Ubertis Russian Topbreak Revolver.mov
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2024
- In this video we'll shoot the Uberti New Model Russian Top Break revolver. This is a modern made replica of Smith and Wesson's No. 3 New Model Russian revolver from the nineteenth century. The originals were in .44 Russian caliber, however, this replica is in .45 Colt.
the spur was used for the same reason they were used on european dueling pistols, lefaucheaux revolvers, vetterli rifles, german hunting arms, etc etc etc, for improved grip. some people who arent used to this find it uncomfortable, but many in europe preferred it
The best explanation that I've heard for the trigger guard spur is that the Russian cavalry (The Cossacks) traditionally carried their pistols tucked into a waist sash instead of a western style gun belt. The spur was to keep the pistol (which is heavy) from slipping through the waist sash.
This was an expensive gun to test. During the range test for the article I was running various loads over the chronograph. I had shot Black Hills factory ammo on paper but not my B-P loads. As it turned out, the much faster B-P loads shot two inches lower than the B-H cowboy loads. Low enough to blast the first B-P round right into the face of my chronograph.
The spur helps facilitate cocking the revolver. Especially in the old style single handed operation.
Why the Russians decided to replace this with the Nagant will be a mystery to the end of time.
I have one of these and it's fun because of its history and just general "unusual-ness". I only shoot it with "cowboy" loads made to replicate black powder ballistics and even so the felt recoil is substantial because of the funky shape of the grip but not to the point that I can't enjoy it. It is indeed hard to reach the hammer for cocking and the rear sight is just ridiculously small to the point that it's hardly useful. I suspect the military users of this mostly pointed it rather than aiming as we think of it. It was intended primarily for cavalry and I can tell you from experience that true aiming just isn't something you do from a moving horse so it's likely the sights were pretty much an afterthought. Like the Colts of the era, it lacks a transfer bar safety and isn't safe when carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.
I've heard/read several explanations for the hook on the trigger guard and only two of them seem plausible to me. First, however, I'll rule out two of the common ideas. It was not so that you could put your middle finger over the hook when you fired it. Anyone who believes that has never tried it. Removing your middle finger from the grip reduces your grip strength to the point that recoil goes from sharp to almost-unmanageable. It's also not for a finger of the off hand. First, two hands on the revolver just wasn't a thing in the 19th century. Second, a cavalryman's off hand already has a job holding the reins. The first idea I find plausible is that it was to help keep the revolver from slipping out when it was stuck into a sash or belt. I've tried that and it does seem to help a little. Maybe not enough to mean much if you're very active but maybe enough for the Russian army to think they needed it. The second idea is that it was meant to deflect saber cuts. If you charge into a melee with your revolver in hand and empty it, you may find yourself facing an opponent armed with a saber before you can transition to your own. Your natural reflex when attacked with a saber cut will be to parry it with the object in your strong hand; i.e., your revolver. The hook doesn't have to be big enough or curved enough to actually catch the opponent's saber, it just has to be enough to deflect it from your fingers. I've tried this too against a plastic sword and it does seem to work most of the time.
All in all, it's a very cool and fun revolver and I enjoy it. I first thought I'd use it in cavalry/mounted shooting competition but it's just a little too slow to cock for that. Someday I'll save up my pennies for a Schofield replica. It's easier to cock and the sights are a bit less diminutive. I wish the Schofield came with that cool hook on the trigger guard, though. ;-)
That's a beautiful revolver. Would love to have one of these.
I've wanted one of the S&W top breaks for years but never had the budget available. Too many other guns got in the way! ;)
I'm not a competition shooter but I did happen to be present one morning during a fast draw match (regionals!) here in the Phoenix area and it was a jaw dropping performance. These cats are just unreal! Near record breaking times with nary a miss. I can *well* imagine how Evil Roy woulda done around a course! I'd just embarrass myself. :)
I got to handle one of these at the Uberti display at the NRA Houston event 2013. Magnificent.
The spur was added in order to make cocking easier as there is a hump added on the grip
Great video. The S&W Russian was the first handgun to catch my eye when I was 5 years old (or so) and saw the pictures of one in a Spanish gun magazine called "Armas". I wanted one so bad! I never did get the S&W, but I still have the magazine.
