Excellent pros and cons Jack. Nailed it! I started my sourdough with a stone and still use it for double bread bakes, ciabattas, baguettes and pizza but I use a large dutch oven for my single loaves. I find it easier to regulate the bake with the dutch oven but it has its restrictions in shape and bread types.
the pluses and minuses are clear and you nailed it. I had to go for the dutch over. I have a very thick steel and tried it but my oven does not keep steam in it at all. great for beef or turkey or pies which do not require any steam. The parchment sling makes it possible as well. thanks for your vids you really know how to demystify baking, and have fun!
Great video! One thing though…you can actually make oval shaped loaves in a round Dutch oven. It works! I’ve baked the Bake with Jack sourdough recipe (as an oval/batard) in my 6 qt Lodge Dutch oven, which is 12 inches or 30cm round.
Great video Jack! I only bake one loaf at a time, so have been using Dutch Ovens, cast iron and clay, different shapes. I also started baking cold. A tip from your Countryman, Elaine Foodbod. Regards from NJ.
I use old Le Creuset pans as a Dutch oven on top of a pizza stone, so best of both👌🏼 I don’t use parchment paper and it doesn’t stick but I bake at 260C 🔥 for the first 20 min, then reduce to 200C for the remaining 20 min.
My favourite closed system was a rectangular Pyrex casserole. It gave the best colour and crust appearance and then I dropped the lid 😱 I have 2 sizes of clay Romertopf and a Cousances Dutch oven. I like the way the containers help push up the loaves.
I started with Jacks Method, but found pancakes to begin with but conquered it later! Then I found Foodgeeks no kneed method less regimented and use that all the time now. But for baking I use 1 lb tins with another on top and that is like a DO. If using a round Benetton I have a stainless steel bowl which fits over like a DO on the baking stone. My NEFF fan oven flows the steam from the pan out so now I fold a T towel and jamb it in the top vent as well as spritzing. Bake for 20, lids off, spritz for another 20. Success every time. I can get the banneton and 1 tin in the oven together or 2 tins. Great vid Jack, always an interesting story
Hi Jack, my oven couldn’t stay hot, with a steam tray laying at the bottom over the heating element, and just generally sucked (it’s electric). Then I tried my dutch oven and it was a game changer, the loaves have been so beautiful. I now have 2 dutch ovens so I can bake my 2 loaves. The dutch ovens fixed my ‘oven problem’.
So good to have you back! I was up early stateside baking some chocolate sourdough and a couple of batards of regular.And I got to do it with you, Jack. Thank you.
When I started baking sourdough loaves during lockdown I was worried about what kit I needed and didn’t want to spend a fortune. I baked in a Pyrex casserole and was successful enough that I never went down the road of baking stones or Dutch ovens per se. I DID buy another casserole though and I now bake 2 at a time in my Pyrex casseroles which I put in the oven to preheat when I turn the oven on. It works for me and has saved me a lot of money.
The irony is that I use Pyrex on a baking stone. My gas oven doesn't keep steam at all, so the Pyrex. The stone then evens the temperature a bit. Nice results every time! Yet another nifty feature of Pyrex is transparency, -- no need to wait 20 minutes to see what's happening.
Thank you Jack! I always use the Dutch oven because I find it easier. I love your sling because I am nervous about burning my hands as I drop the dough in. I’m so glad you covered this topic because I do have a question. I have read other Dutch oven methods: 1- use a cold oven, place dutch oven with bread inside, bake 40 mins,then remove lid for additional 10-15 mins baking to get golden color. 2- I let the dough have it’s final rise in the dutch oven; score the surface, spray with water and then place in pre-heated oven to bake 30-40 mins lid on and again 10 mins lid off. What are your thoughts? Method 1 I believe was used for a no knead bread fyi. Love you Jack, this is another great video. Very helpful…BIG THANKS!!
Hi Jack. Adapted this slightly with mixed results! Used your standard yeasted loaf recipe and at pre shape stage I shaped one ball into a bloomer and the other reshaped again into a ball. The 'ball' went into a large casserole dish with lid on , the bloomer onto a baking tray with parchment (dont have a baking stone or steel). Oven had been preheated ag 230c for half hour. After 20 mins took casserole lid off for final 20 mins. Couldn't add tray of water for steam as no room left in oven ! After 40 mins the round cob loaf looked brilliant , nice and golden with lovely cross where I'd scored it. The bloomer however was a very unattractive dirty brown colour with no ear (a slight separation but not great), presumably as I had used a baking tray not stone (although it had been preheated so the tray was very hot!). The bloomer tastes fine, and was crusty even with no steam) it just looks unattractive to present. Not tried cob yet but looks just brilliant. Can't understand why bloomer looks like it does when it's the same dough , kneaded the same etc etc?? Is it too ambitious to bake different shape loaves at the same time?? Was it because 230c was too high for the bloomer?
Another great vid Jack. Two things to add: Our big American ranges (generally 30") can easily accommodate TWO 5 Qt. Dutch ovens (Lodge L8DD3) simultaneously, which are a necessity for baking sourdough, since our ovens are all vented. I remember jealously eyeing your sealed Hotpoint oven that always bakes with a fan. And your studio wall oven also seems to be quite sealed. I've talked to major manufacturers and no one offers a sealed oven here :-(
Cutting before going in the pan gives you more room to move the lame (cutter). I do 20 minutes with lid and 30 minutes without lid. It is the only way I've done it (in dutch oven). I do finally have a stone now so will be trying your preferred way. Love your videos. Thank you so much!! :)
I’ve been using pampered chef stoneware with double roasting pans. A nice small crock fits inside the large and I pour the hot water into that crock for the first round of baking. And it is so deliciously moist and lifting up so great. You have helped me so much with sourdough. I’ve been having to use an internal temperature probe and getting it to 215 degrees.
