A Rant! - The new "improved" Casio fx-83GT CW Calculator
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- An issue for anyone doing any calculations involving standard form /scientific notation on the new Casio fx-83GT CW calculator.
This affects anyone doing N5, Higher and AH Physics.
I cannot agree more. As an engineering lecturer of 15 years, Casio have messed up here. By reducing buttons (and cost) they have made it a more complex tool to operate. I could be accused of not moving with change, but this is a cost saver, not an advance for students.
The only reason for having a dedicated x10^x button is to logically and exclusively connect a mantissa to a ‘power of ten’. That automatic functionality has now gone. A step backwards in my view but the ‘bodmas’ brigade seems quite happy.
there are enough buttons to make a fully functioning calculator which is atleast on par with the old one. instead of putting all the features in shift and alpha or in drop down menus, ... they just don't. What's even worse they have a bunch of drop down menus, which aren't navigatable by number and contain literally nothing. They also removed all the useful modes and replaced it with mathbox... a random number generator and a number line.
Totally agree with this!!! Plus what is wrong with an = sign? Why does now confuse the students with EXE instead!
LOL, how come students get confused with execute instead of = in the same place?
I guess Casio is targeting high schoolers who would later use graphing calculator in college. They made it menu driven and the buttons similar to a graphing calculator so the students would choose Casio over TIs graphing calculator since they would be used to Casio's interface
I've googled this exact thing, where is my bloody equals button!
@@a.k.3659 I have seen people hitting the 'Ans' key trying to get the 'Answer'. I doubt they would do any better with this one.
Just tried this on my daughter’s as she has just got one for school. It follows bodmas if you input it that way, can add brackets but more long winded. But thanks for the heads up about using the fraction button first!
That's quite a change because Casio only used to implement PEDMAS rules for North American calculators, they historically haven't done this for the UK market because we only use BODMAS as a teaching aid for younger children as we move to more advanced maths as we do not follow BODMAS rules to the letter, certainly not for A-levels and University level maths.
you know its bad when the counterfeit casio calculators work better than the real thing
This is not an error. You have given this calculator a CHAIN OPERATION with a DIVISION in it. You have to specify WHERE the denominator starts and ends using (), else it can only guess. The answer you got was not an error
@@jack002tuber you’ve missed the point. The old calculators automatically joined the exponent to the mantissa. What else would you be doing after hitting the ‘x10^x’ button. That sensible functionality has gone.
As an engineer this would mean me binning the calculator, as a maths teacher it has now got me seriously considering moving over to TI. The difficulties my students are having with this new 'simplified' interface and menu system are relentless without adding in incorrect application of the order of operations.
nice vid sir. I think it goes by how it is written in fact if you write 686:(8x10^-4) it outputs correctly
I think its better cause now it follows the rules of operations correctly, and you should input it properly with brackets.
Yes , it’s always / 8.0 then / 10^-4
People get used to wrong way but refused to correct. And that’s also prefer by teacher…… that’s why student doesn’t even know how maths work
I've just bought a fx-83GT CW now and it works right for me.
Hey mate,
Here is a lil tip on to get it in standard form.
1st step:settings
2nd step:press calc settings.
3rd step: go to number format.
,final step:press norm and choose 1. Which will give you ans in 1.23x10^-3 form.
Hope it helped😊
That was not his point. 8x10^-4 is actually 0.0008 so 686/8x10^-4 is really just 686/0.0008 therefore the answer should be 857500. As you can notice the final answer is very large number but the calculator treated 10^-4 as a separate number of its own so it divided 686 by 8 rather than 0.008 and multiplied it by 10^-4 giving an answer of 8.57x10^-3 which is not the correct answer. He was just demonstrating how the calculator gives you different answer if you're unaware of what it is doing.
Oh sry mb
ily thank you so much
Visually it makes more sense, though, even though it will cause confusion. The new one doesn't implicitly put brackets around the 8.0*10^-4. It's not giving the wrong answer, 686 / 8.0 * 10^-4 is what the new one gives, which makes sense since you didn't put any brackets to group the (8.0 * 10^-4) to make sure 686/8 doesn't happen first.