Thanks for making this vid
You owe it to yourself to find a used one or at least get a used common Uberti version.
@@bertroost1675 you’re right
Con la lincencia AE puedes guiar esta arma. Mirate la normativa, la licencia AE permita guiar armas posteriores a 1890, no tienes limite en el numero de armas, etc… realmente es muy permisiva y los Schofield y Russian entran dentro de esa categoria.
@@Mr.Zariguello en que pais?
@@tafino España
I just got to handle this gun at the Houston NRA convention in the Uberti display. I found it was quite easy to cock when you used the middle finger in the spur. The Russians operated these guns in really cold weather an I think they may have been designed to Russian conditions, but it is a magnificent piece of history and I would love to own on. If I could afford an "old west" gun, this is the one I would want as it is magnificent in it's appearance.
Wow I enjoyed this video! This top break is beautiful! I never saw one in nickel finish, a new reproduction that is. I just love old break top revolvers sadly not many are to be found.
@GunnerGatlin It might. I didn't shoot the cowboy special, but I did shoot Schofields during the accuracy testing session. .45 Colts actually shot smaller groups.
That's a beautiful revolver
I love that Smith & Wesson.
@BRR I was shooting one-inch groups at 15 yards with a two hand hold on this gun.
I cannot believe i haven't seen this before. WOW!
The Smith & Wesson ones had a half cock notch for loading and unlocking the action, they also had a retention latch near the hinge for releasing the cylinder.
Thanks for showing the ejector.
@duelist1954 - The C45S should help in recoil management as well. I really liked the report that the Russian didn't bind up using BP as I have heard so many reports of the Schofield doing so on the Wire. These guns are style point getters for sure ~ Thanks again Mike.
I have had one Russian and two Schofields reproductions all in 45LC and all three shot left. One of the Schofields popped open upon firing some times but it was an early reproduction. I sold them all after a bit. I don't like the way the cylinder will falls the the bottom on half cock if it only has one or two rounds in it. I still love the break top because they are part of the old west. Thanks for another great video.
Good one!
I always thought “Evil Roy” was supposed to be Roy Rogers’ evil clone or something
Beautiful piece of gear.
I believe that is the case. I've only tried one of these once, but in my experience it really does give extra stability when shooting two-handed (which you should, but normally don't feel right with an old west revolver).
That is a really beautiful gun !!
Mike, I have an original 38 cal. Smith & Wesson model 2, 2nd pattern and I could not figure out how to remove the cylinder until I watched your video. The part about removing the top latch. I noticed a small catch on the spring/latch that holds the cylinder in place. I pull the latch up and then the cylinder unscrews a few turns and pulls right off. That will come in handy for cleaning black powder. Thanks very much. PS: It is not the Baby Russian, but the next model. Looks similar and nickle plated
Because it is easy to get it a little mis-aligned and get the chamber beyond the bolt stop. then you have to rotate it all the way around to get the empty chamber under the hammer. It is better to stop short than to go too far.
First was the American model in .44 American from 1869 until 1872, then the various Russian models in .44 Russian from 1872 until 1878. Concurrent with the Russians the Schofields were made from 1875 until 1877. In 1878 the New Model No. 3 came out and it stayed in production until 1912.
Well actually the New Model No 3 was catalogued , and shipped until 1912 . The actual production was completed, and production equipment subsequently repurposed in 1898 , and the factory inventory lasted for another 14yrs .
In the US , this is significant , as all original No 3 are thereby considered Antique .
The mysterious little spur on the trigger guard is for enhanced stability when firing from horseback. Wrap your middle finger around the spur when firing.
Yes. they are built to modern standards
The irony is after this they went to the Nagant which was a loading gate revolver and six times slower to reload...
And a more anemic round at that
I think maybe the spur on the trigger guard was to help keep the gun steady with your middle finger as your thumb navigates the hump en route to the hammer.
