I used to grind directly into the filter and then do some WDT. With my new grinder, I changed to grinding in a dosing cup (less messy). I then put the filter on the dosing cup, turn them around, give them a bit of a shake (not much). I then use a distributor give it a few swirls and a tamp. Maybe I could skip the distributor but I kind of like the feeling of it and I think tamping directly might spill a few grounds (more mess). I’ll give it a try without the distribution tool though, just out of curiosity.
@cicciobello8470 Here in the Netherlands, some specialty coffee bars do WDT but most of them don’t. My very rough guess would be 1 out of 3. Keep in mind that SC bars are a small minority amongst general coffee bars.
Though I agree with the sentiment that less can be more in espresso preparation, and that there is a lot of pseudoscientific claims in the space/maybe too much faff, I can’t help but note this argument that channeling is a myth is based on a flawed premise: that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence. So in this case, the fact that for you with your equipment that you don’t see visual spurting is the evidence that channeling doesn’t exist, but is that really true? Spurting from a piece of coffee plugging a hole on your basket like putting your thumb over a garden hose causing spraying isn’t necessarily channeling, it’s just random luck. Furthermore, I think you discount the puck prep that you did all the same. You distributed the grounds by shaking, tapped the portafilter down several times to settle the grounds, and you are using a medium to dark roast it seems, where the increased viscosity is just going to cover up a lot simply because of surface tension. You also do a long low flow pre infusion that also can help with channeling. So yes, I’m sure in your hands with all of these aids you might not observe a lot of visual spurting. But that doesn’t necessarily make an argument that channeling is made up. I could easily take my specialita at home (similar grinder to your libra), but just dump the grounds in, no shaking or tapping, tamp unlevel with a list to the right, and have a gusher of a shot only out of the right side of the portafilter. By this same logic would that prove channeling exists? I’m not saying you have to buy any gadgets to do puck prep. But if anything I think this video is more an argument that you can cover up a lot as long as you do some puck prep, like shaking to distribute, tapping to settle, and using headspace to your advantage, as I suspect a compressed puck with little headspace won’t have a lot of space to expand too much and have channeling go awry.
I don’t think his point was that channeling doesn’t exists but that not doing WDT nor using a distribution tool doesn’t necessarily lead to channeling. That’s how I perceived it anyway. He likes slow extractions. The last pull was 37s. That would require finding finer and wouldn’t that increase the risk on channeling? (I assume that he uses normal pressure of about 9 bar).
@@Conservator. I think I was going off of the last lines of the video where he says "there's no such thing as channeling", but hey, happy if @wiregourmet want's to correct me here if I was miss-interpreting! I will note his machine allows him to pre-infuse for a duration of time of his choosing (you can see him actuate the lever, pause and not lift it all the way up to let the puck gently expand under the pressure there but not actuate the 3 way solenoid that would unseat the puck , before he engages the pump to 9 bar, he talked about this technique he prefers in a prior video). This is conjecture on my part, but I suspect 37 second shot could have a similar grind size as a 27 second shot if you just add ~10 seconds of pre-infusion rather than engaging the pump immediately. Don't get me wrong I agree with a lot of what he says, you don't need fancy tools/to spend a lot of money to do home espresso, and if your coffee tastes good to you, then great that's the point! But much of the video imho maligns puck prep as useless BECAUSE he has found he doesn't need to use it using his gear, his beans, and his preferred style of espresso pull based on dosing by volume. That may be well and good for him, which is great, there's no problem with that! Not everyone want's their morning coffee with a side of faffery! But my argument is I also think he is doing a lot of things here to his advantage to make his point (using darker roasted beans, long pre-infusion, shaking the espresso grounds to distribute and then tapping to settle them, and ultimately though he jokes around with his prolonged tamp the final tamp is sufficiently level/hard). And I think if he did this with a few of those things left out (like with light roasted coffee, for example, and not doing any distribution whatsoever), he may not have as easy a time. I also don't don't know if everyone discussing coffee distribution is in it to make bunches of money. You can make a WDT tool with a used cork and needles, even if you buy accupuncture needles its a $5 investment, and I'm sure the accupuncture needle manufacturers of the world could care less about us coffee nerds let alone form a conspiracy to convince us to WDT just to sell more needles.
@@lbafro2011 just fyi The 37s did not include pre-infusion! He has mentioned on previous videos that he prefers long shots. Yes, pre-infusion does help a lot (so I’ve heard) and darker roasted coffee is much easier to extract. He does do some puck prep like you described. The shake and tapping. My takeaway from the video is that minimal puck prep is sufficient to pull great shots. Somehow many people feel the need to react to the suggestion that puck prep isn’t necessary. Well obviously it is, otherwise no coffee would end up in the filter😁 so it’s the amount of it that’s the point of the video imo. My puck prep is more or less similar to his. I use fairly easy beans but I don’t (can’t) do pre-infusion and I’m able to pull consistently pretty good shots. I agree with you on the WDT.
When using a very soluble coffee espresso is dead easy. As long as you use a good grinder and machine and suit your dose to the basket it’ll pull well. Most of the puck-prep these days is aimed squarely at mitigating the issues that arise when pulling very lightly roasted dense coffees. Nordic roasts are super hard to extract causing all kind of problems. With these coffees channeling definitely exists. It would be very interesting if you were to redo this experiment with one of those coffees.
I love your videos, but this one comes across as a little hand-wavey. Saying “forget all that nonsense” about puck prep and WDT isn’t especially convincing, when there is extensive evidence that some forms of puck prep improve extraction % a significant amount. And your proof? That you can pull “good looking” shots with a medium or (more likely) medium-dark roast bean. I’d love to buy into the idea that a bit of 2008 nutation tamping is all we need for good espresso, but I’m just not quite convinced. If the point of this video were that the supposed extraction gains from luck prep are overrated (or don’t produce better flavour), I might be on board.
Yes, those three shots absolutely full of channeling and looked quite horrible lol. I love your tongue and cheek approach. I have the Profitec Pro 600, along with the Mahlkonig GBW 65 grinder (Absolutely best ever, and no need for single dosing with perfect results every time) I also use a dynamometric tamper from Macap, which is normally expensive, but my Dad purchased it for me used on Ebay for about 25 Euros, and I could replace the head from an inexpensive tamper to match the 55.5mm, making the tamping as simple and perfectly levelled every time. People have taken the process of making coffee to extremes, and realistically keeping it simple without 25 extra steps yields the best results. Keep up the great work, Thomas. Cheers, Greg
After I watched your video about using volume and not weight when preparing the coffee puck, things started to improve here. Using volume and not weight, my extractions improved a lot. Great video!! Thank you very much.
Since I did not have a scale when I started with espresso I adopted the "volumetric" style of grinding. Once I get the grind and amount dialed in I never saw the need for further refinement.
I've definitely seen channeling at home. It happens when I grind the coffee way too fine. It doesn't bore a hole through the puck though, it forces water all around the rim and lifts the puck up out of the basket, welding it to the shower screen when the pressure is released. The end result is a crap coffee that's both bitter and sour. The solution is to grind coarser and use a bit less coffee for more headspace, as you said!
Thanks for the no BS video yet again. I do enjoy the ritual of making espresso. We just got a Breville Oracle and the coffee out of that is far better than a the Rocket Giotto I had about 17 odd years ago. Either that or the beans have changed. I actually enjoy espresso out of my Oracle. To test the beans changing I have brought some Illy coffee still in the can and I will see how that is compared to the local roasters. I might even to a video on it.
I will say that this is not necessarily true for all grinders. I have a great grinder, but in the long journey down the chute, large particles will settle to the bottom and end up in one side of the basket. Without WDT, it is a spraying, foul-tasting mess. I do not disagree with the conmcept of volume being the way to go, but I personally need WDT for my shots.
