10th Anniversary Party Presentation - VRAGE3: Exploring New Worlds & Environments by Natiq Aghayev
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2023
- Full 10th Anniversary Party Livestream: / 1922418210
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This stuff looks really impressive. It takes some balls to make your own engine, let alone add all these features that a lot of games do not currently have!
History repeats itself
(in a good way)
wish i could have made this event, but my health has become too poor to travel that distance :(. I will say Thank you for ten years of game play and over 5k hours personally, for me, of entertainment from your amazing game big love guys. Miss you all.
Iam understanding i wanted to go too but hungary inflation is over 20% , but that not enough, my factory is getting new SMT line and I am one of the main engineer and they did not let me go, and the line did not made that time , and my boss knows that I am not happy.
Glad to see you here :) Loved watching your streams and playing some ark with you some time :)
Thank you for the vid. Please do not underestimate gas-giant simulation. MASSIVE g forces, heat, and if your ship even manages to get close enough without being ripped apart then also massive pressures. IF you're going for any level of realism
The ship would have to be built very badly to be ripped apart right? I mean planets and moons etc rip apart because they are only an aggregate of material as opposed to structural efficiency.
I don't get the desire for the most hardcore of realism 😂
There has to be a balance (the only balance I'm for)
ngl.. If Keen would kickstar for SE2, I would jump in on that faster than you can publish it.. There is always things that could be better, but to me Keen is one of the few studios that consistently deliver.
Cuz they had no idea what they were getting themselves into making SE 1, this sequel wont be as good cuz it's their mess-ups that made them push to make it work but if they already know and avoid X features when making the sequel with a new engine, we'll see a very cookie cut game bending their will to sell to Console users and a final product that'll be less than par
What they deliver are DLC's to keep it going, but they can't improve on the game, so they go via environments route.
This is like playing an Aircraft Simulator.
The amount of lagging would be off the charts.
@@oscargaming7582 You do know that he DLCs are IN ADDITION to new functionality and improvements with each update right? The DLC is in fact optional and (mostly) cosmetic. The actual functional changes are in the (free) update. It sounds like you are yapping but have not actually touched the game in a very long time.
@@blazemonger1 You got me wrong, I meant that their DLC's in the past are driven by the modders previous work. and the thing about improving functionality, that is the same as saying, rush the game and we will fix it later. Well, no Zhit Sherlock, of course the fixes has to be included on the free new updates.
"not actually touched the game in a very long time." If that makes you feel good, so be it.
@@LookOutForNumberOnegame developers add what players want. And if the players have the ability, they will more than likely mod it in before the devs can add a stable edition to the game.
Like when someone was making the water mod, Keen would create additional tools and such to make it easier for them to make the mod
So yea its easy to assume most additions are just ripping off mods when you dont look into why people mod games
Such an insightful and intriguing presentation! Thank you Natiq, it was a pleasure meeting you and being there!
The future of space engineers will most likely revolutionize sandbox/rpg/simulator type games, no doubt. This is amazing. I love space engineers and how immersive it can be. As soon as I bought I logged 100 hours by the first week. 400 hours now and it's been a year since I got it. I can/can't wait for the next installment of space engineers.
Keep up the work team, you guys are nailing it!
I've been playing the heck out of Starfield, but SE is still my go-to space game, and I love that you guys just keep making it better!
I almost never pre-order games anymore, and usually wait for Steam sales to buy DLC. However, SE is the exception. If/when you guys come out with SE2, I'm 100% pre-ordering. Whenever a new DLC comes out, I buy it within minutes of release.
KSH has never let me down. You guys are crushing it on all fronts. Keep doing what you're doing, and I will have zero issue continuing to support y'all!
I 100% agree with you, though I never played starfield I think it’s an awesome game too from what I’ve seen. But nothing will ever top my 1300 hours of fun in SE 🫡
I'd really like to see the slides from this presentation put on the site or somewhere as they where hard to see the detail of what was being conveyed.
