A widely read newsletter accused jones of dangerous lies.that is a serious accusation against a journalist.i wrote to him saying that if he has any sense of self respect he would institute proceedings. don't hold your breath waiting for this moral coward to act L
@@LGarb-wp4gk Wasn't it those 'well read' papers who told us of the 'weapons of mass destruction' in IRAQ and pushed Boris Johnson forward as a competent pair of hands to run our country? Just to name 2 lies out of the many.
Indeed, and it must not go unnoticed how vocal Mary-Lou Mcdonald has become this week, in her opposition to the current administration. Within SF there will people, especially in the north, who see things through a prism of justice and armed struggle. Should Dublin continue to disregard the concerns of citizens, recent history demonstrates that the Irish have alternative ways of responding. Those voices may be ringing in Mary-Lou's ears, quietly, for the time being.
@@liammccann8763 it’s not just Ireland, the whole Europe is rising now because this is happening everywhere. Either the elite fix it, or they will have to go. 🤷🏻♂️
It is quite far right to take water and housing from people for decades. It is quite far right to not understand why your prisoners and slaves dont like you. It is quite far right to just make up horseshit
I encountered an individual who said he didn't believe that October 7th happened. I said 'fair enough... and The Israel Defence Force is not actually in Gaza'. He drew a breath to reply but then fell silent. 'Indeed!' I said.
Owen Jones thinks he is very clever and is the smartest person he knows. In his word salad of an argument he accepts the low level arguments and then the “but” which absolves him from being a denier but allows him to undermine the acceptance of the horrors perpetrated
Being a retired and semi disabled person it leaves me with lots of time at home ( and a big smart tv) to follow incidents and narratives since 10/7. Having listened to many hours of different , survivor testimony, reports of what they saw, reports from the Jewish " undertakers, patholigists, doctors, etc etc. All I have seen and heard adds up to total authenticity of the appalling atrocities that took place. The totality of all this is the truth of the mass female assault, adults and minors, mutilations and amputations, disgraceful attacks on babies ( though not the 40 ! No idea where that number came from. ) The inhuman and gross acts of that event leave one utterly shocked and disgusted if you have taken enough time to watch listen and appraise what is authentic. Then you have no doubts, the evidence is plain and out there!
Where that claim of forty beheaded babies came from seems to be a poor retelling of this I24 report by others: "Kfar Aza: Aftermath of the brutal attack by Hamas against women and babies" - The I24 reporter never said 40 babies were beheaded just some were based on what she was told by a commander which is what she reported. It's interesting for people to misrepresent this when the video is still online. Very interesting indeed... Also whatever turns out to be true, isn't murdering babies problematic irrespective of means and numbers? It seems to some that seizing upon one element of this is being used to overshadow grim things that aren't in contention by serious people. Some attribute the obsession over this one claim I24 didn't even make as a way to indulge in general denialism under it's cover, to cast doubt in general. This is a very common tactic in denying atrocities and one atrocity in particular.
The idea about journalists needing to peer inside the coffins captures the ghoulishness of it. If you're dealing with people who died, it seems an intense violation of their dignity and privacy to need the circulation of the darkest details, thus increasing the grief of the families and advancing the goals of terror. Let's say that neutrally examining the evidence is fine, but if you're looking at the evidence with a lens of motivated reasoning, then what might that motivation be? It seems like journalists should - if vaguely self aware - be cognizant of the horrifying implication if their motivations are less than absolutely pure. The starting point on this was a knowledge that the militants killed hundreds at a festival, paraded a seemingly dead body, captured women with blood on their pants that would strongly suggest assault, and took footage of attempting to behead people. Why wager your journalistic integrity or soul on the restraint and manners of psychos?
Apparently there was a nursery where approximately 40 dead babies were, some of whom were head-chopped. When it turned out a lot of them were shot instead, the whole day was dismissed as a fake
why not forty ? there was a whole class murdered how many in your child or grandchild's class on any one day ? and that's not the rest of a school or nursery
I heard that the freed hostages smiled or waved because they were threatened with violence if they didn't do so. Some of them had family still in captivity. Also, some freed hostages, presumably those with no family members still in captivity, told harrowing stories of their treatment in captivity.
Yes I've seen at least one video where the Israelis have appeared to have got sensitive enough recordings of terrorists telling their abductees to smile which some refuse to do
Yes. Also the apologists seemed to ignore the fact that people who have been held hostage for 50 days can't be expected to behave normally. They have suffered extreme psychological trauma, even if they haven't actually been tortured or starved.
The hostages were forced to smile, wave, and even told how to walk!!! There is even a video where one of the terrosists was caught on camera instructing one girl - "wave more smile some more"!! Many of them still have family members in the hand of Hamas. Not mentioning traumatised and scared to death.
It doesn't matter if the stabber was a naturalised Irish Citizen, the fact remains he was denied asylum a dozen times, provably lied about being tortured in Algeria on his asylum papers and was arrested for knife possession less than a year before the stabbing. Not to mention the R.O.I has a population of 7 million, 17% of whom are foreign born and of that 17% nearly half arrived in the last 5 years, to characterise the motivation as anti-immigration sentiment as if that is a bad thing is atrocious. Imagine nearly 1 in 5 people in your country being foreign and half of those having arrived in the last 5 years. Imagine living in that environment. Not to mention the entire foundation of Ireland and the reason for its fight for independence was based on an etnno-nationalistic identity. #IrelandForTheIrish #IrishLivesMatter
Then why the hell do Irish people support the Palestinians?!?!? You see what islamists are like in your country too! Why would you all support that ???
If Ireland does not allow open discourse on immigration and starts to restrict entry of "Asylum Seekers" it will go the same way as the UK, Belgium, France and Holland.
Again Spiked tell us that Ireland need to discuss immigration. London down to third native Brits, Birmingham 40%, Leicester 30%, Slough 25%. England 73% and reducing by1.5% a year. 750k net immigration last year and yet they still want a “more liberal” approach to immigration in the Uk. I liked Spiked but they are gatekeepers. They are obsessed with trans and now antisemitism but ignore open discrimination against us.
