Great video, from another physio who is also a mtb rider, it all makes anatomical sense. Really appreciate how you simplify the information it to make it usable.
Wow, that was really good points about how mtb bikes geometry feels "less sensitive" to stem length, saddle positions, etc. Really eye opener for me. As an insight, one geometry's aspect that truly differs between roadbike and mtb is BB height. So I could conclude that the lower BB height magnify effects of any stem/saddle size and positions.
I had to chuckle when Niel talked about moving the seat forward a couple millimeters. Modern mountain bikes have such steep seat tube angles, the seat is often 5 or more cm forward vs a road bike, to maintain that balanced position during climbs
Another fantastic video from Neill, thanks so much for all the info from Neill. It's all info that I know already but Neill makes it all so easy to understand and follow. Looking forward to the next one.
Any considerations for cleat positions in road v mtb? I've been MTB'ing since the late 80's and have found foot positioning can play a bigger factor for steering then weighting the handle bars for cornering. I also think that cornering in the MTB world can be broken into two types. One is with saddle at full height and mostly then staying seated thru the corner. Second is what the majority of MTB'ing corner is these days and that is with the saddle lowered and thus standing with legs extended or bent to be able to move dynamically. This 2nd aspect of cornering is where the rider is putting the majority of their weight thru the pedals to influence the bike..
Hi um here in Philippines we mostly use hardtail as our all around bike like mine mostly used on roads and long rides and sometimes on a trail. Is the bike fitting slightly same with the road bike?
Thanks again! 😊 Would be nice for a video if your fit (especially reach and drop) should be the same across different road bikes, i.e touring bikes, gravel bikes, endurance bikes vs the fit on traditional racing bikes, aero bikes, etc.
Isn’t it the opposite regarding stem and bar lengths to steering sensitivity? Shorter stem and wider bar reduce sensitivity and make steering more predictable. Longer stem and narrower bar make steering twitchy.
No and yes. Neill went independent in the analysis: A shorter stem is more twitchy, as is a shorter bar. So if you make *both* shorter, it will get more twitchy. If you make one shorter and one longer, it might be more or less twitchy, depending on how those changes are relative to each other.
I know Cam you don’t do triathlons or TT but wow would be great to hear Neils take on that type of fit. I have lots of knowledge after years but Neil always has a different way of looking at rider and bike. Thx.
I have an assortment of John Tomac , designed , Tioga Multi - Control saddles new in cardboard boxes . Who remembers these ? They are more downhill oriented but offer riding position manouverability .
Thank you for your useful video. I ride road bikes and I am new to MTB since I enjoy riding together with my little son who is a MTB fan. My worry is how shall I accommodate to the wider Q factor of the MTB. I would like to avoid an injury from the different Q. Any general advice would be helpful. Merry Christmas with health and prosperity.
Great analysis as always. With respect to the saddle fore and aft on an XC bike, you mentioned pretty much setting up similar to the road bike. How much of an effect does seat tube angle play into this, let’s say, if the XC bikes seat tube is 1 degree slacker? Is 1 degree negligible?
Be interested to know what you think about switching between the road bike and the mtb. e.g. Monday road, tuesday mtb. etc. I really feel the difference in the Q factor and if i dont ride the roadie much and go back to it after a while, I get doms but never ever get doms on a mtb. This normal?
Many thanks to you and Neil for these brilliant videos! I'm a nube in road cycling after few years of cross-country, and, after a couple of weeks trying and setting up my new road bike, I still start having some pain here and there after a couple hours of riding. Rides shorter than that are fine. What do you think, should I continue setting up, or is it a good start already? In other words, is the ideal position pain free for any ride duration? Or do I just need to get used to the new bike and longer rides anyway?
Depends where the pain is. If it's muscular stress, then I would say you're developing the conditioning you need to go long. It it's proper niggles that are lingering, I would say it's fit. Very hard to say. Cam
Really good advices. I do XC on normal trails here in Trondheim, Norway, nothing really extreme. I have a Cannondale Scalpel 2021 and I run some marathon races through out the sommer sesong, and I wonder what advices you have for such 40-100+km races?