It doesn't seem like an "issue" with the calculator, it actually seems more like the old ones were misleading, but since they've been around for so long, they're expected to work that way.
If you treat Ans like a variable, Ans/10*2 looks like Ans should be divided by 10 first, then multiplied by 2, but what the old calcs did is more like Ans/(10*2) which isn't as obvious unless you're told it does it that way. Or maybe I'm understanding it wrong.
Is this a change with all new casio calculators, or just this model in particular. Because it would make sense if they're changing all of the new ones, but if it's *only* this one, then that's weird. I tried it on a TI calculator simulator app, and it also gives the "wrong" answer.
I think the reason it works separately from the fractional view, is because something like
686
---------
8 * 10^-4
typically treats the top and bottom as separate, but if you rewrote the equation as
686 / 8 * 10^-4
most people would do it differently, using order of operations, left to right. So in my opinion, this change makes more sense, even if it will be confusing for people used to the old ones. But it means that the x10^ button doesn't really have a purpose, I suppose. Maybe they should've just changed it so the button inserts the brackets to show you what's actually happening.
Yeah, I saw a blog post, it says that it's technically correct, but will be confusing for people. I don't think it's a bad change, though, at least once it phases out the older ones. It encourages formatting it properly using the brackets.
I like your point that the x10^ button doesn’t really have a point now. The power (no pun intended) of this button used to be that it automatically joined the mantissa and the exponent. No need for brackets. That joy has now gone.
@@mrstewartphysics I see what you mean. It still saves typing 4 buttons X 1 0 then the exponent button, but yeah, I think the better alternative would've been to maintain the behaviour, but visually insert brackets to show what's happening.
@@BlazertronGames I like this proposal best. You keep the speed of the old calculator and now have the formula clarity with the added brackets.
Since I started using scientific calculators with the HP35 in the 70s the 10^ key has always been used to apply as if you are using scientific notation. That's quite a long history to go back on over many different brands to include TI and HP. not only that but many people do not include the brackets when doing hand calculations on paper. It also saddens me because Casio has been my go to brand due to the excessive cost and underperforming TI models and hard to get antique HP ones (that I actually prefer).
I just noticed this yesterday when I borrowed my daughter’s calculator to do some preparation for my A level physics lesson. I have seen kids have this problem on the old calculators when physically typing in x 10 ^ 4 rather than using the standard form button and I always had to train them that that was what the standard button was for to attach it to the number without the brackets but it doesn’t work any more. And the annoying thing is that if you do use brackets you have to be careful as the end bracket just goes round the power unless you press the sideways arrow to stop it being superscript. Rubbish for doing quick physics calculations. I have emailed casio
Unless students (and teachers) are made aware of this, some students could potentially lose a lot of marks in exams unless they have an intuitive grasp of ‘power of ten’ arithmetic. This ‘could’ be the difference between pass and fail for some kids.
@@mrstewartphysics I would sue. It's crazy that a calculator can cause such failure.
I tested a few Casio calculators that I've got. My fx-991cw does this too, while the fx-991ex and the fx-CG50 do not. The venerable old fx-82d that I used for my GCSEs doesn't, of course, but it doesn't use VPAM.
Casio have made some weird choices with the CW series. I wonder if this is a glitch or a result of educational advisors insisting that the calculators handle everything exactly as written, and effectively making the x10^ button pretty much useless.
Good points, well made. I think Casio are just pushing users to input calculations as they are naturally written. It’s like any new system, just takes time to get used to.
Same things happen with the 2nd gen model like ms, es and es plus. It's not an abnormal thing for us
Thank you for this video. I just got myself this calculator as my university did not allow me to take a more advanced calculator into the exam. The ENG button is essential, and this implementation is form Casio is so stupid. It made it so tedious to add bracket everytime and make it so prone to carelessness
Just found the same issue for our amateur radio exam calculations - aaarrggghh. I found the opening a bracket before the ENG notation seems to work. Pure bonkers.
