Making a violin - step 4 - joining of the top
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2017
- In this series I'll show and explain how a violin is build.
For this instrument I use a single piece bird-eye maple back and scroll and a spruce top. I build the violin on the A. Stradivari 1715 model.
In this video I explain how the pieces of wood are cut out of the tree log and I make the joint of the top.
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Music:
J.S. Bach, Sonata nr.1 in G minor, first movement
Violin:
Petros Christidis / petroschristidisviolinist
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Why do you use the different cuts of wood?
Good question Richard Bekking! For the top, we always use the quarter cat. In this way, the year rings are in the same direction as the force that comes from the strings via the bridge. For the back one can use both, and is more of an aesthetic than mechanical matter. Especially for bird-eye maple, the pattern comes more to its value when cut in the tangential way than quarter. Of course, we keep in mind that tangential cut wood is a bit weaker than quarter cut so the thickness must compensate this. I’ll talk more about this in the following episodes when working on the thickness of the back.
maestro-Kimon
I heard from one old violinist player that the violin with a whole back usually have more powerful and penetrative sound because in this case the back vibrates like one piece. You wrote above that tangential cut is weeker than the quarter one. Please, can you comment who is right? Thank you.
Dear Pavel. The problem and grace of violin-making is that there is no right or wrong. Of course the two different ways to cut the wood influence the sound on a different way. The fact that the tangential cut is weaker is not a fact with negative effects on the sound but a fact that you have to consider during the process. weaker wood doesn't have to mean weaker sound us you compensate by making the thickness slightly higher.
I just wanted to say that I appreciate the work you put into the making of this video series. I'm a musician and a very amateur luthier looking for sources to help me understand how to construct string instruments. I doubt I will ever make a violin but I want the knowledge from violin construction to be the basis of how I make anything.
The series is very informative and I love you approach and sense of humour.
Thank you very much for your kind words! Why not give it a try? you might make a nice instrument!
The in-screen link at the end of this video (Violin #4 going into Violin #5) actually directs a viewer to Part #6 of Making of a Pouchette. ? Imagine my surprise. lol I thot, I obv don't know anything about this but....damn? Just there to keep us on our toes. I get it. Seriously tho, a great series. You obv know what you're doing and many thanks for putting this together. It's very informative and interesting.
Like the way you work!
this is a great video! thank you very much
Very informative on how the violin is made. I learned a lot from just this video...
Thank you!!!
Honestly, you should participate in "how do they do it?"
Anticipating for the rest of the story!!! Outstanding!!!
Thank you! This is more of an "How do I do it"!!!!!!
Some violin makers will hate you!!!
Good bless you generosity!!!!
Thank you for your kind words!
wonderful knowledge thank you for shering this video with us simple mortals
Simple mortal, you are welcome! 😁 And thank you for your kind words!
Nicely explained
Μπράβο Κίμωνα για την προσπάθεια σου.
Ευχαριστώ πολύ Κώστα!
Amazing, as a violinist I am sooo intrigued by this
Hannah Woolmer Thank you very much! Good to hear that you like it! Stay tuned (subscribe) so you don't miss the next one, I'm already working on it!
Already have :-)
Very Interesting THANK YOU
very nice!!! im loving these videos
Thank you!!!
Wonderful video with useful information.
Good to hear, thank you!
This is amazing.!
Thank you very much for sharing your kwonlegde with us my friend Kimon! one day I will make one.
I wish you, all your dreams become true.
Thanksgiving from Greece.
Ευχαριστώ πολύ!!!
very interesting video, thanks.
Thank you for your kind words!
very nice and interesting vid. Thanks
Thank you Marco! Don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss the next ones!
I really enjoy your violin making tutorials, even though you look serious, you made me laugh with the editing, 4:57 was very clever and funny!! Keep doing them, I can't wait for the next one. Greeting from Argentina!!
Thank you so much! It's not so much that I am serious as concentrated to keep everything together! I'll keep your suggestion in mind for the next ones! Greetings from Holland!
WOW is too nice
Thank you!
hello friend good content, it is valuable that you convey your knowledge! Greetings from a colleague in Argentina!
Hello Jeremias! thank you for your kind words!
... wine boxes in the background ;-)
Yes... they aren't there anymore! Guess why!!!!
;-)
Thanks for the amazing videos! im from brazil and im will build a rabeca, a kind of popular violin, so i can play forró XD your videos are helping me to learning how to and you give informations that i could not find in other sites os videos!