Thanks! Many riders don’t put enough importance on reach, stack and seat height…and that’s fine, BUT ‘IF’ you want to really transform your riding experience…those 3 are crucial between ‘mmm’ to ‘great ride’. Thanks again guys!!! (I share these vids w/my USAF 🇺🇸 friends here in N.Italy 🇮🇹 btw)
Idk about the whole balance thing. Trough loose corners, or steep drops, I'm 99% of the time standing up anyways, so the saddle set back doesn't play a role here I think running the saddle a bit more forward could help with climbing though
But for MTB normally we are out of the saddle during cornering, also the saddle will be dropped for descending and riding drop offs, especially if you have a dropper post.
Thanks so much. This was soooo helpful! I just had a bike fitting from a roadie who knew nothing about MTBs. He was obsessed with my seat height, which I thought was odd because I have a dropper. A waste of $325 US. This video helped me so much for my new bike.
He should be obsessed with your seat height. That's 85% of good bike fit. The fact you have a dropper post doesn't mean the top point isn't massively important.
What are the best practice for setting MTB fit for longer road distances without compromising trail ride too much?, I.e. for bike packing on a XC hard tail, for sections riding 40km/h mostly flat terrain? Anyone tried mounting aerobars for that alternative position? Or simply having lower handlebar/longer stem?
I just did a 55 mile ride on a rail trail on my MTB. I had trouble with my knee's. Especially my left knee. I am twisting my left foot more often to get it out of my crank Bro. pedal. I'm thinking of lowering my saddle height slightly. A couple of more mm until my heel contacts the pedal. It's seat height is about what I have on my road bike which feels great on my road bike. I'm looking for suggestions. I'm not much of a single track rider and ride more on dirt road or logging road type of terrain. Any suggestions?
My knee seem doesn't like Mountainbike.. the q factor is killing my knee.. It can't go narrow on mtb.. Vica versa.. my knee still can compromise on roadbike... Sometimes on my pedaling my right knee is hiting the top tube.. 🤭 but thats oke.. Leg length discrepancy... Duck foot, right feet morton neuroma.. scoliosis.. all this thing killing me on mtb...
I so wanted an in video popup of the angry shouting commenting guy with the hat on that we normally see in other videos to butt in and abuse Cam for his lack of mountain bike prowess. Cam you at least need to give a mountain bike a try just to see what Neill is on about.
The seat position hardly matters at all mountain biking, you shouldn't be seated cornering or going off drops anyways! And regardless of the seat position you can shift your weight wherever you like
I could listen to him talk all day. Very knowledgeable
These collection of bike fit videos are gold! Neill is brilliant
Great video, from another physio who is also a mtb rider, it all makes anatomical sense. Really appreciate how you simplify the information it to make it usable.
Wow, that was really good points about how mtb bikes geometry feels "less sensitive" to stem length, saddle positions, etc. Really eye opener for me. As an insight, one geometry's aspect that truly differs between roadbike and mtb is BB height.
So I could conclude that the lower BB height magnify effects of any stem/saddle size and positions.
I had to chuckle when Niel talked about moving the seat forward a couple millimeters. Modern mountain bikes have such steep seat tube angles, the seat is often 5 or more cm forward vs a road bike, to maintain that balanced position during climbs
There’s a good set of videos about sizing using the RAD concept
Another fantastic video from Neill, thanks so much for all the info from Neill. It's all info that I know already but Neill makes it all so easy to understand and follow. Looking forward to the next one.
A brilliant description. Very helpful!
Same video vs TT and Gravel would be great!