Well done Spiked! - another digestible dose of sanity and moderation. You have managed to find a level at which you can debunk the woke excesses-of-the-moment, without either inflaming or further alarming the viewer. This is a REAL gift, in the age of Piers Morgan - where the entire broadcast is DESIGNED to leave you feeling un-nerved and polarised.
Owen wants evidence of motivation?? Try reading Korran. There follows a short list of 50 problematic verses in the Korran, which I can expand to 500 verses if you wish. 1. … a grievous punishment awaits the unbelievers. 2:5, 2:104, 2:174, 3:176, 3:177, 3:178, 3:189, 4:56, 4:138, 5:36, 9:79, 9:90, 9:96, 9:101, 9:114, 10:9, 10:69, 10:95, 10:101, 13:34, 14:2, 14:29, 16.63 2. … unbelievers shall be inmates of fire, 2:39, 2:82, 2:167, 3:131, 3:150, 3:192, 4:56, 4:116, 4:145, 6:129, 8:13, 9:17, 9:63, 9:68, 10:9, 10:27, 11:15, 14:30, 22:8, 3. Fight against the unbelievers until idolatry is no more, and god's religion reigns supreme. 2:193 4. Muslims, fighting is obligatory for you, even if you dislike it. 2:216 5. Say to the unbelievers. 'you shall be overthrown and driven into hell, an evil resting place'. 3:10 6. Those who make war on god and Muhummad ... shall be crucified and have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides. 3:34 7. They shall strive to get out of the fire, but they shall not. A lasting punishment awaits them. 3:37 8. The unbelievers shall be sternly punished in this world and in the world to come, there shall be none to help them. 3:58 9. The reward for the unbeliever will be the curse of god, angels and all mankind, and under it they will abide forever. 3:88 10. Lay hold on the unbelievers, and kill them wherever you find them. 4:91 11. The unbelievers are your inveterate foe. 4:101 12 As for the unbelievers, if they offered the whole earth to redeem themselves ... it will not be accepted from them. A woeful punishment awaits them. They will strive to get out of the fire, but they will not. A lasting punishment awaits them. 5:36 13. Who will receive a worse punishment from god? Those who god has cursed and transformed into apes and pigs, and those who serve the devil. 5:60 14 Those who turn away from the Koran shall be sternly punished for their indifference. 6:157 15. God said ... I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the tips of their fingers. 8:12 16. Make war on the unbelievers until idolatry ceases and god's religion reigns supreme. 8:40 17. The basest of creatures in the sight of god are the faithless and those who will not believe. 8:55 18. Let not the unbelievers think they will get away ... Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so you may strike fear into the enemies of god. 8:59 19 Muhummad, rouse the Muslims to arms. If there are twenty among you, they shall vanquish two hundred. And if there are a hundred with you, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers; for they are devoid of understanding. 8:65 20. Proclaim a woeful punishment for the unbelievers. 9:4 21. When the sacred months are over, slay the idolators wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them. 9:5 22. Make war on the leaders of the unbelievers. 9:12 23. Make war on the unbelievers, god will chastise them at your hands and humble them. 9:14 24. Fight those to who the scriptures were given, and do not believe in god and the Last Day ... until they pay the religious tax in absolute submission 9:29 25 Muslims, if you do not go to war, god will punish you sternly and will replace you by other men. 9:39 26. Make war on the unbelievers and hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. 9:73 27. As for the unbelievers, scalding water they will drink, and for their unbelief a woeful punishment awaits them. 10:9 28 They shall be bound with chains. They are heirs of the Fire and shall abide in it forever. 13:6 29. Punishment awaits the unbelievers in this life, but a more grievous punishment awaits them in the life to come. 13:34 30. Do they not see how we invade their lands and diminish their borders? 13:40 31. Woe betide the unbelievers, for they shall be sternly punished. 14:2 32. Hell will stretch behind the unbeliever, and putrid water he shall drink ... Death will assail him from every side, yet he shall not die. A harrowing torment awaits him. 14:16 33. The unbeliever will burn in hell, and evil will be their fate. 14:29 34. On that day you will see the unbelievers bound in chains, their garments will be pitch, and their faces covered with flames. 14:50 35 God will gather the unbelievers on the day of resurrection, prostrate upon their faces, blind, dumb and deaf. Hell shall be their home: whenever the flames die down, god will rekindle them. Thus shall they be rewarded because they disbelieved. 17:98 36 For the unbelievers god has prepared a fire which will encompass them like the walls of a pavilion. When they cry out for help they shall be showered with water as hot as molten brass, which will scald their faces. Evil shall be their drink, evil will be their resting place. 18:29 37. On that day, god shall lay bare Hell before the unbelievers, who have turned a blind eye to my reprimand and a deaf ear to my warning ... We have prepared a Hell for the unbelievers to dwell in. 18:100 38. We will call the unbelievers to account in company with all the devils, and set them on their knees around the fires of Hell. 19:70 39. Know that god sends down devils to the unbelievers, to incite them to evil. The day will come when we gather the righteous before the Lord, and drive the guilty to hell in thirsty hoards. 18:87 40. If only the unbelievers knew the day when they shall strive in vain to shield their faces and their backs from the fires of hell; they day when none shall help them. 21:39 41. If anyone thinks that god will not give victory to Muhummad in this world and the next, let him tie a rope to the ceiling of his house and hang himself. 21:15 42. Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water will be poured upon their heads to melt their skins and that which is in their bellies; and they shall be lashed with rods of ireon. If they try to escape, they shall be dragged back and told, 'taste the torment and the Fires'. 22:19 50. Muslims do not take the Jews and Christians for friends. 3:28 51. Muslims, do not make friends with anyone but your own people. 3:118 52. Muslims, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. 5:51 Ralph
If Owen was being fair, hed question how many Gazans have been killed by misfiring Hamas rockets, or Hamas blocking civilians fleeing. Instead they are all killed by the IDF
According to one report, the misfire rate is about one every 37 minutes. Prior to October 7th, Hamas rocket attacks usually killed more people in the Gaza strip than they did in Israel - and some of those killed in Israel were/are Arabs.