Or you have to use brackets same concept on the basic old models never knew that a casio could actually do that right away
Thanks for telling me. I'm doing math tutoring, and the new CW series are the new standard in all schools here. I will have to be on my toes to help my students on this. I CANNOT just switch calcs (I do use a different one, mostly a clone of the old HP RPN, for me privately and checking exam question), because my students MUST need to work with it.
Bought one this morning, discovered the same issue, taking it back this afternoon.
I am a calculator freak, have 45+ of them in a drawer. All of them do this calculations the same way as the fx-82CW, even the graph calculators. The only calculators getting it "right" are my HP-calculators. Can't go wrong with RPN ❤
It looks the same as my CASIO fx8200 AU.
Maybe because Casio rebrands its models with different names for different regions
Why not just input 686÷8÷10^-4? Simple and no need for brackets. Works on all calcs.
The worst feature is if you use ANS and then divide by a number in Scientific notation you still need the brackets ( eg if 3 is the answer. Then ANS x 1x10^2 AND ANS / 1x10^2 both give the same value - 300). To require brackets for all division in Scientific notation is just ludicrous. I agree all CW are hopeless for Physics students and will just lead to failure. These cheap & nasty CW calculators have flooded the market and so many have purchased them believing them to be an upgrade. The old models are selling on Amazon and EBay at a much higher price for a reason.
Yep, I made the big mistake of spending £26 on one of these new calculators thinking I was getting an upgrade; worst decision ever 😢 I’m sticking to my old Casio fx-85GT Plus
You are correct sir. It’s ridiculous. I’ve started buying old models on reseller sites that aren’t crazy prices. I saw an fx83 gtx on eBay for £80 yesterday😳
I perform simple calculations for work. Replaced my old (lost) Casio with this one and there's no sodding % button without going via 'Catalogue - Probability - %'. It's easy enough to use the decimal but I was very, very annoyed to discover there's no % button any more!
Casio have made some weird design choices for sure.
That's really daft and quite "dangerous". Also what happened to the SD button?!
I'm glad I've got the fg-85GT X from a few years ago.
It was removed "for efficiency reasons" and now it resorts in a submenu of the format button. Same applies to the ENG button. Casio really wants you to do more typing to get the same result. As an electrical engineer, I use those buttons all the time. This calculator is rubbish compared to the predecessors. Casio, you are going to lose a lot of previously satisfied users if you continue this approach.
fx-991CW does it too. Probably all CW variants.
Cw series is really a horrible follow up for the brilliant ClassWiz series.
I think its a change in how the calculator reads what your typing in to how we're used to it. You type in 686/8.0x10^-4, which you read as 686/(8.0x10^-4), but what the calculator is reading is (686/8.0)x10^-4. This can be easily proved by working out what 686/8 is, then multiplying the answer by 10^-4. I think the problem is, how calculators used to read x10^ was as the previous method, and how we'd naturally read that (probably because thats how calculators used to read them) is now read by the calculator as different. I think its important to state that because if you're doing a calculation that has something like a/b-cx10^d, where you've used the fraction button, it will give the wrong answer, because the bottom of the fraction is still read as (b-c)x10^d and not as we would read it as b-(cx10^d). I think its just something we have to get used to with the new calculators, and I can't see casio reverting to the old method. I think a rule of thumb should be "if in doubt, use brackets"
You are correct, but the ease of use of the ‘old’ calculator automatically connected the exponent to the mantissa. Saved a few button pushes
Takes a lot of getting used to. I'm still looking for the factorial ! Function. Go into settings, input/output, then change format to linei/lineo for non fraction output.
@johnsealey5334 click catalog then probablity then you'll see the factorial button
@@sifatredwan4533 Aha, thankyou.
It calcs 686/8 and then x10^(-4), so you have to use brackets or the fraction function.
