Atlantis is dead
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- Опубліковано 16 кві 2024
- It's over.
My thoughts on Hancock vs Flint dibble debate on Joe Rogan
The podcast:
• Joe Rogan Experience #...
Graham's article:
grahamhancock.com/hancockg23/
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Hancock doesn’t really need a whole lot of evidence, because he’s mostly talking to people who want to believe.
No, he's mistype talking to people who don't have a strong opinion at all
Kind of like one of our presidential candidates.
Exactly, and like flat earthers they won't be swayed by solid arguments against their pet hobbyhorse.
They will continue galloping around thinking they are on a real thoroughbred.
@@robertspies4695 You mean all of them?
@@pencilpauli9442 this is different. Flat earth can be scientifically proven false, while this cannot. This is more like religion as he says, it cannot be proven wrong. Flat earth is not a religion, it is a mental deficiency or a delusion.
there is something really poetic about being a renowned archaeologist and being named Flint
I think it's typical. Your name forces you to think about it. Like, John Brown, who was white, why did he championed the plight of brown people? And was willing to die for their freedom?! Imho his surname made him think about it. Maybe his peers teased him because of his surname since childhood and that prompted him to do what he did.
you mean Flint the Time detective
Especially since a dibble is a pointed implement for making holes in the ground.
Nominative determinism, perhaps? It must be entirely possible, as we've only studied less than 5% of the world's surnames, and we just haven't looked in the right places... 😉
Well, his father was a Paleolithic archaeologist who specialized in lithic reduction (aka flint napping). So no surpise he named his son Flint.
Hancock's 'argument' for the existence of Narnia is basically that we havent checked everybody's wardrobe yet. That is his level of debate now, and his millions of followers will focus their confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance based beliefs on that bundle of straws. As long as we havent retroactively researched every wardrobe, Narnia will always be real to them, instead of a fairytale CS Lewis made up to illustrate his ideas about morality and spirituality and imagination.
Classic!
What percentage of wardrobes have been checked by pseudoarchaeologists? Less than 1%? checkmate!
For real, another thing that really pissed me off was how he would hold Flint's claims to such an insane degree of evidence that it essentially disallows inferencing (the back and forth about Quezlcoat and how the myth changed after Spanish subjugation)
@@Pos3id0n. indeed. I think it was Carl Sagan who said something along the lines of 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' which in Hancock's bubble means that everybody has to perform biblical miracles to proof him worng, while he can just lean back in his pile of Patreon money , fabricating stories to fit his narrative and spouting plattitudes when confronted by his 'nemeses and enemies', basking in the warm support of the Ahnenerbe devotees, pissdrinkers, and dowsing rod peddlers .
No Graham, the burden is not on US to proof YOU are wrong, the burden is on on YOU to proof YOU are right!
Ahahaha im dead
I used to be hugely into Graham Hancock's work. Then I saw the Stefan Milo video from a few years ago. The argument that food should be all over the world if there was a global civilization ended my belief in Hancock's ideas. Tomatoes and potatoes would not have been isolated to the Americas.
For me it was Ancient Aliens Debunked on youtube. Pretty much made me reconsider ALL the conspiracy theories I was into at the time.
@@dustinhatfield22 and now you associate skepticism with intellectualism so you are still wrong.
Same!
@@dustinhatfield22 Its like looking behind the curtain at a puppet show...
Once you see it clearly demonstrated how ridiculous a certain conspiracy theory is, it doesn't take long to see the same thing with nearly all of them. They never lead anywhere.
Had the same experience myself.
Not quite what I saw, saying what we've found so far doesn't support it is a bit smug.
I'm not convinced either way but I'm still open to learn. Archeology is the best known answer on evidence we have at a point in time. New evidence for many things is discovered over time and the story changes. Like I say, Im not and can't be 100% either way .
I think the point that hunter-gatherer tribes left a bigger archeological record than a supposed contemporaneous advanced, globe-spanning civilization is pretty damning.
In all other cases, the larger the civilization, the more they leave behind, but not for Atlantis apparently 😂
I guess you get all your information from Hancock instead of doing a UA-cam search 😂
Well all their architecture was made out of psionic energy. Sitting on a chair of levitating psychic power, the rain cascading down roofs and walls of psychic power to keep you dry, you sip the psychedelic wine resting in an invisible goblet of levitation. Entire cities dwarfing the biggest conurbation of our world, made out of thought. Yeah, that's it.
They were really environmentally conscious, just like those aliens that didn't left even one laser saw after they left. Some people just don't like to pollute:)
It all fell into the sea somehow though and government (yes, only one!) is hiding that innit.
@@user-wb7nv9ht1gyou can't read
He made an entire 8 episode Netflix series about the existing archeological evidence for this civilization. He said he found possible evidence of this civilization in Indonesia, Mexico, Malta, the Bahamas, Turkey, and the United States. He said the only reason mainstream archeology wouldn't accept his theories wasn't because he had no evidence, but because they were either ignorant or suppressing alternative views. And now he admits none of what he presented was evidence of his theory and actually it's somewhere else in either the Amazon, Sahara, or on the continental shelf.
The evidence or lack there of made no difference to Graham, his audience is laymen who take Netflix and JRE seriously. Evidence never had any part... He's grifting a narrative to an uneducated audience prone to conspiracy and sensationalism because that's what sells.
You can tell crooks the moment they start complaining about the "mainstream suppressing" them. Same trick as left wing politics. It always catches enough fools to make a living.
@@Leo_ofRedKeep This has to be bait.
Hahahaha Cray MAGATS!!@@Leo_ofRedKeep
@@Leo_ofRedKeepcrazy MAGAT 🤡🐑
"Atlantis can only exist in the gaps of our understanding"
Dude you just summarized the whole of the pseudo science community and their theories. From the alternative historians to the Alien hunters to the HAARP theory peddlers to even the Flat earthers. Great characterization, I'll be using that in discussions thank you 👍🏼
Why are theories without evidence "pseudo science"? They are by definition not science. Why claim otherwise? Theorizing (or more accurately hypothesizing) is the first step in the scientific method after which thorough research and testing of evidence follows. Humans haven't reached this level of technological advancement and knowledge by sticking to what we already know to be fact and "facts" have been debunked countless times through constant research and testing. I find this argument of calling something that no one claims to be scientific "pseudo science" misleading. There's real pseudo science out there e.g. all of astrology or Chinese medicine, latter of which, ironically enough, is being taught at Chinese universities. You also mention Flat Earthers. That's actual pseudo science that claims to be scientifically accurate.
Don't forget that Hancock wrote the Mars Mystery, in which he said the only way to refute his claims are if archeologists went to Mars and did an excavation.
