Charisma is used by the Bladelock for thematic and balance reasons. The warlock is designed to be high risk high reward, evident by their explodey nature. The charisma modifier is a reward for that play style, making them less dependent on ability scores like dexterity and strength, but receiving fewer resources overall. Thematically, it represents their patron’s power flowing through them. Charisma modifier for Bladelocks is a great design choice. It does not need to be removed.
I feel like everyone forgets that disguise self doesn't change your voice. Master of the myriad forms is incredibly useful if, say, you want to disguise as the opposite sex or a different species. I'd still recommend swapping mask of many faces for master of myriad forms if you don't need to be disguised in combat, or concentrate on spells out of combat. Strip naked and make a disguise that looks like it's wearing clothes plastic man style and it's got it's pros and cons from it's competition depends on your general spell choice and why you wanted the spells in the first place. At least assuming invocation swapping comes back. Alter self may not be worth the spell slot, but that doesn't mean alter self at will is worse than disguise self at will in all ways they differ
I think pact of the blade is in an absurdly tough balancing position. To be viable it needs to outpace eldritch blast which is functionally a d10 weapon, with massive range, with a 3rd attack at level 11, that can functionally get the push and slow masteries, that uses your cha making you less multi stat dependant, that easily keeps you at a safe range instead of in melee. 2014 blade lock needs to deal with higher invocation cost (which this still does), and lower damage, and being wildly mad needing dex, con, cha, and for most weapons STR. While the current version does need to be tuned down that balance needs to be very careful in order to keep it stronger than just spamming eldritch blast. Personally I'd like to see them only get 1weapon mastery per long rest (keep bonus action weapon swapping you just don't get all the masteries), life drinker should be moved somewhere into t3-4 (maybe level 17?), And I'd probably replace their 3rd attack with a bonus action attack tied to the attack action.
@@the_twig131 playtest bladelock as a whole has less reliance and incentives to pick up martial feats because they are all half feats for STR and dex when they are trying to bump cha. On top of that I'm actually unsure if having proficiency in your pact weapon counts for the prerequisite of needing proficiency in a martial weapon for getting those weapon feats since it isn't a "normal" proficiency and is instead a weird temporary one.
In the gray text for Invocations it mentions that if an Invocation isn't found here it is still available to use it is just unchanged and thus doesn't need to be listed, so you do still have stuff like gift of the ever living ones among others
i LOVE the idea of warlock having a spell slot progression like the summoner and magus! ive never played pathfinder 2e but seeing that spell slot progression really made my eyes light up! I hope wizards does this for warlock too!
[Pact of Everything]: | {Character Level 1} . Start as a Warlock at lvl 1. | . Select as Invocation either: "Pact of the Tome" or "Pact of the Blade". | . Take "Eldritch Adept" as your first level feat. Select either "Pact of the Blade" or "Pact of the Tome". | -> The order only matters if you multiclass, since only the Invocation from the Feat can be changed when taking a level in other clases. |
{Character Level 2}: | . Select as Invocations: "Pact of the Chain" & "Pact of the Talisman" |
{Character Level 3} | (Optional: Genie Patron): | . Make the Genie Vessel a Ring, then add it to the Necklace that is your Talisman [ or ask your DM to let them both be the same magical item: a collar or bracelet ]; then summon your familiar & make them wear it. | {Character Level 4}: . Take a 4 level feat [Sugestion: +1 CHA with Ritual Caster (OneDnD)]. | {Character Level 5}: | (Optional: Genie Patron) | . Select as Invocations "One with Shadows" & "Gaze of Two Minds". (OneDnD-UA7) | -> As a full round action, make your Familiar Invisible while also going inside the Genie Vessel, using their senses to guide them telepathically [requires DM approval (posibly "lvl 2 Warlock custom feat" or Invocation)].
4:28 Warlocks are meant to have less spell slots than full casters. Eldritch Blast and invocations are meant to make up for those slots, which I think is good because it distinguishes them from full casters. I don't think I'd want them to have full spell slot capacity, even accounting for 2 rests per day. Give me more interesting at-will stuff! Otherwise, I can't help but agree with pretty much everything here. Pact of the Blade nerf aside, Warlock is looking really interesting for One D&D. My first ever D&D character was a Warlock, and it was a love/hate relationship, mostly because it was without Tasha's/Xanathar's, I built it horribly at first, and our party was completely allergic to short rests. This new Warlock is shaping up to be a class I'd be excited to try again!
I wouldn't be opposed to more toolbox stuff instead of additional slots, yeah. I think that one of those things would need to be a combat concentration though. Not necessarily a premier option, but a decent one. One of the homebrew rules I've been playing with for a while actually is that Thief of Five Fates is at will Bane. I talked a lot about Bane in this video, and it's a really strong option to fall back on, even at high levels.
Once they nerf the Pact of the Blade I think this version of the Warlock is going to be a ton of fun to play. My only complaint (aside from the obvious) is that the Celestial feels really dated. The other subclasses have been reenvisioned with clean designs and internal synergy, Celestial just kinda gives you a few features and calls it a day.
When you talk about Lessons of the First Ones, there's a really important part you're leaving out. It doesn't just apply to first level feats, it's any feat without a prerequisite, which includes a wide array of feats from previous books. Fey Touched, Shadow Touched, and Gift of the Gem dragon are the big ones I noticed. They're all half feats that increase Charisma and have no prerequisites, letting you max your Charisma at level 3 and gain some really good side features
I think JC once said any feat with a +1 to an ability score has a prereq level 4. Even still, many dms won't allow legacy content, and we also tend to assume legacy content will be updated eventually if dnd one does well
@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar yeah for sure, I 100% agree. But JC saying something in an interview isn't a rule, and they keep touting backwards compatability, so they need to be designing with that in mind. They could have easily said "feats with the 1st level tag, except for fighting style feats" and it would have accomplished what they're trying to do. And some things haven't been updated. The Mobile feat for example. It was "replaced" by the speedster feat, but since this is backwards compatible with 5.14 phb, mobile is still a valid feat to take
We haven't really seen updated feats since Expert Classes, which was about a year ago. I think it's highly likely that their thoughts on these have changed a lot, although I expect them to stick with no half feats which don't have a prerequisite.
I love the short rest caster dynamic, even though it can be awkward to accommodate, and the thought of not having that anymore completely turned me off to play test 5 warlock personally
07:30 You can make *ANY* cantrip in the game (from _ANY_ class) a _Warlock Cantrip_ using Pact of the Tome. | -> The only requisite is not having them "already prepared" (so you can not do this by reading a cantrip in a scroll), when finishing a short/long rest. [Note]: A 6th level Character (Wizard 5 + Warlock 1) with 1st_lvl Feat "Eldritch Adept" (Pact of The Tome) can use the Wizard feature "Memorize Spell" 1 minute before starting the long or short rest needed to "take" a level in Warlock [consult DM] to "un-prepare" a wizard cantrip so they can select it for both "Pact of the Tome" & "Agonizing Blast". | [Sugestion]: As a custom Invocation that requires both "Pact of the Tome" & "Agonizing Blast", as well as a prepared cantrip NOT present on the base Warlock spell list (example: from a warlock subclass at lvl 3, 1st level feat, species boon, etc): _"You always know this cantrp, it is always prepared. It is also a warlock cantrip for you & benefits from it as well as from being in other spellcasting lists. It does not count for any limitations in the number of cantrips you can know or prepare."_ -> This custom_invocation is not repeteable, but it "defaults" back as a copy of the Invocation "Lesson of the First Ones" whenever either invocation prerequisites are not met {you still retain the custom cantrip, but can no be prepared or casted until having the prerequisites again & another Invocation available].
