Why you should always choose an aero bike over lightweight | Cycling Weekly
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
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Ollie!! In a previous configuration.
love the fake laugh at 3:59
Put aero wheels and an aero handlebar on the climbing bikes. I want to know how much difference the frame itself makes. Everything else can be upgraded over time.
Pollex Cristi I also like the video showing unless you race anything more than 105 is a waste,
Pollex Cristi I agree, that is my point, the frame is the smallest drag factor next to your body and then your wheels.
^This. Most of the aerodynamic drag is on the leading edge of the bike. After the air passes by the rider, it's quite "dirty" and aerodynamics on the trailing edge of the bike don't make as big of a difference as the front.
@@prewirespecialists1239 Never been a racer but I do see that extra level of groupset provides me something 105 can't do. It is the amount of load on the system that defines the difference, 105 can't shift in the rear mech if my power exceeds 450W constantly, quite usual in a downhill breakaway on a club ride.
@@prewirespecialists1239 Frome is still winning the tour on 105 hate to break it to you
I was going to get an aero bike and it told me to fxxx off . It was very aggressive 😏
peebee1357 ba dum tiss
E-bike still win lmao!
Great video trying to look at real world bike use, appreciate the openness and honesty in the reviewing. Thought it was going to be an overly choreographed advert but it seemed relatively objective. Interesting observations about the perception of being quicker too...that alone can make us want to keep riding faster. Well done chaps - more of the same for regular riders please!
Hi from Spain, I really love tech and bike so I am looking forward to watch videos like this.
nice to see the three of you outside & on bikes.
If like to see someone compare a non areo frame and an areo frame. Same wheels same bars etc. Just to see how much difference a frame makes, or slap some deep section wheels into a climbing bike.
I like the way you think! Or just put deep drop handlebars on the same bike and make them stay on the drops for the whole circuit. Take it component by component and really dig into a study.
Thanks for another informative S5 video. I’m still fence sitting between this and the R5. Though the S5 screams my name a lot more.
Again my roads in Cali are a mixture of steep hills and rollers. Especially in the valley.
This is my local climb, cool to see you guys doing a lot in the Chilterns recently!
my bike is neither aero nor light...
endurance
Giant "The Brick (Oh my God what have you done to that poor stem)" Propel
So good to see someone where there cap properly. Plenty of lift. Perfect.
WEAR
well hang on what was the climbing bike!?
I love your channel!!!! i'm from Brazil!
Great test! I really liked this video :)
I ride for personal challenge and not for time, nor do I race. I perversely enjoy long hilly sportives. I don’t want to scream down descents at 80kmh, but being a low powered rider, I definitely appreciate light weight when going uphill more than speed on a flat or descent.
When you say that aerodynamic drag becomes the dominant force at 16km/h, that's versus rolling resistance. On a 4.5% gradient, the resistance of lifting your bike (and, much more importantly, body) up the hill is going to be much more than the rolling resistance, so it's a different calculation that yo need to do.
I can’t agree with the title of the video. I don’t think you should always choose an aero bike over lightweight just because you were quicker over a 7km course. I have an aero bike and a lightweight bike. The aero bike is a definitely quicker everywhere other than steep climbs. But the lightweight bike is more fun to ride. It’s more comfortable, more responsive and more flattering (accelerates and reacts to my inputs faster).
The aero advantage will disappear if you are drafting in a group (club ride or road race peloton). Obviously for solo riders, TT, or TRI, aero can be advantageous. Also worth keeping in mind that aero drag is proportional to the square of the air speed, so for slower folks (me) aero doesn't help as much. Plus aero frame and wheels carry a weight penalty. So aero vs lightweight depends on what you are doing. A good excuse to have one of each.
Paul Flory My understanding is physics doesn't care about the absolute speed. It's the terrain that matters regarding the effectiveness of aerodynamics.
ua-cam.com/video/MSAHa8brcCM/v-deo.html
I normally prefer a lightweight bike, but these days I was thinking about this and I'm considering to change my Émonda SL to a Canyon Aeroad in a future. The Canyon have mainly the same weight of the Émonda, because have the UCI limitation and for me that have a TT/climber profile, my chances is riding in a breakaway in some times. If in these moments riding solo the bike have a little gain, she did your job! :) What do you think about this? Is it a good change?