Calling the opposing viewpoint 'arrogant' while you're getting lawyered is basically just giving up.
Flint was spitting facts with sourced evidence but he was mean :( 1-nil to Graham Hand cock
When all else fails, fall back to tone policing
1:58 Nobody said, not even Graham Hancock, Atlantis was about bigger cities and culture etc as Stefan claims. Maybe Atlantis culture was Göpeklitepe etc and you guys are in fact arguing in vain about the same?
@@radieschen79 Gobekli is a standard megalithic site. There is nothing super advanced about it. It is just store masonry which has been around for thousands of years.
@@radieschen79 One can't make claim of a global civilization and not imply that the culture wasn't massive. A global spanning civilization would by default be a large culture. Especially if it left its fingerprints as Graham likes to say in all these places around the world. The more time goes on the more it seems Graham is just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks. He's searched high and low from the Middle East to the Americas. From Africa to Asia and when one site fails he's onto the next. I think this Flint fella did an amazing job dismantling Graham as the snake oil salesman he is.
Flint Dibble stole my bike when we were children. I never confronted him because I knew he would probably make better use of it in the long run…
Go Flint go!
So lying about the data and now stealing as a youth. What a prick
BBC Horizon pretty much debunked Hancock's claims nearly 25 years ago. How he has managed to continue to sell books is beyond me.
Because anti-intellectualism is still a viable market. Sadly.
@@NinjaMonkeyPrime That's only part of it. There's also a strong streak of people who imagine they are the true intellectuals who know the "truth". They rely on what they perceive to be strong evidence and lack sufficient self awareness.
Also there are lots of people who lack the ability to understand the subject matter and think critically about it. Maybe they were brought up in an environment where they were discouraged from asking questions. Unwarranted belief (faith) was valued over reason. Even if they stop going to church (say), that mindset usually means they’ll latch on to something else, like pseudoscience. I’ve had family members who have done just that, and you can’t reason with them because that’s not how they work.
Yeah I saw that a couple of years ago.
The fact that he still managed to carry on is a testament to the gullible nature of mankind that on average prefers stories to objective evidence.
Just look at how popular Rogan is.@@NinjaMonkeyPrime
Gotta give some credit to Joe for pushing Graham on that point in that moment. I think the viewers understand the concept of sampling better than Graham expects and understand that if you test 5% of the world and find tens of thousands of sites and not one is from what was meant to be a globe spanning high tech civilization.. that’s not precisely good news for what will happen in the other 95%.
When they say that Flint came off as "arrogant," what they mean to say is: 'Flint came off as well researched and correct, and I can't handle that right now, so I'm going to call it arrogance instead.'
They view arrogance as not immediately bowing down and accepting that their garbage theories have the same level of plausibility as actual theories.
😂😂😂 So true. It’s like trying to present an argument based on facts to stupid people. The minute you offer actual evidence that doesn’t agree with whatever unfounded, ill-informed twaddle they’re spouting, they accuse you of denying them their right to an ‘opinion’. (And as evidence for this statement, I offer ‘pretty much any UA-cam ‘comments’ column.) 😂😂😂
he was passionate. I’ve noticed that people who aren’t passionate for truth but are motivated by status get really uncomfortable with earnestness, especially if they can’t exploit it.
Arrogance is conveyed by tone, attitude and a myriad of other cues both verbal and non verbal, not by being well researched and prepared. Dibble could have done much better than he did.
Just like when President Not Sure opened his mouth all the Idiocrats just wanted to slap him.
Graham is a con-man.
During the Robert Schoch/Sphinx section, all Graham could say was how much he respected Robert and how he was brave for sticking to his eroision theory. He doesn't come with facts, just sentimental fluff.
I mean he supports that view, what else is he supposed to say besides that he agrees with that point
It might be a stronger argument to present a view's evidence and arguments than just saying how much of a great view it is and how much you like it
Hancock wouldn't know a fact if it walked up and kicked him in the teeth
You will notice in life that people who shall we say "lack understanding/education" tend to follow a similar approach to questions. They incorrectly assume making poorly formed assumptions supposedly represents "reasoning" and the fervent repeating of those incorrect beliefs represents logic in their minds.
You see with the Hancock fanboy club they'll simply go round and round trapped in their superficial reasoning and poor assumptions deluding themselves into believing they understand what they clearly do not. It is a self-generated fantasy for their part which is exceedingly difficult to break them free of. It requires the one thing they are loathe to do = educate themselves. 🤷
Not enough evidence to say he's a con-man. Stop using belief and seek the truth instead.
I definitely agree with you, im working on my own response video but i thoroughly enjoyed listening to your thoughts on the debate 😁
Have a great week Milo!🌷
Hey, fancy seeing you here. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for your video.
My other favorite creator of You Tube content, Kayleigh! Lovely! ❤
Greetings from Sweden 🇸🇪
Hi Kayleigh! 👋🏼 Love your channel!
@@dukeon thanks!
An archeologist named Flint? The aliens aren't even trying with the simulation anymore 😂😂😂
his father is a famous archeologist who studies flint tools
what if they built all their buildings out of Styrofoam so that when the flood came their civilization just floated away leaving no trace. checkmate archeologist.
Nonsense. They made their buildings of sugar cubes.
Lmao 👑
good hypothesis! I'd like to propose one of my own. the ancient atlantians had acces to vast amounts of either helium, or hydrogen. filling billions of balloons they created a sort of Laputa situation. if it was hydrogen it would also explain why there's no evidence left of them.
Or out of tissue or rice paper? Then it could’ve just dissolved.
you're so mistaken. they built everything out of sand and had to rebuild every time the tide came in and washed it away.
I can’t believe anyone gives Hancock a moment of respectability. I read his “Fingerprints of the Gods” and one other book back in the 80’s and they make no sense. Interesting ideas, but not a shred of sense. He’s built a life on being a charlatan.
For instance, in the one book, he begins by citing Einstein and others vaguely about the Earth’s crust sliding around, the poles swapping to the equator. He takes that and goes to another point and then another and eventually erases the link to the pole movement but retains the conclusions from them. He fixates on the Mayans and their calendar, but that doesn’t fit the pole movement. If you aren’t paying attention you might think he was making sense. But he didn’t.
Contrary to what Hancock likes to portray himself as the underdog but he's not. All of these Lost High Technology influencers and personalities have more influence than academics. Just look at the subscriber and view counts on someone like Brighy Insight vs this channel. Or look at how many times these pseudoscience pushers got on Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast in the world. They have reach and clout. It's important to push back against it. The academics let it fester and it was because they had the same idea as you. Now millions of people are indoctrinated into that cult and fund their nonsense.
@docwhammo Nah, I don't think even he believes himself.
