courts of Inquisitions there is no no no similiar in the whole history muslims oppressed Christians like the Inquisition courts did to the muslims they make the them see the hell on the earth they exterminate them so do not talk to me about tolérance or dhimmi status dhimmi status was way better than that i don't care what if the christians think that muslims will go to hell in day of judgement and the others are sarassin and they want get the kingdom of heaven you don't have the Wright to crisize muslims if they think you will go to the hell in the last day all religions think they are right what is important to me the most important thing is good dealing and coexistence in this life not the coming one in this in this part of land and part of hisory in müslim spain al andalus muslims had done great job in civilisation and coexistence and Inquisition christians courts had failed in the test
@@artemiosalinas you are bad liar and racist and islamophobic coran sourate 60 verses 8
Mad respect for arriving at a more complex scenario and taking the time to showcase the competing theories rather than just running with most favoured or convenient. Well done on a scholarly approach to a challenging topic!
I think the whole concept of "tolerance" is a bit too subjective here, and this is what Morera fails to take into account. If you compare Islamic states of that time with nearly any other in the world, then they were *undeniably* more tolerant but by modern, post-WW2 standards I would agree that there *definitely* was not 100% equality.
You certainly can't say that, on average, Jews were treated as well in Christian lands as they were in Islamic lands... keeping in mind that The Jewish Golden Age in Spain was only possible under Islamic rule. That's not to say it was perfect though, but it does mean that it was much better.
Also, the Jizya tax was mentioned as a method for conversions, but I would like to mention a few things on this point. While Jizya can indeed be explicitly used as a system of oppression by a given ruler, it's foundation certainly don't function as such. If a non-Muslim were to convert to Islam, then they would have to pay Zakat instead of Jizya, as all Muslims do, so there wouldn't be as much of a difference as many non-Islamic commentators like to argue there is. Furthermore, non-Muslims are exempt from many requirements placed upon Muslims, such as conscription into a religious war, in exchange for their payments.
You must look at the context in which this system developed to understand why it makes sense. The early Caliphates had predominantly non-Muslim populations as they didn't forcefully convert conquered peoples. However, as their borders grew larger and larger, eventually the Caliphate being even larger than the Roman Empire at its height, the demand for more money and soldiers grew significantly. Because there was a general prohibition against forcing non-Muslims into military service (both because of practical and religious reasons), the rulers would just tax them a bit higher to help fund the armies instead. Obviously, this system ended up being quite efficient and a good way to ensure the advancement of the state.
To be clear here, I'm generalizing. The fact is that as you go from one ruler to another, the level of tolerance can change quite a bit and it's really impossible to capture the entire scope of the discussion within a single UA-cam comment. There were Islamic rulers who would use Jizya as a method to pull higher conversion rates, while there were others who would abolish Jizya altogether.
Surely though, Moorish Spain was, on average, much more tolerant than it's counterparts to the north for this time period. If it wasn't, then there's really no possible explanation how the population could've remained so heavily Christian after Islamic conquest, with no guarantee of safety from outside Christian states. While after being conquered by Muslims, at most they'd often just have to pay a bit more in taxes (and even then, receive certain exemptions as mentioned above), other cultures would almost immediately forcefully convert/slaughter entire populations after conquering them.
Also keep in mind the intellectual and academic achievements of the Moors. Such things are only possible in cultures of open-mindedness. If the Moors really were close-minded, then they wouldn't have been so open to new philosophical, scientific, etc. ideas. Again, that's not to say they were as open-minded as modern liberal democracies, but they certainly were much more open-minded than most, if not all, non-Islamic cultures at the time.
To be honest with you - I found Morera's book disagreeable. He takes a very one sided view on things and uses a 21st century mind to evaluate a 10-11th century society - of course you're going to find major faults. Many times he uses examples and only gives partial information or cherry picked examples to reinforce his thesis. I'd recommend that anyone who reads his book - NOT use it as a sole means of understanding this time. However, I needed to have someone play devils advocate. As you have alluded to, Al Andalus compared to the rest of medieval Europe was a beacon on the hill. Technological, Medical, Social, Literary, and Agricultural advancements don't occur in crumbling and overly belligerent states. You need to have some tolerance and an open mind to make this possible. Thanks for your amazing response!
I see. Well, you did a really good job of staying unbiased in this video then because I wasn't able to tell exactly where you stood at all (hence my comment), which is the sign of a good historian. Great video, I'm looking forward to the next one. You definitely know your stuff
Thanks! The next video is up - let me know what you think. You have amazing insight to this time period
@Persiawill Riseagain you mean the truth not Muslims. am Tunisian from the Andalucian descent. my ancestors forced to leave in 1592.you are racist . without al andalus you would not see the renaissance.and today you are in decline in all fields
Apart from Jews being thrown out off many christian states at the time and forbidden to do many trades (and ended upp having to live in Ghettos).
This channel is a real gem on youtube...
Thank you! I’m happy you like it.
Great video! Loved the anecdote about the palm tree, and animation
I agree that the truth is somewhere in the middle in regards to tolerance, I think by modern standards we would say life in the Cordoba Caliphate was bigoted and intolerant...but by the standards of the time it was a tolerant regime
Epi!! Good to hear from you my friend. I was watching that movie 300 and the ending credits inspired me to do my own animations. Glad you like them.
Epimetheus
You should realize there were multiple caliphates in different times, some were very unfriendly to nonmuslims, others very harsh and cruel.
And I mean atleast they were better than the spainish after the andulusians were pushed out.
Did like any of them survive? No.
They were all told to pack their stuff or be killed.
The Spanish learned whith the almoads and does the same thing
@@aksmex2576 ,The Catholic Monarchs were like the ISIS.
@@Ali-sh6kh The crusaders were the biggest isis
Rahman's poetry made me feel really sorry for him. At the end he was just a homesick old man.
What a great channel this is. Love to see people take an objective and well researched view on history, too many people nowadays employ revisionism to fit their bias. Thank you for the videos!
I just wanted to say a BIG thank you for this comment - I took me 3 months to read enough to feel comfortable to make this single video. Really appreciate it!
@@FlashPointHx You're welcome! Thanks again for the content and keep up the great work!
This has become one of my favourite history channels on UA-cam. You deserve many more subs than you get.
I tend to agree that overall this period of Spanish History was beneficial and far more tolerant than was typical of the period. I think some historians are overly critical as they examine it by modern standards and ignore how much further advanced Muslim Spain was than the rest of Europe except for the arguably the Byzantine Empire. Certainly the Muslims were far more tolerant of other faiths then the Catholics were after the Reconquista. I have also read that the Renaissance owes much to the teachings from the famous library of Toledo, after it was recaptured.
agreed
I would have never believed if anyone ever told me I would be moved to tears by 8 century AD Andalusian poetry
12:40 🌴
Wait till you get to the lamentation of Abd al Rahman III on his deathbed
That quote is incorrect. Imam Malik said "ANY person who offended the prophets persona was to be punished" he never stated it was a ruling affecting non-Muslims only. In fact! more Muslims died to this than any non-Muslim.
Getting this directly from Morera
I mean aren't all taxes collected using the "pay me to protect you from the consequences of not paying me" plan
Yes but actually no. The difference here is the preferential treatment and the harsheness of the penalties. These taxes do not exist for the vast majority of people, they are very specifically targeted AT YOU instead of being just "gimme your money plz".
@@pougetguillaume4632 it's not gibz me da moneyz plz it's gibz me da money or I send dudes with guns to seize all of your assets and good luck hiring a lawyer bc we just froze your bank account
@@El_Gringo89 -gunz are anachronistic tho-
So criminally under subbed!