Any considerations for cleat positions in road v mtb? I've been MTB'ing since the late 80's and have found foot positioning can play a bigger factor for steering then weighting the handle bars for cornering. I also think that cornering in the MTB world can be broken into two types. One is with saddle at full height and mostly then staying seated thru the corner. Second is what the majority of MTB'ing corner is these days and that is with the saddle lowered and thus standing with legs extended or bent to be able to move dynamically. This 2nd aspect of cornering is where the rider is putting the majority of their weight thru the pedals to influence the bike..
Thx. and... now pls do one vs gravel bikes!
Hi um here in Philippines we mostly use hardtail as our all around bike like mine mostly used on roads and long rides and sometimes on a trail. Is the bike fitting slightly same with the road bike?
What about bar sweep? I have a bar that I think doesn’t have enough sweep and I’ve been getting sore wrists
Thanks again! 😊 Would be nice for a video if your fit (especially reach and drop) should be the same across different road bikes, i.e touring bikes, gravel bikes, endurance bikes vs the fit on traditional racing bikes, aero bikes, etc.
Thanks for the suggestion Stefan, we'll add it to the list.
Isn’t it the opposite regarding stem and bar lengths to steering sensitivity? Shorter stem and wider bar reduce sensitivity and make steering more predictable. Longer stem and narrower bar make steering twitchy.
No and yes. Neill went independent in the analysis: A shorter stem is more twitchy, as is a shorter bar.
So if you make *both* shorter, it will get more twitchy. If you make one shorter and one longer, it might be more or less twitchy, depending on how those changes are relative to each other.
I know Cam you don’t do triathlons or TT but wow would be great to hear Neils take on that type of fit. I have lots of knowledge after years but Neil always has a different way of looking at rider and bike.
Thx.
On the list Jared, thanks for adding
Can’t wait for this one! Road & Triathlon
Another great video. Love the diversity in the content. Keep it up.
Cheers Gavin
I have an assortment of John Tomac , designed , Tioga Multi - Control saddles new in cardboard boxes . Who remembers these ? They are more downhill oriented but offer riding position manouverability .
Thank you for your useful video. I ride road bikes and I am new to MTB since I enjoy riding together with my little son who is a MTB fan. My worry is how shall I accommodate to the wider Q factor of the MTB. I would like to avoid an injury from the different Q. Any general advice would be helpful. Merry Christmas with health and prosperity.
I had to do a double take at the beginning when you were showing my local trails...
Great analysis as always. With respect to the saddle fore and aft on an XC bike, you mentioned pretty much setting up similar to the road bike. How much of an effect does seat tube angle play into this, let’s say, if the XC bikes seat tube is 1 degree slacker? Is 1 degree negligible?
Be interested to know what you think about switching between the road bike and the mtb. e.g. Monday road, tuesday mtb. etc. I really feel the difference in the Q factor and if i dont ride the roadie much and go back to it after a while, I get doms but never ever get doms on a mtb. This normal?
Many thanks to you and Neil for these brilliant videos!
I'm a nube in road cycling after few years of cross-country, and, after a couple of weeks trying and setting up my new road bike, I still start having some pain here and there after a couple hours of riding. Rides shorter than that are fine.
What do you think, should I continue setting up, or is it a good start already?
In other words, is the ideal position pain free for any ride duration? Or do I just need to get used to the new bike and longer rides anyway?
Depends where the pain is. If it's muscular stress, then I would say you're developing the conditioning you need to go long. It it's proper niggles that are lingering, I would say it's fit. Very hard to say. Cam
@@roadcyclingacademy Thanks Cam!
Really good advices. I do XC on normal trails here in Trondheim, Norway, nothing really extreme. I have a Cannondale Scalpel 2021 and I run some marathon races through out the sommer sesong, and I wonder what advices you have for such 40-100+km races?