Thank you very much for your kind words. Good luck making your rabeca!
"This is a tree" ahhahaahahahah sei un grande!!
É importante sapere di cosa parliamo!!!!!!!!!! 😂😂
@@maestrokimon :D Colgo l'occasione per farti i complimenti sia per l'ironia che per la tua maestria nel produrre lo strumento musicale. La tua spiegazione è lineare e diretta e fai sembrare la cosa semplice. Ma sappiamo, almeno noi italiani, quanto è duro e lungo il percorso formativo presso la scuola internazionale di Cremona, e la relativa pratica successiva. Ti auguro ogni successo presente e futuro, per la tua magica ed entusiasmante professione. Grazie Maestro! (pardon per averti scritto in italiano... ma prendila come una buona scusa per rinfrescarlo)
I find it fascinating that different luthiers have such different methods. I have not seen anyone do a two piece belly plate as you do it. I am interested to see the end result.
You know, there are more way to go to Rome!!! There is no write or wrong, as long as you are happy with the result.. Don't forget to subscribe so you wont miss the upcoming videos!
Muito bom
Thank you Natan! Don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss the next ones!
could you make a video on how you sharpen and set up your hand plane?
Bravo kimon ! you always are very educational and amusing at the same time. thank you
p.s i thought the other way than the quarter cut was known as 'cut at the slab'
Thank you Petrostheviolinist! I have never heard that name for that type of cut but I will have a look! In the upcoming video I'm going to explain some more things about wood cutting.
you are very welcome my friend. I think it's just a different name for the type of cut you mentioned already. My violin back is also cut in that way
Made it :)
I have a stentor violin and I would loved to have eye or knots on the backside of it looks great love your passion maestro.
Thank you!
3:21 the flash
I just made a "violin" out of wood that I encraved with edges, as a bowl.
It sounds suprisingly good, as my first "violin". The next will be more traditional.
Sounds nice! Feel free to send me some pics, I'm curious to see it.
the Best Maestro with sense of Humor.. LOL
Let's not take it too serious!!!!!!!!
These are great videos, and you explain everything very unpretentiously! Can you explain why you use the inside of the quarter cut spruce to form the outside of the top? It seems to me like if you put the inside on the bottom, then it would be easier to get a flat surface for glueing the ribs.
The two parts of the inside are much closer than the respective parts of the outside. In this way we have as close as possible acoustic characteristics under both feet of the bridge.
@@maestrokimon That's fascinating, thank you!
oh great fractions
Loving the series. I have a question re split tonewood. Does it normally come pre split as in your video or do you have to request it in a certain way?
Thank you! As far as I know, when you buy a piece of wood for violin it is cut like mine is.
These are the best videos I ever watched on UA-cam, period. Now I want to try (and fail) at making one myself! Do you think it is at all possible for an hobbyist musician to slowly learn how to do all this in his free time? :) ps: are you Italian? Ciao!
Thank you so much for your kind words! Don't be afraid to fail, by trying you already succeed!! I'm Greek-Dutch, but studied in Italy. Ciao!
Where can I buy quarter cut wood? I have never seen this in my area (Netherlands).
You can find it in specialized wood shops, unfortunately not in The Netherlands.
The stamp, VIT 61, does that refer to the year it was cut and stored to dry? Or, just their way of identifying a certain type of wood?
It's their way to identify the quality.
Thats a handy saw you have there... nice size to do small rips... are you able to provide some info on it please? Thanks 😊
It's this one: www.dictum.com/en/japanese-saws-baaa/z-saw-kataba-mini-175-crosscut-712467
@@maestrokimon brilliant, thank you so much....love the video series too. We take so much for granted in these days of instant gratification so its good to be reminded of artisans such as yourself who put so much of themselves into an instrument such as the violin. Thank you.
Please tell me if yew and walnut trees are good for making violin with high quality sound???I live in Iran and these trees are available for me (lm new to making violin)
I'm afraid not. The proper woods are maple and spruce. But if you cant find these you could use beech, palisander, oak or even poplar instead of maple and some kind of spruce or pine (or other evergreen tree). The most important is that they have no knots. As you understand by using other kinds of wood the sound will be inferior.
Kimon, What saw do you use for ripping the top wood? How do you prepare the top for ripping to make sure you that you can a clean straight edge?