For my group we use Pact Points. Take your current Spell Slot Level x Number of Spell slots and thats your points. So a 5th level warlock has 2 spell slots at 3rd level and so has 6 Points. You spend a point per level you want to cast at allowing you to turn down the power of your spells in exchange for more spells to cast. You can still treat the points like Pact slots so with 6 points cast 2 3rd level spells like a normal warlock, or cast 1 2nd, 1 3rd, and 1 1st. Gaining half your points on a short rest and all points on a long rest. Myself and my players have been doing this for a year and its worked well so far, no longer do we cast spells like Mage armour or Shield above 1st level wasting a spell slot.
I'm generally not fond of spell points in D&D specifically, because the system really isn't built for it. I think that a proper spell point system should have spells unlocked at the same level which have different costs based on their power. This isn't a perfect example, but it's likely one that you're aware of. In Skyrim both Ebonyflesh and Paralyse are Expert Alteration spells, but obviously Paralyse is a lot stronger. To show this, Paralyse costs about 100 magicka more, even though they're the same level of spell.
@@the_twig131 yes absolutely not all spells are made equal so spell points like you suggested could work like that and be effective, however it won’t happen because who wants to spend their time changing every spell slot for a cost of points. Though my point system is trying to resolve an issue me and my players have with pact magic rather than spell casting in general. Take a spell like shield for example with pact magic using a 5th level slot is kinda wasteful because it cannot be upcast. With my groups points system we can turn down the power to cast spells at lower levels, this will reduce the power of the next spells we cast but we get more spells to cast and don’t waste slots on spells that can’t take advantage of upcasting. It also stops players from not using their spells because they are saving their high level slots for when it matters most.
The problem with no charisma sadness on pact of the blade is warlocks already excel at zero resource damage, and if you aren't using your charisma, there's a good chance that your decision to use 3 times as many invocations on your zero resource damage output and also confining you to melee is just going to make your DPR go down compared to eldritch blast and agonizing blast, which also still works in melee with the help of warcaster. This isn't a problem for paladin, because paladin doesn't have an alternative zero resource output other than weapons, almost all of their damage is reliant on hitting weapons even if they use spell slots. And it isn't a problem with blade singer, because due to their unique multi attack and the lack of competition with eldritch blast, the zero resource output of bladesinger always go up. But if pact of the blade didn't have charisma Why would you choose it over eldritch blast? You can even get eldritch pull, push, or lance of lethargy to compensate for your lack of mastery and you'd still have spent less invocations on it than a typical blade lock would. If the blade lock also relied on more ability scores to do less damage, then bladelock would only be there for the flavor of it
I think the reasoning for cha blade pact and the major blade pact buffs is because of the complaint that "there's no reason to go (MAD and riskier) blade pact if it's objectively worse than just focusing on (SAD and Ranged) EB."
I will say, the reason Bladelocks need charisma weapons isn't "because Hexblade did it." Actually, Hexblade did it because the Bladelock was a terrible option otherwise. The issue is Eldritch Blast. With scaling number of attacks and agonizing blast, Eldritch blast is a ranged options comparable to a fighter with a bow easily. And, since it is a spell and works off charisma, buffing your at-will attack also buffs your spells and skills. It synergizes. Meanwhile, like Bards and Paladins, Bladelocks in 2014 sans Hexblade had to invest in dexterity (or strength if you were crazy) to have their weapons be effective, which lowered their actual spellcasting abilities. And they did less damage than Eldritch Blast, which, unlike the Bard and Paladin was RIGHT THERE to take. Eventually leading Bladelocks to feeling like their entire concept was a joke. Especially when Tomelock took Shillelagh and had an equivalent melee option AND Eldritch Blast, but both were based on Charisma. Now, this isn't to say I don't think the current version is overtuned. It is. Three attacks is too much, and that third attack should probably just be turned into a 1/turn flat bonus or something. But going back to dex weapons on a bladelock will kill it again. Because then there is no point in a bladelock existing. Tome does its job better, cheaper, and without weakening the fullcasters spellcasting.
Hex returning to the 2014 version is fine, Eldritch Blast not being tied to Warlock levels is great, and Pact of the Blade is too good but I don't wish for it to be nerfed into the ground. Additionally, as an aside Eldritch Spear can be really good especially if you're playing a extremely long range blaster/mostly summoner Genielock build (shout to Bilbron Bafflestone). I do agree with most of your other suggestions/observations. Take care.
While I agree that this pact of the blade is too powerful compared to other martial classes it actually might be a decent benchmark for martial classes as the warlock is still a Spellcaster and shouldn't be better that the fighter etc at what they do so maybe they just need to up the game for all the martial classes. Anyway if the other classes stay as they are then yes this is too good
Bladelock is mostly fine, but only when you’re near the high end - it’s too frontloaded here. Make it take time to swap weapons (leave the bonus action to summon, though), move the Mastery to Thirsting Blade, move the damage type selection to Lifedrinker, and move the second extra attack back several levels, and it keeps (pretty much) on pace with EB+AB, which should be the baseline they need to hit, otherwise it’s a trap choice (At present, it significantly outpaces EB+AB between 9 and 17)
Change to Warlock spell slot progression: 1 spell slot at level 1 2 spell slot at level 2 3 spell slot at level 5 4 spell slot at level 9 5 spell slot at level 13 6 spell slot at level 17 Additionally, you only get half of your spell slot (rounding down) back on a short rest This is how I think they should change it
On the Pact of the Tome, the wording is a bit poor but it does imply you can't just generate free spell slots beyond the one given. The slot is tied to your tome, and works as normal however if you expend it, you can't just resummon your tome on a short rest to refresh the slot. Resummoning on a long rest also doesn't work as the slot disappears when the old tome is replaced. Also I noticed you don't seem as opposed to the Warlock's huge buff in terms of spells known (29 by default, 31 from just tome pact) as you did with Sorcerer. Is it cause their list caps out at 5th level?
@@the_twig131 Fair enough, I play AM Sorc so I highly value the benefits of spell switching and psionic Sorcery, but could definitely see the spell switching go away with some tweaks. Maybe copying from the GOOlock and letting you psionic cast enchantment and divination spells from your list on top of those in your expanded list (which is technically stronger than the Warlock feature but they also don't pay for it). I am of the mind that not all Sorc subclasses need an extra list (or at least one as big) as long as the features are solid but it does feel odd not to pick up spells like Call Lightning as a Storm Sorc or even Dragon's Breath as a Draconic.