Hi Jack. Thanks to you shop bought bread is a thing of the past (for almost a year) with a Dutch oven. I’ve found best uniform results by 1: only preheating the base (and not the lid) 2: cooking for 15 at starting high heat, dropping temp to 190c for 10 mins lid still on and then 15-20 mins for the last part. Brilliant. Oh and couldn’t help but notice that you have the fabulous Challenger Dutch oven on top of your oven. I’m saving up for one of those. Excellent design. Love your work and enthusiasm.
Great pros and cons. Here is something to think about.... I use the old blue with white speckled enamelware on steel roasting pans. They heat up very quickly in the oven, so I don't have to leave them in there to heat more than 5 minutes. They also cool down quickly once baking is done. Mine are oval because I like the shape for sandwiches. Consistent oven spring. Usually the height is about 4.5 inches at the middle. Color is even all the way around. I, too, use parchment paper. Thanks for the tip about cutting for the handle (cute). One thing about the parchment paper, I place the paper on top of the dough in the basket, then with one hand on the paper and one under the basket I flip the basket, there is less chance of slipping of the dough. Oh, I've been using AP (10% protein) flour, but adding VWG to bring it too 12% for bread, and 14% for pizza dough.
I have a very large oval Dutch oven, so have no restriction on the shape of the loaves I can make. Used both methods, and as I usually only need to make one loaf at a time, find the Dutch oven easier to use, with more consistent results. The Thermal mass of the oven and the Dutch oven combined, plus the always retained moisture due to the initial lid on bake work very well, given great oven spring, and give very good ears. I sprayed more water in a couple of times, and it didn’t make any noticeable difference, so I didn’t carry on with that. 250-260C for first 20 minutes and 230C for the last 20-25, with the lid off. If I’m making more than one loaf (which is rare), then a stone is my go to option, although I have to cover the vent in the oven door for the first 10 minutes or so, to keep more/most of the steam in.
Jack, I use my mother's old Pyrex 2 quart green glass casserole dish. So I let the dough rise overnight in the fridge in the casserole dish, but lightly covered with cloth. In the morning I dust up the casserole lid, put in place and turn the whole thing over. Then I remove the bottom, take the cloth off, and put the bottom back in place--which is now the top lol It cooks covered like that for the first bit, and then I cut the temp down some to finish browning the loaf with it uncovered. I still put a pan with water on bottom of my gas oven. i figure more moisture can't hurt. It makes a cute little loaf of bread that is the perfect size for one person for a week or so. I'm 66 and my mother had that dish for many years so it has been a lot ha!. It works like a charm every time :] So glad you stepped up to try something new. Loved the vid!
Yes, I use a Dutch oven. Even with a pan of hot water my oven doesn't hold the steam well. The Dutch oven has given me more spring and consistency. My lid has no knob and doubles as a frying pan so I just cool my bread on that side and use the bottom as the lid. Great video Jack.
I learned doing the Dutch oven..only thing i didn't use the parchment ..much less sling..causes me a lit of heart ache..still aint for rhat basket..bowl works reallt fine
I've been using my Dutch oven for a while... It works really nicely!! Your temperature settings are a bit different... i do the 2nd bake with the top off at 365degrees F... I'll be trying your timing and oven temps... Thank you so much!!
Brilliant video, good, fair comparison. One thing I'd like to add though is that most home ovens are not designed for excessive steaming. Over time, the steam might get into little cracks, causing corrosion.
I will add that some ovens are not designed for that excessive humidity. They have a “motherboard” in the upper section of the oven that is not well isolated. As you know, humidity and electronics do not fair well together! I have experienced it! Replacing that motherboard was expensive, my wife said “no more of baking stuff”! Like someone else mentioned, the Challenger bread is fantastic. Hate to say that because it is expensive but it really helped my break baking. And my wife is happy to eat bread without replacing parts of the oven every 3 months! Why is there a motherboard in an oven?… not sure!
These instructions differ from your blog that say to turn the heat down for the final 20 min. Do you have a preference? Thanks for all your amazing videos! You seem like such a kind person, and you are a great teacher. I've learned so much from you over the years.
Hello Jack this is my very first time seeing or hearing “Bake with Jack”. I love what you do & say about baking bread. my question is why do I have to bake in a Dutch Oven?
I see the magical disappearing pencil is back. A little more clean shaven than normal. You are using Chefs Jacket at the start but keep changing between the apron and the Chefs Jacket. Then I thought is might be a ring on your left hand, but I checked back episodes and see that has been there for awhile. What is it??? you are killing me here.
As a Brit we do a lot of faffing about over here! It's a great word and I'll stop faffing about on here and make a cake! I made two loaves yesterday.🤣🤣🤣
I'm using a Dutch oven because I can't turn the fan off on my oven. I'm hoping to get a big stainless bowl to just put over my stone though so I can do both.
I bake in a Gas Pizza Oven, so a Dutch Oven works best for me. Mine is identical to Jacks. I use a BBQ Cooking sheet as a liner. That way I can add some water without wetting the loaf. But I have found there isn't much difference in oven spring doing that. Natural enclosed steam does a pretty good job in my experience. I have also started using a Baccarat Roasting Pan with lid which allows me to bake two smaller loaves side by side and it has worked pretty well so far. What is the Baking Pan above the oven behind you? It is similar to a Challenger, but different handle positions. I am looking at getting a Baking Pan next (Brunswick), as it would give me a larger baking area and allow different shaped loafs.
Hi Jack, great video as usual and both your loaves look superb. I have to ask though, could you not have used that challenger bread pan on top of your oven behind you which so many others swear by as the best thing they have ever baked bread in. I wish I could afford a challenger but I get by with a glass Pyrex casserole dish with lid just fine. Thanks for the video again.
