THE TRUTH ABOUT THE WHISKY CASK MARKET
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2022
- *PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE
An insight into my experiences within the whisky cask market and investments into barrels of whiskey. Please note that this is not investment advice, this is simply a word of caution from a professional working in the industry.
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I´m an investor in other assets and want to know more about whisky. Thank you for the info and the clear explanation of its dangers and pitfalls. What I concluded so far: there´s no free lunch in any market...nothing is as good as it seems and , most important, If it looks safe, that´s because you should dig deeper to understand it better.
you are very welcome Fabio, I hope you found it helpful. I don't want to deter people from whisky as an alternative asset and there are some great companies/opportunities out there. the key thing to understand is how you'll exit the investment - the only aim should be to get the liquid in bottles, so if it's predicated on auctions/other investors buying you out at a higher price, beware.
Father lost cask and money because the rent went up and price of whisky went down. That was in the 70s.
I just buy it by the bottle...too dodgy
Damn straight
@@JohnJKelly-of4dcits not about drinking the bottle though. The value when It ages. My college tuition was pain on the maturation of wine!
Thanks for this. Im a whiskey enthusiast. Working class young lad with not a lot to my name and I was thinking of investing in casks to help set myself up for the future. I'll do some more research but I am strongly reconsidering
definitely make sure you do your research lad - unfortunately there's not much in the way of consumer protection in this sphere at present so getting stuck with a purchase you're unhappy with isn't uncommon. always here for a chat if you'd like some guidance to avoid the pitfalls.
@Fionn in the same boat, maybe worth sharing some research?
@@kelvinrugwiji1745 best thing I can suggest is understanding exit strategies offered by companies (look for businesses that actually bottle the liquid), and then understanding pricing structures. whisky should be sold on a price per litre or a price per litre per year - this allows you to understand potential returns much easier
I really appreciate your transparency...If you get up and running I am sure the commenters on here would support your next venture...
thanks Wayne! we've been up and running for then last 5/6years now and really starting to gain some traction these last 12 months. lots of exciting things coming so stay tuned
I bought the casks from Whiskey & Wealth Club . So far I feel like my portfolio is in good hands
glad to hear you're happy Sunny! out of interest, have you sold anything yet or just been buying?
❤if i ever buy a cask of whiskey … i would buy it just on your advise💪🏼thanx for sharing
appreciate the support Roger! be cautious though as I'm sure I've missed something - it's impossible to cover all the potential pitfalls with this esoteric asset class
Great informative videos Jake. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Carl, really appreciate the support!
Well that's bloody scary. I've not considered cask investment myself but I'm looking forward to the next episode to hear more. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
in honesty I'm just fed up of seeing all the raging promotion when no one mentions the risks. everyone in the trade is well aware of what's happening but the public are completely in the dark. thanks for watching - next episode out tomorrow!
Unfortunately. Pretty mutch all what you just said happend with me. Amazing sample at purchase, completely different 3 years later pulled from my actual cask. Very long response times on basic information, contradicting details on paperwork, 30l of whisky missing after re-racking :(
I'm sorry to hear that but you're by no means alone. we're here to help/offer advice if you'd like someone in the industry to get involved
Incredibly insightful. Thanks for sharing!
thanks for watching Guy, glad you found it helpful. next video launches in a few hours
Dude you have just given me a reason to think twice I have been thining about Whisky Cast wealth and if you are saying I will lose a lot of liters in the warehouses thats a loss I have to educate myself deeper ..was thinking of exporting them too...
definitely something to properly wrap your head around before jumping in. exporting can be a great exit strategy, but having the infrastructure and knowledge on how to do it is key
@@TheWhiskyBaron Thank you
I find it interesting that some want your financial portfolio before investing. Apparently cash isn’t what it you’d to be. And like all investments you really have to do your homework and cross your T and dot your I or you will get burned. As a retired person this is not a wish investment something like this should be considered when younger and recovering from a glitch is possible painful but not a life altering experience.
doing your homework - couldn't have said it better myself!
what are the companies that the people created (so we can avoid them)?