I have a cannondale evo which is very light and i put it against an old much heavier £500 giant bike with clip ons on and the giant was much faster. Your body is the main air block but every little helps.
i second that. i "need" a certain amount of speed to have fun, but i cant really feel a difference between 31kph and 32kph, but i can absolutely feel the difference between a very lightweight carbon and a heavy oem wheelset in terms of handling and responsiveness. so lighter wheight often beats pure aerodynamic optimization.
Great vid lads. Very sexy aero bikes, particularly the Giant.
Are you going to do a full review of the Venturi? There's nothing around and it would be interesting to see what it's like...
Good vid, I like areo that’s light like my R3 Cervelo 😄
normalized power is a useless value here because it is supposed to measure the stress of exercise for the body. average power would have been the one to go for.
max denger yep, don’t know how that got that wrong. Hmm
Better to refine one"s position for aero before paying for "speed."
It amazes me just how much faster a little skinny lightweight aero bike can go when compared to a little skinny bike. Literally it is just tube shapes and wheel engineering. It’s soo cool
You should duplicate the measurements of both bikes. Body position is way more important than the bike. A lower and more stretched out position on an aero bike may be faster, but only marginally because of the bike...
YES! I thought it was funky that these supposedly aero bikes had shallow drop handlebars and most of the footage of them riding they hand their hands on the tops or hoods rather than staying on the drops. Sometimes I think these videos are less about science or at least good testing and more about advertising the brands and models of bicycles shown.
@@dtshifter You'll find the geometry between a lot of aero and climbing bikes is not actually that much different. In fact the Giant Propel (aero) and the Giant TCR (climbing) has the same reach and stack height.
@@ssbagley That may be true but body position is a bigger factor in wind resistance than bicycle frame. My comment was about the shallow drop handlebars and the rider position.
@@dtshifter ahh yes I see what you mean now. But in fairness there's only a couple of shots in the vid like this. Climbing, you naturally sit up anyway and you can ride aero on the hoods if bending the elbow, which I actually find more aero. But I agree, cycling weekly do seem to have brand bias where they get freebies.
Come on, this is GCN. They get paid to advertise these bikes. Don't expect a scientific, objective comparison from them. Bike manufacturers want to sell us more bikes so they are pushing this narration that we all need integrated cockpits and heavy disc brakes. Who wouldn't be lured by the perspective of improving their Strava record by simply throwing more money on a new bike?
I have an aero energy bar to eat during ride. It helps me a lot. And my socks is aero as well. Would it help to increase watts?
For the kind of riding I like to do (100k or more rides) an aero bike would just kill me. Although, I will admit that being able to go super fast on those decents and flats would be awesome.
As with other comments please test again with same wheels, handlebars and brakes (for decent) to highlight frame difference. Thanks
10/10 great video.
Good test,l rode Aston hill yesterday and have both types of bike,old trek and ribble 883 l will try this test myself(have pm) may l suggest pishill loop also for this type of test or a heavy Vs lighter bike test there..
Good video!
What I want to know is the weight difference of the bikes. Second hand for the same price I can get a 6.5kg lightweight dura ace supersix evo vs an 8.2kg propel. I wonder if aero will overcompensate the extra 1.7kgs. Maybe not
So here's my argument for still getting the lightweight bike, let me know why I am wrong: I am 1.94 tall, 82kg in the season, so not exactly a climber. In the flat and on short and not too steep climbs I have no problem following even the strongest guys I am riding with. However, as you'd expect, I am struggling on longer and steeper climbs. So, the lightweight bike helps keeping the gap to the other riders on climbs to a minimum, whereas in the flat the reduced aerodynamics don't really matter because I can easily make up for that by putting a few more watts on the pedal.
all good and well, but this only applies to "solo" rides. If you look at the pro-tour and other large-group races, wouldn't the aero advantage be negligible due to drafting, riding in the pack. This means, that your best bet would be on a hard break-away attempt in the steep bit if the finish is at the top or with only a short decent for the aero-guy's to catch-up ?
