Chatting to Don soon. Any questions for him for our next podcast, please reply to this comment. THANKS FOR WATCHING! If you enjoyed the content, please like and share this video, subscribe to the channel, and turn on notifications for future updates. :)
Space and time are fundamental in our lives even if they aren't working for physics, maybe we will find a way to replace those things in our reality. The observer independed fundamental reality is never directly accesible anyway, we are building a place we can never visit.
A. Why are we here? B. What are we supposed to be doing? C. How do we do that? If you can't answer these questions then your theory has no more function than any other
@@Nonconceptuality A. is the Cause-Les Cause, We have always been Here, the Only Real Steady Point, in Existence, Eternity. B. The Life-Desire is Motor of Life, the Compass is the Hunger- and Satisfaction-Principles. C. Our Thinking is Printer of Reality, Feeling is Window, Contrast-Princip and Perspective-Princip, make Feeling into Sensing, all experiences, is Feeling-Experience First Hand. Rainbow picture our Consciousness, Basic-Abilities, and Basic-Developing-Circuit, a range of Creator-Principles make it, 'come alive'. The Eternal Life, have No meaning, No name, General Purpose, is Life-Performance, Experience Creation and Development of our Eternal Consciousness. It all 'rest' in the Developing-Spiral and Cosmic Order. Our Day-Consciousness is the Life-side, Stuff-side is a Motion-Ocean, both is Motion. When In-Put become Out-Put, is the Point of Turning the Energies. Life isn't physical in it Self, the Motion (-Principle) is the most Precious Sign of Life.
@@drtevinnaidu Please ask if he had considered string theory as mathematics of consciousness. We started questioning fundamental reality in about consciousness with quantum mechanics whereas spacetime (which is doomed) in general relativity is entirely observer dependent. It's natural and no doubt that the math that unifies the two, which after 100 years of string theory is the only game in town, is about consciousness. The fact is we don't understand what consciousness is and consciousness could be (is definitely) deeper than what we think. I am absolutely certain that string theory is describing Yogacara Buddhism which is extremely complex and hard to grasp. Would he be open enough to hear me out?
By the way, not only spacetime is doomed but physics is also doomed. Quantum mechanics is about extremely small, non local, spacetime is fixed. General relativity is about extremely large, local, spacetime is dynamical. The two can't be integrated. Physics is a combination of the two like "a couple of family" but the two is never a union of "a couple of family". Anything in the universe has to be explained by both separately - but when explained together then there will be infinity of black holes and everything will be evaporated. Even something as simple as this physics can't resolve and hence physics is doomed. String theory which unifies the two which after almost 60 nobody understands is not about physics but about consciousness. Please ask Don what he thinks about this. Thanks.
I’ve had psychic visions, at times, since childhood - through space and time - and have seen into things before they manifested decades later. Including seeing world events ahead. I've even had experiences where I have seen into past events, as if they were my own, from what appear to be past lives. I've physically gone to other countries to visit places I remember from those lives I see through. I've seen into the realms of spirit and have had experiences of seeing from the realms of spirit. From all that I have experienced, it seems to me. True consciousness is spiritually based from our souls which are beyond the space of time. Our spirits resonate through spaces of time and manifest physicalities to incarnate these minds and bodies within. Though we are 'alive' before we incarnate in these bodies and are 'alive' when we leave these bodies. How conscious one is within the process of all that depends on the clarity of light within their spirits frequency.
This is lovely and I’d wonder if you could expand on what you mean by “clarity of light” that is in the spirits frequency? I’m curious if this feeds into the law of one view point..
You claim immanent experience of transcendency, and I will give you, that your claims are sincere. What I can't test is whether they are true and meaningful. Truth is the experience of pain at the limits of our body, and meaning is the experience of despair at the limits of our identity. Do your claims produce painful truth and desparate meaning, or do they promise to avoid them?
@@curtcoller3632 Probably due to deterministic materialism never being able to account for consciousness, memory, or other interesting phenomena, nor having a clue how to explain the non-local effects of consciousness...
@@betacam235 i can explain how an input can modulate a monad with a given endofunctor, and how this input can be made operational for later retrieval. It's up to you to explain, why and how that isn't consciousness and memory. Because your qualiameter disagrees?
