Also, the key to getting an excellent tone out of the banjo is knowing how to get rid of the "overtones". The "overtones" are what makes the banjo should "annoying" or "shrill" to the average layman who hates the sound of a banjo because they heard someone play who had annoying overtones.
Thank you very much , so many things that can go wrong and we must remember that we have chosen a technical difficult instrument that sounds awful to the surroundings when done bad. It is good to hear you telling us over and over again to play slow. By the way, slow banjo music is supercool and easy on your neighbors ears. Eli.... see if you can make us a slow twangy funky song that is meant to be played slow and we will learn it and the good habits along.
I subscribed after Jim Pankey recommend you. And I am glad I did. I look forward to learning the banjo with both Jim and your videos. Been watching for a while. But just got my Recording King RK76 2 days ago
I come back to this video all the time to check up on my technique. One thing I wanted to note was that Noam actually seems to identify as a 1-finger planter, or at least he did when he recorded his artistworks classes. His ring finger stays planted and his pinky kind of bobs up and down pretty close to the head. I've been playing with 2 planted for about a year and I'm starting to experiment with just my ring, and I think I might be a just-a-ring guy, so that was validating to learn.
I taped my 3rd and 4th fingers together when I practiced for three months. Now I know when I'm practicing too fast or too much when the pinkie moves off the head.
I stopped trying to plant a finger years ago. I don't touch the head at all now. My playing starting to immediately improve. I use a wooden armrest, shaped and especially designed to stabilize my hand. Sometimes I will use a wrist wrap. I have since seen other professional players that don't touch the head. Also, for modern progressive music, it is easier to get the rhythm that is needed with fingers off the head.
@@EliGilbertBanjo You see some players where it looks like they have the little finger planted. But they actually don't, but are just lightly touching the corner of their finger on the head and using it as a guide.
I started with plastic thumb picks from guitar. Got metal one with banjo and it was eh. Met a blue man group member as like a peace rite between our spiecies he offered me a handful of finger picks. And those were my favorite for a while really high quality ones they use. But they wore. Went back to metal. Wore it more. And now I prefer it. I do like the metal most now that I'm use to it, adapted playing, and wore out the sharpness of it. If thats all someone has. They should use like rough sandpaper or something to smooth it out.
Thanks for admitting that you only plant your little finger on the head. I'm still trying but feel like trying to plant my ring finger is causing the same tension in the middle finger and hand and always wants to travel somewhat with my middle finger hah
I see you use the SS picks with the wider bands. I had problems with the picks slipping off my fingers and that helped. After 10 years I still can't get rid of the tension sometimes. I really have to pay attention to that. Thanks for the video.
What if the ring finger keeps scraping the head when it moves? I only had that problem when switching to a banjo with lower action. Before I guess the fingers were high enough it didn’t matter
Very good instruction thanks. I have just started to try and learn to play the Banjo. I need a progression chart to follow as I keep jumping from 1 video to another! I will just keep watching yours and hope to get some form of advancement. Thanks Terry UK.
Plating both fingers also helps you play faster because the ring finger is is not moving, thereby cutting down on total hand movement (although it isn;t moving much compared to the picking fingers), but it DOES make a difference when it comes time to burn one down. Its like an engine with a shorter stroke can turn more revolutions easier than an engine with a longer stroke due to less total movement. Butch Robins is the best example I can think of who can play very fast without anchoring his ring finger, but I wonder how fast he could play if he did anchor both....
