I experienced a lot of negative effects from meditating after years of dedicated practice. Numerous people/books/ideologies told me the only way out is through. As it turns out, more practice only led to more issues. This video makes it clear why stopping meditation and trying other things ended up being what was best for me. Thanks for sharing.
I had similar experiences. I was dedicated to practice and had strange experiences that required me to research deeper. As I learned more about the traditions from which these techniques came, I learned that these techniques were almost ALL, always combining the meditation with very firm plans of behavioral , dietary, and communal activities. I totally changed once I included all these - not just ‘meditation’ with optional behavior, optionally disciplined diet, optional community etc etc. I have felt kind of cheated by the ‘secularists’ who thought that lifting techniques completely out of their communal settings was a method of being forward-looking, but I have met many of them and I know their intentions were very good. Despite this goodness, that’s the been cause of so much of our pain and confusion now: disconnecting techniques from off-cushion behavior and community. I think the ‘positive psychology’ research community is finally closing that gap between “cushion and community”
@@Sprite_525in cultures where people practice Buddhism most of the population had no time for long, daily meditation. There are the monastic community to do that. The daily structure and the reality of life is very different from a western society. (Or it was very different a decade or more ago. Life is changing in the East and with less poverty, there are new ways of practicing and living with old traditions.)
I have a cousins who had very scary experiences. As soon as she closed her eyes, she couldn't stop her mind slipping into places where she didn't want to go. It all started positively and she originally enjoyed her meditations. At the end, she was afraid she can't "come back into her body".
Love the down-to-earth kind of advice you're giving! I feel the spiritual realm requires a grounded mind. And it is not for someone with an attitude of 'I'll just go see what happens'... that often can lead to unpleasant & unexpected experiences.
Waking up app and a few other off random meditation practices induced OCD and DP/DR in me that lead to chronic depression and anxiety and some really strange experiences like I can not stop noticing how weird facial features are and it's ruined my perfectly ok social life for 2-3 years. now i'm on meds and in therapy. I hope I become well once again Thank you so much. You're godsent.
I remember panicking at how ape-like and odd the human form is while trying to have a conversation with someone. Had OCD beforehand and ended up habitually focusing on my breath when I should have been thinking something through or paying attention to the situation.
@@neththom999 Have you found a way past this? A lot of times in conversation and turn into observation mode instead of being present with the words and ideas.
Shifting my goal to creating stability and engagement in my life, rather than seeking "peace and enlightenment" (which was actually escapism and avoidance)..... I can finally work towards getting my life back on track after 5 years... I turned 30 years old recently, I feel both sad that I'm not where I thought I'd be, but also really grateful that this hasn't persisted even longer.
OMG!!! You are soooo young and your whole life is front of you! You had an awesome lesson many don't realize until they die: the difference between escapism, avoidance and being in peace with life. You can have a life full of healthy engagement, thriving, learning, being the master of your own life and being open minded about your own experiences. Instead of chasing "enlightenment" (whatever one means by it), you can have a real human experience and life with its ups and downs, with human problems and with your empowered solving skills. Oneness? What is "afterlife"? We *all* will get clear about it after we die. In a way, we will get our enlightenment at the end.... Have a wonderful life!!!! ❤ You didn't lose anything, you gained a lot!
As a 10 year meditation instructor in a medical setting ...this is sage advice! I would only add safe complex physical exercises ( dance, basketball, ect ) Best Wishes
Thanks for this. You're saying the obvious and just what I needed to hear. We need to respect our bodies as sources of wisdom over the gurus. It's scary to give our power away to people who don't even know us.
You are playing with eastern mysticism demons only Jesus truly sets us free!Loose and Bind all demonic strongholds over you in Jesus mighty name Amen 🔥 👑 🕊
It’s all about balance, I am lazy at meditation , yet in 2009 my connection to consciousness heightened , I loved it , but I was still lazy and felt guilty that I still didn’t do the ‘spiritual work’ despite the gifts spirit gave me, now days I am learning to accept this is who I am and if spirit needs to contact me fine, I am here🤪 I still get guidance , just much more subtle now , but wow 2009 was awesome 👍🛸
I’m about to get into a somewhat heavy meditation practice, but I don’t want to reach some enlightened state or whatever mystical experiences or consciousness people want to achieve. Personally I want to get as close to the edge of that without actually going over it. I guess you could call that the middle way. I’m conscious that the current world and location I live in doesn’t suit the effects of someone going all in. I’ve never seen these videos about the dangers of meditation but now Im gonna be cautious and tip toe my way to my desired state of being with meditation.