This is a straw man argument. Hamas rockets misfiring isn't remotely close to the deliberate killing of civilians by IDF bombs. So, let's stop with the gas lighting. If what you said were true on 17yrs there's not ONE video by either Israel or Palestinian spies/informers/civilians who lost loved ones & no, unlike Israel Hamas don't control/eavesdrop on every cellphone in Gaza!
@@andrewshaughnessy5828 True, a lot of misfires, particularly by the smaller groups like islamic jihad, it's their missle that hit al alhi hospital parking lot.
Huge fan of Spiked. I'm a Labour voter but I'm increasingly disturbed by the growing idea that free speech is becoming seen as a Conservative or right-wing concept. Also that the working class are increasingly despised by the Left and the Establishment (as if they weren't already.)
On Dr Who, it was the mellowing of the scary villain Davros the leader of the Daleks into an able bodied individual because, and I kid you not, the director didn't want disabled people to be synonymous with ' evil' that got me. I've seen an interview with him and he actually says that and manages to keep a straight face 😆
he also said the world was no longer in black and white , shows he knows nothing about doctor who as Davros didn't appear until tom bakers tenue which was in colour
It's the same mind set where a previous director of the series when explaining that it's time for a woman to be Dr Who understood that it might cause some angst for Brexit voters. Pretty certain he was being serious 😆
What I am seeing happen in Ireland this week is EXACTLY the same thing that happened in Sweden for 20 years ago. Any reasonable discussion about real problems arising from failed immigration policies was classed as "racist" and threats and punishments were swiftly doled out to the poor Swede who'd been victimized by (insert immigrant criminal here), but dared to raise his or her voice in protest. Now it's the Irish who are made to blame for an immigrant's violent behaviour.
These people are tip toeing around the Irish issue, saying it's not really about immigration it's economics or democracy or whatever. Dear God, wake up.
Sometimes, you need to call someone morally dishonest. Before he issues another report, he should be required to review each autopsy. Until then, he should be required to shut his piehole.
I have been somewhat disappointed by some acquaintances who are very supportive of the ‘poor oppressed Palestinians’..I really haven’t realised how effective the Palestinian and Hamas propaganda has been in making so many people antisemitistic.. They all act as if 7/10 was nothing important..and was probably deserved! It’s a sad situation, bought about entirely by the Palestinians, who as always are the agents of their own misfortune.
Another thing about the hostages. After they were treated in hospitals it was found out that the kidnappers actually forced them to take drugs to appear "happier". And their relatives, of course,are still being imprisoned, starved and tortured as we speak. Because of this, the Israeli public was outraged at the journalists who insisted on getting interviews immediately after the first wave of hostages arrived. As far as I know, now they only interview those who volunteer .
When Gaza was given to the Palestinians Gaza was an economic powerhouse but was destroyed by Hamas . The Jewish people in Gaza were forced to leave by the IDF under great stress and the businesses there were world class but were burnt down by Hamas
If you have been taken hostage, especially as a child, you may not even be aware of your people being killed, or even a massacre having taken place. And anyone being returned will not want to jeopardise their freedom, even if it means looking happy, which you would be, and waving goodbye to your holders if instructed to do so. Anyone who denies what happened can watch the videos. I have seen some clips from that day by accident and I do not need or want to see the full footage as confirmation. Just knowing that I can cross check the testimony of others, and what I have seen already is enough for me.
It was uncovered the "smiling" hostages were drugged and held at gun point to smile for the cameras. They all reverted and suffered extreme PTSD afterwards.
first off they were hostages being held for ransom , maybe after seeing loved ones killed . Then there's Stockholm syndrome ;- is a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation. People develop positive feelings toward their captors or abusers over time.
@@evolassunglasses4673because stockholm syndrome apply for hostages who are fully dependant on their captives - not on prissoners. It is also important to mention that most Palestinian prisoners who were release don't have their loved ones held captive under gunpoint, while there are entire families abducted and torn apart during the hostage release phase. So yea - when you know they still have your father/husband/brother then you'll probably smile and wave to the camera regardless of how strong and resiliant you are yourself. Also many people like to mention the letters they wrote for their captives while still in captivity - I don't even think I need to explain it, that one is pretty straight forward.
The freed hostages were instructed or ordered (or rather coerced or threatened) by their captors to smile in front of the cameras, to give the false impression that the captors were "kind" towards them. The hostages were so happy and relieved to be freed, I'm sure that they would have followed any instruction from their captors.
Fascinating insight. Is it reasonable to propose, all things considered, that what we are experiencing is a war on truth, a war on reality? Military intelligence refers to this as fifth generation warfare, a dimension were we are all involved in the 'spectacle', whether we believe it or not.
This whole question of incitement seems dangerously , intentionally vague. Jewish people can incite hatred against themselves purely by existing. Does that put them at risk of prison if certain people are incited to hate?
perhaps Spiked can look into this issue - why are our leaders not listening to the public, why are not representing them fairly ? it seems to me that our leaders are listening to themselves or to someone else ? ie Brussels technocrats ( who are positioned and not elected ) .
26 minute mark. 26:00 They discuss immigration, borders... This reminds me of a warning given in an Atlantic article about the USA: "If liberals insist that only fascists will enforce borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals refuse to do."
L'd like to compliment Spiked staff on their very professional familiarity with both Irish affairs AND the correct pronunciation of Irish names and political party names. Well played.
I'm surprised Ella hasn't seen the video of one of the early releases where the audio was enhanced enough to hear the Hamas terroir ist instructing the hostages to "keep waving".