Very upset about gaze of two minds range the range isn’t large enough you can use it for infiltration and espionage. It was so fun and sure there was cheese but who wants to play where u simply do not get to roleplay. In practice it was just a great way to support infiltration. And fun in combat. Give us at least 120 feet possibly 300
60 ft. is probably enough to scout a room or two ahead at least. I kind of feel like they should just make it into a Chainlock invocation. You can already see through the eyes of your familiar and cast touch spells if you're within 100 ft, and the old Voice of the Chain allowed you to extend the sense sharing to infinite. Why not just bring that back instead of Gaze of Two Minds, and allow you to have infinite sense sharing, and any spell within 100 ft.?
Warlock would need to stop having pact slots matching the max level slot of regular casters if they got more slots, especially at levels where other casters only have one of them like mid to late tier 2 & teir 3
@@the_twig131 The PT5 warlock was something I liked a lot but not *quite* my point, I was talking about your give more slots to pact example. If wotc's not willing to go back in that direction it's probably better making 2014 style pact slots not an abomination. If you look at pact slot level progression every time a wiz/clr/sorc/dru gets access to a new slot level in tier1 &2 the warlock is upgrading their pact slots to it at the same level. That holds till level 11 when warlock upgrades slot level again starts gets identical slot gains from arcanum & keeps gaining slot numbers . The SR pact magic concept is they get fewer slots but don't have access to as many lower level slots, but regular casters freeze their lower level slot gains at level 9 until they hit level 18. Giving warlock more slots would violate the "but fewer lower level slots" part. "*If* giving warlock more slots with SR pact slots is justified they should not be matching their pact slot levels to regular casters & maybe be behind at least slot level until the regular casters freeze at 9 or 11 when warlock could gain an extra slot or two while falling behind another slot or two. A spitball set of numbers using spell points might be something like at 5th when sorc has 4/3/2 a warlock could go from 2x3s to 3x2SR slots(10sp worth) ->2x2s 2x1s b/c there's not much room to finesse the numbers yet. Maybe they upgrade to some combo of 3s &2s SR slots at 7th when the regular caster caps out on 3s & gets a single 4th . Things get complicated jumping that pattern to 4s & 3s because with 5th level slots the progression changes for regular casters again not capping out until 18th & the lower level slots are pretty much frozen since level 9 or 10. Starting at level 11 the warlock is currently getting an arcanum slot every time a regular caster gets a slot above 5th & still has gains with AREB along with other invocations like the bladelock & so on & it leaves no reason to keep bumping pact slot levels or numbers
Giving pack of the blade a level 3 requirement, removing the 3rd attack from thirsting blade, and moving lifedrinker back to 11th level while buffing its damage slightly should fix most of the pact of the blade balance issues while keeping the concept/fun in tact
I wouldn't say that magical cunning is "effectively one long rest spell slot" at all, The limitations of only really being able to use it if you are out of spell slots and don't take a short rest means that you just don't have the opportunity to use it a lot of the time. Especially since a warlock with no spell slots isn't unreasonable to ask for a short rest if there's even the slightest ability to stand around and do nothing. If a warlock is in a day that has 1 fight with no short rests, or 2 fights with 1, they still only have 2 or 4 spell slots. Which hurts a lot since even 6 spell slots still feels pressed and the DMG recommends 2 short rests and encounter design that, while says 5-8 fights, can be done in 3 or 4.
Haven’t watched the vid yet but fundamentally disagree with the title. It’s built on the false assumptions that Bladepact melee is as good as warlock range options and that Spellcasting does not depreciate the value of melee To the first, melee is fundamentally worse than range since it incurs significantly more risk for sometimes comparable reward. So if your party can effectively engineer preferable terrain for encounters, faces flying foes often, range (ie EB and spell casting) are better paths to build along. Blade requires more invocation investment and incurs greater risk, yes even with a bow is my contention (though to a much decreased degree). Warlocks have 9 levels of spells. There’s a significant chance they will spend at least round 1 of any combat encounter casting a spell requiring their action. This depreciates the value of the melee viability by, typically, 20-33%. Bladelocks are, by nature of the class, forced to make invocation choices that deny them fun/versatile options. Feat choices that enhance a particular weapon narrow the variety of weapons their versatile pact blade can bring to the table, a weakness shared by every martial except Fighter. The damage difference capable by a fully optimized bladelock vs fully optimized Fighter is wholly dependent on a spell the Fighter’s level 6 feat or background can grant access to as an EK (or any fighter 1 or more times a day) and damage spikes from spells like Fireball which preclude the character from using their melee options. If Barabarians and Rangers are lagging in this regard (and Berzerker’s are not), I’d recommend looking to improve those classes rather than nipping at the warlock. Note: if I have a bias, it’s rooted in the narrative consequence of warlock stories (Patrons don’t offer heavens) and if you aren’t using your PCs Patron as the occasional stick, then I think you’re the partially responsible for this perception of the class at this time. Warlock should be “rock band on tour” with an acceptance and understanding that sooner or later the party is over.
Blade pact with universally considered the worst warlock before hex blade. Basically every thread about bladelocks were mostly about how they were bad gishes, and Eldritch Blasters were explicitly better. Bards are full casters, and Paladins Heavily Armored Martials. But I do agree that Blade is overtuned. I think an invocation for Mastery and delaying the third attack to 15 is better, as their damage starts falling off then but is still respectable at 11
The third attack should be a different invocation (maybe lv 15+), lifedrinker should have a limit of how many hit dice you can use to heal yourself (I've used it and is kind of OP even at lv 10) and the cha based attacks should be a 5+ warlock level with pact of the blade. Thats all, with those changes I think Warlock would be a strong pick without been broken.
So does the level 6 and 14 level features for fey expend a use of your charisma mod misty step or are they meant to give a free casting every time they are used?
I really like the GOO Warlock 6-14, but I think both features at 3 (outside the spells which are really good) are meh Psychic Spells just isn't that impactful because what spells am I using to deal damage? Eldritch Blast? Force is more reliable, Shillelagh? Magical Bludgeoning. Dissonant Whispers/Phantasmal Force? Already Psychic Awakened Mind is cool and I cannot repeat this enough...very flavorful for the subclass...but I don't know if communicating with one creature compares to the other level 3 features such as Healing Light, Dark One's Blessing or Steps of the Fey
Good Buneary Teacher! Much as I've sworn off WotC after what's happened, I hope Good Buneary Teacher can succeed enough to still be making videos even after there's no D&D left to discuss.
Pact boon have no requirement and can be picked up by any spellcaster that takes Eldritch Adept feat from tasha's! This makes no sence to me! I think that the design team havn't thought of backwards compatible feats! and you can also chose witch pact boon you want! as a non warlock!?!? No need for multiclassing??? If I'm a paladin or a variant human bard I would definetly want to pick the feat to get this new Pact of the Blade, because switching between weapon mastery as a bonus action is great! and the paladin/bard can still use strength/dexterity to attack! Also a warlock can have both pact of the blade and tome on the same character now! I think there are lots of other mistakes in this playtest for the base Warlock! Great vid Twig!
I think that if they're going to do this with pacts, and Eldritch Adept is still going to exist, the pacts should probably have a prerequisite of 1st level Warlock. That would exclude them from Eldritch Adept.
