Thanks for mentioning that you need to grind more fine with a VST vs the stock basket. I was wondering why my shots were a bit over extracted. One thing you did not mention was the hole placement on the bottom of the basket. My stock 49mm baskets for my Cremina do not have evenly placed holes so the water cannot flow through the coffee bed evenly. The VST hole placement is perfect and even across the bottom of the basket.
Well, nowadays with the huge pletora of precision baskets popping up, some of them going all the way to like 240 USD per basket, the good ol' VST seem kinda affordable^^
In response to 6:15 in this video: My experience is that VST baskets DO NOT allow the same flow (ie. same grind setting) at different doses. I have 15, 18 and 20g VST baskets and have to change the grind setting for each basket using the same coffee. For example, the 20g basket requires a significantly coarser grind than the 15 for the same extracted volume/time.
I use the stock 21g ridged basket that came with my GS/3. It works great. I was told they were made by VST, slightly different finish than my VST baskets, but otherwise seem the same.
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Mine has "la marzocco 21g" (all lower case) lightly laser-etched into the side. Magnification shows the holes are well-formed and uniformly round. A main difference is VST baskets come with a data sheet with numbers, the La Marzocco (VST manufactured) do not. I suspect a busy coffee shop, with multiple group could utilize the numbers. My machine is from the same series as Luke's GS3 ("Hands for Songwa" sticker, rec'd about 18 months ago from LM USA). Basket weight may not be an accurate representation of differences, but my baskets are these: VST-15 32.0g VST-18 33.5g VST-20 35.8g VST-22 36.4g "lm 21" 36.9g (note: heavier than the VST-22) (they are all top-notch; the VST baskets used in a commercial La Cimbali over ten years, have had no inclination to use them in the GS3 as yet, as their 'stock' basket provides excellent results in a home environment after ~3300 extractions since new.).
Seems to work for the light roast, but medium roast 18g comes up over extracted on 1:2. 1:1,5 is okey but too muddy. Can you pull anything but ristretto on medium roast?
Yes you can, roast degrees change recipes and temps, if you can’t change both then you only have 1 lever to pull to make a change so maybe not enough of a change. Lower the temp for a medium roast if you can, and speed up the grind a little. A recipe is a starting point to then move from based on your tasting
Broadly speaking, “standard basket” can mean anything 🙂 Based on La Marzocco’s official statement, their “standard baskets” are designed by VST and meet *all* VST’s high quality criteria. A very good takeaway from this video is definitely _change your baskets regurarly_ in a commercial environment.
@@dsdf_fdp1858 They actually recommend replacing the basket after 6 months and shower screen after 3-4 months in linea mini preventative maintenance list 😀 A quality basket will last for good 3-5 years at home, shower screens can get beaten up and I replace mine yearly together with the silicone gasket. It’s cheap, doesn’t hurt.
@@dsdf_fdp1858 They'll last a long time at home! I also use an IMS basket, I swap between baskets depending on the coffee. I've had a Silvia V6, the shower screen was very cheaply made and an upgrade to IMS was my first intuition. But La Marzocco screens are quite good, I keep changing between IMS and La Marzocco and I still prefer the La Marzocco screen with the lion on it.
Which VST basket are you putting in 22.5g in… i have a 18g basket and i use a puck screen and i feel like it’s not filled all the way with 18g of coffee
I live local to mark and I'd prefer pullman. It'd be nice to figure out if there's a way to make singles work so I have a prototype 10g basket I've forgotten the reasoning but it was recent but it was something about a decent flowrate for that smaller dose needing a different grind size- and Idk if many cafes can dedicate the space for a grinder doing singles. in my head though if the particle size is functionally the same I'd expect to see vastly different flavour profiles but it's just a lot to make work. Current solution of 'drink all the spare espressos' is currently fine.
but i'm biased because #supportlocal. I wonder what the recent costs of sponsoring WBC were since I didn't see brita either, i saw a random water company I'd not heard of.
hi guys. not exactly related but i have noticed that in my home machine i tend to get almost 5ml of water stuck between the floor of the portafilter and the bottom of the filter basket right after i run hot water through it. any clue why this may be? i have to pry the basket out every time so the water can drip out. ive tried cleaning the vst basket and every hole is clean but it still happens. also at my work some of the baristas say to knock the spent puck straight away so it doesnt become difficult to clean and the others say to leave it there til the next shot so the condensation in the basket doesnt drip from the spouts all over the grinder area. is there any solution to that fixes both of these issues?