I know. The older models of the calculator automatically joined the ‘x10^n’ to the preceding number. This no longer works. A downgrade in my opinion. The fraction button is the way to go now.
@@mrstewartphysicsBut they should not have done this. If old Casio users discover this much later, it is a serious issue.
Wow! It almost seems like a bug in the programming of the calculator. Well spotted!
@@Crazytesseractthis can cause failure!!!
To get the correct result on the CW calculator, just use parentheses around the denominator: (8 x 10^-4)
The point of the "x10" button is to save you the time of entering parenthesis around the number. What's the point of it if it requires you to put a parentheses anyways??
The point of the "x10^x" has ALWAYS been to enter numbers as "xEy" (as a unit, with implied brackets around it). It was NOT to calculate "x*10^y", which is what the upper block functions are for.
Uh oh, i just bought my niece her first scientific calculator for hs. Its a fx-991cw, and iirc the buttons look the same. Hope it does not give her the same problem. Unfortunately I Did not check it before giving it to her
Hope nasa engineering don’t use this for the next moon landing!
😂
I have noticed most of the professionals who had used calculators a lot in their studies just tend to use their PC for calculations in their work. I don't think NASA employees would be using sluggish calculators when they have computer softwares in their next click.
Very helpful. From a maths tutor in Cambridge.
I hate this calculator after learning about this issue. Returning mine.
Yes same here! I wasted £26 on this hot mess 😢 I don’t know if I can even get a refund. I bought it from Tesco supermarket 😞
@@Khemani_RL There's nothing wrong with it. You want the right answer, then use ( and ). It is not an error
@@jack002tuberof course it won't cause a world destruction but they just missed the whole point behind the x10 button. The worse part is people are habitual of using 'x10' button without brackets and they would think CW also works that way.
You could rant about a thousand things that make this worse and more impractical compared to the great fx991ex, like the catalog button, the tools, the function and the fact that you have to navigate through menus to do a simple operation.
But you chose to rant about the way it handles the bodmas/pemdas stuff. It is actually more correct now than before. When you have a single line, and you divide and then multiply, these two are done in the way that they are written.
Teachers always say, especially in programming classes, to be aware of the fact that in fractions everything down there should be in brackets.
At the end of the day, the fraction button is the best, and maybe the x10 button would be better if it would just put brackets on it's own to help people understand.
Answer which is 686: (8.0 ×10 -4)= 857.500😂 The button mentioned by viewer works correctly. You can set decimal answer to appear every time on screen, there is a video on youtube how to do it.
what is the point of that button even being there anymore
One keystroke instead of 4, that's all.
Or you can just place brackets around the 8.0x10^-4
So, ANS ÷ (8.0x10^-4)
It's doing the division first and then the power.... if you put it in parenthesis it'll give the right answer.
@@IntelligentProbe yes I know, but that is additional button presses compared to previous models. My point was that if you were a seasoned veteran of usage of the older Fx83/5 you didn’t need to use brackets with the older models. The whole point of the ‘x10^x’ button was that it acted as a macro and effectively did the parenthesis for you (without explicitly showing it) and automatically joined the mantissa and exponent. That was the whole point of the original functionality of the button. I realise it’s more ‘mathematically’ correct now but it increases the complexity of data handling and is a big change for those folks, like myself, who were used to the old system.
That's quite a disappointing change; having used a Casio since the mid-90s starting with the fx-570s. I was already somewhat annoyed at the new round buttons and the print just isn't as readable as the older models.
It doesn't have a button for exponentials, which is honestly ridiculous
It has constant e (via shift-8) and an y^x button.
What about Fx 85 GTX?
Great calculator, solar powered.
Next stop eBay for the old version . New version filed in bin.