Space Engineers 2 I'd love to have a procedural universe with NPC outposts on worlds
with real scale planets... honestly i just want real scale planets
@@TerranSpacePoliceReal scale planets may not be possible in SE, but I'd say they might get pretty damn close
@@jacksonbarkerthebluehairedfox I really want them to make it like in Kerbal Space Program, so planets will have their own orbits around star and that star is also procedurally generated, and they will spin, also I wish asteroids had physics too, so you could move them, they could orbit around planets and other stuff
@@cracker8328 To that, I say don't overhype yourself. Overhyping anything leads to disappointment.
That's not to say don't be excited for the next Space Engineers, but instead just try and keep your expectations reasonable.
@@jacksonbarkerthebluehairedfox The largest possible size is 8 Megameter diameter before the game disallows it. You can make Kerbal-Scale systems, if you stretch things.
With all these terrain details, I hope there is enough performance for an unlimited pcu or at least high pcu numbers
If I was in this presentation I would have wanted to make this question:
In Space Engineers 1 it is possible to add thruster vectors, aerodynamics and control surfaces and rebalance, nerf or outright delete the extremely overpowered gyroscopes with mods, while these additions make the game harder, it's surprisingly realistic and very enjoyable to design airplanes and ships that follow real life logic in order to fly, this also makes flying complex enough for land based vehicles to be relevant again, sort of balancing how in vanilla SE, strapping 20 thrusters to flying bricks reigns supreme, while in real life you cannot get away with that.
And so what I wanted to know is if any of this is being taken into account, if not into the main game, at least in a ''simulator mode'' where people can make stuff like that.
But of course, if that's not the direction you wanna follow with the game at least we would want a very robust framework to be able to mod these features in.
The issue is that the way those mods go about it is hilariously inefficient, and are performance wise absolutely unacceptable as a core feature of a game all about scaling up simple systems into complex ones.
This is the same reason why water mod is created in SE and water is considered in SE2, but that isn't added as a full feature in SE. For a mod it meets all the standards and more, but a cote framework requires far more than a passable concept.
@@mobiuscoreindustries I think about the comparison between arcade and realistic flight models the same way people made arguments back in the days about why adding a survival mode when creative was better, why would people want a new mode that restricted them in their creation process, when this mode would create all this unnecesary lag and bloat of needing power sources and conveyor systems (and you probably know as well as I do that it was and still is extremely unoptimized, where a ship that takes 10% of your cpu in creative could easily need 100% of it to run in survival, while in comparison all of these realistic flight mods might cause a 10% overhead that cancels out because the planes and ships need to be far smaller and efficiently engineered in order to fly )
But once people started getting a gasp of survival mode they realized that because the gamemode was so restrictive, even if it was more resource demanding, it would self balance because people would have to be smart about it, and the constraints of survival would actually force them to be more creative since everything you made had to pass the baptism of fire of survival mode
those features are already mods though? what are you even talking about
@@theaveragepro1749 yes, we have these mods but xocliw once talked about aerodynamics and thruster vectors and i wanna know if they're thinking about implementing it in a proper way or if we will have to find out hacky ways to mod it back in
Interesting stuff! But I couldn't help but think that "worldbuilders" are obsessed with making everything bumpy/rocky. Probably because it looks cool and "feels" natural. But as a player you really want flat areas once in a while. Not just for building, but also for your vehicles. Star Citizen has the same problem when it comes to this. Many planets are just covered in rocks. (almost in a chess pattern)
I also hope they are working on river generation. Dried up rivers would make great roads!
Dried up rivers on earth have been the sites of dinosaur footprint fossils. I wonder if SE2 will ever have archeology like minecraft or even paleontology. I think that would make world exploration interesting and fun.
Las montañas dan realismo... no conssidero ni las montañas ni k SC tenga "ese mismo problema".
It is such a nice thing to watch a young company do so much with in a few years. I have fully enjoyed and will continue to enjoy Space Engineers. I cannot wait to see whats next!!! Keep up the great work!!!
Literally sitting on the edge of my seat blown away! Can’t wait for more!!
This stuff looks really cool , good work!
This looks amazing!!!