Come out to Colorado, and climb up pikes peak's hill climb course. How much does altitude shift things in favor of the lightweight bike?
I don't really care that much about the science, but it'd be fun to watch you three climb pikes, and then do it all over again. :-)
Quite a few yrs ago I did an all out test with a mid range carbon roadbike(stock wheels), and my old 2006 rigid 26" mtb with 25mm slicks. Over 20km with about 600m of climbing I was 4 minutes slower on the mtb. Strangely in races I didn't seem to get the same aero benefit. I assume its because I'm not the type of rider who can ride away from a decent group and solo to the finish. My fastest time in a local 100km road race is still when I did it on that damned mtb! Thought on my road bike I'd be a good 15minutes quicker :(
Personally I'd choose aero over lightweight, but in race conditions with drafting etc the benefit is much less than you'd think.
What was the level of comfort between the aero and light weight bikes?
Why weren't you wearing your new Cycling Weekly kit?
I would be curious to see what wheels were being used with the lightweight bikes, so we could distinguish the gains made from aero wheels or aero frames.
Benjamin Daunoravicius spot on 👍👍👍
Benjamin Daunoravicius they made a conscious effort to never mention the climbing bikes because it’s an advertisement for aero bikes. The guy on the Scott bike didn’t have aero bars and wheels and he got the exactly the same time on both bikes but they didn’t talk about it as much because it didn’t go along with what they were trying to fool you with
@@tommurray4943 Exactly. I was surprised not to see the light weight climbing bikes they were talking about.
What is the difference in Wheelset depth / profile on Aero bikes vs Lightweight bikes ?
Did you try TESTING ALL the bikes with 2 " Controlled " same wheelset and tires ?
I found that a deeper profile / depth wheelset on a lightweight bike offers me a better , faster and more comfortable solution
Ollie why did u have a pair of Powertap pedals when u had shimano powermeter on??
Yeah there seem to be many caveats with aero bikes but particularly the fitter you get, aero is much more important. I think the difference in weight isn't actually that big - but I guess the difference in aero isnt that big either.
Coming from mountain bikes, it's crazy to see this 500g difference when MTBs go from about 9.5kg to 16kg.
A light bike will be more controllable and feel much nicer, I think.
At what point does weight come into consideration? I myself am a 59 kg rider on a 9.2 kg bike cycling predominately on rolling terrain. Would I benefit from weight more than aero (or vice versa) or a combination of the two? I'm upgrading my wheels to carbon. This will save me 1 kg (maybe more) and the rims will be 10 mm deeper than my stock allow rims.
Going by the test would you say a lower power means the lightweight bike could be a better bike overall or if you are less flexible. Would be nice to know the seatpost angle too so it is more clear whether the differences are down to rider position. Was the lightweight bike optimised for aero rider position like these presumably were?
exactly
Maybe Trek are onto something with their 2021 emonda.
Aero wheels? Or aero frame?
what light weight bikes did you use?
Wattage is not a word, the metric is called power and it's units are watts (sorry) the foil did save 2w. Silly to try to compare bikes 0.5-1.0kilo apart
This is the first time I’ve seen the Orro Venturi being released for test ride. I’d like to see a proper review of it...Can’t find anything much online yet. It’s on my shortlist.
Did you end up buying one? I had one on order in summer 2018 but it got delayed too many times so bought a Orro Gold with rim brakes. It's hilly and rough around here so probably the better bike since not using it in the wet, plus saved £1000, which has just gone on an Orro Terra C 😁.
This is a bit of a flawed test is it not? If you are testing the frame you should be using the same wheels. Or you are not testing aero bikes, your testing deep wheels that we know are faster in TT style riding. If you use the same wheels you wouldn't notice a significant difference in the frames because the biggest drag factor is your body (80%) and the second biggest is your wheels so the frame is almost insignificant.
Yes, but most lightweight bikes don't come with deep section wheels standard like aero bikes do. But yeah I presume a good middle road would be lightweight frame with aero wheels.