I’ve used the Dutch oven a couoke of times, but a) I don’t like heating my enameled Dutch oven to that high a temp while empty and b) I find that it overcooks the bottom. I think I cooked a little too high temp which accounts for the bottom overcooking. I can cook at a little lower temp and hopefully fix that. And I have a vintage plain cast iron Dutch oven that Im restoring right now. When thats done, I can use that then won’t have to worry about crazing the enamel in my Le Crueset
I love stone baking but the seal on my oven is starting to go so I've switched over to a Dutch oven.... I will be going back to a stone when I can. Thanks for the video Jack x
Jack, question: has anyone used infrared readers to determine how long it takes a dutch oven to reach ambient temperature when pre-heating an oven? I see 1 hour on some websites but this sounds like overkill. Thank you for the excellent videos. First sourdough loaf in the oven as I write, thanks to your inspiration. Cheers.
I add ice cubes between the the dutch oven and parchment paper just before putting on the lid to really get the steam going. LOVE the parchment paper 'sling' that you've made. Do you have a template?
For the sling I would sit the pot on the paper, draw the circumference and make extensions length = height of pot plus maybe 8 to 12 cm for handles, cut bottom slightly smaller for inside of the pot (substract width of the pot)
I love watching your videos very much. I recently started banking sourdough bread, but i don't know if I'm doing good job or not. I wish if i can show you some of the photos for the bread so you can tell me.
So, I just got 2 new Dutch ovens with enamel inside and instructions say...DO NOT PREHEAT IN THE OVEN AND DO NOT PUT IN A HOT OVEN WHEN EMPTY! So looks like I'm not baking sourdough in my Dutch ovens! I'm pretty annoyed and my husband is super mad. How were you able to put that enamel Dutch oven in a hot oven Jack? Thank you for all you do for us home bakers. ❤
How about putting 1cm water into your cold DO, into your cold oven, switch on. When oven is at temperature, remove DO, remove lid, stand back to let steam escape, put in dough in its sling, lid on, back in oven. DISCLAIMER Not that I have tried it, just thought it might make the DO useable. 1cm of water is a guess, aim is water becomes hot and escapes as steam when you remove the lid, leaving a dry hot DO. All rules are an excuse for thinking a way around them😉. Me, my gas oven doesn't ignite, so planning to replace it with a new electric one. Too much thinking, not enough doing here! I need to look out the dos and don'ts for my cast iron casserole. May have to do this myself! Good luck.
@gwenscoble6229 we returned those DO and got cast iron, those work great! Thank you for your thoughts and ideas. Hoping you get all your stuff worked out.
Can you please help me with this question. I’ve been baking sourdough for a while with success and failures but the last 2 bakes have both exploded out of the banetton while retarding in the fridge what is happening and how do I avoid this ?
Another Great Video. I may just have to dust off my Bake with Jack Sourdough recipe and bake a loaf. I haven't lately due to the fact I love sourdough and it's got so many carbs for this fat body.
I noticed that as well. My dream bread pan I'd want. But it'd be nothing short of me selling one of my kidneys to even pay for the postage of it to ship to Australia. 😭
I really recommend to totally remove the loaf completely from the oven after baking it for the first 20 minutes (30 minutes for me, I want that thick, thick crust) so the bottom is not supper hard to cut, but the sides get properly brown (as seen on the video, the sides of the loaf stayed white). Choosing a Dutch oven that is big enough will be more costly but will allow for some batard as well... Yep I made that mistake. Now the problem I have with a Dutch oven is that, before having one, I was using an enamel casserole with lid... And had the same results... with something 10 times cheaper. Yes it doesn't keep the water as much inside, so you kinda have to really add water in there (like a few ice cube with some water spritz on top of the bread to start) but it was working fine. Also, Jack, what are you telling us about never using a Dutch Oven? There is a Challenger bread ban behind you for the whole video, that's a dutch oven made for bread...
I started with the dutch oven for a year. Then I asked for my birthday a Emile Henry Bread Cloche cooker and I LOVE IT. Best gift ever. It is a plate with a cloche (dome) lid. Be careful as parchemin paper should NOT be used if you bake at a higher temperature than 218C / 425 F. Since i start baking at 475 F (246 C) i found a great trick to avoid using parchemin paper (not possible since oven is too hot for the paper). I brush the bottom of my Emile Henry plate with avocado oil; this oil can take heat up to 260 C / 500 F. Then I simply drop my loaf directly on my bread cooker Emile Henry and place the cloche lid on my plate. And voilà!
So, you have the Challenger Bread pan on the shelf -- have you used it yet??? ;) You should do a comparison video with it. I like it better than my Dutch oven because it bakes more even. It was a lot more expensive that the Dutch oven, too and it is WAY heavier (26lbs), but Boy! those breads come out awesome ! Evenly baked all around - no white sides. I do heat it up in the oven for at least 45 min though. The pizza stone heats up just as long, but I can't keep the steam in the gas oven somehow.
I love my different dutch oven. I cook a lot with them. A lot! I have a special one for my bread, it's very long and rectangular, and acts like a piping hot breadpan. Even if my sourdough overproofed, it might get a little less oven spring but because the only way the bread can go is up, I still get nice loafs. I wanna get a second one of those so I can bake 2loafs at once, I like it that much 😊
I started using dutch ovens some while back when my results were variable. Have never looked back. Consistent results now and always better than what I was producing before. I use two Denby oval casseroles. They are VERY heavy. I can fit two in the oven at once and the loaves are not really oval if you shape them correctly. I would call them bloomers.
My oven doesn't retain the steam. I have to use the dutch oven to get that puff of steam for the bread to rise. Once the first twenty minutes are up. I remove the dough from the dutch oven and put it back into the oven without the heat bomb of the cast iron. I find that the bottom crust get too hard if it remains in the dutch oven with the lid off. That's been my experience.