I think the most important question was asked at around 20:40 regarding the look of edited terrain from space.
There are significant gameplay issues with space engineers that make the game difficult to break from being more than just a good sandbox.
Being able to just look at the planet from orbit and see exactly where someone is because they've edited the terrain is exactly one of those issues.
I personally wished someone had asked a question regarding making terrain more navigable. Having lots of small detailed rocks and bumps makes the planet look good it's going to make for an extremely unpleasant experience trying to drive your grids around. Perhaps there will be a possible road generation pass or something else? Who knows, but I wish there was more thought communicated into that topic when it comes to terrain gen for SE because it's a significant issue on certain if not most planets.
Gameplay design is going to be the biggest challenge and kind of always has been for SE. No doubt, amazing sandbox. The new terrain shown looks amazing, but I hope it has it been asked internally, "is this fun?". This continues to be the issue with SE1 and if they make an SE2 I hope they put a lot more effort into this aspect, or they'll be doomed to repeating the same gameplay design issues SE1 has with capturing survival being fun to actually play either in single or multiplayer.
I hope that if anyone from Keen reads my comment that you would be able to share more with us in the future addressing about how significant gameplay and design issues in SE1 will be addressed in either SE2 or in the future for the current game.
Maybe we'll get a road tool for our builds. Like you slap it on and it flattens the ground in a path in front of you. Like voxel hands but better and as a block.
I agree, small holes causing visible artifacts from orbit is bad, but on the other hand, is we really do make drastic changes, like flattening a peek using explosives, will that reflect on the baked views?
@davidsmartensson I'm not really sure what the happy medium solution would be. In my opinion, for that particular issue, maybe it should just be an enabled disable option because I could understand in single player you want that, in competitive multiplayer you probably don't.
It also kind of raises a much deeper question as to what exactly is multi player SE supposed to be? Is it supposed to be a free for all like some kind of Rust experience where you're building a base and destroying others? Is it supposed to be more of a PvE experience? It's nice that Keen aims to try and cater to everyone but in doing so they cater to no one. Maybe they should make a clear decision on what vanilla gameplay is and means. Doing so would make answering these types of questions regarding orbital voxels much easier. There is always mods of non vanilla anyway.
@@AndrewTFenn I think it should be based on size, a small hole should not make an impact in orbit, but if you level a mountaintop your obviously not trying to hide ;)
Same if you build a 500 m high pyramid or above ground spaceport covering a square km.
But currently, just digging a man sized hole can give away your location from km away, there should be some kind of middle ground :)
Hmm if you implement horizontal mapping too, thus facilitating caves and such, you will probably need to think about a material "hardness" setting too. Players will very likely want to build in caves, and it would make sense for really 'hard rock' voxel materials to be more difficult to drill/mine/dig out to avoid the current games issue that a single player with a hand drill can tunnel past all the normal defences of the base. You could even scale it so you also have nearly indestructable and fully indestructable materials like "bedrock" (in minecraft for example) for nearly indestrucable you would need explosive force to mine it.
Then the next issue is softer voxel materials. Which probably means the physics inquisition will push for structural integrity or "really soft" materials that can collapse down. You could probably kill two birds with one stone and merge "structural integrity" with "viscosity" and combine water physics and structural integrity as being the same thing using "hardness" and "viscosity" low viscosity things, unsupported would move in the direction of gravity. Bam and now you have working sand, water and rock using one section of code. Really low viscosity could even allow players to move (or fall) through it. In the case of water for instance.
This is an amazing showcase for the future of this game!
The game is 10 years old, but I still think that there are simply no analogues. Thanks to the engine and game development team. Keep working on your wonderful project.
Space Engineers has become my most played game on Steam, it feels like home while playing, so naturally I'm looking foward to SE2 to become even a better experience. Thank you and congratulations!!!