Michael L Thanks 👍🏻
"If you are testing the frame" They're not. They're testing the bike. The title of the video says "aero bike". The title frame at 0:09 says "Aerobike Special Challenge". The first words of the video are, "Areo bikes: we're all told that they're faster." So what gives you the idea that they're just testing the frame?
Entirely reasonable points. Not enough control over the variables in the test. As the designer of my bike said, you get more aero gains simply by changing your riding position.
Also many climbing bikes come with aero features that rival their aero bikes from the same manufacturer e.g. Tarmac vs. Venge. IMO classic race/climbing bike with aero wheels is the way to go for most of us non-racers who don’t also plan to slam our stem or wear aero helmets, jersey, etc at our local group ride. Gun to a knife fight kinda situation . The obvious decision for amateur racers who do rolling races or crits AERO F*ING EVERYTHING.
I like how they described the all-paved-roads course they rode as "mixed-terrain". This gets the condescending mountain biker head shake of disapproval lol
I wonder if the higher power was the deciding factor. Do you believe that the bikes are able to compound their aero benefits with more power? Will riders with less absolute power reap any significant benefit?
So how long and/or steep does a climb have to be for a lightweight bike to be more beneficial than an aero bike?
What is the long sleeve assos Jersey ollie is wearing?
If you stick clip on aero bars on the lightweight bike it will probably be faster than the aero road bike without clip ons on because your body is the biggest air block. If you stick clip on aero bars on a aero bike you will have almost a time trial bike and much better than a time trial bike for climbing with the drops but less so on the flat.
That laughter at 4:00
Can we redo this with 2020 models? ie. TCR vs Propel, Sigma Six vs System Six.
What was the ultra light bike?
TheGamingCucumber R5 for Oliver I guess?
love those aero shoe laces :(
Exactly. And let's not forget "aero" saddles, handlebar tape, socks, cable housing AND cables, spokes, shoes, brakes, front and rear derailleurs, pulleys, tires, nipples, gloves, jerseys, inner tubes, brake pads, set posts, and my fave............, chains.
Great video, but why are you all standing in the mud with white shoes on ? Especially the S-works 7’s !?
I highly doubt the power meters are all perfectly consistent. My Stages reads 10% lower than my KICKR at threshold
Not conclusive since those are brand new bikes with greats specs. The red guy was the same time and the weight difference for Oliver's aero bike was only 1/2 kilo so his still very light. I was expecting 8kg+ aero bike weights.
this doesn't take into account so many factors. If all things are equal and you're super flexible, have more money to burn, only care about speed and do not care about changing parts then sure just go buy the aero bike. BUT if you are looking for something with a little more all-day comfort geometry, maybe eventually don't want an integrated stem or brakes (to get bigger tires, swap the brakes or change the reach), and prefer slightly lighter on hills then the lightweight bike works better. Aero usually have more aggressive gear ratios too. The pros ride the lightweight versions. If you want a pure race machine, obviously just buy the aero bike. It all comes down to what the rider wants out of the bike.
Apart from the geometry of aero bike being quite aggressive. With a lot of brands the aero bikes need you to rob Fort Knox. Last thing, if you like to do long days in the saddle, they are not as comfortable. If aero was everything, they why do the pros not ride an wero bike everyday of the Tour De France or Paris Roubaix? Aero is the answer for all rides or ride types
Great Info guys !!
Aero all the way mates!👍
Were all 6 bikes disc brake versions? Do the test again with all 6 bikes over a 80km course of mixed gradients and see if you would still choose aero. 7km is a very short ride, what about comfort levels on the longer ones? What bike can you live with everyday if you can only have one bike is the question most of us has to answer.
Mark P I moved to a Felt AR1 aero bike. One of the biggest improvements to my previous light bike was the comfort. So much better.
What was your previous bike? How old was it?
Mark P Trek Madone 6.9. Lance's bike ha. About 9 years old I think.
Nice vid guys, however maybe its because im Jealous, nahh, but those sweet steeds are a wee bit out of my price range to own. I assume for you blokes as well. Could you maybe do a realisric test on affordable bikes for the average person?
Not sure if I agree with the methodology of the test. Lets not forget that in most rides/races we are in a peloton when on the flat and we get most breakaways on the climbs so from that perspective is an Aero bike really better than a light weight?? Yes I understand you have the descend but the actual real difference between Aero and Leight weight is not that big..