I been using a dutch oven for years now. Along with your Dark rye starter. The reason I love the dutch oven method is simple. Clean oven, don't have to spray water it stays humid in the dutch oven. You can put 2 dutch ovens in at once and back 2 loaves, just let it preheat for an extra 20 or 30 minutes so both are piping hot. Plus I usually only make a loaf or 2 on Sundays and I don't mind taking my time baking one loaf at a time. And I love the surprise you get when u pop the lid off and you see the oven spring! I sometimes put it fold side up and don't cut the loaf then watch the beautiful natural fishers and tears that occur. lol so glad its fall here in the US I get to bake a lot more bread and not feel bad for my dog that I over heated the house on her =)
I'd recommend a 26" circular DO for up to 1.5Kg sourdough and 24" for up to 800g, the DO is ultra hot so great care must be given to handling it and where to place it and/or its lid to avoid damaging your hands or kitchen! I asked around my family and friends for unused Le Creusets dutch ovens/casseroles gathering dust and now have two on extended-loans that I'll return if asked, however I bake the owners each a SD every week/fortnight so it's turned out they love that arrangement and love the idea their rarely used Le Creusets now earn its keep and generate free sourdoughs for them. So far neither have asked for the Le Creusets to be returned yet they send me photos of their families & guests eating my loaves, the barter economy in action!! My standard Dutch Oven recipe is 70% hydration, 240C lid on 25 minutes & 180C lid off for 10 minutes.
Nice video! Have a few queries: 1. Can the oil seasoning done to the non enameled dutch oven(black ones) interfere with the bread baking process and pass on an smokey odour in the bread? 2. Should the dutch oven be placed on lower rack or middle rack? 3. Should we turn on only bottom heat or bottom and top both? Thanks!
I returned the enamel Dutch ovens and bought 2 cast iron Dutch ovens. It was my 3rd sourdough bake and 4 th loaves. The Dutch oven loaves were much better than the first 2 bakes. The process with starter and stretch and folds was consistent for me and kind of easy. What I'm struggling with is gummy crumb and a crust that's hard to cut and chew. My boules look beautiful but I want them to eat good as much as looking good??? Anyone, got any ideas? Oh, and I'm letting the loaves cool for an exact 2 hours before cutting. Thank you
I've always made my sourdough loaves in a dutch oven since that's how I learned. I do at 515F for 30 minutes and the remove the lid and lower the oven to 375F for another 30 minutes. This gives a thick, crispy crust, which I prefer.
I have always used a Dutch oven (for about 2 years). With higher hydration dough the loaf does not spread during oven spring because it is constrained by the Dutch oven so rises higher.
Good video. I’ve tried the stone method but the steam trips the house fuse resulting in under baked bread as the oven takes about an hour or so to dry out and function again. I have both type of pot oval casserole (IKEA £40) and a Lodge Dutch oven a bit like black one you have behind you. I find the Dutch oven easier to score the dough while it sitting in the flat lid.
I am glad you mentioned this. When I use steam in my oven, it gets into the computer board and shuts off the oven. So I use dutch ovens - two fit nicely in my oven. I have lots of expensive and heavy dutch ovens but for the past few years I have been using a 5 quart enamelware dutch oven. Easier to take in and out of the oven.
Jack is about the cutest thing I have ever seen!
Excellent pros and cons Jack. Nailed it!
I started my sourdough with a stone and still use it for double bread bakes, ciabattas, baguettes and pizza but I use a large dutch oven for my single loaves. I find it easier to regulate the bake with the dutch oven but it has its restrictions in shape and bread types.
the pluses and minuses are clear and you nailed it. I had to go for the dutch over. I have a very thick steel and tried it but my oven does not keep steam in it at all. great for beef or turkey or pies which do not require any steam. The parchment sling makes it possible as well. thanks for your vids you really know how to demystify baking, and have fun!
Great video! One thing though…you can actually make oval shaped loaves in a round Dutch oven. It works! I’ve baked the Bake with Jack sourdough recipe (as an oval/batard) in my 6 qt Lodge Dutch oven, which is 12 inches or 30cm round.
Great video Jack! I only bake one loaf at a time, so have been using Dutch Ovens, cast iron and clay, different shapes. I also started baking cold. A tip from your Countryman, Elaine Foodbod. Regards from NJ.
I use old Le Creuset pans as a Dutch oven on top of a pizza stone, so best of both👌🏼 I don’t use parchment paper and it doesn’t stick but I bake at 260C 🔥 for the first 20 min, then reduce to 200C for the remaining 20 min.
My favourite closed system was a rectangular Pyrex casserole. It gave the best colour and crust appearance and then I dropped the lid 😱
I have 2 sizes of clay Romertopf and a Cousances Dutch oven. I like the way the containers help push up the loaves.
I started with Jacks Method, but found pancakes to begin with but conquered it later! Then I found Foodgeeks no kneed method less regimented and use that all the time now. But for baking I use 1 lb tins with another on top and that is like a DO. If using a round Benetton I have a stainless steel bowl which fits over like a DO on the baking stone. My NEFF fan oven flows the steam from the pan out so now I fold a T towel and jamb it in the top vent as well as spritzing. Bake for 20, lids off, spritz for another 20. Success every time. I can get the banneton and 1 tin in the oven together or 2 tins. Great vid Jack, always an interesting story
Hi Jack, my oven couldn’t stay hot, with a steam tray laying at the bottom over the heating element, and just generally sucked (it’s electric). Then I tried my dutch oven and it was a game changer, the loaves have been so beautiful. I now have 2 dutch ovens so I can bake my 2 loaves. The dutch ovens fixed my ‘oven problem’.
I've only one loaf under my belt. I haven't tried using a Dutch oven, but looking forward to it.
So good to have you back! I was up early stateside baking some chocolate sourdough and a couple of batards of regular.And I got to do it with you, Jack. Thank you.