@@gelidsoul I know what u mean, as it took me about 3 weeks of practicing a couple of hours every day to get my ring finger to the point it would not move at all...about 46 years ago. LOL
Yes thank you. I have listened to quite a few. I hope you will accept one small suggestion which is that you could deliver your talks at a slower pace. I realize I am old and in the way but what you have to say is interesting. slowing down might make your delivery even more effective. Of course I can always “rewind”. :)
I have never played any string instrument so I am starting out not knowing nothing. You video was very helpful. A lot of the videos I have watched haven't even touched on any of the items you talked about. I bought a brand new middle of the road Banjo. I have watched numerous videos and the more I watch the more I get confused. Like you said everyone does things different. I know you need to practice at least 30 minutes a day if possible. I have got my pics and all set. But what do you recommend I do I have seen numerous roll patterns and not sure which one to start with or really what to do. I even enrolled in Banjo Ben Clark training and that didn't help a bit. He skipped over a lot of things in my opinion. I am trying to get started but almost giving up before I start. Any good advice for a beginner that is starting from scratch? I have looked and there is nobody around my area that teaches it either. Please help..... Thanks
I am almost embarrassed to admit that I play without picks. I was fingerpicking a guitar before messing with a banjo, so not using them came natural. I tried to use picks over the years, but it's like trying to learn a whole new instrument. I highly recommend using picks from the start. However, I still enjoy the hell out of it. I thought about getting some kind of pickup and amp, maybe even a volume pedal, in case I ever play with people, lol!
I use picks now. I just resolved to persevere and never pick without them. That is what I did. My main trouble I have is with the thumb pick placement. It feels most comfortable with the bottom of the pick a little below the bottom of my nail. It's a medium dunlop, but it tends to twist back too much after playing awhile. It's irritating having to fix it after every tune, Idk. Anyway, I can play with them, but there are a lot more nuances using them as opposed to bare fingers. I'm actually happy! Lol! Back at it tomorrow.
@@josephobrien991 We are on the exact same boat. Only recently started playing banjo, and for a bit, had no finger picks. Trying to force myself, and while I can manage, I really like being able to just grab the banjo, and go, rather than getting all set up with picks. Thumb also gives me the most trouble, but it really does sound so much better with the finger picks.
Thank you for this! I play mainly guitar, but I started banjo and mandolin last Christmas. I struggle with accuracy and with equalizing each note's loudness. I'm sure you have other videos on this, so I'll just keep looking. Found you on Mason Crone's discord. Subbed!!!
The guitar is soothing sounding because it is practically impossible to get overtones with it. With a banjo overtones are inherently part of the sound and MUST be controlled or the listener will hate the sound, no matter how well the picker plays.
Whoa! That's a truck load of info. I even tried taping my two fingers together. I was told I HAD to play with two fingers down. Had the same problem you had. Masters of the Five String Banjo has a wealth of info about pick and hand position, etc. etc. I find myself continually revisiting this "whole posture " thing. Call it mechanics, or what ever. It's about making good sound. It is not a contradiction to say being in harmony with your instrument will require some discipline. This is important stuff.
Nice breakdown, Eli. I wish this video was around when I started. I tried and tried to get both fingers on the head, but I just couldn't---I plant my ring finger---sometimes my pinky pops out like I'm drinking ritzy tea, and I'm a little self conscious of that, but it allows me to play with the most comfort, mobility and speed. I think I heard somewhere that Snuffy had a tea-pinky too...haha. Can't wait for the next segment on this ...interesting stuff and delivered well.