Nobody I have talked to has played down the crimes of Hamas, in fact it's been used as an excuse for the genocide of 20k Gazan citizens , and it is that crime that has been played down.
So even when you can see that Hamas took good care of the Prisoners, you can't see that they took care of the prisoners. That sounds like a syndrome to me.
I haven't figured out how people call for ceasefire, understanding that that ceasefire only applies to one side (aka Israel must be passive, and absorb rockets, shootings, etc.), and not calling to disarm Hamas, or calling for actual steps to secure innocent Palestinians. Ensure aid actually gets to civilians instead of tunnels... I just don't get it.
What is their explanation for Hamas taking their own people as hostages and hiding behind them. IDF does not do that, no army does that. Armies defend their populations, does not use them to further an ideology.
Owen had that “cry me a river” attitude while talking about the video he saw guys truly following an agenda always seems disingenuous like a child trying to sound sophisticated
Perhaps what is most striking is that the video footage of what Hamas did to people on the 7th of October is too awfully graphic for anyone to see. But the footage of Palestinian people being killed and bombarded is given to all of us to see. Perhaps the footage of what happened on the 7th should be released. Horrendous as it is.
If Im not supposed to believe stories about that attack, then Im definitely not going to believe that there is a war at all. Ill just go back to living my lifw normally, thanks.
Aaron Mate, Dan Cohen, Max Blumenthal, Norman Finkelstein, Brian Berletic at the New Atlas, Alex Rubenstein, and Gideon Levy (Haaretz) give an alternative perspective.
There’s is a so-called Real News Channel lol which has one called “Truth” that the Israelis accidentally did this and had to cover it up!!! andsome others I wish would be discussed. Shoutout to you fabulous guys 🙌👏🏼💪🙏💐🇮🇱✡️☮️✝️🛐💟
I used to believe that kinda crap like Democracy Now with Amy Goodman. She helped lead a protest against the post 9/11 Iraq War. Some on the Paleo Right and Libertarian opposed Bush and Cheney but Amy Goodman spun it up with what I didn't grasp at the time as being a Marxist view.
How is it that the knife attacker in Dublin is a "naturalized Irish citizen" when he entered Ireland illegally and was supposed to have been deported in 2003?
There are people who are convinced that the earth is flat. They shouldn't be taken seriously either. Being a leftard is fkn hard work due to all the mental squirmage that's required to do it right.
Thank goodness for Spiked! You are a breath of fresh air in a sea of confusion, appreciate you guys 🙏🏼
You must be too used to viewing propaganda if you think this report was unbiased.
@@huwwiliams8426you’re 100% the type of individual they speak on.
A widely read newsletter accused jones of dangerous lies.that is a serious accusation against a journalist.i wrote to him saying that if he has any sense of self respect he would institute proceedings. don't hold your breath waiting for this moral coward to act
L
@@gypsypixie4566 The type of person who takes history and peoples actual experiences into account?
@@LGarb-wp4gk Wasn't it those 'well read' papers who told us of the 'weapons of mass destruction' in IRAQ and pushed Boris Johnson forward as a competent pair of hands to run our country? Just to name 2 lies out of the many.
It’s not far right to want to defend your country from barbarism.
Indeed, and it must not go unnoticed how vocal Mary-Lou Mcdonald has become this week, in her opposition to the current administration. Within SF there will people, especially in the north, who see things through a prism of justice and armed struggle. Should Dublin continue to disregard the concerns of citizens, recent history demonstrates that the Irish have alternative ways of responding. Those voices may be ringing in Mary-Lou's ears, quietly, for the time being.
@@liammccann8763 it’s not just Ireland, the whole Europe is rising now because this is happening everywhere.
Either the elite fix it, or they will have to go. 🤷🏻♂️
Far right is becoming a meaningless term. Used as a stick to beat people who often have very valid concerns.
It is quite far right to take water and housing from people for decades. It is quite far right to not understand why your prisoners and slaves dont like you. It is quite far right to just make up horseshit
Ya fell for the Psyop bro
I encountered an individual who said he didn't believe that October 7th happened. I said 'fair enough... and The Israel Defence Force is not actually in Gaza'. He drew a breath to reply but then fell silent. 'Indeed!' I said.
Excellent!
A brilliant reposte!
Beat me to it.
Thanks Dan I will have to remember that one .
Tom Slater masterfully questioning the attitude of Owen Jones here. Nicely done Tom!
I'd like to see Owen Jones in a debate with Douglas Murray , he will chew him up and spit him out.
Owen Joness is a terrible mysognist. I cannot bear him for one second
Some women think he's a feminist lol
Owen Jones thinks he is very clever and is the smartest person he knows. In his word salad of an argument he accepts the low level arguments and then the “but” which absolves him from being a denier but allows him to undermine the acceptance of the horrors perpetrated
Being a retired and semi disabled person it leaves me with lots of time at home ( and a big smart tv) to follow incidents and narratives since 10/7. Having listened to many hours of different , survivor testimony, reports of what they saw, reports from the Jewish " undertakers, patholigists, doctors, etc etc. All I have seen and heard adds up to total authenticity of the appalling atrocities that took place. The totality of all this is the truth of the mass female assault, adults and minors, mutilations and amputations, disgraceful attacks on babies ( though not the 40 ! No idea where that number came from. ) The inhuman and gross acts of that event leave one utterly shocked and disgusted if you have taken enough time to watch listen and appraise what is authentic. Then you have no doubts, the evidence is plain and out there!
Sounds like your disability is a mental one.
Where that claim of forty beheaded babies came from seems to be a poor retelling of this
I24 report by others:
"Kfar Aza: Aftermath of the brutal attack by Hamas against women and babies" - The I24 reporter never said 40 babies were beheaded just some were based on what she was told by a commander which is what she reported.
It's interesting for people to misrepresent this when the video is still online.
Very interesting indeed...