I wondered this a lot after I had severe depersonalization-derealization for 14 months, and then after a separate, nine month long bout that was disabling. A lot of DPDR sufferers have thought this. Fortunately it appears not to be true.
Feedback: as someone whose experienced PTSD from going too far with mediation/psychedelics, saying "Probably" when saying 'you probably didnt break you brain' is harmful - at least to me. When i was in a bad place, hearing probably meant that there still was a chance and therefore the fear in my brain would take me to being in that small percentage that doesnt fall under 'probably'
I completely understand your distress. But the truth is you definitely did not break your brain. She accidentally used the wrong wording, but it's clear in her explanation that she means that you definitely did not break your brain! It's just important to stop practicing/doing the things that gave you these experiences and move towards things that can give you a bigger sense of wellbeing, connectedness with your body, while also allowing healthy idle states of mind. You will get through this!!! I promise. It's hard now. But you will heal. It's the definition of neuroplasticity.
@@flowersinflow agreed! I’m past that chapter actually and have healed. But that verbiage was hurtful in the past. But you’re so sweet. Thanks for the kind words and backing her up !
I was taught that whatever coming out of your mouth are just thoughts so you should stop, note the thinking and move on. This lead to an endless cycle of noting and resulting in the inability to form long contiguous thoughts. The act of day dreaming or thinking in long periods became non-existent and life became dark, almost futile. Becoming ocd about thinking about thinking. I'm still struggling but have stopped meditation all together but still struggle with this question. Headspace is the app I used that started working in concepts of self and all of this bullshit. I'm honestly fucking pissed at that because all I was trying to do was become a better person. I thought meditation would allow me to become a better more efficient version of myself, not this confused person worrying about free-will and thoughts.
i would like to know what you call meditation? is a 3 minute centering with observation your breath a meditation that can cause harm? or are you talking about much longer meditations?
Dr. Britton talks about that in several other videos. She never found issues with short meditation (about 10 minutes) every other day. Retreats lasting days seem to be the most problematic.
It is best to look at the research literature when confronting an issue like this. Many studies show that rumination (as well as continuous worrying and repetitive thoughts) is a *transdiagnostic risk factor* (i.e., having the same underlying mechanism) for the development and maintenance of psychiatric disorders. (I can provide many research articles if anyone wants.) Additionally other studies have consistently demonstrated that mindfulness can significantly reduce rumination. The simile of achilles tendon is a bad one - what we need to target is rumination, which can be targeted through very different meditation practices. When confronted with problems, I would suggest changing the practice to things like walking meditation (mindfully walking back and forth), or mindfully doing normal physical activities. They all address rumination.
If you meditate or practice any part of a pagan religion, you open yourself to demons attachment that translates in the science realm to psychosis episodes. The path to healing and peace is in Abrahamic religions, and the more monotheistic and ideologically cohesive the religion is, the better the results in peace and security mentally, emotionally and physically. I recommend Islam, but hey, research for yourself. Practising true monotheism “not three in one kind of deal” doesn’t prevent suffering in life, but your roots will be much more solid. It will mitigate any ordeal because you choose the right way to connect with your true one and only creator aided by a discerning belief system, surrounded by a congregation that is empathetic to your needs and alive with common big, well-defined aspirations for this life and after. Unlike the Pagan religion, which has scattered infinite gods, amorphous visions, and inspirations, it theoretically works well for the secular world as it does not demand a lot of conformity. You can “pick and choose” if you want to practice some of it and leave others, but it is detrimental to human nature. Human nature is wired for conformity, like the Ants empire, especially in the spiritual realm, more than in the practical civilian realm. Pagan religions and philosophies like Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism might spread a message that you can pick and choose any parts and leave as you wish. But in reality, once these demons attach to you, you only have two options: severe mental illness or diving deep into practising and exploring Paganism and Shamanism while still suffering from mental illness, a lack of emotional and spiritual security and a lack of solid societal support. As a result, you will be forced to conform, but you will conform to the confused and unsettled way of life due to confused indefinite visions that will multiply the effect of any downfall you will face. Even if millions believe in the same indefinite visions as you do, you will have a weak societal connection. It is like having a common language with indefinite letters, and everyone unlocks words and sounds every day; there will be no common language and ground. And believe me, having unlimited letters and sounds in a language is much less detrimental to the individual psyche than unlimited gods, visions, and aspirations.