Hmm, how's this for a thought? Right hand holds the revolver as usual, with the left hand keeping the pointer finger over the trigger guard and the middle finger over the trigger guard spur, along with the thumb of the left hand being used to cock the hammer. That's how I shoot single/double action revolvers usually, as soon as the round goes off and I feel the recoil, my left thumb comes up and flicks the hammer back for a nice single action trigger pull.
Looks like it might be feasible, however I never handled that revolver of course so I don't know if it's comfortable to do so. I think that'd be the way I would do it though. Pointer and middle finger of the left hand helps control the recoil while the left thumb pops up after every shot to haul that hammer back. The only thing the right hand is doing is holding the revolver and pulling the trigger. Just thinking out loud :P
I've had a lot of guns in my life, but never a #3 .44 Russian. I came across a couple blued Uberti's on Gunbroker recently at pretty decent prices and jumped on them. Man, what a PITA to shoot Duelist or Gunfighter style... I love it! The hammer block engages on one as soon as the hammer is started back, but on the other one, it doesn't move up to block the hammer until nearly full-cock, so on one, I can pull the hammer out of half cock and let it down, while the other has to be brought to full cock first before it will go all the way down. It's a quick, simple fix, but I won't discuss that here.
@mausercal65 I've talked to the folks a M-H and met with them during the 2011 SHOT Show...now we'll see if they can deliver.
Thank you, really like your organized, positive, no BS, well narrated videos. And you dress very well for the presentation. These other guys with T-shirts just don't understand that these presentations are much more pleasant with a little class. I have a fake SW American (for wall hanging and living room holding it's great) but I would love to shoot one of these SW replica top breaks. I did handle a real .44 American once and an original SAA and darned if they don't feel lighter than the replicas (I did handle the Uberti Russian at the NRA show,.are the new ones made a bit larger (more robust/) and hence heavier?
Not more robust, but the replicas have a slightly longer cylinder.
hoodoo2001 i
When they bring out a no. 3 first model with 8" barrel I am all in. Neither the Schofield or the new model No. 3 quite fits my bill.
@fwi1298 That is all true for modern shooters, but the Russians used these pistols to outfit their Cossack cavalry, and you don't shoot with two hands during a cavalry charge.
My theory for the spur is it for your off hand. When holding the revolver with two hands you can place your index finger on it. Maybe it adds more stability against recoil? If you have this revolver still, or who ever reading this, try it and get back to me please.
That's always been my assumption from the first time I saw one of these revolvers. It just seems logical.
I have one of those thats blued. I actually ground off the spur. Mine shoots to point of aim. I love mine!!
Just think what would have happen if the speed loader was invented at the same time as these S&W. Colt would have been in trouble.
I saw a new blued one in it's box in a police supply store. A (non Russian model). Over $1,200 - what you have to trade is always so so to them. Their stuff is gold.
Oh no! You must've been so ticked off, when that black powder round hit your chronograph!
As long as it is a SAMMI spec factory load, you'll be fine.
Yes, .44 Russian is noticeably milder.
I used to have a pietta 1858 remington style new model army .36 caliber police revolver and it also hit way to the left like this gun. I had to aim about 3 inches to the right of the target to hit and even then my groups was very scattered
Both my Russian and my Schofield did not like Back Powder and fouled pretty fast. I sold the Russian and traded the Schofield for an 1873 Rifle. I do plan to replace the Schofield soon. I wish Uberti made a Russian No.3 new Model without the hump and trigger spur.
@snoozer987 I wasn't happy. But, I manage to shoot a chrony every few years. It is easier than you think, though it usually happens with C&B pistols that shoot way off of POA. I shot over 11,000 rounds last year and about 1,00 of them were over the chrony...law of averages, I guess.
I love the Russian model! I've always wanted one.. it would look great with my old nickel plated break top Iver Johnson 38s&w
I wonder when Smith & Wesson switched over to the counter-clockwise rotation. My circa 1898-1899 S&W Safety Hammerless also has the older clockwise rotation.
That's cool! I bet The Cowboy 45 Special would be ideal for this gun!
Thanks for the video. I really liked the bad guy's view. That's not too common in the youtubes.
Like you say, everyone has a theory about that spur on the bottom of the trigger guard. Having just seen your video on the 1866 remington revolving carbine, perhaps its there for two handed shooting? Have you tried that? Would it make a difference? I don't know. I'd rather have the Mod 3 or the Schofield personally.