Hahaha thanks - well I was at 1k in early feb and now in April have more than tripled that value. Hoping to see more growth.
Unfortunately truth is boring, people prefer the myth.
Thank you for going through the trouble of researching a difficult topic and providing a wider picture of the world at that time.
My pleasure! Yeah it took 2-3 months to read up enough to do this video. The conflicting attitudes and opinions made this endeavor like walking in a proverbial minefield
@@FlashPointHx Hi :) Yeah I know what you mean, I live in a country that has over 15 religion and over 50 denominations and sects with a secular government which is eager to keep the peace so only positive dialog is allowed. Race and Religion are sensitive topics as it is a personal part or each individual, then mix in politics such as a theocracy then you have a potential disaster coming. As a Catholic, I have found myself having to defend my faith with words from muslims to buddhist, I had to think on how to present the truth of my faith without being too aggressive. Funny enough is that their main objection to Jesus is that our God is too merciful, too kind, too generous and loving.
Great as always! I appreciate your research. Also appreciate your method of staying away from extremes and focusing on the middle.
Thank you! Took me a while to do the work on this one. Appreciate your comments, getting a little acknowledgement for two months of research is really welcome.
Really great stuff as always.
Thank you! Big fan of yours as well
I particularly enjoyed the section on John Julius Norwich. The man is a legend.. Currently gradually making my way through his three part magnum opus on Byzantium.
I agree - impressive person. You can tell in his writing he is brilliant. He also has a very dry sense of humor I really like. I'm jealous you are reading the three volume history!
We need to remember that with any great civilization comes harm and sometimes evil after all these civilizations are made by humans and humans are not perfect
Never a more true statement. Its what a great civilization chooses to do with that power that really makes it great.
Pretty much this. Man is weak and yet so great at the same time.
especially muslims.
@@martinetti123 do u know religions were banned in Europe except christianity
Spain was anti none catholic country until 19 century??
@@coolboycoolboy6314 what's your point, boy?
What this tells me is that a “multicultural” system must be authoritarian and dominated by one of the groups it contains. Otherwise, it will be a dysfunctional mess with everyone at each other’s throats.
Note that today’s definition of “multicultural” is that each of the constituent groups live in freedom on an equal basis and that there is a high degree of willing cultural exchange and that no particular culture is better than any of the other cultures. I don’t think this has existed to any significant degree in history for very good reasons. It is against human nature and it won’t work.
That’s excellent insight - it’s human nature to feel superior to anyone that is not ‘you’. How many civilizations have refered to anyone else as ‘barbarians’? You need a strong secular state to establish law and order and then and only then can you have multiculturalism. Otherwise more times than not all you have is a bloodbath.
+ Kevin Balch + There are many examples, in recent history that support your observation. Even through the turbulent times of the cold war, and for some years after the fall of the Iron curtain, Yugoslavia, a multi-cultural state, remained peaceful, and actually thrived, relative to other communist, eastern-block countries. Upon the death a Tito, who had ruled Yugoslavia, as a nominally neutral, "non-aligned nation" since the end of WW II, the federation of it's component ethnic republics, flew to pieces. In the 1990's, what followed was a decade of bloody ethnic conflicts, that rocked a European continent, desperate for peace. One by one, the ethnically-based republics, and even the multi-cultural melting pot of Yugoslavia, Bosnia-Hertzogovina, battled their way to independence, in a series of bloody wars, that in some ways exceeded the brutality of WW II. Without the unquestioned authoritarian rule of the highly respected war hero, Tito, the different ethnic groups found more reasons to leave the unified Federation, despite a great cost in human lives, & physical destruction of private property, and infrastructure, than they could find to remain
linked to their former federated states..
One need not look to exotic locales like Sri Lanka, Rwanda, Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, or the former USSR where Ukrainians, still battle the rival Russian culture, to remain free of it. The Ukraine is not the only ongoing civil war, even in the current year, 2018, that tests the myths surrounding multi-culturalism, and strength from diversity. The once bifurcated Yemen, united as one nation since 1990, is now riven by a bloody tribal conflict, that bears no relationship the original North/South division. of that relatively new nation. Evidence that seems to contradict the popular narratives, glorifying the benefits of multi-culturalism, and the questionable mantra "Diversity is our Strength." Academic research into diversifying neighborhoods, in this country, identified 2 significant products of diversity: Increasing numbers of political protests, and rising crime rates.
Who is really surprised, that few, if any, benefits can really be linked to greater levels of diversity, or multi-culturalism?
KOut
@@FlashPointHx no there is a need for religious law
Would not secular law be a better alternative than religious law?
@@FlashPointHx the history of the 19 and 20th century proves you wrong
I searched about the poem you mentioned and noticed it is so hard to translate by a normal man.
Keep the good job dude!
Thanks!
This is a really interesting time in Iberian history so thank you, for publishing it!
You're so welcome!
There was NO multicultural Utopia in the Iberian peninsula during the Muslim conquest. This myth was started fairly recently. It was impossible, because under Muslim rule, the people in Iberia (the Spanish, and Portuguese) could not just convert to Islam, and become a citizen. The women could, but not the men. It's well documented that after the Muslim invasion in 711 the remaining Christians that couldn't flee to the north were now under Muslim rule, and were treated horribly. Many were enslaved, but for the ones that were not, they had to live as Dhimmi, and pay jizya(tax), which were 3rd class that had no rights. They couldn't ride horses, use weapons, carry weapons, they had to wear distinct markers to identify themselves, really for humiliation. There were many more rules that made it very hard to live. They couldn't raise their voices at a Muslim. The Muslims from the middle east were the ruling class, then the north Africans, the Berbers. The only Christian that weren't enslaved were people with skill sets, people that they needed. The women could marry in, and become a citizen, but the men could not, and after a short period of time there were no more Christians(Portuguese, and Spanish). This was evident when a city, or region would be taken back by the Christian during the Reconquista(the reconquest), there would be no free Christians, only slaves. When Granada was taken back Queen Isabella, and king Ferdinand had the chains from the slaves taken to Toledo, and hung on the outside of a cathedral as a reminder to never let another invasion happen again. They still hang today approximately 500 years later. I've been there, and It's a creepy sight to see.
This was common during the reconquest, every time they took back a city there were no free Spaniards, bust slaves which were freed.
The myth of an Al Andalus where all races, and religions lived happily together in peace is just that, a myth. It's actually impossible under Muslim law at the time.
Thanks for the explanation Daniel P.
I get a sense that a lot of revisionist historian work is to play here. Have you read the book Kingdoms of Faith, By Brian Catlas? He gives a really good middle of the road view.
Abraham Lincoln and Mark Twain once said:
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt"
Hahahaha
Good research and naration, but I want to correct you on two things if you allow 1) Many of the early mosques in North Africa and Spain were build with wrong direction. The directions were not established quit good yet. For example famous mosques like Qarawin Mosque, Zaitouna Mosque and even in large amounts, take for example nearly all mosques of the Old City of Qasba in Algeria. Ibn Habib, a 9th century philosopher and scientist from Córdoba, mentions that the direction of Mecca is to the rising of the star Alfasco, which is quit good. However this is about a century later than the building of the Great Mosque of Rahman i. If I am not mistaking it is also mentioned by Al Thahabi, a 13th century historian from Damascus, that a prince in Córdoba wanted to alter the direction of the Mihrab but he was advised not to by the court. 2) Secondly: it is not quit correct what you mentioned about Imam Malik saying that non- moslims must be punished if they insult the Prophet. This is not enirely true since this holds also for Muslims as Imam Malik said. Furtheremore he declaired that in the case of non-moslims they are not nescessarily excecuted but can repent from there fault, but if someone is a Muslim than they should be executed.
