I found it wild that there were Esports setups in the back, but the matches were played on a living room TV and Ikea chairs. FGC never gets any respect. lmao
Man I was so confused. They showed off the nice stations for each team and each seat had all of their names on it and arranged in a cool way and I thought this was gonna be sick........and then they all walk over to a tiny living room setup to actually play. Like, why??
@@branmuffin42 I came in right before grand finals, since I didn't realize it was the day of the Slam, and was so confused why they were playing in front of those setups. I thought maybe they played on them earlier and I just missed it, but nope…
I definitely thought something was up when watching it live since Sykkuno and Eskay were consistently dropping combos and not reacting to DI. Sucks they weren’t able to show off all their hard work.
Yeah that's the worst of it. Someone always has to lose, but not even being able to show what you practiced, win or lose, really fucking sucks. It's insane to host any kind of gaming tournament on a fucking giant ass TV lol.
@@VidyadudeIn this case, it’s because Twitchcon is just evil. I’m sure that sounds like an exaggeration, but they literally fucked up a foam pit so bad a couple years ago that a girl who dove into it (AFTER THEY SAID IT WAS SAFE) ended up paralyzed, and they tried to deny even paying her medical bills. Agreeing to host a fighting game event then ruining it for no reason is actually pretty light on the sliding scale of reasons Twitchcon is horrible.
This is not the first time Sykkuno lost a tournament due to technical problems like that otk valo tournament with the bad ping. That ruined valo for him for a long time and this will probably ruin fighting games for him for a while too. We can all agree we rather lose to someone better than lose because of a bad controller glitch.
Yeah I still remember that. It ruined valo for him and Miyoung for a long time and he never wanted to touch that game again. I'm guessing with him having this love/hate for SF6 during the whole Sajam Slam grind, this is the icing on the cake for him to never touch SF6 again.
Although Syk is a chill person, he's very competitive and puts in a lot of hours into training, so losing because of technical issues is definitely disheartening and demotivating
that's unfortunate, watching Sykkuno's match, i though he was panicking the entire time since he seems to be mashing button, which is very rare of him to do. But with this cleared up, that makes sense. Also playing with lag against a modern Blanka is pretty much almost impossible to win anyway.
@@RandomGuyCDN Imagine getting matched up with people double your LP. Everything was kind of rigged against him from the very start but he still didn't quit the tournament. Their whole team knows it but not one complained because they're good sports. So f*** you for disrespecting a great guy.
@@NephetssingsEsfand trained on his alt channel until his wrist was fucked because training on his main channel meant that he would ruin his CCV average while getting backseated by mouthbreathers like yourself.
Large TVs not on game mode are genuinely THE WORST way to play any game let alone a reactionary competitive one. Actually insane they didn’t think about it at all. FGC stays being disrespected for real
I wonder why not just let them play on a computer and let those screen grabbed/mirrored on another comp to mirror on the TV. You know, like normal people in 2024.
Just get a splitter for goodness sakes. One line goes to a smaller monitor for the players, the other line goes to a big screen for the audience. C'mon Twitch, that's rookie stuff.
That's not even rookie. That's like a level beyond that. Even boomers or people who lived in the 90s know how to do that. (Because that was how it was set up even back then)
To put this into context for everyone, there is a 4 frame buffer window for inputs. There are moves that are 1 frame links and some that can be up to 15 frames. MAXIMUM amount of time for someone to cancel into a move is about 19 frames. When they say there's a 1 second delay on the monitor, know that frame data is based on 60 frames per second. So imagine trying to hit that AT MOST 15 frame window when there's 60 frames of lag. That's why that setup was absolute poopoocaca.
@@Nostalgiaforinfi There’s a reason I mentioned the input buffer window. Unlike in SF4 where there were true 1 frame links in SF6 the 1 frame links have a 4 frame buffer window, making it longer. I get how me mentioning 1 frame links can be confusing in this context though.
@@SinkToTheBeat89Mentioning 1 frame links is irrelevant here because the game does not have 1 frame links. A 4 frame buffer window means that by definition there are at lowest 5 frame links
@@alondjeckto Actually a 1 frame link is where the following move in a combo has a startup equal to the advantage of the previous button's frame advantage. As frame data provided doesn't account for the leniency window, on paper it is still a 1 frame link. The window for hitting it however is actually 9 frames because its 4 frames before and 4 frames after. While it is extremely impressive that in an era before the input buffer people hit 1 frame links, that doesn't stop 1 frame links from existing within the data of the game system even if technically in action they are not needed to be executed frame perfectly. I hope this helps you to understand why I framed my information the way that I did, since as I stated previous I understand how it can be confusing in its context.
Damn. This Slam was both one of the best and worst. The teams really felt like a team with how the couches were and the creators interacted with each other. But Twitch’s and Capcom’s involvement definitely worsened it. The need to have a price pool no longer made this a purely fun event (as heard from some players like Dokibird who said as they played and practiced more, there was more unconscious pressure). And Twitch’s live matches and set up weren’t good either. Even if the set ups were adequate, the need for in person match excludes the vtubers. Perhaps a closed doors event would have been better, but most would just prefer online. Sucks cause this could have been the best slam with how much development occurred in the short time people had hands on the game
I 100% love that sajam is getting these sort of collabs, but twitch and capcom really showed themselves to be very disappointing companies. Hope he never works with them again. I think a slam at evo would be sick tho.
@@RazielReavercan I ask what about these comments are wrong? I agree not working with twitch or capcom anymore is a bit much but besides that they're spitting
I think the vtuber thing is more nuanced than them being excluded over an in-person finals. They chose to compete knowing the finals would be at Twitch Con, and were fine with having their role filled by people more comfortable with showing their faces. This goes even more for Victoria, who is likely contractually obligated not to reveal her face. I'm not throwing shade at any content creator that hides their face or identity. It's just that in the world of content creation, choosing anonymity over these kinds of in-person events is still a choice.
Its pretty much impossible to react to Blanka and Luke's sand blasts with a full second of input lag. It's unfortunate that their match ups put them into a situation where the input lag was more disadvantageous to them than team JB. All in all, I'm more frustrated that we couldn't see them play at their best since all 4 of them have improved a lot as players.
Before sykunnos match i thought he should win. And I said eskay should be fine. But when they played... how do i explain it... it felt like they were playing very auto piloty and couldn't react. At first I thought it could be nerves. But now that I'm hearing what happened I'm thinking "OH duh, they were playing like hey had lag issues. Why didn't I put it together?"
They should've just kept the entire thing online. Brian had to clutch an insane set just to keep his team in the bracket and all the momentum was lost cause they had to wait for TwitchCon
If it was online the prize pool wouldnt have been as big as it was since capcom and twitch approached him about it. so it was either this or online and a garbo prize pool. They just need to do better at checking this shit at talent rehearsals
@@RandomGuyCDN The last two slams had okay prize pools but were plenty good. Many people loved being in it and was more than happy to play for fun and a controller (and an evo trip) than 50k
@@RandomGuyCDNThere shouldn't have even been a prize pool at all. It puts a lot of stress on something that should just be a for fun event for streamers to connect and grow their audience. I know Doki joined before they said there was a prize pool, and after it was announced she enjoyed it a lot less than the tekken slam.