Thanks! Many riders don’t put enough importance on reach, stack and seat height…and that’s fine, BUT ‘IF’ you want to really transform your riding experience…those 3 are crucial between ‘mmm’ to ‘great ride’. Thanks again guys!!! (I share these vids w/my USAF 🇺🇸 friends here in N.Italy 🇮🇹 btw)
Idk about the whole balance thing. Trough loose corners, or steep drops, I'm 99% of the time standing up anyways, so the saddle set back doesn't play a role here
I think running the saddle a bit more forward could help with climbing though
great video, thanks for explaining these concepts....time for Cam to follow Francis onto a mountain bike??
haha, not quite there yet.
But for MTB normally we are out of the saddle during cornering, also the saddle will be dropped for descending and riding drop offs, especially if you have a dropper post.
Good points, thanks for sharing on the thread Jeff.
Thanks so much. This was soooo helpful! I just had a bike fitting from a roadie who knew nothing about MTBs. He was obsessed with my seat height, which I thought was odd because I have a dropper. A waste of $325 US.
This video helped me so much for my new bike.
He should be obsessed with your seat height. That's 85% of good bike fit. The fact you have a dropper post doesn't mean the top point isn't massively important.
Can you do road vs cyclocross or gravel fits
Yes, we'll add it to the list of talking points Troy! Thanks for the suggestion. Cam
so it can be a challenge for those people who ride their MTB from home to local trail. especially when the ride on road takes longer than offroad
So would a hybrid bike/fitness bike be then in-between a road bike and MTB?
You could say that. Cam
What are the best practice for setting MTB fit for longer road distances without compromising trail ride too much?, I.e. for bike packing on a XC hard tail, for sections riding 40km/h mostly flat terrain? Anyone tried mounting aerobars for that alternative position? Or simply having lower handlebar/longer stem?
Historically there were bars like the Scott AT4. People are now trying inboard bar ends and stubby triathlon inspired aerobar style add-ons
I just did a 55 mile ride on a rail trail on my MTB. I had trouble with my knee's. Especially my left knee. I am twisting my left foot more often to get it out of my crank Bro. pedal. I'm thinking of lowering my saddle height slightly. A couple of more mm until my heel contacts the pedal. It's seat height is about what I have on my road bike which feels great on my road bike. I'm looking for suggestions. I'm not much of a single track rider and ride more on dirt road or logging road type of terrain. Any suggestions?
A question for Neill,,hopefully he can get to it for you Neal.
This is the best sum up of bike ergonomic i've seen. Maybe do a collab with Andrew "Doddie" Dodd from GMBN Tech - channel?
I want to buy a mtb to commute I'm a 189cm what reach should I be going for?
Get an electric commuter. They are so nice and comfy for commuting…not to mention much safer.
I am going to be an expert after listening to this... 😉😁
Next up, difference between road & gravel bike setup 👍
My knee seem doesn't like Mountainbike.. the q factor is killing my knee..
It can't go narrow on mtb..
Vica versa.. my knee still can compromise on roadbike...
Sometimes on my pedaling my right knee is hiting the top tube.. 🤭 but thats oke..
Leg length discrepancy... Duck foot, right feet morton neuroma.. scoliosis..
all this thing killing me on mtb...
👍
I so wanted an in video popup of the angry shouting commenting guy with the hat on that we normally see in other videos to butt in and abuse Cam for his lack of mountain bike prowess. Cam you at least need to give a mountain bike a try just to see what Neill is on about.
haha, I will!
The seat position hardly matters at all mountain biking, you shouldn't be seated cornering or going off drops anyways! And regardless of the seat position you can shift your weight wherever you like
If you're smashing around the local trails, you're right. If you ride 50-100+ miles, you sit down around most corners...
cmon Cam! rent a MTB for a day and get that adrenaline pumping, you will love it
haha, I have. Need to try it again
@@roadcyclingacademy
Or get one and do a fitting session
That bmc in the background is sexy
Agreed Fred, it's my favourite! Cam Ps- not sure on your other Q. Not my expertise. Cam
Some truly poor advice here and no mention of a dropper post. I would urge people to speak to someone who rides MTB for MTB bike fit advice.
Physio vs. youtube commenter... there is no bad advice here, unless you can point to something specific.