Also whatever turns out to be true, isn't murdering babies problematic irrespective of means and numbers?
It seems to some that seizing upon one element of this is being used to overshadow grim things that aren't in contention
by serious people.
Some attribute the obsession over this one claim I24 didn't even make
as a way to indulge in general denialism under it's cover, to cast doubt in general.
This is a very common tactic in denying atrocities and one atrocity in particular.
The idea about journalists needing to peer inside the coffins captures the ghoulishness of it. If you're dealing with people who died, it seems an intense violation of their dignity and privacy to need the circulation of the darkest details, thus increasing the grief of the families and advancing the goals of terror. Let's say that neutrally examining the evidence is fine, but if you're looking at the evidence with a lens of motivated reasoning, then what might that motivation be? It seems like journalists should - if vaguely self aware - be cognizant of the horrifying implication if their motivations are less than absolutely pure. The starting point on this was a knowledge that the militants killed hundreds at a festival, paraded a seemingly dead body, captured women with blood on their pants that would strongly suggest assault, and took footage of attempting to behead people. Why wager your journalistic integrity or soul on the restraint and manners of psychos?
Apparently there was a nursery where approximately 40 dead babies were, some of whom were head-chopped. When it turned out a lot of them were shot instead, the whole day was dismissed as a fake
why not forty ? there was a whole class murdered how many in your child or grandchild's class on any one day ? and that's not the rest of a school or nursery
It seems like you're the only sane people in a world gone mad. You're a breath of fresh air for me as an Israeli on social media.
There are loads of sane people, but very few live in London.
I heard that the freed hostages smiled or waved because they were threatened with violence if they didn't do so. Some of them had family still in captivity. Also, some freed hostages, presumably those with no family members still in captivity, told harrowing stories of their treatment in captivity.
Correct.
Almost all of them still have family held hostage. Hamas arranged the release this way to maintain threat over the released captives.
Yes I've seen at least one video where the Israelis have appeared to have got sensitive enough recordings of terrorists telling their abductees to smile which some refuse to do
Yes. Also the apologists seemed to ignore the fact that people who have been held hostage for 50 days can't be expected to behave normally. They have suffered extreme psychological trauma, even if they haven't actually been tortured or starved.
There's a recording of one of the hamas guys telling the hostages "keep waving".
The hostages were forced to smile, wave, and even told how to walk!!! There is even a video where one of the terrosists was caught on camera instructing one girl - "wave more smile some more"!! Many of them still have family members in the hand of Hamas. Not mentioning traumatised and scared to death.
I was grinning with glee after surviving a gas station armed robbery when I was 16.
I was the victim of an armed robbery at a gas station when I was a teenager. I was positively elated when I stood up and I was still alive.
Ella they were ordered to act friendly on release, it doesn't take much imagination to guess what sort of intimdation was used.
it's so insane:hostages, of course, have to play nice, these monsters still have the relatives and neighbour captives.
It doesn't matter if the stabber was a naturalised Irish Citizen, the fact remains he was denied asylum a dozen times, provably lied about being tortured in Algeria on his asylum papers and was arrested for knife possession less than a year before the stabbing. Not to mention the R.O.I has a population of 7 million, 17% of whom are foreign born and of that 17% nearly half arrived in the last 5 years, to characterise the motivation as anti-immigration sentiment as if that is a bad thing is atrocious. Imagine nearly 1 in 5 people in your country being foreign and half of those having arrived in the last 5 years. Imagine living in that environment. Not to mention the entire foundation of Ireland and the reason for its fight for independence was based on an etnno-nationalistic identity. #IrelandForTheIrish #IrishLivesMatter
Then why the hell do Irish people support the Palestinians?!?!? You see what islamists are like in your country too! Why would you all support that ???
Yes. There's normal nationalism that's not extreme nationalism.
If Ireland does not allow open discourse on immigration and starts to restrict entry of "Asylum Seekers" it will go the same way as the UK, Belgium, France and Holland.
They filmed themselves. What's to be confused about ?
Jews are involved. The WRONG KIND of Jews.
How can they deny it, when hamas admits it, and filmed it?
It's a level of delusion I haven't seen before.
Again Spiked tell us that Ireland need to discuss immigration. London down to third native Brits, Birmingham 40%, Leicester 30%, Slough 25%. England 73% and reducing by1.5% a year. 750k net immigration last year and yet they still want a “more liberal” approach to immigration in the Uk. I liked Spiked but they are gatekeepers. They are obsessed with trans and now antisemitism but ignore open discrimination against us.
Dublin is unrecognisable.☹
Well done Spiked! - another digestible dose of sanity and moderation.
You have managed to find a level at which you can debunk the woke excesses-of-the-moment, without either inflaming or further alarming the viewer.
This is a REAL gift, in the age of Piers Morgan - where the entire broadcast is DESIGNED to leave you feeling un-nerved and polarised.
Piers Morgan is the kind of weak person who would be put on the defensive by someone whose position is that the holocaust was a good idea.
This is called deradicalization. It is a psychological tactic to vent frustrations and prevent people from actually taking ACTION to save themselves.
Owen should take a trip to Gaza to see for himself
With plenty of pre-visit biographical and sexual publicity, so that there are plenty of big, hairy, muscled, Arab males just waiting for him!
Yeah. He'll be ok now all the tall buildings are flat...plenty of stones there now....
It won't help their mind is closed.
Owen wants evidence of motivation??
Try reading Korran.
There follows a short list of 50 problematic verses in the Korran, which I can expand to 500 verses if you wish.