Your ego gives you that illusion that thoughts are real. Who you really are has no thoughts. Not even thoughts of thoughts. Your mind is like a chirping bird outside your window. Do you need to know what it is saying?
Yeah you are in the wrong channel to be spreading these ideas. I was where you were once and it's not a rabbit hole I want to go back to. What mindfulness app or literature are you regurgitating right now? Did you ever think about that? SORRY I MEANT did that thought ever 'appear' and float by for you?🤣
Nope. Knowing is the problem. Following a method is the problem. It means you are forcing things instead of actually being curious about what's going on inside.
Why do people go to a neuroscience person for meditation advice?! One has to go to someone who has *practiced meditation, and have benefited from meditation and also really really understands meditation.* That is what I did many many years ago, and I will never ever regret that. Also, I’m not exaggerating when I say that meditation literally saved my life! Also, the type of happiness that meditation brings about is eudaimonic happiness, which is different from hedonic activities Britton is advocating. She seems to think that people’s problems have such simple solutions like “do something else”!
Look into Dr. Brittons line of research. Her specialty is dealing with meditation related difficulties and researching both the benefits and drawbacks of meditation. Please look into her research. Meditation isn’t a one size fits all treatment. It might’ve have worked for you but not for me.
@@neeboo461 To become an expert in any speciality, one needs to practice and carefully learn the practice. Mindfulness is not something one does to bring about brain changes - it is about getting to know one’s first-person experiences (and thereby cultivate self-knowledge and wisdom). Her research indicates considerable ignorance about these basic understandings, and also about issues relating to recent developments in mindfulness research. Anyone can benefit from mindfulness - one needs to start with a type of practice that suits them. People also need to start small and then gradually extend the practice for longer durations.
@@mindfulmoments4956 I would rather listen to a researcher who has interviewed and spoken with hundreds of meditators, who knows the research literature about meditation-related difficulties in and out and meditates herself, than a meditator who bases his og her knowledge on first-hand experience (i.e. "I have not experienced difficulties with meditation, therefore meditation doesn't result in difficulties"). Experiences vary and therefore science (that indcludes hundreds and thousands of meditators in the overall research) is much more telling than isolated experiences.
@@mindfulmoments4956 Also, I don't really buy the argument-"To become an expert in any speciality, one needs to practice and carefully learn the practice". To become an expert in addiction, one does not need to become an addict. Same goes for paraphilias, self-harm, phobias, and so on. I don't believe it's a valid argument.
@@simbro4365 The problem is that she cherry picks negative aspects of meditation. For example, she doesn’t include control groups in her research (perhaps she fears that control groups would also report negative experiences?). Also, she only interviews people who report negative experiences of meditation. This is very unscientific. If someone makes an announcement in social media asking anyone to report negative experiences that they have had *when going for a normal nature walk* - there would be thousands of stories that people would tell! This does not mean that walks are dangerous!
I experienced a lot of negative effects from meditating after years of dedicated practice. Numerous people/books/ideologies told me the only way out is through. As it turns out, more practice only led to more issues. This video makes it clear why stopping meditation and trying other things ended up being what was best for me. Thanks for sharing.
I had similar experiences. I was dedicated to practice and had strange experiences that required me to research deeper. As I learned more about the traditions from which these techniques came, I learned that these techniques were almost ALL, always combining the meditation with very firm plans of behavioral , dietary, and communal activities. I totally changed once I included all these - not just ‘meditation’ with optional behavior, optionally disciplined diet, optional community etc etc.