Hi great video. One question. I have both the 18g vst and the 7g vst. 18g is an easier fill, the 7g having the smaller tapered basket, with 7g of coffee distributing and tamping to be done how? I use a Gaggia Classic with a open handle.
Hello, I have a ecm technika v and just purchased a 18g VST straight wall basket as a loathed won’t fit so I was told. How can I run a double spout portafilter with a bigger basket as I would like to dose 19-20g. I know I can buy a naked portafilter.
Great video, thx. With your experience, just wondering how you can compare VST vs Pullman. Have my Slayer and love it, but would love to try one of the those 2. Truly appreciate all you do for us, coffee lovers 🙏
Yes, not comparing high end brands here, ims, Pullman, vst all great and to be considered over a cheap standard basket from the coffee machine supplier
This may be a stupid question, so apologies in advance; do you have to use a naked/bottomless portafilter with VST baskets? I bought a set of VSTs but they didn't fit in my portafilters, and I'm now having difficulty finding portafilters, that will fit the VSTS, and are NOT naked/bottomless. I'm starting to wonder if they exist!
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Thank you for the reply. How about 20g baskets? Are there regular portafilters, NOT naked/bottomless ones, that can take a 20g basket? Can't believe it's so tricky to get new filters and baskets! The machine is San Remo Zoe btw.
I love your videos, but this was not in my opinion the best, you were comparing an old mis shaped basket against a new/newer intact basket no wonder you could highlight differences, I have no argument that VST baskets are good but are they better than a like for like Pullman? I got the sense that you realised that this was not a solid video to make during filming it ? Not meant to be negative but constructive in that you have set a very high bar that I do not think this quite met.
Thanks for the feedback, we wanted to highlight quality of a high end basket, vst or otherwise, and to help baristas understand what happens with a poor quality basket when and why it can fail. We get a lot of calls on this issue with people blaming the machine when it’s actually the basket. We have never seen a quality basket fail, and then just wanted to give a little indication on the tech a good basket maker thinks about to add to the world of coffee excellence
I disagree I tested all the possible choices in Europe (many ims,vst,reneka, rancilio baskets, Gaggia baskets, la marzocco baskets) and the best results(balance, sweetness, clarity, consistency) i had with standard double Gaggia basket I tried to fool myself that vst is superior, but no, i tried a lot of coffees with a lot dial in, and Gaggia double basket was always better Edit: I have a Rancilio Epoca St1
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters My friend I am from City in Croatia which is 40 Miles from Italy work there as Bar Tender for decade! Back then we didn't do all BS that you UA-camrs selling or talking, that's all commercial propaganda! I pulled 100 espresso a hour ! What do you think we measured each gram we use all those gadgets to miz coffee or whatever!! Just saying! You can sell BS to naive people but life is simple as Espresso is!
@@calvintran8691 isn't much about baskets my point is! If you look from commercial side and making a money everything is important! There is guy on YT will open the College how to Tamp and which Tamp is good! Give me a break! Its all You Tube crap
@@lado2041 You should start making some videos to help people out. Sometimes I've thought about that myself about YT propaganda. Although at the end of the day it's just some advice for people and trying to help is understand a little more about different OPTIONS people have. I always appreciate that.
Thanks for mentioning that you need to grind more fine with a VST vs the stock basket. I was wondering why my shots were a bit over extracted. One thing you did not mention was the hole placement on the bottom of the basket. My stock 49mm baskets for my Cremina do not have evenly placed holes so the water cannot flow through the coffee bed evenly. The VST hole placement is perfect and even across the bottom of the basket.
Would be cool if you could do a comparison video between VST, IMS and Pullman
Well, nowadays with the huge pletora of precision baskets popping up, some of them going all the way to like 240 USD per basket, the good ol' VST seem kinda affordable^^
In response to 6:15 in this video: My experience is that VST baskets DO NOT allow the same flow (ie. same grind setting) at different doses. I have 15, 18 and 20g VST baskets and have to change the grind setting for each basket using the same coffee. For example, the 20g basket requires a significantly coarser grind than the 15 for the same extracted volume/time.
Good explanation! Bought one for my Sage machine and wondered about the timings. Mind you I usually make lattes so maybe not so critical!
A great Esprssso will make a great latte! A good espresso can’t be fixed by milk. 👍🏻
I use the stock 21g ridged basket that came with my GS/3. It works great. I was told they were made by VST, slightly different finish than my VST baskets, but otherwise seem the same.
yes that is what we have heard too, i think they have the strada logo on the side to be the same?