Basically I am looking into this, but there are loads out there, and wanting to avoid the bad companies.
so also any advice would be welcome
the only advise I can offer is to proceed with caution. make sure you're clear on what you want to achieve and do as much research as you can to establish whether or not you'll be able to get there. we're always happy to have a call and talk through the market if you'd like
I bought a cask in June 2022. It is guaranteed 10 year storage and seems to be a legit investment company so far. I do worry about a lot of things considering im new to it. I know the angels share will reduce the volume over time but the value will increase every year. It was sold to me as being tax exempt because it is a depleting comodity (at least thats how i remember the wording, forgive me if im wrong) due to the angels share. After 3 years i can look to sell, which i won't, at which point i will assess what kind of gains it has made
I’d be very concerned that it’s been sold to you as tax exempt - it isn’t. Happy to have a chat and clear up any uncertainties if you’d like
@@TheWhiskyBaron Hi, from the conversations we were having at the time that's what was said. As I'm not bottling and selling I won't pay tax. At least thats how I interpreted it!
@@kevh7941 yes, unfortunately this is one of the mistruths being spread about whisky - I can almost guess who you’ve bought from based on this info alone. There are tax benefits and holding it in bond means no VAT, however, CGT still applies
@@TheWhiskyBaron 😂 why I'm I not shocked at all. Well all I can do is persevere and hope I get my money back in years to come
@@kevh7941 you’ve likely got more options than you realise. Feel free to get in touch if you’d like to have a chat - no strings attached
Hey Jake, glad i came across your channel.
Ive recently been in contact with a whisky investment company and waiting a return call to talk about possible investment etc.
They told me they are a wowgr register company i to have a look into that? Should i just not bother with the return call as seems they are saying exactly what you warned about.
Cheers
Ricky
it's entirely up to you Ricky - whilst having a WOWGR is the first step to being a legally viable cask 'trading' company, it seems you may be a bit more wary now that you're starting to get to grips with the market.
I wouldn't say don't take the call, I'd just advise extreme caution before making any purchase. Happy to discuss any options that are put in front of you. As a bottler I'm always looking for good deals so if you can buy a cask cheaper than I can I'll let you know and maybe you'll work with me down the line when it comes to bottling
This is most helpful. Thank you very much ❤️
you are very welcome Terry, glad you found it helpful!
Wow very interesting & at the same time worrying, transparency wise (not that I am interested in investing in casks, I don't have the money for that, the place for it and neither good storage conditions too-people forget often about that question, btw, and always "think glamour"...if I had the money to buy a cask I'd rather "trust a trustee" company to take care of it (sure I'll visit it or ask for a sample each year to check the cask evolution, but won't rely on my own abilities to manage it, plus there'll be disgorging & bottling issues, and of course taxes).
so true Greg, lots of things to consider before you jump into buying a cask. hopefully the industry will become a safer place for 'investors' moving forward
Think I will stick to buying bottles, you have scared me off now
Not my intention, but you’re probably better off for it Richie!
Amazing video - Thankyou
glad it's been of some use to you Jacob
Interesting, I've been seeing the adverts for VCL Vinters, any info in them?
no info on them Callum; sorry I can't help
I would personally not invest with VCL again. I've had a really bad experience with VCL. including false certificates of cask ownership, serious delays and problems recouping investment and hopeless communications. Still owed thousands which I have almost given up hope of ever seeing again.
@@johnbennett896 amazing thank you,
I was getting weirded out by there hard sell & it actually started sounding like a scam, they weren't able to answer some pretty basic questions I was asking which I thought was weird, yet they kept shooting me massive growth projections I hadn't asked for, I didn't go with them, still looking for something but I'm now trying the direct approach & talking to distilleries
Sorry if im being naive, but is there anything stopping you from just storing itn yoruself? That way you know its safe and no one is tampering with it
Great question and in theory this should be an easy solution. You’d either need a bonded warehouse of your own or an account at one you trust - unfortunately opening accounts at warehouses is difficult for businesses now, never mind individuals
I asked for a brochure from a Cask website. I didn't get a brochure, just a chancer salesman's email. Now I receive spam and cold calls from a company with a different name (according to my Google phone) and naturally I've become suspicious. This video reaffirms this. I'm not sure where to look next.