I'm not sure that I understud your question. Do you mean how I cut the wood in two pieces? The wood block I had was already cut for 95% in half. I only had to cut the last part so I didn't have to prepare anything. Is that what you mean?
If you had already 95% cut it, how did you manage to get such a straight cut so that the two pieces came out pretty much identical.
Thanks
Nick
The wood was already cut but I didn't cut it. When I bought the wood it was already like that. That is often the case when you buy wood for violins but not always.
I have a friend who is recently learning woodworking and I've been showing him your videos. He's a guitarist, but I have been teaching him some basics on the violin, and he once played double bass in school. I have a few questions, though some questions I will send to you on your website or maybe via e-mail, as I am interested in purchasing one of your instruments. Do you have a favourite or preferred violin model to make vs. to play? What differences can you speak to in terms of general sound and feel between Stradivari, Guarneri, Stainer, Amati, etc.? Do you have any experience in carving decorative, non-traditional scrolls? I personally love the small, elegant differences in the traditional scroll, but I have always wanted to experiment with a scroll in the shape of a snake's head, as it has special cultural significance to me. Thank you for this series and sharing so much insight/information!
Hello meghann. Can you send me an e-mail? I will try to reply to all your questions.
@@maestrokimon I've sent the e-mail at last, Maestro. Thank you!
Hello please tell me which type of wood you used .
Tariq Hussain for the top, spruce, the blocks willow, back ribs and scroll maple. You can buy wood at www.grandiliutai.it.
where are you ? very intrersed . which country and city ?
Thank you . kevin
I live in The Nethelrands, in Amersfoort. And you?
Is your work bench a custom made job or did you buy it as a kit?
I bought it here in The Netherlands at Baptist.nl but I don't know if they send abroad.
Por favor mim tire uma dúvida ,se eu fazer um violino de uma madeira mais pesada dessa que vc usa altera muito o som?
Sorry but I don't understand your question. Maybe in English?
Doesnt synthetic glue disintegrate after say 20 to 30 years? I was told that is why i should use hot glue everywhere. Thanks for this series!
In which country, and city of Europe, can I buy spruce pine, or "Picea"? Does anyone know any website? Thank you so much !
You can buy wood at www.dictum.com/en/ and www.ciresafiemme.it
hi..can i do the top from on piece ?..and can i make violin from beech wood there is no maple in my country?...and thanks
Hello Mostafa Mahmood. Can you send me an e-mail? You can find my address in the About tab.
You could make a top from one piece. It's not usual, and not the way it should be but I have seen it a couple of times. You cal also use beech wood for the back, ribs and scroll. Please send me an e-mail, maybe we can arrange something.
Sept.07,2023.✝️
Hide glue is used for the joint, not pvc glue.
Dear John Schmidt, thank you for your comment. You are right, it's tradition to use hide glue. As I explain in the video I use the synthetic one because the joint of the top and back are irreversible joints (you wont ever need do separate them again) so it's safer to use the synthetic one. This glue has also no effect on the sound so it's totally fine to use it.
Most other videos I watch, the bottom is made in two pieces of maple and the top is made of a single piece of spruce. Why do you choose to make the top in two pieces? Just curious.
Almost 100% of the tops are from two pieces. The back is often from one piece. The top is made in this way as we try to have the same structure and sound characteristics under both feet of the bridge.
What's your sizes of spruce and maple sheets? Thank you!
40cm long, 15cm wide and 5cm thick for violin, quarter cut.
@@maestrokimon So the minimum thickness for one board is 25mm?
The high of the arching will be about 15mm when finished (depending on the model you are making). You have to cut the piece in half to make the joint (at least for the top) and will need to plane the lower surface completely flat. So 40mm is the bare minimum.
There's a very useful tool right behind you. Why not use the bandsaw to cut the edge blocks out instead of a hand saw?
That's also a way to go! but not everyone has one so I showed the alternative way.
@@maestrokimon Yes, that's fair enough.
What is a latin name the wood of ribs and back ? If you know .
The wood is called "maple", in latin "acernis"
as an aspiring violin-maker, I too have no idea what a tree is.
That's why I start by explaining it! 😂😂😂
I appreciate it very much, thank you
Will you make a viola with a 51 centimeter body?
Are you asking me to make a viola for you, or to make video's about it?
@@maestrokimon I just wanted to see a bigger viola because I'd read that their bodies' should be bigger to match the frequency of their strings. Yesterday I finally did find a video of one with the title of something like: "Introducing The Violin Quartet," so I'm satisfied.