I want to end with thanking you for the effort and beautifull series on history you are making, I liked it very much, keep them coming!
I really want to thank you for this comment - it makes sense that early mosques were not pointing in the correct direction - astronomy and cartography what it was. I got the implication that The Great Mosque was intentional built this way from Maria Menocal’s book. Considering the advances that Al Andalus made and the many extensions to this mosque that occurred, I’m surprised they didn’t later correct it. I’m also really glad you brought up your second point, in fact you’re not the first to mention this about he Imam that I mentioned. I was directly quoting this statement from Dario Morera’s book and I always felt like he was distorting the truth for the benefit of his thesis. I’m not a big fan of his work. As for making these videos - entirely my pleasure, I’m happy you liked them and appreciate your input. The next two videos are up, please let me know what you think and share the video if you don’t mind. All the best!
@@FlashPointHx The historian Dan Gibson has quite a different explanation for why Qibblas did not point toward Mecca (see the excellent video on You Tube "The Sacred City"). That explanation fits very well with the on going political friction between the Muslim fractions of the time. The earliest Qibblas pointed fairly accurately toward Petra, so it was not a matter of not knowing direction. I also have to call into question the idea of Moslem culture as the preserving beacon of literature and knowledge. The great library of Alexandria was burnt by the Moslems. It seems Islam ended it's own "golden age" of Arabic culture and knowledge.
@@sweynforkbeard8857 someone sent me this before - where they felt Mecca wasn't the original holy city
@@FlashPointHx Very thought provoking video>
ua-cam.com/video/qOnGvzVceVo/v-deo.html
Mr. Gibson presents some interesting arguments, a lot of which are confirmed by archeological evidence, There is no historical evidence that current day Mecca existed before 741 AD, and the references in the Quran point to a place that had vegetation that never grew in Mecca (Grapes and olives).
@@sweynforkbeard8857 we knew how to write before islam if this is true we would have written it.
Do you know how big is this thing?? Don't you think that if this happened it would be mentioned in a book or something.
christian scriptures were written in Greek.
Latin was/is the language of Roman Catholicism
The only Christian scriptures written in Greek are the new testament books. Saint Jerome translated the entire old and new testaments into Latin in the 300s AD, and Jerome's translation remained the dominant version of the Bible used in Catholic Europe until the Reformation.
Jesus and his disciples spoke in Aramaic. Is the Aramaic version of the Bible found?
@@mahmud8982
Well the New Testament documents were written in Greek, probably because Greek was more widely-spoken in that time and place and the disciples wanted to spread the word about Jesus of Nazareth. Greek was a popular second language, like the English of its day. If the New Testament documents were written in Aramaic, then they could only share the message with people in and around the Levant area, where Aramaic was spoken. With Greek they could go into Egypt, Anatolia, Greece, Rome, and further west.
Roman Catholicism is the domains form of Christianity in Iberia.
At the beginning of Christianity everyone was Roman Catholic
There is no virtue in being "tolerated" in your own country by foreigners.
Well, how do you define "your country" and "foreigner"? Moors existed in Spain for 800 years, that's much longer than existence of MANY modern nation states, and surely longer than Europeans know of Americas, Australia, New Zealand etc. So, technically, Moors could be considered "domestic" after such a long period of time. Secondly, Spaniards themselves are a mixture of a variery of conquerors (Romans, Visigoths etc.)
Hazim Halvadžija No. Iberians have, of course, received genetic heritage from Germanic tribes and Romans but they remain mainly iberian natives. The Moors are African, not Iberians.
@@AleaRandomAm Moors exist no more, so we cannot say. Probability is that large portion of them were assimilated Iberians.
@@hazimhalvadzija5916 Bro im right here...... a Moor the. username is not my real name btw
UR A MOOR SPICBOI
personally I am not a historian but a student of history.
and it is necessary to remember that the coexistence between the different factions of the Andalusian was only for reasons of economy. It is also necessary to understand that the paradise would be only in Cordoba and in the return of the capital, all the rest of the peninsula iberia was the iron and fire
I’d say that there was tolerance in the more urban centers. Granada has a Jewish Vizier (who I will mention in the next episode), Toledo was big into the multicultural thing, but otherwise there was a considerable amount of revolt and blood shed. But for medieval Europe it wasn’t bad
lol "only for reasons of economy" as if that mattered anywhere else in the world. they could just pushed every no mulsim out as the Spanish did later but they didnt... had nothing to do with the economy bud.
my friend had everything to do with money. the war of the Moors itself will be of economic base nda had to do with religion
I would say something a little different, it was tolerable for anyone who could afford all the others saw their land stolen and their family slaves ...
evidence for this? All this just seems to be opinion based tbh. nothing like this was said in the video.
As a side-note on the Jizzya : it is usually an alternative ti Zekkat and a dimmi could technically be spared paying it if he or able bodied male of his family joins the Islamic army and serves his term since conscription was not obligatory on dimmies but I am unsure if this was applied in Ummyad Andalusia
they followed the Maliki school of legal thought so it was similar to what they practiced in the east
@@FlashPointHx never think that maliki has strict rule i think hambali is the nost strict madhab
@@FlashPointHx
His talk is based on hadith and Quran bieng from the maliki legal school has nothing to do with it
The tolerance seems never to be objective but a reality resulted of stalemate, if one power grew too strong the one will suffer and if the one weakened the other will dominant
Amazing video and a great channel. Also, this is a very even handed approach to one of the most divisive questions out there. You do an exceptional job, certainly much better than other channels approach the topic. I've enjoyed watching your videos while reading for my preparation to go back to uni for my Postgrad Middle Eastern studies.
Impressive - what is your focus of study in the Middle East ? I always found this a period in history that seems to be neglected. The more I look into it, the more fascinating it is. I’m happy you liked my content. The next two videos should be up soon.
Just found Flashpoint History. Is he still making videos?
I am - look at my series on the Conquest and Fall of Constantinople
Today arab world really need tolerance
everyone needs tolerance
I think everyone is the same, in some countries you can get away with more
Sometimes too much tolerance is also not a good thing
Arabs need a break from American imperialism. That’s what they severely need.
DIGITAL CTHULHU this video is an explicit defense of Islamic imperialism. It seems to me that imperialism promotes tolerance. I say we ramp up the imperialism in the Muslim
World give them a little taste of their own medicine. Like he says al-andulas lasted for seven hundred years- so we’ve got 650 years more American imperialism to go.
One thing to note about the Martyrs of Cordoba:
These people who decried Islam in Cordoba were the children of Islamic men and (mostly) Christian women, and by renouncing the faith of their fathers and embracing the faith of their mothers were charged with apostasy, which came with a death sentence in many places of their world.
Nothing new on the world stage - and compared to what was going to happen in the latter 11th and 12th c on the other end of the Mediterranean, where killing infidel became state policy of the Urban II and later Innocent III papacy, this was a flesh wound.
Sorry - that was supposed to be a *the* and not a *their* ! The Martyrs are pretty fascinating in and of themselves - people who willingly sought martyrdom/death in defiance of the existing legal and religious order, which wasn't actively trying to kill them. If I remember correctly, there was something like 100 "martyrs" over the following decades that came to the Cordoban court and followed Eulogious' example.
The numbers I’ve read vary between 50 to 80 in the acute time period - but more followed soon enough. 100 would not be unreasonable. You seem well versed - why the fascination with the martyrs?