When I started baking sourdough loaves during lockdown I was worried about what kit I needed and didn’t want to spend a fortune. I baked in a Pyrex casserole and was successful enough that I never went down the road of baking stones or Dutch ovens per se. I DID buy another casserole though and I now bake 2 at a time in my Pyrex casseroles which I put in the oven to preheat when I turn the oven on. It works for me and has saved me a lot of money.
The irony is that I use Pyrex on a baking stone. My gas oven doesn't keep steam at all, so the Pyrex. The stone then evens the temperature a bit. Nice results every time!
Yet another nifty feature of Pyrex is transparency, -- no need to wait 20 minutes to see what's happening.
@@sorganov phew I researched that and decided my Pyrex wouldn't be safe on the baking stone. It might explode. Are you sure? What size is your Pyrex?
@@karenbrooks3765 I heat them together, so there is no risk of explosion. Outer diameter of my Pyrex is 23cm.
It worked!! Thank you Jack😊
I wish I could share the pics. It’s a thing of beauty.
Thank you Jack! I always use the Dutch oven because I find it easier. I love your sling because I am nervous about burning my hands as I drop the dough in. I’m so glad you covered this topic because I do have a question. I have read other Dutch oven methods: 1- use a cold oven, place dutch oven with bread inside, bake 40 mins,then remove lid for additional 10-15 mins baking to get golden color. 2- I let the dough have it’s final rise in the dutch oven; score the surface, spray with water and then place in pre-heated oven to bake 30-40 mins lid on and again 10 mins lid off. What are your thoughts? Method 1 I believe was used for a no knead bread fyi. Love you Jack, this is another great video. Very helpful…BIG THANKS!!
I really enjoyed the video. The journey you are taking is also something i enjoy watching even though I dont see the background work.
Hi Jack. Adapted this slightly with mixed results! Used your standard yeasted loaf recipe and at pre shape stage I shaped one ball into a bloomer and the other reshaped again into a ball. The 'ball' went into a large casserole dish with lid on , the bloomer onto a baking tray with parchment (dont have a baking stone or steel). Oven had been preheated ag 230c for half hour. After 20 mins took casserole lid off for final 20 mins. Couldn't add tray of water for steam as no room left in oven ! After 40 mins the round cob loaf looked brilliant , nice and golden with lovely cross where I'd scored it. The bloomer however was a very unattractive dirty brown colour with no ear (a slight separation but not great), presumably as I had used a baking tray not stone (although it had been preheated so the tray was very hot!). The bloomer tastes fine, and was crusty even with no steam) it just looks unattractive to present. Not tried cob yet but looks just brilliant. Can't understand why bloomer looks like it does when it's the same dough , kneaded the same etc etc?? Is it too ambitious to bake different shape loaves at the same time?? Was it because 230c was too high for the bloomer?
Another great vid Jack. Two things to add: Our big American ranges (generally 30") can easily accommodate TWO 5 Qt. Dutch ovens (Lodge L8DD3) simultaneously, which are a necessity for baking sourdough, since our ovens are all vented. I remember jealously eyeing your sealed Hotpoint oven that always bakes with a fan. And your studio wall oven also seems to be quite sealed. I've talked to major manufacturers and no one offers a sealed oven here :-(
Cutting before going in the pan gives you more room to move the lame (cutter). I do 20 minutes with lid and 30 minutes without lid. It is the only way I've done it (in dutch oven). I do finally have a stone now so will be trying your preferred way. Love your videos. Thank you so much!! :)
I’ve been using pampered chef stoneware with double roasting pans. A nice small crock fits inside the large and I pour the hot water into that crock for the first round of baking. And it is so deliciously moist and lifting up so great. You have helped me so much with sourdough. I’ve been having to use an internal temperature probe and getting it to 215 degrees.
Hi Jack. Thanks to you shop bought bread is a thing of the past (for almost a year) with a Dutch oven. I’ve found best uniform results by 1: only preheating the base (and not the lid) 2: cooking for 15 at starting high heat, dropping temp to 190c for 10 mins lid still on and then 15-20 mins for the last part. Brilliant. Oh and couldn’t help but notice that you have the fabulous Challenger Dutch oven on top of your oven. I’m saving up for one of those. Excellent design. Love your work and enthusiasm.
Great pros and cons. Here is something to think about.... I use the old blue with white speckled enamelware on steel roasting pans. They heat up very quickly in the oven, so I don't have to leave them in there to heat more than 5 minutes. They also cool down quickly once baking is done. Mine are oval because I like the shape for sandwiches. Consistent oven spring. Usually the height is about 4.5 inches at the middle. Color is even all the way around. I, too, use parchment paper. Thanks for the tip about cutting for the handle (cute). One thing about the parchment paper, I place the paper on top of the dough in the basket, then with one hand on the paper and one under the basket I flip the basket, there is less chance of slipping of the dough.
Oh, I've been using AP (10% protein) flour, but adding VWG to bring it too 12% for bread, and 14% for pizza dough.
I have a very large oval Dutch oven, so have no restriction on the shape of the loaves I can make. Used both methods, and as I usually only need to make one loaf at a time, find the Dutch oven easier to use, with more consistent results. The Thermal mass of the oven and the Dutch oven combined, plus the always retained moisture due to the initial lid on bake work very well, given great oven spring, and give very good ears. I sprayed more water in a couple of times, and it didn’t make any noticeable difference, so I didn’t carry on with that. 250-260C for first 20 minutes and 230C for the last 20-25, with the lid off. If I’m making more than one loaf (which is rare), then a stone is my go to option, although I have to cover the vent in the oven door for the first 10 minutes or so, to keep more/most of the steam in.
Love you videos you are amazing with how you teach people to bake thank you . You are a help keep it up. Cheer’s 🦋
Jack, I use my mother's old Pyrex 2 quart green glass casserole dish. So I let the dough rise overnight in the fridge in the casserole dish, but lightly covered with cloth. In the morning I dust up the casserole lid, put in place and turn the whole thing over. Then I remove the bottom, take the cloth off, and put the bottom back in place--which is now the top lol
It cooks covered like that for the first bit, and then I cut the temp down some to finish browning the loaf with it uncovered. I still put a pan with water on bottom of my gas oven. i figure more moisture can't hurt.