Steve-cs8nd 0 seconds ago Mandatory Anchoring is one of the most dangerous myths I have ever come across. Guys think forcing a finger to not move makes the others faster is just not true and is easily proved if one is honest and not married to his own reflections. 1: Any thing on the head is going to impair tone. 2: Optimum angle of attack is 90 degrees which anchors make impossible and give that squeak most all share in attack in the first contact. You want the main two knuckles parallel to the strings so you attack cleanly at 90 degrees with no slides squeaks. Set your “finger” picks so they have finger behind them for more tone control variability; not like flippers ( though some picks are very long open the collar so the end is just over the nail. Your the tip behind so really have something behind the flipper to control it or otherwise: more choice more control . If people want to anchor fine do it, but don’t sell myths as reality. There is no way on earth a player becomes faster when one or two fingers are forced to glue down. It defies logic and mechanics, and if I sit with you I can prove it will even make lifting one finger impossible; anchors by definition restrict movement not aid it quite aside from muting the tambourine or pot. As for accuracy it never bothered me none and JD Crow didn’t anchor for years and only did so for peer group pressure. I see hands that anchor well, and I see hands contorted from trying to do it. If it suits you do it but as a mandatory rule it’s hogwash and what is more it is dangerous hogwash as some will definitely develop RSI and Carple tunnel syndrome. I played classical guitar for 55 years and had not one iota of inaccuracy or lack of anything and banjo has been no different except I don’t use my ring finger in the bluegrass repertoire at least ( I’ll have to look when I play droney old Ruben lol weird things happen picken that ). In fact guitar teachers decry the habit of gluing fingers to the deck like a walking stick as incapacitating and they are right and it applies as much to banjo as well. Earl eventually abandoned anchoring completely 80% of the time too. I can’t remember where I read it but I read it while he was alive and played strung instruments for a loooong time; and if you have trouble anchoring don’t do it. It’s a myth and dangerous one ask any orthopaedic surgeon and I guarantee 100% The guys that triumph with dual anchors ( worst) do so in-spite of anchors not because of them. Play faster by nailing a finger to the head what rubbish. The armrest is the only anchor required and get a nice Snuffy normal spaced super fast bridge. In fact I see banjo players eventually adapting a thumb and three fingers technique in the future again like they used in the 19th century again soon because of the ability to play successive compound intervals and counter point as the used to also playing counterpointed rags and cakewalks and in Carulli’s Opus 1 120 exercises for the right hand plainly demonstrate. Picks however are mandatory in Bluegrass but you want finger behind the hook not flippers but some guys again triumph like yours truly and Sleepy man but it stands to reason no finger behind an overhanging flipper is beyond full control the thumb pick being a different thing entirely. It’s even able to be employed as a flat pick for brush swept arpeggios scales like Reno as well as combining with i m for Keith melodic patterns. Try this: lay your hand with the back of the palm flat on the table and the arched fingers all pressing their tips down. Now with out lifting any other finger try and raise your ringer? IT CANT BE DONE. And before you tell an orthopaedic surgeon “ we don’t pick with our ring finger” missing the whole point, the principle is obvious to any honest man that bows to truth and is not emotionally married to baloney. Any anchor impairs movement. That is what ANCHORS ARE FOR inhibiting movement not aiding precision. Intelligent Practice does the contrary. I don’t shave them or cut thumb picks down; tone balance is in the touch or toque as the the Flamencas say and it is equally true for all apoyando or Tirando attacked instruments including banja. It even flat picks sweep and alternating style and there is no reason not to.
![7 Bad Habits! Bluegrass Banjo Right Hand Technique [pt. 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WwfK8XuKocc/mqdefault.jpg)
![7 Bad Habits! Bluegrass Banjo Right Hand Technique [pt. 2]](/img/tr.png)
Also, the key to getting an excellent tone out of the banjo is knowing how to get rid of the "overtones". The "overtones" are what makes the banjo should "annoying" or "shrill" to the average layman who hates the sound of a banjo because they heard someone play who had annoying overtones.
You're a great person, Eli. Thank you.
I love your videos, Eli! They’ve helped me so much
Thank you very much , so many things that can go wrong and we must remember that we have chosen a technical difficult instrument that sounds awful to the surroundings when done bad. It is good to hear you telling us over and over again to play slow. By the way, slow banjo music is supercool and easy on your neighbors ears. Eli.... see if you can make us a slow twangy funky song that is meant to be played slow and we will learn it and the good habits along.
Been playing Banjo for almost 2 years now, This video helped me more then I realized! Thank you for the content!
I subscribed after Jim Pankey recommend you. And I am glad I did. I look forward to learning the banjo with both Jim and your videos. Been watching for a while. But just got my Recording King RK76 2 days ago
Glad to hear that Robert, hope you like your new banjo!