BWT12554 that’s what I was thinking, also would make sense as the hammer would be easier to cock with the left hand (assuming the shooter is right handed)
I've tried it and I'm highly skeptical that it was intended for that. For one thing, shooting with two hands just wasn't done in the 19th century. A handful of guys may have done it but it was by no means the usual method and armies didn't teach it. Also, for a cavalry arm that would be entirely useless since the off hand held the reins and was being used to control the horse. Lastly, at least in my experience putting a finger of the off hand on the hook isn't particularly comfortable and doesn't give as much improvement in control as just using a more normal two-handed grip. I think it was either to keep it from slipping out when shoved into a belt or to help deflect saber cuts or both.
I watched a shooter with the old style and a holster not meant for it. When he holstered the pistol the holster pushed on the top latch. When he drew the gun, the barrel caught the edge of the holster, the gun opened fully and dumped all of his ammo on the ground. He had the most confused look.
I just got one like you are shooting. However, I also just had shoulder surgery and haven't shot it yet.
Hey this video was cool! Keep it up.mov
And to think they abandoned this very nice design, for the 1895 Nagant revolver, I don't get it.
Have you seen the new Merwin & Hulbert revolvers coming out of Wyoming ? Great vidieo.
What!!! Really??
Lou Panella there was a company that was taking preorders for revolvers several years ago but they never managed to actually get production going . It would have been great had they succeeded.
mausercal65 thank for letting me know. Yes it would have been great! M&H is indeed a incredible piece of machinery!
I know this is an old video but Mae over at C&Rsenal shoots the Russian model (Primer 067) . she has no trouble with the trigger guard spur and has no problem thumb cocking the #3. i'm a longtime sub and thought you might appreciate the info.
I have been told that s and w pattern revolver in 45 LC have a hard time shooting black powder because when they lengthened the cylinder most replicas didn't include or messed with the relationship with the gas collar, A part that I have no idea even existed, can you please explain what they meant ?
It's cool to see the russians basing the MP-412 REX on the Model 3 with it being a break action, if only they actually put it into full production
Interesting. I have one of the 1884 European military copies of the S&W 1883 DA Frontier version in 44 Russian. I am noting that by then, at least in the European clones of the era, there was a rebounding hammer so all 6 rounds could be loaded.
my uncle found a pistol like this 20 years ago when he was working at a home he found it in the wall but it was rusted and damaged to much :/
I’d love one of the S&W top breaks but mostly shoot black powder and heard the No. 3 repro doesn’t work well with fouling, I haven’t heard anything about the Russian so I haven’t bought either yet
If 1) it were not plated and 2) it were not a T&E gun: you could gently file the inside right edge of the rear sight notch. That would shift the center-point of aim to the right without potentially damaging the front sight blade, especially since the rear sight is a drop in part - unlike the front blade which is permanently attached to the barrel.
Mike it looks to me that it did not appear that the grip design did not look to comfortable thus affecting accuracy. Do you think holding this pistol with a two handed grip would possibly help? Great video.
I expect in order to keep the cost "relatively" low. Uberti has somewhat generalized the different models. Sad for historical accuracy nuts, but not a big deal for shooters.
I have this model and find the trigger guard sprue useful for resting my right index finger on it, doing a two handed shot. So being right handed, I hold the grip with my right hand and then wrap my left hand around it, resting my left index finger on the sprue. Works great. You don't sound like you like this revolver very much ?
I do not know if they loaded five or six.
question: Could that sight picture be improved by filing the inside of the rear notch site making it shoot more to the right?
Mike, I seen a photo of the rear sight that looked like it was filed and shimmed. We had many discussions of what that was. Could it have been to correct sighting issues? (I believe the photo was in a coffee table book about Cody museum guns)
Probably
Like when the thump latch goes forward. Mine goes backwards and will break the action when it goes into a holster
Mike, have you fired this pistol with gloves on? The Russian tended to wear gloves much more than US users. Looks like the pistol would be more comfortable to shoot with gauntlet type gloves.