The headspace point is an interesting one. I watched your video on volume over mass with espresso, and it explained something about the default instructions for the Breville Barista Pro. There's no discussion of weight - it's grind into the portafilter, tamp with anywhere between 22 and 33 lbs of force, and use their "The Razor™️" tool to scrape off the extra and flatten the top of the puck. I'm guessing the engineers at Breville came to the same conclusion you did: ensuring proper headspace mattered more than the mass of the grinds. Perhaps they were right - despite trying WDT, a spring-loaded self-leveling tamper, and various other gadgets/tools/techniques, the approach Breville recommended focusing on get the right distance to the shower screen pretty much always came out best. That being said, I definitely had jets of espresso shooting out of my bottomless portafilter with some of the things I tried - I don't know if it was channeling, but it was definitely wrong 😅
Have you seen what they did with the impress puck system on the Express Impress and Touch Impress? It's basically a calibrated tamper with a sensor integrated into it which lives in the chute of the integrated grinder. You grind into the portafilter and pull the tamp handle down and if it needs more it will tell you and you just press the grind button to grind a little more, then tamp again and it will tell you when you have the ideal dose. So, Sage/Breville certainly don't seem to think that WDT is a necessary practice.
I'm not in the least bit surprised at these results. I always wondered why go through extra steps like distribution, shaking or using needles. They say that it improves extraction. I follow your philosophy on taste. I don't even use a funnel, just grind straight to the portafilter, use a force tamper, because I use the same specs every day and same coffee I have similar results like you've demonstrated on this video. I use a Profitec Pro 600, and Mahlkonig E65 GBW, best combo imaginable.
I use a flair 58, without shower screen and with the full volume of water put up on the puck screen before pressure is applied. Some coffees I can seem to dump tap and tamp. Some coffees (adjusting for dose) sprays, tastes bitter and sour simultaneously. And this is a crap shoot too some come out good and some make a mess and taste like one. I think puck prep isn't important until it is. Light roast coffees, or hand grinders that jostle grounds before they're transferred into the basket. Poor quality grinders.
You're supposed to use the puck screen on the Flair 58 though, the water doesn't cover the bed evenly without it. You're basically removing an essential part of the machine and blaming everything else for not getting you good shots
I am using the puck screen. Well I suppose that wasn't included in this video - I use a puck screen for everyshot. Still get visible and testable channeling under certain conditions.
Overall, I agree with this video, in that coffee being too high in the basket causes issues, especially if the grounds are prone to expansion. Slightly too low does not matter to me cause I use a mesh screen resting on the coffee. Also casual puck prep like in this video with grounds properly sized is just fine. I do it all the time and the puck comes out perfect. I would add that if the puck is not fully level, you will simply get a slightly uneven extraction that is irrelevant as long as you make sure that the puck is fully saturated before applying permanent high pressure. In this situation the tamping with circular rocking shown in this video actually helps to ensure all of the coffee is tamped. When I was doing puck prep different ways, I found certain things could cause the puck to break down. One was large voids in the coffee from how the grounds were placed in the basket. Another was using a leveling tool that caused a shear line weakness that led to side channeling in the middle of the puck. Another was using a dirty WDT tool that grounds stuck to and the removal of said tool left significant tunnels in the coffee puck. Also if the grind had enough fines, doing something that migrated the fines to a pert of the puck caused issues. This could be side tapping moving the fines to the side, or excessive WDT which can migrate the fines to the bottom. Sometimes simpler is better.
As a German I applaud the sarcasm. Very well done. OK.... Come tomorrow morning I will fill my portafilter with my coffee and no leveler, WDT and puck screen. Lets see. I will now watch your video on headspace.
@@roncenti it is “just” an e61 with no functional/automated pre infusion. But he manages to keep pressure manually between 4 and 10 bars until 1 gram of liquid in cup.
@@c2329ra"just" is funny. I have "just" a Gaggia classic Pro. That is a different kind of "just". 😆 Yes that lever would be useful. One day... maybe.🤷♂
How do you think a puck screen affects the need to adjust headspace? My intuition is that the puck screen works effectively as a secondary, perfectly matching shower screen, as the distance between the puck screen and coffee puck is zero. Intuitively, for me, the distance between the puck screen and the shower screen seems not to matter.
My experience is that there can’t be too much distance when using a puck screen. You’ll just end up with a bit of water on top of the puck screen after you’ve pulled a shot. No problem and works like a treat imo.
I must confess that I have tried, twice. Huge mess on my machine and scale. There were squirts that reached the grinder. I don't think this works for my light beans or my sculptor 078s grinder. On the plus side, the third shot, with a higher dose than I usually use and regular needle WDT was the best shot in weeks. I will revisit your video on dose.
I mostly agree but after making espresson for 10 years on the same grinder/machine my consistency improved quite a lot when a I got a scale and a wdt tool. neither are necessary though. I can easily fill my basket by eye but I can't grind by eye so the scale helps there for achieving the right volume
I appreciate you putting these videos out! I am only a few months old in making espresso for my wife and can use all the info you are willing to share in order to provide her with a good tasting cup. The sucky part is im not a coffee drinker and so im having a hard time understanding what I am putting out for her as far as taste and flavors go.
Love your videos! I’ve definitely experienced plenty of “channeling” which seems to have been resolved with some WDT? My counter top can vouch for me, but I’m definitely going to be doing some experimenting this weekend. Also, my shots have improved greatly after watching your video about ditching the flow control. Got rid of mine and am only sad I didn’t do it sooner! Thanks again! Love your channel (no pun intended).
I grind directly into a dosing cup. I then put the filter on the cup, turn them 180° and shake a few seconds to level the coffee. After that I use a leveller and tamp. Maybe I could skip the leveller but I kind of like it. I will give it a try though. Just out of curiosity: How did your ‘experiment’ go?
Great demonstration of all the puck prep voodoo stuff - the only thing I would consider between grinding directly into the portafilter (to avoid unnecessary contact with aggressive oxygen) is to slightly use a WDT-tool with .35-0.4 needles tomale the extraction more homogeneously
How do you apply this volumetric approach to something like the Cafelat Robot? I definitely get "bad pucks" with it, from time to time, and I'm not always sure why. Using paper filters has definitely improved the consistency rate, but I've also noticed that it seems like tamping it down real hard (like the "30 lbs of pressure" received wisdom you always hear) increases my chance of getting a bad shot. Watching the shot in a mirror with a naked filter, it looks like maybe the water is going *around* the puck instead of through it. Certain dark roasts and high-robusta blends (like Vietnamese coffee) also seem more prone.
Your pre-infusion makes a whole lot of difference. Also your coffee beans seem to be pretty good. Try some older / dryer beans of less quality and get something drinkable out of them. Channeling happens easily and hard. Your machine is also a factor not to be ignored. For a cheaper lower quality combo puck preparation makes a difference Edit: Totally agree with your conclusion on what is important at the end But CO2 bubbles hardly occur with older coffee beans (which most regular people use, knowing it or not)
I always have issues, flavor consistency wise, but I'm pretty certain it's because I have a stock Gaccia classic pro with awful temp control. How much improvement have I noticed with Puck prep? Not much. But upgrading the basket and trying to temp surf seemed to help the most. I'll install a PID one of these days.
Well, puck-prep is a requirement for consistency, so you are doing well I’d say. Without it it’d be harder to improve the shots by different means and almost impossible to dial by taste.
you left out key information: what coffee are you drinking, roast level, is it a blend with robusta or arabica only, how long after roast do you drink (relevant to CO2 levels in the coffee that could damage the puck), have you ever tasted strong sourness and strong bitterness in any espresso you prepared, and if so, what did you do to fix it
I missed the point? I said we can break the rules about always level tamping, and dispense with the expensive gimmicks, and still get a mechanically sound shot so long as we fill the basket correctly. Then I demonstrate doing exactly that. WTF are you going on about?