It makes a cute little loaf of bread that is the perfect size for one person for a week or so. I'm 66 and my mother had that dish for many years so it has been a lot ha!. It works like a charm every time :]
So glad you stepped up to try something new. Loved the vid!
Love this video
Yes, I use a Dutch oven. Even with a pan of hot water my oven doesn't hold the steam well. The Dutch oven has given me more spring and consistency. My lid has no knob and doubles as a frying pan so I just cool my bread on that side and use the bottom as the lid. Great video Jack.
Cooooool! Thanks Bek 🤗
I learned doing the Dutch oven..only thing i didn't use the parchment ..much less sling..causes me a lit of heart ache..still aint for rhat basket..bowl works reallt fine
I've been using my Dutch oven for a while... It works really nicely!! Your temperature settings are a bit different... i do the 2nd bake with the top off at 365degrees F... I'll be trying your timing and oven temps... Thank you so much!!
Brilliant video, good, fair comparison.
One thing I'd like to add though is that most home ovens are not designed for excessive steaming. Over time, the steam might get into little cracks, causing corrosion.
I will add that some ovens are not designed for that excessive humidity. They have a “motherboard” in the upper section of the oven that is not well isolated. As you know, humidity and electronics do not fair well together! I have experienced it! Replacing that motherboard was expensive, my wife said “no more of baking stuff”! Like someone else mentioned, the Challenger bread is fantastic. Hate to say that because it is expensive but it really helped my break baking. And my wife is happy to eat bread without replacing parts of the oven every 3 months!
Why is there a motherboard in an oven?… not sure!
These instructions differ from your blog that say to turn the heat down for the final 20 min. Do you have a preference?
Thanks for all your amazing videos! You seem like such a kind person, and you are a great teacher. I've learned so much from you over the years.
Hello Jack this is my very first time seeing or hearing “Bake with Jack”. I love what you do & say about baking bread. my question is why do I have to bake in a Dutch Oven?
That looks _amazing_ !
I see the magical disappearing pencil is back. A little more clean shaven than normal. You are using Chefs Jacket at the start but keep changing between the apron and the Chefs Jacket. Then I thought is might be a ring on your left hand, but I checked back episodes and see that has been there for awhile. What is it??? you are killing me here.
When baking my bread should I not set my oven on Convection. Which is better? Love your tips.
I'm determined to make a wholemeal starter to join my family of 4 born last year. I'm gonna call him Jack.
Loved the video Jack. Both loaves look beautiful! And thank you for increasing my vocabulary. My new word is faff! 😂 ❤
As a Brit we do a lot of faffing about over here! It's a great word and I'll stop faffing about on here and make a cake! I made two loaves yesterday.🤣🤣🤣
@@suejames3208 I Love It! Enjoy your cakes and loaves!
I use the DO for all bread except tin loaves, baguettes, and breakfast rolls.
I love that Dutch oven you’re using. Where is it from?
I'm using a Dutch oven because I can't turn the fan off on my oven. I'm hoping to get a big stainless bowl to just put over my stone though so I can do both.
I bake in a Gas Pizza Oven, so a Dutch Oven works best for me. Mine is identical to Jacks. I use a BBQ Cooking sheet as a liner. That way I can add some water without wetting the loaf. But I have found there isn't much difference in oven spring doing that. Natural enclosed steam does a pretty good job in my experience.
I have also started using a Baccarat Roasting Pan with lid which allows me to bake two smaller loaves side by side and it has worked pretty well so far.
What is the Baking Pan above the oven behind you? It is similar to a Challenger, but different handle positions. I am looking at getting a Baking Pan next (Brunswick), as it would give me a larger baking area and allow different shaped loafs.
Hi Jack, great video as usual and both your loaves look superb. I have to ask though, could you not have used that challenger bread pan on top of your oven behind you which so many others swear by as the best thing they have ever baked bread in.
I wish I could afford a challenger but I get by with a glass Pyrex casserole dish with lid just fine.
Thanks for the video again.
fantastic comparison 🤩😻
I’ve used the Dutch oven a couoke of times, but a) I don’t like heating my enameled Dutch oven to that high a temp while empty and b) I find that it overcooks the bottom. I think I cooked a little too high temp which accounts for the bottom overcooking. I can cook at a little lower temp and hopefully fix that. And I have a vintage plain cast iron Dutch oven that Im restoring right now. When thats done, I can use that then won’t have to worry about crazing the enamel in my Le Crueset
I love stone baking but the seal on my oven is starting to go so I've switched over to a Dutch oven.... I will be going back to a stone when I can. Thanks for the video Jack x
I replaced the seal on my Smeg oven recently and couldn’t believe it was so cheap and so easy. I didn’t even need to use a screwdriver
I have the same Dutch oven
What size proving basket is in the video. Thanks in advance!
Dutch oven works a treat for me. 230c 25mins lid on. 20mins lid off.
So what about the Challenger that's in the background of your shot?!!!
What is the sice of the dutch oven? I dont want to have a too big for bread
I on,y have a stainless steel bender casserole pot, will this be suitable? instead of a dutch oven per se?
What temperature did you use? Fan or no fan?
What's the weight of the dough and the volume of the pot ?
It's hard to tell on my smartphone, but that looks like a 6-7qt pot and a 1kg loaf.
Am I wrong in thinking that you can't keep steam in a gas oven? There are air vents at the back of mine, and any steam is lost in seconds.
Well being as I've got the oven already!