Watch out Donald the old ones are selling for up to £80🥴
@@mrstewartphysicsyeah I saw the ridiculous prices, but decided to still buy the newer one anyway; it was the worst decision ever 😢 I’ve made more calculator errors than ever before. I’m loosing easy marks just because of this stupid calculator not working the way it should
In short you can calculate it like this: 70*9.8÷8÷10^-4. I think it calculates from left to right one by one
My old Sharp EL-531X also gives the same (correct) result as the older Casios. The Sharp has an Exp button, which performs the same function as the x10^x button. Even though I follow the BEDMAS rule, I still think the newer Casio gives the wrong result. The reason being that if you want to follow BEDMAS you would use the multiplication button (X) before the Exp or x10^x button. If you don’t use the multiplication button first, then it seems logical to me that the Exp or x10^x function should apply only to the term immediately before it.
Yup, that’s my point, the automatic connection of the x10^x button was the whole point of that exclusive button. That functionality has now gone but hey-ho there you go.
Great. I just bought this calculator!
you'll get used to it :)
Seriously? I assume it is not 1st of April.
Hi, is there something I don't understand...From my point of view only
the last calculator is correct. It did follow order of tasks so 686 got divided by 8.0 first and then got multiplied so result 0.008575 is correct.
If you were typing in "times 10 to the power -4" then you'd expect to get that answer, but they've changed how the ×10^x button works. When you're using the ×10^x button it's normally considered to be part of the same number. So when you use that button (on the older calcs) you're not doing 686 ÷ 8 × 10^-4, but 686 ÷ (8×10^-4). On the older calculators the × symbols is smaller to show this, but the new one treats it like the former calculation.
Press the "Shift" button first then press the "EXE" to get your answers in decimals every time!.... you dont have to use the "Format" button ... Done!!! ... long live casio Fx-991CW ....
In some cases, shift-EXE does not give the same result as using Format-->Decimal. Try it.
when i press ON or HOME or if the calculator is off, all calculation history is gone. Is there anyway to keep the calculation history?
Unless you get their graphing models Casio's calculators can't keep calculations history. Though In the new CW models switching to one of the modes doesn't erase the data already inputted into the other mode (matrix, statistics) etc as long as you don't press the 'on' button but its gone once you restart the calculator.
Can be done using brackets, but defo not nice as the bracket needs to shifted after inputting the power.
I know, it’s a total pain in the neck if you are used to the older way of doing it, but hey-ho there you go!
I think Casio got this one right. The button is simply labelled "x10^n", so that's what you're inserting into your text (on a single line) before asking the calculator to parse it according to the rules. The issue arises due to computer text input being a linear (single line) process and the convention that a "/" character only applies to the following number/variable. Since calculators are now small computers it makes sense to be consistent with the rules. The author's desire to retain the legacy behaviour is incorrect in my opinion. The correct behaviour is either to use the fraction button as he explains, or use brackets if choosing to input the calculation on a single input line. Either way, the calculator is functioning correctly and in future all calculators will function this way.
the 10x buttons is there to save you time. Insisting at "consistent" behaviour at the detriment of operational efficiency is ridiculous.
@@TheEddie581 Sorry, I don't follow your comment, could you expand a little to try and improve the clarity of your argument? Thanks
@@jjnevis The new behaviour is illogical and against standard algebra rules.
The standard, immutable order of evaluation is : power, multiply, divide, add and subtract . Like mr stewart physics does, he divides 686 by 8*10^-4. In the correct algebraic order, the multiplying of 8*10^-4 MUST therefore be done before the division.
The Casio fx-83GT CW does NOT do this. it divides 686 by 8 and THEN multiplies with 10^-4.
The only way to get the correct operation, brackets must be inserted to enforce the correct order. This is ludicrousand against the standard order of evaluation.
@@TheEddie581 multiply and divide have equal precedence and are therefore done in order of appearance from left to right.
@@TheEddie581 you coming round? Or do I still have more persuading to do? (I'm happy to be persuaded the other way :)
this can be annoying, but following the rules of BIDMAS does technically mean it works correctly
Does anyone know where the NCR button is?
My uni said they only allow Casio fx 83 and 85. I have never used a Casio calculator in my life cuz I've always thought they're settup was impractical. Reguadless, I unknowingly ordered the 85 expecting it to be the best model out of them all, but it was the worst decision of my life.