Awesome
Will the scew that goes through the side plate into the hammer from this gun fit a Russian made original? Or what is the thread pitch on the side plate screws?
This seems to handle black powder pretty well
do you think it is better to not have the "hump back" and spur beneith the trigger gaurd than this configuration?
@jonboat2 I'll have to research that. *LOL*
I think that OasisofSpirit is 100% correct about the double handed grip aid provided by the spur. After all these revolvers were purchased for the Russian Artillery as well as the Cavalry and the gunners would not use the revolver in one handed skirmishing fire from a horse, but rather as a more precise defensive weapon, most likely with a two handed grip.
Mike, is this revolver able to fire full on, modern, hard hitting, smokeless kickass ammunition? Or is it restricted to cowboy loads? Basically if I go into a shop and ask for 45lc will I need to scrutinize what exactly I'm firing or is it up for anything?
So this particular gun didn't bind at all? Was there any particular reason for that (ie. is there some kind of difference between the Russian and the Schofield)?
Trum4n1208 Most New Model No 3's are good with fouling. They have a better gas deflector on the end of the cylinder than earlier models
duelist1954 Hi Mike can you tell me if you have ever shot one of these in 44 Russian and if you could please make a video of a 44 Russian top break / odd calibers of the west.
Note: "Between roughly 1880 and 1895, the term "automatic revolver" was used for top-break revolvers that automatically ejected spent rounds when opened."
BMT Mooning Tool: /watch?v=Eou7TQp7yrY
TK Custom Precision-Machined Revolver Moon Clip Conversions: /watch?v=lYLeTqmLFpE
sure
This may be a dumb question, but I haven't been able to find an answer to it online. Uberti is still making the Russian model in .44 Russian. Is it possible to fire .44 Special in the .44 Russian revolver?
No, but the reverse works. The .44 Spl is about .1" longer than the .44 Russian.
I'm translating what he said to mean that if you shorten the .44 special cases a .1 inch you can reload them for a .44 Russian. Just avoid hot loads and I'd avoid black powder.
@Niemand101010 That made me chuckle, but honestly, Evil Roy could beat me shooting with his toes, even if he stopped mid-stage for lunch.
This replica is a hybrid, the barrel underlug is not correct.
Orginals are longer , the only model with a short underlug was trhe NM#3
And the NM#3 replica by Uberti/ Beretta also has some wrong details.
It appeared as though your replica 45 Colt was propelled by black powder. Can this weapon be fired with factory modern smokeless powder?
Mike, was this made before the Scofield??? If so in what order were the three main topbreak S&W revolvers in?
Can you buy replacement parts?
I've got an original S&W it needs a couple of new parts.
VTI Gun Parts, but I don"t know if the replica parts will fit an original S&W
My Uberti Russians have a longer arbor housing than yours. Love mine.
Sir can you do a video on H&R break top .38 S&W please
In terms of top break revolvers I so so wish the REX had a chance to shine. Even if it was heavy in the front it would be nice to see a more uniquely shaped top break in the world. Would have been chambered in .357 and .38. I know the times were different with almost a 100 year difference between the original run of this and when the REX was designed (1870's and 1990's respectively I think?) but still a damn shame.
is it possible to grip it with your middle finger on the trigger guard spur?
Also, if I were to take this to a gunsmith and have the back of the cylinder beveled down, can I fire .45 ACP from moon clips in it? And if I can, will it still be able to handle .45 Colt?
Yes...no
+duelist1954
I'm guessing there's just enough space it in for .45 Colt and that's about it eh?
gunblast channel has a video about doing that
When I was seven in1963 my parents got divorced so my dad gave me a s&w
44 Russian revolver to protect my mother and I really liked the way it broke from the top.
отличный револьвер. а какими патронами он стреляет ? только с дымным порохом или есть какие то современные патроны
Вы можете снимать любую современную боеприпасы
благодарю за ответ
Hi Mike, who used this gun (maybe army but about civilians in USA?) . What kind of guns used bounty hunters of this period ?
This is a beautiful gun! Is it stainless steel? They seem quite practical. So then why were break-barrel revolvers discontinued ?
Nice