@@stefanb6539 It seems to me you aren't making any effort to distinguish between identity and similarity. If you haven't grasped this yes, you might find it impossible to tell a machine response from a conscious response. My definition of consciousness involves a foundation of awareness. I'm unclear in what sense you use 'monad'...software or Pythagorean?
Okay - as you wish. Just think about what you just said here: You can't breath but claim logical scientific progress? Amazing. People who don't breath normally lose "consciousness" and die.
I wish good luck to Donald Hoffman and Nima Arkani Hamed, I know the importance of scientific proof, but I prefer the interpretation of Kabbalah plus Panpsychism and Panentheism by Hyman Schipper which explains the Hard Problem of Consciousness and is more accessible and palatable to me and that is fine beyond Space/Time, even considering that Hyman Schipper's Kabbalah cannot be tested.
Sounds very smart - you are using rare wording. But is it really smart or just a bluff speech? Let me define: A speech that is intended to impress with words and conclusions not even the speaker does understand. That's what YOU are.
Until we interpret the physical meaning of the DIGITS, with which we calculate in our minds (NOT the electrons of the BITs in the chips we manufacture), all the phenomena we describe with mathematical formulae would remain deceptive. Remember, none of the particles (except THE PHOTON) in the Standard Model of Particles has any direct relevance whatsoever to our perceptions, while there are 5 more senses (including BREATHING as the common sense ~ common to all 3 entities: PLANTS, ANIMALS and HUMANS) unrepresented by any unique particle. Neither are the feelings of needs (hunger, fear, pain,...) and satisfaction particle physically interpreted. Nature can't be so stupid to provide us 6 senses and feelings, if all the rest can be derived as functions of just one sense perception: SIGHT. This is the reason why human race in its entire history, from antiquity to present day, from Thales of Miletus to Stephen Hawking (and still continuing), is yet to derive the mathematical model for the mechanism of even a single natural phenomenon that could PREDICT accurately when that phenomenon may harm life function, let alone PREVENT such ~ which SHOULD, in fact, be the sole purpose cum criterion of proof af all knowledge.
Hoffman’s ideas are quite ingenious but I detect a few problems: 1) if his argument is an evolutionary one, such that evolution wouldn’t select for veridical perception of reality we have the problem that the only reason we believe that evolution happened is by observing it in the world, and that’s not, in his theory, a valid inference since our consciousness doesn’t give us access to the truth of “physical” reality. The grounding for his argument argument seems compromised. If evolution happened, we couldn’t know it, because evolution is selecting against direct reality perception! 2) Hoffman just completely mischaracterizes IIT in regards to its ability to describe why the quality of our experiences have the character they do as opposed to some other character. Describing how the shapes of integrated information delineate the phenomenological character of the experiences associated with them is a central part of the theory, though very complicated. Maybe he thinks the theory fails at this effort, but it’s, in any event, not something IIT ignores. Far from it.
I wish DH gave us something new I feel I could name every point he makes and has made for past 9 years in support of his theory Every podcast feel like listening to the same song sung in the same way Very believable but limited I am convinced of simulation cos it just feels like one
I absolutely admire his vision, thinking, and effort in building a theory of consciousness with mathematics, his insight in spacetime which is doomed, and his effort must have been against the orthodox of physics. However, he could have gone further to state as the result of spacetime is doomed there's no physics. His name will certainly be on history books of consciousness, science, humanity and so on as he is the first who tried to build maths on consciousness. I would like to give him all best wishes but that is against my knowledge and I would be hypocritical as I know he is certainly on the wrong path as that mathematics is string theory and he has oversimplified consciousness.
Dr. Hoffman. I am an admirer of you and your work, but could you please rethink your use of the word “doomed” regarding time and space? Consider substituting the concept “levels of abstraction.” For most scientific questions and engineering problems working with three dimensions of space and one of time is the correct level of abstraction. Just because there might be a deeper level does not mean that spacetime is “doomed.” This language is confusing, misleading, and ultimately undermines your credibility. The principles of biology are not “doomed” because at a deeper level of abstraction all biology is a function of hadrons and bosons. Ridiculous.