Yeah no Blade Pact is not fine, especially as Eldritch Adept is going to still be a valid choice via back compatibility. It’s the most obvious feat to grab on any melee or ranged charisma build. Frankly if the 3rd attack had a invocation tax at 15 I’d almost be fine with it but martials need some kinda niche.
Scariest thing about pact of the blade is that paladins/bards can pick it up by simply taking the "eldrich Adept" feat without even multiclassing. I'm actually 100% okay with your idea of pact of the blade not giving CHA attacks.
A 1 level dip is often 'cheaper' than a feat, when it comes to making powerful builds. So I wouldn't worry too much about that part. But it is too strong regardless.
Honestly I'm tired of having to consider all posible multiclass implications when thinking about balancing classes. Maybe we should just accept that multiclassing is broken and call it a day.
@@josequiles7430 There are VERY few of them - honestly mostly just warlock related. Simply make eldrich blast scale with warlock level, and make pact of the blade scale require 3 levels of warlock and all multiclassing shenanigans are gone.
@@JJV7243 it's not just warlock tho. For example, they made action surge not work with spells to prevent every spell caster talking two levels in Fighter, only to end up hurting the Eldritch Knight. And it didn't even amount to much because they'll still take at least one level for the armor proficiencies
@@josequiles7430 The new eldrich knight can cast spells by using their attack action's attacks in the new playtest, in fact they're stronger than ever. Action surge not working on spells is totally fine in my book too!
In what world isn't your Pact of the Blade the biggest trap option in the game? Why even pick it if it doesn't provide... literally anything apart from unlocking Thirsting blade? If Eldritch Blast with Spellsniper deals VASTLY more damage than Pact of the Blade - why bother even having it in the game? lol UA7 Blade FINALLY makes mono-Blade worthwhile and still only gets even with EB at level 17 instead of being weaker. Maybe tie Smite to BA, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's not competitive with EB.
Your opinion is wrong about Pact of the Balde then. Just do some math... why would you EVER pick Blade, when EB spam is easier, requires a single invocation and deals flat out more damage. lol Intraclass balance makes it impossible for Blade to work without a 3rd attack, unless you literally put no-mod EB damage once per turn on their attacks. Also Barb and Fighter EASILY outdamage warlock, unless you have shroud active, and even that might not be the case if you factor in maneuvers and action surge. As to why warlock should have CHA attack? Because you also needs DEX, while Paladin can just forego it. You are still MAD despite having CHA attacks. Remember the 13 STR you now need to invest to be able to use 2h weapons on top also? And remember that you as low AC class have to frontline and have concentration checks? So better get that CON up - ah yeah, no saving throw prof for that either. Too bad...
I _have_ done some math. Pact of the Blade with Shroud will be doing around 2.5x as much damage as Eldritch Blast from levels 9 to 16, and 60% more damage from level 17 up (assuming you use Foresight). EB is easier and requires fewer invocations, but the new PB blows it out of the water in terms of damage potential. If you don't want to have to buy up Str for a heavy weapon, use a rapier. With Vex, you'll be on par with a greatsword up til level 16. The greatsword benefits from Foresight at level 17, though, while the rapier doesn't, so you may want to change things up after that point. Level 17 is also the point where Eldritch Blast gets really good, too, so there are other options. Champion does outdamage the warlock, assuming Hex instead of Shroud (Shroud is on par with the Champion), but the Hex/Blade warlock (not even Shroud) beats the Wild Heart/World Tree barbarian from level 11 on. Barbarian needs damage boosts from its subclass (so Berserker or Zealot) to pull ahead. The small bits of utility the other subclasses give would just compare to warlock's spells plus subclasses of its own.
For spell progression, I like the idea of giving them halfcast or spell slots, and a new Pact magic feature at 3rd level that lets them upcast a limited number of spells to standard caster progression when they spend a spell slot. I also like setting up mystic arcana, again at level three, and they can cast one spell with standard spell level progression, and they can change it when they level up. That way it levels three and five. They can have one second level than third level spell, respectively. Then give them another MA at 7th level so they can have one third level, and one fourth level spell slot. They got a third arcanum slot at 11th, since they have halfcaster spell slots up to third level spells, and three mystic arcanum for a fourth, fifth and sixth level spell slot. Then you get your fourth arcanum slot at 15th level. Every time you gain spells known at a higher level when you get to levels. 5. 9. 13 and 17, you can advance your mystic arcanum spell, but you don't necessarily have to.
I actually think with some small nerfs Pact of the Blade Warlock will be balanced. Melee gishes like Bladesinger do not scale well into higher levels where they are better off becoming a backliner due to poor bulk and worse melee options than ranged. Bladelock can be balanced PROVIDED the following issues are fixed: - Pact of the Blade Warlock should not be able to multiclass with Paladin for the Armor Proficiency. A good solution to this is making it so that Pact of the Blade features only work if you are unarmored. - Pact of the Blade is less effective when used with a ranged weapon. In fact, it's a bit strange that it boosts ranged weapons at all with a name like "Pact of the BLADE". I won't say it's useless with ranged weapons, but time and time again 5e has shown that ranged combat has simply so many advantages over melee that unless it is nerfed pretty hard for ranged weapons this will not be balanced. With these changes, the only method Bladelocks will have for improving their survivability will be support from team mates (team work is good!) and Armor of Agathys/Shield/Any other defensive spells they can get from Multiclassing. (Bladelocks aren't even good users of Shield unless they multiclass with Sorcerer since it uses their precious Pact slots and doesn't upcast)
One important thing about the blade pact is that the new heavy property means you need at least a 13 in str or dex depending if it’s melee or ranged.
Eldritch spear is actually really good in campaigns with ship to ship combat. Spelljammer, Pirate, etc.
Charisma is used by the Bladelock for thematic and balance reasons.
The warlock is designed to be high risk high reward, evident by their explodey nature. The charisma modifier is a reward for that play style, making them less dependent on ability scores like dexterity and strength, but receiving fewer resources overall.
Thematically, it represents their patron’s power flowing through them.
Charisma modifier for Bladelocks is a great design choice. It does not need to be removed.
I feel like everyone forgets that disguise self doesn't change your voice. Master of the myriad forms is incredibly useful if, say, you want to disguise as the opposite sex or a different species. I'd still recommend swapping mask of many faces for master of myriad forms if you don't need to be disguised in combat, or concentrate on spells out of combat. Strip naked and make a disguise that looks like it's wearing clothes plastic man style and it's got it's pros and cons from it's competition depends on your general spell choice and why you wanted the spells in the first place. At least assuming invocation swapping comes back.
Alter self may not be worth the spell slot, but that doesn't mean alter self at will is worse than disguise self at will in all ways they differ
I think pact of the blade is in an absurdly tough balancing position. To be viable it needs to outpace eldritch blast which is functionally a d10 weapon, with massive range, with a 3rd attack at level 11, that can functionally get the push and slow masteries, that uses your cha making you less multi stat dependant, that easily keeps you at a safe range instead of in melee.