Emanuel de Sousa If you use the same wheels and rider position the difference on flat is tiny. It’s all marketing bullshit. This was clearly not a “test” of how aero and lightweight bikes compare. It is a sponsored video to help manufacturers sell bikes. I mean the guy of the Scott foil got the exact same time on both bikes but they just didn’t talk about it because it didn’t go along with their agenda
So I have the possibility of 10x your variable +\- . If I stretch the length to 70-80kms. That’s significant but I’m still waiting, as I have many hills along my ride, some over 14% for 300 ft elevation in .1 of a mile. Which sucksssss. I know I need a new bicycle but not sure weather it b climbing v aero.
What is the maximum distance one could optimally ride an aero bike (say, the 2012 Cervélo S5 Team) before feeling the effects (especially on the lower back) of the more aggressive aero position?
86,3km
What a reason why Scott Foil 20 is the slowest amongst three, not a good disc brake aero bike ?
Someone needs to sponsor the light weight climbing bikes so we can actually see them in the video.
If an aero frame can be 10-15 watts ''faster'', how much faster are 50mm wheels versus standard aluminium wheels?
that highly depends on the wind direction and how the tires work with the rim profile, but in ideal conditions should be around the same ballpark as the frame. i have one test of different (smi)aero wheels here. the worst where teal camering 44 disc with 224 watts (mind you, at 45kph with a 25mm conti 4000 sII), best where the 3t discus c60 with 215 watts.
(wind resistence together with a dummy on a canyon cf sl in the lab).
the zeal coincidentally also had a huge crosswind problem, where similar deep reynolds aero 46 had almost none.
That isn't true in real world even the aero frame makers admit that their 10-15 watts saving over non aero is the frame on its own in a wind tunnel and I think they admitted that once a rider is on board that saving is no where near that much as the whole frame isn't acting in an aero way due to the air disturbance of the rider and only the leading edge is actually making an aero improvement in the world of actually people on frame the aero frame makes only a tiny saving over a complete non aero frame. It's a lot of hocus pocus science lab based figures to sell frames.
That's not me dissbeleiving the manufacturers their FRAMES do save 10-15 watts but unfortunately in the real world a bike being ridden isn't just a frame in isolation
They base those frame savings at 30mph and normally a rider is putting out about 500 watts or so and therefore in the real world savings,once an aero frame is being ridden, would likely be well down in low single figures your probtalking about a drag saving of less than 1% and bearing in mind most power readers have an error approaching 1 percent for decent ones an aero frame even at 30mph may either save around 2% power at best or nothing at all
Then you have to look at that tiny saving and then compare that to psychological and physiological differences in people and what each person needs in feel and position to be able to perform at their peak performance and that tiny aero saving, if any becomes to me insignificant
Not suggesting any of the above are facts in any shape or form but my personal beliefs on the subject
This video is going to trigger so many people, but it’s so true. Specialized has been saying this for years....aero wins over light weight every time
That hill is behind the name of Aston Martin
I feel like these guys are so pro aero bike that they might have, subconsciously, tried to perform better while on the aero bike than on the lightweight bike.
Aerodynamics become the dominant force at 16 kmph. Didn't know that!
was the lightweight climbing bike mentioned?
no bike, running!
Not if it wasn't sponsored!
no, it's a commercial sales advert for the aero bicycle niche of the market, for easily influenced consumers.
ahh ollies pre-GCN days
Because the difference in weight is insignificant next to the the advantages of a more aerodynamic setup.
Whilst I stand in the mud in my 275e Sidi road shoes, the scott foil is full of wires....
if the UCI dropped the weight limit rule bikes would become both aero and lightweight
They got aero anyway but drop weight limit mean lighter and go up hills faster than aero but down hill aero win as heavier and aero
I don't like how everything is all about discs now. The kind of riding I do, along with traveling with my bike makes me dislike disc brakes. I'm looking at getting a new bike this year and with more manufacturers going with disc-only models, it's reducing the amount of choice I have with my budget (around 1500 USD). Kinda sucks.