I understand Twitch staff not knowing how to setup FGC but this is Sajam's event and he/his team not double checking the stage setups beforehand is kinda crazy....😒
@@zm6rnachrnauI think this is the first time their tournament does the TV setup. All the previous ones including toast's chipotle Tekken tour uses PC monitor setup even on Lan/local. It's an oversight, which is mostly understandable. Plus the first match are with players who probably aren't aware the TV delay frame is huge for fighting game.
@@HolyRain89 It's not on the players to know if their setup is not correct LMAO what?? The players are participants. They come in expecting it's already setup correctly. Yall wouldn't be saying the same thing if Riot fuked up a VCT finals match with their PCs and say that's on the player for not knowing like ??🙃😂 This is Sajam's event. He holds an equal responsibility, next to Twitch, for not double checking the equipment on a tournament. There also wasn't any re-matches after knowing that there was a technical difficulty on the stage setups which should've automatically nulled and void the first two matches of Sykkuno and Eskay's. Literally the entire finals matchup and event winner could've been different, if it weren't for that "oversight" so how can you say it's understandable ?
The only reason the prize pool was as big as it was, was because twitch and capcom put money into it to be played at twitch con. Sajam himself even said he didnt plan on doing another one until those 2 companies approached him about it. Im surprised Sajam and the rehearsal crew didnt test the set up out when they were doing rehearsals on thursday or friday.
Its a fucked up situation, because both sykkuno AND Eskay were kicking ass OFF camera on monitors. Sykkuno was easily winning off lily during practice matches and Eskay beat ultima in their runback like 9-1.
It's unfortunate that the ones setting up weren't knowledgeable enough to set up a fighting game setup. Thank goodness Esfand stepped up to fix the lag problem.
This is just basic tech knowledge. Make sure the display can run at a certain HZ you want and is setup to do so. And ensure the video/audio cable supports the desired FPS and resolution.
@@blunderswish7121no.. neither the of the tv hz nor cables were the problem lol. Giant TVs just have a ton of processing lag unless they are made specifically for low input lag, which is expensive and not common when compared to a benq with sub 10ms input lag.
@@midwestmeta8802 You can get faster response TVs that size, they just went cheap. That 60" TV was probably the same price as a 32" IPS 1ms delay monitor (which they should have just used and split the hdmi feed to the larger TV for spectators)
Pretty wild to think twitchcon setups are not tested prior to matches starting. That's understandable at some first time small local, but not at the largest streaming platform's event.
It's a real shame. The whole training arc with Brian was great, despite being one of the more technical players who loves the nitty and gritty of these games, he's great not only at meeting newcomers where they are, but also helping them grow at their own pace. I was looking forward to see the team's hard work, such a bummer of an ending... I hope they get another chance eventually.
I was surprised and thought Sykkuno was defending the opponent's team. I searched and saw that Sykkuno was subbing in for Doki. From being giefd to being a sub by the gief, that's something I never expected.
This, though i feel that Sajam should have at least provided them with this knowledge. FGC is used to running events on 60hz monitors, but recently with sf6 and ps5, the frequency can go as high as 144 Hz
It’s not that they don’t know, it’s that they don’t care. They got publicity and money, that’s all they care about. Twitchcon specifically has a history of doing really obviously stupid things with callous disregard for the consequences, just because it seems convenient in the short term.
There were multiple points in which this could be prevented. From the venue level, to the TO level, to the player level. It just so happens to be at twitch con, a non fgc venue, with Sajam, who normally doesn't TO, with first match being Sykunno and Eskay, both who never attended a local. So it's just an unfortunate event. But this is a good lesson for Sajam and should be corrected for next event. In person event should be the way to go, as that's how fighting games tournaments should be held.
Nah, I'd say 80% of my enjoyment of the slams came from watching the different teams' pov's and their inside jokes/mid game coaching/chemistry/seeing people improve. I'd much rather watch the finals online where all the competitors can attend, and there aren't any random variables like a TV being set up wrong cause apparently no one decided to check up on it beforehand.
@@reknemite Online connection is a bigger variable than someone forgetting to test a set up. These events are so much better in person. They just need a checklist and should add a full streaming set up for each team there if content creator based.
How does shit like this still happen in 2024? Do people that organize gaming events literally how no clue about how monitors work? If so then why are they in charge of organising a gaming event? Literally no professional game is played on a huge TV, maybe you would consider that there's a reason for that. Very disappointing. I am also surprised that no one spoke up... if i was in the vicinity of that going down i would say something... "Hey guys.... you know that playing on a monitor with a second of input delay is not a very good idea for a game where reaction speed is a factor".
@@henryludvor6275 when they were practicing they got to play on proper setups so it would only make sense for him to assume that theyd get to play on setups like that IF they didnt inform him about the whole tv setup (and considering what brian_f said it does seem like he didnt get informed in the slightest) so i dont see how its his fault
@@lolpop7799 He's the event organizer, of course it's his fault. What event lead doesn't know which setup is going to be played at the finals? This is not something you find out last minute. This is simple due diligence. When $50k is on the line, you best not "assume" anything.
Why? This fuck up is majorly on him. If twitch were to present me with a setup like this to play MY finals on, I would be protesting LOUD AND HARD. This setup is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE for any competitive tournament standard and is disrespectful to the players involved.
@@Jp63a Still unacceptable. Not knowing which setup the finals are going to be played is straight up negligence. Once you found out that it was on the bad TV, then I would have done everything in my power to rectify this. Should twitch still refuse and want to run things their way, at the very least I'd be informing players that they'll be playing in sub-optimal conditions. The fact that players found out mid-tournament and settings had to be changed is a disgrace. Even after, I would have stopped the tournament and demanded the setup be switched to something the players are used to, but still this wasnt done. This is just a series of bad choices that snowballed into a poor experience for literally everyone.
Man Sajam really dropped the ball on that one.If Esfan didn't step up can you imagine the rest of the matches, not to mention it shouldn't be played on a TV to begin with
"I KNOW Sajam would have never let this happen if he had any say." What do you mean if? You do know what the event is called right? $5 says Sajam didn't want to take a loss twice so he made concessions by allowing things he shouldn't have to keep the twitch cash flowing.
@@tfk2328 How is this any different. He is responsible for the upkeep of the tournament and should have had the stream setup tested and made sure it adhered with FGC tournament standards. This event even had his name plastered all over and even CAPCOM THEMSELVES have promoted it. This has left an incredibly sour taste in my mouth. Sajam dropped the ball HARD and needs to be held accountable for these mistakes. Personally I never want to see him host an event in this scale ever again.
@@henryludvor6275 Too bad for you He'll still keep doing these because people still enjoy them overall. He should've verified and not let non fgc people set up the venues yeah big mistake on him too. But quit overreacting like he couldn't adjust for the next one. The first two tekken slams were great, the beat a pro event was great, and the online part of the sf6 was great. I'm sour too because I'm rooting for this team, brawlpro and brianF. They shouldn't have went twitchcon halfway through the finals or even at all.