So time consuming pressing all extra buttons for nothing in exams just for it to give me the wrong answer in the end. This has to be the worst invention in recent times and wouldn't recommend it's usage to even my worst enemy.
The annoying part is the manufacturers think this monstrosity is an improvement. So disappointing.
I agree, poor show from Casio.😡
You needed to put the '(' and ')' to force presidence. You should have done it this way Ans/ (8x10^-4). Divide took presidence over multiplication.
The whole point of a dedicated ‘x10^’ button was to automatically connect mantissa and exponent and treat the entered value as a single number. This functionality has now gone.
Multiplication and division are equal operations so the calcutor will go simply from left to right.
Anyone know how to use the anti log button as well for this??
It's horrible! I lost my calculator and I have my maths GCSE in less than 2 months and I was forced to buy this new calculator and I have no idea how to use it and Casio don't even sell their old models anymore.
WH Smith sell a calculator that is pretty much a copy of the old fx83.
can you recommend an alternative scientific calculator for schools?
Well the old Casio Fx83/85s are discontinued so schools will just have to go with the new Casio school standard and make sure students are familiar with the new process of carrying out calculations correctly.
You need to use brackets
Wow, well spotted. Bought this for my son yesterday as he's required to have it in senior school. This seems like a significant shortcoming.
Btw you can get that exact answer by those old methods. If you get the latest casio calculator like 2nd gen ms, es, es plus then you have to do like this. You can't get that exact answer with that old method. You have to use brackets. Or ×10 will be count as a different part of that calculation. I don't why people are getting so f up by this thing. For me, It was a normal thing. Instead i thought that the old calculator had a problem or something lmao
I will be sticking to my RPN calculators where all this parenthesis BODMAS, PEMDAS nonsense doesn't even exist. Be one with the Stack. Ambiguity be gone I say, as I reveal my HP or SwissMicros calculator.
Ans/8.0 x 10-4 gives the wrong answer. Immediately don’t trust it.
please would you recommend which calculator to buy just started gcses
FX-83GT Plus (Not the CW version) the old version
@@thomaspaine5601 they don't sell that anywhere
What calculation is it doing to get the wrong answer. It’s worse than not having a calculator at all
I think it’s using bodmas as a normal calculation
@@missdixyd the *10^ has always been going before all other multiplications because it's not the usual multiplication but a separate number's part. the usual power to x doesn't work the same
I regret purchasing this calculator. Waste of my cash 😢 All I wanted was a good calculator upgrade. 😞
Wtf? So what use does the X10 button have then? That calculator is useless!
i know it is quite expencive but may i recoment a ti 84? honestly i got it to replace my casio fx-83gtx and my fx-83gt cw that my school provided and i never want to use a casio ever again. not sure if it can be used in exsams tho
I bought the new one recently, and it is absolute garbage. I am trying to look for a refund, I was told it was EXACTLY the same as the classic one, and that cannot be further than reality.
Same here! I wasted my money on this pathetic excuse of a calculator 😢😞
The old fx-83GT plus calculator is a fabulous calculator. The latest cw version looks and feels cheaply built. The display characters are smaller and harder to read. Many operations need more button presses to achieve the same thing. I do not like it. It has caused the price of the old fx83 GT plus calculators to soar on eBay! Can't believe Casio has discontinued the old calculator. Casio made such good calculators, they had completely cornered the market wiping out other companies like Sharp et cetera but they really have lost the plot with the last two iterations of this market-leading calculator.
A definite cheap replacement and an all-round poorer quality “upgrade”. As you say older models are selling for a pretty price on eBay. Think I’ll hold onto my ‘vintage’ models for a few more years🙂
I really hate this calculator too.
i guess there are now plenty of cell phone maths apps and they are at the level the calcs can never be, the new generations just learn from them.
Hello!
How peculiar
Definite floating point malfunction.
Engineer doing maths all day long for past 40 years. This product is Rubbish, cannot add 2 and 2 on it.