"He’s built a life on being a charlatan"
*He REBUILT his life on being a charlatan, because it paid better and took less work than the journalism he was doing before that for years.
Hancock is like the ancient alien people, doesn't care if its true as long as he sells books.
Its a bit more sad than that. He thinks if he builds up enough momentum someone else will come along and bail him out. When he says no one looked in the Sahara yet, he's hoping someone goes out there and finds another Golbeki Tepe 2.0 so he can jump up and say "I was right all along, Atlantis was real, apologize to me!" He, himself, won't be doing that work.
he is one of their main offenders......!!
@@Pangora2 Exactly. He has all this time, money, and resources, yet he can't start up his own digsites? He can't actually do the work to try finding it instead of waiting for actual archeologists to go on a wild goose chase? Come on.
@@LordVader1094
"He can't actually do the work to try finding it instead of waiting for actual archeologists to go on a wild goose chase?"
Worse, archaeologists can and will do the work of the rich for money as long as they get their own funding to excavate something else of their own choosing.
I believe this happened with the Koch billionaire funded radiocarbon dating of the Egyptian pyramids.
Graham has the money to do this - to send archaeologists off to do what he claims to want.
But of course he doesn't want that - he just wants to keep the mystery and ambiguity which helps him sell books.
Plus the whole aim is making money, so funding archaeology would be a double whammy of loss for him.
There is no lost advanced civilization, but there will be!
We'll get ourselves there eventually lol.
Where’s your evidence?🤔
@@georgecisneros5281 look at America now and wait a thousand years.
@@short207 “A thousand years” from now, is not evidence that exists NOW. If we’re holding folks like Hancock to such a rigorous standard of requiring hard observable evidence for their claims to be taken seriously, then surely one must hold themselves to such a standard when making a claim of that nature regarding the prospective fate of our own society, especially if we’re talking about such long time frames as an entire millennium. I mean…wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite here…right?😉
@@georgecisneros5281 I was making a joke...
Handcock's whole pitch is "you can't prove I am wrong". The best blag ever.
A guy's gotta make a living someway!
It's just a belief not a real theory which is why it's 'difficult' to argue with them. It's like trying to disprove the existence of God. You can't prove a negative but a rational person will logically be skeptical and assume it's not real. Same goes for Atlantis/the so-called advanced civilization.
The guy is like 90 years old, I think he's retired. @@josephjanitorius797
Handcock’s pitch is the base of a faith or religion. Mainstream science is supposed to be about making predictions and testing them. Heinrich Schliemann had a belief that Homer described ancient cultures, cities and conflict. He then tested his hypothesis by digging where he concluded were the spots described in the Iliad, etc. Being part early archeologist-antiquarian-looter-scammer he missed his Troy. Others said Schliemann didn’t find the grand city described by Homer but then others scanned & dug around the base of the citadel. And later archeologists did find a city.
Arthur Evans said Linear B script is NOT Greek. M Ventris & Prof Chadwick proved that it was therefore testing Evan’s prediction.
His entire argument is a fallacy, he’s appealing to a lack of evidence to disprove his argument. He’s complete bs
Atlantis is a hotel in the Bahamas. How dare you! 😂😂😂
Theres one on the NC coast. Dog friendly.
@@arawilson I stayed in the Shih Tzu suite.
That’s right! I saw it two days ago. In Nassau. Atlantis exists
I appreciate the 10 minute summary of this 4 hour debate! 😮
It wasn't archaeologists that disproved Atlantis for me, it was classicists. It's far more convincing that Plato was just writing what was essentially fiction. We have no other source for Atlantis.
You say fiction but he described a place in the world perfectly.. Look up the Richat Structure in the Sahara.
Consentric circles, 2 of water 3 of land.
Mountains to the north
Opening to sea to the south
Large flat plains all around
Buildings made of black, white and red stones
All this above describes the Richat Structure in Sahara perfectly. Alongside there being outlines of huge structures (20+ metres long) around the Richat
and Solon was told by ancient Egyptians in 600BC that its destruction happened 9000 years ago (which equals 11.600, the end of the Ice Age Younger Dryas)
Also a lot of salt deposits found around the richat, showing that there could be water.
I wonder if one day George RR Martin’s partial works survives without much context in 1000 years after current storage degradation… will people argue that King’s Landing was real in the same way?
@@goober479 it was, its in Dubrovnik 😂
Yes we do have other sources for Atlantis
I always thought it was a fictionalised version of Athens, and it's woes.
Hankook is the Deepak Chopra of archaeology…making the world a little dumber one podcast at a time.
He is the Avi Loeb of SidMeyers LostCiv5
Why is big archaeology/physics suppressing all the research about Quantum Atlantis.?..
Bro, get out of this hole@@damiansilva2454
"Atlantis is dead".
Same as saying, "Unicorns are extinct".
@Israelisnotourfriend Big Equine caused this.
No, they live in my head :)
No Atlantis is real but there civilization was destroyed by big archaeology by flinging down the shapes of under water rocks and refusing graham handcock to do an excavation in the Mariana Trench
I want to logically analyze this statement very earnestly, but oh what a trap it is. a veritable riddle penned by either a genius or a fool, for I cannot tell which.
@Israelisnotourfriend If you are being literal, maybe. But people generally refer to the unicorn as a very specific cryptid 😊
The narwal "horn" is actually an elongated tooth, BTW 😉
It was delplorable how he was continually fall back to the point " we need more archeology".
Yes graham i think thats why archeologists are still a thing.
My response to this is well fucking fund some them Graham. He could crowdfund huge sums to finance archaeology - but it shouldn't really be spent on furthering his narrative.
@@buntsbanter1380Exactly, he could fund archeology in all the areas he wishes had more grant money to do digs. He could donate that needed money into the research at specific locations. Instead, he complains that they don’t do it all for free at his request.
To quote Hancock from this very podcast at 1:27:00, Rogan Asks Hancock: “Can we say there is no evidence for an advanced civilization...?”. Hancock replies: "...Yes, we can say there is no evidence for an advanced civilization". -Poof, Hancock's entire hypothesis just evaporated.
That is why it is a hypothesis..... He knows he does not have hard evidence.
@@kageminato2127 calling Hancock’s ideas, a cogent hypothesis, is a bit of a stretch. Especially more so given he admits there is no evidence to even support it. Making what he espouses purely ideas of fantasy fan-fiction.
@@ryann6067 it's still a hypothesis, no matter what your opinion of the hypothesis itself is. Sorry.
Indiana Jones found Atlantis.
It’s in that big government warehouse somewhere.
It belongs in a museum!