Jack, question: has anyone used infrared readers to determine how long it takes a dutch oven to reach ambient temperature when pre-heating an oven? I see 1 hour on some websites but this sounds like overkill. Thank you for the excellent videos. First sourdough loaf in the oven as I write, thanks to your inspiration. Cheers.
I think the true answer Frederic is try a set time and see if you like the bread and it comes out well. 1 hour feels a little excessive to me too 🤗
I just used an infrared temp reader. It took about 45 minutes on gas mark 9 to reach 230c. So given ovens vary an hour is probably a safe bet!
What size is the Dutch oven??
How many quarts is that dutch oven?
I add ice cubes between the the dutch oven and parchment paper just before putting on the lid to really get the steam going. LOVE the parchment paper 'sling' that you've made. Do you have a template?
For the sling I would sit the pot on the paper, draw the circumference and make extensions length = height of pot plus maybe 8 to 12 cm for handles, cut bottom slightly smaller for inside of the pot (substract width of the pot)
I thought you cannot pre-heat enameled cast iron?
I love watching your videos very much.
I recently started banking sourdough bread, but i don't know if I'm doing good job or not. I wish if i can show you some of the photos for the bread so you can tell me.
If it tastes good then you are doing a good job!
Have you made sourdough in the (what looks like the black cast iron bread pan behind you ) challenger cast iron bread pan?
Yeah I did one time and it was fine, be for a future video I think 👌🏻
@@Bakewithjack Waiting for that video 😍
I’m about to make sourdough with starter I made with your tutorial…blind trust….lol.
So, I just got 2 new Dutch ovens with enamel inside and instructions say...DO NOT PREHEAT IN THE OVEN AND DO NOT PUT IN A HOT OVEN WHEN EMPTY! So looks like I'm not baking sourdough in my Dutch ovens! I'm pretty annoyed and my husband is super mad. How were you able to put that enamel Dutch oven in a hot oven Jack? Thank you for all you do for us home bakers. ❤
How about putting 1cm water into your cold DO, into your cold oven, switch on. When oven is at temperature, remove DO, remove lid, stand back to let steam escape, put in dough in its sling, lid on, back in oven.
DISCLAIMER
Not that I have tried it, just thought it might make the DO useable. 1cm of water is a guess, aim is water becomes hot and escapes as steam when you remove the lid, leaving a dry hot DO. All rules are an excuse for thinking a way around them😉.
Me, my gas oven doesn't ignite, so planning to replace it with a new electric one. Too much thinking, not enough doing here! I need to look out the dos and don'ts for my cast iron casserole. May have to do this myself!
Good luck.
@gwenscoble6229 we returned those DO and got cast iron, those work great! Thank you for your thoughts and ideas. Hoping you get all your stuff worked out.
Have you tried to bake it with a dutch oven on a hob rather than in the oven? I thought the point of a Dutch Oven is to bake on an open fire.
Ok how to make the dough, everything from the very first step?
Can you please help me with this question. I’ve been baking sourdough for a while with success and failures but the last 2 bakes have both exploded out of the banetton while retarding in the fridge what is happening and how do I avoid this ?
Had to go for a Dutch oven because I can’t switch off the fan in the oven to retain the steam.
How do you store your sourdough bread?
I wrap mine in an old fine linen tea towel, them store in the bread bin. It keeps the loaf moist..
Another Great Video. I may just have to dust off my Bake with Jack Sourdough recipe and bake a loaf. I haven't lately due to the fact I love sourdough and it's got so many carbs for this fat body.
There is a better Dutch oven/cloche behind your right ear.
I’ve always mad my sourdough in a Dutch oven, but I make your recipe on a stone
u remind me of gordon ramsey
Thats not a " Dutch oven " I'm familiar with. I'm not a big fan of the " Dutch oven " I am familiar with.
What's that I see behind your right shoulder? A Challenger Bread Pan. Possibly the best dutch oven available...at a price. ; )
I noticed that as well. My dream bread pan I'd want. But it'd be nothing short of me selling one of my kidneys to even pay for the postage of it to ship to Australia. 😭
Problem isn't even that. The price is a one time thing. The issue is its 10kgs! And massive to store it.
I love my challenger. I can bake any shape boule batard baguettes etc. I use my breville oven instead of my big oven and it is perfect
I use a dutch oven with a flat lid, upside down, for the same purpose. Bonus, it's also usable as a dutch oven.
there is a challenger bread pan sitting and waiting behind you and shouting „there is almost no faff with meeee“ 😁
I love my Challenger…and not only for bread either!!!
Rip off though
@@benmjt probably, yes! but it seems to be convenient anyway 🤔
If you try the challenger cast iron one it will make sure to make it golden all the way round lol
If you take the bread out of the dutch oven after 30 minutes it’ll get evenly golden.
@@kentchr76 and that too lol
I really recommend to totally remove the loaf completely from the oven after baking it for the first 20 minutes (30 minutes for me, I want that thick, thick crust) so the bottom is not supper hard to cut, but the sides get properly brown (as seen on the video, the sides of the loaf stayed white).
Choosing a Dutch oven that is big enough will be more costly but will allow for some batard as well... Yep I made that mistake. Now the problem I have with a Dutch oven is that, before having one, I was using an enamel casserole with lid... And had the same results... with something 10 times cheaper. Yes it doesn't keep the water as much inside, so you kinda have to really add water in there (like a few ice cube with some water spritz on top of the bread to start) but it was working fine.
Also, Jack, what are you telling us about never using a Dutch Oven? There is a Challenger bread ban behind you for the whole video, that's a dutch oven made for bread...
I was also staring at the Challenger bread pan wondering why Jack didn't mention it.
@@scfeng6883 sane here
I started with the dutch oven for a year. Then I asked for my birthday a Emile Henry Bread Cloche cooker and I LOVE IT. Best gift ever. It is a plate with a cloche (dome) lid. Be careful as parchemin paper should NOT be used if you bake at a higher temperature than 218C / 425 F. Since i start baking at 475 F (246 C) i found a great trick to avoid using parchemin paper (not possible since oven is too hot for the paper). I brush the bottom of my Emile Henry plate with avocado oil; this oil can take heat up to 260 C / 500 F. Then I simply drop my loaf directly on my bread cooker Emile Henry and place the cloche lid on my plate. And voilà!