I was fortunate to take a class on Islamic history under Fred Donner a few years ago. He put me onto them for a final paper which surveyed the textual evidence when it came to the martyrs, which is actually pretty sparse - Eulogious and Alvarus are pretty much the only surviving sources we have on them. What's also interesting is that both of these men write a good bit on increasing interest in Arabic writing and language, scolding their fellow Christians who do so while exalting Latin writings.
So right in the middle of Abd- al-Rahman II's reign, a former civil servant of the Umayyad administration named Isaac, seemingly without provocation, walked into the qadi's court, insulted the prophet Muhammed, and pleaded with the qadi to convert to Christianity. The qadi reportedly slapped him across the face and suggested that he must be either drunk or insane. Isaac assured him that he was in the right mind, so the qadi had him imprisoned and informed the emir. Isaac was beheaded for public blasphemy, and the emir circulated an edict warning that anyone else who sought to emulate his behavior would receive the same punishment. Over the next five days, 8 more Christians came forward and mimicked Isaac. This prompted Abd al-Rahman II to seek out Bishop Reccafreddus to arest and imprison the local Christian clergy to bring pressure on the local Christian population, and for a time it seemed to have worked - but the summer brought with it a new wave of executions for pubic blasphemy.
A marked change happens with Eulogious' writings after he and the rest of the Christian clergy are imprisoned. He becomes critical of both the Islamic authorities and the Christian leadership, and paints the martyrs as suffering under both a tyrannical regime and having to defend and justify their actions from their own fellow faithful.
So most of what he wrote on the martyrs are what we would today call *eulogies* where he gives a short background on the individual martyr's life, and then extols their virtues (in addition to giving a summary of events as he saw them). What's particularly interesting about reviewing the many eulogies that he gives is that the lives of these people were incredibly similar in certain ways.
First, these martyrdoms differed from those of the Roman days in that nearly all of the people killed purposefully spoke ill of the prophet Muhammed or Islam right in the middle of the Islamic court, knowing full well that doing so would mean their own death.
Second, nearly all of them had connections to Cordoban monasteries, many of which were miles outside the city limits, and generally practiced a fairly strict asceticism; Eulogious depicts the martyrs as ascetically-minded, and intensely concerned about questions regarding their salvation.
And third, the martyrs can be very neatly divided into two distinct groups: (1) priests and monks, most of which were executed for committing acts of public blasphemy against Islam, and (2) those who came from mixed families and publicly professed Christianity, a rejection the faith of their fathers, and were thus executed as apostates.
While both of our sources are problematic at best, the reconstructions of Colbert, Coope, and Wolf offer radically different takes on events as written. Colbert does a pretty thorough survey of Eulogious' and Alvarus' work; Coope argues that the martyrs were attempting a radical assertion of Christian identity, fundamentally opposed to Islam, in a time of increasing assimilation and insecurity; Wolf points out that both of the former pretty much take Eulogious at his word, mostly because he seems sufficiently removed from the events as they are unfolding, but that in turn seems to indicate that he wasn't a significant part of the movement itself, only ever having been personally affiliated with a small number of them. His writings, after all, would not be subject to censure by the Islamic government.
Like, holy hell, dude. That shit's cray.
You seemed liked you knew what you were talking about - didn’t realize you had this much insight! It’s amazing what people do if motivated by religious insight. Part of the reason why the crusade era fascinates me so much. What motivates someone to kill or be killed for thier faith? I remember the last time I was in Jerusalem - passing from the Jewish to the Muslim quarters of the city was enough to draw stares.
This is quality work. Presentation, music and images are all first rate. As a vocal snob, I really enjoy your speaking voice. Fits very well with your stories.
I really appreciate the comment - there is so much expression that goes into the way one tells a story. I don't think many realize how important inflection and tone are in this process. I'm curious - what do you do that makes you a "vocal snob?" Again, thanks for the kind words
Two things. I've been studying classical voice for the past 17 years or so. As a volunteer, I spent a few years recording news items for blind people as well as recording books for an org called Librivox. As you say, tone and inflection are important. Not to everyone, of course. But it does make a difference.
Wow - you’re an expert at this then. Lovely that you help out the blind as well. I volunteer my time for a website called Ancient History Encyclopedia - narrating the entries on ancient history. You should take a look.
Thanks, I'll take a look at the site. I'm hardly an expert, just a keen amateur with too much time on my hands.
Great wall of Constantinople? I had no idea!. I have added another historic place visit to my bucket list. :-)
Yes!!! Everyone goes to see the Topkapi palace and the blue mosque / jaguar Sophia (which need to be seen as well) however - grab a lunch, and hike out to the walls of Theodosius II - especially to an area known as the golden gate. Those walls held back invaders for over 1000 years.
@@FlashPointHx thank you so much, I love history and historic sites, walking in the footsteps of long gone giants.
The imported works including Plato and Aristotle and many other scientific manuscripts of mathematics astronomy etc eventually came from Byzantium, which the Arabs translated to Arabic later. You can also see the elements of influence of Byzantium in the architecture of mosques in Corduba as you said.
Correct - but the Arab world of the Abassids also translated the works of the Greeks and spread it through the Islamic world. The Byzantine always has these works and spread it to Europe as well.
The Abassids translated the ancient greeks from byzantium, this is testified by Ibn Khaldun in the Muqadimmah and as well as by other muslim authors. This is what khaldun says about the abassids: "Abu Ja'far al-Mansur, therefore, sent to the Byzantine Emperor
and asked him to send him translations of mathematical works.
The Emperor sent him Euclid's book and some works on physics.
The Muslims read them and studied their contents. Their desire to
obtain the rest of them grew.
Later on, al-Ma'mun came... He sent ambassadors to the
Byzantine emperors. (These ambassadors were) to discover the
Greek sciences and to have them copied in Arabic writing. He
sent translators for that purpose (into Byzantine territory). "You should read the book Byzantium viewed by the arabs, there it mentions also that the byzantines were also sending books as gifts to cordoba, for example emperor Romanus sent the book of dioscurides, and they also sent mosaics in order to decorade the mosque of cordoba. I mean the contribution of byzantium to the islamic world should not be underestimated.By the way I like your videos, and your naration of the historical events.
I agree - but something should also be said of the contribution of the Islamic world to the rest of Europe as well. I’m really glad you like the videos! I go more into the cultural heritage of Al Andalus in the next episode - let me know what you think!
And my second arguement is that byzantium mostly prefered diplomacy rather than wars and subjugations. The expansion of the empire by Justinian was an attempt to restore the roman empire to its former territory. About the rest you mentioned i agree.
This is also true, many european medieval intellectuals mention the works of aristotle for example through arab authors. For example like Roger Bacon who mentions aristotle as it seems through the arab author Averroes. So yes you are right about the arabic influence as well. But i see it more as a chain of events that was sparked by the abassid but with the contribution of byzantium as well. Anyway one can have his arguements. But i do like your chanel so i subscribed.
A most bizarre quote, indeed, is the one from the woman who wrote that the increasing adoption of the Arabic language was for a reason that is "outside of faith and _may even contradict it_ ." That's an argument that Islam is a false religion. That makes her overall thesis schizophrenic. Internal contradictions annoy me.
Do one on Spain and how the British and Dutch exaggerated and even outright lied about the Spanish in the Americas.
Even today the Black Legend still exists.
@Genghis Khan Black Legend?
They would make up lies about how the Spanish treated the Natives.
In one instance they fabricated a lie that the Spanish would feed Natives to their dogs.
They even made an engraving of the fallacious event.
"A 1598 engraving by Theodor de Bry of a Spaniard feeding slain women and children to his dogs. De Bry's works are characteristic of anti-Spanish propaganda which was a result of the Eighty Years' War."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend_(Spain)
@Genghis Khan Nope.