1. … a grievous punishment awaits the unbelievers. 2:5, 2:104, 2:174, 3:176, 3:177, 3:178, 3:189, 4:56, 4:138, 5:36, 9:79, 9:90, 9:96, 9:101, 9:114, 10:9, 10:69, 10:95, 10:101, 13:34, 14:2, 14:29, 16.63
2. … unbelievers shall be inmates of fire, 2:39, 2:82, 2:167, 3:131, 3:150, 3:192, 4:56, 4:116, 4:145, 6:129, 8:13, 9:17, 9:63, 9:68, 10:9, 10:27, 11:15, 14:30, 22:8,
3. Fight against the unbelievers until idolatry is no more, and god's religion reigns supreme. 2:193
4. Muslims, fighting is obligatory for you, even if you dislike it. 2:216
5. Say to the unbelievers. 'you shall be overthrown and driven into hell, an evil resting place'. 3:10
6. Those who make war on god and Muhummad ... shall be crucified and have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides. 3:34
7. They shall strive to get out of the fire, but they shall not. A lasting punishment awaits them. 3:37
8. The unbelievers shall be sternly punished in this world and in the world to come, there shall be none to help them. 3:58
9. The reward for the unbeliever will be the curse of god, angels and all mankind, and under it they will abide forever. 3:88
10. Lay hold on the unbelievers, and kill them wherever you find them. 4:91
11. The unbelievers are your inveterate foe. 4:101
12 As for the unbelievers, if they offered the whole earth to redeem themselves ... it will not be accepted from them. A woeful punishment awaits them. They will strive to get out of the fire, but they will not. A lasting punishment awaits them. 5:36
13. Who will receive a worse punishment from god? Those who god has cursed and transformed into apes and pigs, and those who serve the devil. 5:60
14 Those who turn away from the Koran shall be sternly punished for their indifference. 6:157
15. God said ... I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the tips of their fingers. 8:12
16. Make war on the unbelievers until idolatry ceases and god's religion reigns supreme. 8:40
17. The basest of creatures in the sight of god are the faithless and those who will not believe. 8:55
18. Let not the unbelievers think they will get away ... Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so you may strike fear into the enemies of god. 8:59
19 Muhummad, rouse the Muslims to arms. If there are twenty among you, they shall vanquish two hundred. And if there are a hundred with you, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers; for they are devoid of understanding. 8:65
20. Proclaim a woeful punishment for the unbelievers. 9:4
21. When the sacred months are over, slay the idolators wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them. 9:5
22. Make war on the leaders of the unbelievers. 9:12
23. Make war on the unbelievers, god will chastise them at your hands and humble them. 9:14
24. Fight those to who the scriptures were given, and do not believe in god and the Last Day ... until they pay the religious tax in absolute submission 9:29
25 Muslims, if you do not go to war, god will punish you sternly and will replace you by other men. 9:39
26. Make war on the unbelievers and hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. 9:73
27. As for the unbelievers, scalding water they will drink, and for their unbelief a woeful punishment awaits them. 10:9
28 They shall be bound with chains. They are heirs of the Fire and shall abide in it forever. 13:6
29. Punishment awaits the unbelievers in this life, but a more grievous punishment awaits them in the life to come. 13:34
30. Do they not see how we invade their lands and diminish their borders? 13:40
31. Woe betide the unbelievers, for they shall be sternly punished. 14:2
32. Hell will stretch behind the unbeliever, and putrid water he shall drink ... Death will assail him from every side, yet he shall not die. A harrowing torment awaits him. 14:16
33. The unbeliever will burn in hell, and evil will be their fate. 14:29
34. On that day you will see the unbelievers bound in chains, their garments will be pitch, and their faces covered with flames. 14:50
35 God will gather the unbelievers on the day of resurrection, prostrate upon their faces, blind, dumb and deaf. Hell shall be their home: whenever the flames die down, god will rekindle them. Thus shall they be rewarded because they disbelieved. 17:98
36 For the unbelievers god has prepared a fire which will encompass them like the walls of a pavilion. When they cry out for help they shall be showered with water as hot as molten brass, which will scald their faces. Evil shall be their drink, evil will be their resting place. 18:29
37. On that day, god shall lay bare Hell before the unbelievers, who have turned a blind eye to my reprimand and a deaf ear to my warning ... We have prepared a Hell for the unbelievers to dwell in. 18:100
38. We will call the unbelievers to account in company with all the devils, and set them on their knees around the fires of Hell. 19:70
39. Know that god sends down devils to the unbelievers, to incite them to evil. The day will come when we gather the righteous before the Lord, and drive the guilty to hell in thirsty hoards. 18:87
40. If only the unbelievers knew the day when they shall strive in vain to shield their faces and their backs from the fires of hell; they day when none shall help them. 21:39
41. If anyone thinks that god will not give victory to Muhummad in this world and the next, let him tie a rope to the ceiling of his house and hang himself. 21:15
42. Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water will be poured upon their heads to melt their skins and that which is in their bellies; and they shall be lashed with rods of ireon. If they try to escape, they shall be dragged back and told, 'taste the torment and the Fires'. 22:19
50. Muslims do not take the Jews and Christians for friends. 3:28
51. Muslims, do not make friends with anyone but your own people. 3:118
52. Muslims, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. 5:51
Ralph
He will 'fly'
If Owen was being fair, hed question how many Gazans have been killed by misfiring Hamas rockets, or Hamas blocking civilians fleeing. Instead they are all killed by the IDF
According to one report, the misfire rate is about one every 37 minutes. Prior to October 7th, Hamas rocket attacks usually killed more people in the Gaza strip than they did in Israel - and some of those killed in Israel were/are Arabs.
This is a straw man argument. Hamas rockets misfiring isn't remotely close to the deliberate killing of civilians by IDF bombs. So, let's stop with the gas lighting. If what you said were true on 17yrs there's not ONE video by either Israel or Palestinian spies/informers/civilians who lost loved ones & no, unlike Israel Hamas don't control/eavesdrop on every cellphone in Gaza!
@@andrewshaughnessy5828 True, a lot of misfires, particularly by the smaller groups like islamic jihad, it's their missle that hit al alhi hospital parking lot.