2014 blade lock needs to deal with higher invocation cost (which this still does), and lower damage, and being wildly mad needing dex, con, cha, and for most weapons STR.
While the current version does need to be tuned down that balance needs to be very careful in order to keep it stronger than just spamming eldritch blast.
Personally I'd like to see them only get 1weapon mastery per long rest (keep bonus action weapon swapping you just don't get all the masteries), life drinker should be moved somewhere into t3-4 (maybe level 17?), And I'd probably replace their 3rd attack with a bonus action attack tied to the attack action.
I like the BA attack at 11. That's actually fine. Puts less reliance on PAM as well.
@@the_twig131 playtest bladelock as a whole has less reliance and incentives to pick up martial feats because they are all half feats for STR and dex when they are trying to bump cha. On top of that I'm actually unsure if having proficiency in your pact weapon counts for the prerequisite of needing proficiency in a martial weapon for getting those weapon feats since it isn't a "normal" proficiency and is instead a weird temporary one.
In the gray text for Invocations it mentions that if an Invocation isn't found here it is still available to use it is just unchanged and thus doesn't need to be listed, so you do still have stuff like gift of the ever living ones among others
Where does it say this? I'm looking at the playtest right now and I don't see it mention at all that you can use missing invocations
i LOVE the idea of warlock having a spell slot progression like the summoner and magus! ive never played pathfinder 2e but seeing that spell slot progression really made my eyes light up! I hope wizards does this for warlock too!
Yeah, it's a really cool idea. I was super impressed when I first saw that.
[Pact of Everything]: | {Character Level 1}
. Start as a Warlock at lvl 1. |
. Select as Invocation either: "Pact of the Tome" or "Pact of the Blade". |
. Take "Eldritch Adept" as your first level feat. Select either "Pact of the Blade" or "Pact of the Tome". |
-> The order only matters if you multiclass, since only the Invocation from the Feat can be changed when taking a level in other clases. |
{Character Level 2}: |
. Select as Invocations: "Pact of the Chain" & "Pact of the Talisman" |
{Character Level 3} |
(Optional: Genie Patron): |
. Make the Genie Vessel a Ring, then add it to the Necklace that is your Talisman [ or ask your DM to let them both be the same magical item: a collar or bracelet ]; then summon your familiar & make them wear it. |
{Character Level 4}:
. Take a 4 level feat [Sugestion: +1 CHA with Ritual Caster (OneDnD)]. |
{Character Level 5}: |
(Optional: Genie Patron) |
. Select as Invocations "One with Shadows" & "Gaze of Two Minds". (OneDnD-UA7) |
-> As a full round action, make your Familiar Invisible while also going inside the Genie Vessel, using their senses to guide them telepathically [requires DM approval (posibly "lvl 2 Warlock custom feat" or Invocation)].
4:28 Warlocks are meant to have less spell slots than full casters. Eldritch Blast and invocations are meant to make up for those slots, which I think is good because it distinguishes them from full casters. I don't think I'd want them to have full spell slot capacity, even accounting for 2 rests per day. Give me more interesting at-will stuff!
Otherwise, I can't help but agree with pretty much everything here. Pact of the Blade nerf aside, Warlock is looking really interesting for One D&D. My first ever D&D character was a Warlock, and it was a love/hate relationship, mostly because it was without Tasha's/Xanathar's, I built it horribly at first, and our party was completely allergic to short rests. This new Warlock is shaping up to be a class I'd be excited to try again!
I wouldn't be opposed to more toolbox stuff instead of additional slots, yeah. I think that one of those things would need to be a combat concentration though. Not necessarily a premier option, but a decent one. One of the homebrew rules I've been playing with for a while actually is that Thief of Five Fates is at will Bane. I talked a lot about Bane in this video, and it's a really strong option to fall back on, even at high levels.
I simply wish to have some extra low level spell slots to actually use some of the utility spells that sit there gathering dust.
(This is what playtest 5 did.)
Once they nerf the Pact of the Blade I think this version of the Warlock is going to be a ton of fun to play. My only complaint (aside from the obvious) is that the Celestial feels really dated. The other subclasses have been reenvisioned with clean designs and internal synergy, Celestial just kinda gives you a few features and calls it a day.
Yeah, Celestial is really disappointing. I think Healing Light is great, but the rest of the sub just doesn't have anything interesting.
When you talk about Lessons of the First Ones, there's a really important part you're leaving out. It doesn't just apply to first level feats, it's any feat without a prerequisite, which includes a wide array of feats from previous books. Fey Touched, Shadow Touched, and Gift of the Gem dragon are the big ones I noticed. They're all half feats that increase Charisma and have no prerequisites, letting you max your Charisma at level 3 and gain some really good side features
I think JC once said any feat with a +1 to an ability score has a prereq level 4.
Even still, many dms won't allow legacy content, and we also tend to assume legacy content will be updated eventually if dnd one does well
Didn't ASI become a feat? Wouldn't Lessons of the Old ones let you take that multiple times as well? Getting insane stats
@DemonicEngineer ASI has a prerequisite of 4th level so it's not eligible
@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar yeah for sure, I 100% agree. But JC saying something in an interview isn't a rule, and they keep touting backwards compatability, so they need to be designing with that in mind. They could have easily said "feats with the 1st level tag, except for fighting style feats" and it would have accomplished what they're trying to do. And some things haven't been updated. The Mobile feat for example. It was "replaced" by the speedster feat, but since this is backwards compatible with 5.14 phb, mobile is still a valid feat to take
We haven't really seen updated feats since Expert Classes, which was about a year ago. I think it's highly likely that their thoughts on these have changed a lot, although I expect them to stick with no half feats which don't have a prerequisite.
I love the short rest caster dynamic, even though it can be awkward to accommodate, and the thought of not having that anymore completely turned me off to play test 5 warlock personally
07:30 You can make *ANY* cantrip in the game (from _ANY_ class) a _Warlock Cantrip_ using Pact of the Tome. |
-> The only requisite is not having them "already prepared" (so you can not do this by reading a cantrip in a scroll), when finishing a short/long rest.
[Note]: A 6th level Character (Wizard 5 + Warlock 1) with 1st_lvl Feat "Eldritch Adept" (Pact of The Tome) can use the Wizard feature "Memorize Spell" 1 minute before starting the long or short rest needed to "take" a level in Warlock [consult DM] to "un-prepare" a wizard cantrip so they can select it for both "Pact of the Tome" & "Agonizing Blast". |
[Sugestion]: As a custom Invocation that requires both "Pact of the Tome" & "Agonizing Blast", as well as a prepared cantrip NOT present on the base Warlock spell list (example: from a warlock subclass at lvl 3, 1st level feat, species boon, etc): _"You always know this cantrp, it is always prepared. It is also a warlock cantrip for you & benefits from it as well as from being in other spellcasting lists. It does not count for any limitations in the number of cantrips you can know or prepare."_
-> This custom_invocation is not repeteable, but it "defaults" back as a copy of the Invocation "Lesson of the First Ones" whenever either invocation prerequisites are not met {you still retain the custom cantrip, but can no be prepared or casted until having the prerequisites again & another Invocation available].