So did MacGyver
found fate in it as well
One of the best games ever
It's a story old guys told. What if Atlantis is just a case of granddad telling his grand kids about the good old days as they remember it? "The people made special spear points that were pressure flaked, and this was great technology to everyone. They pissed on animal skins to clean them up and make them softer, and this was far advanced beyond all other cultures!" And it was just average stone age, but to an average stone ager, this was very advanced, and that's how he told it.
Interestingly there are a few other seemingly distinct legends of lost islands that all happen to follow the Mid Atlantic Ridge. Places that figure into very old myths like the ones concerning where the original inhabitants of Ireland supposedly came from. It's curious how that and several other islands that only appear on medieval maps are all along that MAR that just happens to eerilly mirror the location and extent of the island chain in that old Greek myth. What are the odds of several unconnected lost island myths from opposite ends of the Mediterranean all being set fairly near each other and aligning with a major geological feature that none of them could possibly have known of? So what if...
When the sea level drops the massive glaciers depress the continental plates half a mile. We know this. But what about the equilibrium between the weight of all that lost water vs the material under the oceanic plates pressing up? The lost hundred meters makes a hundred tons of net force trying to push every square meter of the entire Atlantic plate up. The stuff below the plate, the "asthenosphere" is about 25% more dense than water so the result should be the entire ocean plate trying to rise 80 meters. Only it can't, not evenly at least. There's also interesting geometric consequences when you figure on structures extending way over the horizon trying to rise or fall as one. In fact the odd and poorly understood transverse faults that run perpendicular to the MAR could be what gives way when exactly such movements try to happen.
Any way you cut it the likelihood is only a small fraction of the seafloor can move in response to such vertical forces but both the seawater and underlying asthenosphere would be incompressible and therefore convey the vast majority of those forces large distances to these weak spots. Just imagine 90% of that movement occuring at the 10% of the seabed near these transverse faults and the MAR. Basically the edge of the ocean plate would curl upwards or bend back down as that mass leaves or returns to the oceans. That could cause 700 meters of rise and fall in those areas beyond the 100 meters of actual sea level change. That's a half mile all together which would actually be enough to leave a dense chain of islands along the MAR and the Azores an island almost as big as Ireland. That's a pretty funny coincidence when you just read the bits about the geography from the Greek story.
Sure it seems pretty out there but there have been controversial geological findings suggesting some of these seamounts were at least a half mile closer to the surface within the last million years (the minimum resolution of the tests used, it could be been say 10,000 years ago) but its mostly been discounted as no accepted geologic theory can explain that result since that has been deep ocean for fifty million years.
There was a core of accurate information in the Odyssey that could be verified by the scientific method with the discovery of Troy when someone finally bothered to try. Whatever distortions or embellishments might've been introduced by Plato his story might've had a basis in objective fact after all.
@@johnassal5838 _"There was a core of accurate information in the Odyssey that could be verified by the scientific method with the discovery of Troy when someone finally bothered to try."_
Troy, the city, was referenced by way more accounts than Odyssey (and Iliad, btw), and we found the historical Troy beneath several layers of several cities built on top of one another. What it is unclear if it is myth or really happened is the Trojan War (of Homeric stories), it remains an open question. It's the Troy being the setting of the Homeric Trojan Wars that is in question, even to this day when we already know where Troy is (beneath several layers of other "Troys").
Whereas Atlantis is only ever mentioned by Plato and no one else (all other references are based on his), and it's done as a rhetoric instrument to tell an allegory in two _dialogues._
“The good ole days”
Well I think we forgetting that Atlantis was created in a day by the literal god of the sea and a continent island sank in one day due to an earthquake. When you remember that part it’s obviously not a true story yeah?
That's literally what it was. Plato was just making up crap to make a point about how even with all the tech in the world, if your society wasn't well-disciplined it wouldn't last.
I never understood why people want to believe in things such as Atlantis or ancient aliens while what actually happened in history is just as if not way more fascinating
I believe in it, but not in the same way as Hanncock or the story is told. I also dont "want" to believe, per say, more want to learn about the past.
That said, i dont think it was some advanced civilization that spread the globe lol, i dont even think its in the Atlantic or was even called Atlantis. I think its a site LIKE Globeki Tepe, though more i think about it, Gobleki Tepe does make more sense, and the tellings of the place and people spanned for so long orally, the truth was just heavily exaggerated to the fantasy Plato wrote down. I think it would be interesting if that were true, it would show us how that story changed through time, as well as how Plato viewed the past and people of it even more. And it might teach us that hunter gatherers, at least in that area, were possibly slightly more advanced than what people thought. We went from thinking Neanderthals were dumb cavemen, only to now know they were pretty smart with language and spirituality of a sort, holding a form of funerals. It would be interesting if we could learn that hunter gatherers 12000 yrs ago were just slightly more advanced than we think now, and way more advanced than what the Greeks thought of them when Plato wrote about Atlantis.
But i also recognize that its true, this can be only be true in the gaps of our knowledge. We cant find evidence of oral tradition as easily as written, and for my theory to be true, it requires a ton of oral retellings getting mistranslated throughout those years.
Oh! But i 100% agree! Real history is much more interesting than ancient aliens lol. I just dont exactly see this one the same, only the way other people like Hanncock like to push. They werent some magical race that got their info from aliens and were more advanced than the Greeks lol. If it is real, if the people are real, they are regular people that just figured out a how to make stone buildings earlier than others, and retold so many times in a way that became the fantasy we know today. Thats it.
Because most people can't appreciate complexity, just grandeur. Complex things are only amazing to people if they put in the mental work to understand how complex it really is, and then imagine someone from the stone age actually doing all that, step by step, over hundreds or thousands of years.
Or... BAM! Gobekle Tempe magically appears one day out of nowhere! How did it get there?! Where did it come from?! Nobody knows! Since we don't know, I'll just say it was ancient super people with mental powers who levitated all the rocks into place! Isn't that amazing! ZOMG LOLOLOL amazeballs.
"it only exist in the gaps in our knowledge" is a big crux of what these folk believe down in their hearts, with or without realizing that
Flint was so well prepared. I think the only thing he could've articulated better was the way that these theories and racism connect.
The one thing that frustrated me is he didn't hone in on the point that of how unbelievable Hancock's conclusions. It was obviously implied and he did mention it but honestly I think he needed to make it clearer, especially for Hancock's fans
Flint just showed his woke bias. However he nailed the debate if you could call it that because handcock only had feels and fairytales.
there’s still a lot of work to be done in this area.
If you have to explain racism, it probably isn't racism. I'm a Hancock fan and while his stories might be fantastical, they're certainly not racist.
@@philmusson1265 you don't think it's racist to believe that the people of pre-Columbian south america could not have figured out how to stack stones without some kind of outside influence? which is what the ancient alien/atlantis idea boils down to " brown people to dumb to stack stones."