I have felt kind of cheated by the ‘secularists’ who thought that lifting techniques completely out of their communal settings was a method of being forward-looking, but I have met many of them and I know their intentions were very good. Despite this goodness, that’s the been cause of so much of our pain and confusion now: disconnecting techniques from off-cushion behavior and community. I think the ‘positive psychology’ research community is finally closing that gap between “cushion and community”
What other things did you try?
@@Sprite_525in cultures where people practice Buddhism most of the population had no time for long, daily meditation. There are the monastic community to do that. The daily structure and the reality of life is very different from a western society. (Or it was very different a decade or more ago. Life is changing in the East and with less poverty, there are new ways of practicing and living with old traditions.)
I have a cousins who had very scary experiences. As soon as she closed her eyes, she couldn't stop her mind slipping into places where she didn't want to go.
It all started positively and she originally enjoyed her meditations. At the end, she was afraid she can't "come back into her body".
People/books/traditions are the problem. As Krishnamurti told us long ago.
Love the down-to-earth kind of advice you're giving! I feel the spiritual realm requires a grounded mind. And it is not for someone with an attitude of 'I'll just go see what happens'... that often can lead to unpleasant & unexpected experiences.
Waking up app and a few other off random meditation practices induced OCD and DP/DR in me that lead to chronic depression and anxiety and some really strange experiences like I can not stop noticing how weird facial features are and it's ruined my perfectly ok social life for 2-3 years. now i'm on meds and in therapy. I hope I become well once again
Thank you so much. You're godsent.
I remember panicking at how ape-like and odd the human form is while trying to have a conversation with someone. Had OCD beforehand and ended up habitually focusing on my breath when I should have been thinking something through or paying attention to the situation.
Come to Jesus now he sets the captive free Amen 🔥 👑 🕊
@@marksimons9359 Indeed, if you are going to follow any kind of practice or tradition and repeat it, you might as well just pray. No difference.
@@neththom999 Have you found a way past this? A lot of times in conversation and turn into observation mode instead of being present with the words and ideas.
The Waking Up app has at least one track about the dark side of meditation
Shifting my goal to creating stability and engagement in my life, rather than seeking "peace and enlightenment" (which was actually escapism and avoidance)..... I can finally work towards getting my life back on track after 5 years... I turned 30 years old recently, I feel both sad that I'm not where I thought I'd be, but also really grateful that this hasn't persisted even longer.
OMG!!! You are soooo young and your whole life is front of you! You had an awesome lesson many don't realize until they die: the difference between escapism, avoidance and being in peace with life. You can have a life full of healthy engagement, thriving, learning, being the master of your own life and being open minded about your own experiences. Instead of chasing "enlightenment" (whatever one means by it), you can have a real human experience and life with its ups and downs, with human problems and with your empowered solving skills. Oneness? What is "afterlife"? We *all* will get clear about it after we die. In a way, we will get our enlightenment at the end....
Have a wonderful life!!!! ❤
You didn't lose anything, you gained a lot!
As a 10 year meditation instructor in a medical setting ...this is sage advice! I would only add safe complex physical exercises ( dance, basketball, ect ) Best Wishes
Thanks for this. You're saying the obvious and just what I needed to hear. We need to respect our bodies as sources of wisdom over the gurus. It's scary to give our power away to people who don't even know us.
I’ve had insomnia. And I simply fell asleep to a meditation one night and haven’t slept since.
You are playing with eastern mysticism demons only Jesus truly sets us free!Loose and Bind all demonic strongholds over you in Jesus mighty name Amen 🔥 👑 🕊
It’s all about balance, I am lazy at meditation , yet in 2009 my connection to consciousness heightened , I loved it , but I was still lazy and felt guilty that I still didn’t do the ‘spiritual work’ despite the gifts spirit gave me, now days I am learning to accept this is who I am and if spirit needs to contact me fine, I am here🤪 I still get guidance , just much more subtle now , but wow 2009 was awesome 👍🛸
Thank you ❤
TY LOGICAL SOUND ADVICE....GREAT JOB!!