For my group we use Pact Points. Take your current Spell Slot Level x Number of Spell slots and thats your points. So a 5th level warlock has 2 spell slots at 3rd level and so has 6 Points.
You spend a point per level you want to cast at allowing you to turn down the power of your spells in exchange for more spells to cast. You can still treat the points like Pact slots so with 6 points cast 2 3rd level spells like a normal warlock, or cast 1 2nd, 1 3rd, and 1 1st. Gaining half your points on a short rest and all points on a long rest. Myself and my players have been doing this for a year and its worked well so far, no longer do we cast spells like Mage armour or Shield above 1st level wasting a spell slot.
I'm generally not fond of spell points in D&D specifically, because the system really isn't built for it. I think that a proper spell point system should have spells unlocked at the same level which have different costs based on their power.
This isn't a perfect example, but it's likely one that you're aware of. In Skyrim both Ebonyflesh and Paralyse are Expert Alteration spells, but obviously Paralyse is a lot stronger. To show this, Paralyse costs about 100 magicka more, even though they're the same level of spell.
@@the_twig131 yes absolutely not all spells are made equal so spell points like you suggested could work like that and be effective, however it won’t happen because who wants to spend their time changing every spell slot for a cost of points.
Though my point system is trying to resolve an issue me and my players have with pact magic rather than spell casting in general.
Take a spell like shield for example with pact magic using a 5th level slot is kinda wasteful because it cannot be upcast. With my groups points system we can turn down the power to cast spells at lower levels, this will reduce the power of the next spells we cast but we get more spells to cast and don’t waste slots on spells that can’t take advantage of upcasting.
It also stops players from not using their spells because they are saving their high level slots for when it matters most.
Yeah, Warlock is kind of the one case where I can see it being ok, due to the otherwise small number of slots.
As a Free action a Warlock can spend one Hit DIe (Not healing from it) and get back a spent Spell Slot -- PAYING THE PATRON -
I think this is probably too cheap, but it's an interesting idea.
The problem with no charisma sadness on pact of the blade is warlocks already excel at zero resource damage, and if you aren't using your charisma, there's a good chance that your decision to use 3 times as many invocations on your zero resource damage output and also confining you to melee is just going to make your DPR go down compared to eldritch blast and agonizing blast, which also still works in melee with the help of warcaster.
This isn't a problem for paladin, because paladin doesn't have an alternative zero resource output other than weapons, almost all of their damage is reliant on hitting weapons even if they use spell slots. And it isn't a problem with blade singer, because due to their unique multi attack and the lack of competition with eldritch blast, the zero resource output of bladesinger always go up. But if pact of the blade didn't have charisma Why would you choose it over eldritch blast? You can even get eldritch pull, push, or lance of lethargy to compensate for your lack of mastery and you'd still have spent less invocations on it than a typical blade lock would. If the blade lock also relied on more ability scores to do less damage, then bladelock would only be there for the flavor of it
I think the reasoning for cha blade pact and the major blade pact buffs is because of the complaint that "there's no reason to go (MAD and riskier) blade pact if it's objectively worse than just focusing on (SAD and Ranged) EB."
I will say, the reason Bladelocks need charisma weapons isn't "because Hexblade did it." Actually, Hexblade did it because the Bladelock was a terrible option otherwise. The issue is Eldritch Blast. With scaling number of attacks and agonizing blast, Eldritch blast is a ranged options comparable to a fighter with a bow easily. And, since it is a spell and works off charisma, buffing your at-will attack also buffs your spells and skills. It synergizes.
Meanwhile, like Bards and Paladins, Bladelocks in 2014 sans Hexblade had to invest in dexterity (or strength if you were crazy) to have their weapons be effective, which lowered their actual spellcasting abilities. And they did less damage than Eldritch Blast, which, unlike the Bard and Paladin was RIGHT THERE to take. Eventually leading Bladelocks to feeling like their entire concept was a joke.
Especially when Tomelock took Shillelagh and had an equivalent melee option AND Eldritch Blast, but both were based on Charisma.
Now, this isn't to say I don't think the current version is overtuned. It is. Three attacks is too much, and that third attack should probably just be turned into a 1/turn flat bonus or something. But going back to dex weapons on a bladelock will kill it again. Because then there is no point in a bladelock existing. Tome does its job better, cheaper, and without weakening the fullcasters spellcasting.
Hex returning to the 2014 version is fine, Eldritch Blast not being tied to Warlock levels is great, and Pact of the Blade is too good but I don't wish for it to be nerfed into the ground. Additionally, as an aside Eldritch Spear can be really good especially if you're playing a extremely long range blaster/mostly summoner Genielock build (shout to Bilbron Bafflestone). I do agree with most of your other suggestions/observations. Take care.
While I agree that this pact of the blade is too powerful compared to other martial classes it actually might be a decent benchmark for martial classes as the warlock is still a Spellcaster and shouldn't be better that the fighter etc at what they do so maybe they just need to up the game for all the martial classes. Anyway if the other classes stay as they are then yes this is too good
Bladelock is mostly fine, but only when you’re near the high end - it’s too frontloaded here. Make it take time to swap weapons (leave the bonus action to summon, though), move the Mastery to Thirsting Blade, move the damage type selection to Lifedrinker, and move the second extra attack back several levels, and it keeps (pretty much) on pace with EB+AB, which should be the baseline they need to hit, otherwise it’s a trap choice (At present, it significantly outpaces EB+AB between 9 and 17)
Change to Warlock spell slot progression:
1 spell slot at level 1
2 spell slot at level 2
3 spell slot at level 5
4 spell slot at level 9
5 spell slot at level 13
6 spell slot at level 17
Additionally, you only get half of your spell slot (rounding down) back on a short rest
This is how I think they should change it
This is a decent idea, yeah.
14:25 Thank you! Thats seriously only there for minmaxers. I brought this up on reddit and boy was it divisive
Yeah, it's obviously a great feature, but it's just not necessary.
This review is Pact with information! ... Sorry, I just woke up from a nap and I'm excited for a new the_twig video.
I'm sorry, but you leave me no choice. After that I'll be making you sleep for a lot longer.
On the Pact of the Tome, the wording is a bit poor but it does imply you can't just generate free spell slots beyond the one given. The slot is tied to your tome, and works as normal however if you expend it, you can't just resummon your tome on a short rest to refresh the slot. Resummoning on a long rest also doesn't work as the slot disappears when the old tome is replaced.
Also I noticed you don't seem as opposed to the Warlock's huge buff in terms of spells known (29 by default, 31 from just tome pact) as you did with Sorcerer. Is it cause their list caps out at 5th level?
Partially, yes, but also because none of the Warlock subs let you switch spells like Aberrant and Clockwork can.
@@the_twig131 Fair enough, I play AM Sorc so I highly value the benefits of spell switching and psionic Sorcery, but could definitely see the spell switching go away with some tweaks. Maybe copying from the GOOlock and letting you psionic cast enchantment and divination spells from your list on top of those in your expanded list (which is technically stronger than the Warlock feature but they also don't pay for it). I am of the mind that not all Sorc subclasses need an extra list (or at least one as big) as long as the features are solid but it does feel odd not to pick up spells like Call Lightning as a Storm Sorc or even Dragon's Breath as a Draconic.