I don't even know why people indulge "debate invitations" from people who take claims that are made up out of whole cloth and then put the onus on others to positively disprove them.
Police do it all the time.
Context matters here. Debate invitations from someone who made some things up, and from someone who made some things up on a Netflix show with millions of followers who believe in a conspiracy theory are two different things. Randoms don't matter, but influencers definitely do. The youth already have a problem with authority and established ideas, so when they hear an influencer start influencing people in the other direction and nothing is done about it, well... You get to where we are today. Millions of people who listen to a podcast to and from work now believe in a claim with no evidence. So by Flint debating this guy, he's forcing Graham's audience to think a bit harder about the topic, and maybe find some evidence for it. People who make crazy claims shouldn't be listened to, but they should be debated if they have access to LITERALLY the largest podcast audience in the world.
Will more progress in fighting misinfo be made by _not_ accepting debate invitations? Misinfo spreads plenty well when credentialed academics _don't_ platform or debate misinfo-spreaders.
They need the money or they have a book to sell.
@stewartlee8858 they may try, but remember, never talk to cops (that’s what lawyers are for)
But these archaeologists never mention all the video footage we have of Atlantis from 1996 when the olympics were held there!
The biggest news here is that there's a person called "Flint Dibble" on this earth. Legendary. I need a noir film about this man immediately.
Or a band. I have three bands now: The Clem H. Fandangoes, The Fuggers of Augsburg and Flint Dibble.
His dad was an archaeologist and named him flint because of that! But I like the flintstones idea too.
😂😂😂
its all a grift in my opinion is Graham passionate yes but so are most grifters or else nobody would buy into the books, schemes , and most importantly the BOOKS for sell
Exactly, he got used to the money and clout and then there was no turning back...it's a grift
I think yes he has found his audience and it would be self destructive at least financially to do something say something else. But he decided to do this in the first place before it was so well known and spends his life travelling around and exploring. I think he was a journalist before like on war i think not sure though and just stumbled into this stuff while working and eventually it consumed him and it brought success and money. I think a true grift it when you dont have any belief or passion for it.
@@bennybenny55 When you know something is fake but you play into it and allow the money n attention to make you believe your own lies or ignore any self correction, still a grift..
@rebekahdavis5935 I don't think he thinks it's fake... but he is too intelligent to not interact with the damning evidence in sincere way. I dont know Hancocks actual believes but I think its his version of religion. Like a Christian who accepts the big bang evolution and everything can't really say anything against it but still wants to hold on to his belief no matter what. As the evidence doesn't exactly disprove the theory just makes it more and more unlikely.
Lemuria is where it's at now
Only problem is that at least Atlantis has the appeal of being an ancient invention, Lemuria is a recent one.
nahh it is in the dark side of the moon
Lemuria got nuked by Atlantis. I got evidence, it's the big giant black hole of lack of evidence
😂😂😂
Is that where Lemurs come from?
"The lost civilization I'm talking about is like a black hole, " is one of the funniest things he's ever said
Why? I mean, if he had a point at all that would be a great way to describe it.
Bro we shouldn’t even need to have this multi year conversation about this topic to understand how baseless it is. In completely lacked a logical sequence since the very beginning
Yet, here we are.
We almost have to scream vaccines don't cause autism, Atlantis wasn't real, the Earth is round, and all that. But still, the crazy train doesn't seem to stop.
I'm not a fan of Graham Hancock and I don't watch Joe Rogan or follow the other guy, but I know Atlantis enthusiasts won't stop based on one person's idea being debunked. I recall there was a Professor Santos who claimed Atlantis was in Sundaland. I started writing stories based on the idea that Atlantis is Arabia. The level of technology can range from science fiction to magical to mundane to near contemporary neolithic. Of course, if you can invoke magic or miracles, then that can always explain the lack of archeological evidence. Heck, with enough story development, one could conclude that Atlantis exists on an alternate timeline caused by a God, Science Fiction, or the Universe as a Simulation. Killed Atlantis? Oh, no no no, the lack of archeological data will open the floodgates to even more spectacular ideas.
Yeah. I even don't know who Hancock may be (the name sounds vaguely familiar but from this video he seems delusional or a sensationalist mass-scammer or both). However Atlantis is real, just not that old nor fantastic, much less underwater (it was destroyed by a huge tsunami but tsunamis don't sink landmasses except for a brief time). It is the Copper and Bronze Age civilization of Vila Nova de São Pedro (VNSP) culture of what is now Portugal, the only civilization (with fortified towns) in the whole Atlantic Ocean basin in those days (at least for what archaeology knows so far). Its capital (the barely researched Castro do Zambujal, near modern Torres Vedras) was linked to the sea by a "marine branch" of the exact length Plato said (50 stadia = 10 km roughly), which was silted at the time of the civilization's collapse (by a tsunami necessarily). They had 10 royal megalithic tombs in the area, they were very influential since its inception (pre-Bell Beaker, later also major center of Bell Beaker but surviving until well into the Late Bronze Age collapse period) and "ritual bull hunt" is practiced there to this very day.
What don't fit from Plato are: the absurd Paleolithic date, the elephants (they did import ivory anyhow, from Africa and also from Syria, where they or related peoples left a megalithic legacy in the early Bronze Age) and the mineral wealth (which was however in the nearby less civilized country of Eastern Iberia, from the Galician tin and gold to the Western Andalusian fabled Tartessian mines that even get a cameo in the Bible as the source of Solomon's wealth). What doesn't fit with the "popular" versions of the legend varies, depending on the best seller author you may read, but definitely it was not truly sunk and thus there's nothing that big to be found underwater.
@@LuisAldamiz what do you think the location of Plato's cave is?
Might help to inform yourself a bit more on the matter.
@@paulisfat8077 - WTF! Plato's cave is apparently where you live...
@@LuisAldamiz Nice try, but Atlantis, with Solomon mines and El Dorado and stuff like that, is in my backyard, not in your backyard.
@@LuDux 🤣🤣🤣
Solomon didn't have any mines: he invested in Phoenician businesses and got a nice cut from the colonial profits of Tarshish (Tartessos, a well known SW Iberian civilization of the Iron Age, which probably replaced Atlantis after the LBA destruction but at different geography). This also helps to calibrate the likely chronology of the legendary king, which can't be 9th century as Biblical scholars claim (in their literalistic idiocy) but rather 7th century BCE, when Tyre had already founded Gadir as their outpost and the first Phoenician influences arrived in South Iberia (incl. steel making, which makes the Basque word for iron, "burdin", probably derived from the Canaanite one "berzel").