It is widely known to historians and the learned.
Just because you never heard of it means nothing.
Lmao YESSS! English translation of Columbus journal says it all! Exposes hundreds of years of scholarly bias if you look at original untranslated text. Red pill on Columbus that PC culture doesn’t want you to know.
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354THE BLACK LEDEND IS A REALITY
Superb, by far and away the most balanced and intellectually satisfying of any vid else I have seen on here. The Muslims tore down the churches to build Mosques with the stone, the same stone was used from the torn down Mosques to build Churches! The old Basilica, on the Placa de la Virgin in Valencia stands on and is made from the Mosque that once stood there...
Thank you - I’m glad you liked the video. Once I started doing the research for this, became very apparent there are no clear cut answers to what happened and how tolerant the society was.
Dark ages?, please reconsider this long ago misclassification of the Middle age period.
J M N a propagandist is gonna propaganda. Got use all the arrows in your quiver if you are going to be a fifth columnist and justify brutal Islamic conquest.
@@dannytallmadge2161 brutal? enriching culture and building monuments that stay till this day vs completely killing originals in the americas? which one is brutal in your opinion?
waseem rajab The Spanish built a lot of buildings across their holdings, many of which are quite beautiful.
Just because you build doesn’t mean you aren’t brutal.
@@dannytallmadge2161Not brutal. Enlightened.
It is rather interesting. In Al Andalus, a Muslim ruling state, there are Christians writing "against" Islam. While I understand that the penalties were brutal, I cannot imagine any other place in that point of history or centuries to come, where such thing could actually happen. Could Jews write against Christians? Was there any society at Medieval times where such thing could happen? This, by itself, proves the level of tolerance. For us, of course, now this seems brutal and oppressive how they were dealt with (or does it, imagine a Muslim today in France or Germany writing a book against Christianity, or a Kopt in Egypt writing a book against Islam - I think they would be burned by a mob).
You bring up a really good point - if we interpret what happened then with a 21st century prospective - yes its barbaric. But if you compare it to the time - where most of the world was ruled by despotism, this was a very progressive place.
@@FlashPointHx Crazy part is, even today, in some places these topics are so sensitive, that what happened in Al Andalus would look like a good day for humanity.
@@blablabla1044 This is still a hotly debated topic today - researching for this episode took me three months and I can tell you there is a lot of bias even in the most respected of books
@@FlashPointHx For sure. I think you did great. We really need a better understanding of the past so these "different worlds" today can understand each other better, instead of alienating others.
There's a Museum built in St. Augustine Florida that is a replica of a Moorish Palace. You reminded me of this when you mentioned the cultural effects that are still felt.. of course this is just a museum built about 100 years ago (i think) but in St. Augustine?? I don't know much about it, maybe some Spaniards built it...
No kidding! I have family who live in Orlando and they have been wanting to take me up to St. Augustine for some time. One of the oldest cities in America. I love Mudejar style. There is a reason that Game of Thrones filmed "Dorn" in the Alcazar of Seville.
Nah orientalist art and architecture is a recurring motif in modern Western cultures including the US. Especially popular in 19th century romanticism era. In fact, US writer Washington Irving was one of the earliest writers to spark international interest in the Alhambra in the 19th century. Without American popular interest in the "exotic" orient, the Alhambra likely would have fell even further into disrepair and who knows how much would've been lost.
interesting - you're saying that it was Orientalism that preserved the Alhambra. Does this go along the same lines that Victor Hugo's books saved the Notre Dame? @@grontelp77
@@FlashPointHx pretty much lol. A tour guide literally gave me this spiel when I visited the Alhambra.
Thank you for the info Dylan, I moved to Florida recently, I would love to visit the museum next time I go to St. Augustine.
The audio keeps cutting in and out. I’m watching on chrome cast and just a heads up (I can’t tell in chrome cast because it doesn’t tell me) if you are uploading 60fps the first 2 generations(the vast majority of people) of chromcast cut in and out. It’s a known issue since a year ago after an update. They don’t seem to plan on fixing it. Basically I’m telling you so that you keep your plays going as I know a lot of people, like myself, cast videos
Interesting - never had anyone say this
The tolerance was not limited to Spain. It was a policy typical of Islam towards all conquered people , such as Jews and Christians, considered people of the Book.
Tolerance is a pretty light word considering all of their policies were geared towards getting people to convert by making it inconvenient to be Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian, etc. they were treated as second class citizens.
I mean it's debatable but one thing about this topic that cannot be a myth or a lie is that living as a Christian or a jew in Muslim Spain was way more safe than living as a Muslim or a jew in a Christian kingdom in Europe.
Yeah the jizya was intolerant but that was way more better than getting deported to a land your ancestor lived in 600 years ago like what happend with the spanish inquisition.
In other parts of Europe - persecution was the rule
Si vos ancêtres ne seraient pas venu en Hispania,
Il y aurait eu des expulsions de musulmans ???
Il y aurait eu des siècles de guerres ??
Il y aurait eu de l'esclavagisme sexuelle ??
Si les musulmans ne serait pas venu en HISPANIA CHRÉTIENNES RIEN NE SERAIT ARRIVÉ
Maintenant continué a raconté des conneries
Et si vous avez le courage répondez. À qui la faute??
Vous avez récolté ce que vous avez semé Guerre et soufrance ☪️🤮🧹🧹🧹
Looking forward to this after I finish the other episodes
I look forward to hearing what you think =)
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
Aristotle
Sounds like F. Scott Fitzgerald was riffing/ paraphrasing on this, in the quote mentioned by the narrator (who sounds like the narrator for the 'Momento Mori'', videos).
Either way, good stuff and these episodes are worthy of attention. I'm curious who is financing them.
Thank you.
Im happy you like the content. I sent you an email as well. But no one actually finances these videos - except myself. I do get donations from Patreon and some ad rev from youtube. But this makes my project budget neutral more than anything.
Aristotle was a proto fascist shit head
You are not curious to know who is financing the project, you are alluding to dodgy sources and probably also trying to create doubt in people's minds... Who's paying you for that, may I ask ?!
18:00 im pretty sure it was not just islam. Anyway that attacked any other religion was punished. Also there was an intolerance to a degree but it was not as suffocating as that guy seems to claim. How else could they golden age of Jewry happen if it was?
I think Moorish Spain was perhaps one of the most tolerant societies - compared to their Medieval counterparts. Morera is a bit one sided
Morera one sided? XD yeah i couldnt tell at all.....
Morera is no more than an average man of the street trying to influence people who may know a lot more than he does... Morera is the epitome of a mediocre author, biased and prejudiced !!!
The golden age of the Jews is a 19th century invention... just like most people belive to this day. All 19th century romanticism.
Maybe you could also make a separate playlist for this whole period as I think it’s one of the most crucial set of videos in this was of the worlds series?
Done!
7:30 I Never Once Heard That Phrase In My 19 Years Of Life
You got a lot of life to live - live long and prosper
amazing video man, when I get enough money I will try to support, can you please tell me what music you used at the beginning?
Happy that you liked the video and any donation is appreciated. The intro song is Desert Caravan which is in the UA-cam archive for free download (along with a lot of others that are really good). I have all the songs to my videos in the description .
The narrator doesn’t even mention that jihad and holy war against the infidel was one of the most significant motivating force for Muslims to invade Spain. Islamic jihadists invaded Spain and destroyed the thriving and flowering Visigothic culture that existed there and then subjugated the population and imposed their religious laws on them. Just look up the martyrs of Córdoba and then try and tell me all about this tolerant, multicultural and pluralistic Islamic rule in Spain. All we need to do is look at the tolerance of Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries today to see a window into the past. How anyone can argue that medieval fundamentalist Muslims were tolerant of other religious view points in medieval Spain is beyond laughable.