Seconded. It’s an odd word choice / feels out of place in terms of objective scientific verbage, and undermines the validity in the rest of his argument. The first few times I heard him say it I had the same thought.
Not all, his repeating the same model of consciouness, consciouness stuides as repeated through out history, specfically from the Wisdom of sages, mystics and saints from both and east and west, as as far back 3000 years in the east! Those stuck in physcalist paradigm are no different then those stuck in religious dogma, stuck in a box in a corner of space-time ignoring all the evidence that may sink their beliefs, cherry picking what keeps them in their little space. Ignorance on a massive scale.
@@RRR1-z9c I understand it. Spacetime isn’t real bc the Planck length isn’t the smallest scale & contemporary physics breaks down. That’s why spacetime is a headset we wear. That is confused thinking on Hoffman’s part. I understand it, & it is confused.
Chatting to Don soon. Any questions for him for our next podcast, please reply to this comment.
THANKS FOR WATCHING!
If you enjoyed the content, please like and share this video, subscribe to the channel, and turn on notifications for future updates. :)
Space and time are fundamental in our lives even if they aren't working for physics, maybe we will find a way to replace those things in our reality. The observer independed fundamental reality is never directly accesible anyway, we are building a place we can never visit.
A. Why are we here?
B. What are we supposed to be doing?
C. How do we do that?
If you can't answer these questions then your theory has no more function than any other
@@Nonconceptuality
A. is the Cause-Les Cause, We have always been Here,
the Only Real Steady Point, in Existence, Eternity.
B. The Life-Desire is Motor of Life, the Compass is
the Hunger- and Satisfaction-Principles.
C. Our Thinking is Printer of Reality, Feeling is Window,
Contrast-Princip and Perspective-Princip, make
Feeling into Sensing, all experiences, is Feeling-Experience
First Hand.
Rainbow picture our Consciousness, Basic-Abilities,
and Basic-Developing-Circuit, a range of
Creator-Principles make it, 'come alive'.
The Eternal Life, have No meaning, No name,
General Purpose, is Life-Performance, Experience
Creation and Development of our Eternal Consciousness.
It all 'rest' in the Developing-Spiral and Cosmic Order.
Our Day-Consciousness is the Life-side,
Stuff-side is a Motion-Ocean, both is Motion.
When In-Put become Out-Put, is the Point
of Turning the Energies.
Life isn't physical in it Self,
the Motion (-Principle) is the most
Precious Sign of Life.
@@drtevinnaidu Please ask if he had considered string theory as mathematics of consciousness. We started questioning fundamental reality in about consciousness with quantum mechanics whereas spacetime (which is doomed) in general relativity is entirely observer dependent. It's natural and no doubt that the math that unifies the two, which after 100 years of string theory is the only game in town, is about consciousness. The fact is we don't understand what consciousness is and consciousness could be (is definitely) deeper than what we think. I am absolutely certain that string theory is describing Yogacara Buddhism which is extremely complex and hard to grasp. Would he be open enough to hear me out?
By the way, not only spacetime is doomed but physics is also doomed. Quantum mechanics is about extremely small, non local, spacetime is fixed. General relativity is about extremely large, local, spacetime is dynamical. The two can't be integrated. Physics is a combination of the two like "a couple of family" but the two is never a union of "a couple of family". Anything in the universe has to be explained by both separately - but when explained together then there will be infinity of black holes and everything will be evaporated. Even something as simple as this physics can't resolve and hence physics is doomed. String theory which unifies the two which after almost 60 nobody understands is not about physics but about consciousness. Please ask Don what he thinks about this. Thanks.
I’ve had psychic visions, at times, since childhood - through space and time - and have seen into things before they manifested decades later. Including seeing world events ahead. I've even had experiences where I have seen into past events, as if they were my own, from what appear to be past lives. I've physically gone to other countries to visit places I remember from those lives I see through. I've seen into the realms of spirit and have had experiences of seeing from the realms of spirit. From all that I have experienced, it seems to me. True consciousness is spiritually based from our souls which are beyond the space of time. Our spirits resonate through spaces of time and manifest physicalities to incarnate these minds and bodies within. Though we are 'alive' before we incarnate in these bodies and are 'alive' when we leave these bodies. How conscious one is within the process of all that depends on the clarity of light within their spirits frequency.