Which is your backyard? There were no other civilizations in the whole Atlantic Ocean basin (that we know of) in those Bronze Age dates.
It was great to see the difference in an expert presenting academic research vs pseudoarcheology and speculation
It’s a shame flint lies about the data
The sad part is that Hancocks supporters won't acknowledge that he was exposed.
They will just say that Flint "wasn't willing to listen".
if you look at the comments in the joe rogan video they are all character attacks on Flint, they have no interest in engaging with evidence that does not support their ideas.
That definitely parallels the religion debate. Faith is what people have in the absence of evidence.
Flint does nothing but add some weak denial to everything
I used to be a hancock fan and I can safely say it's comfier for people to believe some fairytales are true because it gives you a sense of wonder and whimsy which is lacking in the modern world. I don't blame them, I just think it's a misplaced avenue for it.
@@josephjanitorius797lol. Go read aquinas.
Graham is terrible at debating! He gets way too sensitive and fails to challenge easy targets. Flint's opening referenced 68,000 unexplored Mayan sites uncovered with Lidar. Graham doesn't even touch on this, but lack of exploration was his entire premise (besides whining). Then he goes in on Bimini Road which is wholly unconvincing. The YDIH is intriguing. Flint didn't feel comfortable with the topic. Graham could've dunked on him but he drifted back into whining. It was embarrassing. He should retire
Now you are going to tell me that Unicorns are not real.....i said sarcastically. FYI I was a fan of Graham for a short time. I guess because he was talking about things no one else was talking about, like Gobekli Tepe. But he is a story teller, an investigative journalist, and knows how to sell books. I like to read and listen to scientist, historians and archeologist, not story tellers.
Unicorns are real. They live in Africa, and we typically call them rhinoceros.
I like to listen to storytellers who are upfront about being storytellers.
There's a UA-cam video from the guy leading the excavation of Gobekli Tepe. Well worth a watch. I think not too many archeologists talked about it previously because so little was known. Very little of the site has been excavated Even today, but he has plenty of interesting stuff to talk about.
Elasmotherium? They were real.
@gregcollins7 Don't ya wish there was a symbol like the question mark that represented sarcasm? !:- )
Not a currently a Hancock fan but I loved his work back when the 2nd or 3rd JRE came out. Nowadays I'm an Archaeology student so firstly I have alot to thank GH for for sending me down this path, even if his ideas aren't all that. I thought Dibble represented Archaeolpgy fantastically, great evidence, great presentation. Graham likewise did a good job at always making room for skeptiscism, but I think even Joe was coming round to the fact there that theres absolutely zero half solid evidence for the lost civilisation, and we have infact done enough archaeolpgy to a point we'd expect to see SOMETHING. Thanks to Flint and Stefan and the rest of the Archaeological community for ypue contributions x
Atlantis is dead ... well until Graham Hancock's next book tour. When I was in college, it was The Chariots Of The Gods, by Erich von Däniken, that was making the rounds. And by making the rounds, I mean there was a HUGE event held on our campus in the gymnasium for his presentation. Lots of people bought the books and "believed" in the crap. And it wasn't just my university, he was seemingly at many Universities..
Anyway, I always get amused and angry at the same time when these wild theories get passed around.
My understanding is that Atlantis was a fable about national hubris, but what it became was modern grifter hubris
I'm sure any elements of truth it may have became greatly exaggerated through any retellings.
@@Forge366this is my thinking as well. I believe there was a place, but yea, like a game of telephone, through thousands of years of retelling orally, the truth is exaggerated heavily into the fantasy Plato wrote down.
From early adulthood, I started reading books by Erich Von Daniken and loved Graham’s early books where he said that He differed because he followed the evidence to see where it led. Rather than deciding to find evidence to fit a theory. I started to fall out of love with him when he decided that Zawi Hawass was deliberately concealing evidence about a chamber under the Sphinx and further, when my Son pointed me to your Channel after Hancock’s Netflix programme. Graham speaks to a need to believe in something beyond our understanding. Unfortunately, he has fallen into the same trap as Von Daniken!
So your sons a muppet who buys into archeological lies. Anyone with half an interest in the lost civilisation theory was laughing at the amount of lies flint told about the data. Have a look at the lead spikes in the ice core data going back tens of thousands of years it fairly easy to find it’s a shame flint lied about it
The Atlantis believers will never let it go. Bit like the fellow who claims that a mound of dirt in Turkey is the remains of Noah's Ark.
The best part is Hancock's argument that since "mainstream archaeology" has only explored 5% of the continental shelve coast, they can't deny the existence of an ancient technological civilisation until they "finish exploring" to a 100%.
That's not how science works, Hanky. But again, what would you know of that...
The part where Joe learned that Hancock deceptively edited a headline to appear as incendiary as possible was perhaps my favorite moment.
He didn’t edit a headline he extracted a comment and put it top of the page. There was nothing edited about it. Could be worse though you could be flint dibble the man who’s lies about the lead data in ice cores and the fact we have evidence of plants being domesticated gone back to being wild to be redomesticated again. Seems you like to lie just like flint
yeh but he didn't, he literally said it wasn't the headline.
@@thebobman69 Okay let's say I had to put together a presentation where I am trying to show how X person is writing and saying malicious things about me. I then include a slide that appears to look like an article written by X person amongst other slides which are actual papers X person wrote, and in the fabricated article I gave it the most derogatory headline I could imagine. Then I show the presentation and only when someone asks me to clarify if X person really wrote it I admit they didn't. Would that not be dishonest? Lying by omission at the very least? If Joe hadn't called Hancock out do you think he would've said oh by the way I made this headline up? Hancock is a writer and journalist, he should know how bad that looks.
@@1guysdumbopinion669 he literally said it was a quote, that's literally the first thing he said.
wow he made a slide and highlighted the thing he wanted highlight?? no way! arrest him.
try harder to defend flints censor attempts, the amout of bias and echo chamber , and lack of cognitive capabilities in here is shocking.
@@thebobman69 Quote "Flint and his colleagues have really created a huge fuss in the media about me this is just a small example. Graham Hancock loves Satan the most!" Graham Hancock quickly switches to the next slide. Joe gets him to rewind it and proceeds to grill him on it. My bad for thinking it was a headline and not the title of a UA-cam video I misremembered that but the point still stands that that was a ridiculous inclusion by Hancock as it had nothing to do with Flint at all. I agree that some of what Flint and others have said about Hancock is poorly worded but Hancock need only use their words to make his case not this. Had he done that I would've agreed with Hancock on this point.
Stefan just seems so huggable! 😆 But that aside, it’s refreshing to hear such rationality in a sea of conspiratorial thinkers (UA-cam). I love this channel! 😁
Hancock reminds me of myself as a kid, taking my own personal journey to understanding as representative of the collective journey of mankind. It's a fundamentally self-centered view of the world that defines "I don't know" the same as "WE don't know."