Game streaming platform has no idea how to set up games to be played. I figured when twitch was put in the charge of the finals, they'd fuck something up. Its in their nature
Doesn't matter if twitch is in charge, SAJAM should be the one fighting for optimal setups. As someone who has advocated for rollback netcode in the past, I'm shocked, appalled, and incredibly disappointed that he was unable to ensure that the players played under the standards of the FGC. I expect much more from one of the "Community Leaders" and would strongly caution against him hosing another one.
@@henryludvor6275 You don't have to be so dramatic to what could be rectified with a checklist, but I agree this was his responsibility. Growing pains are like that though, if he did this again and didn't learn from his mistake then I'll be right there with you.
"Game streaming platform has no idea how to set up games to be played." No. Tournament organizer whose name is part of the event title either: A) Never checks the main setup for months from the time of event planning/booking to the day of the event. B) Knows but lets it slide the whole time thinking it wouldn't be as bad as it was and therefore failing to do due diligence on his own event. You pick because there is no C and both options are still his event, his fault. There were esport setups available. The TV was a decision he ultimately knew about one way or another well before the day of the event. To suggest anything else is basically insinuating that Sajam sold his name to twitch and has nothing to do with the event. Which if true would make him an actual corporate sellout and be absolutely hilarious.
@@Heowolf Absolutely not. Sajam is a pillar of the FGC and as such I would expect him to know and adhere to the standards of other tournaments. Personally, I think anything less than a 144Hz lag free monitor is unacceptable and is completely disrespectful to all the players involved. Is it because they're not pros and cannot decipher the difference? You can't tell me he won't have the budget for either its fucking TwitchCon! If this were some random event run by some newbie TO affiliated with twitch, then I could give some leeway here, but this is SAJAM we are talking about here. He is the last person I'd expect to fuck up so royally here and as such has completely lost my trust in running an event like this again.
Oh this sucks, shame Eskay didn't complain immediately during the fight :c Technically this affects both players, but on Modern with autocombos they're not liable to drop combos
I think twitch's involvement in pulling the event as a twitch con thing had a lot to do with what was bad about this finals. There was some mindless moments on production too. I was surprised during one said moment the chat didn't go full scum of the earth mode. Rare twitch chat respect. Still I think production should have noticed and swapped cameras during that moment instead of letting it linger for like over a minute. Just seems so unfortunate compared to the energy and fun that was the Tekken slams.
Esports. This has been a decade long issue for fighting games. At least they get paid but this is just super annoying going to events you fly out to just to eat the laggy setup combo and then if you complain then you get roasted online. Just sucks.
Wouldn’t be surprised that if this offer comes up again, either Sajam and the TO’s double check equipment specifications, or they never do this again at all. TwitchCon dropped the ball hard on this event.
I'd be annoyed if the Hz on the monitors is anything less than 144. The fact that they played on a 60 inch giant TV not on game mode would make me livid. I'd have paused the match at the first second.
Was Sajam the TO of this? If so, I find it extremely surprising he’d allow something like this to happen. He’s been apart of the FGC for a very long time and he has a great work ethic and is a great dude. So I wonder how this happened… 🤔
I play on a low latency , 360hz monitor, id say 99% of the time.. i have a 60+" TV that has a "low latency" mode that I have to put it in, but i never notice a difference. Now, I have played on TVs in hotel rooms that have been real bad. Im assuming this was a latency issue?
@@yano4473 Thanks there, Captain Obvious. Simply stating that I've used all the extremes and if you have a low latency tv/monitor, the nuance is not going to make or break someone's ability to stop gimmicks (as discussed in this video). On the flip side, a TV with your typical latency will be a noticeable difference. In short, you can't just look at a TV and assume that the hardware is going to make it unplayable. There are plenty of low latency big ass tvs with high refresh rates.
To make this make slightly more sense: ~16ms = 1 frame @ 60 fps ~960ms = 1 second @ 60 fps Avg human reaction time = ~200ms (usually better if you're a competitor but it's variable) They went cheap on the TV I'm assuming. Bigger TVs will take longer to present an image on average though. The TV they used is probably anywhere between 8x and 40x (8-40ms delay) slower to present an image than those monitors in GAMING mode, the first two sets being in MOVIE mode makes the delay up to 5x(40-200ms delay) that due to the TV processing the image more for quality than speed. Competitors want the fastest time available, they were surrounded with competitive monitors that are all probably 1ms delay (this is the standard for competitive) which makes this even more frustrating. Ideally you want 144hz, IPS and 1ms delay
@@cjwerner2747 Gaming mode definitely helps, but I can't definitively tell you if it will fully fix your latency. Look up your TVs technical info via it's model # (usually on the back) if you want specifics. Look for "response time/rate" or "delay" - they are the same thing just diff companies might switch it up. Most likely it will show the fastest the TV can offer there, which would be in gaming mode.
Not gonna lie, I could see this happening. The players played for a $50k pot and at least two of the matches were under unplayable conditions. Heck, I would say the entire tournament was suboptimal since it was not run on a 144Hz lag free monitor. Completely unacceptable.
A low input lag display is literally the ONLY accommodation that a fighting game tournament would need, but twitch and capcom said “nah I’d ruin the event”
I love the irony of Brian having the generally better players and LOSING as a result of that. It's insane how high level players struggle more from technical problems
bad for the organization more in the tech part and less on the marketing bs , you have to give the 0 ms delay hardware shit and let then know before the tourney
Modern TVs are unacceptable by FGC standards. Anything less than a 144Hz monitor would be unacceptable given the size and budget of the event. This is entirely on Sajam.
@@henryludvor6275 most modern fighting games still run on 60 fps, regardless the only relevant metric is the response time. The likelihood of sajam, a long time FGC member made that decision is low.
@@sean2sheen My issue isn't that Sajam made the decision to have them play on the bad TV. It's the fact that the decision to play on that happened under Sajam's watch in the first place. He's a pillar of the FGC, make no mistake. He knows that games like SF6 need to be played under the least latency as possible, but he completely failed in ensuring that it was the case. As a player and community figure, the things he has done is great, but blunders like this is exactly why i no longer have confidence in him as an event organizer. That's all.
@@primedember5249 If you a large scale event of any kind for large amounts of money and things get "out of control" then, for the most part, you are just a bad event organizer. This isn't even a case where solutions weren't nearby as they were LITERALLY playing on setups that were fine before the actual tournament.
Who's idea was it to play on a big TV with terrible delay?? It makes quite a difference playing on low input lag to a FULL SECOND of input lag. It's basically unplayable at that point if you're use to low input lag. Shame.
Who's idea is kind of irrelevant, the real factor is SAJAM allowing them to play on such an unoptimal setup. You'd think a pillar of the community would have had everything tested, their I's dotted and T's crossed. But this is clearly not the case. He has lost my trust, and I would caution the next event should be run under more competent leadership.
Not playing on proper setups aka monitors with no lag is impossible to play properly. All they had to do was project it to the big screen. Very disappointing to hear this as a FG player.