Love your videos, I'm half Mexican and although I identify more with the Mayan side of this heritage, I know my Spanish ancestors were from Cordoba so I am extremely curious about the history of Al - Andalus.
It is an amazing story! So is the Mayan story - I’ve been to at least 20 sites in the Yucatán
There is a documentary about the thing you mentioned that doesn’t point to Mecca
Hey I'm a student of Islamic history and modernism .. I have some questions that I am not able to find out .. I'm refferening them here .. if you can plz incorporate them in ye vedios .. my exams are in decemeber-january so if you can help me I'll be more then glad
The moral of all this is that Spain should watch their immigration . Otherwise they would be into another period of being tolerated in their own country. Or not much better, become like London. As regards revisionist history, they shouldn't let foreigners living in Spain pretending to know it all, just because they watched a TV series or two paid by Arab oil money
You are 100% right.
Let’s not forget “the dark ages” never happened. It’s just one of those fictional narratives that have become so ingrained in culture and education, that it seems impossible to exercise.
I love your videos, very educational and well detailed!
I’m really happy you liked the videos ! Trying to get a good balance of animation and documentary in one
Great detail
I enjoy your documentaries
I'm always cautious of eurocentrism in some bias in UA-cam videos, but these seem very measured, even if some of the comments seem to be coming from the LARPing "Deus Vult" crowd. Great job!
UA-cam videos are more likely to suffer from anti-european sentiments
@@goyonman9655 you an islamopropaganda sentiments
@@pertuk you need to get a better education.
@@jonmunoz2772 about what?
@@pertuk your anti-Islamic views; if someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of spreading "Islamic propaganda".
imo jizyah/zakat far more advantages for citizen than tax in our world today.
Not everyone need to pay jizyah (age/wealth etc)
while muslim need to pay zakat also based on (age/wealth etc)
so it kind of meticulous system compared to' one for all' which being practiced in modern world today.
another example we can refer the interest system in financial.
while islamic financial absolutely abolish interest based financial compared to modern world today which a big plus for public, but might not favor by bankers.
after listening and reading about the way islamic golden age conduct business practices, makes we want to implement some of those beneficial practices in my business.
efficient & effective are always my main objectives in doing things.
Then move to an Islamic nation that still has those practices.
@@baneofbanes calm your tits kid.
And here you are defending the benefits of a second-class citizenship. I bet you think you're liberal.
I like your objectivity, it's a bit rare to find objective researchers on such subjects. But I have an objection to what you said about why people converted to Islam & (Jizia) in the last part of the video.
In Islam we have something called Zakah , a kind of charity which is obligatory on any able Muslim (Able Muslims have an annual income of about 4500 $) which is way more than the amount of Jizia. I hope you research this point. I love your videos. Thanks.
I came across this charity as you mention. But from the sources that I've read - and many are from esteemed professors and researchers in the field, they all mentioned that avoidance of the Jizia was a motivation for conversion. There were other references that I came across, that conversion was forced - but I found that not to be consistent. Again, the history that I give is a culmination of several sources put together to give as best of a "middle of the road" approach that I could. Happy that you liked the video.
17:33 I mean by that definition all Muslim would technicly ruled by Theocratic system until a literal birth of nation state because Islam certainly have no need to seperate between religion and the state before.
Come to think of it Islam is the most successful fusion between Religion and the Law and the State isn't it? Which ironicly come to haunt them in the current political enviroment.
Edit : I live and are part of Muslim majority country and i say the treatment of Ummayad wouldn't be that far diffrent that is today(minus the harsh punishment unless you go to Aceh) is that we're willing to treat people with other religion as a normal human being as long the Islam superiority is not unchallanged.
I think it was quite a tolerant place and followed Islamic principles regarding protection for non Muslims living there fairly well. It is important to note however that tolerance doesn’t mean equality. Muslims living under the emirate naturally had more privileges because they follow the state religion, it’s the same with the Spanish empire and Christianity.
Good points. It also depends on which time period. There were periods under the Almohads and the Almoravids that tolerance was at a low point. Conversely under Christianity - as time progressed and the further you got into the frontier region, the harsher conditions were. When the Spaniards took over, Muslims and Jews had very little convivencia
Flash Point History weird. Generally invaders and their middle men collaborators are treated great. One wonders why the sepoy (who after all lived in a period of British enforced tolerance in India far better than now for sure) were so eager to attack English tolerance bringers (imperialist sounds so out dated) and their Indian collaborators.
F.P.H . I want to ask what if I or you were Muslims what you prefer; Living in Muslim Spain or in France , in medieval times ?
Depends on the precise time and what part of Spain / France. I would have loved to have lived during the high point of Cordoba during the reign of Abd Al Rahman III. think it would have been fascinating.
@@FlashPointHx really you would have liked to have lived in an era without modern medicine were you could be beheaded for blasphemin the Muslim faith where your freedom of speech is no where like modern America.
Best place to live was the christian land, especially the Kingdom of Leon, people who scarcely knew the feudal regime, and that acknowledge the most freedom, fathers of Parlamentarism and Representative Democracy in the world, Cortes del Reino de Leon 1188, confirmed by UNESCO.
Islam promotes tolerance
لَّا يَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمۡ يُقَٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِي ٱلدِّينِ وَلَمۡ يُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَٰرِكُمۡ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ وَتُقۡسِطُوٓاْ إِلَيۡهِمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِينَ
(Sahih International)
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
-Surah Al-Mumtahanah, verse 8
Islam promotes kindness
ۚإِنَّ رَحۡمَتَ ٱللَّهِ قَرِيبٞ مِّنَ ٱلۡمُحۡسِنِينَ
Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good.
-Surah Al-A'raf, verse 56
Good for Islam. Do Islamic extremists know of this?
The unfortunate probability is that had Spain (or Al-Andalus) kept three distinct faith and ethnic communities into the 20th century we would have seen a Spanish ethno-religious civil war on the par with former Yugoslavia.
The Spanish civil war that did happen in the 1930s is infamous for its brutality. Imagine it with ethno-religious hatreds flaring up. There would’ve have probably been multiple conflicts every 3 or 4 decades with very little resolution as in former Yugoslavia.
Please don’t take it as advocacy for brutal expulsion of non-Christians by Isabella and Ferdinand and other medieval Iberian kings.
Not brutal expulsion, the kings did with they must, we were fighting to unify again our nation, and those foreign ethnics were dreaning the wealth of Spain, the jews and conspiring with the ottomans, the moriscos, the moment we became ourselves again with no enemies inside, Spain became the world superpower and spreaded christianity, western civilization and a civilizstion of joy worldwide, I think you all are not taking into account that those spaniards were the sons of the Atlantida and the inheritors of Greece and Rome.
It should be compared to contemporary states like say France/Burgundy etc. When you do it is quite something.
Today when we see say Saudiarabia it should be compared to contemporary rich/oil states like ...Norway? Not that impressive then...
Saudi Arabia is an extreme example. There are something like fifty-ish Muslim-majority countries in the world and they're all different. Islamophobes love to talk about Saudi Arabia to justify their hostility to all Muslims, but Saudi Arabia is ruled by an oppressive dictatorship that by definition doesn't represent its people. Moreover, Saudi Arabia has less than 30 million people, whereas the Muslim world is made up of 1.5 billion. Also you're not taking a lot of other factors into account, like colonialism. There are reasons why an oil-rich country in imperialist Europe might be better off than an oil-rich country in the third world.