This is lovely and I’d wonder if you could expand on what you mean by “clarity of light” that is in the spirits frequency? I’m curious if this feeds into the law of one view point..
See - your spirit did not awake yet! It's not an awakening spirit, it's a spirit that would need some grammar lectures.
In other words: you are a mental case in need of help since childhood.
@@curtcoller3632 Oooooh....pedantic he is.....
You claim immanent experience of transcendency, and I will give you, that your claims are sincere. What I can't test is whether they are true and meaningful. Truth is the experience of pain at the limits of our body, and meaning is the experience of despair at the limits of our identity. Do your claims produce painful truth and desparate meaning, or do they promise to avoid them?
12:18 am. Hoffman is correct about consciousness being fundamental
And YOU know that HOW?
@@curtcoller3632 Probably due to deterministic materialism never being able to account for consciousness, memory, or other interesting phenomena, nor having a clue how to explain the non-local effects of consciousness...
@@betacam235 i can explain how an input can modulate a monad with a given endofunctor, and how this input can be made operational for later retrieval. It's up to you to explain, why and how that isn't consciousness and memory. Because your qualiameter disagrees?
@@stefanb6539 It seems to me you aren't making any effort to distinguish between identity and similarity.
If you haven't grasped this yes, you might find it impossible to tell a machine response from a conscious response.
My definition of consciousness involves a foundation of awareness.
I'm unclear in what sense you use 'monad'...software or Pythagorean?
This breakthrough in rigorous Science is both breathtaking and truly logical
Okay - as you wish. Just think about what you just said here: You can't breath but claim logical scientific progress? Amazing. People who don't breath normally lose "consciousness" and die.
Fascinating talk! My book ("Origins of Life's Sensoria") attempts to explain many of these basic concepts.
Thank you! I'll have a look out for your book.
We should think of consciousness as a sort of singularity as important as the neutron or a supermassive black hole.
Bit of stretch? Maybe. Maybe not.
Going behind space time transcend of this state.Mathemathique in the head set
Im following, but.... "geometry outside spacetime"...?? Isnt space necessesary for doing geometry???
Space is Not doomed, every child know what time-space is.
@@holgerjrgensen2166 Did I say "space is doomed"? What are you talking about?
Spacetime refers to the 3 dimensions + time
@@Jay-kk3dv The three dimensions, is
Micro- Medio- and Macro-Cosmos,
Time is 'the effect' of Travel,
'Shadow of Motion'.
3D space is one aspect of geometry as a whole.
How does anything happen without time? Do conscious agents as fundamental blocks of reality need time?
No it doesn't need time.
I wish good luck to Donald Hoffman and Nima Arkani Hamed, I know the importance of scientific proof, but I prefer the interpretation of Kabbalah plus Panpsychism and Panentheism by Hyman Schipper which explains the Hard Problem of Consciousness and is more accessible and palatable to me and that is fine beyond Space/Time, even considering that Hyman Schipper's Kabbalah cannot be tested.
Sounds very smart - you are using rare wording. But is it really smart or just a bluff speech? Let me define: A speech that is intended to impress with words and conclusions not even the speaker does understand. That's what YOU are.
Please have John Macken on the show.
Consciousness living a mind wake. There wouldn't be a universe if there wasn't mind.
Check out the work of physicist Fredrico Faggin. He actually experienced consciousness outside of his body.
Here's my chat with Federico: ua-cam.com/video/MSn4t6fP_dc/v-deo.html
has anybody seen a podcast with one of these high energy theoretical physicists ?
Until we interpret the physical meaning of the DIGITS, with which we calculate in our minds (NOT the electrons of the BITs in the chips we manufacture), all the phenomena we describe with mathematical formulae would remain deceptive.
Remember, none of the particles (except THE PHOTON) in the Standard Model of Particles has any direct relevance whatsoever to our perceptions, while there are 5 more senses (including BREATHING as the common sense ~ common to all 3 entities: PLANTS, ANIMALS and HUMANS) unrepresented by any unique particle.