Don’t get me wrong, I love your channel and think you are one of the best coffee UA-camrs. But I think you got this one a bit wrong. At 10:51 you state that espresso is easy if you understand it, channeling is a myth, and elaborate puck-prep is a superstitious ritual. However for the testing you’re using a very soluble coffee that’s super easy to extract. Most of the coffee obsessed these days are using very lightly roasted, highly dense coffees that are very hard to extract. Elaborate puck-prep exists to mitigate the issues that arise when pulling these coffees specifically. You’re debunking the validity of this obsessive puck-prep while using the wrong kind of coffee, hence my EV vs combustion engine analogy. If you were to redo this experiment with a dense light roast and came to the same findings then great. But I’m guessing it would be an entirely different story.
Ok, but why do you think you know what coffee I'm using? You say it's a soft, low-density dark roast. Actually, it's a dense Ethiopian landrace grown at 1900-2400m. You can check the whole bean sample in the ramekin around 12 mins in. As you can see, the contrast between the silver skin and the bean surface is substantial, indicating a medium roast. There's no oil visible -- I roasted it well short of the start of second crack. Keep in mind that it's impossible to judge actual color in a YT vid when there are so many variables involving camera white balance, and light temperature, and contrast, and editor adjustments, and codecs, and processing via YT, and monitor settings, and viewer ambient lighting... Also, I don't know for a fact that the coffee I used is more or less prone to channeling than dark-roasted, low-altitude, commercial-grade Brazilian naturals. I'm not sure that's an established fact (seems more like an excuse, lol). TBH, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that dark/soft coffee is prone to gum up the works and actually show some channeling, but I haven't tested it. As for light roasting, that's out for me: my water has absurdly low residual alkalinity & light roasts taste horrible, raw, flavorless, acidic (really, I don't know why people claim to like it, unless they have chalky water).
The difference between the roast development of the coffees I’m talking about is anything but subtle. On camera they will be bright orange. These coffees are essentially Nordic roasts, a hot fast style of roasting that ends while the coffee is still in the first crack. Some can be dropped as low as 398° F (203°C) with a development percentage of around 10%. They are very hard to extract using the standard espresso method, that’s where turbo shots started as a way of getting more flow to achieve a higher extraction yield in a shorter amount of time to draw out subtle flavors and sweetness without ending up with lemon juice. So much of the complicated puck-prep is centered around this style of espresso. WDT, RDT, blind-shakers, paper filters above and below the puck, puck screens, etc. Espresso for me is all about solubility. The less soluble a coffee is the harder it is to extract. It’s that simple. I can tell, not only by the color of the beans in your hopper and the grounds in your portafilter, but by the extraction itself that this is a very soluble coffee, even if it’s a high-grown Ethiopian. I own and operate a roasting company in Nova Scotia, Canada and have been a professional roaster since 1997. So I’m well acquainted with both traditional and modern espresso. I teach people how to pull in all styles. And again, I’m not a hater, your channel is one of the best. I purchased the new Vario Plus after seeing your tear-down video. I just think making a blanket statements that espresso is easy if you match your dose volumetrically to your basket, channeling is a myth, and complicated puck-prep is nonsense, is going to confuse more people than help them. That’s my two cents.
Spritzer I think handles a different issue: retention of grinds in the grinder due to static. I personally find that spritzing (my kitchen is somewhat low humidity, thus more static than a high humidity kitchen) helps a lot, in very noticeable ways. I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t physically see a difference.
I can help with doing things wrong if you want content on how not to do it :) I was promised everything will be solved if I get a proper grinder (instead of buying pre ground coffee like I had for years) So I bought one almost a year ago. Still not getting it right. Or to be honest I don't know anymore what "right" is supposed to look/taste like. I only drink cappuccino so...all shots taste bitter too me. I do get this super slow drip, then a flushing. Should mean that the ground is too fine. If I go up it flushes through very fast, so I should go down in grind size. I got a leveling tool instead of a tamper. How do I know that the tool is set right and doesn't press too hard/too loose? My puck is super soggy after extraction with pooled water and space along the edge. I'm using a 58mm basket with a 58.5mm leveling tool, eureka mignon grinder (set to under 1), dark roast, gaggia classic machine. Thankful for any hints. I've been doing this for almost 4 years and went to a barista class (unfortunately we didn't go through how to set a grinder and since I didn't have one at the time I didn't ask) Help
reddit makes this seem like this video is conspiracy, but has it always been like this in italy eh? This is crazy stuff after following a cult of wdt! i feel liberated! Your my new favorite espresso youtuber! Subscribed!!!!!
As someone who uses a cafelat robot, what sort of headspace would you recommend for that particular basket? Or are there different principles at work in that case.
Headspace is only half of the volume concern. A perfect headspace isn’t of much use if you use a basket that’s too big or too small. Because the puck will still be too thick or too thin for an even extraction. In your case you don’t need to worry about headspace directly, just about your puck’s thickness.
The Robot is a different design, with the shower screen in contact with the coffee surface. So you have to judge the right amount of coffee for the basket (different coffees will work with different amounts) on the basis of shot mechanics and flavor. I find that around 14-18 g is a good range to start dialing in.
Not sure why you were tamping for 30 seconds straight. That is the opposite of careless puck prep. Did you just proved that 30 second side-to-side is the king of tamping?
The final tamp was flat though. Try an uneven tamp and you will certainly get channeling. Also, just cause you didn't get it on those times doesn't mean that better puck prep doesn't mean to more consistency shot to shot.
The point of the video is not that puck prep is unnecessary but that a bit of a shake and an even tamp are enough. Pre-infusion probably also helps and darker roasted coffee too.
My guess is that two factors were even more important than the correct fill volume here: the pre-infusion which allows water to saturate the puck evenly and a relatively dark roast. Do this puck prep again with a light roast and hit the puck straight with 9 bar and you will see channelling despite having the correct fill volume. Personally, I have seen a huge change and improvement since I decreased the pressure on my linea micra to 7 bars. Unfortunately, I‘m not able to do mechanical pre-infusion anymore as I was able to do with the appartamento I had before. But coffee temperature is a lot more consistent and I will get a needle valve mod once the warranty runs out.
Can you explain how this would work with a cafelat robot where the portafilter and brew chamber are combined? What do you do with your robot? Is it possible to translate this to the robot? Thanks, and hope your health is doing well!
The puck in a Robot does not care about headspace because of the screen directly on the puck. All you need to care about is the puck’s thickness. Too thick or too thin and extraction won’t be ideal. Dial by taste and ignore the poor claims in this video.
The Robot is a different design, with the shower screen in contact with the coffee surface. So you have to judge the right amount of coffee for the basket (different coffees will work with different amounts) on the basis of shot mechanics and flavor. I find that around 14-18 g is a good range to start dialing in.
I'm all for progress but some of the recent content on the topic has been a bit over-the-top, lol. I'm still questioning if it's actual progress or just noise.
Not just noise. It’s actual sense finally starting to overcome myth and superstition in coffee. That good looking doesn’t equate to tasty or that channeling is only visually detectable in rare cases aren’t news. This has been preached for years in online circles for years and certain influencers just now start to repeat those findings.
@@bluemystic7501 If you have low standards or drink dark roasts, totally agree 👍 The fact that there are barely a handful of cafes around the entire world that serve world-class espresso consistently speaks for itself.