@@kawadashogo8258Saudi Arabia is an extremist state. Norway is also an extreme example being in a peaceful and stable corner off the world. I guess most muslims live in Pakistan-India-Bangladesh, that is the "typical" muslim just like the most numerous western person is a US one? I have no hostility to muslims as such, even if I have strong prejudice against religious regimes (The papal state, Iran, Saudi, North Korea etc). All empires get colonies or conquests, it is nothing specific for European (past) empires...
@@kawadashogo8258
Imperialist Europe?
Yes, we all remember hearing the phrase, "The sun never sets on the Norwegian Empire" or how common the Norwegian language is...
Kawada Shogo lol apostasy is outlawed in every Muslim majority nation of the OIC. Know them by their fruits. That’s a wonderful passage little Mo (cuz his dick was tiny) didn’t get around to plagiarizing.
what is the background music its nice?
there are many - any specific time reference?
@@FlashPointHx 0.24-0.25
The production on this video is top notch but you spend far too much time talking about irrelevant topics like Rahman’s palace and aqueducts, and Byzantium. Good job!
5:56 that sounds like some people’s views on America.
Convivencia is most likely a myth. Just because Muslims don't outright exterminate the subjugated population, it does not automatically imply a tolerant coexistence. For people arguing that "there were no Muslims in Europe in 700AD," like no shit. Christianity was practically native to Europe, the Islamic invasion of Spain is why there was "co-existence" in the first place. Of course, Europe and Constantinople aren't gonna let the population of an active hostile faction enter their territory en mass.
Sure, one can't argue with the cultural and technological achievements during this time. However, if Islamic Spain were truly tolerant, why were there so many uprisings (even during its peak golden ages) that had to be brutally put down?? I highly doubt it's simply due to the discontent for Jizya either.
HUMAN REALITY OF SIN+ISLAMIC WAY OF THINKING+POLITICS+MILITARY+CATHOLICISM+THEIR WAY OF THINKING+MILITARY....WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GONNA HAPPEN?
👑RÍOS FAMILY 👑 it refers to the ROYAL HOUSE OF ASTURIAS where the RÍOS👑 last name most likely originated from.👑
All Shall Be Revealed
So when the iberians
were converting to islam how did they do it in the rural areas would a certain village embrace it suddenly or did the members one by one convert?
Usually the more metropolitan areas would be incorporated first and then later the more rural areas would eventually convert. It was a process of time and forced conversion was the exception rather than the rule
@@FlashPointHx what I meant was imagine a village in Iberia with 15 houses if one of the people in it converts the people of the community will look down at him which would make it hard for a village member to convert but did it happen?
@@Janisary-yh8zp As time went by, Islamic rulers became more orthodoxy and strict in their rule. There was incentive to convert as you didn't need to pay the Jizya tax. Whats more, the official language of administration was Arabic and so to get ahead, sometimes converting helped. I read a stat that by the end of the 11th century 80% of the population under the Caliphate of Cordoba was Muslim. So this would imply that even in rural areas people would convert
@@FlashPointHx so did a village entirely convert or did each of its members convert one by one as time passed
Tolerance may not be equality but it is a step towards equality.
The stories I heard as a child all point to the Muslims being brutal.
They would take mothers and sisters.
Why do you think Pelayo did what he did?
To try and save his sister.
You need lots to learn man.
Always follow the man looking for truth, doubt the one who feels they definitively know the truth.
@@FlashPointHx All you have to do is read "A History of Medieval Spain" by James O'Callaghan.
I have ! It’s part of my collection - he focuses on the Crusade aspect of the Reconquista. Catlas’s book just came out last year. I’ve read everything from Menochal to fierro, Kennedy to O’callaghan, and even Morera. Catlas is a good ‘middle of the road’ view
@@FlashPointHx Not bad.
When you make it up to my 6 part series on the Reconquista I quote Catlas and o’callaghan all the time
I’d like to live here I think
If you visit, there are places that will bring you back to here even today
what a nice surprise.. a video from F.P.H.
I enjoyed it... Thank you
my pleasure - next two coming out soon
Aaaaash when i visited spain and i saw what my ancestors build i was really proud.
Thank u for your great job!
The moors where black so they wherent your ancestors
@jay jay they left a lot of things obviously you dont know what your talking about
@jay jay judar pascha is a morrocoan general from spanish background
jay jay they LIVED for 800 years they changed the genocide of the Europeans
A good start regarding the Islamic rule in Spain is Professor Dario Fernandez-Morera's book "The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise"
I'd be careful with Dario - I've read his book and he's extremely one sided and very biased.
@@FlashPointHx No offense but your videos seem one sided too. At least he has numerous footnotes that point out to a lot of first hand sources (many of these were in languages beside English). I strongly suggest that you and him should have an online debate regarding the history and impact of the Islamic rule on Spain - your point of view versus his take on Islamic history in Hispania.
@@johndorilag4129 Dario wrote his book with the sole intention of justifying his anti-Muslim worldview, i.e. it was written through the lens of islamophobia.
@@donthasselthehoff5753 Can you share that opinion with the dhimmis?
@@johndorilag4129 cn you share that opinion with the non-catholics?
Great content
Hey thanks!
According to historian Ameer ali.
The jizzya was most times less than zakat. ( jizzya and zakat are both taxation for common good.)
It was the reason many non muslims opted to stay in their own religion due to less taxation. But those who adopted Islam were those who valued the principles of Islam . Of only One God ,the creator of all. And the universal brotherhood of Man.
Human dignity is most holy.
Great videos. Loved the whole serie. The argument that it was a theocracy and that people who mocked there religion were killed isn`t a good one. That was at most empires. Many Christians killed others too because they spoke against the bible. Rome after Constantin also forced Christianity onto everyone. That`s why no older religion survived in Europe. What happened after the Moors was even worse, they tried to errase that history in Spain. No Muslims were spared. All had to change there names and become Christian. But al that isn`t an example of glorious life. Like you said, the freedom of some came at the price of many more others. Romans were free because the slaves did the hard work... Cheers.
Exactly - but the portion of Theocracy was taken directly from Morera who I added as devils advocate. I’m not fond of his polemic work. Very one sided. Give me time - will hit up the reconquista soon enough.
I know. I had better frased that it was his argument... I`m very interested in the reconquista. And the Spanish Inquisition. I red a Spanish History book, very vage on those subjects. The mores maybe 2 pages. And then heroic about Franco and whole chaptors of the civilian war and then the reign of Franco. It was an old book. But I learned spanish with it. I`m from Belgium Flanders. Most here don`t know anything of our history. The 1st and 2nd war ok. But not further. It`s hard to find a lot of information, but with a lot of pieces you can fill the puzzel in your head. Pitty that most of what we know of history is censored by many thru time. History is everywere. Keep up the good work.
I agree - people need to know their history. Thanks for the kind words - intend on making more videos.
I`m also a youtuber, I how much work goes in there, but education is priceless. ;)
Im a moorish descendent and your videos are gold. So interesting and accurate
Hey thank you! That means a lot coming from someone who has this heritage !
Yeah it’s kind of interesting. I’m a Berber from the Rif (northcoast of Morocco). There are a lot of descendents there. Can you make a serie about the Barbary pirates in the future?
@@GreeneyesSalma Not sure if I'll have time for the Barbary pirates - hoping to get to the Mughals soon. As for the Rif - I've been there! I took a tour of Morocco with a friend a few years back. We traveled from Casa Blanca to Rabat to Fez and then across to the Ziz valley and on the Western Sahara before making out way though the Atlas to Marrakech. Beautiful country and fantastic food!