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Mine has "la marzocco 21g" (all lower case) lightly laser-etched into the side. Magnification shows the holes are well-formed and uniformly round. A main difference is VST baskets come with a data sheet with numbers, the La Marzocco (VST manufactured) do not. I suspect a busy coffee shop, with multiple group could utilize the numbers. My machine is from the same series as Luke's GS3 ("Hands for Songwa" sticker, rec'd about 18 months ago from LM USA).
Basket weight may not be an accurate representation of differences, but my baskets are these:
VST-15 32.0g
VST-18 33.5g
VST-20 35.8g
VST-22 36.4g
"lm 21" 36.9g (note: heavier than the VST-22)
(they are all top-notch; the VST baskets used in a commercial La Cimbali over ten years, have had no inclination to use them in the GS3 as yet, as their 'stock' basket provides excellent results in a home environment after ~3300 extractions since new.).
Seems to work for the light roast, but medium roast 18g comes up over extracted on 1:2. 1:1,5 is okey but too muddy. Can you pull anything but ristretto on medium roast?
Yes you can, roast degrees change recipes and temps, if you can’t change both then you only have 1 lever to pull to make a change so maybe not enough of a change. Lower the temp for a medium roast if you can, and speed up the grind a little. A recipe is a starting point to then move from based on your tasting
Broadly speaking, “standard basket” can mean anything 🙂 Based on La Marzocco’s official statement, their “standard baskets” are designed by VST and meet *all* VST’s high quality criteria. A very good takeaway from this video is definitely _change your baskets regurarly_ in a commercial environment.
@@dsdf_fdp1858 They actually recommend replacing the basket after 6 months and shower screen after 3-4 months in linea mini preventative maintenance list 😀 A quality basket will last for good 3-5 years at home, shower screens can get beaten up and I replace mine yearly together with the silicone gasket. It’s cheap, doesn’t hurt.
@@dsdf_fdp1858 They'll last a long time at home! I also use an IMS basket, I swap between baskets depending on the coffee.
I've had a Silvia V6, the shower screen was very cheaply made and an upgrade to IMS was my first intuition. But La Marzocco screens are quite good, I keep changing between IMS and La Marzocco and I still prefer the La Marzocco screen with the lion on it.
Which VST basket are you putting in 22.5g in… i have a 18g basket and i use a puck screen and i feel like it’s not filled all the way with 18g of coffee
Do VST and other precision baskets make a difference when you're making a latte? Or is the difference only noticeable with just espresso?
Esprssso is the foundation of any coffee, milk can’t fix a bad espresso so it’s important for all black and milk coffees
Hi, thanks for the video. Do you change the grind size when moving up or down in VSTs. Like goring from 22g to 18 or 15?
Yes
I live local to mark and I'd prefer pullman.
It'd be nice to figure out if there's a way to make singles work so I have a prototype 10g basket
I've forgotten the reasoning but it was recent but it was something about a decent flowrate for that smaller dose needing a different grind size- and Idk if many cafes can dedicate the space for a grinder doing singles.
in my head though if the particle size is functionally the same I'd expect to see vastly different flavour profiles but it's just a lot to make work. Current solution of 'drink all the spare espressos' is currently fine.
but i'm biased because #supportlocal.
I wonder what the recent costs of sponsoring WBC were since I didn't see brita either, i saw a random water company I'd not heard of.
Owning a pull an is chisel distributor is my dream! But Pullman is hard to get in the US.
can I ask why you was shifting out the Saint Anthony leveler, with the NCD?
Would they work with a piccopresso?
I don’t think they will fit
The optimum for my Gaggia Classic Pro is 17g. I just ordered a 58mm Normacore bottomless portafilter. What size of basket should I buy
look at the VST 18,20,21g depending on how strong you like you coffee, we use the 21g and dose 22.5g coffee into it
hi guys. not exactly related but i have noticed that in my home machine i tend to get almost 5ml of water stuck between the floor of the portafilter and the bottom of the filter basket right after i run hot water through it. any clue why this may be? i have to pry the basket out every time so the water can drip out. ive tried cleaning the vst basket and every hole is clean but it still happens. also at my work some of the baristas say to knock the spent puck straight away so it doesnt become difficult to clean and the others say to leave it there til the next shot so the condensation in the basket doesnt drip from the spouts all over the grinder area. is there any solution to that fixes both of these issues?
Great information. Thank you for doing this.
What do you recommend for 51mm?