Pretty sure he books a timeslot way in advance and coordinates the bracket and event, but Twitch-con staff is in charge of the setups. That said if the setups that flanked the stage just didn't have SF6 or the set-up wasn't designed for 3rd party spectators, that is partly Sajam's fault if that was overlooked. If they couldn't have them installed or w/e the reason, than that's just unfortunate but not on Sajam specifically
@@adambeck427 The PC set ups had SF6. if you turned into a few of the players streams while the TC finals were going on they were either keeping warm or labbing things out on those setups
@@adambeck427yeah, not totally his fault. You just can’t micro manage like that in events like this and that’s a risk if you take these bigger deals. I honestly hope/think that Sajam will take some lessons from this and won’t try to split Slams like this in the future. Even if it means less prize support. And hopefully collaborates more with events that have more experience running fighting games.
@@hunterdavis9941 I don't think that needs to be the take away here. There's 3 things that should be the main takeaway: Don't use TVs. Test your set up. Test your controllers. There were multiple points in which this could be prevented. From the venue level, to the TO level, to the player level. It just so happens to be at twitch con, a non fgc venue, with Sajam, who normally doesn't TO, with first match being Sykunno and Eskay, both who never attended a local
twitch and capcom probably handled it and sajam probably didn't get much of a say. he's not exactly huge enough to make them alter their set up or schedule or whatever for something as big as twitch con.
I have somewhat limited understanding on it, but TVs and monitors have input delay, the time between when you press a button and it happening on screen. PC monitors tend to have the lowest input delay, which is why you often see tournaments being played on monitors. I don't know what TV they were using, but here's an example. New Samsung 55" TV @ 1080p has 10.1ms input delay IN game mode, OUT of game mode, it's 83.8ms 1 frame at 60fps I think is approx 16ms, so an extra 73.8ms is 4 frames additional of input delay. And that's assuming they don't have it passing through anything else before the TV, which would probably add even more. EVO this year I think was played on Sony Inzone monitors with 4.6ms of input delay. It seems like a tiny difference, but those extra 4 frames can make it extremely difficult to react to things in both offence and defence. You land that standing medium? Normally you can confirm into another hit, but with those extra 4-5 frames that window closes early. So for the 1st 2 matches to be played in movie mode, must have felt really bad for the players. Sykunno just thought it was nerves effecting his reactions, but Eskay being an Overwatch player and likely highly sensitive to latency realised there was something wrong with the setup.
@@HolyRain89 Probably, that was just an example of the difference game mode makes. It was probably a worse TV that twitch staff rolled out for them to use. I think peak human reaction is something like 16 frames? So this would have made anything with under 21 frame startup impossible to react to. Assuming it was staff half-assing it, 6-8 frames would be my guess before Esfand turned on game mode and likely saved the rest of the tournament.
thats because it was fixed after. also thats not really something you can adapt to quickly, all your muscle memory and timings are wrong because of the lag.
They're the only team complaining about it because they're the only team to fall victim to it, it was 'fixed' after the first two and half matches but by that point the damage was already done. You are not reacting to modern blanka shenanigans in a second of delay.
I found it wild that there were Esports setups in the back, but the matches were played on a living room TV and Ikea chairs. FGC never gets any respect. lmao
such a fumble. for no reason
@@LKommo Such a Twitch Rival to go. They have been a disaster for a while.
Man I was so confused. They showed off the nice stations for each team and each seat had all of their names on it and arranged in a cool way and I thought this was gonna be sick........and then they all walk over to a tiny living room setup to actually play. Like, why??
@@branmuffin42 I came in right before grand finals, since I didn't realize it was the day of the Slam, and was so confused why they were playing in front of those setups. I thought maybe they played on them earlier and I just missed it, but nope…
@@CrowMercuryit’s twitch, why expect them to do anything right
I definitely thought something was up when watching it live since Sykkuno and Eskay were consistently dropping combos and not reacting to DI. Sucks they weren’t able to show off all their hard work.
I thought they were nervous at first.
@@Vars-I thought the same thing at first but found it odd since Sykkuno usually never gets nervous under pressure
Yeah that's the worst of it. Someone always has to lose, but not even being able to show what you practiced, win or lose, really fucking sucks. It's insane to host any kind of gaming tournament on a fucking giant ass TV lol.
A tournament getting sabotaged by a simple 4k TV from your local Walmart. The truest FGC experience.
Why the hell is this so hard for organizers to get right? The set ups are bad way too often.
@@VidyadudeIn this case, it’s because Twitchcon is just evil.
I’m sure that sounds like an exaggeration, but they literally fucked up a foam pit so bad a couple years ago that a girl who dove into it (AFTER THEY SAID IT WAS SAFE) ended up paralyzed, and they tried to deny even paying her medical bills.
Agreeing to host a fighting game event then ruining it for no reason is actually pretty light on the sliding scale of reasons Twitchcon is horrible.
Eskay got scammed by the airlines the day before and now the laggy set up smh
This is ragequit territory. Something like that killed regionals for me for about 8 years.
What happened with Eskay and the airlines?
From the moment I heard this Slam was ending in twitch con I knew something like this would happen. That event is the peak of half-assing everything.
Still don't understand why Sajam decided to finish the event in a place that fucks everything up
@@alondjecktoits kinda just a layup, since some creators will be there anyway I think
$$$ talks. @@alondjeckto
@@alondjeckto Because they're the ones paying for it and otherwise he bleeds money from organizing it.
Did someone not become disabled becuase they jumped in a half assed foam pit 😢😂
This is not the first time Sykkuno lost a tournament due to technical problems like that otk valo tournament with the bad ping. That ruined valo for him for a long time and this will probably ruin fighting games for him for a while too. We can all agree we rather lose to someone better than lose because of a bad controller glitch.
Yeah I still remember that. It ruined valo for him and Miyoung for a long time and he never wanted to touch that game again. I'm guessing with him having this love/hate for SF6 during the whole Sajam Slam grind, this is the icing on the cake for him to never touch SF6 again.
He won against Lily right after tho
so maybe not ruined for him
Although Syk is a chill person, he's very competitive and puts in a lot of hours into training, so losing because of technical issues is definitely disheartening and demotivating
@@VeeZzz123 Where can I see the stream?
Well, on to the next grift.
that's unfortunate, watching Sykkuno's match, i though he was panicking the entire time since he seems to be mashing button, which is very rare of him to do.
But with this cleared up, that makes sense.
Also playing with lag against a modern Blanka is pretty much almost impossible to win anyway.
Shoutout to Esfand. Good dude.
only thing the guy did all tournament.
@@RandomGuyCDN Imagine getting matched up with people double your LP. Everything was kind of rigged against him from the very start but he still didn't quit the tournament. Their whole team knows it but not one complained because they're good sports. So f*** you for disrespecting a great guy.
@@bukojoetheslapsoils8273lmao "good guy" defending some rando you watch on stream that doesn't know you.
@@bukojoetheslapsoils8273
He didn't train at all and treated it like a joke.
@@NephetssingsEsfand trained on his alt channel until his wrist was fucked because training on his main channel meant that he would ruin his CCV average while getting backseated by mouthbreathers like yourself.