I don't need aliens, gods, or supreme civilizations, to use a rock....
Hancock fans will just parrot whatever he says. It's far easier to follow someone who claims to know and tells a fascinating story than to do the volumes of research it would take to actually know the information yourself. For anyone who is interested in the information and seeking more information than you can find on this incredible channel here are a few other channels to watch: Ancient Americas, History with Cy, North 02. North 02 actually deals the most with ancient humans before the modern food farming revolution in the last 10k years and that story is extremely fascinating and you can learn a lot from that channel that will help you dispel the myth of alternate history if you're caught in the spell of Hancock like I used to be.
Not to sour the mood, but most people who listen Joe Rogan's podcast are not going to take away the same conclusions you did. I am not by any means discounting the efforts of Flint Dibble or any other professional who gives a vigorous defense of the epistemology of our field. It is important work. But it is perhaps more important to provide entertaining, engaging, and accessible content for archaeology to the public.
Most people who go down the pseudo-archaeology rabbit hole, perhaps more than other pseudosciences, do so out of a genuine interest in the past. In my humble opinion, the best way to fight people like Mr. Hancock is by showing the wonder of what we do while also teaching them the how and why. Thank you for providing some of the best archaeology and paleoanthropology content on this platform! ✌️
Glancing through the UA-cam comments and some stuff on Reddit, it did appear a few people had reassessed their belief in Hancock's "ideas." But, overall, it appeared a larger percentage doubled down in their beliefs. There was lots of talk about Dibble's attire, size of his hands, etc, real silly stuff.
@@Lee-bv6iv I would absolutely love to see their opinions of archaeologists upon seeing a bunch of crusty shovel bums who just got back from the field.
People simply have to learn that science doesn't exist for their amusement. It has no obligation to be funny or even interesting.
@@Lee-bv6ivwhenever someone has to resort to ad hominem attacks, you know they’ve lost.
Not all, but some. Those that are diehard fans will be diehard fans. The people in the middle are the key.
The ancient civilization of Atlantis was so advanced that it was... biodegradable. I found the secret proof hidden in my compost !
But, but, but ... Aquaman, Lori Lemaris, Namor, Namorita, etc. Are you telling me that decades of comic book stories were lies!?
I've always thought the Atlantis folklore was an amalgamation of handed down stories about real observations coming after sea levels started rising.
my thought was just that it was a slightly more advanced civilization. Like (for a silly example) if the neighbors have put shells on sticks, inventing spoons, and you still just have shells, you are gonna see the neighbor as more advanced.
It sounds like Russel's Teapot argument saying we haven't looked everywhere.
Where are the other 64 comments? Weird.
They are don't existing.
the atlantians have deleted them
UA-cam never posts replies real-time. At the time of my watching this, this video is 11 minutes old with 97 comments and only 20 showing. This happens on every video. It's not some Atlantis sleeper cell censoring information, I promise.
Tap tap tap hello? Is this thing on? tap tap
Bots being blocked probably
Loved every second watching Graham get dismantled. You can hear his voice change when he knows he's lost
That's called archaeological puberty.
You must have liked the dibble ohh I read but can’t provide any citations part then. Here’s some evidence here’s some lies, all dibble done was dismantle he him they she self
I really dunno how people can genuinely believe in Atlantis when we literally have only ONE source for it's existence in which it is used as a METAPHOR to illustrate a philosophical point in a THEORETICAL debate between two heavily fictionalised characters invented by Plato.
Congratulations on the Rogan shout out! Wooo! Well deserved.
Flint really crushed it too.
really? have you analyzed every grain of sand in the Sahara? how many grains of sand have been analyzed? have you been there? /s
Ay! You're here
Dood. Do you say Abrasax or Abraxas? Collecting votes.
No he didn't. Not at all. Weakest debater I have ever heard.
*Another big problem* with the Atlantis idea is that there would have to have been societies that lead up to Atlantis, and there is no evidence for those, either.
great point
Almost as if we have discovered only 5% of what's in front of us.
@@kageminato2127 And that 5% points away from Atlantis. It doesn’t make sense to believe in things because there might be evidence for them someday. You would have to believe in contradictory positions because something could be proven true or proven false.
Plato was fairly clear that he invented Atlantis as a metaphor.
Are you aware of any of the details Plato mentioned?
@@scienceexplains302 Did you listen to the episode at all? Graham brought up multiple hypotheses' for what else that 5% points towards, not even related to Atlantis. In fact, compared to the 4-hour episode, they barely talked about Atlantis. How did Flint counter those other hypotheses that raise reasonable questions? He laughed. Weak. His dad's work didn't dispute anything Graham said. Listen to the episode in its entirety instead of watching a 10-minute clip that this youtuber would know get the most clicks. I believe in your attention-span, you got this.
@@kageminato2127 I have heard Hancock elsewhere. It’s all confirmation bias and imagination.
While I understand that a debate doesn't mean that people will suddenly realise about what is true or not, I gotta say that it is incredible satisfying to see in real time how the gaps where gods hide from their inexistence reduce and disappear.
Saw the podcast in my recommended and thought "the other guy" besides Graham would be another supporter like Randall Carlson. But now that I now it was an actual debate I might actually wanna listen to it.
I enjoy Hancock and i enjoy learning more orthodox perspectives. I really appreciate your style in challenging these alternative views of history and prehistory. Thanks for focusing on facts and not attacking the messengers.
My favorite part is when the sociologist says the archeologist is in the hot seat😂😂😂
I absolutely love the “but archeologists aren’t looking” argument, because it would be career making to find something.
I mean there are thousands of undiscovered pyramids sooo theres that
I happened to watch Bethany Hughes BBC documentary on this. She convinced me that Plato's Atlantis reflected distant memories of an eruption of Santorini.
They touched on Atlantis for like 5 seconds lol. They never really debated it nor has he said it existed for sure
Exactly , Atlantis lives and will continue to live in the greatest minds of our time and civilization, even if it takes thousand or millions of years to find the proof
@@johnanderson6119 yeah. I find that with grahams or Randall carlsons ideas, people tend to take them to the most extreme form of them, then debunk that.
Clickbait video. Meant for people with short attention spans that can't intake 4-hours but are only interested in following the narrative, and think a biased 10 minute video covers the whole debate. Brain rot.
Didn’t know about it, but enjoyed the video and trust your assessment after following you for years.
You’re my go to ape in matters of archeology and related areas.
Considering Hancock is a fiction writer I don't expect science-based arguments from him.
"The discussion was rigged. And my crowds were MUCH bigger."