@@RegrinderAlert Do you think a $10/h employee cares that much about your drink? They don't, lol. So that's not a testament as to the difficulty of espresso.
@@bluemystic7501 We are talking about those who *do* care, not $10/h employees. The 99th percentile still isn’t great. And that’s not because of lack of skill or passion.
I definitely agree with your premise on the flawed arguments concerning puck prep and channeling, from everyone trying to sell you something. However, you're experimenting on fairly dark roasted coffee, which is much more forgiving. Also, your argument about headspace is a bit thin. In you experiments you explained what happens when you don't take into account the volume but you don't really explain why under-filling is not desirable.
Neither paper filters under the puck nor WDT tools nor shaking originated from a financial incentive. A perfect WDT tool costs literally less than a $1. Agree on your other remarks tho.
I’ve been telling people for a long time now about your volume, not weight video, as it has been amazing for me. Virtually no one is interested though sadly, and I’m not only talking about the wife. I really think it’s human nature to want to buy something to fix a problem. It isn’t a new thing either, people have been chasing snake oil/cure-alls for who knows how long. I’m not immune to it and I doubt anyone is.
Virtually everyone doses by volume but measures by weight. 18g looks underdosed? Up it a bit, etc. It’s absolute basics and claiming it’s often underlooked seems like a strawman.
It’s funny how this is clearly supposed to show "no channeling despite careless prep". And yet all shots looked pretty damn uneven, especially considering they had a pretty long preinfusion. You actually can’t see channeling most of the time and spritzing is only a sign of channeling in extreme cases. Same goes for holes or cracks. The top of the puck is the wrong place to look. But here it’s just huge bald spots hidden under all that gas of the dark roast. Reminds me of flat earth videos, really surreal. One shouldn’t make educational content without basic understanding.
Oh, god, is your "unevenness" the color / darkeness variations? Talk about a lack of basic understanding, lol. That's caused by fat separation and CO2 evolution, more common with darker/fresher coffees. Invisible channeling is a superstition. But do keep flexing with your Cliff's Notes grasp of things. You've almost learned how to sound like you know something.
@@wiredgourmet Did you even bother reading my comment? All I am saying is that you usually cannot spot channeling on a bottomless anyways - and if you can (and if you use a dark roast) it will look exactly like the shots you showed. Neither did I refer to the striping of color in your shots, just the “bald spot” making up almost quarter of the bottomless and its color underneath all that gas. Hilarious.
You didn't mention your roast. Perhaps try to change your beans to a light roast and reproduce the video. I imagine your results will be VERY different!
Mr Greene, i dont understand why you have struck a nerve with all these coffee nerds. Maybe its because they are so obsessed with marketing influencers like Pance Pedrick, Pyle Poswell just to name a few. Everyones setup is vastly different from one another. Coffee lovers have varying combinations of grinders, machines, wdt tools, and fresh - stale beans. There will never be a one size fits all. Coffee geeks should focus on common sense and their own taste buds. This does entail going down the rabbit hole a little, but please stop getting carried away. I love this channels anti-establishment attitude. It's a breath of fresh air especially with 99% of coffee youtubers pushing toys to sell. I mean really, how many times do we hear, "i recieved this for free, in exchange for an unbiased review. Blah blah blah. Tubers have to persuade and force toys down our throats so they can stay relevant and get free gadgeta too
My dear coffew nerd friend. Its npt believable that you yourself does not get free perks. Its part of the youtube business. By nature youtube is more persuasive than informative. Merely the equipment being reviewed has ramifications on watchers buying or selling. Look what happened with the weber shaker. Sold out online. People buying a.$100 toy that we both know could achieve with a significantly cheaper dosing cup. Not the straight wall cup like that of the Niche bit a bell bottomed dosing cup that comes from say Xeoleo. Focus should be directed towards local farmers/roasters. Its their pocket being squeezed tighter and tighter eapecially from 3rd world countries which a majority of coffee is from. Emphasize the best way to create stellar coffee without the need for an eg-1, saemo you, ek43s.
@ilkzode1822 you can choose to not believe me, but I Pay for everything. As of January this year I have made it to a place where I can. And I have. I also give everything away I got in the past for free and everything I buy, except for what I use daily. I do show how to make coffee without gadgets. If you aren't able to see that, you have serious comprehension issues. But I think you're just trolling. Or have too much time on your hands
Trolling hahahha. Such a silly word made up by silly genz/millennials. Ive read your butt hurt mesaage om reddit. Please continue your coffee journey. HAMES JOFFMAN reigns king 💔😘😘
@ilkzode1822 lol the insane double standard you have. James is free of critique. How convenient lol. Go on with your bad self and being weird with names.
I hate this video. After this video came out, my coffee increases to fill the portafilter from 9-10 grams to 14-15 grams, there was negative enhancement in taste with a HUGE increase in channeling..the taste went bad so much that i was contemplating giving up coffee. I use flair classic with df64 grinder. Today i found my old acupuncture needles and did proper wdt even at 10 grams and the channeling was very less, there was a better taste of the shot. Please dont peddle half truths
My fault! The Flair is mechanically different from E61 and E61-compatible ring and saturated groups. This video does not apply to your device or the Robot or the 9Barista, and I should have mentioned that in the vid. I'm only one guy: researcher, script writer, cameraman, and video editor. I don't have a team like some, so occasional oversights are inevitable. However, in its context, the video is quite sound, and the 'dose by volume' video is also sound, just not in your case. Sorry about that.
I have to say this is really an awful video. One grinder, one machine, Dark Roast, long preinfusion, tamping the heck out of the puck can not be seen as a general proof that puck prep is not necessary. Try again with a light roast and use the sculptor 78s for example, and I guarantee you will see massive channeling. The world is more than the small portion you see and face.
No coffee shop does WDT as far as I know, so this totally makes sense. A good tamping must be enough apparently
Ding!
coffee shop coffee is mostly terrible.
@@wiredgourmetI can give you one Coffee shop that does Wdt: Clove in Paris.
I used to grind directly into the filter and then do some WDT.
With my new grinder, I changed to grinding in a dosing cup (less messy).
I then put the filter on the dosing cup, turn them around, give them a bit of a shake (not much).
I then use a distributor give it a few swirls and a tamp.
Maybe I could skip the distributor but I kind of like the feeling of it and I think tamping directly might spill a few grounds (more mess).
I’ll give it a try without the distribution tool though, just out of curiosity.
@cicciobello8470
Here in the Netherlands, some specialty coffee bars do WDT but most of them don’t. My very rough guess would be 1 out of 3.
Keep in mind that SC bars are a small minority amongst general coffee bars.
Dark roast, high quality grinder, high quality espresso machine, level puck...
Though I agree with the sentiment that less can be more in espresso preparation, and that there is a lot of pseudoscientific claims in the space/maybe too much faff, I can’t help but note this argument that channeling is a myth is based on a flawed premise: that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence. So in this case, the fact that for you with your equipment that you don’t see visual spurting is the evidence that channeling doesn’t exist, but is that really true? Spurting from a piece of coffee plugging a hole on your basket like putting your thumb over a garden hose causing spraying isn’t necessarily channeling, it’s just random luck. Furthermore, I think you discount the puck prep that you did all the same. You distributed the grounds by shaking, tapped the portafilter down several times to settle the grounds, and you are using a medium to dark roast it seems, where the increased viscosity is just going to cover up a lot simply because of surface tension. You also do a long low flow pre infusion that also can help with channeling. So yes, I’m sure in your hands with all of these aids you might not observe a lot of visual spurting. But that doesn’t necessarily make an argument that channeling is made up. I could easily take my specialita at home (similar grinder to your libra), but just dump the grounds in, no shaking or tapping, tamp unlevel with a list to the right, and have a gusher of a shot only out of the right side of the portafilter. By this same logic would that prove channeling exists? I’m not saying you have to buy any gadgets to do puck prep. But if anything I think this video is more an argument that you can cover up a lot as long as you do some puck prep, like shaking to distribute, tapping to settle, and using headspace to your advantage, as I suspect a compressed puck with little headspace won’t have a lot of space to expand too much and have channeling go awry.