Large TVs not on game mode are genuinely THE WORST way to play any game let alone a reactionary competitive one. Actually insane they didn’t think about it at all. FGC stays being disrespected for real
I wonder why not just let them play on a computer and let those screen grabbed/mirrored on another comp to mirror on the TV.
You know, like normal people in 2024.
Even on game mode it can be laggy sometimes.. questionable decision
@@konaqua122 they were probably too incompetent to set that up. or just flat out didn't care. could be both.
@@ethanfreeman1106 True. I can see both as a legit reason.
@@ethanfreeman1106They most likely don't care, it just fighting game for game
Just get a splitter for goodness sakes. One line goes to a smaller monitor for the players, the other line goes to a big screen for the audience. C'mon Twitch, that's rookie stuff.
Expecting Twitch to do anything decent nowadays is funny. They can't even get their site rules together, figures hosting anything.
That's not even rookie. That's like a level beyond that. Even boomers or people who lived in the 90s know how to do that. (Because that was how it was set up even back then)
This happens at gaming events as well, nobody even cares to check if game mode is activated on the TVs they use to show games
To put this into context for everyone, there is a 4 frame buffer window for inputs. There are moves that are 1 frame links and some that can be up to 15 frames. MAXIMUM amount of time for someone to cancel into a move is about 19 frames. When they say there's a 1 second delay on the monitor, know that frame data is based on 60 frames per second. So imagine trying to hit that AT MOST 15 frame window when there's 60 frames of lag. That's why that setup was absolute poopoocaca.
1 frame link in sf6 or sf4 are you sure about that????
@@Nostalgiaforinfi There’s a reason I mentioned the input buffer window. Unlike in SF4 where there were true 1 frame links in SF6 the 1 frame links have a 4 frame buffer window, making it longer. I get how me mentioning 1 frame links can be confusing in this context though.
@@SinkToTheBeat89 if there is 4 frame buffer window, than there is no 1 frame links.
@@SinkToTheBeat89Mentioning 1 frame links is irrelevant here because the game does not have 1 frame links. A 4 frame buffer window means that by definition there are at lowest 5 frame links
@@alondjeckto Actually a 1 frame link is where the following move in a combo has a startup equal to the advantage of the previous button's frame advantage. As frame data provided doesn't account for the leniency window, on paper it is still a 1 frame link. The window for hitting it however is actually 9 frames because its 4 frames before and 4 frames after. While it is extremely impressive that in an era before the input buffer people hit 1 frame links, that doesn't stop 1 frame links from existing within the data of the game system even if technically in action they are not needed to be executed frame perfectly. I hope this helps you to understand why I framed my information the way that I did, since as I stated previous I understand how it can be confusing in its context.
Damn. This Slam was both one of the best and worst.
The teams really felt like a team with how the couches were and the creators interacted with each other.
But Twitch’s and Capcom’s involvement definitely worsened it.
The need to have a price pool no longer made this a purely fun event (as heard from some players like Dokibird who said as they played and practiced more, there was more unconscious pressure).
And Twitch’s live matches and set up weren’t good either.
Even if the set ups were adequate, the need for in person match excludes the vtubers. Perhaps a closed doors event would have been better, but most would just prefer online.
Sucks cause this could have been the best slam with how much development occurred in the short time people had hands on the game
I 100% love that sajam is getting these sort of collabs, but twitch and capcom really showed themselves to be very disappointing companies. Hope he never works with them again. I think a slam at evo would be sick tho.
you guys have no idea what you're talking about but both of these comments are funny af to read
@@RazielReavercan I ask what about these comments are wrong? I agree not working with twitch or capcom anymore is a bit much but besides that they're spitting
All for excluding vtubers
I think the vtuber thing is more nuanced than them being excluded over an in-person finals. They chose to compete knowing the finals would be at Twitch Con, and were fine with having their role filled by people more comfortable with showing their faces. This goes even more for Victoria, who is likely contractually obligated not to reveal her face.
I'm not throwing shade at any content creator that hides their face or identity. It's just that in the world of content creation, choosing anonymity over these kinds of in-person events is still a choice.
Its pretty much impossible to react to Blanka and Luke's sand blasts with a full second of input lag. It's unfortunate that their match ups put them into a situation where the input lag was more disadvantageous to them than team JB.
All in all, I'm more frustrated that we couldn't see them play at their best since all 4 of them have improved a lot as players.
that's life an unfortunate events of unfairness, luck and lack of adequate services.
The delay followed Syk from mario party NotLikeThis
The de layyy
I love Syk's Dokibird cosplay
Before sykunnos match i thought he should win. And I said eskay should be fine. But when they played... how do i explain it... it felt like they were playing very auto piloty and couldn't react. At first I thought it could be nerves. But now that I'm hearing what happened I'm thinking "OH duh, they were playing like hey had lag issues. Why didn't I put it together?"
They should've just kept the entire thing online. Brian had to clutch an insane set just to keep his team in the bracket and all the momentum was lost cause they had to wait for TwitchCon
If it was online the prize pool wouldnt have been as big as it was since capcom and twitch approached him about it. so it was either this or online and a garbo prize pool. They just need to do better at checking this shit at talent rehearsals
@@RandomGuyCDN a lot of participants were vtubers and couldn't even participate in the finals as a result though.
@@RandomGuyCDN The last two slams had okay prize pools but were plenty good. Many people loved being in it and was more than happy to play for fun and a controller (and an evo trip) than 50k
@@RandomGuyCDNThere shouldn't have even been a prize pool at all. It puts a lot of stress on something that should just be a for fun event for streamers to connect and grow their audience. I know Doki joined before they said there was a prize pool, and after it was announced she enjoyed it a lot less than the tekken slam.
Not putting the TV on game mode? Rookie twitchcon moment.
Probably a shitty ass tcl ass well
Never want another sajam slam at twitchcon or any non-FGC event again, embarrassing. Feel absolutely terrible for Eskay
sajam slam was way better online
I understand Twitch staff not knowing how to setup FGC but this is Sajam's event and he/his team not double checking the stage setups beforehand is kinda crazy....😒
@@zm6rnachrnauI think this is the first time their tournament does the TV setup.
All the previous ones including toast's chipotle Tekken tour uses PC monitor setup even on Lan/local.
It's an oversight, which is mostly understandable.
Plus the first match are with players who probably aren't aware the TV delay frame is huge for fighting game.
@@HolyRain89 It's not on the players to know if their setup is not correct LMAO what?? The players are participants. They come in expecting it's already setup correctly. Yall wouldn't be saying the same thing if Riot fuked up a VCT finals match with their PCs and say that's on the player for not knowing like ??🙃😂
This is Sajam's event. He holds an equal responsibility, next to Twitch, for not double checking the equipment on a tournament. There also wasn't any re-matches after knowing that there was a technical difficulty on the stage setups which should've automatically nulled and void the first two matches of Sykkuno and Eskay's.
Literally the entire finals matchup and event winner could've been different, if it weren't for that "oversight" so how can you say it's understandable ?
The only reason the prize pool was as big as it was, was because twitch and capcom put money into it to be played at twitch con. Sajam himself even said he didnt plan on doing another one until those 2 companies approached him about it. Im surprised Sajam and the rehearsal crew didnt test the set up out when they were doing rehearsals on thursday or friday.