Neither are the feelings of needs (hunger, fear, pain,...) and satisfaction particle physically interpreted.
Nature can't be so stupid to provide us 6 senses and feelings, if all the rest can be derived as functions of just one sense perception: SIGHT.
This is the reason why human race in its entire history, from antiquity to present day, from Thales of Miletus to Stephen Hawking (and still continuing), is yet to derive the mathematical model for the mechanism of even a single natural phenomenon that could PREDICT accurately when that phenomenon may harm life function, let alone PREVENT such ~ which SHOULD, in fact, be the sole purpose cum criterion of proof af all knowledge.
Hoffman’s ideas are quite ingenious but I detect a few problems: 1) if his argument is an evolutionary one, such that evolution wouldn’t select for veridical perception of reality we have the problem that the only reason we believe that evolution happened is by observing it in the world, and that’s not, in his theory, a valid inference since our consciousness doesn’t give us access to the truth of “physical” reality. The grounding for his argument argument seems compromised. If evolution happened, we couldn’t know it, because evolution is selecting against direct reality perception! 2) Hoffman just completely mischaracterizes IIT in regards to its ability to describe why the quality of our experiences have the character they do as opposed to some other character. Describing how the shapes of integrated information delineate the phenomenological character of the experiences associated with them is a central part of the theory, though very complicated. Maybe he thinks the theory fails at this effort, but it’s, in any event, not something IIT ignores. Far from it.
A few problems? I detect only problems.
I wish DH gave us something new I feel I could name every point he makes and has made for past 9 years in support of his theory Every podcast feel like listening to the same song sung in the same way Very believable but limited
I am convinced of simulation cos it just feels like one
I absolutely admire his vision, thinking, and effort in building a theory of consciousness with mathematics, his insight in spacetime which is doomed, and his effort must have been against the orthodox of physics. However, he could have gone further to state as the result of spacetime is doomed there's no physics. His name will certainly be on history books of consciousness, science, humanity and so on as he is the first who tried to build maths on consciousness. I would like to give him all best wishes but that is against my knowledge and I would be hypocritical as I know he is certainly on the wrong path as that mathematics is string theory and he has oversimplified consciousness.
I enjoyed reading this comment. Thanks for watching and engaging!
10^-33 33 33 33 33 3️⃣3️⃣🥉🥉
Dr. Hoffman. I am an admirer of you and your work, but could you please rethink your use of the word “doomed” regarding time and space? Consider substituting the concept “levels of abstraction.” For most scientific questions and engineering problems working with three dimensions of space and one of time is the correct level of abstraction. Just because there might be a deeper level does not mean that spacetime is “doomed.” This language is confusing, misleading, and ultimately undermines your credibility. The principles of biology are not “doomed” because at a deeper level of abstraction all biology is a function of hadrons and bosons. Ridiculous.
Chill. You know what he means.
It would be better to say it is not fundamental rather than doomed.
Seconded. It’s an odd word choice / feels out of place in terms of objective scientific verbage, and undermines the validity in the rest of his argument. The first few times I heard him say it I had the same thought.
It’s standard.
Lol...10^-33 cm isn't that small, he says. I wish he would embrace complexity as a source of emergence. Scale matters and explains his issues.
oh god not Hoffman again
@hiker-uy1bi Yeah the circuit just keeps going around, like a dog chasing its tail. They must be having fun, but they sure aren't getting anywhere
hoffman comes off as confused, enraptured by nonsense. :(
Interesting. Say more
Not all, his repeating the same model of consciouness, consciouness stuides as repeated through out history, specfically from the Wisdom of sages, mystics and saints from both and east and west, as as far back 3000 years in the east! Those stuck in physcalist paradigm are no different then those stuck in religious dogma, stuck in a box in a corner of space-time ignoring all the evidence that may sink their beliefs, cherry picking what keeps them in their little space. Ignorance on a massive scale.
Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t mean he’s the confused one.
@@RRR1-z9c I understand it. Spacetime isn’t real bc the Planck length isn’t the smallest scale & contemporary physics breaks down. That’s why spacetime is a headset we wear.
That is confused thinking on Hoffman’s part. I understand it, & it is confused.