Next, Owen will tell that hostages resented their release
every time he spoke of an atrocity he was shaking his head this is a way of expressing denial and "that's not true" body language wise
Huge fan of Spiked. I'm a Labour voter but I'm increasingly disturbed by the growing idea that free speech is becoming seen as a Conservative or right-wing concept. Also that the working class are increasingly despised by the Left and the Establishment (as if they weren't already.)
On Dr Who, it was the mellowing of the scary villain Davros the leader of the Daleks into an able bodied individual because, and I kid you not, the director didn't want disabled people to be synonymous with ' evil' that got me. I've seen an interview with him and he actually says that and manages to keep a straight face 😆
As a disabled person and an evil mastermind I approve this message.
Bear in mind he said it had 'always' been iffy to him, but he decided it was fine for new character John Lumic to be in a wheelchair.
he also said the world was no longer in black and white , shows he knows nothing about doctor who as Davros didn't appear until tom bakers tenue which was in colour
It's the same mind set where a previous director of the series when explaining that it's time for a woman to be Dr Who understood that it might cause some angst for Brexit voters. Pretty certain he was being serious 😆
Good to see Ella again. I’ve been listening to her from the very first podcast.
She’s grown into a formidable opinionista and defender of democracy.
What I am seeing happen in Ireland this week is EXACTLY the same thing that happened in Sweden for 20 years ago. Any reasonable discussion about real problems arising from failed immigration policies was classed as "racist" and threats and punishments were swiftly doled out to the poor Swede who'd been victimized by (insert immigrant criminal here), but dared to raise his or her voice in protest.
Now it's the Irish who are made to blame for an immigrant's violent behaviour.
These people are tip toeing around the Irish issue, saying it's not really about immigration it's economics or democracy or whatever.
Dear God, wake up.
Correct.
Absolutely brilliant on every level
Sometimes, you need to call someone morally dishonest. Before he issues another report, he should be required to review each autopsy. Until then, he should be required to shut his piehole.
I have been somewhat disappointed by some acquaintances who are very supportive of the ‘poor oppressed Palestinians’..I really haven’t realised how effective the Palestinian and Hamas propaganda has been in making so many people antisemitistic.. They all act as if 7/10 was nothing important..and was probably deserved! It’s a sad situation, bought about entirely by the Palestinians, who as always are the agents of their own misfortune.
Another thing about the hostages.
After they were treated in hospitals it was found out that the kidnappers actually forced them to take drugs to appear "happier".
And their relatives, of course,are still being imprisoned, starved and tortured as we speak.
Because of this, the Israeli public was outraged at the journalists who insisted on getting interviews immediately after the first wave of hostages arrived. As far as I know, now they only interview those who volunteer .
When Gaza was given to the Palestinians Gaza was an economic powerhouse but was destroyed by Hamas . The Jewish people in Gaza were forced to leave by the IDF under great stress and the businesses there were world class but were burnt down by Hamas
If you have been taken hostage, especially as a child, you may not even be aware of your people being killed, or even a massacre having taken place. And anyone being returned will not want to jeopardise their freedom, even if it means looking happy, which you would be, and waving goodbye to your holders if instructed to do so.
Anyone who denies what happened can watch the videos. I have seen some clips from that day by accident and I do not need or want to see the full footage as confirmation. Just knowing that I can cross check the testimony of others, and what I have seen already is enough for me.
Tom Slater's a real rising star for me. (Sorry, you're all brilliant!)
Hostages were TOLD to smile for the cameras, otherwise the other hostages would be tortured.
That was the threat.
R
It was uncovered the "smiling" hostages were drugged and held at gun point to smile for the cameras.
They all reverted and suffered extreme PTSD afterwards.
Women need to appreciate, the atrocities all women suffered on October 7th .
It’s not far right to want to defend your country from barbarism. it wasn't the far right that threw the english out of Ireland it was its people.
first off they were hostages being held for ransom , maybe after seeing loved ones killed .
Then there's Stockholm syndrome ;- is a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation. People develop positive feelings toward their captors or abusers over time.
It's intresting the Palestinians haven't fallen in love with their Israeli prison guards....
@@evolassunglasses4673 the wall extends across to Egypt so include them as so called prison guards to be balanced, yes?
You keep telling yourself that...
your statement is unclear on intent
@@evolassunglasses4673because stockholm syndrome apply for hostages who are fully dependant on their captives - not on prissoners. It is also important to mention that most Palestinian prisoners who were release don't have their loved ones held captive under gunpoint, while there are entire families abducted and torn apart during the hostage release phase. So yea - when you know they still have your father/husband/brother then you'll probably smile and wave to the camera regardless of how strong and resiliant you are yourself. Also many people like to mention the letters they wrote for their captives while still in captivity - I don't even think I need to explain it, that one is pretty straight forward.
I’m done with the
Left after Oct 07….20 years of greens membership in Australia down the drain after this
It’s clearly good versus evil.
Owen Jones, a graduate from the David Irving school of journalism.
The Lord Haw Haw of our times.
Irving is based and absolutely correct
Terrific program! You've gained a follower!
Regards the hostages smiling and hugging their captors etc, apparantly they could be heard ordering them to do that, it was not spontaneous.
Exactly. They were threatened.
The freed hostages were instructed or ordered (or rather coerced or threatened) by their captors to smile in front of the cameras, to give the false impression that the captors were "kind" towards them.
The hostages were so happy and relieved to be freed, I'm sure that they would have followed any instruction from their captors.
Owen Jones should write for the Beano.
Owen would leave after Cuthbert took his dinner money everyday.
Fascinating insight. Is it reasonable to propose, all things considered, that what we are experiencing is a war on truth, a war on reality? Military intelligence refers to this as fifth generation warfare, a dimension were we are all involved in the 'spectacle', whether we believe it or not.
Also Novara media are leaning the same way as Owen.
This whole question of incitement seems dangerously , intentionally vague. Jewish people can incite hatred against themselves purely by existing. Does that put them at risk of prison if certain people are incited to hate?