Damn, that really sucks 😞
Anytime a tournmanet for fighting game is not hosted by the FGC, I can't trust it.
true
This was absolutely heartbreaking and kind of tainted the entire tournament as a result.
Its a fucked up situation, because both sykkuno AND Eskay were kicking ass OFF camera on monitors. Sykkuno was easily winning off lily during practice matches and Eskay beat ultima in their runback like 9-1.
Should’ve played again. If they didn’t get to play the game it’s not putting up a stink. It’s giving them to chance to do what they practiced for.
It's unfortunate that the ones setting up weren't knowledgeable enough to set up a fighting game setup.
Thank goodness Esfand stepped up to fix the lag problem.
Twitch barely understands fighting games and doesn’t take it seriously which is probably why they did this
This is just basic tech knowledge.
Make sure the display can run at a certain HZ you want and is setup to do so.
And ensure the video/audio cable supports the desired FPS and resolution.
@@blunderswish7121no.. neither the of the tv hz nor cables were the problem lol. Giant TVs just have a ton of processing lag unless they are made specifically for low input lag, which is expensive and not common when compared to a benq with sub 10ms input lag.
@@midwestmeta8802 yes but it was way more manageable on the player side when Esfand changed it to gaming mode. Thus proving the tech issue problem.
@@midwestmeta8802 You can get faster response TVs that size, they just went cheap. That 60" TV was probably the same price as a 32" IPS 1ms delay monitor (which they should have just used and split the hdmi feed to the larger TV for spectators)
Yeah Team Brian_F got robbed. I feel if it weren’t for those two matches, they would’ve genuinely had a good chance at winning the whole thing.
After the match, eskay had a salt run back against ultima and she beat him 7-1. 100% robbed
Pretty wild to think twitchcon setups are not tested prior to matches starting. That's understandable at some first time small local, but not at the largest streaming platform's event.
It's a real shame. The whole training arc with Brian was great, despite being one of the more technical players who loves the nitty and gritty of these games, he's great not only at meeting newcomers where they are, but also helping them grow at their own pace. I was looking forward to see the team's hard work, such a bummer of an ending... I hope they get another chance eventually.
The entire event was promoted by Capcom and the finals was essentially completely illegitimate.
Sajam needs to be held accountable for this.
I was surprised and thought Sykkuno was defending the opponent's team. I searched and saw that Sykkuno was subbing in for Doki. From being giefd to being a sub by the gief, that's something I never expected.
So basically, twitchcon NOT KNOWING proper setups for esports/fighting games TV and stuff is what Im getting?
This, though i feel that Sajam should have at least provided them with this knowledge.
FGC is used to running events on 60hz monitors, but recently with sf6 and ps5, the frequency can go as high as 144 Hz
It’s not that they don’t know, it’s that they don’t care. They got publicity and money, that’s all they care about. Twitchcon specifically has a history of doing really obviously stupid things with callous disregard for the consequences, just because it seems convenient in the short term.
its so strange seeing brian and syk together, watched both of them for a while just never thought id see the day they met
Man that's really unfortunate :(
There were multiple points in which this could be prevented. From the venue level, to the TO level, to the player level. It just so happens to be at twitch con, a non fgc venue, with Sajam, who normally doesn't TO, with first match being Sykunno and Eskay, both who never attended a local. So it's just an unfortunate event.
But this is a good lesson for Sajam and should be corrected for next event. In person event should be the way to go, as that's how fighting games tournaments should be held.
True. The lesson is: "Never trust ANY twitch staff for technical stuff"
Nah, I'd say 80% of my enjoyment of the slams came from watching the different teams' pov's and their inside jokes/mid game coaching/chemistry/seeing people improve. I'd much rather watch the finals online where all the competitors can attend, and there aren't any random variables like a TV being set up wrong cause apparently no one decided to check up on it beforehand.
@@reknemite Online connection is a bigger variable than someone forgetting to test a set up. These events are so much better in person. They just need a checklist and should add a full streaming set up for each team there if content creator based.
Really excited to see sykk play too, just to see him miss these reaction timed things that throughout a bunch of his SF games has improved to react to
How did anyone not bring up GAME mode at the start is baffling.
Dude they got robbed straight up
How does shit like this still happen in 2024? Do people that organize gaming events literally how no clue about how monitors work? If so then why are they in charge of organising a gaming event? Literally no professional game is played on a huge TV, maybe you would consider that there's a reason for that. Very disappointing. I am also surprised that no one spoke up... if i was in the vicinity of that going down i would say something... "Hey guys.... you know that playing on a monitor with a second of input delay is not a very good idea for a game where reaction speed is a factor".
This should fall largely on Sajam's hands.
If i knew my players were not playing on OPTIMAL conditions, I would have pulled out.
This is a disgrace
@@henryludvor6275 when they were practicing they got to play on proper setups so it would only make sense for him to assume that theyd get to play on setups like that IF they didnt inform him about the whole tv setup (and considering what brian_f said it does seem like he didnt get informed in the slightest) so i dont see how its his fault
@@lolpop7799 He's the event organizer, of course it's his fault. What event lead doesn't know which setup is going to be played at the finals? This is not something you find out last minute. This is simple due diligence. When $50k is on the line, you best not "assume" anything.
That sucks a lot. I noticed that Sykkuno wasn’t reacting as fast as he usually did in the other fight.
This is disappointing to hear such a shame it turned out terribly. I'd be upset if i watched it live
I feel bad for sajam he succeeded into twitch fucking his finals up
Why? This fuck up is majorly on him.
If twitch were to present me with a setup like this to play MY finals on, I would be protesting LOUD AND HARD.
This setup is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE for any competitive tournament standard and is disrespectful to the players involved.
@@henryludvor6275 According to brian sajam thought the setups would be like the ones on the back
@@Jp63a Still unacceptable.
Not knowing which setup the finals are going to be played is straight up negligence. Once you found out that it was on the bad TV, then I would have done everything in my power to rectify this. Should twitch still refuse and want to run things their way, at the very least I'd be informing players that they'll be playing in sub-optimal conditions. The fact that players found out mid-tournament and settings had to be changed is a disgrace. Even after, I would have stopped the tournament and demanded the setup be switched to something the players are used to, but still this wasnt done.
This is just a series of bad choices that snowballed into a poor experience for literally everyone.
Man Sajam really dropped the ball on that one.If Esfan didn't step up can you imagine the rest of the matches, not to mention it shouldn't be played on a TV to begin with
Most likely out of Sajam’s control. That’s definitely on twitch for half-assing shit like usual.
This is 1000% unacceptable on twitch's part. I KNOW Sajam would have never let this happen if he had any say.
"I KNOW Sajam would have never let this happen if he had any say."
What do you mean if? You do know what the event is called right?
$5 says Sajam didn't want to take a loss twice so he made concessions by allowing things he shouldn't have to keep the twitch cash flowing.
He had his own sajam slam beat a pro event at evo and it was fine. Because the entire event was held by the people of the FGC and not Twitch.