Flash Point History Thats so cool! You are always welcome to visit it again. I was born and raised in Europe but we visit our family and country twice a year. Im looking forward to the Mughal serie
@@GreeneyesSalma GO BACK TO SPAIN
It's possible that the mihrab pointed not towards Damascus but to Petra. The latest historical research has shown that the the twelve earliest Mosques of Islam all pointed to Petra not Mecca, and that they only started pointing there after the Abbasids took over. This has led some historians to believe that Muhammad came not from Mecca but in fact from Petra. It is certainly true that the topographical references to hills and ravines in relation to Muhammad's early struggles to establish his community connect well with Petra and not at all in any way with Mecca which was little more than a village with no strategic importance whatsoever at that time.
someone sent me an article about this not that long ago. Where they thought Petra figured into the founding story of Islam much more prominently
Great work! Remember, Islam is not an Abrahamic faith. This idea is a common Muslim deceit. Koran 5:51 says, “O you who have believed[Muslims], do not take the J * w s and the Nasara(Christians) as friends. They are friends to one another. And whoever among you takes them as friends, so surely he is of them. Surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” Koran 8:39 says, “And engage in war with them[Non-Muslims] until there will not be sedition and the religion will be completely to Allah…”
Don’t see how that makes Islam not an Abrahamic religion.
Is Christianity not an Abrahamic religion due to it’s long history of persecution of the Jews?
It’s not medeeval but medi eval hence medieval
Awesome work thanks
Thank you too! Happy that you liked this episode
Which is worse: living under the victor's rule and being able to practice one's religion, or, as happened with the reconquista, getting killed, deported or "forcibly" converted to the victor's religion?
This is why I'm a big believer in separation of church and state
Practice one's religion only as long as you pay the jizya
In your own land.
If you can't pay, thank you for playing - now convert or accept death.
The jizya was not merely payment like a tax - it was a means to show you were a subdued and wretched individual.
The jizya payer paid his taxes by lowering his gaze when approaching a Muslim
He had to keep his voice low.
He wasn't allowed to fix his churches unless the Muslim ruler allowed
The Christian vassal states had to regularly send his Muslim overlord preteen boys and girls for the Caliphate.
When the Spanish took over their own lands, why the hell would they need to tolerate a religion that subdued them and their sons and daughters for 700 years?
This was the conquered defeating their conqueror.
There was no time or patience to virtue signal.
One last point - Muslims primarily allowed Christians and Jews because these two groups could be taxed.
Slaughtering them would mean diluting your own treasury.
There are early stories of Muslim sultans chastising Imams for being too aggressive in spreading the Islamic faith because as the converts increased, the Sultan's treasury started drying up due to fewer Christians to tax.
Sorry Dude, but Isabella I, Queen of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon including Pope Innocentius VIII and Pope Rodrigo Borja were War criminals committed crimes against humanity, they ordered the ethnic cleansing if Spain on orders and the blessings of the Popes, killing and or expelling thousands of Spaniards from their homes and lands and stealing their Gold, lands and properties.
Nizar Dassouki Muslim tears are the best kind of tears. Womp womp womp
Flash Point History then you clearly don’t understand the inquisition which was an earl example of that principe. Just say you support secularism. Well at least for white people you. Exotic minorities they get to be religious fundamentalists.
2:58 That "Incident" meaning the 4rth Crusade xD
So you can conquer from India to Spain and you cry about a crusade? What kind of logic is that?
thanks, very well done.
Thank you!
James Burke the Day the Universe Changed. I think episode 1 talks about impoverished Rome in the 10th century. Toledo on the other hand was fabulously wealthy due to trade with Constantinople and everyone else with dough. Not only did it have indoor plumbing running water free health care but had a population of Christians and Muslims who lived together peacefully with more than a little intermarriage. The other thing about Toledo was it's extensive libraries, housing all the great minds of Helenistic antiquity. So Rome hired Cid the Pirate to loot prosperous Toledo which had gotten a bit fat and lazy. He sent a message back to the Pope saying "hey we're going to burn the place down except they have these massive libraries here all in Arabic." And Rome responded "NO don't touch anything except booty" The Pope dispatched scholars and for the next 100 years those libraries were translated into Latin introducing into the late Dark Age all the Roman Laws governing commerce without which Europe wouldn't have been able to prosper. The number zero. The notions of dressing for dinner and dessert but perhaps most importantly (Aristotle). Anyway the assimilation of these libraries into Europe is why the European University system was born.
The significance of the city of Toledo cannot be under scored. It was a repository of knowledge, a place where major translations occurred, and as you had mentioned a city of three faiths. The translations that occurred here would provide the rest of Latin speaking Europe knowledge of antiquity. Yeah
This channel is fantastic! The content combined with your talent is a real treat!!
10:10 This is an interesting point, the "quiblah" facing south towards Morocco instead of Mecca can hint to an early rebellious sentiment towards the religious establishment of the Umayad Caliphate which was ruled by an arabic elite claiming direct lineage to the prophet, and therefore implied superiority and privileged among the Muslim world.
I don't have exact references since I am only recalling this from my high school history teacher (in Morocco), but at a certain point Marrakech was made the official "quiblah" as an alternative Pilgrim destination for west african muslims.
Some have also mentioned in this youtube community that this could have been a reference to the idea that Petra was the originally sacred city as well.
@@FlashPointHx Take a look at the video "The making of Marrakesh: Abd al-Mumin and the Almohad Legacy"
The phd candidate starts talking about Mosques in Morocco and their choice of "quiblah" directions at around 10:30
The myth of the andulsian paradise
yup read that for this episode
It wasn’t a paradise, but it sure was better to live in than most other places at the time
jizya was a thing, but have to keep in mind in Islam taxes are forbidden. The only things which require monetary involvement is the jizyah and zakah. Zakah goes to poor people though, this is for muslims. 2.5% of any savings you have held onto for a year. Jizyah is for non muslims and their protection (funds military and so on).
Also it is wayyyyyyyyyy lower than what we have nowadays. Keep in mind muslim countries dont exactly follow islamic law so yeh, just sharing what islam actually says.
Mu‘ath ibn Jabal may Allaah be pleased with him who said, “The Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, sent me to Yemen and commanded me to take from every thirty cows a tabee‘ (two-year-old), and from every forty a musinnah (three-year-old), and from every person who had reached the age of puberty a dinar.” [At-Tirmithi; Al-Albani: authentic]
So that's basically equivalent to about $160.
We're there Jewish or christians and Muslims who were friends?
Meh, we currently live in the European so-called “Christian” (actually Catholic) West and there is a lot of intolerance, so you may point a finger to the past, but we are living in the present and can see with our own eyes what the Islamic and Catholic tolerances are. The Moors were the catalyst, not Islam, Judaism, nor Catholicism. Actual Christianity may have been the core belief that nurtured the cations of the Moors as a brother was returned to his owner as a brother, not a servant. And brothers in the faith are to treat each other well.
Al-Andalus holds a certain attractive mystique for me, I will admit, for some reason. It wasnt very tolerant by modern standards, but it certainly seems more tolerant in comparison to Ferdinand and Isabella and the Inquisition. But then, that's a very low bar. It's hard to be more intolerant than Ferdinand and Isabella. Lol.
agree - but it seems that as time went by Christianity and Islam in the Iberian peninsula became more and more polarized. You had a time of relative convivencia during the 9th -10th centuries and then the Crusades, then the Almoravids, then the Almohad, then the reformation, then the ottoman's victory over Constantinople etc. Intolerance and Inquisition seemed the next logical step
It was partially true otherwise not so much
Truth, is in the details. Thank you.
Completely agree! Thanks for watching