I come back to this video all the time to check up on my technique. One thing I wanted to note was that Noam actually seems to identify as a 1-finger planter, or at least he did when he recorded his artistworks classes. His ring finger stays planted and his pinky kind of bobs up and down pretty close to the head. I've been playing with 2 planted for about a year and I'm starting to experiment with just my ring, and I think I might be a just-a-ring guy, so that was validating to learn.
Thanks Eli, this is very helpful material and a great reminder of what to do right to improve playing. Glad I watched this. Thanks 👍
I taped my 3rd and 4th fingers together when I practiced for three months. Now I know when I'm practicing too fast or too much when the pinkie moves off the head.
Eli what about a blue chip thumb pick ? I have seen many guys using the blue chip thumb pick .
I stopped trying to plant a finger years ago. I don't touch the head at all now. My playing starting to immediately improve. I use a wooden armrest, shaped and especially designed to stabilize my hand. Sometimes I will use a wrist wrap. I have since seen other professional players that don't touch the head. Also, for modern progressive music, it is easier to get the rhythm that is needed with fingers off the head.
Sounds like you’ve got it figured out!
@@EliGilbertBanjo You see some players where it looks like they have the little finger planted. But they actually don't, but are just lightly touching the corner of their finger on the head and using it as a guide.
Thankyou so much this helped so much
I started with plastic thumb picks from guitar. Got metal one with banjo and it was eh. Met a blue man group member as like a peace rite between our spiecies he offered me a handful of finger picks. And those were my favorite for a while really high quality ones they use. But they wore. Went back to metal. Wore it more. And now I prefer it. I do like the metal most now that I'm use to it, adapted playing, and wore out the sharpness of it. If thats all someone has. They should use like rough sandpaper or something to smooth it out.
This is all super informative and solid advice. Thanks for making these videos Eli!
Thanks man, hope you’re well!
Thanks for admitting that you only plant your little finger on the head. I'm still trying but feel like trying to plant my ring finger is causing the same tension in the middle finger and hand and always wants to travel somewhat with my middle finger hah
I see you use the SS picks with the wider bands. I had problems with the picks slipping off my fingers and that helped. After 10 years I still can't get rid of the tension sometimes. I really have to pay attention to that. Thanks for the video.
The tendon of the ring and middle finger are connected..so planting just the little finger makes sense.
What if the ring finger keeps scraping the head when it moves? I only had that problem when switching to a banjo with lower action. Before I guess the fingers were high enough it didn’t matter
Very good instruction thanks. I have just started to try and learn to play the Banjo. I need a progression chart to follow as I keep jumping from 1 video to another! I will just keep watching yours and hope to get some form of advancement. Thanks Terry UK.
Try my 30 Day beginner series! ua-cam.com/play/PLE248-wQeZu8QaJYOzjxG5VLGN6zlIRGM.html
How you doing after 1 year ? I’ve just started & finding it difficult.
Thanks for 📫
I can’t seem to keep my pinky from bending the wrong way when I plant. How do I keep a loose enough pinky when I play?
Thank you so much Eli!!!
Plating both fingers also helps you play faster because the ring finger is is not moving, thereby cutting down on total hand movement (although it isn;t moving much compared to the picking fingers), but it DOES make a difference when it comes time to burn one down. Its like an engine with a shorter stroke can turn more revolutions easier than an engine with a longer stroke due to less total movement. Butch Robins is the best example I can think of who can play very fast without anchoring his ring finger, but I wonder how fast he could play if he did anchor both....
Wrong!
The tendons in your hand affect using the ring finger in this way in a lot of people ….
Even when planting both my ring finger wants to move
@@gelidsoul I know what u mean, as it took me about 3 weeks of practicing a couple of hours every day to get my ring finger to the point it would not move at all...about 46 years ago. LOL
@@davidlee-vm9ub so there's hope after all! haha thank you!