@@tfk2328 How is this any different. He is responsible for the upkeep of the tournament and should have had the stream setup tested and made sure it adhered with FGC tournament standards. This event even had his name plastered all over and even CAPCOM THEMSELVES have promoted it.
This has left an incredibly sour taste in my mouth. Sajam dropped the ball HARD and needs to be held accountable for these mistakes. Personally I never want to see him host an event in this scale ever again.
@@henryludvor6275 Too bad for you He'll still keep doing these because people still enjoy them overall. He should've verified and not let non fgc people set up the venues yeah big mistake on him too. But quit overreacting like he couldn't adjust for the next one. The first two tekken slams were great, the beat a pro event was great, and the online part of the sf6 was great.
I'm sour too because I'm rooting for this team, brawlpro and brianF. They shouldn't have went twitchcon halfway through the finals or even at all.
Actually robbed
Haha TwitchCon is amateur hour, huh?
tech guy was like I let them play on this 60 inch tv directly and there would be no lag 🤣
Game streaming platform has no idea how to set up games to be played. I figured when twitch was put in the charge of the finals, they'd fuck something up. Its in their nature
Doesn't matter if twitch is in charge, SAJAM should be the one fighting for optimal setups.
As someone who has advocated for rollback netcode in the past, I'm shocked, appalled, and incredibly disappointed that he was unable to ensure that the players played under the standards of the FGC.
I expect much more from one of the "Community Leaders" and would strongly caution against him hosing another one.
@@henryludvor6275 You don't have to be so dramatic to what could be rectified with a checklist, but I agree this was his responsibility. Growing pains are like that though, if he did this again and didn't learn from his mistake then I'll be right there with you.
"Game streaming platform has no idea how to set up games to be played."
No. Tournament organizer whose name is part of the event title either:
A) Never checks the main setup for months from the time of event planning/booking to the day of the event.
B) Knows but lets it slide the whole time thinking it wouldn't be as bad as it was and therefore failing to do due diligence on his own event.
You pick because there is no C and both options are still his event, his fault.
There were esport setups available. The TV was a decision he ultimately knew about one way or another well before the day of the event. To suggest anything else is basically insinuating that Sajam sold his name to twitch and has nothing to do with the event. Which if true would make him an actual corporate sellout and be absolutely hilarious.
@@Heowolf Absolutely not. Sajam is a pillar of the FGC and as such I would expect him to know and adhere to the standards of other tournaments.
Personally, I think anything less than a 144Hz lag free monitor is unacceptable and is completely disrespectful to all the players involved. Is it because they're not pros and cannot decipher the difference? You can't tell me he won't have the budget for either its fucking TwitchCon!
If this were some random event run by some newbie TO affiliated with twitch, then I could give some leeway here, but this is SAJAM we are talking about here. He is the last person I'd expect to fuck up so royally here and as such has completely lost my trust in running an event like this again.
Oh this sucks, shame Eskay didn't complain immediately during the fight :c
Technically this affects both players, but on Modern with autocombos they're not liable to drop combos
I think twitch's involvement in pulling the event as a twitch con thing had a lot to do with what was bad about this finals. There was some mindless moments on production too. I was surprised during one said moment the chat didn't go full scum of the earth mode. Rare twitch chat respect. Still I think production should have noticed and swapped cameras during that moment instead of letting it linger for like over a minute. Just seems so unfortunate compared to the energy and fun that was the Tekken slams.
Big events like Twitchcon should have an FGC consultant.
Why should this one need one they have SAJAM.
Well now we know why, it's because he's proven he's incompetent and incapable of running a tournament.
@@henryludvor6275You sure love replying to every comment on here don't you? Lol
Esports. This has been a decade long issue for fighting games. At least they get paid but this is just super annoying going to events you fly out to just to eat the laggy setup combo and then if you complain then you get roasted online.
Just sucks.
Laggy setups are the #1 cause for divorce in the world.
Wouldn’t be surprised that if this offer comes up again, either Sajam and the TO’s double check equipment specifications, or they never do this again at all. TwitchCon dropped the ball hard on this event.
Were any other games played on that TV? Or did they only use it for fighting games? Literally the genre most sensitive to frame specific inputs.
A full second of delay is absurd.
Anyone would do piss poor with that.
At least a ball pit wasn't involved this time.
I don't know what tv yall playing on but mine is perfect for fighting games lol.
NOBODY EVEN PLAYS PLATFORMERS WITH A FULL SECOND OF DELAY
I thought the whole "substituting flesh-tubers for vtubers" thing was because playing online would have too much lag. Hmm....
I'd be annoyed if the Hz on the monitors is anything less than 144.
The fact that they played on a 60 inch giant TV not on game mode would make me livid. I'd have paused the match at the first second.
Truly the only one to come away on top was Doki. Completely AVOIDED the whack ass technical mixup.
Was Sajam the TO of this? If so, I find it extremely surprising he’d allow something like this to happen. He’s been apart of the FGC for a very long time and he has a great work ethic and is a great dude. So I wonder how this happened… 🤔
Which is why if this happens again, I would like Sajam to not be the host.
@@henryludvor6275 Wait why? If he WAS responsible for this, you think he’d make the same mistake again? That’s kinda the opposite of how that works
I play on a low latency , 360hz monitor, id say 99% of the time.. i have a 60+" TV that has a "low latency" mode that I have to put it in, but i never notice a difference. Now, I have played on TVs in hotel rooms that have been real bad. Im assuming this was a latency issue?
just bc you don't notice the difference doesn't mean there isn't one lol
@@yano4473 Thanks there, Captain Obvious. Simply stating that I've used all the extremes and if you have a low latency tv/monitor, the nuance is not going to make or break someone's ability to stop gimmicks (as discussed in this video). On the flip side, a TV with your typical latency will be a noticeable difference.
In short, you can't just look at a TV and assume that the hardware is going to make it unplayable. There are plenty of low latency big ass tvs with high refresh rates.
They didn’t even test the set up (twitch staff) idk, that puts a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to twitch’s ability to make conventions
60f of lag?!?!?!?!?!
As someone who doesn't know. I get the lag issue ofc, but whats the big feal about a 60 inch tv. Isnt that big? Isnt that good? Or nah
To make this make slightly more sense:
~16ms = 1 frame @ 60 fps
~960ms = 1 second @ 60 fps
Avg human reaction time = ~200ms (usually better if you're a competitor but it's variable)
They went cheap on the TV I'm assuming. Bigger TVs will take longer to present an image on average though. The TV they used is probably anywhere between 8x and 40x (8-40ms delay) slower to present an image than those monitors in GAMING mode, the first two sets being in MOVIE mode makes the delay up to 5x(40-200ms delay) that due to the TV processing the image more for quality than speed. Competitors want the fastest time available, they were surrounded with competitive monitors that are all probably 1ms delay (this is the standard for competitive) which makes this even more frustrating.
Ideally you want 144hz, IPS and 1ms delay
@@Heowolf thank you for the info. Do you know if a game setting fixes this issue. I use a 65 inch TV to game but I have a gaming setting
@@cjwerner2747 Gaming mode definitely helps, but I can't definitively tell you if it will fully fix your latency. Look up your TVs technical info via it's model # (usually on the back) if you want specifics. Look for "response time/rate" or "delay" - they are the same thing just diff companies might switch it up. Most likely it will show the fastest the TV can offer there, which would be in gaming mode.