So, you have the Challenger Bread pan on the shelf -- have you used it yet??? ;) You should do a comparison video with it. I like it better than my Dutch oven because it bakes more even. It was a lot more expensive that the Dutch oven, too and it is WAY heavier (26lbs), but Boy! those breads come out awesome ! Evenly baked all around - no white sides. I do heat it up in the oven for at least 45 min though. The pizza stone heats up just as long, but I can't keep the steam in the gas oven somehow.
I have a Challenger too and agree 100% with all you said. I’ve used mine to make fruit crisps and biscuits as well….
I love my different dutch oven.
I cook a lot with them. A lot!
I have a special one for my bread, it's very long and rectangular, and acts like a piping hot breadpan. Even if my sourdough overproofed, it might get a little less oven spring but because the only way the bread can go is up, I still get nice loafs.
I wanna get a second one of those so I can bake 2loafs at once, I like it that much 😊
I started using dutch ovens some while back when my results were variable. Have never looked back. Consistent results now and always better than what I was producing before. I use two Denby oval casseroles. They are VERY heavy. I can fit two in the oven at once and the loaves are not really oval if you shape them correctly. I would call them bloomers.
My oven doesn't retain the steam. I have to use the dutch oven to get that puff of steam for the bread to rise. Once the first twenty minutes are up. I remove the dough from the dutch oven and put it back into the oven without the heat bomb of the cast iron. I find that the bottom crust get too hard if it remains in the dutch oven with the lid off. That's been my experience.
I been using a dutch oven for years now. Along with your Dark rye starter. The reason I love the dutch oven method is simple. Clean oven, don't have to spray water it stays humid in the dutch oven. You can put 2 dutch ovens in at once and back 2 loaves, just let it preheat for an extra 20 or 30 minutes so both are piping hot. Plus I usually only make a loaf or 2 on Sundays and I don't mind taking my time baking one loaf at a time. And I love the surprise you get when u pop the lid off and you see the oven spring! I sometimes put it fold side up and don't cut the loaf then watch the beautiful natural fishers and tears that occur. lol so glad its fall here in the US I get to bake a lot more bread and not feel bad for my dog that I over heated the house on her =)
Is Gordon Ramsey your dad by any chance?
Right! Other than all the foul language from Gordon, which Jack never uses, there are so many times watching Jack and I see Gordon!
Jack, could you give us the temperatures for fan ovens please when you tell us your baking temp
I'd recommend a 26" circular DO for up to 1.5Kg sourdough and 24" for up to 800g, the DO is ultra hot so great care must be given to handling it and where to place it and/or its lid to avoid damaging your hands or kitchen!
I asked around my family and friends for unused Le Creusets dutch ovens/casseroles gathering dust and now have two on extended-loans that I'll return if asked, however I bake the owners each a SD every week/fortnight so it's turned out they love that arrangement and love the idea their rarely used Le Creusets now earn its keep and generate free sourdoughs for them. So far neither have asked for the Le Creusets to be returned yet they send me photos of their families & guests eating my loaves, the barter economy in action!!
My standard Dutch Oven recipe is 70% hydration, 240C lid on 25 minutes & 180C lid off for 10 minutes.
Nice video! Have a few queries:
1. Can the oil seasoning done to the non enameled dutch oven(black ones) interfere with the bread baking process and pass on an smokey odour in the bread?
2. Should the dutch oven be placed on lower rack or middle rack?
3. Should we turn on only bottom heat or bottom and top both?
Thanks!
I returned the enamel Dutch ovens and bought 2 cast iron Dutch ovens. It was my 3rd sourdough bake and 4 th loaves. The Dutch oven loaves were much better than the first 2 bakes. The process with starter and stretch and folds was consistent for me and kind of easy. What I'm struggling with is gummy crumb and a crust that's hard to cut and chew. My boules look beautiful but I want them to eat good as much as looking good??? Anyone, got any ideas? Oh, and I'm letting the loaves cool for an exact 2 hours before cutting. Thank you
I've always made my sourdough loaves in a dutch oven since that's how I learned. I do at 515F for 30 minutes and the remove the lid and lower the oven to 375F for another 30 minutes. This gives a thick, crispy crust, which I prefer.
You are so stinking cute. Love your personality. I can say all this because I could very easily be your grandmother. 😂🤣😂
America's Test Kitchen found you can use a cold dutch oven and a cold oven.
Hey Jack, you didn’t show us how you did the stone baked one. 🤦♀️🤷♀️
Thank you for this video! I will bak my first dutch oven sourdough loaf today. This video answered a lot of my questions and I learned quite a lot!
Awesome video thanks 😊
I use d metal tray available in d oven..
As always a pleasure to view and listen.
Have you tried a steel 'stone'? Just wondering adv/dis to it
I have always used a Dutch oven (for about 2 years). With higher hydration dough the loaf does not spread during oven spring because it is constrained by the Dutch oven so rises higher.
Good video. I’ve tried the stone method but the steam trips the house fuse resulting in under baked bread as the oven takes about an hour or so to dry out and function again. I have both type of pot oval casserole (IKEA £40) and a Lodge Dutch oven a bit like black one you have behind you. I find the Dutch oven easier to score the dough while it sitting in the flat lid.
I am glad you mentioned this. When I use steam in my oven, it gets into the computer board and shuts off the oven. So I use dutch ovens - two fit nicely in my oven. I have lots of expensive and heavy dutch ovens but for the past few years I have been using a 5 quart enamelware dutch oven. Easier to take in and out of the oven.
"faff"?????😆