I sure the range that offers the 51 vst, or any non standard would be a better basket
Hi great video. One question. I have both the 18g vst and the 7g vst. 18g is an easier fill, the 7g having the smaller tapered basket, with 7g of coffee distributing and tamping to be done how? I use a Gaggia Classic with a open handle.
I noticed UA-cam videos do a better job than Billboards.
Hello, I have a ecm technika v and just purchased a 18g VST straight wall basket as a loathed won’t fit so I was told. How can I run a double spout portafilter with a bigger basket as I would like to dose 19-20g. I know I can buy a naked portafilter.
hi guys do you think its okay to put 21.5gr coffee into la marzocco's 17gr basket?
Yes if it will fit in, I would have thought you may have so it fitted 20.5
May I ask is this La Marzocco - Firenze Italy model?
It’s a lm, but we don’t call them by that name??
Great video, thx. With your experience, just wondering how you can compare VST vs Pullman.
Have my Slayer and love it, but would love to try one of the those 2.
Truly appreciate all you do for us, coffee lovers 🙏
we will look at doing a comparision, how ever any of the after market baskets will be good, VST, IMS, Pullman
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Thank you ☕️
What does VST stand for?
VST or Pullman ?
Yes, not comparing high end brands here, ims, Pullman, vst all great and to be considered over a cheap standard basket from the coffee machine supplier
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters thanks~
This may be a stupid question, so apologies in advance; do you have to use a naked/bottomless portafilter with VST baskets? I bought a set of VSTs but they didn't fit in my portafilters, and I'm now having difficulty finding portafilters, that will fit the VSTS, and are NOT naked/bottomless. I'm starting to wonder if they exist!
Yes if you buy the 21g, or your porta filter has to be a straight wall handle, otherwise you will only fit the 18g vst
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Thank you for the reply. How about 20g baskets? Are there regular portafilters, NOT naked/bottomless ones, that can take a 20g basket? Can't believe it's so tricky to get new filters and baskets! The machine is San Remo Zoe btw.
You should try the Sworksdesign baskets. I preferred both standard and high flow basket results in blind tastings vs. VST,Pullman, ...
Nice!
I love your videos, but this was not in my opinion the best, you were comparing an old mis shaped basket against a new/newer intact basket no wonder you could highlight differences, I have no argument that VST baskets are good but are they better than a like for like Pullman? I got the sense that you realised that this was not a solid video to make during filming it ? Not meant to be negative but constructive in that you have set a very high bar that I do not think this quite met.
Thanks for the feedback, we wanted to highlight quality of a high end basket, vst or otherwise, and to help baristas understand what happens with a poor quality basket when and why it can fail. We get a lot of calls on this issue with people blaming the machine when it’s actually the basket. We have never seen a quality basket fail, and then just wanted to give a little indication on the tech a good basket maker thinks about to add to the world of coffee excellence
That vst was a bad shot 😮
I disagree
I tested all the possible choices in Europe (many ims,vst,reneka, rancilio baskets, Gaggia baskets, la marzocco baskets) and the best results(balance, sweetness, clarity, consistency) i had with standard double Gaggia basket
I tried to fool myself that vst is superior, but no, i tried a lot of coffees with a lot dial in, and Gaggia double basket was always better
Edit: I have a Rancilio Epoca St1
Whats wrong with my espresso?
your grind is too coarse and your pressure is too high
Imagine falling for this marketing rubbish
자막좀 달아주이소
Great info, but plse 15 minutes is too long. Needs editing to crisp it up the key facts. Thx
Noted!
Bad Barista blames his baskets
IMS
VST sucks I had one nothing different between regular to this one, just Commercial BS. Trust me
Were you measuring flow? Time? TDS? Or just making brews and tasting
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters My friend I am from City in Croatia which is 40 Miles from Italy work there as Bar Tender for decade! Back then we didn't do all BS that you UA-camrs selling or talking, that's all commercial propaganda! I pulled 100 espresso a hour ! What do you think we measured each gram we use all those gadgets to miz coffee or whatever!! Just saying! You can sell BS to naive people but life is simple as Espresso is!
it's BS, before the IMS and VST, did we all have bad espresso shots?
@@calvintran8691 isn't much about baskets my point is! If you look from commercial side and making a money everything is important! There is guy on YT will open the College how to Tamp and which Tamp is good! Give me a break! Its all You Tube crap
@@lado2041 You should start making some videos to help people out. Sometimes I've thought about that myself about YT propaganda. Although at the end of the day it's just some advice for people and trying to help is understand a little more about different OPTIONS people have. I always appreciate that.