Now if only we could start a petition to combine Medieval and Space Engineers. Imagine having to start in the iron age and then moving up to space age. Then being able to enter atmosphere and explore/conquer an iron age base.... 🤑
20:23
You can use morphology and blending along with a small set of optimized deformation shapes or shaders to merge and modify with some best-fit estimations of significant voxel modifications with the terrain base map and view. Details can be blended or morphed in smoothly without sharp transitions. A simplification of the operations performed can be summarized as tunnels being comprised of cylinders or curved, buildings rectangular or pyramidal, craters from mistakes and mining are spherical, etc. Everything can be boiled down to easy steps to fill in a feature thats been needed since the beginning. All modern high-performance AI algorithms use basics and common rationale and build them up into something super-human after all. We are often locked into the idea that everything works best when its programmatic, but that limits our ability to achieve and attain actual progress. Its not like the software could be any more error prone or slower than it already is in common app circles and many games. (yes.)
Excited!
All I want is Space Engineers, but targeting a definitive Survival experience
Space Engineers deserves to be a true space exploration survival game
keep up the great work!
beautiful terrains and planets. I hope these changes are coming soon.
One of my favorite games but I really miss diversity in exploring the planets, lack of caves, different biomes, it seems like the whole planet is always in a temperate climate, now in the future it would be incredible to have the liquid system working with a tropical biome, wide variety of trees, waterfalls, even a more practical tool than the voxel hands, which I find particularly annoying to use
Indeed, ecology deserves an insane level of attention.
There is so much potential if VRAGE3 was ported to Space engineers or make space engineers 2 with this engine. Great stuff Keen.
Awesome looking rover hell
Very nice. Great job :)
Let's go !!
Наконец то... Дождалииись))))
Проработанные планеты это прямо то, чего нам так не хватает. Мужики, вы лучшие. Моë почтение, обожаю вашу игру
You guys have been making some impressive work on Space Engineers 2. Looking forward to playing it in 2028.
Space Engineers is still dope i didn't even it was developed in 2013 it's still is a awesome & kind of relaxin' game :)
i hope SE will be ported to their new engine... i propably wouldnt mind a "SE 2" but a newer, cleaner engine could propel the current game to new heights
Yep, there is also so much in the base game that need changes that a SE 2 would make a lot of sense.
I agree. There are so many mods and other mechanics that if they could just port it over would make things simpler.
They can't port the engine to the current game because it will be like tearing off the floor of a skyscraper, it will collapse. Basically, they would need to redo the entire game to make it.
Not really possible, you'd have to remake everything, and then you might as well make a new game with lessons you learned from the last one.
I assume IF they're making it SE 2, i'd assume they're gonna do it like Valve did with CS2, basically being a huge expansion
Personally, i'd prefer them keep the name of the game without calling it a sequel, but it would definitively qualify as a 2.0 update
I dont think they're building a whole new engine from the ground up, but it sure does look like they're refreshing the whole thing. And if the engine is built for games like SE, then it might not be as much of a nightmare as it would be for other engines
One thing I would love to see in Varge3 and SE2 would be a better thermal mechanic system and air flow system. Proper temperatures as opposed to just warm and cold. If possible, evaporation and freezing mechanics. Dynamic temperature flow via a better fluid air mechanic, which we know is in the works for fluids, at least the dynamic flow mechanism. It would make planets far more dynamic and cool! Frozen tundras that actually freeze your ships external armour. Combustion Engines that need to be placed outside due to heat output when running. I can imagine the possibilities that come with air flow and thermal mechanics, and they are beautiful.
Keep up the great work Keen, just a heads up: the detail on terrain is amazing but imo it looks like it’s going to almost kill wheel based ground travel in a space engineers setting, too rough to drive over easily
That sounds like something for the engineers to solve..
Tank threads must become a viable solution!
If you're talking about Tesselation adding small rocks and such, that is primarly shader based and doesn't change the terrain's hitbox, so that won't be a problem for wheels. Mid sized stones as well dont necessarily need to have a hitbox to be scattered around the terrain. The only real cause for trouble would probably be the increased voxel resolution adding more detail, but then again, it doesn't mean every bit of a planet *needs* to be as bumpy as those dreaded cliffsides we have in the game currently lol
But speaking of driving difficulties, it does sound like a great excuse to try adding tank tracks and such to the game
Finally!