I don’t think his point was that channeling doesn’t exists but that not doing WDT nor using a distribution tool doesn’t necessarily lead to channeling.
That’s how I perceived it anyway.
He likes slow extractions. The last pull was 37s. That would require finding finer and wouldn’t that increase the risk on channeling? (I assume that he uses normal pressure of about 9 bar).
@@Conservator. I think I was going off of the last lines of the video where he says "there's no such thing as channeling", but hey, happy if @wiregourmet want's to correct me here if I was miss-interpreting! I will note his machine allows him to pre-infuse for a duration of time of his choosing (you can see him actuate the lever, pause and not lift it all the way up to let the puck gently expand under the pressure there but not actuate the 3 way solenoid that would unseat the puck , before he engages the pump to 9 bar, he talked about this technique he prefers in a prior video). This is conjecture on my part, but I suspect 37 second shot could have a similar grind size as a 27 second shot if you just add ~10 seconds of pre-infusion rather than engaging the pump immediately. Don't get me wrong I agree with a lot of what he says, you don't need fancy tools/to spend a lot of money to do home espresso, and if your coffee tastes good to you, then great that's the point! But much of the video imho maligns puck prep as useless BECAUSE he has found he doesn't need to use it using his gear, his beans, and his preferred style of espresso pull based on dosing by volume. That may be well and good for him, which is great, there's no problem with that! Not everyone want's their morning coffee with a side of faffery! But my argument is I also think he is doing a lot of things here to his advantage to make his point (using darker roasted beans, long pre-infusion, shaking the espresso grounds to distribute and then tapping to settle them, and ultimately though he jokes around with his prolonged tamp the final tamp is sufficiently level/hard). And I think if he did this with a few of those things left out (like with light roasted coffee, for example, and not doing any distribution whatsoever), he may not have as easy a time. I also don't don't know if everyone discussing coffee distribution is in it to make bunches of money. You can make a WDT tool with a used cork and needles, even if you buy accupuncture needles its a $5 investment, and I'm sure the accupuncture needle manufacturers of the world could care less about us coffee nerds let alone form a conspiracy to convince us to WDT just to sell more needles.
@@lbafro2011 just fyi The 37s did not include pre-infusion! He has mentioned on previous videos that he prefers long shots.
Yes, pre-infusion does help a lot (so I’ve heard) and darker roasted coffee is much easier to extract.
He does do some puck prep like you described. The shake and tapping.
My takeaway from the video is that minimal puck prep is sufficient to pull great shots.
Somehow many people feel the need to react to the suggestion that puck prep isn’t necessary. Well obviously it is, otherwise no coffee would end up in the filter😁 so it’s the amount of it that’s the point of the video imo.
My puck prep is more or less similar to his. I use fairly easy beans but I don’t (can’t) do pre-infusion and I’m able to pull consistently pretty good shots.
I agree with you on the WDT.
When using a very soluble coffee espresso is dead easy. As long as you use a good grinder and machine and suit your dose to the basket it’ll pull well. Most of the puck-prep these days is aimed squarely at mitigating the issues that arise when pulling very lightly roasted dense coffees. Nordic roasts are super hard to extract causing all kind of problems. With these coffees channeling definitely exists.
It would be very interesting if you were to redo this experiment with one of those coffees.
I agree, I would try to pull something very light. Channeling issues will show up.
Probably without pre infusion you would have channeling more often in your test shots
Agreed, also with a lighter roast.
I love your videos, but this one comes across as a little hand-wavey. Saying “forget all that nonsense” about puck prep and WDT isn’t especially convincing, when there is extensive evidence that some forms of puck prep improve extraction % a significant amount. And your proof? That you can pull “good looking” shots with a medium or (more likely) medium-dark roast bean. I’d love to buy into the idea that a bit of 2008 nutation tamping is all we need for good espresso, but I’m just not quite convinced. If the point of this video were that the supposed extraction gains from luck prep are overrated (or don’t produce better flavour), I might be on board.
Couldn’t agree more.👍🏻
Yes, those three shots absolutely full of channeling and looked quite horrible lol. I love your tongue and cheek approach. I have the Profitec Pro 600, along with the Mahlkonig GBW 65 grinder (Absolutely best ever, and no need for single dosing with perfect results every time) I also use a dynamometric tamper from Macap, which is normally expensive, but my Dad purchased it for me used on Ebay for about 25 Euros, and I could replace the head from an inexpensive tamper to match the 55.5mm, making the tamping as simple and perfectly levelled every time. People have taken the process of making coffee to extremes, and realistically keeping it simple without 25 extra steps yields the best results. Keep up the great work, Thomas. Cheers, Greg
I agree! Your video on headspace earlier finally fixed my espresso. I now use 15.5 to 15.8 grams in my 15 gram basket.
After I watched your video about using volume and not weight when preparing the coffee puck, things started to improve here. Using volume and not weight, my extractions improved a lot. Great video!! Thank you very much.
Since I did not have a scale when I started with espresso I adopted the "volumetric" style of grinding. Once I get the grind and amount dialed in I never saw the need for further refinement.
I've definitely seen channeling at home. It happens when I grind the coffee way too fine. It doesn't bore a hole through the puck though, it forces water all around the rim and lifts the puck up out of the basket, welding it to the shower screen when the pressure is released. The end result is a crap coffee that's both bitter and sour. The solution is to grind coarser and use a bit less coffee for more headspace, as you said!
Thanks for the no BS video yet again.
I do enjoy the ritual of making espresso.
We just got a Breville Oracle and the coffee out of that is far better than a the Rocket Giotto I had about 17 odd years ago. Either that or the beans have changed. I actually enjoy espresso out of my Oracle.
To test the beans changing I have brought some Illy coffee still in the can and I will see how that is compared to the local roasters. I might even to a video on it.
Thank you. This video was practically made for me, and my "goblins" are always "hob" in style.
Return of the king!!!
I will say that this is not necessarily true for all grinders. I have a great grinder, but in the long journey down the chute, large particles will settle to the bottom and end up in one side of the basket. Without WDT, it is a spraying, foul-tasting mess. I do not disagree with the conmcept of volume being the way to go, but I personally need WDT for my shots.
The headspace point is an interesting one. I watched your video on volume over mass with espresso, and it explained something about the default instructions for the Breville Barista Pro. There's no discussion of weight - it's grind into the portafilter, tamp with anywhere between 22 and 33 lbs of force, and use their "The Razor™️" tool to scrape off the extra and flatten the top of the puck. I'm guessing the engineers at Breville came to the same conclusion you did: ensuring proper headspace mattered more than the mass of the grinds. Perhaps they were right - despite trying WDT, a spring-loaded self-leveling tamper, and various other gadgets/tools/techniques, the approach Breville recommended focusing on get the right distance to the shower screen pretty much always came out best. That being said, I definitely had jets of espresso shooting out of my bottomless portafilter with some of the things I tried - I don't know if it was channeling, but it was definitely wrong 😅
Have you seen what they did with the impress puck system on the Express Impress and Touch Impress? It's basically a calibrated tamper with a sensor integrated into it which lives in the chute of the integrated grinder. You grind into the portafilter and pull the tamp handle down and if it needs more it will tell you and you just press the grind button to grind a little more, then tamp again and it will tell you when you have the ideal dose. So, Sage/Breville certainly don't seem to think that WDT is a necessary practice.