Yes thank you. I have listened to quite a few. I hope you will accept one small suggestion which is that you could deliver your talks at a slower pace. I realize I am old and in the way but what you have to say is interesting. slowing down might make your delivery even more effective. Of course I can always “rewind”. :)
If you tap the video and then the 3 dots you can adjust the speed up or down of the video speed.
Old & In The Way is a hell of a group!
I have never played any string instrument so I am starting out not knowing nothing. You video was very helpful. A lot of the videos I have watched haven't even touched on any of the items you talked about. I bought a brand new middle of the road Banjo. I have watched numerous videos and the more I watch the more I get confused. Like you said everyone does things different. I know you need to practice at least 30 minutes a day if possible. I have got my pics and all set. But what do you recommend I do I have seen numerous roll patterns and not sure which one to start with or really what to do. I even enrolled in Banjo Ben Clark training and that didn't help a bit. He skipped over a lot of things in my opinion. I am trying to get started but almost giving up before I start. Any good advice for a beginner that is starting from scratch? I have looked and there is nobody around my area that teaches it either. Please help..... Thanks
I am almost embarrassed to admit that I play without picks. I was fingerpicking a guitar before messing with a banjo, so not using them came natural. I tried to use picks over the years, but it's like trying to learn a whole new instrument. I highly recommend using picks from the start. However, I still enjoy the hell out of it. I thought about getting some kind of pickup and amp, maybe even a volume pedal, in case I ever play with people, lol!
I use picks now. I just resolved to persevere and never pick without them. That is what I did. My main trouble I have is with the thumb pick placement. It feels most comfortable with the bottom of the pick a little below the bottom of my nail. It's a medium dunlop, but it tends to twist back too much after playing awhile. It's irritating having to fix it after every tune, Idk. Anyway, I can play with them, but there are a lot more nuances using them as opposed to bare fingers. I'm actually happy! Lol! Back at it tomorrow.
@@josephobrien991 We are on the exact same boat. Only recently started playing banjo, and for a bit, had no finger picks. Trying to force myself, and while I can manage, I really like being able to just grab the banjo, and go, rather than getting all set up with picks. Thumb also gives me the most trouble, but it really does sound so much better with the finger picks.
Thank you for this! I play mainly guitar, but I started banjo and mandolin last Christmas. I struggle with accuracy and with equalizing each note's loudness. I'm sure you have other videos on this, so I'll just keep looking. Found you on Mason Crone's discord. Subbed!!!
Thanks. Really helpful.
Glad to hear that!
Look at JD's hand position, how his wrist is cocked. JD is the best
The guitar is soothing sounding because it is practically impossible to get overtones with it. With a banjo overtones are inherently part of the sound and MUST be controlled or the listener will hate the sound, no matter how well the picker plays.
Whoa! That's a truck load of info. I even tried taping my two fingers together. I was told I HAD to play with two fingers down. Had the same problem you had.
Masters of the Five String Banjo has a wealth of info about pick and hand position, etc. etc. I find myself continually revisiting this "whole posture " thing. Call it mechanics, or what ever. It's about making good sound. It is not a contradiction to say being in harmony with your instrument will require some discipline. This is important stuff.
Thank you! I tried tape, rubber bands, all kinds of things!
Is it just practice to learn to hit the right strings? I seems to always miss the correct cord...
Yes!
Didn't Earl Scruggs say that as he played for years and years he completely stopped planting any fingers? I thought I read that somewhere
What's the song playing at the end of the video?
I am attempting to learn finger roll Skruggs style
i love you
Nice breakdown, Eli. I wish this video was around when I started. I tried and tried to get both fingers on the head, but I just couldn't---I plant my ring finger---sometimes my pinky pops out like I'm drinking ritzy tea, and I'm a little self conscious of that, but it allows me to play with the most comfort, mobility and speed. I think I heard somewhere that Snuffy had a tea-pinky too...haha. Can't wait for the next segment on this ...interesting stuff and delivered well.