With AI becoming such a powerful tool. I wonder if Keen has thought about integrating that in the planet generation. I.E. a player who wants a planet to look like lets say planet Andor from SW. That person can input that information and it will generate a planet with the look and feel of that planet. Or they can blend multiple planets by inputing different arguments in the string. It can generate a preview pic of what it looks like on the surface. If he or she does not like it they can play around with the different arguments until they see a pic before it actually generates the planet.
that's actually pretty bad ass and complicated holy hell
Wow!
Epic
Can’t wait for keen to find a way to paywall this like most of the cool new things they’ve added to the game these past like 5 or so years :/
Keen and Iron Gate, you have it where it counts!
One thing I find is if you make the ground too bumpy, there's nowhere to drive or land.
Happy birth day SE
For the detail maps, would it be possible to utilize them in different areas? Currently you are limited to one detail and it applies to the entire world at whatever range of degree's you set it to. There are instances where I would like to use it at a very flat/low range in particular biomes. But then again at steeper ranges. But that's not possible at this time. Being able to dictate the detail map at different ranges and for specific biomes would be fantastic.
Best game ever
Hi, I made a couple planets, the most noteworthy being Terra Realistic.
Which software do you recommend to accurately work with a 16-bits heightmap ? I use Gimp but for a strange reason, numerical values do not exploit the full 16-bits accuracy (only 1 decimal from 0.0 to 255.9 to going straight from 128.1 to 128.2, meaning skipping 25 possible values), can any image editing software manage 16-bits with pinpoint accuracy ?
Or will this new engine come with a planet editor that will make planets easier to edit ?
Great stuff!!! Can we have single and dual flight stick compatibility please?
Thank you!!
Hopefully, Space Engineers 2 will allow us importing our blueprints from SE1 to this one. Pretty sure modded ones won't work for reasons.
@@rolandmine6693This puts my mind at ease and makes me really want SE 2 now (thanks)
@@rolandmine6693I don't think that's possible. There are many blocks that are getting new models because they will consist of several individual parts in the future. There are also new different block sizes.
Realism is nice-this tech looks spectacular-but what Space Engineers needs is to be a real GAME with various kinds of goals, rewards, interaction and gawd forbid the elements of a story. Self-directed sandboxes are fun and all, but the Space Engineers franchise would lose most of its fanbase to a competitor who just implemented an SE1 clone with an actual game behind it. Please tell us you have plans for GAMEPLAY.
Don't speak for all of us!
Imagine replicating planets from other games we all know and like, just to be able to walk on AEGIS 7 from dead space 1 would be amazing, not that its too different from mars with dark rock instead of current material yet the volcanic terrain currently is hard to mimic
So more rocks...
When will they add the feature where NPCs can be summoned?
Молодец, Диплом защитил
I cant wait for more terrain options to utterly destroy my rovers in!
Will it gives to replace of the actually wolds, with the New technics?
Biggest issue of neglect, performance. The core growth of the game is having a lot of people on a single instance, everything else should come after that. Having 1-20 people on a instance vs hundreds makes or breaks the game. Having shiny things will only hold peoples attention for a short period. The DLCs are a prime example, which is no longer bringing people back for short periods. The human interaction and having 10s of thousands of blocks per grid, mix with mechanics of game play, would spring board the game. Its contradictive, to have a vast expansive to travel and explore but can't fill it with grids and voxels, you end up with a single player with cross over. I'm being that stickler, but if it wasn't for the modding community, trying to squeeze out every drop of performance and adding overlay enhancements for game play, the SE pop wouldn't even be 1/10 of what it is today. Performance should always be top priority, everything else can follow after it.
No.
If performance is "top" priority, we'd still be in the 8 bit era.
The point is to have an all around vision so you can build that from the ground up.
Only then, can you figure out what you CAN do and where to look for performance saving changes.
What about npc interactions and bring more life’s in the game? Do you have something on the roadmap?
Will you have other star systems?