Thank you for being a beacon of common sense and rational thinking in these algorithmic times.
It funny that Owen jones is doing this! He was the one that had a hissy fit when debating pulse night club massacre!
Thank you for the rational discussion on Israel/gaza war
It's interesting that Owen Jones wore a tee shirt with a print of a watermelon on it when he filmed his review video of the 7 Oct atrocities.
Yeh..didnt slip my atention either the hammas loving little shit
perhaps Spiked can look into this issue - why are our leaders not listening to the public, why are not representing them fairly ? it seems to me that our leaders are listening to themselves or to someone else ? ie Brussels technocrats ( who are positioned and not elected ) .
what is this israel lobby?
@@anglodoomer5995 is it that or some one else - proof is needed for the readers
@@anglodoomer5995That's a truly hilarious comment. Puts the tales of denial into proper perspective...
So relieved to find this island of 'normality'. Good discussion and anchored in reality
“Nice clothes the hostages are wearing” !!! - I must have missed the fashion parade 😮
26 minute mark.
26:00
They discuss immigration, borders...
This reminds me of a warning given in an Atlantic article about the USA:
"If liberals insist that only fascists will enforce borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals refuse to do."
Great quote, and it captures well the Spiked perspective.
Emma still has to bring the far right angle into it, then alluding to former repressive regimes, does she mean the British?
L'd like to compliment Spiked staff on their very professional familiarity with both Irish affairs AND the correct pronunciation of Irish names and political party names. Well played.
The war did not started on the 7th
Oct it started in 1948
These people are starting to sound not unlike Holocaust Deniers really.
you rock
so calm and respectful talk thank you
I'm surprised Ella hasn't seen the video of one of the early releases where the audio was enhanced enough to hear the Hamas terroir ist instructing the hostages to "keep waving".
the hostages were drugged with sedatives
Owen Jones will say anything to get noticed. Enjoys controversy which he starts with false and abhorrent claims.
Nobody I have talked to has played down the crimes of Hamas, in fact it's been used as an excuse for the genocide of 20k Gazan citizens , and it is that crime that has been played down.
Whoever wins this conflict, I win. Very enlightening of Spiked leanings too. Another win!
The Dublin attack could not have happened as I believe owen jones did not physically witness it
So even when you can see that Hamas took good care of the Prisoners, you can't see that they took care of the prisoners. That sounds like a syndrome to me.
I haven't figured out how people call for ceasefire, understanding that that ceasefire only applies to one side (aka Israel must be passive, and absorb rockets, shootings, etc.), and not calling to disarm Hamas, or calling for actual steps to secure innocent Palestinians. Ensure aid actually gets to civilians instead of tunnels... I just don't get it.
For God’s sake- these hostages had a gun shoved in their face surrounded by howling mob n when handed over to Red Cross told to smile n wave!!!
Great Pod
The truth is important
God bless ya’ll 💙🇮🇱🙏
Very well said 👏🏻
What is their explanation for Hamas taking their own people as hostages and hiding behind them. IDF does not do that, no army does that. Armies defend their populations, does not use them to further an ideology.
Owen had that “cry me a river” attitude while talking about the video he saw guys truly following an agenda always seems disingenuous like a child trying to sound sophisticated
The smiling hostages were suffering from Stendhal syndrome. A self preservation reaction
No they weren't,. Please stop this nonsense. They were told to perform for the cameras by Hamas, who still has their family members as hostages.
Beyond terrified. Only that.
Good conversation re Gaza, guys...
Perhaps what is most striking is that the video footage of what Hamas did to people on the 7th of October is too awfully graphic for anyone to see. But the footage of Palestinian people being killed and bombarded is given to all of us to see.
Perhaps the footage of what happened on the 7th should be released. Horrendous as it is.
If Im not supposed to believe stories about that attack, then Im definitely not going to believe that there is a war at all. Ill just go back to living my lifw normally, thanks.
The pro hamas/palestine movment sounds more like a MeToo movment.”Beleave all p’s”.
Aaron Mate, Dan Cohen, Max Blumenthal, Norman Finkelstein, Brian Berletic at the New Atlas, Alex Rubenstein, and Gideon Levy (Haaretz) give an alternative perspective.
There are no redeeming qualities to pure evil
Their conspiracy theories about what happened are far worse than Alex Jones.
Very good analysis
There’s is a so-called Real News Channel lol which has one called “Truth” that the Israelis accidentally did this and had to cover it up!!! andsome others I wish would be discussed. Shoutout to you fabulous guys 🙌👏🏼💪🙏💐🇮🇱✡️☮️✝️🛐💟
I used to believe that kinda crap like Democracy Now with Amy Goodman. She helped lead a protest against the post 9/11 Iraq War. Some on the Paleo Right and Libertarian opposed Bush and Cheney but Amy Goodman spun it up with what I didn't grasp at the time as being a Marxist view.
From what I understand Owen Moans wanted to see the horror crimes actually happening live. Isn’t that a tad perverse.
How is it that the knife attacker in Dublin is a "naturalized Irish citizen" when he entered Ireland illegally and was supposed to have been deported in 2003?
my dear Ella is back finally🎉
Thanks x
Is Corbyn Owen Jones's dad?
Only in Jones' dreams
I unsubbed from Owen Jones today and have to say, over this subject the left is pssng me off
How many..is a huge problem. Also the fact that we know that most of them are NOT refugees. Just economic opportunists.
They say all seven of them, to this day, deny it.
I also deny October. So there's 8 of us.
We are the 8 October deniers.
Nobody heard of Stockholm Syndrome?
Wokeness is indeed creative death
Two men got beheaded last year by an immigrant. Why didn’t you mention that?
Owen Jones' Corbyn's star pupil!
There are people who are convinced that the earth is flat. They shouldn't be taken seriously either. Being a leftard is fkn hard work due to all the mental squirmage that's required to do it right.
I think Ellen Whelan is an excellent orator and an amazing journalist, I really, really like her