6:35 can you use a chisel instead of a hammer?
Yes of course.
why are the top pieces not separated completely at first? wouldn't it be easier if you got them separated from the start?
In this way you keep the two parts always together. Otherwise you could mes up different parts from different sets when you have a lot of wood or when the wood is still at the shop.
maestro-Kimon okay, thanks. And how do you pick the wood? And how much does the whole wood cost you? And could you please do video (along with the series) which would show some MUST HAVE tools for beginning violin makers? Sorry for such questionfull comment but I am curious. And the last one : How long does it take to make a violin (usually and if you are trying to be as quick as possible)?
Picking the wood... this is a difficult question to answer so. Mostly, depending on you budged you chose a quality at the supplier and then you have a look for the piece that you mostly like. Straight grain, well flamed back, matching scroll and fine, straight grained top. I'm already working on a video about the tools, keep tuned so you won't miss it! and finally to make a violin as an expert professional you need 2 weeks (of 40 hours) and the you need to varnish it. As a starter, maybe 6 months depending on how much time you have.
Thanks and Happy New Year :)
Happy new year to you too!!!
name of wood ?
Jeff
Why the top wood of violin joined.? Instead making the bottom joined,just like stratavarian....
Actually, what you are describing is called 'radial sawn' and is superior to quarter sawn, but results in more wastage.
Thank you!
"This is a tree"
It's good to know where we start!!!
What kind of tree?
Any tree will do?
What kind of wood is the back and sides?
For the top you have to use Spruce, the back, ribs and scroll are of maple.
Plastik wood - polypropilen
I always wanted to know what those were ... :(
Where u get your wood from?
Hello Fernando. Let me know where you live so I can recommend you a supplier.
Malaysia.
Fernando Jesus let me ask here and there and let you know after the weekend.
You can contact www.grandiliutai.it at info@grandiliutai.it I spoke with them this weekend and they could send you some wood. Tell them that you spoke with me via UA-cam.
Thank you! Do you know how muck a set will cost me?
0:40 the more you know
It's good to start with the basics!
maestro-Kimon yeah I’m not hating, just found it funny :)
Of course not my friend! No bad feelings hear! I hope you enjoy my videos!
The more you know
🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈⭐️
b
Tiene acento español.
No, this is Greek accent!
0:40 Oh its a fucking tree
It's good to start with the basics!
Is there any way to tell if a luthier is making his violins from scratch or from a 50% finished kit, or buying a violin from China and slapping his name on it. If you can't see the luthier's shop in person to see his stock of wood, and you only have access to his website and he does not show any pictures of his wood, what are some ways to verify that you're dealing with an honest luthier, and you're really getting what you're paying for.
Hello Mark. This is a hard question. It'a matter of trust if the violinmaker never publishes pictures of the construction of the instrument. If you want you can ask him to send you pic of his available wood so you can make a choice. Otherwise you have to find a reputable violinmaker that you can trust.
3:21 this is wrong in so many ways.
GameMaster Tristan what do you mean?
To split such a panel without an electric belt saw you need to place it into a vice and use a larg rip saw or a large kataba. Holding it freely on a table by hand using an undersized saw would produce a complete mess in real life. Here: maestronet.com/forum/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-25163-0-82523700-1390576251.jpg
I think that you missed something. In the few seconds before you can see that the piece of wood is already cut. Only the last corner keeps the two parts together. This is how most wood is sold, so we don't need to have a big bend saw.
Hide glue sounds better, Hide glue will always sound better. I'd rather use shoe polish mixed with greyhound shit than use white glue for anything tonal
The amount of glue that remains between the two parts is maybe less than 0,5 grams and for this reason neglectable. It is also impossible to compare the sound quality of white glue with hide glue as you immediately also compare the 99% of the other
components of the instrument (strings, bridge, fittings, varnish, ef-holes, bass bar, thickness of the blades and of course the different sound quality of the wood). I think that there are other parts that influence the sound much more (like the
thickness of the blades and the bass bar) than this >0,5 grams of glue. If you try your gluing method give an up-date on the results (as you know the biggest discoveries happened by accident)! 😉
have it your way dude, I know guys who use white glue successfully like yourself. A simple test for a glues tonality is using a cheap guitar you can remove the bridge and reglue, it's tedious but that's why we do this kind of stuff. Haha i think the hide glue smells bad enough already