Very upset about gaze of two minds range the range isn’t large enough you can use it for infiltration and espionage. It was so fun and sure there was cheese but who wants to play where u simply do not get to roleplay. In practice it was just a great way to support infiltration. And fun in combat. Give us at least 120 feet possibly 300
60 ft. is probably enough to scout a room or two ahead at least. I kind of feel like they should just make it into a Chainlock invocation. You can already see through the eyes of your familiar and cast touch spells if you're within 100 ft, and the old Voice of the Chain allowed you to extend the sense sharing to infinite. Why not just bring that back instead of Gaze of Two Minds, and allow you to have infinite sense sharing, and any spell within 100 ft.?
Warlock would need to stop having pact slots matching the max level slot of regular casters if they got more slots, especially at levels where other casters only have one of them like mid to late tier 2 & teir 3
You mean like playtest 5? Yeah, I like that idea, let's do that. (Please WotC, playtest 5 was great.)
@@the_twig131 The PT5 warlock was something I liked a lot but not *quite* my point, I was talking about your give more slots to pact example. If wotc's not willing to go back in that direction it's probably better making 2014 style pact slots not an abomination. If you look at pact slot level progression every time a wiz/clr/sorc/dru gets access to a new slot level in tier1 &2 the warlock is upgrading their pact slots to it at the same level. That holds till level 11 when warlock upgrades slot level again starts gets identical slot gains from arcanum & keeps gaining slot numbers . The SR pact magic concept is they get fewer slots but don't have access to as many lower level slots, but regular casters freeze their lower level slot gains at level 9 until they hit level 18. Giving warlock more slots would violate the "but fewer lower level slots" part. "*If* giving warlock more slots with SR pact slots is justified they should not be matching their pact slot levels to regular casters & maybe be behind at least slot level until the regular casters freeze at 9 or 11 when warlock could gain an extra slot or two while falling behind another slot or two. A spitball set of numbers using spell points might be something like at 5th when sorc has 4/3/2 a warlock could go from 2x3s to 3x2SR slots(10sp worth) ->2x2s 2x1s b/c there's not much room to finesse the numbers yet. Maybe they upgrade to some combo of 3s &2s SR slots at 7th when the regular caster caps out on 3s & gets a single 4th . Things get complicated jumping that pattern to 4s & 3s because with 5th level slots the progression changes for regular casters again not capping out until 18th & the lower level slots are pretty much frozen since level 9 or 10. Starting at level 11 the warlock is currently getting an arcanum slot every time a regular caster gets a slot above 5th & still has gains with AREB along with other invocations like the bladelock & so on & it leaves no reason to keep bumping pact slot levels or numbers
Giving pack of the blade a level 3 requirement, removing the 3rd attack from thirsting blade, and moving lifedrinker back to 11th level while buffing its damage slightly should fix most of the pact of the blade balance issues while keeping the concept/fun in tact
Always looking forward to your videos!
I wouldn't say that magical cunning is "effectively one long rest spell slot" at all,
The limitations of only really being able to use it if you are out of spell slots and don't take a short rest means that you just don't have the opportunity to use it a lot of the time. Especially since a warlock with no spell slots isn't unreasonable to ask for a short rest if there's even the slightest ability to stand around and do nothing.
If a warlock is in a day that has 1 fight with no short rests, or 2 fights with 1, they still only have 2 or 4 spell slots. Which hurts a lot since even 6 spell slots still feels pressed and the DMG recommends 2 short rests and encounter design that, while says 5-8 fights, can be done in 3 or 4.
Haven’t watched the vid yet but fundamentally disagree with the title.
It’s built on the false assumptions that Bladepact melee is as good as warlock range options and that Spellcasting does not depreciate the value of melee
To the first, melee is fundamentally worse than range since it incurs significantly more risk for sometimes comparable reward. So if your party can effectively engineer preferable terrain for encounters, faces flying foes often, range (ie EB and spell casting) are better paths to build along.
Blade requires more invocation investment and incurs greater risk, yes even with a bow is my contention (though to a much decreased degree).
Warlocks have 9 levels of spells. There’s a significant chance they will spend at least round 1 of any combat encounter casting a spell requiring their action. This depreciates the value of the melee viability by, typically, 20-33%.
Bladelocks are, by nature of the class, forced to make invocation choices that deny them fun/versatile options. Feat choices that enhance a particular weapon narrow the variety of weapons their versatile pact blade can bring to the table, a weakness shared by every martial except Fighter.
The damage difference capable by a fully optimized bladelock vs fully optimized Fighter is wholly dependent on a spell the Fighter’s level 6 feat or background can grant access to as an EK (or any fighter 1 or more times a day) and damage spikes from spells like Fireball which preclude the character from using their melee options.
If Barabarians and Rangers are lagging in this regard (and Berzerker’s are not), I’d recommend looking to improve those classes rather than nipping at the warlock.
Note: if I have a bias, it’s rooted in the narrative consequence of warlock stories (Patrons don’t offer heavens) and if you aren’t using your PCs Patron as the occasional stick, then I think you’re the partially responsible for this perception of the class at this time.
Warlock should be “rock band on tour” with an acceptance and understanding that sooner or later the party is over.
Blade pact with universally considered the worst warlock before hex blade. Basically every thread about bladelocks were mostly about how they were bad gishes, and Eldritch Blasters were explicitly better.
Bards are full casters, and Paladins Heavily Armored Martials.
But I do agree that Blade is overtuned. I think an invocation for Mastery and delaying the third attack to 15 is better, as their damage starts falling off then but is still respectable at 11
The third attack should be a different invocation (maybe lv 15+), lifedrinker should have a limit of how many hit dice you can use to heal yourself (I've used it and is kind of OP even at lv 10) and the cha based attacks should be a 5+ warlock level with pact of the blade. Thats all, with those changes I think Warlock would be a strong pick without been broken.
So does the level 6 and 14 level features for fey expend a use of your charisma mod misty step or are they meant to give a free casting every time they are used?
6 uses your CHA mod casts, 14 does not. 14 is completely free.
I really like the GOO Warlock 6-14, but I think both features at 3 (outside the spells which are really good) are meh
Psychic Spells just isn't that impactful because what spells am I using to deal damage? Eldritch Blast? Force is more reliable, Shillelagh? Magical Bludgeoning. Dissonant Whispers/Phantasmal Force? Already Psychic
Awakened Mind is cool and I cannot repeat this enough...very flavorful for the subclass...but I don't know if communicating with one creature compares to the other level 3 features such as Healing Light, Dark One's Blessing or Steps of the Fey
Yeah, the 3rd level features aren't especially good. They could definitely be buffed up a bit.
Good Buneary Teacher!
Much as I've sworn off WotC after what's happened, I hope Good Buneary Teacher can succeed enough to still be making videos even after there's no D&D left to discuss.
Pact boon have no requirement and can be picked up by any spellcaster that takes Eldritch Adept feat from tasha's!