Someone much crazier and more dangerous than Graham!
I think the idea is based on what was remembered of Thera and Crete. When a story is told enough times it tends to take on a life of it's own.
I think Plato just made it up. There is precisely zero evidence of any such myth existing in Greece before Plato wrote it.
Milo ( the other one - 1st name, YT = miniminuteman) already took Hancocks garbage apart over several YT episodes and yet Hancock still turns up for more ....
From my understanding, Atlantis was a story told to Socrates, which some people question if he actually existed, since only Plato mentioned him.
Thank you for a calm and considerate breakdown of this “debate”. I have been fascinated by this discussion for years and am just open to how it plays out. I appreciated the number of sites archeologists have combed through, while I think there is a strong argument to keep looking at sites around 12k-50k years ago to better understand what progress preceded the Younger Dryas events.
I liked the facts about findings in ice cores reflecting metal working around the world. This closes some ideas of what might have been going on, but also leaves room for other approaches for progress in societies.
Plant and animal domestication is fascinating too. This is an area where I would like to learn more about how it interacts with the YDB. Genetic traits and markers could possibly be “scrubbed” from the record, but it’s to complex of a process to assume we can singularly determine what humans were doing around the world.
Skepticism is easier than proof, but it also helps us keep the door open to new discoveries.
My hope is that we keep an open mind and allow other people to consider, research, and share ideas without condemning those we disagree with. Disagreeing with how we express ourselves is also needed for advancement, so I’m sorry this interaction deteriorated at times.
Graham wants every inch of the earth to be excavated for his mega civilisation to be found
Open each and every cupboard to disprove Narnia exited.
But why does Atlantis have to be real? Why can’t it stay as satire of ancient Athens?
Stefan, your content is strong as you present it but would really love to see you give a long format deep dive into some topics. Summaries are good but really leave lots up in the air about the topics. Longer, more in depth interviews. Debates analyzed in relation to evidence. Emerging discoveries and their effect on standing hypotheses and theories. Pretty much what you do, but with more topical substance and evidence analysis. Pleeeeze! Stream it and take the chats/stickers!
One additional thing. Gobekli Tepe was built over thousands of years, not in a single go. Period.
Still excavating apparently.
If I'm not mistaken, flint dibbles were one of the earliest agricultural tools.
Great again. I was really happy to see flint mention you in the end.
Would love to see you on the jre!
I can't believe Stefan Milo personally sunk the city of Atlantis
When I was younger I soaked all of this nonsence up, it was a fascinating idea. When I learned what your ancient ancestors were able to accomplish and forgot all about Hancock,Von Danikin and Atlantis 😊
Atlantis is dead. So is Elvis.
Since c. 1050 BCE.
Elvis lives 😂
long live The King.
Elvis lives in our hearts ❤️
That left me All Shook Up.
And here's the thing, for him to say that there's no evidence of an ancient advanced civilization as of right now from all that has been studied... Really ignores the fact that there have been hundreds of tens of thousands pf digs, across the globe, throughout history...
In understanding probability, there would have been *something* by now.
To me, at this point, saying the evidence of an ancient civilization is that we haven't searched the entire globe yet may as well be applied to mythical creatures while we're at it, like a unicorn or the easter bunny.
It was archeology of the gaps
Edit: you made the comment after I commented . I loved his passion for seeds
If Atlantis is dead, where is flight MH 370? 🤔🥴🇬🇧🌈♥️
It seems safe to say that MH 370 is dead by now.
bottom of southern ocean
Only the James Webb Telescope knows for sure.
@@norml.hugh-mann Perhaps on Mount Ararat, next to The Ark.
you are flippin right on all accounts!
Flint in 4 hours provided more valuable, fact-based educational material than Graham's entire publishing history, including his video presentations.
He was quite clearly referring to the archeological works that Dibble presented, conceding that those specific examples provided show no evidence of an earlier civilization. He was not saying there is not evidence ELSEWHERE. For fucks sake. How ridiculous.
Where is the evidence?
@@keithklassen5320 On the Giza plateau, looking right back at you.
@@keithklassen5320 Can you read?
Exactly, most of these people commenting didn't even listen to the full episode. Attention span can only last for 10 minutes, so they listen to a short clip with barely any context from a 4-hour pod and base their opinions off of that. They barely even talked about Atlantis in the episode if you listen to the entire stream.
What always struck me is despite the relatively small "evidence" for Atlantic. None of the "experts" have read it.
If they had they would know it was at war with Athens at the time of its demise. So don't waste time searching for Atlantis, just do Archaeology at Athens which was also an "advanced" civilisation.
Except of course it wasn't and the earliest settlements are minor and date to thousands of years later.
Exactly. Plato even offers actual landmarks for reference in his description of ancient-ancient Athens, some of which still exist today.
Atlantis being real is a dumb idea that never made sense. I've never understood why anyone would even want to believe it!
Everyone loves superhero stories! Atlanteans were tall and good looking and built random mega structures for batteries, or so they say. The most random super heroes in existence. They didn’t even bring food or invent medicine for the hunter gatherers they came to help.
@@raina4732 All of that stuff was made up centuries if not millennia after Plato originally came up with the idea of Atlantis. And, um, have you ever heard the song "Atlantis" by Donovan? It completely contradicts the last sentence of what you just said, lol.
I don’t see the need of a lost advanced civilization to explain human culture evolution. Atlantis is Plato’s tale based on the Thera Island colapse which could have lived in the minds of the people of Antiquity for many centuries
My personal theory is that the 'missing' bit of the Atlantis story is linguistic, not archaeological. The 'civilization' might be a mistranslation of 'major city' and the myth is about any of the many Mediterranean cities completely or partially underwater following tectonic events. It could be Alexandria, or Santorini, or Pavlopetri, or composite of all the cities that have succumbed to the major subduction zone that is the Mediterranean.
Graham certainly underestimated his opponent and probably never had this serious in dept push back on his theories before
Flint brought nothing but his dad's work and nervous laughter. He did not disprove a single thing Graham said. We won't watch the episode though, right? Just a 10-minute clip talking about contextual information in a 4 hour podcast. Oh yeah, he so underestimated the weakest person he's debated yet. There was 0 pushback, Flint was there to show his dad's work. That's it.
@@kageminato2127 aha, a believer, well believe whatever you want.
@@henkgertlenten I actually don't believe in Atlantis, and they barely talked about it on the podcast compared to the 4 hours total. My statement still stands true. Graham brought many other subjects that raised interesting and reasonable questions, not even related to Atlantis, and Flint could not debate it. Your attitude is just like Flint's, it's lazy. Always reading into context that's not there because it's easy. Read a book, honestly.