I’m about to get into a somewhat heavy meditation practice, but I don’t want to reach some enlightened state or whatever mystical experiences or consciousness people want to achieve. Personally I want to get as close to the edge of that without actually going over it. I guess you could call that the middle way. I’m conscious that the current world and location I live in doesn’t suit the effects of someone going all in. I’ve never seen these videos about the dangers of meditation but now Im gonna be cautious and tip toe my way to my desired state of being with meditation.
I wondered this a lot after I had severe depersonalization-derealization for 14 months, and then after a separate, nine month long bout that was disabling. A lot of DPDR sufferers have thought this. Fortunately it appears not to be true.
What do you mean? What's not true. Sorry, I didn't get it.
@cavallopazzo340 probably that it's permanent and unfixable
Feedback: as someone whose experienced PTSD from going too far with mediation/psychedelics, saying "Probably" when saying 'you probably didnt break you brain' is harmful - at least to me. When i was in a bad place, hearing probably meant that there still was a chance and therefore the fear in my brain would take me to being in that small percentage that doesnt fall under 'probably'
But support and love so much what youre doing
I completely understand your distress. But the truth is you definitely did not break your brain. She accidentally used the wrong wording, but it's clear in her explanation that she means that you definitely did not break your brain! It's just important to stop practicing/doing the things that gave you these experiences and move towards things that can give you a bigger sense of wellbeing, connectedness with your body, while also allowing healthy idle states of mind. You will get through this!!! I promise. It's hard now. But you will heal. It's the definition of neuroplasticity.
@@flowersinflow agreed! I’m past that chapter actually and have healed. But that verbiage was hurtful in the past. But you’re so sweet. Thanks for the kind words and backing her up !
@@rickycontreras2766 I'm so glad to hear you have healed! :) could you share what has helped you the most?
@@flowersinflow so my offer/advice to you is the same offer/advice I had for the other response in this chain:)
I was taught that whatever coming out of your mouth are just thoughts so you should stop, note the thinking and move on. This lead to an endless cycle of noting and resulting in the inability to form long contiguous thoughts. The act of day dreaming or thinking in long periods became non-existent and life became dark, almost futile. Becoming ocd about thinking about thinking. I'm still struggling but have stopped meditation all together but still struggle with this question. Headspace is the app I used that started working in concepts of self and all of this bullshit. I'm honestly fucking pissed at that because all I was trying to do was become a better person.
I thought meditation would allow me to become a better more efficient version of myself, not this confused person worrying about free-will and thoughts.
i would like to know what you call meditation? is a 3 minute centering with observation your breath a meditation that can cause harm? or are you talking about much longer meditations?
Dr. Britton talks about that in several other videos. She never found issues with short meditation (about 10 minutes) every other day. Retreats lasting days seem to be the most problematic.
It is best to look at the research literature when confronting an issue like this. Many studies show that rumination (as well as continuous worrying and repetitive thoughts) is a *transdiagnostic risk factor* (i.e., having the same underlying mechanism) for the development and maintenance of psychiatric disorders. (I can provide many research articles if anyone wants.) Additionally other studies have consistently demonstrated that mindfulness can significantly reduce rumination. The simile of achilles tendon is a bad one - what we need to target is rumination, which can be targeted through very different meditation practices. When confronted with problems, I would suggest changing the practice to things like walking meditation (mindfully walking back and forth), or mindfully doing normal physical activities. They all address rumination.
If you meditate or practice any part of a pagan religion, you open yourself to demons attachment that translates in the science realm to psychosis episodes. The path to healing and peace is in Abrahamic religions, and the more monotheistic and ideologically cohesive the religion is, the better the results in peace and security mentally, emotionally and physically. I recommend Islam, but hey, research for yourself.
Practising true monotheism “not three in one kind of deal” doesn’t prevent suffering in life, but your roots will be much more solid. It will mitigate any ordeal because you choose the right way to connect with your true one and only creator aided by a discerning belief system, surrounded by a congregation that is empathetic to your needs and alive with common big, well-defined aspirations for this life and after.