I'm not in the least bit surprised at these results. I always wondered why go through extra steps like distribution, shaking or using needles. They say that it improves extraction. I follow your philosophy on taste. I don't even use a funnel, just grind straight to the portafilter, use a force tamper, because I use the same specs every day and same coffee I have similar results like you've demonstrated on this video. I use a Profitec Pro 600, and Mahlkonig E65 GBW, best combo imaginable.
I use a flair 58, without shower screen and with the full volume of water put up on the puck screen before pressure is applied. Some coffees I can seem to dump tap and tamp. Some coffees (adjusting for dose) sprays, tastes bitter and sour simultaneously. And this is a crap shoot too some come out good and some make a mess and taste like one.
I think puck prep isn't important until it is. Light roast coffees, or hand grinders that jostle grounds before they're transferred into the basket. Poor quality grinders.
You're supposed to use the puck screen on the Flair 58 though, the water doesn't cover the bed evenly without it. You're basically removing an essential part of the machine and blaming everything else for not getting you good shots
I am using the puck screen.
Well I suppose that wasn't included in this video - I use a puck screen for everyshot. Still get visible and testable channeling under certain conditions.
Wired gourmet drinks dark roasts which will taste fine with awful prep. Light roasts don't do this.
That volume advice was a bit of a lightbulb moment. Thanks for this video, going to go watch your other one
Overall, I agree with this video, in that coffee being too high in the basket causes issues, especially if the grounds are prone to expansion.
Slightly too low does not matter to me cause I use a mesh screen resting on the coffee.
Also casual puck prep like in this video with grounds properly sized is just fine.
I do it all the time and the puck comes out perfect.
I would add that if the puck is not fully level, you will simply get a slightly uneven extraction that is irrelevant as long as you make sure that the puck is fully saturated before applying permanent high pressure. In this situation the tamping with circular rocking shown in this video actually helps to ensure all of the coffee is tamped.
When I was doing puck prep different ways, I found certain things could cause the puck to break down. One was large voids in the coffee from how the grounds were placed in the basket. Another was using a leveling tool that caused a shear line weakness that led to side channeling in the middle of the puck. Another was using a dirty WDT tool that grounds stuck to and the removal of said tool left significant tunnels in the coffee puck. Also if the grind had enough fines, doing something that migrated the fines to a pert of the puck caused issues. This could be side tapping moving the fines to the side, or excessive WDT which can migrate the fines to the bottom.
Sometimes simpler is better.
Priceless.
Thank you.
As a German I applaud the sarcasm. Very well done. OK.... Come tomorrow morning I will fill my portafilter with my coffee and no leveler, WDT and puck screen. Lets see. I will now watch your video on headspace.
Keep in mind he is doing a great job at pre-infusing the puck. I suspect that helps a ton.
@@c2329ra I have noticed. I don’t have such a fancy machine but I think I can do a pre infusion. Not as elegant though. 😬🤷♂️
@@c2329ra I found pre-infusion time to saturate the entire puck is key.
@@roncenti it is “just” an e61 with no functional/automated pre infusion. But he manages to keep pressure manually between 4 and 10 bars until 1 gram of liquid in cup.
@@c2329ra"just" is funny. I have "just" a Gaggia classic Pro. That is a different kind of "just". 😆 Yes that lever would be useful. One day... maybe.🤷♂
headspace is key :) hope you are doing well. glad to see the EK still running for you
How do you think a puck screen affects the need to adjust headspace? My intuition is that the puck screen works effectively as a secondary, perfectly matching shower screen, as the distance between the puck screen and coffee puck is zero. Intuitively, for me, the distance between the puck screen and the shower screen seems not to matter.
My experience is that there can’t be too much distance when using a puck screen. You’ll just end up with a bit of water on top of the puck screen after you’ve pulled a shot. No problem and works like a treat imo.
I feel like I'm watching the coffee equivalent of someone "prooving" to me that the earth is flat because their eyes can't see the curvature.
Feels more like someone proving that the earth is round by taking you space on the space shuttle.
I must confess that I have tried, twice. Huge mess on my machine and scale. There were squirts that reached the grinder. I don't think this works for my light beans or my sculptor 078s grinder.
On the plus side, the third shot, with a higher dose than I usually use and regular needle WDT was the best shot in weeks. I will revisit your video on dose.
I mostly agree but after making espresson for 10 years on the same grinder/machine my consistency improved quite a lot when a I got a scale and a wdt tool. neither are necessary though. I can easily fill my basket by eye but I can't grind by eye so the scale helps there for achieving the right volume
I appreciate you putting these videos out! I am only a few months old in making espresso for my wife and can use all the info you are willing to share in order to provide her with a good tasting cup. The sucky part is im not a coffee drinker and so im having a hard time understanding what I am putting out for her as far as taste and flavors go.
Love your videos! I’ve definitely experienced plenty of “channeling” which seems to have been resolved with some WDT? My counter top can vouch for me, but I’m definitely going to be doing some experimenting this weekend. Also, my shots have improved greatly after watching your video about ditching the flow control. Got rid of mine and am only sad I didn’t do it sooner! Thanks again! Love your channel (no pun intended).
I grind directly into a dosing cup. I then put the filter on the cup, turn them 180° and shake a few seconds to level the coffee.
After that I use a leveller and tamp. Maybe I could skip the leveller but I kind of like it.
I will give it a try though.
Just out of curiosity: How did your ‘experiment’ go?
Thanks!
It's just not the same without the Acid Trumpet in the background
A great breath of fresh air in the espresso community. Yet another emerald of a video, Mr. WG.
Great demonstration of all the puck prep voodoo stuff - the only thing I would consider between grinding directly into the portafilter (to avoid unnecessary contact with aggressive oxygen) is to slightly use a WDT-tool with .35-0.4 needles tomale the extraction more homogeneously
How do you apply this volumetric approach to something like the Cafelat Robot? I definitely get "bad pucks" with it, from time to time, and I'm not always sure why.
Using paper filters has definitely improved the consistency rate, but I've also noticed that it seems like tamping it down real hard (like the "30 lbs of pressure" received wisdom you always hear) increases my chance of getting a bad shot. Watching the shot in a mirror with a naked filter, it looks like maybe the water is going *around* the puck instead of through it. Certain dark roasts and high-robusta blends (like Vietnamese coffee) also seem more prone.
Great video. Thank you
Your pre-infusion makes a whole lot of difference. Also your coffee beans seem to be pretty good. Try some older / dryer beans of less quality and get something drinkable out of them. Channeling happens easily and hard. Your machine is also a factor not to be ignored. For a cheaper lower quality combo puck preparation makes a difference
Edit: Totally agree with your conclusion on what is important at the end
But CO2 bubbles hardly occur with older coffee beans (which most regular people use, knowing it or not)
I always have issues, flavor consistency wise, but I'm pretty certain it's because I have a stock Gaccia classic pro with awful temp control. How much improvement have I noticed with Puck prep? Not much. But upgrading the basket and trying to temp surf seemed to help the most. I'll install a PID one of these days.
Well, puck-prep is a requirement for consistency, so you are doing well I’d say. Without it it’d be harder to improve the shots by different means and almost impossible to dial by taste.
More! More!
We didn't always get what we want from our expresso.
you left out key information: what coffee are you drinking, roast level, is it a blend with robusta or arabica only, how long after roast do you drink (relevant to CO2 levels in the coffee that could damage the puck), have you ever tasted strong sourness and strong bitterness in any espresso you prepared, and if so, what did you do to fix it
To me this is a bit like making a video debunking range issues with electric vehicles but using a combustion engine. It misses the point entirely.