@@Heowolf thank you!!!!!!!
If only someone could sue. Thats negligence for the event. Someome def should get fired and thats just business not personal.
Not gonna lie, I could see this happening.
The players played for a $50k pot and at least two of the matches were under unplayable conditions. Heck, I would say the entire tournament was suboptimal since it was not run on a 144Hz lag free monitor. Completely unacceptable.
frankly it sounds like the whole con is a bit of a trainwreck.
Button checks doko
its tough having lag against modern, cause classic is already hard enough to input, and with lag? bruh
Yeah this kills all my hype for all of this. If nobody else cares about these games why should I care about these games?
A low input lag display is literally the ONLY accommodation that a fighting game tournament would need, but twitch and capcom said “nah I’d ruin the event”
I love the irony of Brian having the generally better players and LOSING as a result of that.
It's insane how high level players struggle more from technical problems
nah but if Doki was there she woulda crushed it on the laggy tv
bad for the organization more in the tech part and less on the marketing bs , you have to give the 0 ms delay hardware shit and let then know before the tourney
modern tvs have decent response time. this is just a nasty negligence by twitch rivals
Modern TVs are unacceptable by FGC standards. Anything less than a 144Hz monitor would be unacceptable given the size and budget of the event. This is entirely on Sajam.
@@henryludvor6275 most modern fighting games still run on 60 fps, regardless the only relevant metric is the response time. The likelihood of sajam, a long time FGC member made that decision is low.
@@sean2sheen My issue isn't that Sajam made the decision to have them play on the bad TV. It's the fact that the decision to play on that happened under Sajam's watch in the first place.
He's a pillar of the FGC, make no mistake. He knows that games like SF6 need to be played under the least latency as possible, but he completely failed in ensuring that it was the case. As a player and community figure, the things he has done is great, but blunders like this is exactly why i no longer have confidence in him as an event organizer. That's all.
@@henryludvor6275you do realize it was most likely entirely out of his control?
@@primedember5249 If you a large scale event of any kind for large amounts of money and things get "out of control" then, for the most part, you are just a bad event organizer.
This isn't even a case where solutions weren't nearby as they were LITERALLY playing on setups that were fine before the actual tournament.
Who's idea was it to play on a big TV with terrible delay?? It makes quite a difference playing on low input lag to a FULL SECOND of input lag. It's basically unplayable at that point if you're use to low input lag. Shame.
Who's idea is kind of irrelevant, the real factor is SAJAM allowing them to play on such an unoptimal setup.
You'd think a pillar of the community would have had everything tested, their I's dotted and T's crossed. But this is clearly not the case.
He has lost my trust, and I would caution the next event should be run under more competent leadership.
Pc outputting on a 60inch tv for a fighting game is deranged
They should money match team JB
Not playing on proper setups aka monitors with no lag is impossible to play properly. All they had to do was project it to the big screen. Very disappointing to hear this as a FG player.
I’m not blaming Sajam but like…this is HIS event. Why did he not coordinate with people who set up the equipment?
Pretty sure he books a timeslot way in advance and coordinates the bracket and event, but Twitch-con staff is in charge of the setups. That said if the setups that flanked the stage just didn't have SF6 or the set-up wasn't designed for 3rd party spectators, that is partly Sajam's fault if that was overlooked. If they couldn't have them installed or w/e the reason, than that's just unfortunate but not on Sajam specifically
@@adambeck427 The PC set ups had SF6. if you turned into a few of the players streams while the TC finals were going on they were either keeping warm or labbing things out on those setups
@@adambeck427yeah, not totally his fault. You just can’t micro manage like that in events like this and that’s a risk if you take these bigger deals.
I honestly hope/think that Sajam will take some lessons from this and won’t try to split Slams like this in the future. Even if it means less prize support. And hopefully collaborates more with events that have more experience running fighting games.
@@hunterdavis9941 I don't think that needs to be the take away here. There's 3 things that should be the main takeaway:
Don't use TVs.
Test your set up.
Test your controllers.
There were multiple points in which this could be prevented. From the venue level, to the TO level, to the player level. It just so happens to be at twitch con, a non fgc venue, with Sajam, who normally doesn't TO, with first match being Sykunno and Eskay, both who never attended a local
twitch and capcom probably handled it and sajam probably didn't get much of a say. he's not exactly huge enough to make them alter their set up or schedule or whatever for something as big as twitch con.
fgc tournament hosters really need to stop making players play on a literal nether portal display with 300 frames of delay
at least there are not playing in the washroom
Bunch of crap, man. I was so hyped for this and then immediately lost all interest when this happened.
Still better than Smash online.
there's a situation ??
The setup was laggy because of the TVs settings.
I have somewhat limited understanding on it, but TVs and monitors have input delay, the time between when you press a button and it happening on screen. PC monitors tend to have the lowest input delay, which is why you often see tournaments being played on monitors.
I don't know what TV they were using, but here's an example.
New Samsung 55" TV @ 1080p has 10.1ms input delay IN game mode, OUT of game mode, it's 83.8ms
1 frame at 60fps I think is approx 16ms, so an extra 73.8ms is 4 frames additional of input delay. And that's assuming they don't have it passing through anything else before the TV, which would probably add even more.
EVO this year I think was played on Sony Inzone monitors with 4.6ms of input delay.
It seems like a tiny difference, but those extra 4 frames can make it extremely difficult to react to things in both offence and defence. You land that standing medium? Normally you can confirm into another hit, but with those extra 4-5 frames that window closes early.
So for the 1st 2 matches to be played in movie mode, must have felt really bad for the players. Sykunno just thought it was nerves effecting his reactions, but Eskay being an Overwatch player and likely highly sensitive to latency realised there was something wrong with the setup.
bigger TVs naturally have higher delay. a large 60in is always gonna be laggy. but on top of that they had it in a terrible mode.
@@Chainshada1it's definitely not 4 frame, probably 5 or more.
Because it's on movie mode which is way worst.
@@HolyRain89 Probably, that was just an example of the difference game mode makes. It was probably a worse TV that twitch staff rolled out for them to use. I think peak human reaction is something like 16 frames? So this would have made anything with under 21 frame startup impossible to react to.
Assuming it was staff half-assing it, 6-8 frames would be my guess before Esfand turned on game mode and likely saved the rest of the tournament.
what a blow up. shit was lame
Technical difficulties at an offline fighting game tournament? That's just the accurate FGC experience lol
Cheatboxers losing, love to see it.
only your team complaining about it, adapt and overcome if youre the better players
thats because it was fixed after. also thats not really something you can adapt to quickly, all your muscle memory and timings are wrong because of the lag.
They're the only team complaining about it because they're the only team to fall victim to it, it was 'fixed' after the first two and half matches but by that point the damage was already done. You are not reacting to modern blanka shenanigans in a second of delay.
**Disconnects your controller**
Adapt to that lmao
u came into this video ready to say this lol
The one who discovered the issue was on the other team?!
twitch dont care. they still makin their money