Unlike the Pagan religion, which has scattered infinite gods, amorphous visions, and inspirations, it theoretically works well for the secular world as it does not demand a lot of conformity. You can “pick and choose” if you want to practice some of it and leave others, but it is detrimental to human nature.
Human nature is wired for conformity, like the Ants empire, especially in the spiritual realm, more than in the practical civilian realm.
Pagan religions and philosophies like Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism might spread a message that you can pick and choose any parts and leave as you wish. But in reality, once these demons attach to you, you only have two options: severe mental illness or diving deep into practising and exploring Paganism and Shamanism while still suffering from mental illness, a lack of emotional and spiritual security and a lack of solid societal support.
As a result, you will be forced to conform, but you will conform to the confused and unsettled way of life due to confused indefinite visions that will multiply the effect of any downfall you will face.
Even if millions believe in the same indefinite visions as you do, you will have a weak societal connection. It is like having a common language with indefinite letters, and everyone unlocks words and sounds every day; there will be no
common language and ground.
And believe me, having unlimited letters and sounds in a language is much less detrimental to the individual psyche than unlimited gods, visions, and aspirations.
Your ego gives you that illusion that thoughts are real. Who you really are has no thoughts. Not even thoughts of thoughts. Your mind is like a chirping bird outside your window. Do you need to know what it is saying?
By emptying your mind you are opening portals into the demonic realness only Jesus has the power to set the captive free!!Amen 🔥 👑 🕊
Yeah you are in the wrong channel to be spreading these ideas. I was where you were once and it's not a rabbit hole I want to go back to. What mindfulness app or literature are you regurgitating right now? Did you ever think about that? SORRY I MEANT did that thought ever 'appear' and float by for you?🤣
Just stick with the Buddhists, they know this stuff.
Nope. Knowing is the problem. Following a method is the problem. It means you are forcing things instead of actually being curious about what's going on inside.
Why do people go to a neuroscience person for meditation advice?! One has to go to someone who has *practiced meditation, and have benefited from meditation and also really really understands meditation.* That is what I did many many years ago, and I will never ever regret that. Also, I’m not exaggerating when I say that meditation literally saved my life! Also, the type of happiness that meditation brings about is eudaimonic happiness, which is different from hedonic activities Britton is advocating. She seems to think that people’s problems have such simple solutions like “do something else”!
Look into Dr. Brittons line of research. Her specialty is dealing with meditation related difficulties and researching both the benefits and drawbacks of meditation. Please look into her research. Meditation isn’t a one size fits all treatment. It might’ve have worked for you but not for me.
@@neeboo461 To become an expert in any speciality, one needs to practice and carefully learn the practice. Mindfulness is not something one does to bring about brain changes - it is about getting to know one’s first-person experiences (and thereby cultivate self-knowledge and wisdom). Her research indicates considerable ignorance about these basic understandings, and also about issues relating to recent developments in mindfulness research. Anyone can benefit from mindfulness - one needs to start with a type of practice that suits them. People also need to start small and then gradually extend the practice for longer durations.
@@mindfulmoments4956 I would rather listen to a researcher who has interviewed and spoken with hundreds of meditators, who knows the research literature about meditation-related difficulties in and out and meditates herself, than a meditator who bases his og her knowledge on first-hand experience (i.e. "I have not experienced difficulties with meditation, therefore meditation doesn't result in difficulties"). Experiences vary and therefore science (that indcludes hundreds and thousands of meditators in the overall research) is much more telling than isolated experiences.
@@mindfulmoments4956 Also, I don't really buy the argument-"To become an expert in any speciality, one needs to practice and carefully learn the practice". To become an expert in addiction, one does not need to become an addict. Same goes for paraphilias, self-harm, phobias, and so on. I don't believe it's a valid argument.
@@simbro4365 The problem is that she cherry picks negative aspects of meditation. For example, she doesn’t include control groups in her research (perhaps she fears that control groups would also report negative experiences?). Also, she only interviews people who report negative experiences of meditation. This is very unscientific. If someone makes an announcement in social media asking anyone to report negative experiences that they have had *when going for a normal nature walk* - there would be thousands of stories that people would tell! This does not mean that walks are dangerous!