This makes no sence to me! I think that the design team havn't thought of backwards compatible feats! and you can also chose witch pact boon you want! as a non warlock!?!? No need for multiclassing???
If I'm a paladin or a variant human bard I would definetly want to pick the feat to get this new Pact of the Blade, because switching between weapon mastery as a bonus action is great! and the paladin/bard can still use strength/dexterity to attack!
Also a warlock can have both pact of the blade and tome on the same character now!
I think there are lots of other mistakes in this playtest for the base Warlock!
Great vid Twig!
I think that if they're going to do this with pacts, and Eldritch Adept is still going to exist, the pacts should probably have a prerequisite of 1st level Warlock. That would exclude them from Eldritch Adept.
Can they make one change with pact of the tome? You know where one can choose Intelligence instead of Charisma for their spells.
Yeah no Blade Pact is not fine, especially as Eldritch Adept is going to still be a valid choice via back compatibility. It’s the most obvious feat to grab on any melee or ranged charisma build.
Frankly if the 3rd attack had a invocation tax at 15 I’d almost be fine with it but martials need some kinda niche.
Scariest thing about pact of the blade is that paladins/bards can pick it up by simply taking the "eldrich Adept" feat without even multiclassing. I'm actually 100% okay with your idea of pact of the blade not giving CHA attacks.
A 1 level dip is often 'cheaper' than a feat, when it comes to making powerful builds. So I wouldn't worry too much about that part. But it is too strong regardless.
Honestly I'm tired of having to consider all posible multiclass implications when thinking about balancing classes. Maybe we should just accept that multiclassing is broken and call it a day.
@@josequiles7430 There are VERY few of them - honestly mostly just warlock related. Simply make eldrich blast scale with warlock level, and make pact of the blade scale require 3 levels of warlock and all multiclassing shenanigans are gone.
@@JJV7243 it's not just warlock tho. For example, they made action surge not work with spells to prevent every spell caster talking two levels in Fighter, only to end up hurting the Eldritch Knight. And it didn't even amount to much because they'll still take at least one level for the armor proficiencies
@@josequiles7430 The new eldrich knight can cast spells by using their attack action's attacks in the new playtest, in fact they're stronger than ever. Action surge not working on spells is totally fine in my book too!
What with ASI being a feat, doesn't that mean Lessons of the Old Ones is gonna give Warlocks insanely high stats?
Good question, I think the ASI feat has a 4th level pre requisite so you cant choose that one
As kongoaurius said, you can't take ASI because it has 4th level prerequisite.
What if the spell slots equaled proficiency?
In what world isn't your Pact of the Blade the biggest trap option in the game? Why even pick it if it doesn't provide... literally anything apart from unlocking Thirsting blade?
If Eldritch Blast with Spellsniper deals VASTLY more damage than Pact of the Blade - why bother even having it in the game? lol UA7 Blade FINALLY makes mono-Blade worthwhile and still only gets even with EB at level 17 instead of being weaker. Maybe tie Smite to BA, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's not competitive with EB.
bladelock is fine because i like it. also im glad we are back to short rest full caster. the arcane half caster was an abomination
Your opinion is wrong about Pact of the Balde then. Just do some math... why would you EVER pick Blade, when EB spam is easier, requires a single invocation and deals flat out more damage. lol
Intraclass balance makes it impossible for Blade to work without a 3rd attack, unless you literally put no-mod EB damage once per turn on their attacks. Also Barb and Fighter EASILY outdamage warlock, unless you have shroud active, and even that might not be the case if you factor in maneuvers and action surge.
As to why warlock should have CHA attack? Because you also needs DEX, while Paladin can just forego it. You are still MAD despite having CHA attacks. Remember the 13 STR you now need to invest to be able to use 2h weapons on top also? And remember that you as low AC class have to frontline and have concentration checks? So better get that CON up - ah yeah, no saving throw prof for that either. Too bad...
I _have_ done some math. Pact of the Blade with Shroud will be doing around 2.5x as much damage as Eldritch Blast from levels 9 to 16, and 60% more damage from level 17 up (assuming you use Foresight). EB is easier and requires fewer invocations, but the new PB blows it out of the water in terms of damage potential.
If you don't want to have to buy up Str for a heavy weapon, use a rapier. With Vex, you'll be on par with a greatsword up til level 16. The greatsword benefits from Foresight at level 17, though, while the rapier doesn't, so you may want to change things up after that point. Level 17 is also the point where Eldritch Blast gets really good, too, so there are other options.
Champion does outdamage the warlock, assuming Hex instead of Shroud (Shroud is on par with the Champion), but the Hex/Blade warlock (not even Shroud) beats the Wild Heart/World Tree barbarian from level 11 on. Barbarian needs damage boosts from its subclass (so Berserker or Zealot) to pull ahead. The small bits of utility the other subclasses give would just compare to warlock's spells plus subclasses of its own.
@@David-id6jw If you use a resource (spells like shroud) you SHOULD outdamage non-resource damage. That's the entire design concept of the game.
For spell progression, I like the idea of giving them halfcast or spell slots, and a new Pact magic feature at 3rd level that lets them upcast a limited number of spells to standard caster progression when they spend a spell slot.
I also like setting up mystic arcana, again at level three, and they can cast one spell with standard spell level progression, and they can change it when they level up. That way it levels three and five. They can have one second level than third level spell, respectively. Then give them another MA at 7th level so they can have one third level, and one fourth level spell slot. They got a third arcanum slot at 11th, since they have halfcaster spell slots up to third level spells, and three mystic arcanum for a fourth, fifth and sixth level spell slot. Then you get your fourth arcanum slot at 15th level.
Every time you gain spells known at a higher level when you get to levels. 5. 9. 13 and 17, you can advance your mystic arcanum spell, but you don't necessarily have to.
With all that bullsht warlocks are having, I'm in for a bad Warlock in it's final form. Community just can't agree to where put it
I dont understand the wislock
666 views
-> Just notice when you were talking about Patrons
I actually think with some small nerfs Pact of the Blade Warlock will be balanced. Melee gishes like Bladesinger do not scale well into higher levels where they are better off becoming a backliner due to poor bulk and worse melee options than ranged. Bladelock can be balanced PROVIDED the following issues are fixed:
- Pact of the Blade Warlock should not be able to multiclass with Paladin for the Armor Proficiency. A good solution to this is making it so that Pact of the Blade features only work if you are unarmored.
- Pact of the Blade is less effective when used with a ranged weapon. In fact, it's a bit strange that it boosts ranged weapons at all with a name like "Pact of the BLADE". I won't say it's useless with ranged weapons, but time and time again 5e has shown that ranged combat has simply so many advantages over melee that unless it is nerfed pretty hard for ranged weapons this will not be balanced.
With these changes, the only method Bladelocks will have for improving their survivability will be support from team mates (team work is good!) and Armor of Agathys/Shield/Any other defensive spells they can get from Multiclassing. (Bladelocks aren't even good users of Shield unless they multiclass with Sorcerer since it uses their precious Pact slots and doesn't upcast)
Lmao the unarmored is the wildest nerf I've seen. Yeah let me go with 12 AC and a d8 into the front line with no natural AC scaling. LMAO