Sorry to hear you’ve had this experience - not uncommon. Happy to have a chat with you if you’d like more info on the market and to understand how we work with clients, but we don’t deal in investments
Beard meets food is a whiskey investor! Who knew😮
you're not the first and you won't be the last!
Thanks for the video really informative! I’ve just came off a call with a company trying to sell me a cask and I was seriously considering it, hence the reason I’m on you tube searching! This company are saying I’m most likely to double my investment within 3-5years?! To good to be true?
@@jaysea8t you're most welcome my guy, glad we can provide some value and insight in this area. I'd advise extreme caution here - terms like 'most likely' and 'double your investment' seem leading to me. I'd be more likely to trust someone who highlights potential but also outlines a worst case scenario as there are no guarantees, in life or in whisky!
Thank you! Do you provide a investment platform yourself where potential investors can invest through your company?
@@jaysea8t no, we don't sell investments Jay. we do have something interesting in the works though so keep your powder dry and your eyes open as we'll be announcing interesting updates soon enough!
Awesome
thanks for watching!
Are you available for some advice? I'm thinking of investing in a cask
I can’t offer any investment advice and if investing is your plan then casks aren’t really for you. I can offer you some more insight into owning casks and perhaps some guidance in a murky market
I own just 3 casks. I most likely will never buy another. I now buy bottles and store them myself. I do not like the fact I never really see this whiskey and you can basically tell me anything and I have no real way of knowing if it is accurate.
Whatever I buy now , whiskey, gold, silver , art etc etc. I want physical possession. It is the only way to really know what you actually own.
I completely understand why you'd prefer bottles - much more control from your POV. do you mind me asking what casks you purchased?
@@TheWhiskyBaron I opened an account at vinovest. I bought three casks of American whiskey . Stumpy's ? That's all I own there. I have no clue whether it will ever be worth anything and basically just act like it's not there. No point . They tell you to plan on owning it for 5 years . I'm fine with that. I don't need the money and hopefully I'll get it back someday.
I buy bottles now. I focused on MacCallan as of late.
@@timkozlow5258 it sounds like your approach is fairly spot on in as much as you've allocated funds that you don't need and you're happy to tuck them away for 5+ years. hope your bottle collection continues to go from strength to strength, but remember to open one every now and then!
Curious what the companies are that were set up illegally. Anyone know?
always easy to dig out if you know where you're looking. add me on LinkedIn if you like
It’s not good investment either rent to hold it goes up and prices of whisky go down!
ye, storage costs are definitely something to consider
If you're paying more that £800 per Hogs head of new fill, you're being scammed.
I'd largely agree with you from a value perspective, however, distilleries won't sell new make liquid at this rate moving forward due to the rise of production costs this past 18months. buying new make now comes down to a game of overpaying by as little as possible and waiting for the intrinsic value of the cask to rise as it matures
I hope you will understand this. A casks whiskey is 200 litres.
10 years mature you 160 and 25 years mature you only get back 100 litres.
Not someone drink it. 😂
yes, I understand how evaporation of alcohol works Peter, however, I'm referring to liquid disappearing following fresh regauges. this cannot be explained by long term maturation
It’s called the Angels Share, and not what he is referring to.
I saw one of these whiskey investment things on Facebook and I knew it would be a load of bullshit but this is way worse than I thought. There are so many people getting involved as well it's ridiculous.
yes, unfortunately it's a lot scarier than it seems on the surface and as you say, so many are buying in. still some good deals out there but they're few and far between at present
Good to know seems a bit dodgy there's some cowboys out there.
just a few Dan - keep your wits about you
It sounds terrible
It certainly can be a bad experience if you go into it without a reasonable understanding
Not really a whisky enthusiast. Whisky is just another flavoured alcohol.
Try exploring it with someone who knows their stuff - it might surprise you as to how many different flavours/styles exist within whisky. Sláinte!
@@TheWhiskyBaron Not really into putting poison into my body but feel free to put it in yours.