I missed the point? I said we can break the rules about always level tamping, and dispense with the expensive gimmicks, and still get a mechanically sound shot so long as we fill the basket correctly. Then I demonstrate doing exactly that. WTF are you going on about?
Don’t get me wrong, I love your channel and think you are one of the best coffee UA-camrs. But I think you got this one a bit wrong.
At 10:51 you state that espresso is easy if you understand it, channeling is a myth, and elaborate puck-prep is a superstitious ritual.
However for the testing you’re using a very soluble coffee that’s super easy to extract. Most of the coffee obsessed these days are using very lightly roasted, highly dense coffees that are very hard to extract. Elaborate puck-prep exists to mitigate the issues that arise when pulling these coffees specifically. You’re debunking the validity of this obsessive puck-prep while using the wrong kind of coffee, hence my EV vs combustion engine analogy. If you were to redo this experiment with a dense light roast and came to the same findings then great. But I’m guessing it would be an entirely different story.
Ok, but why do you think you know what coffee I'm using? You say it's a soft, low-density dark roast. Actually, it's a dense Ethiopian landrace grown at 1900-2400m. You can check the whole bean sample in the ramekin around 12 mins in. As you can see, the contrast between the silver skin and the bean surface is substantial, indicating a medium roast. There's no oil visible -- I roasted it well short of the start of second crack.
Keep in mind that it's impossible to judge actual color in a YT vid when there are so many variables involving camera white balance, and light temperature, and contrast, and editor adjustments, and codecs, and processing via YT, and monitor settings, and viewer ambient lighting...
Also, I don't know for a fact that the coffee I used is more or less prone to channeling than dark-roasted, low-altitude, commercial-grade Brazilian naturals. I'm not sure that's an established fact (seems more like an excuse, lol).
TBH, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that dark/soft coffee is prone to gum up the works and actually show some channeling, but I haven't tested it. As for light roasting, that's out for me: my water has absurdly low residual alkalinity & light roasts taste horrible, raw, flavorless, acidic (really, I don't know why people claim to like it, unless they have chalky water).
The difference between the roast development of the coffees I’m talking about is anything but subtle. On camera they will be bright orange.
These coffees are essentially Nordic roasts, a hot fast style of roasting that ends while the coffee is still in the first crack. Some can be dropped as low as 398° F (203°C) with a development percentage of around 10%. They are very hard to extract using the standard espresso method, that’s where turbo shots started as a way of getting more flow to achieve a higher extraction yield in a shorter amount of time to draw out subtle flavors and sweetness without ending up with lemon juice.
So much of the complicated puck-prep is centered around this style of espresso. WDT, RDT, blind-shakers, paper filters above and below the puck, puck screens, etc.
Espresso for me is all about solubility. The less soluble a coffee is the harder it is to extract. It’s that simple.
I can tell, not only by the color of the beans in your hopper and the grounds in your portafilter, but by the extraction itself that this is a very soluble coffee, even if it’s a high-grown Ethiopian.
I own and operate a roasting company in Nova Scotia, Canada and have been a professional roaster since 1997. So I’m well acquainted with both traditional and modern espresso. I teach people how to pull in all styles.
And again, I’m not a hater, your channel is one of the best. I purchased the new Vario Plus after seeing your tear-down video.
I just think making a blanket statements that espresso is easy if you match your dose volumetrically to your basket, channeling is a myth, and complicated puck-prep is nonsense, is going to confuse more people than help them.
That’s my two cents.
Hi Thomas......you still spend twice as long as I do on shot prep and it is many a year since I had a spritzer! Great video!
Spritzer I think handles a different issue: retention of grinds in the grinder due to static. I personally find that spritzing (my kitchen is somewhat low humidity, thus more static than a high humidity kitchen) helps a lot, in very noticeable ways. I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t physically see a difference.
I can help with doing things wrong if you want content on how not to do it :) I was promised everything will be solved if I get a proper grinder (instead of buying pre ground coffee like I had for years) So I bought one almost a year ago. Still not getting it right. Or to be honest I don't know anymore what "right" is supposed to look/taste like. I only drink cappuccino so...all shots taste bitter too me. I do get this super slow drip, then a flushing. Should mean that the ground is too fine. If I go up it flushes through very fast, so I should go down in grind size. I got a leveling tool instead of a tamper. How do I know that the tool is set right and doesn't press too hard/too loose? My puck is super soggy after extraction with pooled water and space along the edge. I'm using a 58mm basket with a 58.5mm leveling tool, eureka mignon grinder (set to under 1), dark roast, gaggia classic machine. Thankful for any hints. I've been doing this for almost 4 years and went to a barista class (unfortunately we didn't go through how to set a grinder and since I didn't have one at the time I didn't ask) Help
reddit makes this seem like this video is conspiracy, but has it always been like this in italy eh? This is crazy stuff after following a cult of wdt! i feel liberated! Your my new favorite espresso youtuber! Subscribed!!!!!
Wait till you hear how bad the coffee tastes in italy.
How about Flair 58 headspace? I guess its always "volumetricly" dialed in no matter how much coffee you use
Had me worried on the first one because i do that dumb routine and it turned out ok.
I guess i need to figure out how to get the right space..
Just use a puck screen and it won’t matter anymore (as long as there’s not too little space of course).
As someone who uses a cafelat robot, what sort of headspace would you recommend for that particular basket? Or are there different principles at work in that case.
Headspace is only half of the volume concern. A perfect headspace isn’t of much use if you use a basket that’s too big or too small. Because the puck will still be too thick or too thin for an even extraction.
In your case you don’t need to worry about headspace directly, just about your puck’s thickness.
The Robot is a different design, with the shower screen in contact with the coffee surface. So you have to judge the right amount of coffee for the basket (different coffees will work with different amounts) on the basis of shot mechanics and flavor. I find that around 14-18 g is a good range to start dialing in.
Not sure why you were tamping for 30 seconds straight. That is the opposite of careless puck prep. Did you just proved that 30 second side-to-side is the king of tamping?
interesting hypothesis, thanks for adding another 30s to my morning routine 😭
Heh, no, just trying to illustrate a point by beating it up, doing everything you're told not to do, in spades.
"... man with refractometer and a dog’s palette." 🤣 Good one!
The final tamp was flat though. Try an uneven tamp and you will certainly get channeling. Also, just cause you didn't get it on those times doesn't mean that better puck prep doesn't mean to more consistency shot to shot.
The point of the video is not that puck prep is unnecessary but that a bit of a shake and an even tamp are enough.
Pre-infusion probably also helps and darker roasted coffee too.
how on earth did you spot the "channeling" that old video?
Rocking the boat again, great content
My guess is that two factors were even more important than the correct fill volume here: the pre-infusion which allows water to saturate the puck evenly and a relatively dark roast. Do this puck prep again with a light roast and hit the puck straight with 9 bar and you will see channelling despite having the correct fill volume.
Personally, I have seen a huge change and improvement since I decreased the pressure on my linea micra to 7 bars. Unfortunately, I‘m not able to do mechanical pre-infusion anymore as I was able to do with the appartamento I had before. But coffee temperature is a lot more consistent and I will get a needle valve mod once the warranty runs out.
Can you explain how this would work with a cafelat robot where the portafilter and brew chamber are combined? What do you do with your robot? Is it possible to translate this to the robot? Thanks, and hope your health is doing well!
The puck in a Robot does not care about headspace because of the screen directly on the puck.
All you need to care about is the puck’s thickness. Too thick or too thin and extraction won’t be ideal. Dial by taste and ignore the poor claims in this video.