Tesselated terrain looks cool and all, but if it's physical as well, as you said it, it will be extremely painful to drive on, with any kind of rower.
seamless edges dont seem like a hard problem to me to solve, you just gotta actually do it, but overall still a lot of good work
Good to hear we have better base defence more compact blocks and new generation+phisics in the way only think what is missing is more cpu on multi but its a long way.
I asked Marek Rosa on Twitter a while back if vrage3 was planned for multicore utilisation. His answer was a resounding "Yes, thats our main goal" :)
@@Revale07 i love this company i remember when long time ago i write about inventory management and discribe the new one in free think form on their forum they not only use all idea but add quick draw by middle mouse bottom
My only question... When?
Now I am going to have to hire a pilot for my ship just so I can sip a cuppa tea whilst enjoying the terrain go by.
Advanced ai can pilot for u ai blocks rule
When wull water look like water and not only ice?
Space Engineers 2?!
Next presentation: Water
*Sweats profusely 😅
O my simspeed
Prepare to invest in super computers to JUST run the environment.
for the next Q&A will you please repeat the questions asked by the audience members. I cannot hear the question and the answers are not as meaningful for me. ty
This is very cool. But please, Keen, can i do stable multiplayer without going through 100 hoops??? *thatwouldmakemesohaaaaappy*
I wonder if they will make to where you can create and name your own planets
when will liquid water appear on the planets ??? 😏
Tell me it's $300 for an EA and I'll hop right in idc
Is this gonna be the same game or another one,m
So far I understand the very last question on the end it will be a SE 2.
@@Hoto74 w
Come back on Medieval Engineers !
I love space enginners, i have over 300 hours in game, but i allways miss something in this game, it's map is just empty. There are no intresting events, npcs or stuff to do when you finnish building your ultimate ship-base, that's why i spend my time with elite dangerous, even thought i prefer building my ship from scrach, and walk around it, in space enginners there is nothing fun to do exept for fighting once in a while, which also is geting boring.
I hope we cannot see where people have been digging on the surface from space any more. I guess the backed overlay will fix that ?
I love SE1 but with SE2 I have the feeling it will be a performance disaster.
PLEASE remember that the first launch of a game is the most important, if the performance is already bad you will lose 80% of the player base permanently
пусть лучше механик добавят! В космосе инженеры воюют пулеметами и пушками, а они вместо добавления новых механик делают графику!
Ну, я так понимаю, геймдизайнера они в команду так и не взяли и по прежнему думают, что их игра это симулятор снятия скринов буровика на фоне высокополигональных гор... на выходе будет опять 15 фпс, кланг из всех дыр и ноль геймплея. Ах ну да, строить из кубиков на 100 тыс. полигонов корабль, чтоб залить в воркшоп. Надеюсь, геометрия все еще рассчитывается на одном ядре? А тонну мусорных звуков для каждого блока напихаете? Ну, чтоб при установке 10-и водородных движков звук в игре ломался к хренам. Если серьезно, работа с ландшафтом, конечно, впечатляющая, но если это все не будет адекватно оптимизировано, а к тем же пещерам не будет прикручен хоть какой-то геймплей, все эти красивости нахрен пойдут. Воркшоп не сможет спасать вас вечно.
SE is completely persistent so it could technically become a more immersive RPG than Starfield
Starfield is probably the least immersive RPG I've ever seen. Not a hard thing to do.
nice hopefully you wont do what you did to Space arena and Miner wars to Space engineers .."here is what we can do BUT IN THE NEXT GAME OF OURS " coz i will be making sure to be absolutely vocal on steoroids in every nook and crany about your OLD FFAILED AND ABANDONED GAMES..thats 3 PROJECTS THAT KEEN HAS ALREADY ABANDONED ITS PATTERN NOW!!
Not very optimistic with se2. Soo many bugs in se1, Klang, optimization, sim is terrible and never been fixed. Also some of the mods to se and pretty extensive in making the game more fun and quicker then what keen does. The Graphics already suck for 2023 compared to other games. I'm hoping I'm wrong but with keeps track record 2030 is the release date with many bugs.