Were the climbing bikes the same quality and brand as the aero bikes?? If you use a cheap climbing bike against a top notch aero bike, the results can be flawed.
a good commercial for big bike manufacturers
As quick as aero bikes may be, I don't think I'd have one as I'm not a fan of how they look. I know that sounds pathetic and shallow, but if I was given the option I'd always go towards a classic looking frame.
I mean it's all UCI limited. Both in Aero and Weight. Remove the more arbitrary rules and the optima change. There's a 2.7 kg climbing bike by Gunter Mai that will beat a 6.8 kg aero bike up even moderate hills. There's a super aero speedbike by Aerovelo that goes the speed limit on flats and coasts past sports cars on a few percent descent.
With half a kilo more you won't lose anything on such climbs... only pros will get a small difference , but only on long steep climbs... so aero will beat weight on any mixed terrain
This is not a fair video . You haven't pointed out which "non aero bikes" you have used. It would be preferable to use the equivalent climbing bike of the given brand. The "non aero" therm is kind of miss used and I give you an example: climbing bikes do have internal cable routing, some of them are using integrated stem/handlebar the do have di2/ etap , some use lightweight wheels so plenty of small aero features. I'm not saying that the aero savings on a dedicated bike are insignificant, but it really depends on what the rider is feeling more comfy.
Well if u want to just have fun on a bike I wouldn't recommend a real aero-bike, they just aren't as comfortable as lightweight bikes! And why don't get a bike like the new Specialized Tarmac, Rose X-Lite Six and Canyon Ultimate SLX, they all are very light but also have alot of aero-features and are very comfy!
koen miseur very true. Also the cost effectiveness for rose bikes is crazy. 7.2kg, r8070 (disc di2) for less than 3.5k? I mean come on
Not all Aero bikes are the same and not all are uncomfortable.
That said I think the title of this video is irrelevant for nearly all cyclists. Even if you're racing you spend most your time in the draft, there seems to be very few situations where having an Aero bike matters. If you really want to go fast solo, get a TT bike.
I ride a Rose xilte cw and i find it comfortable. Check your tyre pressure and get a good saddle.
My BH G6 is aero and comfy (skinny rear stays)
koen miseur try the Canyon Aeroad. Super comfortable and super fast
Always? There will be a break point for anything with 2 contributing factors. Unlimit your thinking from road ride
You guys should have added a third leg. Lightweight bike up the climb than bike change down thru the downhill and flat and see what time differences you get
How much would mounting an aero handlebar on the climbing bike level the playing field?
Not all that much, because it's right in front of your torso, which will be a problem anyway. It's more the shape of the headtube, the fork legs , the shape of the front rim and how the tire shape flows into the side of the rim, how the downtube deals with bottles, provided that you have bottles mounted.
Good point on the bar/torso dilemma. The wheel and tire combo is certainly another factor. It remains unclear whether Cycling Weekly used the same wheels on both the climbing and aero bikes to ensure that the aero frame was isolated.
At some point it's going to be hard to isolate the framesets, because more and more framesets are coming out with their proprietary stems, bars, brakes (in case of rim brake aero bikes). What's more, you can standardize the wheels, but that still doesn't say enough to conclude a result. An aero bike might work best with DT Swiss aero wheels, whilst a climbing bike might be most aero with ENVE wheels, giving one of them a disadvantage. It's very hard to guess how well a certain frameset will interact with a certain wheel. Or any other accessoire for that matter.
Personally, I'd say find the most aerodynamic combination of parts for a specific climbing frame, and find the most aerodynamic combination of parts for a specific aero frame. Then compare.
Aero bikes also put the rider in a more aero position so I wonder how much of a benefit that is over the frame itself.
exactly
8:29 Cycling shoes -- or perhaps covers -- with laces? I've never seen that, it doesn't seem very practical.
xchopp giro do great ones, empire slx are the best cycling shoes I’ve ever had
When you replace the standard laces with elasticated ultimate laces they become the most practical cycling shoes ever
A Rim brake is also a "disc brake" only with a 700mm diameter disc......😀
I’m sure thinner wheels are more aero than thicker ones aren’t they?
3T Strada = hands down 🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️