I think planting both fingers is only if you have long enough fingers ,I use one finger as my hands ,according to my kids are like shreks
My problem is lopping in my roll.
*i play rhytm games i got this* oh god i dont got this
6 minutes? Jesus fuck
From Europe, I'd say your choice of a machine-gun rate of delivery is not helpful. Bit of a torrent of words.
You can slow the video in the settings
Steve-cs8nd
0 seconds ago
Mandatory Anchoring is one of the most dangerous myths I have ever come across.
Guys think forcing a finger to not move makes the others faster is just not true and is easily proved if one is honest and not married to his own reflections.
1: Any thing on the head is going to impair tone. 2: Optimum angle of attack is 90 degrees which anchors make impossible and give that squeak most all share in attack in the first contact. You want the main two knuckles parallel to the strings so you attack cleanly at 90 degrees with no slides squeaks.
Set your “finger” picks so they have finger
behind them for more tone control variability; not like flippers ( though some picks are very long open the collar so the end is just over the nail. Your the tip behind so really have something behind the flipper to control it or otherwise: more choice more control . If people want to anchor fine do it, but don’t sell myths as reality. There is no way on earth a player becomes faster when one or two fingers are forced to glue down. It defies logic and mechanics, and if I sit with you I can prove it will even make lifting one finger impossible; anchors by definition restrict movement not aid it quite aside from muting the tambourine or pot. As for accuracy it never bothered me none and JD Crow didn’t anchor for years and only did so for peer group pressure.
I see hands that anchor well, and I see hands contorted from trying to do it.
If it suits you do it but as a mandatory rule it’s hogwash and what is more it is dangerous hogwash as some will definitely develop RSI and Carple tunnel syndrome.
I played classical guitar for 55 years and had not one iota of inaccuracy or lack of anything and banjo has been no different except I don’t use my ring finger in the bluegrass repertoire at least ( I’ll have to look when I play droney old Ruben lol weird things happen picken that ).
In fact guitar teachers decry the habit of gluing fingers to the deck like a walking stick as incapacitating and they are right and it applies as much to banjo as well.
Earl eventually abandoned anchoring completely 80% of the time too.
I can’t remember where I read it but I read it while he was alive and played strung instruments for a loooong time; and if you have trouble anchoring don’t do it. It’s a myth and dangerous one ask any orthopaedic surgeon and I guarantee 100%
The guys that triumph with dual anchors ( worst) do so in-spite of anchors not because of them.
Play faster by nailing a finger to the head what rubbish. The armrest is the only anchor required and get a nice Snuffy normal spaced super fast bridge.
In fact I see banjo players eventually adapting a thumb and three fingers technique in the future again like they used in the 19th century again soon because of the ability to play successive compound intervals and counter point as the used to also playing counterpointed rags and cakewalks and in Carulli’s Opus 1 120 exercises for the right hand plainly demonstrate.
Picks however are mandatory in Bluegrass
but you want finger behind the hook not flippers but some guys again triumph like yours truly and Sleepy man but it stands to reason no finger behind an overhanging flipper is beyond full control the thumb pick being a different thing entirely. It’s even able to be employed as a flat pick for brush swept arpeggios scales like Reno as well as combining with i m for Keith melodic patterns.
Try this: lay your hand with the back of the palm flat on the table and the arched fingers all pressing their tips down. Now with out lifting any other finger try and raise your ringer? IT CANT BE DONE.
And before you tell an orthopaedic surgeon “ we don’t pick with our ring finger” missing the whole point, the principle is obvious to any honest man that bows to truth and is not emotionally married to baloney.
Any anchor impairs movement. That is what ANCHORS ARE FOR inhibiting movement not aiding precision. Intelligent Practice does the contrary.
I don’t shave them or cut thumb picks down; tone balance is in the touch or toque as the the Flamencas say and it is equally true for all apoyando or Tirando attacked instruments including banja. It even flat picks sweep and alternating style and there is no reason not to.
Nothing is mandatory.