The Robot is a different design, with the shower screen in contact with the coffee surface. So you have to judge the right amount of coffee for the basket (different coffees will work with different amounts) on the basis of shot mechanics and flavor. I find that around 14-18 g is a good range to start dialing in.
I ove your videos! Do you review coffee grinders?
Only match the volume of coffee to the size of basket, and the amount of headspace is all that matters?? Wow...
Why mine is spraying all over the place? Is it the same reason?
I'm all for progress but some of the recent content on the topic has been a bit over-the-top, lol. I'm still questioning if it's actual progress or just noise.
Not just noise. It’s actual sense finally starting to overcome myth and superstition in coffee. That good looking doesn’t equate to tasty or that channeling is only visually detectable in rare cases aren’t news. This has been preached for years in online circles for years and certain influencers just now start to repeat those findings.
@@RegrinderAlert Espresso is easy 🤷♂
@@bluemystic7501 If you have low standards or drink dark roasts, totally agree 👍 The fact that there are barely a handful of cafes around the entire world that serve world-class espresso consistently speaks for itself.
@@RegrinderAlert Do you think a $10/h employee cares that much about your drink? They don't, lol. So that's not a testament as to the difficulty of espresso.
@@bluemystic7501 We are talking about those who *do* care, not $10/h employees. The 99th percentile still isn’t great. And that’s not because of lack of skill or passion.
You should try again but completely caveman it, dump the grounds in, no funnel, don't shake or tap them at all
I really like this idea. Find out just how much we can get away with.
Oh, The Humanity!
Genius ! Thank you ! You do a great service for us sir 👏
I definitely agree with your premise on the flawed arguments concerning puck prep and channeling, from everyone trying to sell you something. However, you're experimenting on fairly dark roasted coffee, which is much more forgiving. Also, your argument about headspace is a bit thin. In you experiments you explained what happens when you don't take into account the volume but you don't really explain why under-filling is not desirable.
Neither paper filters under the puck nor WDT tools nor shaking originated from a financial incentive. A perfect WDT tool costs literally less than a $1. Agree on your other remarks tho.
I’ve been telling people for a long time now about your volume, not weight video, as it has been amazing for me. Virtually no one is interested though sadly, and I’m not only talking about the wife.
I really think it’s human nature to want to buy something to fix a problem. It isn’t a new thing either, people have been chasing snake oil/cure-alls for who knows how long. I’m not immune to it and I doubt anyone is.
Virtually everyone doses by volume but measures by weight. 18g looks underdosed? Up it a bit, etc.
It’s absolute basics and claiming it’s often underlooked seems like a strawman.
Some pre-infusion and dark roast. Won't work across all coffees.
Don’t you use puck screens anymore?
Can we get more content involving the pretty lady at the end?
Bravo, spot on. Thanks for demonstrating that a simple recipe does the trick!
Supererb video beyond measure, greatly appreciate your truth and integrity.
This is the video UA-cam needed. Hopefully this reaches far and wide
Thank you. I'm all for tested proven processes, but some of the stuff out there is way up its own ass.
Maybe the message here is meant to be a little more idealistic than literal.
Excellent video, thanks for the work on this.
hahahaha spot on! You're going to move the hornet's nest, several coffee lovers and pseudo scientists are going to be very upset hahahaha, I love it.
Best video
It’s funny how this is clearly supposed to show "no channeling despite careless prep".
And yet all shots looked pretty damn uneven, especially considering they had a pretty long preinfusion.
You actually can’t see channeling most of the time and spritzing is only a sign of channeling in extreme cases. Same goes for holes or cracks. The top of the puck is the wrong place to look.
But here it’s just huge bald spots hidden under all that gas of the dark roast.
Reminds me of flat earth videos, really surreal. One shouldn’t make educational content without basic understanding.
Oh, god, is your "unevenness" the color / darkeness variations? Talk about a lack of basic understanding, lol. That's caused by fat separation and CO2 evolution, more common with darker/fresher coffees. Invisible channeling is a superstition. But do keep flexing with your Cliff's Notes grasp of things. You've almost learned how to sound like you know something.
@@wiredgourmet Did you even bother reading my comment? All I am saying is that you usually cannot spot channeling on a bottomless anyways - and if you can (and if you use a dark roast) it will look exactly like the shots you showed. Neither did I refer to the striping of color in your shots, just the “bald spot” making up almost quarter of the bottomless and its color underneath all that gas. Hilarious.
You didn't mention your roast. Perhaps try to change your beans to a light roast and reproduce the video. I imagine your results will be VERY different!
Mr Greene, i dont understand why you have struck a nerve with all these coffee nerds. Maybe its because they are so obsessed with marketing influencers like Pance Pedrick, Pyle Poswell just to name a few. Everyones setup is vastly different from one another. Coffee lovers have varying combinations of grinders, machines, wdt tools, and fresh - stale beans. There will never be a one size fits all. Coffee geeks should focus on common sense and their own taste buds. This does entail going down the rabbit hole a little, but please stop getting carried away. I love this channels anti-establishment attitude. It's a breath of fresh air especially with 99% of coffee youtubers pushing toys to sell. I mean really, how many times do we hear, "i recieved this for free, in exchange for an unbiased review. Blah blah blah. Tubers have to persuade and force toys down our throats so they can stay relevant and get free gadgeta too
I don't get free gadgets, ya do do head. But yes, everyone do what tastes good
My dear coffew nerd friend. Its npt believable that you yourself does not get free perks. Its part of the youtube business. By nature youtube is more persuasive than informative. Merely the equipment being reviewed has ramifications on watchers buying or selling. Look what happened with the weber shaker. Sold out online. People buying a.$100 toy that we both know could achieve with a significantly cheaper dosing cup. Not the straight wall cup like that of the Niche bit a bell bottomed dosing cup that comes from say Xeoleo. Focus should be directed towards local farmers/roasters. Its their pocket being squeezed tighter and tighter eapecially from 3rd world countries which a majority of coffee is from. Emphasize the best way to create stellar coffee without the need for an eg-1, saemo you, ek43s.
@ilkzode1822 you can choose to not believe me, but I Pay for everything. As of January this year I have made it to a place where I can. And I have. I also give everything away I got in the past for free and everything I buy, except for what I use daily.
I do show how to make coffee without gadgets. If you aren't able to see that, you have serious comprehension issues. But I think you're just trolling. Or have too much time on your hands
Trolling hahahha. Such a silly word made up by silly genz/millennials. Ive read your butt hurt mesaage om reddit. Please continue your coffee journey. HAMES JOFFMAN reigns king 💔😘😘
@ilkzode1822 lol the insane double standard you have. James is free of critique. How convenient lol. Go on with your bad self and being weird with names.
I hate this video. After this video came out, my coffee increases to fill the portafilter from 9-10 grams to 14-15 grams, there was negative enhancement in taste with a HUGE increase in channeling..the taste went bad so much that i was contemplating giving up coffee. I use flair classic with df64 grinder. Today i found my old acupuncture needles and did proper wdt even at 10 grams and the channeling was very less, there was a better taste of the shot. Please dont peddle half truths
My fault! The Flair is mechanically different from E61 and E61-compatible ring and saturated groups. This video does not apply to your device or the Robot or the 9Barista, and I should have mentioned that in the vid. I'm only one guy: researcher, script writer, cameraman, and video editor. I don't have a team like some, so occasional oversights are inevitable. However, in its context, the video is quite sound, and the 'dose by volume' video is also sound, just not in your case. Sorry about that.
I have to say this is really an awful video. One grinder, one machine, Dark Roast, long preinfusion, tamping the heck out of the puck can not be seen as a general proof that puck prep is not necessary. Try again with a light roast and use the sculptor 78s for example, and I guarantee you will see massive channeling. The world is more than the small portion you see and face.